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rValdez5987
Amarr Imperial Guard.
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Posted - 2009.06.18 01:34:00 -
[1]
This is not a politics thread.
Now that the morons are gone, let us get down to business.
Dollars long term value troubling
Add that article to the fact that the United States national debt was nearly 100% of GDP back in 2007, with true national debt estimated at 187%, consumer debt was 101% in 2007 as well.
The United States is now faced with an interesting situation. We all know how much money has been spent recently, on top of promised funds for entitlement programs, along with decreased tax revenue, and failing state finances.
According to the International Monetary Fund, the United States risks insolvency due to ballooning debt and reduced tax revenue as well as foreign investors becoming uncomfortable with their dollar cash reserves. It is said that countries who have greater then 60% of their debt financed by foreign countries are at "increased risk" of insolvency. As of 2007, 64% of our debt was financed by foreign countries.
Currently everything is up in the air. That much is certain, however I can say this.
1st Quarter of 2010. That's the date. A report will come out that could very well decide the financial fate of the United States.
In a world in financial turmoil, where is your money safe? I'm personally converting my savings to an as of yet undecided currency/gold.
(Note: This is not a fearmongering post. You don't need to be scared of anything. However you do need to see that we are headed for trouble, and you need to make the right choices to be prepared)
TL;DR - The United States is in Big Trouble, how are you safe guarding yourselves? |
Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2009.06.18 01:45:00 -
[2]
I have no money so I have nothing to worry about. Hurray for poverty. In before Ralara. |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.06.18 01:48:00 -
[3]
I withdrew all my invested monies years ago and turned them into bearer bonds after seeing what dircetion unbridled global capitalism was taking the worlds economys. Unless I live to like 138 I seriously doubt I'll go broke regardless of the overall financial situation. And no I won't tell you were I keep them though i will add that the people tasked to guarding them are quite proficient.
tl;dr Moral: Don't live your life like some emo hedonistic moviestar/ceo and when the bad times come around you will emerge without so much as a scratch on your bottom line. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.06.18 03:11:00 -
[4]
Whgat do you mean, "the US risks insolvency" ? The US has been insolvent for at least 2, maybe even three years now, and has been keeping it all afloat on the wings of the "too big to fail" mantra. Well... not really too big to fail, just too big to fail without some real nasty consequences.
Personally, I fully expect the USD to start a series of semi-controlled crashes with small recoveries, followed by smaller, time-delayed crashes of most other major currencies. Right now, the only "currency" I'd bother stockpiling would be precious metals and energy company stocks (preferably renewable energy producers and power distribution companies).
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.06.18 07:12:00 -
[5]
I'm hoping the entire world goes to hell, world war 8 breaks out, everyone forgets where the nuclear missile codes are, and we all start throwing poop at each other.
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.06.18 08:25:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Awesome Possum I'm hoping the entire world goes to hell, world war 8 breaks out, everyone forgets where the nuclear missile codes are, and we all start throwing poop at each other.
Well we have two of those four already so halfway there!
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Jin Nib
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Posted - 2009.06.18 08:37:00 -
[7]
On the plus side your country now owns a couple of failing auto producers and some sketchy banks. That's ... uh... well that's something. It could even help keep the country solvent right? Right?
The United States does have some strong factors going for it, however it looks like the current White House is set on nerfing them all. The states still has all the assets it had before, it has the people, the motivation, and the properties. What it lacks are confidence and capital.
As un-glorious as it may seem, the current government should be paring down the debt, lowering taxes for small businesses, or giving them incentives, and perhaps start buying back it's currency. I don't think any of this is going to happen, I have doubts it's even possible given the hole it's set on digging for the country. Given its current direction you may have to wait it out to next election before the US starts real recovery.
For those who live there they might want to consider property investments now that the prices are more reasonable they should stay stable and should show a decent margin in 5 or so years. Also you'll end up owning an actual something should things go to hell entirely (consider farm properties as well). Or invest in the emerging economies like China (which looks like a bubble to me, but it should last long enough) or India (which seems more capable of sustaining itself). Another option is Canada which has proven remarkably stable in the collapse, but we are tied to the State's fortunes in a lot of ways (your dollar tanking is really not good for us). Also Canada though stable, may not show huge returns.
On a more local front I would think that small businesses should be better off though not necessarily stable. Played right this could really be a time of tremendous potential growth in the US I think. Unfortunately some of that play is in the governments hands and I don't think it will serve you too well.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.06.18 11:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: rValdez5987 This is not a politics thread.
Now that the morons are gone, let us get down to business.
Dollars long term value troubling
Add that article to the fact that the United States national debt was nearly 100% of GDP back in 2007, with true national debt estimated at 187%, consumer debt was 101% in 2007 as well.
The United States is now faced with an interesting situation. We all know how much money has been spent recently, on top of promised funds for entitlement programs, along with decreased tax revenue, and failing state finances.
According to the International Monetary Fund, the United States risks insolvency due to ballooning debt and reduced tax revenue as well as foreign investors becoming uncomfortable with their dollar cash reserves. It is said that countries who have greater then 60% of their debt financed by foreign countries are at "increased risk" of insolvency. As of 2007, 64% of our debt was financed by foreign countries.
Currently everything is up in the air. That much is certain, however I can say this.
1st Quarter of 2010. That's the date. A report will come out that could very well decide the financial fate of the United States.
In a world in financial turmoil, where is your money safe? I'm personally converting my savings to an as of yet undecided currency/gold.
(Note: This is not a fearmongering post. You don't need to be scared of anything. However you do need to see that we are headed for trouble, and you need to make the right choices to be prepared)
TL;DR - The United States is in Big Trouble, how are you safe guarding yourselves?
Here's hoping the value of my debt tanks like you say! |
Vogue
The Burned Church
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Posted - 2009.06.18 12:33:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Vogue on 18/06/2009 12:38:09 Edited by: Vogue on 18/06/2009 12:33:49 What is most fundamental is the 'petrodollar'. In that oil and other strategic energy supplies are traded in dollars.
Quote from wikipedia:-
Most oil sales throughout the world are denominated in United States dollars (USD).[1] According to proponents of the petrodollar warfare hypothesis, because most countries rely on oil imports, they are forced to maintain large stockpiles of dollars in order to continue imports. This causes demand for USDs to remain high, regardless of economic conditions in the United States. This in turn allegedly allows the US government to gain revenues through seignorage and by issuing bonds at lower interest rates than they otherwise would be able to. As a result the U.S. government can run higher budget deficits at a more sustainable level than can most other countries.
Petrodollar
This was summed up in 1971 by the then US Secretary of the Treasury, John Connolly told his European counterparts: the dollar is our currency but your problem.
However nowadays there is a vicious circle for the dollar where China, Japan and others buy US bonds and currency so US consumers have more money to buy electrical consumer goods from China, Japan, etc. This is a major catalyst for the US deficit and national debt. China in particular has ú2 trillion ($2000 billion) of mostly US bonds and currency and NO debt. Because of this USA cant not at all dictate any economic policy to China.
Beyond Good And Evil |
annoing
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2009.06.18 14:45:00 -
[10]
Remembering, of course, that none of the 'money' you talk about actually exists. You may have a $ or a ú in your pocket, but in reality, its worthless. Always has been.
'Money' is a promisary note in effect. In the Uk it says "I promise to pay the bearer" on every note. The idea being that the 'note' was set against an equal value in gold. However, if I take that note to the Bank of England and ask for my notes value in the gold I was promised, i'd get nothing. The same is true of coins and has been, in the UK at least, true since WW1. Coins used to be made with real value ... as in real silver or gold was used in the manufactuer. The Uk stopped it for most coins 1919/1920 and continued with special coins (guineas etc) up until the 60's. The economy in the Uk, USA, Europe .... well everywhere really, is based upon smoke and mirrors. The hand is faster than the eye and all that. When the IMF or WBO give money to countries they dont actually give money. They give goods and services to the value of that money or they clear debts etc with that 'money'. So a bank is being paid with a fictitional idea after loaning a fictitional idea to someone else. So, in a nutshell, the USA cant/wont become insolvant. As long as it has a manufactuering base, as long as it has assets, oil etc it will always be the USA. The same is true of every country you can think of in the Western World.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.06.18 15:50:00 -
[11]
Originally by: annoing So, in a nutshell, the USA cant/wont become insolvant. As long as it has a manufactuering base, as long as it has assets, oil etc it will always be the USA. The same is true of every country you can think of in the Western World.
What it can do though is have such a debt burden that it needs to create ever larger amounts of new money.
Which leads to (hyper)inflation. |
Drunk Driver
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.06.18 16:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: rValdez5987
TL;DR - The United States is in Big Trouble, how are you safe guarding yourselves?
Potatoes dude, potatoes!
During the giant financial disaster you're pretending not to predict I'll eat them and sell them.
I'll have food and money.
Women will flock to me for romance because I'll be the potato king!
Here's a link for those of you that don't know about potatoes so you can prepare yourselves with your own potato disaster plan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato
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rValdez5987
Amarr Imperial Guard.
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Posted - 2009.06.18 20:07:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Akita T Whgat do you mean, "the US risks insolvency" ? The US has been insolvent for at least 2, maybe even three years now, and has been keeping it all afloat on the wings of the "too big to fail" mantra. Well... not really too big to fail, just too big to fail without some real nasty consequences.
Personally, I fully expect the USD to start a series of semi-controlled crashes with small recoveries, followed by smaller, time-delayed crashes of most other major currencies. Right now, the only "currency" I'd bother stockpiling would be precious metals and energy company stocks (preferably renewable energy producers and power distribution companies).
Of course, but what I'm saying is that the world seems to finally be catching on and becoming unconfortable continuing to lend us money.
It's like a rich kid going to med school. at first the parents give him some extra money thinking he uses it to go to seminars and for books, but eventually they start to suspect him of using it for beer and hookers.
naturally his parents will rethink lending him money as their suspicions are confirmed by his face in the paper for beating up said hooker.
the united states is the rich kid. I'll let you figure out who is parents are, and whos the hooker. |
rValdez5987
Amarr Imperial Guard.
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Posted - 2009.06.18 20:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Drunk Driver
Originally by: rValdez5987
TL;DR - The United States is in Big Trouble, how are you safe guarding yourselves?
Potatoes dude, potatoes!
During the giant financial disaster you're pretending not to predict I'll eat them and sell them.
I'll have food and money.
Women will flock to me for romance because I'll be the potato king!
Here's a link for those of you that don't know about potatoes so you can prepare yourselves with your own potato disaster plan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato
I eat potatos everyday. If you can grow some cheaper then me I'll buy them from you.
Hey we should start our own potato company, or perhaps form our own potato country, with potatos on the flag, and hot female senators.
oh ohhh ohhh and.....
ill stop.
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Reiisha
Evolution KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.06.18 21:52:00 -
[15]
The thing is that Iran and some other Middle-Eastern nations are thinking of switching to the Euro for their oil sales.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
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Xen Gin
Solar Excavations Ultd. Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.18 22:13:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Reiisha The thing is that Iran and some other Middle-Eastern nations are thinking of switching to the Euro for their oil sales.
Didn't Iraq try this in 2003?
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Kessiaan
Minmatar MicroFunks
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Posted - 2009.06.18 22:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: rValdez5987 Of course, but what I'm saying is that the world seems to finally be catching on and becoming unconfortable continuing to lend us money.
It's like a rich kid going to med school. at first the parents give him some extra money thinking he uses it to go to seminars and for books, but eventually they start to suspect him of using it for beer and hookers.
naturally his parents will rethink lending him money as their suspicions are confirmed by his face in the paper for beating up said hooker.
the united states is the rich kid. I'll let you figure out who is parents are, and whos the hooker.
I always figured we were more like the big bully kid that goes around an extorts everyone's lunch money. But now we're fat, lazy, and out of shape and nobody wants to pay up anymore. |
Glarion Garnier
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.06.19 00:25:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Glarion Garnier on 19/06/2009 00:25:56
Originally by: Malcanis
Here's hoping the value of my debt tanks like you say!
Check that out mate. It's a video by Don Harrold. Theme beeing: you are too small to succeed. Don is a quite clever guy. Usually when he says something it's worth listeting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4EmAOW8E00&feature=channel_page |
jason hill
Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.19 00:28:00 -
[19]
an interesting fact ... airbus sold a load of planes at the french airshow and boeing sold none this year ... and saudi arabia have just bought (or are in the process) of buying another fleet of eurofighters and the americans sold none. so one wonders whats going on with the us manufacturing base ..is this the death knell of us manufacturing
its an interesting thought.. is the us manufacturing base on its knees ? and does the rest of the world know something that the peeps in the us dont ?
on a personal note i think over the eurofighter v the raptor ...the raptor comes out best .and boeing v airbus ...hmm ive flown on both and prefer boeing... its an intersting thought that even after all thats happend over the last couple of months /years . what with the current financial crisis and all ,,that the us ...has essentialy had its chips ? ps im not america bashing |
Brea Lafail
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Posted - 2009.06.19 04:32:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Glarion Garnier http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4EmAOW8E00&feature=channel_page
I have come to the conclusion that that man is an idiot. In before Ralara. |
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Reiisha
Evolution KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.06.19 09:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Xen Gin
Originally by: Reiisha The thing is that Iran and some other Middle-Eastern nations are thinking of switching to the Euro for their oil sales.
Didn't Iraq try this in 2003?
Bingo. |
rValdez5987
Amarr Imperial Guard.
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Posted - 2009.06.20 05:53:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Reiisha
Originally by: Xen Gin
Originally by: Reiisha The thing is that Iran and some other Middle-Eastern nations are thinking of switching to the Euro for their oil sales.
Didn't Iraq try this in 2003?
Bingo.
Ding Ding we have a winner.
In other news it turns out we are making the same mistakes as we did in the 1920's and evidentally we plan on continuing to make the same mistakes...
you know... the same mistakes that almost destroyed the rest of the worlds economies back in the 1920s.... only this time the rest of the world won't silently let us do it.
I hope........ |
Vash Reckless
Caldari Anaheim Industrial Systems
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Posted - 2009.06.21 06:24:00 -
[23]
If I remember right, there is something in the declaration of independence that goes something like this, "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
and also as Thomas Jefferson put it, "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ... And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." The Reckless Humanoid Typhoon |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.06.21 07:26:00 -
[24]
Originally by: rValdez5987 the same mistakes that almost destroyed the rest of the worlds economies back in the 1920s.... only this time the rest of the world won't silently let us do it
You are quite correct. This time, they will protest ...of course, to absolutely no effect whatsoever
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.21 07:41:00 -
[25]
Originally by: jason hill an interesting fact ... airbus sold a load of planes at the french airshow and boeing sold none this year ... and saudi arabia have just bought (or are in the process) of buying another fleet of eurofighters and the americans sold none. so one wonders whats going on with the us manufacturing base ..is this the death knell of us manufacturing
Re: Boeing vs. Airbus: who cares about one airshow, it's just a publicity thing. Both companies are in fine shape, and Boeing is selling plenty of new planes.
Re: Eurofighter sales: only because the US will (wisely) not sell the F-22. This is in no way a sign of decline in US industry, the plane itself absolutely dominates anything else on the market. If export sales of the F-22 were allowed, the Eurofighter's market would instantly disappear. -----------
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Reiisha
Evolution KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.06.21 11:24:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: jason hill an interesting fact ... airbus sold a load of planes at the french airshow and boeing sold none this year ... and saudi arabia have just bought (or are in the process) of buying another fleet of eurofighters and the americans sold none. so one wonders whats going on with the us manufacturing base ..is this the death knell of us manufacturing
Re: Boeing vs. Airbus: who cares about one airshow, it's just a publicity thing. Both companies are in fine shape, and Boeing is selling plenty of new planes.
Re: Eurofighter sales: only because the US will (wisely) not sell the F-22. This is in no way a sign of decline in US industry, the plane itself absolutely dominates anything else on the market. If export sales of the F-22 were allowed, the Eurofighter's market would instantly disappear.
That's an assumption...
Both planes have their strong points. F22 is stealthy, but the eurofighter would destroy it in a 1on1 dogfight because it's more manouverable (a lot more). Not selling the F22 is a purely military decision - In actuality, THEY are not buying eurofighters just as much as they're not selling f22's. |
Vash Reckless
Caldari Anaheim Industrial Systems
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Posted - 2009.06.21 17:32:00 -
[27]
F22 is being replaced by the F37 within the next 2 years, which has several different designs. Although we are getting a bit off topic now. The Reckless Humanoid Typhoon |
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2009.06.21 20:05:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Reiisha
Originally by: Xen Gin
Originally by: Reiisha The thing is that Iran and some other Middle-Eastern nations are thinking of switching to the Euro for their oil sales.
Didn't Iraq try this in 2003?
Bingo.
And the Iran in 2007 ...
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.21 21:12:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 21/06/2009 21:13:28 The dollar is fine and like all currencies can have some trouble along the way. However, the current administration in Washington D.C. is hellbent on deficit spending and wants to put its "hope and change" policies on massive deficit spending. Their current plans are to at least triple the entire deficit of the USA in the next 10 years. That is a best case scenario. That is before another trillion to three trillion in socialized healthcare. For as long as the government in the US wants to print money to buy things it can not afford on a scale never before done in history - the value of the dollar will go down, and interest rates and inflation will go up.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.06.21 21:22:00 -
[30]
Who gives a crap about dog fights when you can also launch your missiles from distance and gtfo.
And to the one advising to invest in chinse stuff, i wouldnt do that. The only reason they are fast growing economies is because we buy their stuff. When we (europe or us) gets problems, the only thing collapsing faster than us economy will be the chinese economy. |
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