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Samoht Werdna
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Posted - 2004.09.21 18:06:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Del'Keron I don't get it. I really really don't get it. I've gamed on both Windows AND Linux. How in the "flippity do-da" can anyone here say that Linux is a better gaming platform or that they would WANT to play games on a Linux machine if they had a choice of doing it on Windows?! Is it just because you don't like Microsoft and see them as a big mean scary company? Grow up for Pete's sake! Don't get me wrong. I'm an open minded kind of guy and have given Linux it's chance. HA! I've given it MANY chances and it has failed to even come close to Windows. I wanted to like it. I really did. However, the truth is it's clunky and unintuitive, slow, and vulnerable. Even running on a computer that is twice as fast as my Windows XP Pro gaming rig it failed to impress me in any way. Not to mention being freaking nearly impossible to remove from my hard drive after contracting some virus just a few seconds after I plugged it in to the Net. Thank the gods for Windows Update. I couldn't find a Linux Update site. Well, not one that made any sense anyway. All you would need is to get a keylogger on your Linux machine and you'd basically be giving your EVE username and password out to anyone that wanted to look for it. It looks to me like all the anti-Windows guys here are thinking about those silly "home" versions of Windows like 95, 98, 98SE, and ME. Forget those. They were garbage. Throw in a copy of XP Pro and game like the rest of humanity.
I have no experience with Mac's (and never will) so I can't say one way or the other about them.
That said, I think it's pretty obvious that porting to other OS's when you already have it running on the one that 99% of us are already using is a silly waste of time.
Perhaps we could sit down sometime and figure out what your problems were with Linux? I've found it to be very intuitive and there are many automatic update services. These services merely are programs not webpages, as the Linux folk don't have things like ActiveX to screw with.
I've also never managed to contract a virus on Linux so maybe you could expand on that one. I think your fear of a keylogger works on pretty much any system though.
Your last comment well let's just say it's not very logical.
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Samoht Werdna
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Posted - 2004.09.21 18:06:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Del'Keron I don't get it. I really really don't get it. I've gamed on both Windows AND Linux. How in the "flippity do-da" can anyone here say that Linux is a better gaming platform or that they would WANT to play games on a Linux machine if they had a choice of doing it on Windows?! Is it just because you don't like Microsoft and see them as a big mean scary company? Grow up for Pete's sake! Don't get me wrong. I'm an open minded kind of guy and have given Linux it's chance. HA! I've given it MANY chances and it has failed to even come close to Windows. I wanted to like it. I really did. However, the truth is it's clunky and unintuitive, slow, and vulnerable. Even running on a computer that is twice as fast as my Windows XP Pro gaming rig it failed to impress me in any way. Not to mention being freaking nearly impossible to remove from my hard drive after contracting some virus just a few seconds after I plugged it in to the Net. Thank the gods for Windows Update. I couldn't find a Linux Update site. Well, not one that made any sense anyway. All you would need is to get a keylogger on your Linux machine and you'd basically be giving your EVE username and password out to anyone that wanted to look for it. It looks to me like all the anti-Windows guys here are thinking about those silly "home" versions of Windows like 95, 98, 98SE, and ME. Forget those. They were garbage. Throw in a copy of XP Pro and game like the rest of humanity.
I have no experience with Mac's (and never will) so I can't say one way or the other about them.
That said, I think it's pretty obvious that porting to other OS's when you already have it running on the one that 99% of us are already using is a silly waste of time.
Perhaps we could sit down sometime and figure out what your problems were with Linux? I've found it to be very intuitive and there are many automatic update services. These services merely are programs not webpages, as the Linux folk don't have things like ActiveX to screw with.
I've also never managed to contract a virus on Linux so maybe you could expand on that one. I think your fear of a keylogger works on pretty much any system though.
Your last comment well let's just say it's not very logical.
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Samoht Werdna
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Posted - 2004.09.21 18:10:00 -
[93]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar Seriously... I think a lot of you guys actually don't realise the implications of such a port. CCP would have to manage 3 different clients in addition to the several branches they already do have (Castor/Shiva/Kali/Whatever), adding a ****load of work to the entire project management part.
This is not about Linux or Mac. It's about making deep and fundamental changes to the entire developement process.
CCP already struggle managing their windows client with its several branches which is obvious if you look at all the delays we've put up with. How in the hell could you assume that adding two more clients for two other OS's make the job any easier?
I can understand that many of you would love to see a Linux client and personally I have nothing against such an idea, but I know for a fact that should this ever happen the game will not prosper as fast as it does today. Now considering the effort it takes to set up a Windows machine I do not believe that we need any OS ports right now. Maybe in future when we have 150.000 subscribers and Kieron has something better than an old C-64 to play Eve on
Just because it's cool doesn't mean we need it.
You seem to have a lot of energy to put towards shooting this down. How about trying instead to explain ways it could work? Something along the lines of my original post, but perhaps with a better definition and detail.
Just as a brain stretching exercise.
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Samoht Werdna
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Posted - 2004.09.21 18:10:00 -
[94]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar Seriously... I think a lot of you guys actually don't realise the implications of such a port. CCP would have to manage 3 different clients in addition to the several branches they already do have (Castor/Shiva/Kali/Whatever), adding a ****load of work to the entire project management part.
This is not about Linux or Mac. It's about making deep and fundamental changes to the entire developement process.
CCP already struggle managing their windows client with its several branches which is obvious if you look at all the delays we've put up with. How in the hell could you assume that adding two more clients for two other OS's make the job any easier?
I can understand that many of you would love to see a Linux client and personally I have nothing against such an idea, but I know for a fact that should this ever happen the game will not prosper as fast as it does today. Now considering the effort it takes to set up a Windows machine I do not believe that we need any OS ports right now. Maybe in future when we have 150.000 subscribers and Kieron has something better than an old C-64 to play Eve on
Just because it's cool doesn't mean we need it.
You seem to have a lot of energy to put towards shooting this down. How about trying instead to explain ways it could work? Something along the lines of my original post, but perhaps with a better definition and detail.
Just as a brain stretching exercise.
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Samoht Werdna
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Posted - 2004.09.21 18:14:00 -
[95]
There's one thing I'd like to know. Of the die-hard Mac users out there how many of you prefer OSX over OS9? This could help a lot in the steps to porting as OSX is more *nix based. I can see this easing the porting burden as there would be a lot of similar concepts and code.
Let us know.
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Samoht Werdna
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Posted - 2004.09.21 18:14:00 -
[96]
There's one thing I'd like to know. Of the die-hard Mac users out there how many of you prefer OSX over OS9? This could help a lot in the steps to porting as OSX is more *nix based. I can see this easing the porting burden as there would be a lot of similar concepts and code.
Let us know.
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Earthan
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Posted - 2004.09.21 21:01:00 -
[97]
I think its a bad idea ,Eve is great but really it can be so much more, throw all your forces towards improving it.Clean bugs add features,balance.
As considering 2 major other os Linux and Macos:
For Linux nearly all linux users that have graphic environement have also somwhere the much disdained windows installed.
For MacOS well it might be more needed but seriously how much do you think yo uwould get more players ?
Imho all computer gamers that are likely to play Eve have Windows.
I know it would be nice, it woudl be interesting for programmers but proapbly would not bring you nearly any new subscribers and you would loose plenty of time you could devote to improving Eve.
Please forget it.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
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Posted - 2004.09.21 21:01:00 -
[98]
I think its a bad idea ,Eve is great but really it can be so much more, throw all your forces towards improving it.Clean bugs add features,balance.
As considering 2 major other os Linux and Macos:
For Linux nearly all linux users that have graphic environement have also somwhere the much disdained windows installed.
For MacOS well it might be more needed but seriously how much do you think yo uwould get more players ?
Imho all computer gamers that are likely to play Eve have Windows.
I know it would be nice, it woudl be interesting for programmers but proapbly would not bring you nearly any new subscribers and you would loose plenty of time you could devote to improving Eve.
Please forget it.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Del'Keron
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Posted - 2004.09.21 23:12:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Samoht Werdna
Perhaps we could sit down sometime and figure out what your problems were with Linux? I've found it to be very intuitive and there are many automatic update services. These services merely are programs not webpages, as the Linux folk don't have things like ActiveX to screw with.
I've also never managed to contract a virus on Linux so maybe you could expand on that one. I think your fear of a keylogger works on pretty much any system though.
Your last comment well let's just say it's not very logical.
Why would I want to sit down and waste any length of time trying to learn the in's and out's of Linux when I'm already good to go with Windows?
If you don't think Linux is vulnerable to viruses just pop on over to www.google.com and punch "Linux virus" into the search box.
I don't worry about keyloggers on Windows since I can keep it secure with auto-updates. With Linux I worry quite a lot.
Oh and my comment was perfectly logical. |
Del'Keron
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Posted - 2004.09.21 23:12:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Samoht Werdna
Perhaps we could sit down sometime and figure out what your problems were with Linux? I've found it to be very intuitive and there are many automatic update services. These services merely are programs not webpages, as the Linux folk don't have things like ActiveX to screw with.
I've also never managed to contract a virus on Linux so maybe you could expand on that one. I think your fear of a keylogger works on pretty much any system though.
Your last comment well let's just say it's not very logical.
Why would I want to sit down and waste any length of time trying to learn the in's and out's of Linux when I'm already good to go with Windows?
If you don't think Linux is vulnerable to viruses just pop on over to www.google.com and punch "Linux virus" into the search box.
I don't worry about keyloggers on Windows since I can keep it secure with auto-updates. With Linux I worry quite a lot.
Oh and my comment was perfectly logical. |
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Nalias
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Posted - 2004.09.22 01:41:00 -
[101]
A Linux port would be awesome! I only have one Windows box left in my entire setup, and I'd love to dump it with a passion!
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Nalias
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Posted - 2004.09.22 01:41:00 -
[102]
A Linux port would be awesome! I only have one Windows box left in my entire setup, and I'd love to dump it with a passion!
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Hido
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Posted - 2004.09.22 02:36:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Cardassius It's a pain in the arse to get linux -> mssql working properly btw ;) (At least i had some trouble)
Why bother using MSSQL when you could use PostgreSQL, MySQL or Oracle? I am not sure of what CCP is using on the server side but one thing I can tell you is that when it comes to scaling a *nix OS will 0wn Windows anyday!
Porting to a OS like linux or in my case FreeBSD would be great for the following reasons.
1. Help out the OSS movement which could win a good couple of votes from the g33ks.
2. The guys who really have a say in the gaming industry like id (doom3), Blizzard (WoW) and so on are starting to realise that its an potential market and are taking steps moving towards it.
Also there is a couple of other suggestions I would make. When it comes to MMO, Asia happens to be a huge market in which there is so much profit to be made yet only a few companies are exploiting it. In Japan I have tried converting a few people to try and play EVE and they do give it a try, they really like the game and all but with everything that your going to interact with being in English it starts to get a bit hard for them.
As far as I know the only game that is even remotely "space based" happens to be Universal Century - Gundam Online which I am currently beta testing for and what I can tell you is that there is a lot of interest in the game. If anybody has seen any Anime I am sure you guys would have realised that there is a lot of mecha/space based stories out there cause thats what the people like and I would think with a translated client and also using UTF-8 for text input could provide CCP with a lot more customers.
China, Korea, Japan and Taiwan is ripe and ready to be picked so how about it CCP? With enough effort I would expect you would easily be able to double the current numbers.
Living the life Havin it large Welcome to the land of the rising sun |
Hido
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Posted - 2004.09.22 02:36:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Cardassius It's a pain in the arse to get linux -> mssql working properly btw ;) (At least i had some trouble)
Why bother using MSSQL when you could use PostgreSQL, MySQL or Oracle? I am not sure of what CCP is using on the server side but one thing I can tell you is that when it comes to scaling a *nix OS will 0wn Windows anyday!
Porting to a OS like linux or in my case FreeBSD would be great for the following reasons.
1. Help out the OSS movement which could win a good couple of votes from the g33ks.
2. The guys who really have a say in the gaming industry like id (doom3), Blizzard (WoW) and so on are starting to realise that its an potential market and are taking steps moving towards it.
Also there is a couple of other suggestions I would make. When it comes to MMO, Asia happens to be a huge market in which there is so much profit to be made yet only a few companies are exploiting it. In Japan I have tried converting a few people to try and play EVE and they do give it a try, they really like the game and all but with everything that your going to interact with being in English it starts to get a bit hard for them.
As far as I know the only game that is even remotely "space based" happens to be Universal Century - Gundam Online which I am currently beta testing for and what I can tell you is that there is a lot of interest in the game. If anybody has seen any Anime I am sure you guys would have realised that there is a lot of mecha/space based stories out there cause thats what the people like and I would think with a translated client and also using UTF-8 for text input could provide CCP with a lot more customers.
China, Korea, Japan and Taiwan is ripe and ready to be picked so how about it CCP? With enough effort I would expect you would easily be able to double the current numbers.
Living the life Havin it large Welcome to the land of the rising sun |
Samoht Werdna
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Posted - 2004.09.22 05:04:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Del'Keron Why would I want to sit down and waste any length of time trying to learn the in's and out's of Linux when I'm already good to go with Windows?
If you don't think Linux is vulnerable to viruses just pop on over to www.google.com and punch "Linux virus" into the search box.
I don't worry about keyloggers on Windows since I can keep it secure with auto-updates. With Linux I worry quite a lot.
Oh and my comment was perfectly logical.
This has gone way off-topic so let's just drop it.
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Samoht Werdna
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Posted - 2004.09.22 05:04:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Del'Keron Why would I want to sit down and waste any length of time trying to learn the in's and out's of Linux when I'm already good to go with Windows?
If you don't think Linux is vulnerable to viruses just pop on over to www.google.com and punch "Linux virus" into the search box.
I don't worry about keyloggers on Windows since I can keep it secure with auto-updates. With Linux I worry quite a lot.
Oh and my comment was perfectly logical.
This has gone way off-topic so let's just drop it.
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Samoht Werdna
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Posted - 2004.09.22 05:12:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Hido I would think with a translated client and also using UTF-8 for text input could provide CCP with a lot more customers.
China, Korea, Japan and Taiwan is ripe and ready to be picked so how about it CCP? With enough effort I would expect you would easily be able to double the current numbers.
Agreed it will be much easier to implement now than later. The boards could still stay English-only, but we do have a lot of other languages being used in game. Having native UTF-8 and a localized UI would be a great boon. I'm sure there are plenty of people that you could get to volunteer if language barriers become a problem. One thing to be careful of though is the massive influx of new characters that opening the game up to the Asian market could bring if it catches on.
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Samoht Werdna
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Posted - 2004.09.22 05:12:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Hido I would think with a translated client and also using UTF-8 for text input could provide CCP with a lot more customers.
China, Korea, Japan and Taiwan is ripe and ready to be picked so how about it CCP? With enough effort I would expect you would easily be able to double the current numbers.
Agreed it will be much easier to implement now than later. The boards could still stay English-only, but we do have a lot of other languages being used in game. Having native UTF-8 and a localized UI would be a great boon. I'm sure there are plenty of people that you could get to volunteer if language barriers become a problem. One thing to be careful of though is the massive influx of new characters that opening the game up to the Asian market could bring if it catches on.
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Hido
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Posted - 2004.09.22 07:18:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Samoht Werdna Agreed it will be much easier to implement now than later. The boards could still stay English-only, but we do have a lot of other languages being used in game. Having native UTF-8 and a localized UI would be a great boon. I'm sure there are plenty of people that you could get to volunteer if language barriers become a problem. One thing to be careful of though is the massive influx of new characters that opening the game up to the Asian market could bring if it catches on.
Massive influxes of people to start off with could become trouble but when you consider the pro's against the con's it could only mean good for the game. Extra players means more money for CCP in turn more hardware to run servers and more devs they can employ. Too many players could hurt the "one world design" if it starts to get to the levels of Linage but that will take a while to get to so for now it could just mean fresh meat for the grinder
Living the life Havin it large Welcome to the land of the rising sun |
Hido
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Posted - 2004.09.22 07:18:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Samoht Werdna Agreed it will be much easier to implement now than later. The boards could still stay English-only, but we do have a lot of other languages being used in game. Having native UTF-8 and a localized UI would be a great boon. I'm sure there are plenty of people that you could get to volunteer if language barriers become a problem. One thing to be careful of though is the massive influx of new characters that opening the game up to the Asian market could bring if it catches on.
Massive influxes of people to start off with could become trouble but when you consider the pro's against the con's it could only mean good for the game. Extra players means more money for CCP in turn more hardware to run servers and more devs they can employ. Too many players could hurt the "one world design" if it starts to get to the levels of Linage but that will take a while to get to so for now it could just mean fresh meat for the grinder
Living the life Havin it large Welcome to the land of the rising sun |
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Juniper
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Posted - 2004.09.22 14:48:00 -
[111]
I think everyone more or less accepts that the bulk of the work in porting EVE to other platforms would be the 3D engine. The game logic etc is written in Stackless Python, which is portable already.
I saw a video a while ago (somewhere on this website) with Hellmar explaining that what he has planned for EVE would take 7 years to implement (or come in 7 stages, I forget which now ). The 2D interface is getting an overhaul / re-write with Shiva, so its reasonable to assume that there will be a re-write of the 3D engine at some point in the future. It already has problems (flickering stations, grid exploit, to name but two).
The 3D engine code might be so complex & mystical that only a few (if any) left at CCP actually fully understand its inner workings, so it reaches black box status. That can happen in any long-running development project, and is not a criticism levelled at CCP should that be the case. So a re-write can make economic sense for that reason alone.
I think at that point, a resurrection of this thread would make sense. Supporting 2 platforms doesn't automatically make twice as much development support work, there is a bell curve effect which actually levels off the more platforms you support as your code becomes more robust.
Just my ú0.02 worth.
-- Gotta sell my stuff...
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Juniper
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Posted - 2004.09.22 14:48:00 -
[112]
I think everyone more or less accepts that the bulk of the work in porting EVE to other platforms would be the 3D engine. The game logic etc is written in Stackless Python, which is portable already.
I saw a video a while ago (somewhere on this website) with Hellmar explaining that what he has planned for EVE would take 7 years to implement (or come in 7 stages, I forget which now ). The 2D interface is getting an overhaul / re-write with Shiva, so its reasonable to assume that there will be a re-write of the 3D engine at some point in the future. It already has problems (flickering stations, grid exploit, to name but two).
The 3D engine code might be so complex & mystical that only a few (if any) left at CCP actually fully understand its inner workings, so it reaches black box status. That can happen in any long-running development project, and is not a criticism levelled at CCP should that be the case. So a re-write can make economic sense for that reason alone.
I think at that point, a resurrection of this thread would make sense. Supporting 2 platforms doesn't automatically make twice as much development support work, there is a bell curve effect which actually levels off the more platforms you support as your code becomes more robust.
Just my ú0.02 worth.
-- Gotta sell my stuff...
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Papolytic
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Posted - 2004.09.22 19:26:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Juniper
The 3D engine code might be so complex & mystical that only a few (if any) left at CCP actually fully understand its inner workings, so it reaches black box status.
The only thing I'm pretty sure of regarding CCP is that no one gets out alive. If they every worked on anything there, they're either still working on it, or are at the bottom of the Skeiarßrsandur river.
I love the idea of a linux port, and with my usual finesse and aplomb, not to mention my tactful, gentle nature, I don't care what it takes. I'd like to see that port done as soon as possible over all your cold dead bodies. You can even port over the screwed up nvidia rendering of minmat stations.
After the linux port, I suggest a Casio watch port, a palmpilot port, and a lead pencil port. Imagine the convenience of being trapped in an elevator with nothing but a zippo lighter (shades of Mr. T!) and a lead pencil and being able to logon and do whatever horrible things you usually do in Eve.
Thank you very kindly,
Papolytic.
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Papolytic
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Posted - 2004.09.22 19:26:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Juniper
The 3D engine code might be so complex & mystical that only a few (if any) left at CCP actually fully understand its inner workings, so it reaches black box status.
The only thing I'm pretty sure of regarding CCP is that no one gets out alive. If they every worked on anything there, they're either still working on it, or are at the bottom of the Skeiarßrsandur river.
I love the idea of a linux port, and with my usual finesse and aplomb, not to mention my tactful, gentle nature, I don't care what it takes. I'd like to see that port done as soon as possible over all your cold dead bodies. You can even port over the screwed up nvidia rendering of minmat stations.
After the linux port, I suggest a Casio watch port, a palmpilot port, and a lead pencil port. Imagine the convenience of being trapped in an elevator with nothing but a zippo lighter (shades of Mr. T!) and a lead pencil and being able to logon and do whatever horrible things you usually do in Eve.
Thank you very kindly,
Papolytic.
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MysticNZ
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Posted - 2004.09.22 23:54:00 -
[115]
How do you plan to port a directx 9 game to linux?
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
MysticNZ
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Posted - 2004.09.22 23:54:00 -
[116]
How do you plan to port a directx 9 game to linux?
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Samoht Werdna
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Posted - 2004.09.23 03:12:00 -
[117]
Originally by: MysticNZ How do you plan to port a directx 9 game to linux?
Did you read any of the other posts?
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Samoht Werdna
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Posted - 2004.09.23 03:12:00 -
[118]
Originally by: MysticNZ How do you plan to port a directx 9 game to linux?
Did you read any of the other posts?
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Skelator
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Posted - 2004.09.23 03:21:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Par'Gellen Wasting time to port EVE Online to Mac OS or Linux is the worst idea I have ever witnessed in print. Personally I see it as a slap in the face and a total disregard for what is a good use of developer time. I find it literally offensive.
Let's get a poll going for players that DON'T want the devs' time wasted on something like this.
Wow I thought you Converts of the Church of Bill Gates only FUDDED the newgroups.. Sad to see Microsoft sending some of its Fear Uncertainty and doubt Troops here..
No FLAMES Intended just know a Brainwashed M$ Convert when I see one.
BTW next year IBM is releasing a AS400 midrange server series that runs Entirely on Linux..
They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards |
Skelator
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Posted - 2004.09.23 03:21:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Par'Gellen Wasting time to port EVE Online to Mac OS or Linux is the worst idea I have ever witnessed in print. Personally I see it as a slap in the face and a total disregard for what is a good use of developer time. I find it literally offensive.
Let's get a poll going for players that DON'T want the devs' time wasted on something like this.
Wow I thought you Converts of the Church of Bill Gates only FUDDED the newgroups.. Sad to see Microsoft sending some of its Fear Uncertainty and doubt Troops here..
No FLAMES Intended just know a Brainwashed M$ Convert when I see one.
BTW next year IBM is releasing a AS400 midrange server series that runs Entirely on Linux..
They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards |
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