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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 18 post(s) |
Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
10
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Posted - 2012.05.17 17:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
What is CCPs opinion on alliances actively interfering with the training of other alliances on the test server? We're having Hydra Reloaded actively locate and scan the wormholes we're trying to run practices in. |
sevyn nine
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
6
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Posted - 2012.05.17 20:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP probably won't do anything, and even if they do, Hydra can just start scanning with a neutral alt.
And what is this "practice" thing you speak of? Can we practice with you? |
Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
12
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Posted - 2012.05.17 20:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
They're already doing it with a neutral alt. One option would be to ban from the test server any characters who interfere with other people's activities. |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
433
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Posted - 2012.05.18 05:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Spying and all has been done since AT1. So why start bitching about it now?
If CCP didn't interfere sofar then why would they now?
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Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
10
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Posted - 2012.05.18 11:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
They didn't interfere with thrown matches and manipulation so far either, but they say they will now. I'm not expecting anything, but maybe... |
Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
109
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Posted - 2012.05.18 11:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
This is quite different from thrown matches. If they actually interfere with your testing (with more than attempts at passive observation) then they should get banned but I have a hard time believing that passive observation should be disallowed. |
Humphrey Goff
Trotters Independent Trading
1
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Posted - 2012.05.18 12:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Raivi wrote:This is quite different from thrown matches. If they actually interfere with your testing (with more than attempts at passive observation) then they should get banned but I have a hard time believing that passive observation should be disallowed.
Is that based on what would be possible to enforce or are you rating the different kinds of metagaming? |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
436
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Posted - 2012.05.18 13:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Metagaming is part of EVE.
It's not asif your own corporation / alliance has never metagamed before.
Instead of crying you could also use it to your advantage.
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Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
110
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Posted - 2012.05.18 14:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Humphrey Goff wrote:Raivi wrote:This is quite different from thrown matches. If they actually interfere with your testing (with more than attempts at passive observation) then they should get banned but I have a hard time believing that passive observation should be disallowed. Is that based on what would be possible to enforce or are you rating the different kinds of metagaming?
My interpretation of the rules is that metagaming is fine but B teams lead to fewer groups getting into the limited space and to boring thrown matches so they're out.
I'm not official in any way though so if CCP's view is different they can let us know.
"Metagaming" is such a nebulous term that it approaches uselessness anyways. Watching the previous matches to look for patterns is the most effective use of metagaming in the history of the tournament but nobody is talking about putting the tournament on a one month tape delay to prevent that. |
Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
10
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Posted - 2012.05.18 14:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
This kind of metagaming leads to fewer unique/unusual/interesting setups, and to more good teams dropping out early because Hydra supplied their (weaker) opponents with the setup and the counter-setup.
Watching previous matches doesn't do that. Also, watching previous matches is something all teams can and should do. Spying (for the alliance tournament, not in general), on the other hand, is an underhanded tactic that I refuse to engage in. Yes, laugh at my e-honor and all that. The tournament is supposed to be a measurement of skill, at least somewhat independent of the usual in-game shenanigans.
Again, though, I'm not that worried, but I would like to know CCP's stance on it. |
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Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
112
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Posted - 2012.05.18 14:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
But what if spying in general overlaps with the tournament? I mean I put my alt HaartSp into Hydra so I could set up Vindicator hotdrops but if they just hand me all their tournament secrets what am I to do? |
Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
112
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Posted - 2012.05.18 14:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
I should probably clarify my last post....
I'm talking about hotdrops against Vindicators, not hotdrops using Vindicators. However those are cool too. |
Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
10
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Posted - 2012.05.18 15:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
If you can't trust your own pilots then there's nothing anyone can do to help you. |
Bladen Kerst
Aperture Harmonics K162
0
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Posted - 2012.05.19 01:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
EvE is not chess. Instead of two players playing by the same rules you have 20000, each one with their own personal set of rules, most of them part of a bigger organized group . Which means EvE is a total mess, it can never be fair by definition, pretty much like life itself. The closest you can get it to being fair if we all adopt the ultimate universal rule: you do whatver you think is necessary as long as you are ready to accept the consequences of your actions. |
Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
10
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Posted - 2012.05.19 11:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
The alliance tournament is not EVE. |
Lorren Canada
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
227
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Posted - 2012.05.20 00:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Harden the fuck up and deal with it. Fucking nerd |
Fish Brain
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.05.20 11:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Faffywaffy wrote:This kind of metagaming leads to fewer unique/unusual/interesting setups, and to more good teams dropping out early because Hydra supplied their (weaker) opponents with the setup and the counter-setup.
To be fair, you did bring the exact PL Legion team 3 times in a row last year. Also the "good teams" that dropped early were all your fault (-A and, Raiden in the group stage, PL in the 1st round of the finals).
CO2 didn't make it through because they got out-metagamed.
VOLTRON lost to RAZOR late in the quater-finals because a certain kite Drake with all the links decided to burn towards pulse Absos.
So that just leaves out R0nin who didn't go through after losing 2 of their matches in the group stages.
I don't see which weaker alliance HYDRA supplied setups/counter-setups to last year, because facts say that everyone that made it to the semis, got there on their own merits. One even might think that you coming up vs a Minnie rush team in the semis after fielding the same (copied) setup all day might have to do more with common sense rather than spying. Anyway, to me you just come up a little bit hypocritical with that statement I quoted.
Everyone that participates in the AT has to deal with spies, be it Cov Ops observers, inhouse spies that take forum dumps etc. and deal with it as best as they can. Look at PL, they had all their AT setups posted to the public, came up with something that wasn't leaked and you of all teams beat them.
I say keep calm and carry on Faffy. I'm sure you'll do fine this tournament.
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Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
11
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Posted - 2012.05.20 21:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Fish Brain wrote:Everyone that participates in the AT has to deal with spies You're taking that as a fact of life, whereas I think the effects of this kind of metagaming can be decreased, even with very little effort on CCP's part.
Fish Brain wrote:Look at PL, they had all their AT setups posted to the public, came up with something that wasn't leaked and you of all teams beat them. With their own setup. I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that's a good thing?? I would rather PL (and everyone else) bring their best setups than be forced to bring inferior ones because all the good ones have been leaked.
Fish Brain wrote:I say keep calm and carry on Faffy. I'm sure you'll do fine this tournament. I am, and I plan to. |
Lazarus Telraven
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
8
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Posted - 2012.05.22 21:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
I have to agree with Raivi here in that if the guy watching you isnt interfering with you in anyway then he isnt really doing anyhting wrong. In fact i know the Goon practice has been spied on and we dont really care because so far the spy has probally seen 30+ different ship setups so they have no clue what we will actually field.
Was the neutral alt in a covops or a T1 Frigate? The reason i ask is because maybe they decloaked to be sure that you saw them and would then not get practice done etc.
There are other ways to hide your practice that would take a little more/less effort depending on how you classify it, like practicing in the deepest part of drone regions that is 30-40+ jumps from highsec practice there for a day and then for the next practice switch to a different system on the opposite side of eve.
Or you just dont care and practice even though you know you are being spied on and test setups you know you arent going to use just to confuse the spy.
The no B team rule is meant to improve the tournament but the metagame is a large part of EVE and I personally do not see it going away. |
Okinata
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.05.25 07:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
What do you want, a private server to play on? Information about the account owners to confirm they have a toon in Hydra? Hydra thrown out of AT X?
If they are not shooting you (and only because, as I understand it, you can only ffa pvp in designated areas on sisi) then grow a pair and stop sounding like a whiny care bear.
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Zleon Leigh
150
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Posted - 2012.05.26 02:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Okinata wrote:
If they are not shooting you (and only because, as I understand it, you can only ffa pvp in designated areas on sisi) then grow a pair and stop sounding like a whiny care bear.
You can petition non-consensual pvp right? So why even use a covert - spy, get killed, petition, get player kicked off Sisi, win.
Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital.
CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day |
Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
8
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Posted - 2012.05.26 02:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
Faffywaffy wrote:What is CCPs opinion on alliances actively interfering with the training of other alliances on the test server? We're having Hydra Reloaded actively locate and scan the wormholes we're trying to run practices in.
You made a decision to train in a worm hole. That was your decision and now you must suffer the consequences for that decision. Wait, I am not Sreegs. The meta is fine so long as their is no meta in your meta as you meta. Meta. |
Kaleesa
Disconnected. Choke Point
2
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Posted - 2012.05.26 03:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Faffywaffy wrote:What is CCPs opinion on alliances actively interfering with the training of other alliances on the test server? We're having Hydra Reloaded actively locate and scan the wormholes we're trying to run practices in.
Cmon bro you already know CCP are not gonna stop this. Would the tourney be better if ppl didn't spy and meta game? Absolutely, then we'd see truly fair matchups, but eve's never been that way. Also, life isn't fair either in case you were wondering. I look forward to seeing DS in the tourney though, you guys are always fun to watch. |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
243
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Posted - 2012.05.26 05:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
Step 1. Move into wormhole system with POS and scanners Step 2. Cycle the kspace exit Step 3. Profit $$ |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1427
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Posted - 2012.05.26 09:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
Faffywaffy wrote:What is CCPs opinion on alliances actively interfering with the training of other alliances on the test server? We're having Hydra Reloaded actively locate and scan the wormholes we're trying to run practices in.
Spying is part of both EVE and the alliance tournament. I don't see us sticking our noses in this at all unless they're interfering. If they interfere they will all be banned. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
514
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Posted - 2012.05.26 10:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
And then it matters ofcourse who does the spying / interfering and who get's spied upon / interfered with.
The latests rulings make very clear that there are differences between the teams and some get tackled / ignored harder than others.
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1427
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Posted - 2012.05.26 10:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:And then it matters ofcourse who does the spying / interfering and who get's spied upon / interfered with.
The latests rulings make very clear that there are differences between the teams and some get tackled / ignored harder than others.
Explain. Do a good job please. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
26
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Posted - 2012.05.26 10:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Faffywaffy wrote:What is CCPs opinion on alliances actively interfering with the training of other alliances on the test server? We're having Hydra Reloaded actively locate and scan the wormholes we're trying to run practices in. Spying is part of both EVE and the alliance tournament. I don't see us sticking our noses in this at all unless they're interfering. If they interfere they will all be banned.
Ok, thank you. |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
521
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Posted - 2012.05.26 10:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: Explain. Do a good job please.
Ok, let's get banned then for breaking ToS 1.
You Sir,break rules whenever it pleases you. You post conversations or snipets of a conversation between player and GM and keep the thread locked making the whole discussion one sided. YOUR side ofcourse being the only one that matters.
The blatant favouritism is shown by the fact that Hydra and Outbreak are kicked from ATX whereas PL can continue. The situation might have a different taste to it but we still can speak about A and B teams, Yet Hydra and Outbreak get stomped harder. How befitting to call in the old cows from the well which is called AT9. Not one of you has even bothered to communicate after even several mails / petitions of them and just assumed and took action. Because it was easier.
So go ahead, slap me down with your rules and ban me because I am implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.
That you are narrowminded and vindictive you already proved. No worries to look worse then you already do. I also know there is no chance to petition this with IA because conveniently enough IA has nothing to do with forum moderation.
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1427
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Posted - 2012.05.26 10:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: Explain. Do a good job please.
Ok, let's get banned then for breaking ToS 1. You Sir,break rules whenever it pleases you. You post conversations or snipets of a conversation between player and GM and keep the thread locked making the whole discussion one sided. YOUR side ofcourse being the only one that matters. The blatant favouritism is shown by the fact that Hydra and Outbreak are kicked from ATX whereas PL can continue. The situation might have a different taste to it but we still can speak about A and B teams, Yet Hydra and Outbreak get stomped harder. How befitting to call in the old cows from the well which is called AT9. Not one of you has even bothered to communicate after even several mails / petitions of them and just assumed and took action. Because it was easier. So go ahead, slap me down with your rules and ban me because I am implying favoritism by a CCP Employee. That you are narrowminded and vindictive you already proved. No worries to look worse then you already do. I also know there is no chance to petition this with IA because conveniently enough IA has nothing to do with forum moderation.
I didn't post the logs. A player did. That means I get to repost them to give context. Even if the player hadn't we are STILL well within our right to do so.
I think I've explained the Hydra thing sufficiently and if "We will not discuss the issue further" wasn't clear enough for you on that I'll say um.... we will not discuss the issue further.
You're not implying anything. You appear aware at least that these posts shouldn't exist on the forum because you know that if you have an allegation to make IA is the one and only place to make it but it seems forum suicide by posting is what you're going for. IA has plenty to do with misconduct whether it come in the form of moderation or not. I encourage you to contact them rather than spewing all over every thread in the alliance tournament subforum. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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