Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Aviditas
|
Posted - 2009.06.14 18:06:00 -
[31]
you seem to ignore the fact that this would pretty well nerf the ability of smaller corps with POS's in low sec to move goods in and out. Such people depend on blockade runners/covops cloaks to make it through gate camps. Yes there are Jump Freighters, if you can afford the 4.2 billion isk and months of training. Basically this would effectively shut down low sec trade, pirates would shed bitter tears at the thought of getting real jobs and making honest isk because their target pool dried up. This idea fails and gets two thumbs down.
|
Denidil
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2009.06.14 21:50:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Aviditas you seem to ignore the fact that this would pretty well nerf the ability of smaller corps with POS's in low sec to move goods in and out. Such people depend on blockade runners/covops cloaks to make it through gate camps. Yes there are Jump Freighters, if you can afford the 4.2 billion isk and months of training. Basically this would effectively shut down low sec trade, pirates would shed bitter tears at the thought of getting real jobs and making honest isk because their target pool dried up. This idea fails and gets two thumbs down.
yet another person pretends that i proposed an instant decloak 100% effectiveness "I win" button.
try reading what has actually been said
|
Kingwood
Amarr Yawn Corp Obscure Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.06.14 21:57:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Denidil
yet another person pretends that i proposed an instant decloak 100% effectiveness "I win" button.
try reading what has actually been said
No, you just proposed another chance-based mechanic. Seriously, the ECM mechanics ain't enough for you?
Idea is stupid, leave cloaks as they are.
|
Daedricbob
|
Posted - 2009.06.14 22:38:00 -
[34]
Best way to address this in in my view would be to have a scanner probe class designed purely to find cloaked ships, maybe launchable only from covops and with a lower base chance to find ships? This would expand the role of covops frigs without deviating from their main role, give cloaked probing a bit more excitement (is someone else hunting me?) give covops pilots some added danger if they so choose (they obviously uncloak themselves when they warp to 0 on a detected target) and stop cloaked afk'ing. Sending a covops in front of a small gang/fleet is good practice anyway, and this change would expand the fleets' tactical options without dramatically altering or unbalancing gameplay.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
|
Posted - 2009.06.14 22:44:00 -
[35]
All that trouble to fit the T2 turrets and all that other stuff..
and someone in a T1 and a proto cloak can still outsmart you.
Some people are so addicted to the killmails they can't stand it when they don't get their blob and gank.
I use cloaks for defensive purposes. I am not trying to sneak past anybody but I do have the right to deny them the killmail, or is it in the rules that I still have to fight when hopelessly outnumbered?
The game suffers from being "Gank & Blob Online" as it is, cloaks help those who don't want to do it that way, or cannot. There is not much that can be done with a cloak engaged either. It's just that for a lot of people, cloaks are quite useful when someone comes into the system and goes into Jan Brady mode solely on the fact that someone is in "their" system. It's even more fun when the emorageganker talks smack in local and gets a silent treatment. Probably makes them have flashbacks about their childhood. |
Denidil
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2009.06.15 00:33:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer All that trouble to fit the T2 turrets and all that other stuff..
and someone in a T1 and a proto cloak can still outsmart you.
Some people are so addicted to the killmails they can't stand it when they don't get their blob and gank.
I use cloaks for defensive purposes. I am not trying to sneak past anybody but I do have the right to deny them the killmail, or is it in the rules that I still have to fight when hopelessly outnumbered?
The game suffers from being "Gank & Blob Online" as it is, cloaks help those who don't want to do it that way, or cannot. There is not much that can be done with a cloak engaged either. It's just that for a lot of people, cloaks are quite useful when someone comes into the system and goes into Jan Brady mode solely on the fact that someone is in "their" system. It's even more fun when the emorageganker talks smack in local and gets a silent treatment. Probably makes them have flashbacks about their childhood.
just a few points:
1) our fleet was mostly t1, they were all flying tech 2 ships 2) they were smacking in local, we weren't responding 3) they were in the 0.0 system of an alliance fully hostile to them (Ushra'Kowards in a Sylph system) 4) they outnumbered us 2 to 1 and still didn't have the ********* to uncloak
|
Commander Yassir
Big Black Hole
|
Posted - 2009.06.15 01:54:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Daedricbob Best way to address this in in my view would be to have a scanner probe class designed purely to find cloaked ships, maybe launchable only from covops and with a lower base chance to find ships? This would expand the role of covops frigs without deviating from their main role, give cloaked probing a bit more excitement (is someone else hunting me?) give covops pilots some added danger if they so choose (they obviously uncloak themselves when they warp to 0 on a detected target) and stop cloaked afk'ing. Sending a covops in front of a small gang/fleet is good practice anyway, and this change would expand the fleets' tactical options without dramatically altering or unbalancing gameplay.
This but need a high scan strength to find rather then a chance based system. ~ The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. |
Hidden Snake
Caldari More-Cowbell
|
Posted - 2009.06.15 04:49:00 -
[38]
Lets close it as a complee bull**** and lock this thread
Already 3 times batnerfed cov op pilot
|
Denidil
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2009.06.15 11:59:00 -
[39]
What You said:
Originally by: Hidden Snake Lets close it as a complee bull**** and lock this thread
Already 3 times batnerfed cov op pilot
What I heard:
WHAAAA! WHAAA! Someone is proposing a balanced countermeasure to my "I win" button mechanic of choice! WHAAA! WHAAA!!
|
Mu'n Hurricane
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2009.06.15 12:59:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Denidil ... I am some freaking carebear...
Seriously,..
|
|
Mu'n Hurricane
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2009.06.15 13:10:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Denidil What You said:
Originally by: Hidden Snake Lets close it as a complee bull**** and lock this thread
Already 3 times batnerfed cov op pilot
What I heard...
is what you wanted to. There're always would be not enough countermeasures... to whining carebears, who - when they're unable to think and ask, propose "fixing" - bring screw ups into the game.
|
Mu'n Hurricane
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2009.06.15 13:24:00 -
[42]
For some amusement.. :)
Originally by: Denidil
just a few points:
1) our fleet was mostly t1, they were all flying tech 2 ships 2) they were smacking in local, we weren't responding 3) they were in the 0.0 system of an alliance fully hostile to them (Ushra'Kowards in a Sylph system) 4) they outnumbered us 2 to 1 and still didn't have the ********* to uncloak
so, to make it clear.. 1) = we faced a pro and better equipped enemy 2) = ~whines~ about... "spacehonor"? 3) = and??? ok, they are bad, they should not be there..? petition them? 4) = making you... cry. You decided not to look for ways to counter cloak ops.
summary: "mommy, bad boys calling me names, and making fun of me.. and I'm so busy sucking my lollipop - I can't neither think, nor respond.."
|
Caedes Rosa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.06.15 13:33:00 -
[43]
lol
|
Kiri Serrensun
|
Posted - 2009.06.15 19:18:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Kiri Serrensun on 15/06/2009 19:20:54
Originally by: Denidil they're pretty good about not taking bait unfortunately.
and why does almost everyone act like there is only "Cloaking is OP" vs "Cloaking is useless".. can they not fathom a balanced counter to cloaking? that doesn't render it useless but takes away some of the overpoweredness?
The problem is that nothing that is balanced if there's one of them will ever be deployed solo, especially not with a gatecamp. The gate camper aims to get 100% kills, and remove all element of doubt from whether the target dies. No matter what balance is intended, someone will find a way to put a perma-decloak aura around their gate of choice, guaranteed. |
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
|
Posted - 2009.06.15 19:31:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kiri Serrensun No matter what balance is intended, someone will find a way to put a perma-decloak aura around their gate of choice, guaranteed.
Yep.
Two years or so ago did anyone forsee multiple doomsday devices being fired in sequence?
Never underestimate the pilots of Eve in our ability to push a game mechanic to it's absolute and absurd limits. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
Forge Trader
|
Posted - 2009.06.15 20:56:00 -
[46]
Eve has some problems as a game.
One problems is that most of the Eve game universe is empty. No one will take their ships into most of Eve.
Cloaks, however, help players get out into Eve. Whether Cov ops, mission runners, or even miners. A cloaked covops is the typical first try by an empire dweller to get into no man's land. It is often followed by a try at mission running, or something else.
It is therefore foreseeable that any nerf to cloaks will proportionately increase Eve's problem that players won't go in most of Eve
Eve has another problem. The pirate/involuntary pvp player makes his game ganking the other players' stuff. However, the other players do not want their stuff ganked.
This is not a video game, where electronic enemies cheerfully die by the thousands. So, we have the tension between the gankers and the gankees, whereby one or the other wants to "balance" the other's game mechanics or equipment by making their own game play more successful.
However, the pirate types are not really looking for "balance". They are always and in every case looking for an unfair fight. I have never seen or heard an exception to this.
The gate campers, armed with, say, 4 pvp fitted BS's and BC's, wants to catch the unwary packed freighter, or the pve fitted Raven, or similar. So, the self serving talk about "balancing", has to be understood for what it really is.
Cloaks have a useful purpose and enable players to get into more of Eve than they could or would without them. They work in limited ways, with major drawbacks. There are already tactics, not discussed here, for minimizing their effectiveness.
Leave cloaks alone.
|
Robert0288
Caldari g guild Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2009.06.15 21:07:00 -
[47]
Quote: 2) Attempting to ram a cloaked ship to decloak them only works on ships that cannot move while cloaked, and only if you get a fix one them
lrn2decloak. Inties work best with this but I've done it more than a few times in hacs and recons aswell.
Hostile jumps in he decloaks, overheat MWD burn towards him. Also check what direction hes going in, adjust course to intercept. You can catch a cloaker abou 90% of the time in an inty, about 50% in a HAC depending on starting range and how good your bubblers are.
|
Devan Reale
|
Posted - 2009.06.15 23:15:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Devan Reale on 15/06/2009 23:16:06
Originally by: Denidil yet another person pretends that i proposed an instant decloak 100% effectiveness "I win" button.
You said:
Originally by: Denidil My corpies and I were discussing earlier that there should be some module that can punch through cloak. Obviously it would need balanced - high CPU usage, skill requirements, ship can move while using it, who knows.. something to balance.
Decloak vs "punch through" = same thing. You want to nerf cloaking because you don't like getting beat. Here's a suggestion: figure out a tactic to beat them with current game mechanics. If you can't, don't whine about cloaks being unfair: it just means you're not clever enough to play against them.
edit: if you consider nerfing cloaks a "balanace", then I should whine about griefers using large T2 ships & weps against small T1 ships and weps: BALANCE IT!!
|
Denidil
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 11:56:00 -
[49]
You people are seriously dense. You keep going on about "you guys got beat" when you clearly have neglected to read the description of the gate camp
1) IT was a defensive camp. We arrived to push a hostile pirate camp off the gate. 2) We succeeded in pushing them off the gate 3) We then sat there, bored, for over an hour keeping the pipe open while the pirate fleet cloaked hidden and smack talked 4) Most pirate fleet did to us was lob a few bombs from SBs in our direction... one at a time.. at 20 or so minute interval between them
I see a lot of people in this thread considering any limited counter measure to cloaking as rendering it useless. These are the same people that cannot seem to be bothered to read what I've actually said, and the people who seem to feel the need to attempt to insult me.
You know what I think? You people whining that any countermeasure renders it useless are probably little whiney noobs who are scared of 0.0 and use your cloak as an "I win! you can't catch me"
WHINE
That goes doubly for you Mu .. you're in a friggen newb corp and always have been. |
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 12:16:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Denidil You people are seriously dense. You keep going on about "you guys got beat" when you clearly have neglected to read the description of the gate camp
1) IT was a defensive camp. We arrived to push a hostile pirate camp off the gate. 2) We succeeded in pushing them off the gate 3) We then sat there, bored, for over an hour keeping the pipe open while the pirate fleet cloaked hidden and smack talked 4) Most pirate fleet did to us was lob a few bombs from SBs in our direction... one at a time.. at 20 or so minute interval between them
I see a lot of people in this thread considering any limited counter measure to cloaking as rendering it useless. These are the same people that cannot seem to be bothered to read what I've actually said, and the people who seem to feel the need to attempt to insult me.
You know what I think? You people whining that any countermeasure renders it useless are probably little whiney noobs who are scared of 0.0 and use your cloak as an "I win! you can't catch me"
WHINE
That goes doubly for you Mu .. you're in a friggen newb corp and always have been.
I ...
1 - Haven't insulted you once (though you do kinda ask for it starting out posts with "you people are dense"... think about it)
2 - Live full time in 0.0 and have for years
3 - Just think you have put forth a bad idea
4 - Have read all of your posts and still think it's a bad idea ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
|
Biscuit0
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 12:40:00 -
[51]
This thread was not a good idea. |
Mu'n Hurricane
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 15:08:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Denidil words~
can we haz moar tears plz? elaborate on each point of your glorious war |
Cupdeez
Out of Order Tenth Legion
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 17:37:00 -
[53]
I don't like this idea for a few reason... 1st reason if you spend 150mil on a ship and cloak why should the other team have a ship that can de-cloak you?
If you want to decloack something setup a sling bubble and warp to the bubble and sit at the edge.. Any cloaked ship warping to that gate will get uncloaked. No special weapons needed just a brain to figure out how to de-cloak ships..
Smartbombs work well also... They might not uncloak a ship but they will POP it almost instantly.
You can also bait cloaked ships pretty easy. Yeah they are stealthy but they can't tank, they can't do much DPS, so why make something that can make life more difficult for them?
|
Karentaki
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 19:38:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Karentaki on 16/06/2009 19:39:39
Originally by: Denidil So we all have experienced mission running smacktards that don't ever leave highsec and stay in an NPC corp. There is no way to counter a mission runner in an NPC corp.
My corpies and I were discussing earlier that there should be some way to legally kill them. Obviously it would need balanced - high cost, skill requirements, a time delay, who knows.. something to balance.
That way if you have a bunch of cowardly mission running smacktards in your space you can actually hunt them down.
As shown, this argument is equally applicable to many other 'carebear' activities. Once there is a way to kill people in highsec, then you can justify having a way to kill ships that are specifically designed to hide.
Believe it or not, cloaking is its own counter:
Things a cloaker can do:
Move Spin their ship Chat Check local
I don't see how that's overpowered.
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
|
The Tzar
Malicious Intentions Cult of War
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 22:18:00 -
[55]
As easymode as a decloak module would be I wouldn't want it game for many of the reasons above. Few things quite as satisfying as an elaborate web of orbits and drones to decloak another killmail for you. |
Zeimanov Kalzumaan
Caldari Haruspex Industries
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 23:44:00 -
[56]
I'll take the time and give you my opinion. To start with I fuly understand you do not intend to nerf all cloaking and that you are not proposing banning cloaking - so don't come back yelling how I've not listened.
If the module you are proposing was available, enough people in a camp would take it to statistically guarantee to decloak enemy ship. You might ot intend it to be used like this but that's what will happen.
Secondly you are neglecting the function of the ships you described - stealth bombers. If they could be decloaked just by fitting a module you would render an entire ship class almost useless by a single module.
|
Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 23:50:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Denidil There is no way to counter a cloaker who can move.
I guess that explains to total lack of any Covert Ops kills on any killboard. CCP fix this shiite!
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
|
Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 23:53:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Denidil as it is right now cloaking is over powered.. you can sit there in 0.0 and be perfectly safe for hours cloaked - that's BS.
I don't need a cloak to be perfectly safe for hours in 0.0. All I have to do is dock.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
|
Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 23:55:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Denidil IE the cloaking smacktards were camping that gate popping people as they came through, so we came and sat on gate to get them to stop.. and they didn't have the balls to engage us
Well damn, seems like you succeeded in breaking up the cloaky gate camp after all. -- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
|
Guillame Herschel
Gallente Buffalo Soldiers
|
Posted - 2009.06.16 23:59:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Denidil 4) Why do morons like you always assume that someone is inept if they propose a new game mechanic to enhance PVP?
Experience.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |