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Degine
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Posted - 2009.06.22 16:14:00 -
[1]
Can you fly L2 missions with a battleship? Let me explain why I would want to:
I've been playing EVE for 3 weeks and am currently flying an Arbitrator doing somewhat higher quality L1 missions. Once I get my drone skills up a bit I intent to start with L2. I love the Arbitrator but would also like to be able to fly battleships. Perhaps I'm not patient enough but I just don't want to waste to much time training and spending ISK on anything in between, like training Cruiser V, buying a BC.
I am trying to gather ISK as fast as possible to buy an Armageddon. (An Armageddon as it is relatively cheap and it has good drone capabilities.)
Now I know when I manage to buy one I will be poorly skilled at flying one not being able to fit it properly as you should with a battleship. But my intention is to use simple medium lasers first which I can use on the Abitrator right now. While allready flying it I'll be training skills to fit it better as well as earning a few ISK to do so.
As to get back to my question; at the time I get the battleship I doubt I will have high enough standings to fly L3 missions and *might* even not be fitted well enough for those yet. In such a case would it be possible to fly a few L2 missions with a battleship? I read a few topics about acceleration gates and ship classes, but there was no definitive answer stating that it was or was not possible. It simply said that use a battleship was overkill. (I can't remember which topic exactly)
Any additional suggestions on how best to proceed with this would also be appreciated.
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BalZ
Gallente
Nova-Tek
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.06.22 16:34:00 -
[2]
Edited by: BalZ on 22/06/2009 16:33:50
Just remember rule #1 of EVE: Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
My advice: stick to cruisers for level 2 missions...  |
BushRaider
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Posted - 2009.06.22 16:36:00 -
[3]
Yes, it is entirely feasible & possible to equip a BS with the smaller (Cruiser or Frigate sized) weapons you will need to pop NPC frigs & Cruisers (the larger BS-sized weapons are near to useless against fast, close orbiting NPC frigates due to tracking speed or explosion velocity and things like that, which just means you'd end up spending millions of isk on Torpedoes or Cruise Missiles, most of which would do negligable damage compared to smaller, faster-tracking turrets, or smaller missiles that have a better mix of explosion radius and explosion velocity.)
However, you will end up flying a big, slow ship that you probably won't have the support skills to use properly.
Level 2 missions should be easily acheiveable in a simple cruiser-class ship.
Battlecruisers are actually well worth looking into - you can easily run L2's right thru to Level 4 missions, assuming you can fit the ship out appropriately.
It's probably better for you (i.e. you will have less frustrations and a more enjoyable game) if you do indeed take the stepping stone that is a BC, rather than jump straight into something that isn't really designed to run Level 2's. They are a good, versatile halfway house that will give you months of good, affordable service (example: Caldari Drake BC cost around 30M, Caldari Raven BS costs around 80M. Plus insurance, fittings etc) until you need / are ready to fly a BS properly.
Of course, Eve is a sandbox, so you can do whatever you want - there is no real reason why you couldn't fit out a Raven with a mx of heavy and assault launchers, some shield tanking etc, and run whatever level missions you liked, other than being more expensive, slower and less efficent than a BC or well fitted Cruiser. And losing a 80M BS because you didn't have X skill to prevent Y from happening, is a painful way to learn!!
Fly safe
Bush |
Rokh Stah
Caldari
Rage For Order
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Posted - 2009.06.22 16:38:00 -
[4]
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the largest ship you can fly into a L2 mission is a battlecruiser if the mission has a gate. The Arbitrator itself is a great mission boat if your focused on drone skills. At L3 BS's are able to hop through a gate so I would wait until you hit L3 to fly a mission BS. :3 |
Sulissa UrnVelve
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Posted - 2009.06.22 17:02:00 -
[5]
some missions will lock you out of larger class ships, others will not.
You should be able to get a battleship class hull into most level 2 missions.
That being said you shouldn't fit large class weapons to that hull as you'll have issues hitting most the target in the missions with them.
I'd recommend sticking with cruisers / bc for level 2's you really don't need the tank of a battleship, and you'll kill stuff faster in a cruiser / bc.
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Sandeep
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Posted - 2009.06.22 17:12:00 -
[6]
There are maybe one or two L2 missions that disallow anything except an ordinary T1 cruiser or below. Other than that, you can bring whatever ship high sec allows.
I'd still use an Arbitrator for L2 due to the drone bonus. A cruiser can also target frigates much, much faster than a battleship.
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Degine
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Posted - 2009.06.22 19:10:00 -
[7]
Thank you everyone for your quick replies.
It may be that I apply the #1 rule in a stricter way as not to loose anything I can afford. I don't like to waste anything. So that is why I like overkill, to make be reasonably sure I won't loose a ship. (Like doing L1 in a cruiser as I am now.)
I suppose it is true that a battle ship might not be very suitable to use for L2 missions, and that there wouldn't be a stepping stone like a BC unless there was a reason for it. However, I intended to fit the battleship like a cruiser/bc first, but with more versatility as it has more slots, power and cpu. In this way I wouldn't have too much trouble with the smaller ships in L2/L3 missions (I think). The only problem I could think of is that the lack of BS skills would really make it an *immovable* wall of armor and the increased targetting time as Shandeep mentioned - is there anyway to decrease targetting time?
The main problems I have with a BC are that:
-in the case of a Harbinger, it costs 2/3 of the price of a BS (Armageddon),
-requires more time to be invested in skills to fly them effectively which could have been spend getting BS related skills up (regarding bonusses at least),
-and that there are no Amarr BC that have a drone capacity anywhere near the Arbitrator, or a BS, making my drone skills less useful.
As a side note: I prefer the looks of Amarr ships as well as their use of lasers over Gallente ships which would have a better drone oriented BC.
Perhaps I will follow your advise and keep the Arbitrator for L2 missions and switch to a BS for L3. Still, when I do get a BS I will try L2 missions to see if any of the acceleration gates function and might even try a few L1, just out of curiosity.
Thanks again for all the comments. |
g0ggalor
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Posted - 2009.06.22 19:46:00 -
[8]
tl'dr version: work you way up the ladder, "shortcuts" can end up being longer in the long haul.
EVE's mission system is great for new players. You don't have much isk, and you aren't earning that much. But if you do L1s and save you can afford a cruiser, and by the time you can afford that, you can run L2s. If you use a cruiser to run L2s and save up, you will eventually be able to afford a Battlecruiser, and by that time you will have standings for L3s.
Now, jumping into L2s and L3s isn't that big of a deal if you don't have great support skills. Jumping into L4s without great support skills can be a disaster however. Hang back at L3s building up your skills and cash to get a pre-rigged BS out of contracts, and fit it properly. By the time you can do that, you will probably have access to the best L4 agent that corp offers.
also, eve-survival.org
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.22 19:58:00 -
[9]
I've done level 2 missions in a frigate (Kestrel).
If you train for a Battleship, you already have Cruiser 4 so you can use a cruiser which is even easier. Nothing new to train either.
Once done doing the mission, sell the cruiser. You will have made much more than that by the time you can do level 3.
I do level 3 missions in a Battlecruiser (Drake) half sleep, and I have Cruiser 3 and BC 2. I've done level 2 missions in the Drake, and barely managed to stay awake. |
Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.06.23 02:44:00 -
[10]
I once did a couple of L2 missions in a BS (I'd done 14 and wanted to get my storyline).
From memory, it took longer to align and warp to the mission space than it did to complete the mission - at least it seemed that way. |
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Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.06.23 02:56:00 -
[11]
The Armageddon can carry a lot of drones, but it can't control more than the Arbitrator can. The limit for any ship is five. Since the Arbitrator gets a significant bonus to drone damage, you'll actually be hitting harder if you use it. The only reason to take a battleship would be for the uber tank.
I suggest using a battlecruiser, specifically the Harbinger. It uses cruiser weapons, so you don't have to waste time training for large weapons, has a large drone bay (very similar configuration to the Armageddon) and this particular BC has an excellent capacitor, which will help with your newbie skills. |
Tkar vonBiggendorf
Gallente
Snake Eyes Inc
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Posted - 2009.06.23 03:18:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Tkar vonBiggendorf on 23/06/2009 03:19:23
nevermind. |
Merouk Baas
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Posted - 2009.06.23 04:05:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Degine
It may be that I apply the #1 rule in a stricter way as not to loose anything I can afford. I don't like to waste anything.
You're wasting your time, and your opportunity to learn.
Time: the higher the agent, the better the rewards, so you do want to move upwards as fast as possible (based on your standings).
Learning: combat is brutal in EVE, and if you don't learn the finer shades of what a ship can and cannot do, you're going to just be a victim all the time. Consider this, a griefer could blow up your ship when you undock, for whatever reason. Don't fly something that's too big and expensive for the job.
Missions aren't too bad; there are guides everywhere (on the Internet), and lists of what the NPC resistances are and what their tactics are. Read up, know what to expect. Learn how to tank your cruiser (and train the skills for it), learn how to warp out fast, learn how to improve your DPS. You can do L2's in a cruiser; missions are easy. They're a moneymaker, a grind. No need to bring battleships when a cruiser will do. No point. |
Degine
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Posted - 2009.06.23 06:42:00 -
[14]
Hmm it seems nobody has any positive experience or comments for using a BS in L2.
I will just focus on maximizing the efficiency of my Arbitrator for now and I'll see what I do afterwards. Most skills will come in handy for a BC or BS later anyway.
It seems though, that a some people overlook the fact I mention I will not use the large BS equipment on the BS. I keep mentioning I will fit it like a cruiser/BC with medium lasers to be effective against smaller targets.
As for the drones the number of drones I can control is 5, but I need drone bay space. I usually bring 10 hobgoblins, 5 mining drones and fill the rest with Hammerheads. I bring more than the 5 I can control just in case one gets blown up. Or in the worst case all 5 by a smartbomb. I use the mining drones for the occasional mission that requires mining (seems odd for Internal Security agents  ). An Arbitrator at least doesn't support too many turret slots for mining lasers.
Thanks for all the comments, which were useful albeit a bit dissapointing.
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Sandeep
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Posted - 2009.06.23 06:54:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Degine
It seems though, that a some people overlook the fact I mention I will not use the large BS equipment on the BS. I keep mentioning I will fit it like a cruiser/BC with medium lasers to be effective against smaller targets.
As for the drones the number of drones I can control is 5, but I need drone bay space. I usually bring 10 hobgoblins, 5 mining drones and fill the rest with Hammerheads. I bring more than the 5 I can control just in case one gets blown up. Or in the worst case all 5 by a smartbomb. I use the mining drones for the occasional mission that requires mining (seems odd for Internal Security agents ). An Arbitrator at least doesn't support too many turret slots for mining lasers.
Gunnery:
BS is more difficult to maneuver, therefore more difficult to control the transversal important for scoring good turret hits, regardless of what size turret you use.
Drones:
Arbitrator has 150 m3 drone space with up to 50% bonus to drone abilities. You can fit 10 mediums, 5 lights and 5 mining or other combinations. NPCs do not use smartbombs.
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F'nog
Amarr
Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Posted - 2009.06.23 07:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Sandeep
Originally by: Degine
It seems though, that a some people overlook the fact I mention I will not use the large BS equipment on the BS. I keep mentioning I will fit it like a cruiser/BC with medium lasers to be effective against smaller targets.
As for the drones the number of drones I can control is 5, but I need drone bay space. I usually bring 10 hobgoblins, 5 mining drones and fill the rest with Hammerheads. I bring more than the 5 I can control just in case one gets blown up. Or in the worst case all 5 by a smartbomb. I use the mining drones for the occasional mission that requires mining (seems odd for Internal Security agents ). An Arbitrator at least doesn't support too many turret slots for mining lasers.
Gunnery:
BS is more difficult to maneuver, therefore more difficult to control the transversal important for scoring good turret hits, regardless of what size turret you use.
Drones:
Arbitrator has 150 m3 drone space with up to 50% bonus to drone abilities. You can fit 10 mediums, 5 lights and 5 mining or other combinations. NPCs do not use smartbombs.
Also, since the OP overlooked it before: targeting is slower in a BS than a cruiser. Also, BSes steer like a cow (no pun intended).
You can fit whatever you want on a BS, and I'm serious, since they get no bonus for non-BS weapons fit whatever gun you want. Your cap and fitting won't care. But the fact of the matter is, you won't lock your target in anywhere near like the time any cruiser will, and when you do, you won't control the range you fight in.
If I use a BS in an L2 mission, I'll have locked onto me by the time they're close orbiting me. Also by this time I won't be able to fly away and kite them, because they'll be all over my ass like a bad case of acne, even if I started to move away from me when they started to approach.
So I let loose my drones. The same thing you'd do in an Arbitrator.
"No problem," you say. "I've got this great tank, cause I'm in a BS." Problem 1) You're bigger than a cruiser, so you take more damage than one. Problem 2) You're using drones without the bonus the Arbi gets. Problem 3) If you'd used the Arbi you'd have locked and killed them before they even started damaging you.
Do you see where this is going? |
Degine
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Posted - 2009.06.23 08:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: F'nog
Also, since the OP overlooked it before: targeting is slower in a BS than a cruiser. Also, BSes steer like a cow (no pun intended).
You can fit whatever you want on a BS, and I'm serious, since they get no bonus for non-BS weapons fit whatever gun you want. Your cap and fitting won't care. But the fact of the matter is, you won't lock your target in anywhere near like the time any cruiser will, and when you do, you won't control the range you fight in.
If I use a BS in an L2 mission, I'll have locked onto me by the time they're close orbiting me. Also by this time I won't be able to fly away and kite them, because they'll be all over my ass like a bad case of acne, even if I started to move away from me when they started to approach.
So I let loose my drones. The same thing you'd do in an Arbitrator.
"No problem," you say. "I've got this great tank, cause I'm in a BS." Problem 1) You're bigger than a cruiser, so you take more damage than one. Problem 2) You're using drones without the bonus the Arbi gets. Problem 3) If you'd used the Arbi you'd have locked and killed them before they even started damaging you.
Do you see where this is going?
Okay I'm convinced, I will first work on the Arbitrator and then go for a Harbinger, following the normal route. However I didn't overlook the targetting:
Originally by: Degine
The only problem I could think of is that the lack of BS skills would really make it an *immovable* wall of armor and the increased targetting time as Shandeep mentioned - is there anyway to decrease targetting time?
Now this might be something for an entirely different topic I suppose, but what would be more efficient training time/skill point wise: first maximizing efficiency with a BC and then for a BS. Or use the BC skills and go for a Command ship?
How does a T2 BC compare to a T1 BS when used for PvE? Does a command ship have any place in L4 (solo or group) and L5 fleet missions for example. Or would a T1 BS be better beyond L3 in every aspect.
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Sandeep
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Posted - 2009.06.23 09:26:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Degine
How does a T2 BC compare to a T1 BS when used for PvE? Does a command ship have any place in L4 (solo or group) and L5 fleet missions for example. Or would a T1 BS be better beyond L3 in every aspect.
In a group mission: Command ships are great for anti-frig and anti-cruiser since they usually hit for full damage. They can bring respectable DPS to the field. They are also used to tank L5 when neuts are present (higher base resists allow better remote repair). However, they still use cruiser size systems: Much shorter weapon range, short targeting range, less number of locked targets.
For solo mission: CS can fit a great tank, but normally you don't need much tank if you can kill fast enough.
Some examples (assume max skills):
Apoc with Scorch L and 2 faction heat sinks: 542 dps @ 62 km, 400 sig, 0.03 tracking.
Absol with Scorch M and 2 faction heat sinks: 508 dps @ 23 km, 125 sig, 0.076 tracking.
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Jose Black
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Posted - 2009.06.23 13:18:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Degine
Hmm it seems nobody has any positive experience or comments for using a BS in L2.
Here we go: I did use one for some l2. Main reason has been that I had no cruiser anywhere close at the time. Also I had trained BS to V and cruiser was still at IV.
Last but not least the BS was a Dominix which is the best one in terms of scaling down to small missions. Since it got the same per level drone bonuses as a Vexor (or Arbitrator) does, it performed even better damage wise. Still it moves and turns like a space station compared to a cruiser and got way longer targeting times.
Unless you know exactly what you're doing and got decent (related) skills for using it a BS is barely more than an overpriced pile of space junk. A battlecruiser instead is more like a bigger cruiser, which performs still quite ok without too much skilling.
Since you asked how you could improve targeting time: There's a module called sensor booster which you should load with a scan resolution script.
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Sulissa UrnVelve
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Posted - 2009.06.23 17:20:00 -
[20]
Quote:
How does a T2 BC compare to a T1 BS when used for PvE? Does a command ship have any place in L4 (solo or group) and L5 fleet missions for example. Or would a T1 BS be better beyond L3 in every aspect.
As with everything in eve it's a balancing affair.
You can fly level 4's in BC's but you're equiping medium weapons and have to chew through BS hulls - which can take a while - or in some cases may not be possible.
The command ships have a super great tank , and will be harder to hit with more speed etc.
the ship class is mearly a vechicle for the weapons you're using |
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Cyprus Black
Caldari
4 wing
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.06.24 00:28:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Degine
Can you fly L2 missions with a battleship? Let me explain why I would want to:
I've been playing EVE for 3 weeks...
I'm going to go ahead and stop you here. You've got no business flying a battleship if you've only been training skills for three weeks.
I guarantee you don't have the right skills to properly fit and fly one. Just because you rushed towards the battleship skill doesn't mean you will be successful when flying it (which is pretty much all you can do with it).
______________
Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn. |
SIlhohuette
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Posted - 2009.06.24 03:44:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Degine
Can you fly L2 missions with a battleship? Let me explain why I would want to:
I've been playing EVE for 3 weeks and am currently flying an Arbitrator doing somewhat higher quality L1 missions. Once I get my drone skills up a bit I intent to start with L2. I love the Arbitrator but would also like to be able to fly battleships. Perhaps I'm not patient enough but I just don't want to waste to much time training and spending ISK on anything in between, like training Cruiser V, buying a BC.
I am trying to gather ISK as fast as possible to buy an Armageddon. (An Armageddon as it is relatively cheap and it has good drone capabilities.)
Now I know when I manage to buy one I will be poorly skilled at flying one not being able to fit it properly as you should with a battleship. But my intention is to use simple medium lasers first which I can use on the Abitrator right now. While allready flying it I'll be training skills to fit it better as well as earning a few ISK to do so.
As to get back to my question; at the time I get the battleship I doubt I will have high enough standings to fly L3 missions and *might* even not be fitted well enough for those yet. In such a case would it be possible to fly a few L2 missions with a battleship? I read a few topics about acceleration gates and ship classes, but there was no definitive answer stating that it was or was not possible. It simply said that use a battleship was overkill. (I can't remember which topic exactly)
Any additional suggestions on how best to proceed with this would also be appreciated.
Considering I've been denied access to a warp gate for a lvl 2 mission in a battlecruiser, I'm certain a BS would be as well. |
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