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Tessla Coil
Pirannha Corp
18
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Posted - 2012.05.21 16:28:00 -
[61] - Quote
+ eleventy million.
I want to know precisely what the null sec zealots are planning on doing. Of course, it is pointless to discuss anything in the csm threads, since the vast majority of the members are bought and paid for by said null sec zealots.
The high sec players in the game have one recourse: speak with your wallets. The csm speaks for anyone but high sec. |
Zhihatsu
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 16:42:00 -
[62] - Quote
Tessla Coil wrote:+ eleventy million. I want to know precisely what the null sec zealots are planning on doing. Of course, it is pointless to discuss anything in the csm threads, since the vast majority of the members are bought and paid for by said null sec zealots. The high sec players in the game have one recourse: speak with your wallets. The csm speaks for anyone but high sec.
I like your spunk. Tell me more about how most of the CSM delegates are bought and sold like slaves. Number of calories in a cubic lightyear of ham http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=number+of+calories+in+a+cubic+lightyear+of+ham |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
961
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Posted - 2012.05.21 18:41:00 -
[63] - Quote
Plan is to introduce "T2 Production Arrays" that function like CSAAs in that they're sec-space exclusive, but not limited by sov and can be built in lowsec as well. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
961
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 18:42:00 -
[64] - Quote
Not really but that would be awesome. What would also be awesome is capital strip miners for rorquals that only work on low-end ore. Then miners/manufacturers would have an incentive to move to low/null and rorquals would have an element of risk to flying them |
Torneach
Emrys Enterprises
149
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Posted - 2012.05.21 21:21:00 -
[65] - Quote
Players should be able to manufacture meta 1-4 items as well as faction/officer modules.
In fact, one could go so far as to say player manufacturing should be the only source of produced modules, and that destroyed mission and belt rats should just drop the components for these meta 1-4 items.
There should be a network of cooperation between combat and industry pilots - a combat pilot shouldn't be able to 'gun manufacture', and a pure industry pilot shouldn't have access to the materials for more advanced modules without fighting some sort of rat for the components. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
386
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Posted - 2012.05.21 21:39:00 -
[66] - Quote
Torneach wrote:Players should be able to manufacture meta 1-4 items as well as faction/officer modules.
In fact, one could go so far as to say player manufacturing should be the only source of produced modules, and that destroyed mission and belt rats should just drop the components for these meta 1-4 items.
I've suggested it before, and it would be awesome - remove the whole idea of intact modules dropping from dead ships, and switch everything to a salvage-type system where you sift through the smashed up wreckage for raw components, which then have to be combined with a meta-0 item to produce the meta 1-4 item.
Put manufacturing truly back at the heart of the market. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
143
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Posted - 2012.05.21 22:50:00 -
[67] - Quote
I would like to see a retooling of T1 Ships Mining Barges all to be Tier 3 Ships Tech 1 Ships. 3 Classes - The Tank/ Utility support barge The Multi Target Low yield Drone Barge The Focused High Yield Glass Ship.
Can the t1 Ships be rebalanced Making the Procurer Retriever and the Covetor be on the same tier. Tier 4 or 3
Procurer: Procurer be focus on Tank and be able to use A strip miner and drones for mining and defence - to be able to be mine in the harshest of situations. Will have a bonus to Combat or Logistic Drones, Has a large drone bay but limited band with. Able to provide Replacement drones to Retrievers, or Logistic support to Covetors. USE: Type 1: This would be the hardened supporter of mining ops. Probably have one of these in every Group. TYPE 2: Used in missions that required a mining barge to be apart of the mission: Collecting a Major Rock or Ice Item, Providing Limited Logistic and Combat drone support to PVE gangs PVP Ships Ie Incursion Mining missions, High Suicide Gank areas, Be able to tank the most dangerous of belt with ease
Stats: Tank Medium Resists, Fair amount of Mid Slots, CPU and Power grid to build a tank as strong as a Battle Cruiser.
Retriever; Retriever to focus on Drone Mining (Hardened, Boosted, and numerous mining Drones) with support Mining lasers (Not Strip Miners, strip miner can be used but at a penalty) Minters focus on Mining several Small asteroids at once. (A mini Mining carrier) (Bandwith of 50 but able to use drones base 5 but also 1 per level of ship)(Drone bay 100m3) USE: TYPE 1:This would be the efficiency multiplier for a group or used by the mostly afk miner as they can select 10 targets and mine each of them slowly at the same time, Not having to worry about switching targets often or being hit by a stray shot. TYPE 2: It can also work in with other mining ships, finishing off the asteroids that would not give a full cycle to the Procurer or Covetor, and send drones out to mine a distant asteroid away from the rest. TYPE 3: It can work solo in Ie Areas where the belts are only contain small asteroids ie newly respawned belts in empire
Covetor: Covetor to Focus on Strip Miner mining pulling out the max ore per hour ratio between all the T1 ships. Is the Most Fragile. Yet it is able to sit in just 1 spot and mine the entire belt. You can mine like nuts but the tank is limited (ie current tank) A Destroyer can easily take you out. You make sure you have Military or Logistic support so when rats or suicide gankers come you might make it out alive. On the other hand you can mine the max ore as long as you watch you roids with a scanner so you don't loose time as the amount mined only takes up a portion of you mining cyele. You will mark Astriods for the Retriever to finish for you, as you don't have a drone bay to use mining drones. You rely on the Procerer to tank the belt for you, or a military ship, and rely on the logitics of the Procuerer drones, or (Military ship) to harden your tank, On the other hand those ship rely on you to bring in the Big bucks.
Procurer Stats Tanks Fair amount of Mid Slots, CPU and Power grid to build a tank as strong as a Battle Cruiser. 5% bonus to shield resists per level of Mining Barge Hold Small GÇô 2K Size Battle Cruiser similar to that of Covetor, Mining Laser Yield GÇô 1 Strip Miner at 3% per level of Mining barge bonus to yield Drones GÇô 10% Bonus to Repair of logistic drones and 10 %Bonus to Combat Drones. Drone Bay 150 m3, Drone Bandwith 50m3
Retriever stats: Standard resists Tank can be the strength of a Cruiser enough CPU and Power Grid to support it. Hold 4K Size Battle Cruiser Similar to that of a covetor. Mining Laser Yield GÇô Either 2x Mining Lasers at 200% capacity or Strip Miners at 50% Capacity. Mining drones 10% Bonus to yield and Hit points Per level of mining Barge and 1 Extra drone to be used per level. Drones GÇô Drone Bay 50m3, Drone Bandwidth 50m3
Covetor stats Destroyer Tank limited CPU and Grid to only allow Max Mining with minimal tank Hold 4k Size Battle Cruiser Similar to that of an old covetor Mining Lazer Yield 3x Strip miners with a 7.5% bonus per level which is equivalent to a current covetor mining with lasers and mining drones at max level. Drones GÇô None 1 Mid slot for Rock scanner Benefits Just point and Click at roid. Watch scanner to avoid wasted cycles. Watch local for Suicide gankers, No need to wait for travel time for Drones
The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
143
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 23:03:00 -
[68] - Quote
Tessla Coil wrote:+ eleventy million. I want to know precisely what the null sec zealots are planning on doing. Of course, it is pointless to discuss anything in the csm threads, since the vast majority of the members are bought and paid for by said null sec zealots. The high sec players in the game have one recourse: speak with your wallets. The csm speaks for anyone but high sec.
Have you played in Null sec? Alll null sec player have played in null sec and have alts in high sec. Do you have alts in Null sec.
it seems I have a man saying his side of the story is better with out ever reading or understanding the other side's story.
Risk vs reward is the underlying theme. So we should allow all production to be exclusive to high sec and keep high sec safe. Sorry that sounds like someone who want to keep hitting the I win button. If you want to produce and play in a safe haven, that should cost and that cost is Oppotutinity. T2 Production is slowly moving out of High sec with the Reward of Data cores moving to low sec though faction warfare and null sec though exploration rewards. This is a great Step.
I am looking forward to Ring mining which was suggested for winter with the rare moon ore in Null sec.
The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
143
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 23:12:00 -
[69] - Quote
I am also waiting/hoping for the feature of custom goods and local markets as apart of establishments which never appeared.
This will allow me to sell to selected individuals Advertise my specific unique Cargo Expander or ship hull that may have a few unique quirks that I have discovered how to make. --> I would like to see an experiment system that would produce a BPO of my unique item so only after countless attempted tried and Billions spent I finally tweak the unique item. I would also have lots of failed BPO to trash for most of my isk spent. But this would be one hell of a isk sink though BPO Breeding.....
The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
143
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 23:17:00 -
[70] - Quote
I would love to see a carrier low slot that made an ore hold then have the introduction of Fighter Sized Mining Drones.
There is nothing like mining in a capital ship. There was nothing like mining in a Super Carrier, and there was nothing more exciting than catching a Mining Super Carrier at a belt.(sadly Supers can no loner use Mining drones)
Please bring this in so that we can be stupid and show off our epien by mining in these capitals and super capitals, please.
I guarentee that these pair of ore module and Mining Fighter Drones will cost the lives of hundreds of super carriers. The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1431
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 23:18:00 -
[71] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:Risk vs reward is the underlying theme. So we should allow all production to be exclusive to high sec and keep high sec safe. Sorry that sounds like someone who want to keep hitting the I win button. If you want to produce and play in a safe haven, that should cost and that cost is Oppotutinity. T2 Production is slowly moving out of High sec with the Reward of Data cores moving to low sec though faction warfare and null sec though exploration rewards. This is a great Step.
I am looking forward to Ring mining which was suggested for winter with the rare moon ore in Null sec.
"Risk vs Reward" trope? Check! "Argumentum ad absurdum" Strawman? Check!
Your argument is basically that you want your part of the game boosted at the cost of other parts of the game. You have no concept of balance. The arguments put forward by CCP Soundwave were that he doesn't like passive income, yet nothing was done about RP accrual GÇö cutting something in half isn't the same as changing it to something else. The players who invested SP in the skills required to harvest data cores are being shafted while people who do nothing but shoot each other are now going to be the primary source of science & industry materials: this is no different to "mining with guns" and directly impacts on the people who had trained into T2 production. CCP Soundwave has already shown that he has no idea of the impact this will have on people already invested in T2 production (he questioned who would be impacted by "research with guns").
The argument was to "move T2 production more to low sec" but the R&D agents haven't moved. The argument was that "I don't like passive income", but the RP accrual mechanism hasn't been modified. CCP Soundwave claims that moving data core production to "research with guns" won't disenfranchise anybody. CCP Soundwave is, essentially, speaking from his arse.
At Fanfest there was even a presentation where they stated that there was too much focus on the "blowing things up" and not enough focus on the harvesting and building side of the game. The very next thing CCP Soundwave announced was moving data cores from science & industry focussed to "blowing things up" focussed.
EVE Online is not just about flying in space: it is about manufacturing, marketing, scamming, lying, cheating, stealing, capitalism, economics, politics and the exploration of what it means to be human. In short: it is a science fiction virtual reality.
We need to stop CCP Soundwave before he succeeds in turning EVE Online into Galaga Online.
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Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Intrepid Crossing
292
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 02:17:00 -
[72] - Quote
I'm in null sec and would love to see T2 production be viable there. Right now it's a logistical nightmare and 1000000x's easier to do in high sec.
With that said, I don't think removing market hubs from the picture for T2 is a good idea by any stretch. There is a whole hell of a lot more to do with T2 than datacores. While listening to the CSM townhall the other day, they all said they would like to see low sec as mini-hubs for industry. I'm sure this is linked to FW changes but I don't see it. What I see is that people *might* sell their lp's for datacores...*if* they are worth it in Jita or another hub. Besides that, what's the point of doing invention in low sec if you can't get the advanced moon materials or ore volumes? People will still do it in highsec because it makes the most sense for the market and for industrialists.
I don't see how they can make people go to null unless they revamp large parts of the system - ie drastically changing moon mining. If that happens, then maybe but right now I don't see it but I would love to hear what they mean when they say "moving to null sec". Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Zetura Omo
The Association High Tech Hill Billie
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 21:35:00 -
[73] - Quote
Industrial Mining Equipment addition!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=105040&find=unread
This is my thread about an upgrade to the Giant Secure Can that is usuable for those times when the Orca is not available for unloading or whatever for mining operations that need some more volume storage until the Orca returns.
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Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
327
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 05:52:00 -
[74] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Revolution Rising wrote:Yeah I have zero issue with the mining mechanic itself, it allows for people to socialise and do other things while they mine - like build queues, invention and planning - mining shouldn't NEED to be a "busy" exercise. In fact many people like it currently BECAUSE it's not busy and they can do it and relax while they do it. Like I (and Seleene) said earlier, new interactive and co-operative forms of mining should be bought in alongside the existing (passive, boring) version.
Yeah it would be cool to see a mining bonus based on an easy to do, hard to master interactive system.
CSM7 Skype Leak
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Brisco County
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
42
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:26:00 -
[75] - Quote
Tessla Coil wrote:+ eleventy million. I want to know precisely what the null sec zealots are planning on doing. Of course, it is pointless to discuss anything in the csm threads, since the vast majority of the members are bought and paid for by said null sec zealots. The high sec players in the game have one recourse: speak with your wallets. The csm speaks for anyone but high sec.
"We want to move T2 production more towards LOW and zero-sec."
What, do you not have access to low-sec? |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
388
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 21:20:00 -
[76] - Quote
Some keywords for new types of mining:
Fracking Whole Asteroid Recovery Plutoids Oort Cloud Composition Probing Drilling Platforms
Feel free to suggest more. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
T2BPO Producer
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 08:03:00 -
[77] - Quote
Disclaimer: The provided values are from april and are indications only, not precise and influenced by our activity and how fast we are with putting ships back in. They are provided from our sheets and applications to provide us with an indication how weGÇÖre doing. In no way is this a complaint in what IGÇÖm doing or I wouldnGÇÖt be doing this. The values for may are more grim, but as we still have a week to go, I used april. IGÇÖm also posting with an alt to make wardeccing us slightly harder, you know what to look for at least :) On another note, it seems invention got a nice boost/fix: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=112471
Are t2 bpo really passive income or bad for the market?
Monthly production cycles. We think they aren't worth it. You would need about 3 months of cost in production chain. 1 month in ships in production, 1 month in materials for component production. And then you have another month in ships you just finished. In our case that would tie up 240b, which we'd rather use to buy another bpo. Markup ranges from 14% to 169%. With an average of 56%. This is just taking into account sale price-material cost. There's the brokers fee and sales taxes and 6b per months in plex. In april we sold 120b worth of t2 ships, which cost us roughly 77b resulting in 43b profit. Per month we need 80 jobs for components, restarted every week. And this is on a pos for the time bonus so we need to move the materials from 1 component assembly array to the other. ThereGÇÖs also some planning needed to calculate how much we need to produce that week, buying materials and move them to production system. And then we need another 35 jobs for the ships themselves. And then some more for t1 ships and R.A.M.s. All this production then needs to be shipped to jita. This means 13,966,250 m3 or 15 freighters per month. And prices need to be updated every day to get everything sold as soon as possible which sometimes isn't possible. In the past we didn't produce from some bpos because we'd be oversaturating the market or because we don't make profit at all from the bpo. Buying a bpo also entails quite some risk because future changes can make an expensive bpo worthless. Other way around can happen too. But with a t2 bpo you can't just switch. Bpo's cost now 7 to 10 years of profit to earn that back. So for all this work in april we earned <37b, not just for installing 35 jobs. And that's after buying all those t2 bpo's, which would now cost at least 84 months *37b profit =3108b. This means a ROI of less than 1.2% per month.
If weGÇÖd be doing this is 0.0 with a fully upgraded station with 60% production speed bonus, multiply values by 2.5. The majority of the finished products need to go to empire as you canGÇÖt sell everything in 0.0. This would require 111 JF jumps, say, 15 min per 2 jumps meaning 14 hours per month which doesnGÇÖt include checking if itGÇÖs safe to jump. I canGÇÖt be bothered to calculate the fuel cost for that or losses to due to JF being killed.
Summary! This means for 37b profit you need: - 3108b isk for buying t2 Bpos + 60-90b for a weekly the production chain - ~130 24/7 production slots - 15 Freighter runs per month - Daily market updating - Time to create and maintain production (planning) spreadsheets and sales monitoring website. - Our corporation was founded 9 years ago.
OT: I would like to see a GÇ£Deliver and reinstallGÇ¥ button, a lot less clicking needed when reinstalling the comp jobs or making copies. |
Serina Tsukaya
Lonetrek Trade and Industries Test Friends Please Ignore
8
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Posted - 2012.05.24 11:17:00 -
[78] - Quote
Aren't most of the skills required to obtain research agents also required to create the items themselves? It would also be natural to shift t2 more into low/null, as that's where the goo comes from. It'll also increase incentive to move out to these regions and encourage more people to partake in the activities that occur in those areas. |
None ofthe Above
186
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 22:47:00 -
[79] - Quote
John Munkeen wrote:Exhumers don't need any change as they are great the way they are, But maybe a new Exhumer ship that is like the Hulk or Mac (different look is a must)
New Exhumer idea *No yield bonus *Lower Cargo then the hulks! *Higher hit points *More mid/low slots Why would I suggest a new ship is that the industry needs a mining ship that can defend its self, But to have the extra defence the new ship needs to remove the bonus to yield and cargo holds to add more armour plates and room for defence mods. This will mean a miner can pick from two types of ships, one for high yield mining but no way to have a good tank and have more risk mining, the other would be low yield mining but will be able to have a good tank and defend his ship.
In doing this the Gankers will need a buff to balance thing a bit more.
Second idea
the new pilots of eve need to understand that high sec space dose not mean safe space and should have a new player mission to explain this in more detail so they don't get a shock the first time they get ganked in high sec!
I completely disagree. I don't think your new ship idea is needed, just some rebalancing of the existing barges, which are a little broken.
I think powergrid and perhaps CPU should be revisited. Ridiculously tight. Wouldn't mind a mid or low or two in addition.
Training times for the mining ships are not well spaced out. Drop the Procurer requirements substantially (remove some of the Mining Barge prereqs and put them on the Retriever and Covetor). Make it the pay off for the Industry tutorial perhaps. Gap between the Retriever and Covetor could be dropped (Mining Barge IV), and the gap between the Covetor and Hulk increased. (Reducing the Covetor's Mining Barge requirement to IV would probably do this fine, leave Hulk at V.)
I also look forward to whatever solutions are put in place for ring mining. Sounds interesting.
Second whoever brought up more grav sites. Would welcome additional grav sites that contain normal empire ores and are easier to scan. Giving miners better options than the well known belts is great.
Perhaps scannable ice belts (Comets?)
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Brisco County
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
42
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 23:36:00 -
[80] - Quote
You know that if you give them a new mining barge with more lows, these muppets would just put another MLU in it and then continue bleeding all over the forums about how unfair Eve is.
50% of the hulk's HP are in the hull, but I've never once seen a killmail with a damage control. |
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Merritoff
Zod's Minions
11
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Posted - 2012.05.24 23:43:00 -
[81] - Quote
Mining: here I think a lot of players are mistaken about any buff to the exhumer class. By inherant nature Eve players are adaptive and any increase would be a temporary respite. Because raising the bar (ergo more Eligible Hit Points) would result in a ante up in the combat ship/s which would be used against exhumers. Miners require education, starting with the understanding that regardless of activity - this is a combat game. If I really had to change a facet of the Exhumer - it would be changing the Standard Active Shield certificate over to the Improved Passive Shield certificate in Recommended.
Two-Step, there has been a some discussion about changing the requirement of fleet boosting. This also impacts mining for vessels like the Orca and Rorqual. Basically the sides are for and against Off-Grid effective fleet boosts. Firstly, what is your own view in this issue and have CCP said anything to the CSM in regard of this?
If I was looking to the future. I would like a mobile refinary ship, scaled in the same tree as the Noctis.
And a Field Command styled exhumer. Unbonused strips x 3 with a utility slot and make the cargohold smaller. I'll exchange cargo space for a dedicated crystal pocket (why not, so many other ships - not just combat - get access a ute-slot). Fitting concession for a single ganglink, option to fit proto/improved cloak, tractor, RR. (think creative) A mining Foreman.
Manufactoring: so Eve has setting saving for overview and ship fits. But for Blueprint handling I need for each event to repeat manually every step. Knowing that I am going to put 10 catalyst BPO upto ME10.
1. Could I select all 10 to do in one go? 2. Could I default the Corp POS 3. Could I pre-save which destination? The ME amount, the hanger etc etc etc?
Oh, and here is an interesting request. Can the users of public slots be made public? I should be able to see who my competition is. |
None ofthe Above
186
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 00:33:00 -
[82] - Quote
Brisco County wrote:You know that if you give them a new mining barge with more lows, these muppets would just put another MLU in it and then continue bleeding all over the forums about how unfair Eve is.
50% of the hulk's HP are in the hull, but I've never once seen a killmail with a damage control.
Let me widen your horizons:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13451616
Was in the top 10 on the hulkageddon killboards:
http://hulkageddon.goonswarm.com/
I grant you its fairly rare. That's part of why I am not advocating a boost to the base EHP of the Hulk. Just the ability to fit a decent tank without too much difficulty. If people still can't manage to put a DCU II on it or a MSE II, well then no change; their hulks would remain as tissue paper around an aluminum can.
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
981
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 00:35:00 -
[83] - Quote
300m on hulk, 300k on t1 tanking modules
lol |
None ofthe Above
186
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 00:48:00 -
[84] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:300m on hulk, 300k on t1 tanking modules
lol
Almost all Hulk tank fits are lol-worthy, because the PG of the Hulk is the same as that of the Procurer.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Hulk http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Procurer
There isn't even compensation for the increased number of high slots. What idiot over at ORE put a frigate powergrid into ALL of the barges and exhumers?
You either have to have a lame t1 tank, or a sort of lame tank on a blinged out loot pinata.
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Jabba Fat
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.05.25 03:28:00 -
[85] - Quote
My 2 cents on Mining
Issue #1 Asteroids can be found in every belt that will yield ore. The Roid-Fairy has been hard at work and labelled every roid for us so picking the most profitable to mine is easy. This is one big problem. There is no need to do any prospecting / surveying to find ore in the EvE universe. Compare this to moon mining, at least you need to survey the moon and figure out what is available, then make a decision if itGÇÖs worth the effort or not. Compare this to Planetary Interaction, in this case you even need good skills to get a good reading on material location, then plan your structures accordingly.
Fix #1 A complete redesign of how roids are located in the universe is needed. How this is done is probably best left to the developers that need to take into account space-constraints and server-efficiency. But imagine roid belts that actually stretched all the way around a plant or a sun. Then each belt was divided into 1 to 360 sectors you could warp to. Roid belts donGÇÖt appear as a 40km half arc close to plantGǪ do they?? So in short, increase the amount of roids by many folds. Remove all roid labels, every roids in the universe should be named GÇÿAsteroidGÇÖ or something similar colourful. Make majority of roids worthless. Make use of the skills already in place. The higher Astrogeology skill the more accurate scan results. Maybe even introduce a ship specific to the task or new modules. There are many opportunities for new skills, ships and modules here.
Result #1 This will accomplish many things. Firstly, people need to survey roids in order to find profitable ones. I believe this will be a nice change compared mind-numbing way mining is now. The more thorough the upfront work the better the ore yield. This in turn makes botting somewhat more difficult as they canGÇÖt blindly warp to a roid and get valuable ore. If only 1 in 20 roids actually has valuable ore this should hopefully put a dent in the botters pockets.
Issue #2 Yield in roids are the same in the entire universe. Take Veldspar as an example, a batch (333 units) will refine to 1000 Tritanium. It does not matter if the ore was mined in High Sec or Null Sec, the end result is the same. This is a big issue as the reward vs risk doesnGÇÖt scale. Yes, yes, yesGǪ.. I know what youGÇÖre thinking. There is high end ore in Null Sec, why not mine the high end valuable ore? This is true of you are just mining for profit, but what if you are mining to manufacture. You still need the low end minerals for manufacturing and you need lots of it. Why should the yield be the same when the risk is not?
Fix #2 Introduce a yield % to ore and let the yield increase as the Sec gets lower. Lets use Veldspar as an example again, a batch (333 units) refines to 1000 Tritanium. 333 units of Veldspar has a volume of 33.3m3, 1000 units of Tritanium has a volume if 10m3, so the Veldspar ore yields is 30%. Mercoxit has a yield of 0.053%, this means you need to mine 10,000m3 in order to get 5.3m3 of Morphite. Kernite has multiple minerals when refined and the yield is as follows, Tritanium 0.804%, Mexallon 1.61%, Isogen 0.804%
Result #2 This will ensure there are a difference between High, Low and Null Sec when it comes to mining and profit. There are some correlation between risk and reward. It is also an incentive for High Sec miners to try Low / Null Sec as the rewards there are greater.
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Brisco County
The Shadow Plague Fidelas Constans
42
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Posted - 2012.05.25 03:30:00 -
[86] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:Brisco County wrote:You know that if you give them a new mining barge with more lows, these muppets would just put another MLU in it and then continue bleeding all over the forums about how unfair Eve is.
50% of the hulk's HP are in the hull, but I've never once seen a killmail with a damage control. Let me widen your horizons: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13451616Was in the top 10 on the hulkageddon killboards: http://hulkageddon.goonswarm.com/I grant you its fairly rare. That's part of why I am not advocating a boost to the base EHP of the Hulk. Just the ability to fit a decent tank without too much difficulty. If people still can't manage to put a DCU II on it or a MSE II, well then no change; their hulks would remain as tissue paper around an aluminum can.
Well, there's one. My horizons are ~broadened~. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
367
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Posted - 2012.05.25 04:16:00 -
[87] - Quote
It would be good to hear where things are at in regards to the ring mining (and the graphics update) I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
329
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Posted - 2012.05.25 10:54:00 -
[88] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:It would be good to hear where things are at in regards to the ring mining (and the graphics update)
Totally Agree here.
CSM7 Skype Leak
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Serpentine Logic
Sons Of Alexander AL3XAND3R.
1
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Posted - 2012.05.28 23:22:00 -
[89] - Quote
The skill tree for mining and industry is IMO too shallow.
I concur with those who propose a capital mining ship, both for the boost to non-highsec mining, and the increased progression available to mining characters.
I also suggest that manufacturing prerequisite skills be rationalised the same way piloting skills are. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3986
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Posted - 2012.05.29 07:04:00 -
[90] - Quote
The basic problem with mining is that the actual act of mining is incredibly dull. When it becomes something that draws attention to the screen rather than repels it, a lot of problems with mining go away.
To make mining actually some kind of fun, you need to make it a mental challenge. In fact you need to make it actual gameplay, and historically, CCP have been very bad at gameplay.
Still, what if the actual act of mining where completely different to how it is now? Consider this possibility:
Each asteroid is represented as a 3-dimensional object, with veins of ore ruunning through it in a semi-random, non repeating way (ie: unpredictably). The concentration of ore varies from, say, 10-33% of the rock by volume. There are two way you can mine such an asteroid.
The first is the simplest: to lock onto the rock, activate your mining laser and let it chew through the entire rock, as we do at present. This will eventually extract all the ore in the asteroid in the time it takes your ML to pulverize the entire thing*.
The second is more complex but more efficient: you use an asteroid scanner* to see those veins of ore, and you target your MLs on the asteroid to chew through to get the good stuff. The angle and focus with which you target your MLs determines how efficiently you can do this (ie: how much ore you can get while mining out as little "dead rock" as possible.
On some rocks, this will be a fairly simple puzzle; on others, it will be very tricky to get optimum yield. Thus we can reward actual player intelligence and skill, whilst still leaving the possibility of making some ISK being semi-AFK and studying for exams or whatever (many miners seem to be deeply attached to this playstyle). By procedurally generating the ore veins every time the rock respawns, we can make them significantly hard to macro efficiently; bots will almost certainly "mine dumb" and just chew through the whole rock. Thus smart human players actually playing the game will be able to gain a significant advantage (3-10x) over macro bots if they choose to. Since their attention will actually be directed at the screen, they can also maintain situation awareness and all the safety benefits that entails.
*We will assume that mining lasers automatically filter out and eject as space-dust the "dead rock", with only the ore being deposited.
*Additionally, all ORE vessels have asteroid-scanning capability built in to the ship, with no need to add an asteroid scanner. Non-specialised mining ships like Ospreys and Rokhs have to give up a midslot or "mine dumb". Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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