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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 18 post(s) |
Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
10
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Posted - 2012.05.17 17:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
What is CCPs opinion on alliances actively interfering with the training of other alliances on the test server? We're having Hydra Reloaded actively locate and scan the wormholes we're trying to run practices in. |
sevyn nine
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
6
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Posted - 2012.05.17 20:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP probably won't do anything, and even if they do, Hydra can just start scanning with a neutral alt.
And what is this "practice" thing you speak of? Can we practice with you? |
Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
12
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Posted - 2012.05.17 20:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
They're already doing it with a neutral alt. One option would be to ban from the test server any characters who interfere with other people's activities. |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
433
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Posted - 2012.05.18 05:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Spying and all has been done since AT1. So why start bitching about it now?
If CCP didn't interfere sofar then why would they now?
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Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
10
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Posted - 2012.05.18 11:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
They didn't interfere with thrown matches and manipulation so far either, but they say they will now. I'm not expecting anything, but maybe... |
Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
109
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Posted - 2012.05.18 11:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
This is quite different from thrown matches. If they actually interfere with your testing (with more than attempts at passive observation) then they should get banned but I have a hard time believing that passive observation should be disallowed. |
Humphrey Goff
Trotters Independent Trading
1
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Posted - 2012.05.18 12:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Raivi wrote:This is quite different from thrown matches. If they actually interfere with your testing (with more than attempts at passive observation) then they should get banned but I have a hard time believing that passive observation should be disallowed.
Is that based on what would be possible to enforce or are you rating the different kinds of metagaming? |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
436
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Posted - 2012.05.18 13:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Metagaming is part of EVE.
It's not asif your own corporation / alliance has never metagamed before.
Instead of crying you could also use it to your advantage.
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Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
110
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Posted - 2012.05.18 14:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Humphrey Goff wrote:Raivi wrote:This is quite different from thrown matches. If they actually interfere with your testing (with more than attempts at passive observation) then they should get banned but I have a hard time believing that passive observation should be disallowed. Is that based on what would be possible to enforce or are you rating the different kinds of metagaming?
My interpretation of the rules is that metagaming is fine but B teams lead to fewer groups getting into the limited space and to boring thrown matches so they're out.
I'm not official in any way though so if CCP's view is different they can let us know.
"Metagaming" is such a nebulous term that it approaches uselessness anyways. Watching the previous matches to look for patterns is the most effective use of metagaming in the history of the tournament but nobody is talking about putting the tournament on a one month tape delay to prevent that. |
Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 14:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
This kind of metagaming leads to fewer unique/unusual/interesting setups, and to more good teams dropping out early because Hydra supplied their (weaker) opponents with the setup and the counter-setup.
Watching previous matches doesn't do that. Also, watching previous matches is something all teams can and should do. Spying (for the alliance tournament, not in general), on the other hand, is an underhanded tactic that I refuse to engage in. Yes, laugh at my e-honor and all that. The tournament is supposed to be a measurement of skill, at least somewhat independent of the usual in-game shenanigans.
Again, though, I'm not that worried, but I would like to know CCP's stance on it. |
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Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
112
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Posted - 2012.05.18 14:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
But what if spying in general overlaps with the tournament? I mean I put my alt HaartSp into Hydra so I could set up Vindicator hotdrops but if they just hand me all their tournament secrets what am I to do? |
Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
112
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Posted - 2012.05.18 14:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
I should probably clarify my last post....
I'm talking about hotdrops against Vindicators, not hotdrops using Vindicators. However those are cool too. |
Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
10
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Posted - 2012.05.18 15:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
If you can't trust your own pilots then there's nothing anyone can do to help you. |
Bladen Kerst
Aperture Harmonics K162
0
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Posted - 2012.05.19 01:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
EvE is not chess. Instead of two players playing by the same rules you have 20000, each one with their own personal set of rules, most of them part of a bigger organized group . Which means EvE is a total mess, it can never be fair by definition, pretty much like life itself. The closest you can get it to being fair if we all adopt the ultimate universal rule: you do whatver you think is necessary as long as you are ready to accept the consequences of your actions. |
Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
10
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Posted - 2012.05.19 11:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
The alliance tournament is not EVE. |
Lorren Canada
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
227
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Posted - 2012.05.20 00:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Harden the fuck up and deal with it. Fucking nerd |
Fish Brain
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.05.20 11:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Faffywaffy wrote:This kind of metagaming leads to fewer unique/unusual/interesting setups, and to more good teams dropping out early because Hydra supplied their (weaker) opponents with the setup and the counter-setup.
To be fair, you did bring the exact PL Legion team 3 times in a row last year. Also the "good teams" that dropped early were all your fault (-A and, Raiden in the group stage, PL in the 1st round of the finals).
CO2 didn't make it through because they got out-metagamed.
VOLTRON lost to RAZOR late in the quater-finals because a certain kite Drake with all the links decided to burn towards pulse Absos.
So that just leaves out R0nin who didn't go through after losing 2 of their matches in the group stages.
I don't see which weaker alliance HYDRA supplied setups/counter-setups to last year, because facts say that everyone that made it to the semis, got there on their own merits. One even might think that you coming up vs a Minnie rush team in the semis after fielding the same (copied) setup all day might have to do more with common sense rather than spying. Anyway, to me you just come up a little bit hypocritical with that statement I quoted.
Everyone that participates in the AT has to deal with spies, be it Cov Ops observers, inhouse spies that take forum dumps etc. and deal with it as best as they can. Look at PL, they had all their AT setups posted to the public, came up with something that wasn't leaked and you of all teams beat them.
I say keep calm and carry on Faffy. I'm sure you'll do fine this tournament.
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Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
11
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Posted - 2012.05.20 21:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Fish Brain wrote:Everyone that participates in the AT has to deal with spies You're taking that as a fact of life, whereas I think the effects of this kind of metagaming can be decreased, even with very little effort on CCP's part.
Fish Brain wrote:Look at PL, they had all their AT setups posted to the public, came up with something that wasn't leaked and you of all teams beat them. With their own setup. I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that's a good thing?? I would rather PL (and everyone else) bring their best setups than be forced to bring inferior ones because all the good ones have been leaked.
Fish Brain wrote:I say keep calm and carry on Faffy. I'm sure you'll do fine this tournament. I am, and I plan to. |
Lazarus Telraven
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
8
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Posted - 2012.05.22 21:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
I have to agree with Raivi here in that if the guy watching you isnt interfering with you in anyway then he isnt really doing anyhting wrong. In fact i know the Goon practice has been spied on and we dont really care because so far the spy has probally seen 30+ different ship setups so they have no clue what we will actually field.
Was the neutral alt in a covops or a T1 Frigate? The reason i ask is because maybe they decloaked to be sure that you saw them and would then not get practice done etc.
There are other ways to hide your practice that would take a little more/less effort depending on how you classify it, like practicing in the deepest part of drone regions that is 30-40+ jumps from highsec practice there for a day and then for the next practice switch to a different system on the opposite side of eve.
Or you just dont care and practice even though you know you are being spied on and test setups you know you arent going to use just to confuse the spy.
The no B team rule is meant to improve the tournament but the metagame is a large part of EVE and I personally do not see it going away. |
Okinata
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.05.25 07:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
What do you want, a private server to play on? Information about the account owners to confirm they have a toon in Hydra? Hydra thrown out of AT X?
If they are not shooting you (and only because, as I understand it, you can only ffa pvp in designated areas on sisi) then grow a pair and stop sounding like a whiny care bear.
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Zleon Leigh
150
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Posted - 2012.05.26 02:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Okinata wrote:
If they are not shooting you (and only because, as I understand it, you can only ffa pvp in designated areas on sisi) then grow a pair and stop sounding like a whiny care bear.
You can petition non-consensual pvp right? So why even use a covert - spy, get killed, petition, get player kicked off Sisi, win.
Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital.
CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day |
Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 02:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
Faffywaffy wrote:What is CCPs opinion on alliances actively interfering with the training of other alliances on the test server? We're having Hydra Reloaded actively locate and scan the wormholes we're trying to run practices in.
You made a decision to train in a worm hole. That was your decision and now you must suffer the consequences for that decision. Wait, I am not Sreegs. The meta is fine so long as their is no meta in your meta as you meta. Meta. |
Kaleesa
Disconnected. Choke Point
2
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Posted - 2012.05.26 03:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Faffywaffy wrote:What is CCPs opinion on alliances actively interfering with the training of other alliances on the test server? We're having Hydra Reloaded actively locate and scan the wormholes we're trying to run practices in.
Cmon bro you already know CCP are not gonna stop this. Would the tourney be better if ppl didn't spy and meta game? Absolutely, then we'd see truly fair matchups, but eve's never been that way. Also, life isn't fair either in case you were wondering. I look forward to seeing DS in the tourney though, you guys are always fun to watch. |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
243
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 05:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
Step 1. Move into wormhole system with POS and scanners Step 2. Cycle the kspace exit Step 3. Profit $$ |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1427
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 09:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
Faffywaffy wrote:What is CCPs opinion on alliances actively interfering with the training of other alliances on the test server? We're having Hydra Reloaded actively locate and scan the wormholes we're trying to run practices in.
Spying is part of both EVE and the alliance tournament. I don't see us sticking our noses in this at all unless they're interfering. If they interfere they will all be banned. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
514
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 10:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
And then it matters ofcourse who does the spying / interfering and who get's spied upon / interfered with.
The latests rulings make very clear that there are differences between the teams and some get tackled / ignored harder than others.
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1427
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Posted - 2012.05.26 10:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:And then it matters ofcourse who does the spying / interfering and who get's spied upon / interfered with.
The latests rulings make very clear that there are differences between the teams and some get tackled / ignored harder than others.
Explain. Do a good job please. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Faffywaffy
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
26
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Posted - 2012.05.26 10:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Faffywaffy wrote:What is CCPs opinion on alliances actively interfering with the training of other alliances on the test server? We're having Hydra Reloaded actively locate and scan the wormholes we're trying to run practices in. Spying is part of both EVE and the alliance tournament. I don't see us sticking our noses in this at all unless they're interfering. If they interfere they will all be banned.
Ok, thank you. |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
521
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 10:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: Explain. Do a good job please.
Ok, let's get banned then for breaking ToS 1.
You Sir,break rules whenever it pleases you. You post conversations or snipets of a conversation between player and GM and keep the thread locked making the whole discussion one sided. YOUR side ofcourse being the only one that matters.
The blatant favouritism is shown by the fact that Hydra and Outbreak are kicked from ATX whereas PL can continue. The situation might have a different taste to it but we still can speak about A and B teams, Yet Hydra and Outbreak get stomped harder. How befitting to call in the old cows from the well which is called AT9. Not one of you has even bothered to communicate after even several mails / petitions of them and just assumed and took action. Because it was easier.
So go ahead, slap me down with your rules and ban me because I am implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.
That you are narrowminded and vindictive you already proved. No worries to look worse then you already do. I also know there is no chance to petition this with IA because conveniently enough IA has nothing to do with forum moderation.
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1427
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Posted - 2012.05.26 10:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: Explain. Do a good job please.
Ok, let's get banned then for breaking ToS 1. You Sir,break rules whenever it pleases you. You post conversations or snipets of a conversation between player and GM and keep the thread locked making the whole discussion one sided. YOUR side ofcourse being the only one that matters. The blatant favouritism is shown by the fact that Hydra and Outbreak are kicked from ATX whereas PL can continue. The situation might have a different taste to it but we still can speak about A and B teams, Yet Hydra and Outbreak get stomped harder. How befitting to call in the old cows from the well which is called AT9. Not one of you has even bothered to communicate after even several mails / petitions of them and just assumed and took action. Because it was easier. So go ahead, slap me down with your rules and ban me because I am implying favoritism by a CCP Employee. That you are narrowminded and vindictive you already proved. No worries to look worse then you already do. I also know there is no chance to petition this with IA because conveniently enough IA has nothing to do with forum moderation.
I didn't post the logs. A player did. That means I get to repost them to give context. Even if the player hadn't we are STILL well within our right to do so.
I think I've explained the Hydra thing sufficiently and if "We will not discuss the issue further" wasn't clear enough for you on that I'll say um.... we will not discuss the issue further.
You're not implying anything. You appear aware at least that these posts shouldn't exist on the forum because you know that if you have an allegation to make IA is the one and only place to make it but it seems forum suicide by posting is what you're going for. IA has plenty to do with misconduct whether it come in the form of moderation or not. I encourage you to contact them rather than spewing all over every thread in the alliance tournament subforum. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Intigo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
41
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Posted - 2012.05.26 11:04:00 -
[31] - Quote
Hey Sreegs, who checks the Alliance Tournament email inbox? So we know who ignored all our emails to it. |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
56
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Posted - 2012.05.26 11:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:
I think I've explained the Hydra thing sufficiently
Intigo wrote:Hey Sreegs, who checks the Alliance Tournament email inbox? So we know who ignored all our emails to it.
Indeed, nobody has mentioned this or the emails officially. Maybe not quite sufficiently afterall. |
Anna Katarr
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2012.05.26 11:15:00 -
[33] - Quote
Intigo wrote:Hey Sreegs, who checks the Alliance Tournament email inbox? So we know who ignored all our emails to it.
i bet my ibis in the end ts the same person who will ignore your question |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1429
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Posted - 2012.05.26 11:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
Intigo wrote:Hey Sreegs, who checks the Alliance Tournament email inbox? So we know who ignored all our emails to it.
The emails were just as purposely obtuse as the petition. I'll mea culpa that we should have responded but to be honest it wouldn't have changed anything because you got booted for doing what you did, not doing what you sent in emails and petitions. You can continue to flood every forum you can find with your noise generation as if the emails are really what matters but in case you're not getting it from everyone else I'll spell it out for you.
You were booted for the reasons outlined in our two posts on the subject. What you sent in the emails and the petition was virtually identical in content regardless of if one had more words and I know it's convenient to pretend that's a major issue, but the fact is that it isn't and no response to the question that was posed would have changed the outcome. Posting over and over again about it won't change that and our annoyance with said childish behavior has reached its limit.
We have a tournament to run. You are not going to be in it. If you cannot prevent yourself from spamming our subforum specifically created to aid in the running of the tournament then we will prevent you from doing so. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
524
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Posted - 2012.05.26 11:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: I didn't post the logs. A player did. That means I get to repost them to give context. Even if the player hadn't we are STILL well within our right to do so.
So let's get this straight. Someone did something not allowed and as a result you are suddenly allowed to do it. Even though if a player does it ofcourse he get's burned. Because let's face it. We are all equal, just that some are more equal. It's so darn convenient and pleasant to hide behind the Dev ticker now so you can huff and puff however you want and nobody can do a thing about it. Do you put your thumbs in your ears after each post and wiggle your fingers while singing nana nana na na?
CCP Sreegs wrote: I think I've explained the Hydra thing sufficiently and if "We will not discuss the issue further" wasn't clear enough for you on that I'll say um.... we will not discuss the issue further.
If your explenation would have been satisfying then there wouldn't have been a discussion in the first place. You screwed up and that ends the discussion. Great move.
CCP Sreegs wrote: You're not implying anything. You appear aware at least that these posts shouldn't exist on the forum because you know that if you have an allegation to make IA is the one and only place to make it but it seems forum suicide by posting is what you're going for. IA has plenty to do with misconduct whether it come in the form of moderation or not. I encourage you to contact them rather than spewing all over every thread in the alliance tournament subforum.
And yet again you assume things without verifying them. -You assume I don't imply anything yet a major part of the readers here can see exactly what I imply. -You assume I am aware of what should and shouldn't exsist on these forums. Seeing you don't even seem to know it then how should a humble player like me be aware of it. -You assume I haven't contacted IA in the passt already yet IA already told me they mainly wotk on Dev and GM behaviour ingame and that for forum moderation I should contact the same people I am petitioning about.
And am not allowed to express my personal opinion in thread which have any sort of impact on me? Odd..... I think I need a new definition as what forums are. Are you this harsh and forthcomming towards people like Andski aswel?
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
231
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Posted - 2012.05.26 11:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:The emails were just as purposely obtuse as the petition. We both know that this is not true. Petition was written by OB member without caring much about wording, while emails were far more detailed and described what we were doing.
Look:
Quote:However for this year, even before the rules were announced, we have wanted to do things differently. Hydra and 0utbreak have been different groups on TQ for the past year and will have different people leading the teams this year. We do not intend to work together or colaborate in any way in the tournament matches starting on June 30th. We only intend to test together in the preparation through the medium of testing on SiSi. Even this we wouldn't do if getting 24 people on the test server wasn't difficult as a result of our alliances being much smaller than the large ones.
Assuming that there's no collaboration between our alliances in any way in the actual tournament, apart from testing, are we classed in the A/B team criteria?
This is exactly what we planned to do and what we were doing, and we got banned without even seeing reply to this (far from vague/ambiguous) email. If you still think that quoted part is obtuse and/or ambiguous, i really can't help.
I think you would look a way better if you just said Hydra/OB are banned @ 2nd may, instead of doing what you did. |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
56
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Posted - 2012.05.26 11:37:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: You were booted for the reasons outlined in our two posts on the subject. What you sent in the emails and the petition was virtually identical in content regardless of if one had more words and I know it's convenient to pretend that's a major issue, but the fact is that it isn't and no response to the question that was posed would have changed the outcome. Posting over and over again about it won't change that and our annoyance with said childish behavior has reached its limit.
How can you say that, if the emails were answered and the courtesy of a 2 way dialogue would have been possible none of this would have needed to happen. Like the emails state the intention was to not break any rules, afterall... Would it be hard to give the banned teams the benefit of the doubt that if they had received the clarification they asked for they would have acted differently?
"Mea Culpa" yet you don't feel that the ruling was unjust? Fascinating.
Just for reference
Garmon wrote:Exactly 3 weeks ago to this day, I declared hydra + outbreak's intention for this year in an e-mail, asking for clarification, and for permission if we were allowed to test with each other when numbers were scarce. I'd like to emphasize the only reason we are in the same corporation, is because when we test, it's in a wormhole, and we need to be able to give roles to people so they can fit their ships. Many alliances have been testing with each other for ATX, and it has been like that for years. I thought we were in the clear after being very open to you, here is the e-mail I sent to [email protected] on the 03/05, 3 weeks ago Quote: Regarding Hydra and 0utbreak, our only intention this year in terms of working together is to test with each other on Singularity for times when more numbers are needed.
Last year, the relationship between the two of us was much closer than what we intend for this year. Last year, both teams acted as one entity. We created two teams for the primary purpose of having enough to practice and the secondary purpose of winning first and second together so that PL could not. Once we got to the final we made several mistakes and against our intentions the finals as a spectator event were ruined.
However for this year, even before the rules were announced, we have wanted to do things differently. Hydra and 0utbreak have been different groups on TQ for the past year and will have different people leading the teams this year. We do not intend to work together or colaborate in any way in the tournament matches starting on June 30th. We only intend to test together in the preparation through the medium of testing on SiSi. Even this we wouldn't do if getting 24 people on the test server wasn't difficult as a result of our alliances being much smaller than the large ones.
Assuming that there's no collaboration between our alliances in any way in the actual tournament, apart from testing, are we classed in the A/B team criteria?
Thanks for your time
On the 12th, 9 days later, I sent a follow up e-mail after receiving no response ; Quote: Hello CCP Loxy,
We are putting a lot of effort in our tournament run this year. However we are very concerned that we might be breaking CCP's interpretations of certain rules without being aware of it. We want to follow the rules completely and contribute to making it an event that the Eve community appreciates and looks forward to.
We have described our intentions to CCP in our previous e-mail and we would like to know as soon as possible if what we are doing is alright. Specifically the rules are vague about how much collaboration constitues an A and B team situation. We suspect that there is no issue with testing against another team since multiple other hopeful entrants have been practicing together on SiSi this year. Again, however, we want to be sure.
If we could get a response as soon as possible it would put all of our minds at ease.
Thanks, Hydra Reloaded
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1430
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Posted - 2012.05.26 11:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: I didn't post the logs. A player did. That means I get to repost them to give context. Even if the player hadn't we are STILL well within our right to do so.
So let's get this straight. Someone did something not allowed and as a result you are suddenly allowed to do it. Even though if a player does it ofcourse he get's burned. Because let's face it. We are all equal, just that some are more equal. It's so darn convenient and pleasant to hide behind the Dev ticker now so you can huff and puff however you want and nobody can do a thing about it. Do you put your thumbs in your ears after each post and wiggle your fingers while singing nana nana na na? CCP Sreegs wrote: I think I've explained the Hydra thing sufficiently and if "We will not discuss the issue further" wasn't clear enough for you on that I'll say um.... we will not discuss the issue further.
If your explenation would have been satisfying then there wouldn't have been a discussion in the first place. You screwed up and that ends the discussion. Great move. CCP Sreegs wrote: You're not implying anything. You appear aware at least that these posts shouldn't exist on the forum because you know that if you have an allegation to make IA is the one and only place to make it but it seems forum suicide by posting is what you're going for. IA has plenty to do with misconduct whether it come in the form of moderation or not. I encourage you to contact them rather than spewing all over every thread in the alliance tournament subforum.
And yet again you assume things without verifying them. -You assume I don't imply anything yet a major part of the readers here can see exactly what I imply. -You assume I am aware of what should and shouldn't exsist on these forums. Seeing you don't even seem to know it then how should a humble player like me be aware of it. -You assume I haven't contacted IA in the passt already yet IA already told me they mainly wotk on Dev and GM behaviour ingame and that for forum moderation I should contact the same people I am petitioning about. And am not allowed to express my personal opinion in thread which have any sort of impact on me? Odd..... I think I need a new definition as what forums are. Are you this harsh and forthcomming towards people like Andski aswel?
It's hard to follow you because your posts are in a lot of threads so I have to assume you're reading at least one of them since you quoted me here. You make a good point about the GM communication and given that the rules should be followed and all things being equal we should probably ban the person who did so.
You are allowed to express whatever opinion you want within the rules regarding these forums. You seem to be unable to follow them and I find that quite unfortunate. Ad hominem statements of "you're wrong" don't change the content of your message.
I apologize for assuming that you know what shouldn't be in this subforum or the forums in general and I submit to you as an example every single post you've made here in the last 24 hours. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1430
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Posted - 2012.05.26 11:44:00 -
[39] - Quote
Kadesh Priestess wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:The emails were just as purposely obtuse as the petition. We both know that this is not true. Petition was written by OB member without caring much about wording, while emails were far more detailed and described what we were doing. Look: Quote:However for this year, even before the rules were announced, we have wanted to do things differently. Hydra and 0utbreak have been different groups on TQ for the past year and will have different people leading the teams this year. We do not intend to work together or colaborate in any way in the tournament matches starting on June 30th. We only intend to test together in the preparation through the medium of testing on SiSi. Even this we wouldn't do if getting 24 people on the test server wasn't difficult as a result of our alliances being much smaller than the large ones.
Assuming that there's no collaboration between our alliances in any way in the actual tournament, apart from testing, are we classed in the A/B team criteria? This is exactly what we planned to do and what we were doing, and we got banned without even seeing reply to this (far from vague/ambiguous) email. If you still think that quoted part is obtuse and/or ambiguous, i really can't help. I think you would look a way better if you just said Hydra/OB are banned @ 2nd may, instead of doing what you did.
Thank you for posting the email. My statement hasn't changed. I do find it amusing that you want to paint this as some giant conspiracy as if we needed some event to occur to remove you. If we truly wanted you out it as you suggest, it would have been easier and just as possible to do so up front or even last year. The fact is that we said "fair game" last year and gave you your trillions of isk worth of prizes, then gave you a shot at not breaking the rules this year. You proceeded to do so and in the best interests of the tournament were removed. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within the confines of your conspiratorial worldview. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
232
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 11:54:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Thank you for posting the email. My statement hasn't changed. I do find it amusing that you want to paint this as some giant conspiracy as if we needed some event to occur to remove you. If we truly wanted you out it as you suggest, it would have been easier and just as possible to do so up front or even last year. The fact is that we said "fair game" last year and gave you your trillions of isk worth of prizes, then gave you a shot at not breaking the rules this year. You proceeded to do so and in the best interests of the tournament were removed. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within the confines of your conspiratorial worldview. You replied to the conspiracy part of my post, thanks. however, it's not something i want to discuss because it is my personal opinion.
The other part: you say, petition message was ambiguous and we didn't follow reply closely. It may be true, okay. You say, email is the same as petition, but in other words, okay.
If it's similar and ambiguous, i want you to point at the statement of email which we didn't follow and broke. I'll even split them so you can mark them with "true" or "false":
1) Hydra and 0utbreak have been different groups on TQ for the past year 2) will have different people leading the teams this year 3) We do not intend to work together or colaborate in any way in the tournament matches starting on June 30th 4) We only intend to test together in the preparation through the medium of testing on SiSi.
And the final question "Assuming that there's no collaboration between our alliances in any way in the actual tournament, apart from testing, are we classed in the A/B team criteria?" is not a statement, it just a summary with the request for your opinion, so i'm not including it.
I don't want you to write blabbing post, just statement numbers and "true" and "false", with the reasoning behind "false" if possible. |
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Qlfon
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 11:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:It's hard to follow you because your posts are in a lot of threads so I have to assume you're reading at least one of them since you quoted me here. You make a good point about the GM communication and given that the rules should be followed and all things being equal we should probably ban the person who did so.
Just for claryfication, now you are considering ban those guys who quoted GM communication? Even if they done it to defend himself, and all GMs names are xxxxx-ed there, this will only prove us that ALL those quotes were true. Really, regardless of finale of this case, Outbreak./Hydra Reloaded guys looks more sincerely in any way, then you. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1431
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
Kadesh Priestess wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Thank you for posting the email. My statement hasn't changed. I do find it amusing that you want to paint this as some giant conspiracy as if we needed some event to occur to remove you. If we truly wanted you out it as you suggest, it would have been easier and just as possible to do so up front or even last year. The fact is that we said "fair game" last year and gave you your trillions of isk worth of prizes, then gave you a shot at not breaking the rules this year. You proceeded to do so and in the best interests of the tournament were removed. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within the confines of your conspiratorial worldview. You replied to the conspiracy part of my post, thanks. however, it's not something i want to discuss because it is my personal opinion. The other part: you say, petition message was ambiguous and we didn't follow reply closely. It may be true, okay. You say, email is the same as petition, but in other words, okay. If it's similar and ambiguous, i want you to point at the statement of email which we didn't follow and broke. I'll even split them so you can mark them with "true" or "false": 1) Hydra and 0utbreak have been different groups on TQ for the past year 2) will have different people leading the teams this year 3) We do not intend to work together or colaborate in any way in the tournament matches starting on June 30th 4) We only intend to test together in the preparation through the medium of testing on SiSi. And the final question "Assuming that there's no collaboration between our alliances in any way in the actual tournament, apart from testing, are we classed in the A/B team criteria?" is not a statement, it just a summary with the request for your opinion, so i'm not including it. I don't want you to write blabbing post, just statement numbers and "true" and "false", with the reasoning behind "false" if possible.
You don't have to worry about bla because the contents of the email you keep harping on are absolutely irrelevant. You were banned for your actions. Not what you said you do in an email or petition. We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions. We base what we do on action. Action you did. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
232
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:04:00 -
[43] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:because the contents of the email you keep harping on are absolutely irrelevant I'm not surprised.
CCP Sreegs wrote:We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions. But you had all the info on the intentions so could just prevent it by replying "no u cant", 9 key strokes.
Can you say, did you see this email (or quotes from it) before reading Garmon's reply here? |
Nebula XII
The Deliberate Forces HYDRA RELOADED
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:15:00 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:The fact is that we said "fair game" last year and gave you your trillions of isk worth of prizes, then gave you a shot at not breaking the rules this year. You proceeded to do so and in the best interests of the tournament were removed. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within the confines of your conspiratorial worldview.
The fact is you personally didn't want to give us prizes, but other people decided otherwise. But now you reached your goal. So there is no "we" as CCP - it's your personal vendetta and not answering the emails fits perfectly in it. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1432
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:22:00 -
[45] - Quote
Nebula XII wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:The fact is that we said "fair game" last year and gave you your trillions of isk worth of prizes, then gave you a shot at not breaking the rules this year. You proceeded to do so and in the best interests of the tournament were removed. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within the confines of your conspiratorial worldview. The fact is you personally didn't want to give us prizes, but other people decided otherwise. But now you reached your goal. So there is no "we" as CCP - it's your personal vendetta and not answering the emails fits perfectly in it.
By all means keep deflecting from the fact that you got kicked out for what you did though. Not for getting prizes last year or for sending emails.
What you did.
No amount of vague conspiracy drivel or insinuation of wrongdoing will change that. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
56
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:30:00 -
[46] - Quote
Kadesh Priestess wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:because the contents of the email you keep harping on are absolutely irrelevant I'm not surprised. I'm just pointing you at the fact that petition and email requests are far from being the same meaning expressed in different words, so just avoid putting equality sign between those two. CCP Sreegs wrote:We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions. But you (here i mean AT10 team) had all the unambiguous info on the intentions so could just prevent both alliaces from breaking (your interpretation of ambiguous) rule by replying "no u cant", 9 key strokes. Can you say, did you see this email (or quotes from it) before reading Garmon's reply here?
Interesting question as he already took fault for not responding to them in this very thread
CCP Sreegs wrote: The emails were just as purposely obtuse as the petition. I'll mea culpa that we should have responded but to be honest it wouldn't have changed anything ...
Edit: New somethingawhul.com CCP word, "Drivel" added to "Tears" "Spewing" and "mad" |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
40
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:You were banned for your actions. Not what you said you do in an email or petition. We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions. We base what we do on action. Action you did. Despite the fact that they were asking whether or not working together on SiSi was breaking the rules? They were asking for clarification. They stated multiple times that they didn't want to break the rules. You guys just ignored them. Finally they got a petition response from a supposedly qualified source, that said it was okay to share fits and train together. Then when they did so, you ban them.
You don't see how this is a problem? Seriously? |
Nebula XII
The Deliberate Forces HYDRA RELOADED
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:31:00 -
[48] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Nebula XII wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:The fact is that we said "fair game" last year and gave you your trillions of isk worth of prizes, then gave you a shot at not breaking the rules this year. You proceeded to do so and in the best interests of the tournament were removed. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within the confines of your conspiratorial worldview. The fact is you personally didn't want to give us prizes, but other people decided otherwise. But now you reached your goal. So there is no "we" as CCP - it's your personal vendetta and not answering the emails fits perfectly in it. By all means keep deflecting from the fact that you got kicked out for what you did though. Not for getting prizes last year or for sending emails. What you did. No amount of vague conspiracy drivel or insinuation of wrongdoing will change that.
Of course we did that because you framed us And now we're caught with a gun over a dead body, nice job. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1432
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:33:00 -
[49] - Quote
Nebula XII wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Nebula XII wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:The fact is that we said "fair game" last year and gave you your trillions of isk worth of prizes, then gave you a shot at not breaking the rules this year. You proceeded to do so and in the best interests of the tournament were removed. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within the confines of your conspiratorial worldview. The fact is you personally didn't want to give us prizes, but other people decided otherwise. But now you reached your goal. So there is no "we" as CCP - it's your personal vendetta and not answering the emails fits perfectly in it. By all means keep deflecting from the fact that you got kicked out for what you did though. Not for getting prizes last year or for sending emails. What you did. No amount of vague conspiracy drivel or insinuation of wrongdoing will change that. Of course we did that because you framed us And now we're caught with a gun over a dead body, nice job.
If catching you doing bad things is framing you then I guess you're right. Sorry bro the system's corrupt. You can stop posting about it now because we're just going to get you anyway. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Anna Katarr
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:You were banned for your actions. Not what you said you do in an email or petition. We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions. We base what we do on action. Action you did. Despite the fact that they were asking whether or not working together on SiSi was breaking the rules? They were asking for clarification. They stated multiple times that they didn't want to break the rules. You guys just ignored them. Finally they got a petition response from a supposedly qualified source, that said it was okay to share fits and train together. Then when they did so, you ban them. You don't see how this is a problem? Seriously?
"its a trap!"
he wanted an excuse to ban them, they delivered, trusting the call of some "random gm"... i read the word "conspiracy" here a few times now, its not a conspiracy by all means, since its pretty obvious... |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1432
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:33:00 -
[51] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:You were banned for your actions. Not what you said you do in an email or petition. We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions. We base what we do on action. Action you did. Despite the fact that they were asking whether or not working together on SiSi was breaking the rules? They were asking for clarification. They stated multiple times that they didn't want to break the rules. You guys just ignored them. Finally they got a petition response from a supposedly qualified source, that said it was okay to share fits and train together. Then when they did so, you ban them. You don't see how this is a problem? Seriously?
You can't read stickies so I'll go ahead and re-explain that working together isn't against the rules. That isn't what happened. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1432
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:35:00 -
[52] - Quote
Anna Katarr wrote:Vladimir Norkoff wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:You were banned for your actions. Not what you said you do in an email or petition. We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions. We base what we do on action. Action you did. Despite the fact that they were asking whether or not working together on SiSi was breaking the rules? They were asking for clarification. They stated multiple times that they didn't want to break the rules. You guys just ignored them. Finally they got a petition response from a supposedly qualified source, that said it was okay to share fits and train together. Then when they did so, you ban them. You don't see how this is a problem? Seriously? "its a trap!" he wanted an excuse to ban them, they delivered, trusting the call of some "random gm"... i read the word "conspiracy" here a few times now, its not a conspiracy by all means, since its pretty obvious...
I don't need an excuse. Doing it this way is actually a lot more work which is where these conspiracies fall apart. I think "pathetic" was the proper phrasing. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Kalvunia IV
Born-2-Kill
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Vladimir Norkoff wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:You were banned for your actions. Not what you said you do in an email or petition. We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions. We base what we do on action. Action you did. Despite the fact that they were asking whether or not working together on SiSi was breaking the rules? They were asking for clarification. They stated multiple times that they didn't want to break the rules. You guys just ignored them. Finally they got a petition response from a supposedly qualified source, that said it was okay to share fits and train together. Then when they did so, you ban them. You don't see how this is a problem? Seriously? You can't read stickies so I'll go ahead and re-explain that working together isn't against the rules. That isn't what happened.
Then tell us what did happen, exactly what happened |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1433
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:39:00 -
[54] - Quote
Kalvunia IV wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Vladimir Norkoff wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:You were banned for your actions. Not what you said you do in an email or petition. We don't decide what to do based on stated intentions. We base what we do on action. Action you did. Despite the fact that they were asking whether or not working together on SiSi was breaking the rules? They were asking for clarification. They stated multiple times that they didn't want to break the rules. You guys just ignored them. Finally they got a petition response from a supposedly qualified source, that said it was okay to share fits and train together. Then when they did so, you ban them. You don't see how this is a problem? Seriously? You can't read stickies so I'll go ahead and re-explain that working together isn't against the rules. That isn't what happened. Then tell us what did happen, exactly what happened
There's two stickies at the top of the forum you seem to want to ignore so I'll just go ahead and tell you there's two stickies at the top of the forum until you figure out how this works. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Qlfon
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:45:00 -
[55] - Quote
Mr Sreegs wants to say, that Outbreak./Hydra guys were only asking about training together, and they got permission only for that, but they went far and merged into ONE corp, right? But Mr Sreegs, do preffer BAN them without even warning, or answering any of their emails, he don't want to listen explanations that they were merged into one corp due to logistics effort. Mr Sreegs is security guy in CCP, there is no better person in whole CCP Team to check if they were sharing accounts or were logging in from same IP address, or paying for game with same CC, or beeing same people IRL, right? But still Mr Sreegs preffer BAN, and say they are same team. Or maybe, Mr Sreegs when he was playing this game, was very bad at this game, got humiliated by Outbreak./Hydra guys, maybe they killed him one time to much and now hes taking revenge.
No offence. |
SwindonBadger
0utbreak Outbreak.
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:47:00 -
[56] - Quote
ly obtuse as the petition. I'll mea culpa that we should have responded but to be honest it wouldn't have changed anything because you got booted for doing what you did, not doing what you sent in emails and petitions. You can continue to flood every forum you can find with your noise generation as if the emails are really what matters but in case you're not getting it from everyone else I'll spell it out for you.
You were booted for the reasons outlined in our two posts on the subject. What you sent in the emails and the petition was virtually identical in content regardless of if one had more words and I know it's convenient to pretend that's a major issue, but the fact is that it isn't and no response to the question that was posed would have changed the outcome. Posting over and over again about it won't change that and our annoyance with said childish behavior has reached its limit."
You should have responded, thats the whole point, with any amount of discusion right at the start we would have all been ok with following any responce given, you never gave us that chance, (as many more people then us where confused by your what is A, B team and vague new rules).
You did not respond, but you did respond for others, eg PL (even admited on live eve tv last year by Ravi as being 2 teams) who are still competing, RvB who again you changed your own rules for/ and have been in contact with.
One simple bit of coumnication would have resolved this, you know this, but you chose to be vendictve, you also know any kind of petion will be too late. People can see this quite easily.
I would have been fine with anything you asked us to do, even not compete, before training started but the way in which you have done things is something I do no tollerate from anyone.
I am quite happy to be banned for standing up to people like yourself, Its very clear you have a very high self rating but you made seriouse errors here.
Most other organisations would have worked closly with the top two teams to ensure a good tourney this year, you did the complete oppisite to get what you personally want.
The one thing that tickles me is the support we have gotten from people who normaly shout at us in the hope we go away.
so thank you sreegs its obviouse to me CCP has chosen a really "great bloke" really great., and Im sure if you keep up this great work you wont make them look bad.
I always stand up for the small entites that you like to squash so maybe for you this might look like just about 0B/ hydra tears but Im hoping if we work hard enough you will think harder in the future for next years tourney just incase someone else is given the same venictive treatment. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
40
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:48:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:You can't read stickies so I'll go ahead and re-explain that working together isn't against the rules. That isn't what happened. No, actually I can read stickies. In fact I have read all the stickies in this forum. Reading English is a trick I picked up at age 5. But thanks for your mildly insulting comment anyway.
So if it's not the fact that they were working together, then the reason they were banned is simply because the were all in one corp in one wormhole? That's it?
|
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1433
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:49:00 -
[58] - Quote
Qlfon wrote:Mr Sreegs wants to say, that Outbreak./Hydra guys were only asking about training together, and they got permission only for that, but they went far and merged into ONE corp, right? But Mr Sreegs, do preffer BAN them without even warning, or answering any of their emails, he don't want to listen explanations that they were merged into one corp due to logistics effort. Mr Sreegs is security guy in CCP, there is no better person in whole CCP Team to check if they were sharing accounts or were logging in from same IP address, or paying for game with same CC, or beeing same people IRL, right? But still Mr Sreegs preffer BAN, and say they are same team. Or maybe, Mr Sreegs when he was playing this game, was very bad at this game, got humiliated by Outbreak./Hydra guys, maybe they killed him one time to much and now hes taking revenge.
No offence, just trying to figure out why do so and not otherwise.
I can recommend the two stickied threads at the top of the forum if you are truly looking for an explanation. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1433
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:50:00 -
[59] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:You can't read stickies so I'll go ahead and re-explain that working together isn't against the rules. That isn't what happened. No, actually I can read stickies. In fact I have read all the stickies in this forum. Reading English is a trick I picked up at age 5. But thanks for your mildly insulting comment anyway. So if it's not the fact that they were working together, then the reason they were banned is simply because the were all in one corp in one wormhole? That's it?
I'm pretty sure you didn't read them so go ahead and do so again. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
233
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:55:00 -
[60] - Quote
Stop posting, Sreegs. You already look a way more bitter than I am, and I'm really bitter about it. |
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Intigo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
41
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:58:00 -
[61] - Quote
Thank you for making the rules so clear and taking the time to respond to teams emailing for clarification, Sreegs.
It seems CVA was confused too: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=113071&find=unread
It is fortunate that you banned both teams before they went ahead and did that because I am sure they would have been in trouble too, right?
You made the rules intentionally vague and ignored all attempts at communication so you could pull this stunt. The fact that CVA (and others) were confused about the rules too just goes to show how vague and useless said rules were.
It's sad to see things come to this. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
41
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 13:12:00 -
[62] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:I'm pretty sure you didn't read them so go ahead and do so again. Well then congratulations, you are wrong. I have indeed read them. The sticky that details the Hydra/Outbreak ban is the "Teams Removed from Competition".
Quote:It was widely known after the finals last year that Hydra Reloaded and Outbreak. had worked together as a single unit in order to game the competition. It was our hope that they would take their winnings and enter this yearGÇÖs tournament as separate entities without having to consider a replay of last year. They are both individually highly competitive teams and when they are working in their own interests they are among the best. Unfortunately Hydra and Outbreak are working from the same playbook as last year, practicing together in a single corporation on the test server in a single wormhole. We view them as they represent themselves, which mirrors how they represented themselves last year, as a single entity. For that reason they are barred from competition having entered the tournament masquerading as two units while functioning in reality as one. So then the reason you banned them is because you view them as a single entity.... because they worked together... in a single corp, in a single wormhole. (Semantics. Fun.)
Yet strangely enough their emails did ask if they could work together on SiSi, and whether or not that was breaking the rules. Y'know, those emails that you seem to think are irrelevant and didn't bother to respond to. And what's also strange is that the petition response did say they could share fits and work together. And then when they do, you view them as "masquerading as two units while functioning in reality as one".
So once again, how do you not see that as a problem?
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Shiroi Okami
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 13:13:00 -
[63] - Quote
While you're in furiiouspostingmode sreegs I would like to ask you as to why the AT team decided they would collaborate with RvB, contacting and explaining what they could and could not do when working together, yet you would not contact and/or ignored hydra and outbreak when they were not even two halves of a single entity like RvB is. It is this fact primarily that does not sit with me, that you can choose to accommodate some and just jump on the banwagon with others. If you could explain why this should not be construed as favouritism and or a grudge I would be much obliged. My Latest Video: Freestyle II |
Qlfon
State War Academy Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 13:24:00 -
[64] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: I can recommend the two stickied threads at the top of the forum if you are truly looking for an explanation.
So i did, today, yesterday and day before.
And everytime i get in there i read:
Quote:Sparring against each other and testing ship setups is not breaking the rules as the GM rightly stated. It is still not breaking the rules.
So, you have to admit, they are not same people, and it was all legit, as you say this it not breaking the rules.
Then this follows and here i have difficulty understanding, because they were asking in e-mails about such situation, that they may have problems with the number of people available for training.
Quote:However, that is not the activity which these teams were engaged in. As of our count yesterday 28 players had moved on SISI from Outbreak to Hydra. They were acting as a single team and a single organization for whatever purposes, which is similar to the problems that were the actual basis for these ruleGÇÖs creation.
This is obvious, that if i'm low on numbers in my team, or i need more experienced players in given ship that training could take place, i get people from other team. I think here is that HUGE missunderstanding.
Quote:The question was never asked, nor was the GM response given that it was ok to function as a single cohesive unit as relates to the tournament. We cannot gauge intent, but even were we to try we have only past experience to look at as we cannot (yet) predict the future. Had they simply entered as a single team, as they were operating, this would never have come into question. "Wormhole logistics" are also not an acceptable response as A) You're choosing to be in a wormhole and B) You're choosing to do so with half the effort the other teams would need to put in to do so.
Question you talking about were asked, and they got green light, i think many people will agree. But You insist that they were working for one team and You you have the audacity to tell them they themselves are to blame, and teach them how to make logistics/training:
Quote: A) You're choosing to be in a wormhole and B) You're choosing to do so with half the effort the other teams would need to put in to do so.
Sorry, Mr Sreegs, but i missed somewhere important information, how many Alliance Tournaments did you WON? |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
295
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 13:53:00 -
[65] - Quote
I like Sreegs as a bot/rmt ban hammer... not as anything to do with atx... he is doing a horrible job so far talking to the community... he is talking down to people... being like Hilmar before if was put in his place...
My old ceo was always good at telling me when to shut up when I was hurting my corps public image, and potentially causing a pr issue... maybe your ceo should do the same... also, stick to what you are good at and don't do alliance tourny next year |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 14:30:00 -
[66] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:I like Sreegs as a bot/rmt ban hammer... not as anything to do with atx... he is doing a horrible job so far talking to the community... he is talking down to people... being like Hilmar before if was put in his place...
My old ceo was always good at telling me when to shut up when I was hurting my corps public image, and potentially causing a pr issue... maybe your ceo should do the same... also, stick to what you are good at and don't do alliance tourny next year
Post it in a few more threads buddy I didn't see this same thing in the last one. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 14:57:00 -
[67] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Nebula XII wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Nebula XII wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:The fact is that we said "fair game" last year and gave you your trillions of isk worth of prizes, then gave you a shot at not breaking the rules this year. You proceeded to do so and in the best interests of the tournament were removed. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within the confines of your conspiratorial worldview. The fact is you personally didn't want to give us prizes, but other people decided otherwise. But now you reached your goal. So there is no "we" as CCP - it's your personal vendetta and not answering the emails fits perfectly in it. By all means keep deflecting from the fact that you got kicked out for what you did though. Not for getting prizes last year or for sending emails. What you did. No amount of vague conspiracy drivel or insinuation of wrongdoing will change that. Of course we did that because you framed us And now we're caught with a gun over a dead body, nice job. If catching you doing bad things is framing you then I guess you're right. Sorry bro the system's corrupt. You can stop posting about it now because we're just going to get you anyway.
It is called entrapment. Asking the authority if it is ok to do something, having the authority say yes, and then getting punished for doing it is a textbook definition of entrapment. It would be like pre GCC changes asking a GM if you could use a tornado to warp around grid and pop multiple people, being told yes, and then being banned for exploits. |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
243
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 15:12:00 -
[68] - Quote
So, why is CCP allowing this thread to go off topic about teams spying in wormholes on each other? All bad posters should have their posts removed immediately. |
Mercurial Blood
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 15:14:00 -
[69] - Quote
Sreegs, in all honestly we can't stop you from acting this way.
But I want to address you on one point. From everything that has been shown and talked about, you simply MUST admit that there is a double standard here.
The communication you were able to give to RedVsBlue, but not Hydra or Outbreak just makes no sense to me.
I am obviously biased, and even discounting anything relating to the GM mail, how is it acceptable that no one replied to the multiple emails we sent to the alliance tournament team, regardless of how you feel they were vague or not. If they were vague, you should reply asking for clarification, that's how communication works. Not with "Oh, its those guys, screw them", just because you have a bone to pick and in your mind we have to be walking on thin ice.
Now I can't know for sure if this is just a result of a personal vendetta of yours, but from all your posts its sure as hell looking like it. |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 15:14:00 -
[70] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Nebula XII wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Nebula XII wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:The fact is that we said "fair game" last year and gave you your trillions of isk worth of prizes, then gave you a shot at not breaking the rules this year. You proceeded to do so and in the best interests of the tournament were removed. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within the confines of your conspiratorial worldview. The fact is you personally didn't want to give us prizes, but other people decided otherwise. But now you reached your goal. So there is no "we" as CCP - it's your personal vendetta and not answering the emails fits perfectly in it. By all means keep deflecting from the fact that you got kicked out for what you did though. Not for getting prizes last year or for sending emails. What you did. No amount of vague conspiracy drivel or insinuation of wrongdoing will change that. Of course we did that because you framed us And now we're caught with a gun over a dead body, nice job. If catching you doing bad things is framing you then I guess you're right. Sorry bro the system's corrupt. You can stop posting about it now because we're just going to get you anyway. It is called entrapment. Asking the authority if it is ok to do something, having the authority say yes, and then getting punished for doing it is a textbook definition of entrapment. It would be like pre GCC changes asking a GM if you could use a tornado to warp around grid and pop multiple people, being told yes, and then being banned for exploits.
thanks for explaining your interpretation of a legal word for me buddy but this isn't the real world nor is it applicable "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 15:15:00 -
[71] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:So, why is CCP allowing this thread to go off topic about teams spying in wormholes on each other? All bad posters should have their posts removed immediately.
I agree "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
|
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 15:15:00 -
[72] - Quote
Mercurial Blood wrote:Sreegs, in all honestly we can't stop you from acting this way.
But I want to address you on one point. From everything that has been shown and talked about, you simply MUST admit that there is a double standard here.
The communication you were able to give to RedVsBlue, but not Hydra or Outbreak just makes no sense to me.
I am obviously biased, and even discounting anything relating to the GM mail, how is it acceptable that no one replied to the multiple emails we sent to the alliance tournament team, regardless of how you feel they were vague or not. If they were vague, you should reply asking for clarification, that's how communication works. Not with "Oh, its those guys, screw them", just because you have a bone to pick and in your mind we have to be walking on thin ice.
Now I can't know for sure if this is just a result of a personal vendetta of yours, but from all your posts its sure as hell looking like it.
hey maybe if you guys make 3 more threads about it I'll give you the answer you want to hear instead of the same one I've been giving from the get go "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
|
Mercurial Blood
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 15:20:00 -
[73] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Mercurial Blood wrote:Sreegs, in all honestly we can't stop you from acting this way.
But I want to address you on one point. From everything that has been shown and talked about, you simply MUST admit that there is a double standard here.
The communication you were able to give to RedVsBlue, but not Hydra or Outbreak just makes no sense to me.
I am obviously biased, and even discounting anything relating to the GM mail, how is it acceptable that no one replied to the multiple emails we sent to the alliance tournament team, regardless of how you feel they were vague or not. If they were vague, you should reply asking for clarification, that's how communication works. Not with "Oh, its those guys, screw them", just because you have a bone to pick and in your mind we have to be walking on thin ice.
Now I can't know for sure if this is just a result of a personal vendetta of yours, but from all your posts its sure as hell looking like it. hey maybe if you guys make 3 more threads about it I'll give you the answer you want to hear instead of the same one I've been giving from the get go
You have never satisfactorily addressed why you (or the ATX team) never responded to our emails. I have been no-life'ing it here and I am pretty sure I have read at least 95% of all of your posts on this.
I just want a direct response to that one question, that isn't "I thought the question was too vague so it wasn't worth responding to" because that is nonsensical. |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
243
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 15:31:00 -
[74] - Quote
Mercurial Blood wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Mercurial Blood wrote:Sreegs, in all honestly we can't stop you from acting this way.
But I want to address you on one point. From everything that has been shown and talked about, you simply MUST admit that there is a double standard here.
The communication you were able to give to RedVsBlue, but not Hydra or Outbreak just makes no sense to me.
I am obviously biased, and even discounting anything relating to the GM mail, how is it acceptable that no one replied to the multiple emails we sent to the alliance tournament team, regardless of how you feel they were vague or not. If they were vague, you should reply asking for clarification, that's how communication works. Not with "Oh, its those guys, screw them", just because you have a bone to pick and in your mind we have to be walking on thin ice.
Now I can't know for sure if this is just a result of a personal vendetta of yours, but from all your posts its sure as hell looking like it. hey maybe if you guys make 3 more threads about it I'll give you the answer you want to hear instead of the same one I've been giving from the get go You have never satisfactorily addressed why you (or the ATX team) never responded to our emails. I have been no-life'ing it here and I am pretty sure I have read at least 95% of all of your posts on this. I just want a direct response to that one question, that isn't "I thought the question was too vague so it wasn't worth responding to" because that is nonsensical.
Stop shitting up threads. |
Suitonia
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
75
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 17:24:00 -
[75] - Quote
Shiroi Okami wrote:While you're in furiiouspostingmode sreegs I would like to ask you as to why the AT team decided they would collaborate with RvB, contacting and explaining what they could and could not do when working together, yet you would not contact and/or ignored hydra and outbreak when they were not even two halves of a single entity like RvB is. It is this fact primarily that does not sit with me, that you can choose to accommodate some and just jump on the banwagon with others. If you could explain why this should not be construed as favouritism and or a grudge I would be much obliged.
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Tawa Suyo
The Tuskers
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 17:42:00 -
[76] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Shiroi Okami wrote:While you're in furiiouspostingmode sreegs I would like to ask you as to why the AT team decided they would collaborate with RvB, contacting and explaining what they could and could not do when working together, yet you would not contact and/or ignored hydra and outbreak when they were not even two halves of a single entity like RvB is. It is this fact primarily that does not sit with me, that you can choose to accommodate some and just jump on the banwagon with others. If you could explain why this should not be construed as favouritism and or a grudge I would be much obliged.
|
DA Cassel
The Hobo Lords
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 17:47:00 -
[77] - Quote
Tawa Suyo wrote:Suitonia wrote:Shiroi Okami wrote:While you're in furiiouspostingmode sreegs I would like to ask you as to why the AT team decided they would collaborate with RvB, contacting and explaining what they could and could not do when working together, yet you would not contact and/or ignored hydra and outbreak when they were not even two halves of a single entity like RvB is. It is this fact primarily that does not sit with me, that you can choose to accommodate some and just jump on the banwagon with others. If you could explain why this should not be construed as favouritism and or a grudge I would be much obliged.
This is a realy good post, could somebody from ccp who isnt furios please answer. |
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
103
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:01:00 -
[78] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Shiroi Okami wrote:While you're in furiiouspostingmode sreegs I would like to ask you as to why the AT team decided they would collaborate with RvB, contacting and explaining what they could and could not do when working together, yet you would not contact and/or ignored hydra and outbreak when they were not even two halves of a single entity like RvB is. It is this fact primarily that does not sit with me, that you can choose to accommodate some and just jump on the banwagon with others. If you could explain why this should not be construed as favouritism and or a grudge I would be much obliged.
|
Wheedily
Megaton Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:16:00 -
[79] - Quote
DA Cassel wrote:Shiroi Okami wrote:While you're in furiiouspostingmode sreegs I would like to ask you as to why the AT team decided they would collaborate with RvB, contacting and explaining what they could and could not do when working together, yet you would not contact and/or ignored hydra and outbreak when they were not even two halves of a single entity like RvB is. It is this fact primarily that does not sit with me, that you can choose to accommodate some and just jump on the banwagon with others. If you could explain why this should not be construed as favouritism and or a grudge I would be much obliged. This is a realy good post, could somebody from ccp who isnt furios please answer.
I'd like to know as well. Blahblah |
Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:26:00 -
[80] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:
thanks for explaining your interpretation of a legal word for me buddy but this isn't the real world nor is it applicable
Glad to provide the service, because the issue is not one of being framed, it is about entrapment. Regarding your quip about this not being the real world (eve is real joke) that doesn't matter. It is a legal principle, like presumption of innocence or the proper chain of evidence. No one is forced to accept any legal principle, but they do enlighten our understanding of fair play and due process. |
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Kan'loch Lacoud
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:29:00 -
[81] - Quote
This seems a bit d+¬ja vu.
Keep up the good work Sreegs, it's refreshing to see a developer just boosh forum bitching instead of kowtowing to it. |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
108
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:29:00 -
[82] - Quote
As an outside entity, that has not watched a AT, has not been in a AT, and care nothing about AT.
I do not care is hydra plays, just an observation:
CCP Sreegs is acting like a child.
Grow up, and ditch the implied insults.
A post, in the style of Sreegs:
you may consider getting someone that knows what there are doing to post for you |
Wheedily
Megaton Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:31:00 -
[83] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:As an outside entity, that has not watched a AT, has not been in a AT care nothing about AT.
CCP Sreegs is acting like a child. I do not care is hydra plays, just an observation. Grow up, and ditch the implied insults.
A post, in the style of Sreegs:
you may consider getting someone that knows what there are doing to post for you
His posting also draws out a clear picture of his "just" decision making process. The picture is not particularly pretty. Blahblah |
Kan'loch Lacoud
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:32:00 -
[84] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:As an outside entity, that has not watched a AT, has not been in a AT, and care nothing about AT.
I do not care is hydra plays, just an observation:
CCP Sreegs is acting like a child.
Grow up, and ditch the implied insults.
A post, in the style of Sreegs:
you may consider getting someone that knows what there are doing to post for you
I agree, CCP should hire The Mittani as a public relations rep. |
Purpleshadez
Heimr Fatal Ascension
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:35:00 -
[85] - Quote
Come on, if people having to scan you down to spy on you, just proves they don't have the skills to take you on without knowing whats coming
half fun of pvp is wondering |
Blawrf McTaggart
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1003
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 01:46:00 -
[86] - Quote
Open thread, I do. Read page one, I do. Standard entitled bitching...
SUDDENLY SREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEGS |
Blawrf McTaggart
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1003
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 01:47:00 -
[87] - Quote
(2:47:50 AM) Ackbarre: what these morons can't seem to comprehend is that sreegs hated all of us when he was our ceo |
looMin uS
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 03:57:00 -
[88] - Quote
Too much to read...so when's the pew start? |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
738
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 04:53:00 -
[89] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:As an outside entity, that has not watched a AT, has not been in a AT, and care nothing about AT.
I do not care is hydra plays, just an observation:
CCP Sreegs is acting like a child.
Grow up, and ditch the implied insults.
A post, in the style of Sreegs:
you may consider getting someone that knows what there are doing to post for you
so you haven't read anything about why they are in trouble but you feel the next to comment anyways? Just watch the match it's not hard to find Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
738
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 04:55:00 -
[90] - Quote
Purpleshadez wrote:Come on, if people having to scan you down to spy on you, just proves they don't have the skills to take you on without knowing whats coming
half fun of pvp is wondering
but they allready told everyone what they were up to last year. And then CCP made a new rule, created BECAUSE OF hydra. And hydra broke it, the same way they did last year. By their own CEO now CCP insider.
That's hilarious. Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
|
Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 05:00:00 -
[91] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Purpleshadez wrote:Come on, if people having to scan you down to spy on you, just proves they don't have the skills to take you on without knowing whats coming
half fun of pvp is wondering but they allready told everyone what they were up to last year. And then CCP made a new rule, created BECAUSE OF hydra. And hydra broke it, the same way they did last year. By their own CEO now CCP insider. That's hilarious.
They didn't break the rule last year and they didn't break it this year.. CCP isn't psychic and they cannot know the intentions of Outbreak and Hydra. They cannot know that either team intended to throw a match. All that they know is that they were sparring together, the same way that Goons and Test admitted to sparring. |
Wheedily
Megaton Inc.
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 05:50:00 -
[92] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote:MotherMoon wrote:Purpleshadez wrote:Come on, if people having to scan you down to spy on you, just proves they don't have the skills to take you on without knowing whats coming
half fun of pvp is wondering but they allready told everyone what they were up to last year. And then CCP made a new rule, created BECAUSE OF hydra. And hydra broke it, the same way they did last year. By their own CEO now CCP insider. That's hilarious. They didn't break the rule last year and they didn't break it this year.. CCP isn't psychic and they cannot know the intentions of Outbreak and Hydra. They cannot know that either team intended to throw a match. All that they know is that they were sparring together, the same way that Goons and Test admitted to sparring.
This. Also at this point, trying to read up on the topic is hard, so many deleted posts. Leeloo's threadnaught was 25 pages 8hrs ago /o (Now 15)
Funnily a few pages of those are just our resident Goon Dev Sreegs' responses, that were indeed golden. I hope someone screen capped it all tbh. Blahblah |
Sendo Jarix
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
53
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 06:52:00 -
[93] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote:
CCP isn't psychic and they cannot know the intentions of Outbreak and Hydra. They cannot know that either team intended to throw a match. All that they know is that they were sparring together,
Then what happens if CCP allows it and this does happen.
CCP made a decision based on their previous history and their actions on SiSi, it's not that hard to comprehend. |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
155
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 07:38:00 -
[94] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote: They didn't break the rule last year and they didn't break it this year.. CCP isn't psychic and they cannot know the intentions of Outbreak and Hydra. They cannot know that either team intended to throw a match. All that they know is that they were sparring together, the same way that Goons and Test admitted to sparring.
Ok, well let's let everyone do it then. Let's get groups of 6 alliances in a wormhole, in the same corp. It would be so much easier to have just a couple guys coming up with and min/maxing our setups. We could have our best FCs coach each alliance how to fly the setups. We could pool our spy agencies and feed counter-intel.
Do you want to go down that path? Cause if you think that is OK then it will not take very long for blocs to form and the metagaming will put the "little guys" at a real disadvantage.
Be careful what you wish for. |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
738
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 08:15:00 -
[95] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote:MotherMoon wrote:Purpleshadez wrote:Come on, if people having to scan you down to spy on you, just proves they don't have the skills to take you on without knowing whats coming
half fun of pvp is wondering but they allready told everyone what they were up to last year. And then CCP made a new rule, created BECAUSE OF hydra. And hydra broke it, the same way they did last year. By their own CEO now CCP insider. That's hilarious. They didn't break the rule last year and they didn't break it this year.. CCP isn't psychic and they cannot know the intentions of Outbreak and Hydra. They cannot know that either team intended to throw a match. All that they know is that they were sparring together, the same way that Goons and Test admitted to sparring.
They couldn't of broken the rule last year, the rule this year was invented THIS YEAR just for them because of the finals LAST YEAR. How is that not clear? It was the most obvious thrown match in history, is that wrong of them to cheat? no this is eve. But they were caught on live TV, and really hurt the reputation of the tourney at large.
And hydra agrees with me on that last part.
I'm pretty sure you barely read what i post. Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
33
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 14:28:00 -
[96] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Karbox Delacroix wrote:MotherMoon wrote:Purpleshadez wrote:Come on, if people having to scan you down to spy on you, just proves they don't have the skills to take you on without knowing whats coming
half fun of pvp is wondering but they allready told everyone what they were up to last year. And then CCP made a new rule, created BECAUSE OF hydra. And hydra broke it, the same way they did last year. By their own CEO now CCP insider. That's hilarious. They didn't break the rule last year and they didn't break it this year.. CCP isn't psychic and they cannot know the intentions of Outbreak and Hydra. They cannot know that either team intended to throw a match. All that they know is that they were sparring together, the same way that Goons and Test admitted to sparring. They couldn't of broken the rule last year, the rule this year was invented THIS YEAR just for them because of the finals LAST YEAR. How is that not clear? It was the most obvious thrown match in history, is that wrong of them to cheat? no this is eve. But they were caught on live TV, and really hurt the reputation of the tourney at large. And hydra agrees with me on that last part. I'm pretty sure you barely read what i post.
Interesting, it seems to have lost my response, oh well, here goes again.
Reading what you wrote, you still seem to imply that they were breaking the rules last year. See for example: And hydra broke it, the same way they did last year. and they were caught on live TV.
Semantic pettiness aside, there is a substantial monitoring problem involved in trying to ban aspects of the meta game. This would be like trying to ban steroids while not having the ability to compel urine tests.
There are many Alliances famous for their extensive spy networks. Infiltrating competitors forums, corps, and comms can easily provide a substantial tactical advantage in the tournament. CCP has allready stated that they will not do anything to stop spying on the Test server, because spying is part of EVE. Well, there are many ways to get boring lopsided fights that make for bad TV and throwing a match is only one way.
It seems to me that when you have obvious problems with monitoring out of game communications, that the solution is to have less rules and to give up the appearance of an even playing field. Having vague, badly enforcable rules only enables the Bill Belichicks of the world. |
ry ry
Doctrine. FEARLESS.
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:46:00 -
[97] - Quote
Okinata wrote:What do you want, a private server to play on? there is a private server, its **** and we're probably not allowed to talk about it on the official forums. it was also about 5 years out of date last time i looked. |
Puskarich
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:31:00 -
[98] - Quote
Haha this here thread. We would practice with Rote Kapelle all the time and it wasn't an issue. I guess we didn't break the rules. Doesnt matter anyway, qtiy are too poor for alliance tournaments now.
|
Jawmare
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:47:00 -
[99] - Quote
CCP SPREGLORD |
Veruca Psalt
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 16:15:00 -
[100] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:Mercurial Blood wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Mercurial Blood wrote:Sreegs, in all honestly we can't stop you from acting this way.
But I want to address you on one point. From everything that has been shown and talked about, you simply MUST admit that there is a double standard here.
The communication you were able to give to RedVsBlue, but not Hydra or Outbreak just makes no sense to me.
I am obviously biased, and even discounting anything relating to the GM mail, how is it acceptable that no one replied to the multiple emails we sent to the alliance tournament team, regardless of how you feel they were vague or not. If they were vague, you should reply asking for clarification, that's how communication works. Not with "Oh, its those guys, screw them", just because you have a bone to pick and in your mind we have to be walking on thin ice.
Now I can't know for sure if this is just a result of a personal vendetta of yours, but from all your posts its sure as hell looking like it. hey maybe if you guys make 3 more threads about it I'll give you the answer you want to hear instead of the same one I've been giving from the get go You have never satisfactorily addressed why you (or the ATX team) never responded to our emails. I have been no-life'ing it here and I am pretty sure I have read at least 95% of all of your posts on this. I just want a direct response to that one question, that isn't "I thought the question was too vague so it wasn't worth responding to" because that is nonsensical. Stop shitting up threads.
|
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Cody Zamorah
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 17:09:00 -
[101] - Quote
Sendo Jarix wrote: CCP made a decision based on their previous history and their actions on SiSi, it's not that hard to comprehend.
Hmmm, does that mean we have to judge entities on their passt from now on aswel? So basicly if I see someone in a Tornado in a fit previously used for Boomerang ganking we should ban him right away. Since he has done so in the passt he will do it again.
And since when do actions on Sisi have relevance on TQ? I never read any rule which strictly forbids enemies on TQ to cooperate or even join up forces to try stuff out. Yet based on something completely legit last year but forbidden now we easy jump to the conclusion they are up to breaking the rules this year. But based on what premisis? They haven't broken any rules last year, yet it's convenient to assume they will break them this year. Now please elaborate the intent on breaking the rules this year. Which basis do you build your case on?
On the fact they formed a corp on Sisi together for easier logistics and communications? Which relevance does that have on TQ?
The fact they asked and petitioned this several times to check up if this was alright? This might seem as if they knew it might be wrong, on the other hand if they knew it was wrong would they petition to check if it was or wasn't? They received an answer which might have been based on not complete information, but that is also partially to blame on CCP, yet Hydra / Outbreak have to pay the price. Double standard is a word that comes to mind.
Since there was no rule broken last year and since a lot of what happens on Sisi has no bearing in TQ I see evidence build upon quicksand. It's build on pure speculation based on guttfeelings. Ofcourse several entities will claim this isn't the case, but the main arguements in favour of the ban I see are build upon the same false and incomplete premisis the whole ban is build on in the first place.
The utter lack of communication of the AT Team and the poor handling of the aftermath is surely something to be looked into. Even if the only result will be that in the future decisions are based on more than guttfeelings and conjectures and that communications lines are too important to be ignored or not taken into consideration.
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Wheedily
Megaton Inc.
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 18:42:00 -
[102] - Quote
Cody Zamorah wrote: Now please elaborate the intent on breaking the rules this year. Which basis do you build your case on?
On the fact they formed a corp on Sisi together for easier logistics and communications? Which relevance does that have on TQ?
The fact they asked and petitioned this several times to check up if this was alright? This might seem as if they knew it might be wrong, on the other hand if they knew it was wrong would they petition to check if it was or wasn't? They received an answer which might have been based on not complete information, but that is also partially to blame on CCP, yet Hydra / Outbreak have to pay the price. Double standard is a word that comes to mind.
Since there was no rule broken last year and since a lot of what happens on Sisi has no bearing in TQ I see evidence build upon quicksand. It's build on pure speculation based on guttfeelings. Ofcourse several entities will claim this isn't the case, but the main arguements in favour of the ban I see are build upon the same false and incomplete premisis the whole ban is build on in the first place.
The utter lack of communication of the AT Team and the poor handling of the aftermath is surely something to be looked into. Even if the only result will be that in the future decisions are based on more than guttfeelings and conjectures and that communications lines are too important to be ignored or not taken into consideration.
Good post. Blahblah |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1278
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 16:12:00 -
[103] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Shiroi Okami wrote:While you're in furiiouspostingmode sreegs I would like to ask you as to why the AT team decided they would collaborate with RvB, contacting and explaining what they could and could not do when working together, yet you would not contact and/or ignored hydra and outbreak when they were not even two halves of a single entity like RvB is. It is this fact primarily that does not sit with me, that you can choose to accommodate some and just jump on the banwagon with others. If you could explain why this should not be construed as favouritism and or a grudge I would be much obliged. It's really, really simple.
RvB is one entity that splits itself on TQ for the purposes of game mechanics (wardec) , asking how it can enter the competition fairly given this.
Hydra/0utbreak are supposedly two entities asking how they can work together as one on Sisi whilst claiming this collaboration won't possibly relate to what they do on TQ/ATX.
There's really a very marked difference. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1278
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 16:27:00 -
[104] - Quote
There's actually a quite hilarious irony to this.
Q: Why were they practicing in a wormhole? A: To avoid spying
Q: Why did Hydra<->0utbreak. not care that Hydra<->0utbreak, had full access to be able to spy? This is meant to be a cut-throat competition, with billions of ISK on the line. So, why were 63 competitiors locked out by an elaborate scheme involving wormholes on Sisi and one was allowed to be in the same corp with full access to the training ground?
When you see the imbalance in the position you'll see why the teams were viewed as one entity. If they treat the other team as an extension of themselves then thats how CCP will see it.
All the wailing you want about who said what* in an Evemail won't remove those facts.
* though this was rightly apologized for - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Faife
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
60
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 17:00:00 -
[105] - Quote
They should allow B teams so that TEST can submit couple hundred of them, get all spots, and win all prizes. |
Faife
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
60
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 17:00:00 -
[106] - Quote
Faife wrote:They should allow B teams so that TEST can submit couple hundred of them, get all spots, and win all prizes.
This is a great idea and will make for a great tournament I'm glad that Hydra and Outbreak came up with it so that the tournament will be better through this great idea. |
Hench Tenet
The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 17:24:00 -
[107] - Quote
Faife wrote:Hydra wrote:They should allow B teams so that TEST can submit couple hundred of them, get all spots, and win all prizes. This is a great idea and will make for a great tournament I'm glad that Hydra and Outbreak came up with it so that the tournament will be better through this great idea.
Agreed, this is a good idea. |
Samantha Utama
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
65
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 18:06:00 -
[108] - Quote
Shiroi Okami wrote:While you're in furiiouspostingmode sreegs I would like to ask you as to why the AT team decided they would collaborate with RvB, contacting and explaining what they could and could not do when working together, yet you would not contact and/or ignored hydra and outbreak when they were not even two halves of a single entity like RvB is. It is this fact primarily that does not sit with me, that you can choose to accommodate some and just jump on the banwagon with others. If you could explain why this should not be construed as favouritism and or a grudge I would be much obliged.
Hey, did this get answered already? |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1278
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 18:46:00 -
[109] - Quote
Samantha Utama wrote:Shiroi Okami wrote:While you're in furiiouspostingmode sreegs I would like to ask you as to why the AT team decided they would collaborate with RvB, contacting and explaining what they could and could not do when working together, yet you would not contact and/or ignored hydra and outbreak when they were not even two halves of a single entity like RvB is. It is this fact primarily that does not sit with me, that you can choose to accommodate some and just jump on the banwagon with others. If you could explain why this should not be construed as favouritism and or a grudge I would be much obliged. Hey, did this get answered already? I answered it 5 posts up, in that I gave you guys the "reason" that Sreegs is alluding to and you seem unable or unwilling to see. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
suptrader
suptrader Corp
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 19:59:00 -
[110] - Quote
LoL, It doesn't matter which thread I read in the tournament channel. They all have the same line of **** post form hydra, crying worse than a noob losing his shiny hulk.
If we had all the people that agrees with CCP on the matter post, the tread would reach 200+ pages. But i would rather not have that. So please stop littering all the treads. Accept you fate and move on! |
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NinjaTurtle
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 20:16:00 -
[111] - Quote
suptrader wrote:LoL, It doesn't matter which thread I read in the tournament channel. They all have the same line of **** post form hydra, crying worse than a noob losing his shiny hulk.
If we had all the people that agrees with CCP on the matter post, the tread would reach 200+ pages. But i would rather not have that. So please stop littering all the treads. Accept you fate and move on!
I wouldn't worry about it, 60% of these posts will be gone in a few hours |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
662
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 14:15:00 -
[112] - Quote
Kadesh Priestess wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Thank you for posting the email. My statement hasn't changed. I do find it amusing that you want to paint this as some giant conspiracy as if we needed some event to occur to remove you. If we truly wanted you out it as you suggest, it would have been easier and just as possible to do so up front or even last year. The fact is that we said "fair game" last year and gave you your trillions of isk worth of prizes, then gave you a shot at not breaking the rules this year. You proceeded to do so and in the best interests of the tournament were removed. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit within the confines of your conspiratorial worldview. You replied to the conspiracy part of my post, thanks. however, it's not something i want to discuss because it is my personal opinion. The other part: you say, petition message was ambiguous and we didn't follow reply closely. It may be true, okay. You say, email is the same as petition, but in other words, okay. If it's similar and ambiguous, i want you to point at the statement of email which we didn't follow and broke. I'll even split them so you can mark them with "true" or "false": 1) Hydra and 0utbreak have been different groups on TQ for the past year 2) will have different people leading the teams this year 3) We do not intend to work together or colaborate in any way in the tournament matches starting on June 30th 4) We only intend to test together in the preparation through the medium of testing on SiSi. And the final question "Assuming that there's no collaboration between our alliances in any way in the actual tournament, apart from testing, are we classed in the A/B team criteria?" is not a statement, it just a summary with the request for your opinion, so i'm not including it. I don't want you to write blabbing post, just statement numbers and "true" and "false", with the reasoning behind "false" if possible.
Nowhere in all the emails I see a mention about the fact that they where forming into 1 corp on the server.
That's the issue, and I know why it isn't mentioned in the emails, because they knew it wouldn't be accepted.
- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Chekxxx
Megaton Inc.
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 14:31:00 -
[113] - Quote
Ciar Meara wrote: Nowhere in all the emails I see a mention about the fact that they where forming into 1 corp on the server.
That's the issue, and I know why it isn't mentioned in the emails, because they knew it wouldn't be accepted.
Lol you're actually buying that "technicality"? Check out how wormhole logistics work, it has been repeated ad nauseaum. That was not the real reason for the bans, everybody knows it. |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1294
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 15:17:00 -
[114] - Quote
Chekxxx wrote:Ciar Meara wrote: Nowhere in all the emails I see a mention about the fact that they where forming into 1 corp on the server.
That's the issue, and I know why it isn't mentioned in the emails, because they knew it wouldn't be accepted.
Lol you're actually buying that "technicality"? Check out how wormhole logistics work, it has been repeated ad nauseaum. That was not the real reason for the bans, everybody knows it. 2 points
a) They chose to be in a WH and give themselves that issue. Clearly neither were worried about spying, or why would they let the other team share access? b) I'm in a wormhole right now. Somehow, I'm able to work with out-of-corp alts just fine. It's Sisi, an Orca is 100isk.
There's no valid reason. Even if there WERE they'd need to explain why they didn't think all the other teams should also go into the wormhole with them ... or are they not worried one "competitor" would see every setup and practice with them constantly?
As soon as you see how broken hiding in a WH on a test server so 63 teams can't even see what ships you're using and 1 team has full access you'll understand why CCP see them as one entity.
A genuine, competitive threat to them wouldn't be given access to their entire setup.
How are you all not seeing this? - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
48
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 16:30:00 -
[115] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Chekxxx wrote:Ciar Meara wrote: Nowhere in all the emails I see a mention about the fact that they where forming into 1 corp on the server.
That's the issue, and I know why it isn't mentioned in the emails, because they knew it wouldn't be accepted.
Lol you're actually buying that "technicality"? Check out how wormhole logistics work, it has been repeated ad nauseaum. That was not the real reason for the bans, everybody knows it. 2 points a) They chose to be in a WH and give themselves that issue. Clearly neither were worried about spying, or why would they let the other team share access? b) I'm in a wormhole right now. Somehow, I'm able to work with out-of-corp alts just fine. It's Sisi, an Orca is 100isk. There's no valid reason. Even if there WERE they'd need to explain why they didn't think all the other teams should also go into the wormhole with them ... or are they not worried one "competitor" would see every setup and practice with them constantly? As soon as you see how broken hiding in a WH on a test server so 63 teams can't even see what ships you're using and 1 team has full access you'll understand why CCP see them as one entity. A genuine, competitive threat to them wouldn't be given access to their entire setup. How are you all not seeing this?
We are not all seeing this because, as had already been stated, there is no prohibition against sparring. When you spar against an opponent, not only do you get to see their obvious fleet composition, but if any losses are inflicted, kill reports are generated.
In any given fight there are many things you can learn about your opponent just from watching the game. Based on their speed you can infer an AB, MWD, or Nano fitting. You can look at their ship and see what guns are equipped and if there are any shield visual effects. You can also look at the damage log and inferring the strength of their hits relative to your tank you can make a reasonable guess about the number of damage mods.
Sparring produces tons of free information that is both useful and not considered collusion. This is why the hand wringing about theorycraft and setups rings hollow. A vast amount of information can be freely shared as is and everything else would occur through non monitored channels.
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Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1294
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 22:42:00 -
[116] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote:We are not all seeing this because, as had already been stated, there is no prohibition against sparring. When you spar against an opponent, not only do you get to see their obvious fleet composition, but if any losses are inflicted, kill reports are generated.
In any given fight there are many things you can learn about your opponent just from watching the game. Based on their speed you can infer an AB, MWD, or Nano fitting. You can look at their ship and see what guns are equipped and if there are any shield visual effects. You can also look at the damage log and inferring the strength of their hits relative to your tank you can make a reasonable guess about the number of damage mods.
Sparring produces tons of free information that is both useful and not considered collusion. This is why the hand wringing about theorycraft and setups rings hollow. A vast amount of information can be freely shared as is and everything else would occur through non monitored channels.
Sorry, but there's a marked difference between sparring and living together fulltime and seeing the full and complete nature of everything the other team does.
I pose the same questions: 1) why sit in a WH at all and block the access of 63 teams? Now, take your answer to 1 and tell me: 2) why it doesn't apply between Hydra and 0utbreak.
There's nothing you can argue for case 1) that doesn't disallow 2) without first accepting there is a fundamental difference between how the entities see third parties and each other, which suggests a higher level of collusion at least. Try it. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
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