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Br4inz
Abacus research and design incorported
0
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Posted - 2012.05.17 09:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just come back to the game after a fairly long break, got a dread sitting about, are these only used for pos bashing stil ?
is so its gona get sold/refined cos no way im coming back to eve to shoot pos =p |
Capt Retard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.05.17 09:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
yup - pos bashing .. they had their siege cycle halved, so a bit less crispy. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
446
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Posted - 2012.05.17 09:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Br4inz wrote:Just come back to the game after a fairly long break, got a dread sitting about, are these only used for pos bashing stil ?
is so its gona get sold/refined cos no way im coming back to eve to shoot pos =p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2ti9DFeRMI
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Br4inz
Abacus research and design incorported
0
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Posted - 2012.05.17 10:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Br4inz wrote:Just come back to the game after a fairly long break, got a dread sitting about, are these only used for pos bashing stil ?
is so its gona get sold/refined cos no way im coming back to eve to shoot pos =p http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2ti9DFeRMI
lol that made me chuckle |
wallenbergaren
University of Caille Gallente Federation
42
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Posted - 2012.05.17 11:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Use them for POS shoots, shooting POCOs, quick ganks and in WH space you can PvE with them. |
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
86
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Posted - 2012.05.17 11:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Wh sites, collapsing wh, ganking other idiots in wh sites. Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country. |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
84
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Posted - 2012.05.17 16:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sell them, they're worth more than what you bought them for. |
ELECTR0FREAK
44
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Posted - 2012.05.17 17:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dreads really should be an anti-capital weapon... it's a shame they're not very effective at it.
Granted, it's been a while since I got rid of my Revelation, but it's kinda sad when a typical Carrier has no trouble tanking a DPS-fit Dread. Discoverer of CCP's original missile damage formula. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.05.17 20:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
ELECTR0FREAK wrote:Dreads really should be an anti-capital weapon... it's a shame they're not very effective at it.
Granted, it's been a while since I got rid of my Revelation, but it's kinda sad when a typical Carrier has no trouble tanking a DPS-fit Dread.
Since when?
A typical carrier can "easily" tank 90K shots from Moros with support fleet? -excuse me if I have some hard time believing you.
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Noisrevbus
123
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Posted - 2012.05.17 21:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Looking at the comments in the video Mfume linked: Someone asked why more people don't "do this", and got the reply that usually you just get counter-dropped.
That's pretty amusing, as one of the reasons more people began using them again, and have done so for a good while now, is that they have been an "affordable" option in the supercapital paradigm.
Even more groups have caught on now with the Crucible changes and the "blapping" trend, but even prior to that they had their application in anti-super blitzes where you could cut your losses when batphoned and escalated (assuming you're in a corp that would consider 3-10b on the stake well worth it to get a goodfight [super kill]).
Most level-scaled engagements contain Dreads today, to contend with triage and deal with random supers.
Once you hit that infamous "blob barrier", again, piling on supers with superior HP-pools just become better. Critical mass and all that once more . |
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Ashera Yune
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2012.05.18 00:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dreads + Doomsday = 2+ billion isk instant easy killmail for Titan Pilot |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
6
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Posted - 2012.05.20 09:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
ELECTR0FREAK wrote:Dreads really should be an anti-capital weapon... it's a shame they're not very effective at it.
Granted, it's been a while since I got rid of my Revelation, but it's kinda sad when a typical Carrier has no trouble tanking a DPS-fit Dread.
How is this the case, though? Looking at the video posted in this thread, the Dreadnaught was doing an actual dps of at least 10,000 assuming he did not miss, which he won't against a slow moving ultra large ship like a carrier.
So why aren't they effective anti capital ships? |
Baneken
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
125
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Posted - 2012.05.20 11:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:ELECTR0FREAK wrote:Dreads really should be an anti-capital weapon... it's a shame they're not very effective at it.
Granted, it's been a while since I got rid of my Revelation, but it's kinda sad when a typical Carrier has no trouble tanking a DPS-fit Dread. How is this the case, though? Looking at the video posted in this thread, the Dreadnaught was doing an actual dps of at least 10,000 assuming he did not miss, which he won't against a slow moving ultra large ship like a carrier. So why aren't they effective anti capital ships?
Because of siege and that mom's had an equal/better DPS with E-war immunity and that FB's had no problems what so ever at dealing that same 10k dps on sub-capitals as well as capitals. Now that super caps are least somewhat toned down regular caps, or rather their sub-capital support fleets, aren't as vulnerable as they used to.
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Reppyk
The Black Shell
120
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Posted - 2012.05.20 12:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
ELECTR0FREAK wrote:Granted, it's been a while since I got rid of my Revelation, but it's kinda sad when a typical Carrier has no trouble tanking a DPS-fit Dread. Tell me how you tank the 14,000 dps from a moros. Oh wait, you can't. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
6
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Posted - 2012.05.20 12:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Drakarin wrote:ELECTR0FREAK wrote:Dreads really should be an anti-capital weapon... it's a shame they're not very effective at it.
Granted, it's been a while since I got rid of my Revelation, but it's kinda sad when a typical Carrier has no trouble tanking a DPS-fit Dread. How is this the case, though? Looking at the video posted in this thread, the Dreadnaught was doing an actual dps of at least 10,000 assuming he did not miss, which he won't against a slow moving ultra large ship like a carrier. So why aren't they effective anti capital ships? Because of siege and that mom's had an equal/better DPS with E-war immunity and that FB's had no problems what so ever at dealing that same 10k dps on sub-capitals as well as capitals. Now that super caps are least somewhat toned down regular caps, or rather their sub-capital support fleets, aren't as vulnerable as they used to.
Hmm that's interesting.
I thought Dreadnaughts were immune to ewar.. that's an insanely ridiculous vulnerability for such a gargantuan and expensive ship. also can be one shot from a Titan. Ouch.
I'm not sure the doomsday device change was actually good. It made sub caps more effective but made non supercaps pointless since they can be instantly destroyed. I believe carriers and dreads were able to tank the previous doomsday right?
Reppyk wrote:ELECTR0FREAK wrote:Granted, it's been a while since I got rid of my Revelation, but it's kinda sad when a typical Carrier has no trouble tanking a DPS-fit Dread. Tell me how you tank the 14,000 dps from a moros. Oh wait, you can't.
What is amazing is the effecitve HP of a Titan can be in the 70 million if I recall, so it takes about an hour and 20 minutes for a single Dread to destroy one.
Damn, at least titans truly do have a hell of a buffer. I'd expect nothing less from a ship that technically is worth 4,000$ USD. |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
85
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Posted - 2012.05.20 14:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:
I thought Dreadnaughts were immune to ewar.. that's an insanely ridiculous vulnerability for such a gargantuan and expensive ship. also can be one shot from a Titan. Ouch.
What is amazing is the effecitve HP of a Titan can be in the 70 million if I recall
Dreads are immune in siege mode. Amarr/Caldari Moms can/have similar buffer to titans. |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
7
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Posted - 2012.05.20 15:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Reppyk wrote:ELECTR0FREAK wrote:Granted, it's been a while since I got rid of my Revelation, but it's kinda sad when a typical Carrier has no trouble tanking a DPS-fit Dread. Tell me how you tank the 14,000 dps from a moros. Oh wait, you can't.
A well fit carrier with ganglinks and boosters can easily tank 14k dps. Throwing neuts into the mix changes it a bit but thats another story.
A mildly pimped archon with legion links, exile and overheating can tank more than twice that for a couple of minutes or so and 25-28k dps sustained.
Chimeras while less used in k-space warfare can tank upto 60-70K when moderatly pimped for short bursts and again can tank 25-28K dps sustained. (Even a strictly T2 fit can tank well over 16K dps sustained).
I think the balance is pretty good tho in that you need heavy neuting + 1 moros or 2-3 moros to break a carrier a carrier should be able to sustain quite a bit of damage for awhile. |
Wyte Ragnarok
40
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Posted - 2012.05.20 16:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Br4inz wrote:Just come back to the game after a fairly long break, got a dread sitting about, are these only used for pos bashing stil ?
is so its gona get sold/refined cos no way im coming back to eve to shoot pos =p http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2ti9DFeRMI
Regarding that video: how do get this? Because when I hover over someone's ship, it's all in white. I like multi-colours. And it'd make it easier to find ship types out. I've never seen an option to enable "multicoloured tags or something" |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
448
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Posted - 2012.05.20 16:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Wyte Ragnarok wrote:Regarding that video: how do get this?Because when I hover over someone's ship, it's all in white. I like multi-colours. And it'd make it easier to find ship types out. I've never seen an option to enable "multicoloured tags or something"
It's from a UI customization site that's no longer around, basically just playing around with the text files to add color tags. Unfortunately I don't know where to find it anymore ((
Reppyk wrote:Tell me how you tank the 14,000 dps from a moros. Oh wait, you can't.
Triaged Archon + 2 local reppers + 2x EANMs + Damnation bonuses = 14k DPS tanked (before heat or exile). It's cap stable doing that btw. Overheated w/ strong exile, it's about 25k DPS tanked. |
Billy Kidd
Two Holes One Tower
12
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Posted - 2012.05.20 17:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Wyte Ragnarok wrote:Mfume Apocal wrote:Br4inz wrote:Just come back to the game after a fairly long break, got a dread sitting about, are these only used for pos bashing stil ?
is so its gona get sold/refined cos no way im coming back to eve to shoot pos =p http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2ti9DFeRMI Regarding that video: how do get this?Because when I hover over someone's ship, it's all in white. I like multi-colours. And it'd make it easier to find ship types out. I've never seen an option to enable "multicoloured tags or something"
Export your current overview settings. Find the exported XML file under in the documents/EVE/Overview folder. Manipulate the XML file and import it back into EVE.
http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=49396 |
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
50
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Posted - 2012.05.20 17:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:ELECTR0FREAK wrote:Dreads really should be an anti-capital weapon... it's a shame they're not very effective at it.
Granted, it's been a while since I got rid of my Revelation, but it's kinda sad when a typical Carrier has no trouble tanking a DPS-fit Dread. How is this the case, though? Looking at the video posted in this thread, the Dreadnaught was doing an actual dps of at least 10,000 assuming he did not miss, which he won't against a slow moving ultra large ship like a carrier. So why aren't they effective anti capital ships?
Speed tank.
Unless it's in triage, the dread will miss, all the time. |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
7
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Posted - 2012.05.20 17:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote: Triaged Archon + 2 local reppers + 2x EANMs + Damnation bonuses = 14k DPS tanked (before heat or exile). It's cap stable doing that btw. Overheated w/ strong exile, it's about 25k DPS tanked.
Throw in exile, legion booster and a couple of faction eanms (they aren't _that_ expensive) and thats easily well over 20K dps sustained tank without overheating.
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Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
6
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Posted - 2012.05.20 19:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Drakarin wrote:ELECTR0FREAK wrote:Dreads really should be an anti-capital weapon... it's a shame they're not very effective at it.
Granted, it's been a while since I got rid of my Revelation, but it's kinda sad when a typical Carrier has no trouble tanking a DPS-fit Dread. How is this the case, though? Looking at the video posted in this thread, the Dreadnaught was doing an actual dps of at least 10,000 assuming he did not miss, which he won't against a slow moving ultra large ship like a carrier. So why aren't they effective anti capital ships? Speed tank. Unless it's in triage, the dread will miss, all the time.
A dread will miss when firing against a capital ship moving at 60 m/s ...?
The hell? |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
51
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Posted - 2012.05.20 20:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:sabre906 wrote:Drakarin wrote:ELECTR0FREAK wrote:Dreads really should be an anti-capital weapon... it's a shame they're not very effective at it.
Granted, it's been a while since I got rid of my Revelation, but it's kinda sad when a typical Carrier has no trouble tanking a DPS-fit Dread. How is this the case, though? Looking at the video posted in this thread, the Dreadnaught was doing an actual dps of at least 10,000 assuming he did not miss, which he won't against a slow moving ultra large ship like a carrier. So why aren't they effective anti capital ships? Speed tank. Unless it's in triage, the dread will miss, all the time. A dread will miss when firing against a capital ship moving at 60 m/s ...? The hell?
Yes, a lot. |
Twisted Girl
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
28
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Posted - 2012.05.20 21:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Drakarin wrote:ELECTR0FREAK wrote:Dreads really should be an anti-capital weapon... it's a shame they're not very effective at it.
Granted, it's been a while since I got rid of my Revelation, but it's kinda sad when a typical Carrier has no trouble tanking a DPS-fit Dread. How is this the case, though? Looking at the video posted in this thread, the Dreadnaught was doing an actual dps of at least 10,000 assuming he did not miss, which he won't against a slow moving ultra large ship like a carrier. So why aren't they effective anti capital ships? Because of siege and that mom's had an equal/better DPS with E-war immunity and that FB's had no problems what so ever at dealing that same 10k dps on sub-capitals as well as capitals. Now that super caps are least somewhat toned down regular caps, or rather their sub-capital support fleets, aren't as vulnerable as they used to.
its a lot of things that wrong in this thread but Im just gonna point out a few.
first off all supers got twice the dmg of a carrier if they had all their fighter drones. (which is like 2500 dps in a nyx) however real combat fitted supers WILL NEVER have 20 fighters, nyxes and hels will have 15 , aeons and wyverns gonna have 10) They want to have 20 fighterbomber and then its only room for 15-10 fighters. This means that Aeons and Wyverns do exactly the same dps as their "non supercap" siberlings, 1k dps (archon and chimera) agains subcaps. Nyx which does the most does 1920dps with its 15 fighters. That is if target is webbed/got huge enough sig to be hit full force. Fighters tracks a little worse than heavy drones in my experince.
FBs is totaly useless again subcaps btw.
Quote:Speed tank. Unless it's in triage, the dread will miss, all the time. A dread will miss when firing against a capital ship moving at 60 m/s ...? The hell? ]Yes, a lot.
Dreads got 0 issues tracking carriers unless they use the long range guns and sit at 5km trying to shoot carriers moving. That is without tracking fit aswell.You can hit frigates with dreads I mean as long as you know what your is doing/frigate doesnt know what hes doing.
Btw reason why Dreads is less popular in non WH is mostly due to that they are 3 billion a pop due to mineral prices, they are a blob magnate and scale worse than carriers(cant rep eachother) , they are stuck for 5min pr cycle, They do equally/bether damage than a super , but got much less ehp. and people are afraid of loosing them. the second you trow away the "afraid" of loosing them the quicker you will have success with them. As long as your just catch people by suprice and is simply shooting someone/something while they are disorginized they rule. |
Baneken
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
126
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Posted - 2012.05.21 22:12:00 -
[26] - Quote
Twisted Girl wrote:
its a lot of things that wrong in this thread but Im just gonna point out a few.
first off all supers got twice the dmg of a carrier if they had all their fighter drones. (which is like 2500 dps in a nyx) however real combat fitted supers WILL NEVER have 20 fighters, nyxes and hels will have 15 , aeons and wyverns gonna have 10) They want to have 20 fighterbomber and then its only room for 15-10 fighters. This means that Aeons and Wyverns do exactly the same dps as their "non supercap" siberlings, 1k dps (archon and chimera) agains subcaps. Nyx which does the most does 1920dps with its 15 fighters. That is if target is webbed/got huge enough sig to be hit full force. Fighters tracks a little worse than heavy drones in my experince.
FBs is totaly useless again subcaps btw.
3 per lvl = 15 + 5 = 20 = 10 000 dps from a max skilled Nyx; FB's used to hit full on any subcapital. As far as fighters/drones are concerned a Nyx or any other mom can have twice as much fighters out as any carrier.
Now that FB's have guns instead of missiles along with a host of other nerfs they are a lot less deadly on sub capitals then they used to. Also 5 min siege timer and other improvements have made dreads a whole lot better (especially the removal of tracking bonus while sieged) and I can't complain about 5min triage on carriers either. |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
120
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Posted - 2012.05.22 02:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
I haven't tried it but don't dreads still lose all targeting when shifting to siege mode?
They do lose three quarters of their scan res (example: A Moros will go from 100mm to 25mm in siege).
That composite means you spend about 20 seconds locking a Carrier once you do get in siege mode and that 14k DPS number is based upon siege -- using anti-matter, which will get you under 6k optimal with 19k falloff.
A blaster Moros should probably look at different ammo than anti-matter if that carrier isn't in triage mode. Parking on top of a target (siege), then spending 20 seconds or so locking it is quite a while if it can move at all. |
Valea Silpha
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
62
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Posted - 2012.05.22 08:55:00 -
[28] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Drakarin wrote:sabre906 wrote:Drakarin wrote:ELECTR0FREAK wrote:Dreads really should be an anti-capital weapon... it's a shame they're not very effective at it.
Granted, it's been a while since I got rid of my Revelation, but it's kinda sad when a typical Carrier has no trouble tanking a DPS-fit Dread. How is this the case, though? Looking at the video posted in this thread, the Dreadnaught was doing an actual dps of at least 10,000 assuming he did not miss, which he won't against a slow moving ultra large ship like a carrier. So why aren't they effective anti capital ships? Speed tank. Unless it's in triage, the dread will miss, all the time. A dread will miss when firing against a capital ship moving at 60 m/s ...? The hell? Yes, a lot.
Well, its the same old tracking formula. You can't just say a carrier will speed tank a sieged dread without some qualifiers.
If the carrier is very very close to the dread, and it is orbiting at max speed, then yes, it can drop its damage to practically nothing. However, that's not hugely realistic for a number of reasons.
Firstly, dropping a dread on a carrier before it is in triage is dumb. And tbh, even beyond that you shouldn't be dropping the dread until it is in triage and under some capacitor pressure, with your sub caps switching dps around and generally forcing it to run reps a lot.
Secondly, dropping a dread on a carrier at 0m is dumb. Capital blasters may not have epic range, but they have a good 20km range, and you should be seeking to drop at about 15ish km away, with the dread coming in so that anything the carrier might want to burn towards when it comes out of triage is in a straight line.
Thirdly, if your sub caps can manage to put 1 regular non pimp web on the carrier, then its ability to speed tank is greatly diminished (8k dps at 5km, 10k dps at 8km) , and with 2 webs its basically non existent (10k dps at 3km at full transversal).
Finally, a carrier would have to be totally surplus to requirements in terms of repping its subcap gang to even think about dropping out of triage and orbiting a dread thats shooting it. If the carriers reps are totally unneeded, then that means the dreads sup cap gang has failed. They are fighting against a bigger or better equipped gang that is just shrugging off its damage, and that means that the dread is probably going to die anyway because its support can't help it. The carrier has no need to be there, and so would probably be better advised to leave than to stay and orbit the dread for giggles.
So put all that together, and it tells us that while it is certainly possible to speed tank a dread in a carrier. I'm certainly not denying that. However, for a lot of reasons its not generally realistic. If a carrier is a triage and gets shot at by a singular dread, its pretty much stuck there until the fight is decided one way or the other. If it untriages at some point, it is to jump out or otherwise run away.
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1564
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Posted - 2012.05.22 09:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:ELECTR0FREAK wrote:Dreads really should be an anti-capital weapon... it's a shame they're not very effective at it.
Granted, it's been a while since I got rid of my Revelation, but it's kinda sad when a typical Carrier has no trouble tanking a DPS-fit Dread. Since when? A typical carrier can "easily" tank 90K shots from Moros with support fleet? -excuse me if I have some hard time believing you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMFahR4wXTg
Here's a pair of Archons tanking 2 Dreads and 4 Supers. How's that for a support fleet. Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Cunanium
NUTS AND BOLTS MANUFACTURING En Garde
13
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Posted - 2012.05.23 23:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:ELECTR0FREAK wrote:Dreads really should be an anti-capital weapon... it's a shame they're not very effective at it.
Granted, it's been a while since I got rid of my Revelation, but it's kinda sad when a typical Carrier has no trouble tanking a DPS-fit Dread. Since when? A typical carrier can "easily" tank 90K shots from Moros with support fleet? -excuse me if I have some hard time believing you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMFahR4wXTgHere's a pair of Archons tanking 2 Dreads and 4 Supers. How's that for a support fleet.
If the archons are tactically refitting and the other side isn't paying attention, then yes they can. And if the other side isn't bringing in a nuet domi with their support... I mean the video is pretty fail on the other side...
Dreads have become a whole lot better since the removal of the tracking penalty for siege mode. I think most people in this thread never read patch notes or something... With T2 sieges, removal of tracking penalties and the sig radius nerf to Titan XL turrets, dreads are now the blap machines against sub caps. "A Dread in Siege" is now a saying of the past...
Carrier speed tank a dread? Lawl, not anymore. Throw a web on the carrier if he even manages to get close to the dread and it is all over.
Mom's also have a huge liability with FB's. A good support fleet will completely remove FB's from the field, eliminating their dps. Hence, most Mom's have been relegated to the world of TP'ing for Titans to blap, or as fleet fixture points.
The problem with dreads now is their lack of tank and relatively poor scaling with regards to carriers, however, with newer tactics against Fighters and FB, carriers have started to lose their edge in fights as well. You will start to see alot more dreads out there since they bring alot of the blap capability of a titan without the huge liability. |
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