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Denidil
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2009.06.13 22:27:00 -
[1]
So we all have experienced gate camping smacktards that don't go anywhere without a cloaking device. There is no way to counter a cloaker who can move.
My corpies and I were discussing earlier that there should be some module that can punch through cloak. Obviously it would need balanced - high CPU usage, skill requirements, ship can move while using it, who knows.. something to balance.
That way if you have a bunch of cowardly cloaking smacktards in your space you can actually hunt them down.
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Commander Yassir
Big Black Hole
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Posted - 2009.06.13 22:50:00 -
[2]
Your right!! Lets make the already useless blackops thats only advantage is getting in sneakily and escorting in SB's through the jump portal even more pointless through an anti-cloak mod!! This is more of a blatant make me actually want a black ops rather then constructive post, however....I think its fine. |
Mu'n Hurricane
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.06.13 23:00:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Mu''n Hurricane on 13/06/2009 23:02:40 Boring a little, so lets perephrase it.. [Hey, we got owned by a group of SBs and cloaking (penalized as well) boats - these cowards dared to use some aspects of Eve! Also, we are not going to use any de-cloaking mechanics avaliable, and to use directional-scanner - that's sooo not for us! To the forums!!!]
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.06.13 23:26:00 -
[4]
Any type of anti-cloaking device would instantly become standard equipment at gate camps. 0.0 bubble camps would become completely impenetrable. Bubble camps don't need a boost. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
Denidil
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2009.06.14 00:06:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Mu'n Hurricane Edited by: Mu''n Hurricane on 13/06/2009 23:02:40 Boring a little, so lets perephrase it.. [Hey, we got owned by a group of SBs and cloaking (penalized as well) boats - these cowards dared to use some aspects of Eve! Also, we are not going to use any de-cloaking mechanics avaliable, and to use directional-scanner - that's sooo not for us! To the forums!!!]
actually they didn't shot down a single member of our camp. but sitting around waiting for cloaking cowards for an hour is kinda boring.
and as some other idiots replying to this thread have already indicated.. nobody seems to be able to wrap their heads around a discussion about the merits of this module and HOW TO BALANCE IT TO NOT RENDER CLOAKING UTTERLY USELESS.
However as it is cloaking is over powered. |
Denidil
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2009.06.14 00:08:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Any type of anti-cloaking device would instantly become standard equipment at gate camps. 0.0 bubble camps would become completely impenetrable. Bubble camps don't need a boost.
which is why it would have to be somehow balanced. ie only have a chance to break, be cone only, cost a lot of CPU and PG, only be equipable on certain ships. something to balance it
as it is right now cloaking is over powered.. you can sit there in 0.0 and be perfectly safe for hours cloaked - that's BS. that eliminates the risk of raiding enemy territory - you can sit there and snipe only haulers, etc and the defense force has NO way to force an engagement. |
Lightningshade
Caldari The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.06.14 00:44:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: Mu'n Hurricane Edited by: Mu''n Hurricane on 13/06/2009 23:02:40 Boring a little, so lets perephrase it.. [Hey, we got owned by a group of SBs and cloaking (penalized as well) boats - these cowards dared to use some aspects of Eve! Also, we are not going to use any de-cloaking mechanics avaliable, and to use directional-scanner - that's sooo not for us! To the forums!!!]
actually they didn't shot down a single member of our camp. but sitting around waiting for cloaking cowards for an hour is kinda boring.
and as some other idiots replying to this thread have already indicated.. nobody seems to be able to wrap their heads around a discussion about the merits of this module and HOW TO BALANCE IT TO NOT RENDER CLOAKING UTTERLY USELESS.
However as it is cloaking is over powered.
or you could something better than camp, tard.
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Denidil
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2009.06.14 00:55:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Lightningshade
or you could something better than camp, tard.
it was a counter-camp dimwit.
IE the cloaking smacktards were camping that gate popping people as they came through, so we came and sat on gate to get them to stop.. and they didn't have the balls to engage us
is everyone on these forums are @#$%^ing moronic as most of the people who replied so far?
either discuss what i posted about (ideas for a BALANCED module to be able to combat cloak) or just simply shut up.
Wow people are freaking ******ed.
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Commander Yassir
Big Black Hole
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Posted - 2009.06.14 01:21:00 -
[9]
It seems like you have a particular issue with some mechanics in the game and want something to fix them. This should go in the ideas and suggestions forum but w/e. Now, obviously it would need to be balanced, do you have any specific ideas on how, you listed a bunch but did you take into account how effective they would be?
I see it being OP and cloaking becoming useless, or, it does jack all and no one uses it. Now, I say this because of CCP's approach to things with a sledgehammer like manner. So lets take you ideas one at a time.
1.High CPU or PG usage, ok, well then you would just have one ship in the camp sitting on gate dedicated to its counter cloak job.
2.Certain ships-Well then those ships would become a requirement in camps and it would be like above.
3.A cone-I admit, this one is the most promising. I see it perhaps being fielded on a number of ships and they just point different ways on the camp and sit still and still get everything, however, that requires coordination and tactics, so it might work. But you know CCP would screw up cone radius and it would be either like 180 degrees or something and you can check everywhere in 2-3 swipes. Or, it will be like a 10 degree cone and it will do nothing and be a waste of a slot.
4.Chance based-Well if I have two ships with said module and a 50/50 chance I am gonna have a pretty good catch record, especially if I happen to have say 5 ships with this module and a 50/50 chance.
Your ideas are interesting, however it seems like you came here and raged before thinking your post through, anymore balance ideas?
P.S. Insults get you no where. ~ The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. |
Denidil
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2009.06.14 01:44:00 -
[10]
I think the following things might be a good idea to start from 1) Module only can be mounted on Recon/Force Recon 2) Module requires good skills to be effective - 5% chance to decloak a ship in it's area of effect per level of the skill to operate the module (max being 25% chance) 3) Module's effective area is a 60 degree forward cone, 30km base range
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Forge Trader
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Posted - 2009.06.14 06:50:00 -
[11]
Ending the ability to cloak (any module or ship that could decloak would instantly be universally used) would be a huge mistake for anyone who wants to make a living as a pirate.
Here is a huge secret: carebears, which is most players, will go nowhere in Eve they do not believe they can protect their ships using skills and attention. They just will not go. That is why most of nullsec, and large parts of losec are completely empty.
Better to have many hard to catch targets, than no targets at all, yes?
To call someone a "cloak coward" because they do not want to fight your pvp fitted domi with their pve fitted Drake or their hauler is pretty hypocritical. Most pirates follow the first rule of piracy: "Never fight a fair fight".
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Zeimanov Kalzumaan
Caldari Haruspex Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.14 07:17:00 -
[12]
Blackops are designed to do exactly what you complained about - sneak into systems and attack vunerable industrial assets. What you propose would effectively end the function of these ships. You are right that a cloak allows you to sit AFK for ages - exactly what is wrong with that? You already pay a price for having a cloak with sig radius and giving up a high slot.
There are plenty of ways to deal with cloaked camps if you are clever - send through a heavy tanked transport ship and have it lock the targets so they don't cloak. You can then warp/jump in yourselves and shoot - it just requires a bit of though |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.14 11:06:00 -
[13]
- Would their smack hurt less if you knew that they were sitting more than 30km from you? (your decloak range)? - Would their smack hurt less if it came from a station (them docking up)? - Would their smack hurt less if they holed up at a POS?
The camping smacktards would simply adapt, and those who use cloaks for other purposes would suffer.
What would you do if the smacktards suddenly warped in a fleet 5 times your own size? Would you stay and fight a hopeless fight, or run and smack them for bringing the blob. In my experience, 95% of pilots do the last thing. Getting irritated of people you were not able to catch and are smacking you is no reason to change game mechanics. Next time just make a better plan for catching them. Like bringing inferior forces.
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Lord DevilHanzo
Gallente The Crane Technique
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Posted - 2009.06.14 11:55:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Denidil
That way if you have a bunch of cowardly cloaking smacktards in your space you can actually hunt them down.
Why not try something like laying a trap ? Give them something they can't resist uncloaking for, that tends to work ok. Certainly better than sitting on a gate while they watch you, looking for them, watching you....
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Denidil
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2009.06.14 12:24:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Forge Trader
To call someone a "cloak coward" because they do not want to fight your pvp fitted domi with their pve fitted Drake or their hauler is pretty hypocritical. Most pirates follow the first rule of piracy: "Never fight a fair fight".
*sigh*
what is it with people on these forums and making wild assumptions. I'm talking about PVP fit opponents who sit around all day and pop carebears, but soon as other PVP people show up they run away. |
Denidil
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2009.06.14 12:26:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lord DevilHanzo
Originally by: Denidil
That way if you have a bunch of cowardly cloaking smacktards in your space you can actually hunt them down.
Why not try something like laying a trap ? Give them something they can't resist uncloaking for, that tends to work ok. Certainly better than sitting on a gate while they watch you, looking for them, watching you....
they're pretty good about not taking bait unfortunately.
and why does almost everyone act like there is only "Cloaking is OP" vs "Cloaking is useless".. can they not fathom a balanced counter to cloaking? that doesn't render it useless but takes away some of the overpoweredness? |
Mu'n Hurricane
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.06.14 13:03:00 -
[17]
The op's point is still almost the same, kinda: I don't want to use \ to learn how to use \ failed to use \ avaliable game mechanics (scanner, probber, de-cloaking) to counter cloaking ships. CCP fix it ~whine~.
Wow that way ->
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Commander Yassir
Big Black Hole
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Posted - 2009.06.14 13:48:00 -
[18]
What do you mean "cloaking is way OP"? Have you actually read what it does to your ship bonus wise? Not to mention killing a high slot. Also, how do you know they were right there watching you? Whats to keep them from just warping to a safe and laughing at you? Anyway onto how your ideas to balance it would go"
Only on certain ships-Then those ships would become mandatory at any camp and cloaking would become useless.
A 90 degree cone-While I assume you don't mean having your ship point a certain way because that is not in the coding atm, so it would have to be the direction your screen is facing. I don't know about you but using the 90 degree field on the directional scanner in under 5 seconds I can't take a snapshot of everywhere.
Chance based-You said 25% chance, obviously this could be fiddled with but w/e. I assume it goes higher with skills maybe to 40-50%? 5% each level of said skills or something? Then you would just have 3 ships with their 50/50 decloak chance and almost every time anyone, even with a cloak, would get caught in your bubble trap/camp. ~ The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. |
Commander Yassir
Big Black Hole
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Posted - 2009.06.14 13:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: Lord DevilHanzo
Originally by: Denidil
That way if you have a bunch of cowardly cloaking smacktards in your space you can actually hunt them down.
Why not try something like laying a trap ? Give them something they can't resist uncloaking for, that tends to work ok. Certainly better than sitting on a gate while they watch you, looking for them, watching you....
they're pretty good about not taking bait unfortunately.
and why does almost everyone act like there is only "Cloaking is OP" vs "Cloaking is useless".. can they not fathom a balanced counter to cloaking? that doesn't render it useless but takes away some of the overpoweredness?
You have seen how CCP "fixes" things? What do you think would happen? ~ The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. |
Denidil
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2009.06.14 14:34:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Denidil on 14/06/2009 14:35:21
Originally by: Mu'n Hurricane Edited by: Mu''n Hurricane on 14/06/2009 13:14:59 The op's point is still almost the same, kinda: I don't want to use \ to learn how to use \ failed to use \ avaliable game mechanics (scanner, probber, de-cloaking) to counter cloaking ships. CCP fix it ~whine~.
Wow that way ->
{edit} Denidil, you'd better start a topic called "How You counter cloaking ops in your space? Ideas and speculations." or some sort of that line.. That would fit into "Warfare & Tactics" perfectly ;)
1) Scanning and Probing doesn't reveal CLOAKED ships 2) Attempting to ram a cloaked ship to decloak them only works on ships that cannot move while cloaked, and only if you get a fix one them 3) we knew there were there because they'd occasionally decloak to lob a bomb at us 4) Why do morons like you always assume that someone is inept if they propose a new game mechanic to enhance PVP? Is it because you think yourself some sort of PVP gawd when you're just probably some dip**** who sits in highsec all day?
unless you have something constructive to add to threads on this forum you REALLY need to STFU |
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Denidil
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2009.06.14 14:43:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Commander Yassir What do you mean "cloaking is way OP"? Have you actually read what it does to your ship bonus wise? Not to mention killing a high slot.
1) OP = Over powered = able to hide from people all day long without any risk 2) Yes I've seen what it does to ships fittings 3) My problem is the fact it's being abused by all and sundry to hide from the consequences of their actions without any risk
I guess my problem is the fact that there is no counter to cloaking. I believe PvP should be balanced, for every tactic their should be an effective counter tactic available.
And you're right it "would become mandatory in every gate camp" that is why you balance the abilities of the decloaking module. IE it's not a "I WIN! you're decloaked" instantly module. It has a cycle time.. say 15 seconds, with good skills it has a 1/4 chance of decloaking it's target, etc. balance it.
As it is right now it cloaking is not a balanced mechanic |
Mu'n Hurricane
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.06.14 15:17:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Mu''n Hurricane on 14/06/2009 15:21:30
Originally by: Denidil
I guess my problem is the fact that there is no counter to cloaking...
Someone might guess the problem is way more deeper, and the roots of such a problem are not in some game mechanics. I let someone else to crush all the ruthless truth upon you, sir. Your point is still the same though - "Look I don't want to learn how to use given game mechanics!"
Some hints: 1: locked ships can't cloak back 2: there're some fast moving ships with huge scan-res out there, really! 3: there're some mods boosting your scan resolution and lock range (INDEED!) 4: ??? 5: Profit!
Honestly, try out WoW - there would be no reason for you to try to think and solve some daily in-game problems with sheer variety of tools, given to solve such problems.
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Mu'n Hurricane
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.06.14 15:31:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Denidil
1) Scanning and Probing doesn't reveal CLOAKED ships
Quoting, because this explains alot
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Forge Trader
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Posted - 2009.06.14 15:47:00 -
[24]
(sigh...)
Eliminating cloaking will not "improve" pvp. It will reduce it in another large part of Eve, as carebears (most players) retreat even further from situations they cannot protect their ships.
There already exist a whole series of tactics to reduce the effectiveness of cloaking. I am not going to tell you what they are, because I need my cloak for security against players like you. A dedicated pvper, however, unhappy with cloaks, would already know these tactics.
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Denidil
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2009.06.14 16:03:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Forge Trader (sigh...)
Eliminating cloaking will not "improve" pvp.
i stopped right there
I did not propose eliminating cloaking, and unless you read the actual things i've said and understand that I'm trying to proposed a balanced countermeasure - that doesn't render cloaking useless, but also reduces it from it's current godlike nature.
If you don't want to read a post then don't reply to it. |
Denidil
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2009.06.14 16:05:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Mu'n Hurricane ... Honestly, try out WoW
Grow up. Just because I think cloaking is overpowered and I attempted to propose a balanced PvP solution to it that is neither ineffective vs cloaking, nor an "I win button" vs cloaking does not mean I am some freaking carebear.
Seriously, Grow the hell up.
PS: Just looking at WoWs graphics, and having seen people who play it - it must suck donkey gonads. |
Mu'n Hurricane
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.06.14 16:13:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Mu''n Hurricane on 14/06/2009 16:15:33
Originally by: Forge Trader
There already exist a whole series of tactics to reduce the effectiveness of cloaking...
{edit} And, of course, if there's something somebody can't handle right - it is not "CCP fix it Pls!" it's "Think how to solve it."
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Mu'n Hurricane
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.06.14 16:19:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Denidil I am some freaking carebear.
this |
RuleoftheBone
Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.14 17:05:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Denidil Just because I think cloaking is overpowered Just because I think cloaking is overpowered Just because I think cloaking is overpowered Just because I think cloaking is overpowered Just because I think cloaking is overpowered
Solution?
Remove local.
Or play something else.
And btw.....with your vast experience http://xscx.evekb.co.uk/index.php?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=174716 flying and losing Rifters you wouldn't fly a sooper-dooper decloaker anyway
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madcatmdm
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Posted - 2009.06.14 17:27:00 -
[30]
so the ideal of get a mod to declock someone is not a bad ideal just need to make it even. So what about a ship that can do this like a battle cruisers and it is a 360 scan but take like 30 sce to do it and the clocked ship gets a warning. this will let you know what ships are coming at you. or you can have a mod like a smart bomb and spam that like every 30 sce at a range of like 10km.
just tossing up some ideals. Madcatmdm |
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