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Tahm Leukas
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Posted - 2009.06.25 06:53:00 -
[1]
Why is it that I see people always saying to train the basic learning skills only to 4/5? They also always suggest to stop the advanced versions even sooner. Is there such a leap in SP required for that final level?
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.06.25 07:46:00 -
[2]
The amount of time it takes to train level 5 of the "Rank 3" learning skills is what causes people to give that advice.
It will take training about a year of training skills that use that attribute as primary in order to recoup the investment of time required to train a Rank 3 attribute skill to 5. The time to break even on the time investment gets worse if the skill is boosting an attribute which you have a +5 implant for, and have performed a neural remap to boost that attribute.
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Micia
Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.06.25 07:46:00 -
[3]
Back in the ol' days, you had to train the basic learning skills to 5 before you could start on the advanced ones.
A couple of years ago, that prereq was reduced to 4.
In the time it used to take basic to get from 4 to 5, you can now easily get advanced from 1 to 3 - that's an additional 2 points (on top of whatever you were training) in roughly the same period of time.
Basic 4 to advanced 4, then basic to 5 - I don't think that many people take advanced to 5.
It was probably a good move, lowering that prereq. Lots of people felt that they had to incubate their characters for 2 months (just for learning skills) before really getting involved with training the "useful" skills.
It's easier to mix it up now.
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Should we fall before the dawn, Say this at our pyre, "They died Matari warriors, Their faces to the fire." |
Free Folen
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Posted - 2009.06.25 15:19:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Micia Back in the ol' days, you had to train the basic learning skills to 5 before you could start on the advanced ones.
A couple of years ago, that prereq was reduced to 4.
In the time it used to take basic to get from 4 to 5, you can now easily get advanced from 1 to 3 - that's an additional 2 points (on top of whatever you were training) in roughly the same period of time.
Basic 4 to advanced 4, then basic to 5 - I don't think that many people take advanced to 5.
It was probably a good move, lowering that prereq. Lots of people felt that they had to incubate their characters for 2 months (just for learning skills) before really getting involved with training the "useful" skills.
It's easier to mix it up now.
am training now basic to 5 and advance to 4
i found that advance skills use it's basic skill attribute so if your learn basic 5 before advance 4 your gain couple of hours even thought basic 5 takes much more than advance 4 (4 times as much time if i remember correctly) |
Chathe
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.06.25 15:29:00 -
[5]
The reason that folks have different suggestions on how to approach learning skills, is that like all skills in eve it's a linear payout vs a curved skill point requirement.
No matter what attribute you change you have a set ammount of time using that attiribute to get the skill points you spent waiting around to start to pay off.
The pay off times in days. Basics 0.16 0.89 5.05 28.57 161.62
Advanced 0.32 1.79 10.10 57.14 323.23
So 4/3 skills pay themselve back fairly quickly under a month of time training in with an attribute in primary ( example if you trained up perception, then trained in gunnery skill. )
If you play long enough all the learning skills will pay themselves off, ( and 5's look pretty on eve mon ), but the last levels take a whole pile of time to get paid off.
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Kezzle
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Posted - 2009.06.25 17:03:00 -
[6]
There is also the consideration of "fun". If you're spending the time to get advanced Learning skills up to 5, your actual 'doing things' skills will be static for a lonnnnnggg time. Done too early, this can crimp your style, as you're stuck doing the same (and therefore eventually mind-numbing) economically relatively unproductive things for too long.
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Tranka Verrane
Public Venture Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.06.25 17:52:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Tranka Verrane on 25/06/2009 17:52:40
Originally by: Free Folen
am training now basic to 5 and advance to 4
i found that advance skills use it's basic skill attribute
Sometimes, but look carefully. Either way make sure you train the advanced to 3 or 4 before training the basic to 5.
Player Since 2005 Over 4000 hours logged
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Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.06.25 19:00:00 -
[8]
I suggest basic to 4, advanced to 3, then train some fun stuff. After a couple months, continue training them to +4/+4, and finally +5/+4. Instead of doing all five skills though, pick two at a time. What I did was train up intelligence and memory, then do a couple months of all electronics and engineering type skills, then train up perception and willpower and train a few months of ships and weapons.
Still haven't gotten around to charisma, but I'll do it when I train leadership skills.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2009.06.26 05:32:00 -
[9]
OK ... say you have a rich uncle who is paying for all this so the cost of the skills is irrelevant ...
All the Rank 1 Skills have the attributes Memory and Intelligence.
All the Rank 3 Skills have their own attribute as primary and one of the others as secondary.
So, if you are training for a 5/4 Rank 1/Rank 3 Learning skill set, what you want to do - is:
1) Train the rank 1 Intelligence and Memory skills (Analytical Mind and Instant Recall) to Level IV 2) Train the Rank 3 Skills for Intelligence and Memory (Logic and Eidetic Memory) to Level IV. 3) Train the Rank 1 Intelligence and Memory skills (Analytical Mind and Instant Recall) to Level V 4) Train all the rest of your Rank 1 skills to Level V 5) Train the rest of your Rank 3 skills to Level IV.
If you know you're going to go for a 5/5 skill set - then just change the rank 3 Level IV's to Level V's.
Training the Rank 3 Learning Skills to Level V is obviously a long term investment in the game. But - as you get into some of the more involved skills which have training times of a month or more - you're going to want all the help you can get with those, especially if there are a lot of them. If you can get to 5/5 at the beginning of your career, you will not only get the benefit of having the additional speed when you train those long term skills, you will have had that benefit from the start - and - won't have to interrupt your training for other things later on to pick up those last level V skills.
So - long term - it is a good investment to get those skills to 5/5 - it's just a really painful process if you are just starting out and this is your only character. Most of the time, people who train to 5/5 at the start of their characters career - are training an Alt and can afford to wait. Essentially, they're already playing the game with other characters and are planning ahead. So, they look at what they are doing and create these characters/accounts knowing full well that they won't be able to use them for much for the next few months.
Now - the other thing you can do when training a character this way - is to buy them some really expensive implants, so that right off the bat they have very impressive attributes - which will make all their Learning Skills training easier itself. Here - you need to have the money for those very expensive implants - and - it would help to have jump clone access for this character so that when they went out and did things - they'd not be risking all those expensive implants.
So - there are two types of Character Training. One is for New People who actually have to make their money with the only character they've got - and then there is Alt Training by an established player who understands the game well and can plan their characters career out months before they start using it - and afford to lavish expensive things on that character to aid that development. Here - getting the money and buying the expensive implants is something they might start working on weeks or months before they even create the character.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Iria Ahrens
Amarr 101st Space Marine Force Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.06.27 06:39:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker I suggest basic to 4, advanced to 3, then train some fun stuff.
I say train 2 learning skills then fun stuff, then two more then more fun stuff.
example. First train your perception and willpower learning skills. Then train perception and willpower based skills. Then when you have your perception and willpower skills fleshed out decent, train intelligence and memory learning skills. Then follow up by working on intelligence and memory based skills.
People have this wierd, must train all learning skills idea, but the learning skills only affect certian skills, so if you know what skills you want to prioritize, there is no reason to put them on the back burner while you sit on your hands training charisma. |
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