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Poetic Stanziel
The Fancy Hats Corporation
865
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 03:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2012/05/putting-kibosh-on-ineptitude.html
A few days ago I wrote a post highlighting a recent *bad fit*. I was convinced that nobody could possibly fit a ship that poorly, on purpose. I coined the kill a trollfit.
I was wrong. (No surprise there, I suppose.)
The fit is simply that bad. Mister [name withheld] is more than willing to fit *Navy Issue Megathrons* just as poorly.
I'm willing to believe and think that some people will sh*tfit a Tornado for the lols and the attention. But doing so to a 400M ISK hull? That's stretching credulity a tad.
I'm no expert at fitting, likely not very good at it oft times, but I know I've the wherewithal not to put something together quite as bad as dude's Tornado or Megathron. Fit for the bonuses. Don't mix ranges on your weaponry. Two cardinal rules that seem all too obvious to me. Even as a one-day old newbie, I could not see myself fitting a ship that horribly. And thus, it was hard to fathom that anyone else could not see the fail in those fits as well.
Incompetence is rampant in EVE Online. This has been pointed out to me. Several times.
*Crap Fit* *Bad Fit* *Horrible Fit* *WTF Fit*
And that's just a drop in the bucket.
But it got me to thinking. Wouldn't it make for a better EVE Online, for everyone, if people fit their ships better? Next time you destroy a horri-fit, maybe spend 10 minutes and throw your victim an evemail, giving them two or three pointers on how to better fit their ships. The evemail might be nothing more than a pointer about fitting same weapon same ammo, and reading their ship bonuses. That guy ends up improving his fit, you might get a bit better of a fight next time and that "gf" in local will have a little more meaning behind it.
***
(killmail *links* are in the post linked above. kept from linking directly here, since it may be against terms of service to call attention to specific bad fits in the forums.) The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Alyssa Yotosala
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
99
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Posted - 2012.05.17 03:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cool story bro...
but whats a Kibosh? |
Poetic Stanziel
The Fancy Hats Corporation
865
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 03:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alyssa Yotosala wrote:... but whats a Kibosh? There's this thing called a dictionary. You might find it useful. :)
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kibosh?s=t The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
697
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 03:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:I'm willing to believe and think that some people will sh*tfit a Tornado for the lols and the attention. But doing so to a 400M ISK hull? That's stretching credulity a tad. You need to get out more. It's more common than you might think.
edit: Very common.
edit 2: I can keep going with this. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Hulkageddon Orphanage
1146
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 03:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
An armor tanked CNR with mostly empty mid slots... I have nothing to say |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Royal One Piece Corporation Deadly Unknown
133
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 03:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
I can confirm that dictionaries are useful. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Poetic Stanziel
The Fancy Hats Corporation
867
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 04:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
So linking to/calling out inept fits directly on the forums is not against the EULA? Cool. I will add the links in an edit tomorrow. Getting late. Time for sleep.
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
697
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 04:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:So linking to/calling out inept fits directly on the forums is not against the EULA? Cool. I will add the links in an edit tomorrow. Getting late. Time for sleep. Technically it isn't. But it does appear to be tolerated when used to illustrate something. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
449
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 04:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
That drake is actually kind of a unique fit. Granted it's not the best e-war boat and its got practically no tank, but still fascinating. As a solo ship definitely a bad idea. Maybe as part of a rag tag gate blob he could have some fun with that funky build though I doubt he would ever jam anything higher than a frigate. |
Ares Renton
Smoking Minerals Syndicate Cannabis Legionis
41
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 04:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
When I was a new player, I just found stuff off of rats and fit it to my ship. Since people can just PLEX themselves an expensive ship, anybody can get ahold of a Navy Megathron these days and fit it with crap they found on rats.
Not everybody takes the time to read guides, and a lot of players try to figure things out themselves. I'm sure that a lot of them go by the line of thought "well I want a small weapon to shoot frigates with, a big weapon to shoot battleships with, and a short range weapon and a long range weapon so I can cover all ranges of engagement".
Or maybe they just look at all those rows and rows of numbers and have no idea what they mean?
Anyways, I'd like to have the fortune of encountering fits like those in PVP so please don't tell them they're flying utterly inefficient builds. |
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Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
179
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Posted - 2012.05.17 05:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
It isn't against the EULA because you are not calling for direct harassment, or inciting whatever vs a person, only the fit. Only commenting on something out of game.
That said, If the person did it with a mega, yeah I think they are still trolling. There actually are people with that much money to troll with. The huge thing about failfits, at least in early stage is basic logic doesn't apply to the concept of an eve fit. The new players definitely need a bit more of a drivers training tutorial that explains the how to of fitting. Those CDIA files or whatever. need more of those with remote links. Except links like to fail, so wonder if possible to do it in game videos.
Wait, we have that massive station big screen. .BNK files, or a window popup if in station view. |
Ares Renton
Smoking Minerals Syndicate Cannabis Legionis
42
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Posted - 2012.05.17 05:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote: That said, If the person did it with a mega, yeah I think they are still trolling. There actually are people with that much money to troll with.
Well the thing about trolling is that the premise is to make someone else look like an idiot, or to waste their time and money.
When you make yourself look like an idiot and waste your own time and money, you're not a troll, you're just an idiot. |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
179
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 05:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Also depends on the person that is looking like an idiot. Some people (well alot of people) do dumb things just to get a rise out of others. Even more stand a gawk. So yeah, not a troll per se, but still causing a longer post. |
Malak Dawnfire
27th Gallentean Fleet
38
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Posted - 2012.05.17 05:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
I've had a few bad fits, mine still probably isn't optimal but I always tend to check websites or ask around for suggestions on better fits as I move up the ship ladder, sounds like this guy should do the same thing. |
Poetic Stanziel
The Fancy Hats Corporation
867
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 12:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
An anonymous poster over on the blog explained the sh*tfit mindset to me:
Quote:I used to mix railguns and hybrids on my thorax, so I can explain the mind set to you just fine.
"Man, the short range on blasters really sucks, getting kited is really annoying. *ponders* O MY GOD I HAVE THE SOLUTION. IF I FIT A RAILGUN I CAN DO DAMAGE AT RANGE TOO. I AM A GENIUS.
And with this tracking disruptor and overdrive injector I can SPEEDTANK EVERYTHING! HELL YEAH! And with Inertia Stabilizers I can WARP FASTER, SO GATECAMPS WON'T CATCH ME! WOOT!
Unfortunately there is not enough CPU left for a decent tank so BRING ON THE CIVILIAN SHIELD BOOSTERS. Everyone will look at the kills I make with this and think: woah, got a kill despite having only a civilian shield booster fitted. He must be good at EVE!
EHP is still kinda ****** though. If I downgrade 2 of the heavy ions to light electrons I could fit some armor tank in the last low slots. I will do that. AND THE LIGHT ELECTRONS MEAN I CAN KILL FRIGATES EVEN EASIER, OMG!
THIS IS THE MOST AMAZING FIT EVER SEEN BY MAN! The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Jonah Gravenstein
293
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 12:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
The mining Rokh isn't that bad, needs some improvement though. The other fits are just lolworthy, I would term them as Kitchen Sink fits, because it's the only thing that the owners didn't fit. War hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2012.05.17 12:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2012/05/putting-kibosh-on-ineptitude.htmlA few days ago I wrote a post highlighting a recent *bad fit*. I was convinced that nobody could possibly fit a ship that poorly, on purpose. I coined the kill a trollfit. I was wrong. (No surprise there, I suppose.) The fit is simply that bad. Mister [name withheld] is more than willing to fit *Navy Issue Megathrons* just as poorly. I'm willing to believe and think that some people will sh*tfit a Tornado for the lols and the attention. But doing so to a 400M ISK hull? That's stretching credulity a tad. I'm no expert at fitting, likely not very good at it oft times, but I know I've the wherewithal not to put something together quite as bad as dude's Tornado or Megathron. Fit for the bonuses. Don't mix ranges on your weaponry. Two cardinal rules that seem all too obvious to me. Even as a one-day old newbie, I could not see myself fitting a ship that horribly. And thus, it was hard to fathom that anyone else could not see the fail in those fits as well. Incompetence is rampant in EVE Online. This has been pointed out to me. Several times. *Crap Fit* *Bad Fit* *Horrible Fit* *WTF Fit* And that's just a drop in the bucket. But it got me to thinking. Wouldn't it make for a better EVE Online, for everyone, if people fit their ships better? Next time you destroy a horri-fit, maybe spend 10 minutes and throw your victim an evemail, giving them two or three pointers on how to better fit their ships. The evemail might be nothing more than a pointer about fitting same weapon same ammo, and reading their ship bonuses. That guy ends up improving his fit, you might get a bit better of a fight next time and that "gf" in local will have a little more meaning behind it. *** (killmail *links* are in the post linked above. kept from linking directly here, since it may be against terms of service to call attention to specific bad fits in the forums.)
The day I decide to leave the game, you can be sure the fits you'll find in my gank/grief and whatever ships I'll take to burn my isk, will make you write another blog like that one.
Lol fits? -officer/dead space fit Rifter. -officer dead space fit Velator -double tank torp/laser Navy Mega -180's nano vindi -civilian fit Tengu/proteus/Loki -heavy pulse laser II Machariel -passive tank 15 drones chimaera -fill the Orca wih as much ships/modules/ore I can, double tank and self destruct at entry gate to Jita -shoot (nos) gates in high sec with hulk and mackinaw -disco phoon at rookie system
Biomass each char and /bye, just like I do in every game I've played, I never come back.
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Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
60
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 12:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
So how does a person come up with a crap fit? Easily explained - they do not understand what the strengths and weaknesses are of a particular combination of mods BECAUSE they do not understand the maths. And some people don't want to. That is the one BIG failing of Eve - it is required for people to understand quite sophisticated inter-dependencies - without a manual and the result is fail fits.
Generally the way to help these people is to educate them. So stop being assholes and show them... HELP them and they will be better because of it and you will get a better fight (as was said earlier) I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking |
Josef Djugashvilis
179
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 14:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
I am inept, and as Eve is a sandbox, I insist on the freedom to stay inept.
Currently training 'inept' lvl 5 You want fries with that? |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1510
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 15:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
My theory on those "kitchen sink" fits is that they haven't figured out that most ships have bonuses on certain weapon systems. If you don't know that AND you aren't aware of the fact that damage mods are weapon-specific, then there's some weird logic to throwing one of each kind of gun on your ship.
Look at modern naval vessels. They have torpedoes, cruise missiles, big guns, small guns, anti-missile gun batteries...loading a ship with eight of the same size gun with nothing else on it would be suicide, as it couldn't hold its own against anything BUT ships vulnerable to that particular type of weapon. From a "I don't read item descriptions" perspective, it makes sense to put guns with different ranges and damage types on a ship. That way you can shoot frigates with the two small autocannons you put on your battleship but still be able to snipe with those two large tachs you stuck on there.
Eve would definitely do well to have better fitting training early in the tutorials, including making the viewing of ship and module descriptions and attributes a required part of an early tutorial mission. SHOW them that certain ships should use certain weapons, teach them to identify the modules they need to have a semi-competent fitting, and then cut them lose. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
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Ituhata Saken
Crimson Cross Destroyers
30
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 15:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Klandi wrote:So how does a person come up with a crap fit? Easily explained - they do not understand what the strengths and weaknesses are of a particular combination of mods BECAUSE they do not understand the maths. And some people don't want to. That is the one BIG failing of Eve - it is required for people to understand quite sophisticated inter-dependencies - without a manual and the result is fail fits.
Generally the way to help these people is to educate them. So stop being assholes and show them... HELP them and they will be better because of it and you will get a better fight (as was said earlier)
stokar's thanatos. That is all. |
Kehro Urgus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
324
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 17:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
I came across this http://latenightalliance.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13296166 a couple weeks ago. It is so terrible it is beyond belief. Can't understand why anyone would do this. Always forgive your enemies - nothing annoys them so much. -- Oscar Wilde
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ostar ostar
Odyssey Space Exploration
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 18:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
That's easy, new guy RMTs a carrier char, reads a pvp 101 guide, sees you should fit a point, web, prop mod, and cap booster in the mids, along with w/e for spare slots, an tank in the lows including HP buffer and DC, plus some more w/e. Then adds an NOS (again, often recommended in PVP guides), probe launcher (nobody can hide, plus exploration has good money, right?) DLA (can't have short-range drones, can we?) and a salvager (wrecks bring good money, right?) and a smartbomb (because other peoples drones could be annoying) and boom, fit. Then goes solo looking for targets, because caps are overpowered, aren't they? *headdesk*
The thing is, as people have already said, eve is counter-intuitive re:ship fitting as you specialize into 1 role and hope it comes around rather than being ready for anything like in other MMO games, so people try to do omnipotent fits and die very very quickly, often with absurdly expensive stuff on them, as in other MMOs, expensive stuff tends to make you massively powerful, where here, it gives you a slight edge, but isn't game breaking. The tutorial really needs to emphasize this, as most newbies aren't dumb or w/e, just never actually told except on the forums (which few read) or in 3rd party guides, that omni-fitting is a very bad idea. Sure, some odd/extravagant fits can and do work, but it's like playing russian roulette with a minigun; nothing short of a miracle or very good circumstances will avoid getting your ass killed. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1493
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 06:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
That fit looked like some of my early fits from years ago when I simply used the stuff that I found off rats. It was before I could use T2 anything and I didn't have a lot of ISK either.
The "everything fit" is real though. You will find them in ships equipped for exploration. You never know what you find out there and I have a fit that would be a laughing stock around here but it's been going down wormholes and to 0.0 since 2009. It also survived several Sansha live events with the exploration fit.
Since there is no specific exploration ship suitable for lone wolves (no, not the covops - obvious it was that day I found a class 1 WH for a covops pilot who disappears into it, and comes back 5 minutes later in hull saying "this isn't going to work"), there is something of a exploration "template" that can be applied to just about any battle cruiser. The BC is the largest ship you can use without having to worry about mass (most of the time).
But while useful, where a exploration template on even a T1 hull can survive low class WH and 0.0 exploration sites (forget the heavy hitters), they do indeed make for very bad looking KMs. Command ships are an exception because with the right skills and fit, it's possible to solo up to class 4 (class 5 unconfirmed I'd have to see it to believe it). Perhaps the saddest such KM I have seen for a exploration fit was the Claymore whose pilot decided he could just loot everybody's wrecks during a Sansha live event (evidently the memo does not reach wormhole space) and roughly 12 people, not wanting to miss a chance on a command ship kill, promptly vaporized it.
I think that a real "troll fit" would be for cases when you know you are going to lose the ship so you fit it with nothing but junk as a way of trying to RL-kill your enemies who might die when they see it. At the least they go away feeling like they wasted their ammo on it. |
Ares Renton
Smoking Minerals Syndicate Cannabis Legionis
44
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 06:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Bahaha. The whole thing is pretty funny, but I ESPECIALLY liked the 1mn afterburner. Nice touch, really. It makes you go what? 1m/s faster? 1cm/s faster? |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
147
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Posted - 2012.05.18 06:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
wtf is a kibosh, some kind of Jewish magic trick? There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Ares Renton
Smoking Minerals Syndicate Cannabis Legionis
45
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 06:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:wtf is a kibosh, some kind of Jewish magic trick?
It's Britney Spears' new religion. |
Josef Djugashvilis
179
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 11:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ares Renton wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:wtf is a kibosh, some kind of Jewish magic trick? It's Britney Spears' new religion.
Or one of Madonna's old ones. You want fries with that? |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1016
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 12:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Check out this person's killboard, the cyclone fits are beautiful.
Also, possibly the best Thanatos fit I have ever seen, so bad even Cascade Imminent could kill it:
*EDIT:
Also, I did actually send cyclone guy an eve mail after killing him. He argued with me on his cyclone fit's "merits", genuinely convinced that it was very well built for the job despite his having lost some 100+ of them.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Elara Zetoya
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
41
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 12:43:00 -
[30] - Quote
I'm of the opinion that NPC corps should at least have a few cookie-cutter corp fits to help new players find their feet. I think you'd see a lot less absurd fittings if there were stock standard options as a base. "The problem with the gene pool is that there's no life guard." ~ Steve Wright |
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