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Allen Ramses
Caldari Typo Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.17 20:02:00 -
[1]
There are problems regarding missiles that need to be addressed.
* Rockets, light missiles, and cruise missiles have horrible DPS. * Rockets can't hit faster frigates, as they often travel above 2250m/s. * Missiles in general have fitting issues. * Static damage reduction based on signature makes torps/citadels/etc useless against POS modules. * Guided Missile Precision only affects long range missiles
These core problems cause a multitude of other problems, such as heavy fury missiles dealing more raw DPS than cruise missiles, long range missiles tracking much better than short range missiles due to GMP, just to name a few.
When, if ever, are you going to address these problems? And I certainly hope the answer doesn't come from CCP Nozh. Missiles are already nerfed enough. ____________________ CCP: Catering to the cowards of a cold, harsh universe since November, 2006. |
Rip Minner
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Posted - 2009.06.18 01:41:00 -
[2]
Missils are fine there working as intended. If missils did not have any draw backs why would anyone use any other weapon system.
What you are calling problems are there intended side effects. |
Xianthar
STK Scientific The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.06.18 05:08:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Rip Minner Missils are fine there working as intended. If missils did not have any draw backs why would anyone use any other weapon system.
What you are calling problems are there intended side effects.
agreed accept for rockets, they royally suck in every way. |
Allen Ramses
Caldari Typo Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.18 05:19:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Rip Minner Missils are fine there working as intended. If missils did not have any draw backs why would anyone use any other weapon system.
What you are calling problems are there intended side effects.
If a medium sized weapon deals more DPS than a large sized weapon, there is something wrong. If a weapon is incapable of hitting the ship it is designed to combat, there is something wrong. If someone sees errors in the system as drawbacks, there is something wrong.
Grow up kid, and learn the difference between a drawback and a flaw. |
KustoMKilleR
Divine Retribution Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.06.18 05:48:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Allen Ramses Grow up kid, and learn the difference between a drawback and a flaw.
maybe you need to grow up and face the fact that the only flaw with missiles are in rockets because they do royally suck. all other missiles work FOR THEIR INTENDED PURPOSE. it is not the developers fault if you arent using missiles correctly. Shununununun....... --------------
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Allen Ramses
Caldari Typo Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.18 06:10:00 -
[6]
Originally by: KustoMKilleR
Originally by: Allen Ramses Grow up kid, and learn the difference between a drawback and a flaw.
only flaw with missiles are in rockets because they do royally suck
Why do rockets suck and light missiles don't? DPS isn't a valid answer, as DPS is higher than lights. Tracking is also not a valid answer, unless you acknowledge that GMP IV makes lights track better than rockets (which places the blame on GMP rather than rockets). The only valid answer is the fact that frigates rarely travel below 1500m/s, which makes the horrible velocity even worse.
Originally by: KustoMKilleR all other missiles work FOR THEIR INTENDED PURPOSE. it is not the developers fault if you arent using missiles correctly.
Tell me, is it the intended role for T2 heavies to deal more raw DPS than cruises, while having double the tracking ability? That's a weird intended role cruise missiles must have... ____________________ CCP: Catering to the cowards of a cold, harsh universe since November, 2006. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.06.18 08:07:00 -
[7]
Rockets: rubbish because of nasty fitting requirements, low base damage, necessity of web support which cannot always be provided because of the few midslots of frigates and the popularity of frigates as a solo ship and popularity of afterburners making a second web required.
Precisions: almost never worth using because they offer only a minimal increase in DPS over CN missiles, but with half the range.
Cruise. Has no role.
Citadel torps - horrible against moving capitals (a fix for this is in the pipeline though).
The others are okay I think. |
1600 RT
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Posted - 2009.06.18 11:02:00 -
[8]
-rockets yes need some love -light missile are fine the dps and the volley isnt bad for the range they can provide, also a assault missile caracal is deadly vs frigs. -heavy missile and heavy assault missiles are very powerful weapons. -cruise are nothing spectacular but not bad either, work just fine for mission and very good for pos bashing, they sux for sniping but they always did. -torps are a deadly close range weapon with the best unbonused dps of all the weapons and a decent range, need some support via web or painter but some drawback is needed. -citadel torps already got a big buff on the velocity and now they are alot harder to smartbomb, the might need a small explosion velocity buff but thats all. |
Relyen
Foundation Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.06.18 13:58:00 -
[9]
Overall I think missiles work fairly well. Rockets do suck royally.
But I should also mention that POS Missile Batteries could use some love as well. Considering that they are never used on any POS in 0.0 (atleast 99.9% of them), especially the POS that has bonuses to them, should be a good indication of how much they suck :P ________________________________
I am own. |
Ravenal
The Fated E.Y
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Posted - 2009.06.18 14:29:00 -
[10]
Whats wrong with missiles is rockets and balance issues between faction and t2 missiles. |
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Max Tux
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Posted - 2009.06.18 14:29:00 -
[11]
Heavies are fine
Ham's could do with a slight tweak ( not much damage advantage over Heavies) rockets need the explosion velocity fixing and maybe a 25% damage boost standards are fine IMO, they rn't meant to be high damage dealers (despite the grid..) assualts are also fine Torps are fine cruise need a bit of a damage boost, maybe in exchange for a range nerf?
not used citadels so can't comment
Most missiles are fine tbh
cruise and Ham's could do with a slight tweak
but its really only rockets that need a real look at
****
on a side note, why do turrets get 3 different sizes of medium / small / large with different stats / fitting, and missiles only get one choice? |
Valandril
Caldari Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2009.06.18 14:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Xianthar
Originally by: Rip Minner Missils are fine there working as intended. If missils did not have any draw backs why would anyone use any other weapon system.
What you are calling problems are there intended side effects.
agreed accept for rockets, they royally suck in every way.
I disagree, crow with jav rockets ftw. |
Draahk Chimera
Caldari Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.18 15:29:00 -
[13]
I fire a ball of 3 citadel torpedoes at a pos module after the pos itself is gone. 40 seconds later they hit and I did 700 damage. Next to me a moros or rev fire their guns at the same pos mod and hit for full 50k damage. How can this possibly be "working as intended"? Phoenix and citadel torpedoes takes equally long to train for as any other dread and still people laugh at you, much as the kid who comes to a roaming hac fleet in a t1 fitted caracal. My alliance actually has a reinbursement program for phoneix pilots buying some other dread skill.
I dont care about siege launchers II using your entire cpu, because I can use cruise instead, or a rokh even. I dont care about rockets having low dps, another ceptor is easy to train. But in the phoenix I'm stuck unless I train another race for 3-4 months.
Speaking of the phoenix, fix the bloody cpu/grid some bloody time. 3 years since dreads came into game and phoenix pilots still use 70% of the grid and 120% of the cpu available trying to fit with t2 modules. Let me explain it in small words since no one working at CCP headquarters seem to fly caldari: citadel launcers and capital shield booster uses LESS grid and MORE cpu then turrets and capital armor repairer. So for the love of the sky-ghost, give us LESS grid and MORE cpu. Thanks.
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leich
Amarr Knights of the Old Empire
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Posted - 2009.06.18 15:36:00 -
[14]
People shouldnt talk about missiles and DPS in the same sentance.
Missiles are good at Volley damage. Anything that gives them greater DPS is FAIL
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
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Posted - 2009.06.18 20:37:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Xianthar
Originally by: Rip Minner Missils are fine there working as intended. If missils did not have any draw backs why would anyone use any other weapon system.
What you are calling problems are there intended side effects.
agreed accept for rockets, they royally suck in every way.
I disagree, crow with jav rockets ftw.
Are you kidding? Crow with 3 x javelins will have 80% of its base speed, do you think that it's enough? It will get pawned even by assault-like blasteranis w/o speedmods.
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redstar8368
Caldari Age of Honour
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Posted - 2009.06.18 21:45:00 -
[16]
my personal feeling on missles being a caldari pilot is the same as for the caldari race its a fleet race first and formost and as sutch missile ships arnt built to oporate alone (in most cases) my corp has had significant sucsess using remot rep ravens with dedicated tp suport(caldary need a tp ship)but apart from that wepions that use no cap almost always hit and have resectable range as standard
although something i would love to see is all caldari missle ships is kestral style bounus |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente The NightClub
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Posted - 2009.06.18 21:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: leich People shouldnt talk about missiles and DPS in the same sentance.
Missiles are good at Volley damage. Anything that gives them greater DPS is FAIL
Greater DPS would come from faster rate of fire.
You object to being able to pump out a solid line of torpedoes?
[Me]****************** [Them] |
Gael Itrus
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Posted - 2009.06.18 23:49:00 -
[18]
Originally by: KustoMKilleR
Originally by: Allen Ramses Grow up kid, and learn the difference between a drawback and a flaw.
maybe you need to grow up and face the fact that the only flaw with missiles are in rockets because they do royally suck. all other missiles work FOR THEIR INTENDED PURPOSE. it is not the developers fault if you arent using missiles correctly.
Titan's speed tanking citadel torpedo's is a flaw in game mechanics. Armageddon's speed tanking Raven's is also a flaw in game mechanics.
The intended/stated purpose of the QR missile nerf was to maintain the balance between speed and missiles, for small ships. Pretty sure the plan went awry somewhere.
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Photus
Caldari Roll For Initiative
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Posted - 2009.06.18 23:53:00 -
[19]
As a missile *****, I have to say that the only real adjustment that anything needs are cruise missiles. Their range is incredible, but useless; if you fire at something that far away, it gives plenty of time for the target to move. Give them a faster velocity. It just goes to show you that you shouldn't kneel down in front of the third rail, grab it with both hands, and **** on it from three feet away. |
Jay T
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Posted - 2009.06.19 00:15:00 -
[20]
The thing about missiles is there 100% reliable & this itself is worth tradeoff of some of the penalties.
Some missile stats may need tweaking abit inorder to suite it's purpose more effectively though. (rockets/precisons)
The only other benificial idea to missiles would be to make non-guided missiles have alot faster velocity while trading off flight time. This would be good for the sake hitting the target faster while also looking like a non-guided missile in the process.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr Corp 1 Allstars
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Posted - 2009.06.19 00:31:00 -
[21]
Only beef I have is rockets. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Allen Ramses
Caldari Typo Corp
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Posted - 2009.06.19 00:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jay T The thing about missiles is there 100% reliable & this itself is worth tradeoff of some of the penalties.
They were 100% reliable back in the days of cruise kessies, when missiles didn't have a tracking formula. They are hardly so today. Furthermore, they already have lower DPS than their turret counterparts. But that is neither here nor there; what I am asking of CCP is to fix the fundamental flaws, not reduce the penalties. ____________________ CCP: Catering to the cowards of a cold, harsh universe since November, 2006. |
Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.20 16:33:00 -
[23]
Anyone that says missiles are fine is basically claiming cruise and rockets are fine which is just troling.
Fact: CCP nerfed Cruise missiles right out of pvp, barring some lolPOS shoots. They used to have a small niche as ranged anti-support, no more. How many Cruise Ravens do you see in pvp gangs now, hmmm? 0.
Oh well, there goes HALF of our BS sized weaponry nerfed into uselessness.
Long/extreme range missile sniping was already niche as hell and fairly loltastic. But at least the dps would actually be there assuming the tard was asleep, afk, didnt warp out or get killed before your volleys got there.
Now, any sort of ranged missile sniping is just plain stupid and unused. Why? Aside from the lolflightime, because of the overnerfed expl radius and expl velocity values which require everything to be tackled and/or multi painted and at the VERY least use up all your rig slots (read: tank) in order to achieve some semblance of applied dps.
Guess what, that vaunted range thing people pimp means nothing when you're trying to apply that dps outside of web and painter range.
Rockets are also still just ridiculous and it makes Khanid ships useless.
So yeah, missiles suck worse now than they have since launch. |
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