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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Kwanaioo
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Posted - 2009.06.29 03:28:00 -
[31]
It has now been 48 hours since I noticed the fraudulent charge and submitted a ticked / emailed customer service. I have not heard anything back. I know CCP's customer service is usually lacking, but when it comes to fraudulent billings, I expect at least a "we're looking into it" response or something.
I did not receive any emails about updating my billing info, I was charged (WITHOUT consent) an amount which took my account into negative balance. I did not receive any game time for the charge (so it was NOT an accidental billing or anything like that) AND CCP has remained mute on it.
I read over the EULA and ToS. Since the fraudulent charge did NOT add game time to my account, from what I understand it is a VIOLATION of the EULA/ToS on CCP's part. Correct me if I am mistaken, but my understanding of legalese is fairly decent.
To the others who got the charge on 6/25 dated 5/01 - did you receive additional game time for that charge?
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Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2009.06.29 12:17:00 -
[32]
Question:
How will this affect accounts paid with GTC's? -
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2009.06.29 12:18:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Armoured C wut is going on
Did you recieve an email from us or does it say anything about re-submitting your billing information? If not, there's nothing to worry about.
Originally by: Vaal Erit I have a dumb question, why July 1st and not have people update their billing information whenever their current subscription ends or whenever they attempt to length their subscription?
We have been doing that for some time now actually, these are the accounts that are left because they haven't updated their billing information for a long time.
Originally by: DOARota If I have 2 accounts and pay for them via the same method, why did I receive an email to resubmit info for one but not the other. This seems very odd.
Probably because one account had already been updated at some point while the other one had not.
Originally by: Tohya Miho Let me get this straight... lets say for example, the usual date I am automatically charged for my account (paying monthly) is today. I pay my $15 and would usually be good through 27 July.
But then I then do this update/resubscribe on 30 June, so I'm sure to beat the "re-enter your billing info by July 1st or your account will be CANCELED" semi-threat.
Reading #2, it sounds like I'm also being charged on 30 June for my 'new' 30-day cycle. Sooo, I'm basically paying twice for (most of) the month of July?!? W T F.
No, if you have paid until 27 July and re-enter the billing information before that you will be charged for another 30 day period after 27 July.
Originally by: Kull Wahad "3. You will only be able to re-enter billing information if you have less than 30 days on your current subscritpion period. If you have more than 30 days left the system will not allow you to re-enter that information."
That is wrong as I was able to submit my payment details and am now subscribed until 2011! I wasn't due for renewal until March next year. Yet CCP have, by the use of blatant phishing techniques, extracted an immediate payment of 131 euros. That'll help cover the cost of champagne and whalemeat for the next tourni.
Incidentally, why do I have to trawl through the forums to get any proper info on this? And why are only some accounts affected, or will we get emails for the other accounts when CCP runs low again?
As stated earlier, if you wish you can petition and we will reverse the payment. This was done because your account was not yet covered by the change in our billing system, not to get an extra payment from you.
Originally by: Choobakka Could you please clarify something in layman terms?
Let's say I have a 3-month sub which is to be re-newed at July 20. Did I get it right that:
a) If I update my billing info, I will be immediately charged for the next 3 months starting from July 20 and that effectively extends my subscription till October 20?
b) If I don't update my billing info, subscription will be cancelled but account will remain active till July 20 and then I will be still able to login to the account management section of the site, enter my billing info, start a new subscription that way and keep using my accounts?
Also for how long it is possible to re-subscribe if you go for option (b) - basically how long account lives after subscription expires?
Also could you clarify "less than 30 days" and "more than 30 days" (because it does not include exactly 30 days technically) - if sub expires at July 30, will system allow to re-enter info or not?
Both A and B are correct. You'll have to file a petition for an answer to your second question. If your subscription expires on 30 July you will have to re-enter the billing information in 1 July I believe.
Wrangler Senior Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us
If it's stupid but works, it isn't stupid. |
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2009.06.29 13:01:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Question:
How will this affect accounts paid with GTC's?
It won't.
Regarding billing issues posted unrelated to this billing change, please submit petitions in the Billing category and let our GMs handle it.
Wrangler Senior Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us
If it's stupid but works, it isn't stupid. |
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Haral Reimo
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Posted - 2009.06.29 13:53:00 -
[35]
Why have the billing options changed? Prior to this I was paying in USD, now update subscriptions page is trying to charge me in EUR (which is about 40% more expensive at the moment).
Why can't I carry on with the same billing I've been using for the last 3 years?
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2009.06.29 14:14:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Haral Reimo Why have the billing options changed? Prior to this I was paying in USD, now update subscriptions page is trying to charge me in EUR (which is about 40% more expensive at the moment).
Why can't I carry on with the same billing I've been using for the last 3 years?
If you live in Europe you're supposed to pay our Euro pricing plan, if you didn't before then that was an error.
Wrangler Senior Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us
If it's stupid but works, it isn't stupid. |
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RedClaws
Amarr Dragon's Rage Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.06.29 14:26:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Haral Reimo Why have the billing options changed? Prior to this I was paying in USD, now update subscriptions page is trying to charge me in EUR (which is about 40% more expensive at the moment).
Why can't I carry on with the same billing I've been using for the last 3 years?
I would suggest buying GTC's from shatteredcrystal.com for EU ppl tbh.
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Misanth
Reaper Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.29 15:07:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Misanth on 29/06/2009 15:09:26 The whole thing that is happening is this;
* CCP wants billing information updated. That is, your billing information only, nothing else. * Cancelled account is not the same as a suspended account. Your account will still be active, cancelled means the re-curring payment is cancelled.
-> The 1st July date is confusing and the whole cause of alot of people misunderstanding this. -> The other mistake is the usage of "cancelled account". I had to read it a few times to make sure I was understanding it correct as well. This is another great example of why CCP should give up about CSM, cancel it, and invest all that money in some spokesman/customer relations dude that tells the company how to communicate with people. It would be alot easier to just say that the billing information was 'reset' or similar, and would have to be re-entered when the game time is due to run out. The rest is uncessary and/or complicated information.
Hell, I'm an emo swedish dude and I freaking communicate better than they do. And we eat rotten fish and drink mead here too so they can't blame that. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
Haral Reimo
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Posted - 2009.06.29 17:54:00 -
[39]
Originally by: RedClaws I would suggest buying GTC's from shatteredcrystal.com for EU ppl tbh.
At $34.99 per 60 days instead of the $38.85 per quarter I was paying?
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Tezza Sweet
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Posted - 2009.06.29 18:15:00 -
[40]
k so 3 points let try this
1 recived email , 2 went to update details as i have recied the email,,, ah problem my stupid bank blocked the transaction as ccp dont use a uk based payment system (or something like thta dam u halifax) and now account management wont let me update details on account , gd thing ive got 70days of time left eh wrong , not i cant play eve as account has run out of subscritpion time ?
oh and to round off , > . You will only be able to re-enter billing information if you have less than 30 days on your current subscritpion period. If you have more than 30 days left the system will not allow you to re-enter that information
now stop me access trhe update page so even though i got my bank sorted to allow payment , i cant access to payment update page :(((
any suggestions
ps petion already filled as wondered about the email to start with and was assured it wont stop me playing but account aws suspened 6hrs before the GM replied ???
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K'thang
Gallente Ferengi Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.29 19:13:00 -
[41]
Well, I didn't mind that much to re-enter my details as it was 1 day and 4 hours until I was supposed to pay anyhow.
What I do mind is that when I re-entered it on the 26th, the message said I won't get billed again until 28th of July. Then on the 28th of June I get billed again, on both accounts. I check the subscription and it still says I have to pay on the 28th of July. So as far as I can tell I actually paid double for two accounts.
I have created a petition for both accounts though, as I would expect my subs to be extended to end of August.
But something is fishy about the procedure, and not foolproof. |
Marcus Tedric
Gallente Tedric Enterprises The Star League
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Posted - 2009.06.30 10:14:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Marcus Tedric on 30/06/2009 10:15:22 After logging in for 3 accounts (all different billing cycles) - I couldn't see anything to update on any of them.
So I sent a message to the support team.
Then I came here just in case to see if there was a thread - and yes there is.
However: I speak English as a native language; my reading comprehension is excellent and has been for 40+yrs; and I am a fairly clever chap.....
But nothing here makes any sense at all - what is it we're supposed to be doing?????
This original account of mine seems now to even sub'ed until 28th June 2010 - without me doing anything!
So - 'My Account' says all by accounts are active - all the information there seems to be good - can anyone please just tell me - in clear simple English, just what it is we're supposed to be doing..............
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Swedde
Queens of the Stone Age Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.06.30 10:55:00 -
[43]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Originally by: Haral Reimo Why have the billing options changed? Prior to this I was paying in USD, now update subscriptions page is trying to charge me in EUR (which is about 40% more expensive at the moment).
Why can't I carry on with the same billing I've been using for the last 3 years?
If you live in Europe you're supposed to pay our Euro pricing plan, if you didn't before then that was an error.
I live in the UK and I pay with the queens money.. ie can we have an option for ú!
Can we see the part in the terms and condition where you mention this particular issue? and the procedure you are forcing a large part of the community to go through.
Queens are Recruiting - Long live the Queens http://www.pewpew.me or join 'QOTSA' in-game |
Lilja
Caldari Ferengi Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.30 11:05:00 -
[44]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you live in Europe you're supposed to pay our Euro pricing plan, if you didn't before then that was an error.
Well, not all European countries are part of the EU (thankfully) and use the Euro as a currency. |
Swedde
Queens of the Stone Age Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.06.30 11:26:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Swedde on 30/06/2009 11:26:56 honestly the more I think about this then more of a scam it feels like!
I will today write to the a few consumer orientated TV/radio programs + contact Which.co.uk to get a feel for the legitimacy of this stunt, my wife used to work there so I have some good contacts.
As long as CCP continues to fall short of a clear statement on this issue and as to the reasons and regulations of the matter - I will continue this endeavour.
Queens are Recruiting - Long live the Queens http://www.pewpew.me or join 'QOTSA' in-game |
Marcus Tedric
Gallente Tedric Enterprises The Star League
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Posted - 2009.06.30 12:51:00 -
[46]
Well, all is revealed. This therefore is the text of the mail as I would have sent it....
"Dear Username '********',
As from the 1 Jul 09 we are changing our billing system. In order to continue playing after this date, when your next billing cycle occurs, you will need to re-enter your Subscription Plan information (even if your Account details are current and up to date). You will not be able to update your details until you have less than 30 days remaining, if you are on a 3 or 12 month plan.
One of the consequences of this is that you will now be charged in the correct currency for your billing area, if this was not being done before.
Please logon direct to the Account Management area of the main EVE-Online website and do not use any unauthorised links.
Regards
There - it isn't that hard!
PS - funnily enough this account was charged on the 28th June - and therefore I cannot change anything for nearly a year!
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Lord Jarke
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Posted - 2009.06.30 13:04:00 -
[47]
Btw sorry to bring this up but:
Well there is this free 5 days for EVE also letting you reactivate your account for Ç10. The thing is, can you still reactivate the account at that price after you have used all the free time until the offer valid until date; or do you have to reactivate it during your time to get it at that reduced price?
Thanks for the help. Also, pleae move if this is in the wrong forum.
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2009.06.30 13:23:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Lilja
Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you live in Europe you're supposed to pay our Euro pricing plan, if you didn't before then that was an error.
Well, not all European countries are part of the EU (thankfully) and use the Euro as a currency.
You'll have to contact Customer Support for a definitive answer on what applies to the country you live in.
Originally by: Swedde Edited by: Swedde on 30/06/2009 11:26:56 honestly the more I think about this then more of a scam it feels like!
I will today write to the a few consumer orientated TV/radio programs + contact Which.co.uk to get a feel for the legitimacy of this stunt, my wife used to work there so I have some good contacts.
As long as CCP continues to fall short of a clear statement on this issue and as to the reasons and regulations of the matter - I will continue this endeavour.
We are moving from an old billing system to a new billing system. Over time we have made sure everyone who updated their billing information, as well as new customers, enter the new billing system. At this point we are left with an amount of our most loyal subscribers who have not updated their subscriptions for a long time and are still in the old billing system. For your safety the credit card information is stored according to the Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard, which means we can't simply move over the billing details ourselves. That is a good thing though because it makes the whole billing system a lot safer for everyone.
Wrangler Senior Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us
If it's stupid but works, it isn't stupid. |
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K'thang
Gallente Ferengi Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.30 13:45:00 -
[49]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler We are moving from an old billing system to a new billing system. Over time we have made sure everyone who updated their billing information, as well as new customers, enter the new billing system. At this point we are left with an amount of our most loyal subscribers who have not updated their subscriptions for a long time and are still in the old billing system. For your safety the credit card information is stored according to the Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard, which means we can't simply move over the billing details ourselves. That is a good thing though because it makes the whole billing system a lot safer for everyone.
I don't think anyone mind you moving to a new and possibly improved billing system, its the adverse effects it seems to have that we somewhat mind. Like double-billing, which was my experience and some others, for example.
I trust you can guarantee that such things will be sorted out, yes? I am not sure how long the petition queue is for Billing issues, but it's more than 24 hours so far ;) |
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2009.06.30 14:06:00 -
[50]
Originally by: K'thang I don't think anyone mind you moving to a new and possibly improved billing system, its the adverse effects it seems to have that we somewhat mind. Like double-billing, which was my experience and some others, for example.
I trust you can guarantee that such things will be sorted out, yes? I am not sure how long the petition queue is for Billing issues, but it's more than 24 hours so far ;)
The GMs working on billing will handle each petition in the order they came in, though I don't know how long the queue is right now. It may also take some time for them to do research on various cases. But once they get to your petition they will help you sort it out and correct any errors.
Wrangler Senior Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us
If it's stupid but works, it isn't stupid. |
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Tezza Sweet
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Posted - 2009.06.30 20:17:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Tezza Sweet on 30/06/2009 20:18:05 so those sof us who are locked out of there account cos the billing system screwed something up > ie
i have 67 days left in sub , i say have instead of had as it seem the amount of time i got left on my sub is going down even though my account is stuck and wont let me update or log in
i hope ppl in this situation will get the time "withheld" from them back
Subscription Status: Suspended Reactivate Closed by servlet 6/26/2009 8:10:00 AM
its what shows currnelty , but trying to update comes up with the "you have more then 30days come back later to re-sub"
so thats 5days 13hrs and counting
ps clikcing the "change payment method " does not give a CC option for me and when i go to show card details there are none
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PrettyPink Pirate
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Posted - 2009.06.30 22:06:00 -
[52]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
3. You will only be able to re-enter billing information if you have less than 30 days on your current subscritpion period. If you have more than 30 days left the system will not allow you to re-enter that information.
This seems to be not true, atleast for me. I went to update my information today and was presented with the message that i have more than 30 days remaining etc, but it did let me change the information anyway and after i completed the form the time was correctly added up. Only thing i can think of is the fact that i didn't actually change my plan, meaning i chose the same plan i already had before and thus basicaly ended up just buying some extra gametime. I'd like to hear if what happened to me was a bug or not, and if it was a bug if it will affect my subscription in any way.
P.S For clarification i'd like to add that said message appeared right at the top of the page with the update-form and not as a seperate error page or anything like that. So i didn't do anything to force the change other than ignore that message, fill out the form and hit update ....
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.07.01 04:18:00 -
[53]
I get it now, but your explanation is weird for some reason, Mr. Wrangler. Marcus Tedric makes an excellent summary and I'll try to fix the op as well as I can:
1. On July 1st all of our billing will be done with a new system. If you choose to update your billing information before your subscription ends, you will be automatically charged your current subscription rate and that time will be added to your account. If you're not interested in paying that amount right now, please contact Customer Support in the billing category, they will refund you.
2. If you have not re-entered your billing information by July 1st your subscription will be mislabeled suspended until the end of your billing cycle in which you will update your billing information and resubscribe.
3. You will only be able to re-enter billing information if you have less than 30 days on your subscription period. A courtesy email will remind you again when your account has <30 days and requires updated billing information.
4. The new billing system means some accounts may change what currency they pay. To resolve any problems or ask any questions, please contact Customer Support in the billing category.
5. Any problems will be solved as swiftly as possible via the petition system and we appreciate your patience while we switch our entire billing service. We don't like to harass our customers like this but laws and proper procedure gets in the way of everything nowadays.
I do have a feeling that Marcus Tedric and I are going to be the reason Mr. Wrangler has to suffer through boring PR workshops and meetings where Wrangler gets berated for not being understood by any of the players. Poor Wrangles we still <3 you.
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2009.07.01 07:27:00 -
[54]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
2. If you choose to update your billing information your subscription will be updated which means you will be charged for the next subscription period. So make sure you have money in your account! If you still do it but you're not interested in paying that amount right now, please contact Customer Support in the billing category, they will refund you.
That is a strange approach IMO. How about not charging the customer in the first place, instead of charging and then refunding? Especially if you are unsure about refunding the transaction fees.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
International transaction charges are done by your bank, not by CCP, and I don't believe our policy is to refund those. If you wish to have this transaction refunded you should ask our billing GMs in the petition for a definitive answer though.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
If your subscription expires on 30 July you will have to re-enter the billing information in 1 July I believe.
(Highlighting in bold is from me)
I think people want answers - not guesses. How about stating facts instead of opinions?
And do you actually suggest to write a petition to get a simple yes/no answer, when it takes days to get a response to a petition and pretty sure less than an hour for you to pick up the phone and call someone in your company? Especially since the latter option will probably prevent dozens of petitions all asking the same thing.
IMO this is - once again - an excellent example of "save some (time) now to spend much more (time) later".
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Trader Joeeee
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Posted - 2009.07.01 10:37:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Tezza Sweet Edited by: Tezza Sweet on 30/06/2009 20:18:05 so those sof us who are locked out of there account cos the billing system screwed something up > ie
i have 67 days left in sub , i say have instead of had as it seem the amount of time i got left on my sub is going down even though my account is stuck and wont let me update or log in
i hope ppl in this situation will get the time "withheld" from them back
Subscription Status: Suspended Reactivate Closed by servlet 6/26/2009 8:10:00 AM
its what shows currnelty , but trying to update comes up with the "you have more then 30days come back later to re-sub"
so thats 5days 13hrs and counting
ps clikcing the "change payment method " does not give a CC option for me and when i go to show card details there are none
An alt was used to protect the stupid namely me.
I to have a problem like this in that on my main account which i tryed to update the billing info but could not because it had more then 30days on hte account. Infact i htink it had close to 90 but i degress. I can no longer log into said account because it say there is no time left on the account.
Account ****************** has been disabled Last Login: 2009.06.23 04:13 Number of Visits: **** reason: Account subscription expired!
I do have a petition in on this account for the main but its been about 2 days since i submitted it and have yet to recive a responce to this issue. I only realized that i couldnt log in when i did the petion so i imagen the the account was expired earler then that. I havent tryed the resubing like tezza tho.
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DukeJoost1
The Last Solution Inc
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Posted - 2009.07.01 11:35:00 -
[56]
Edited by: DukeJoost1 on 01/07/2009 11:35:48
Originally by: Tezza Sweet
... , but trying to update comes up with the "you have more then 30days come back later to re-sub" ...
From this message i understand one cannot enter the new data if the subscription has less than 30days to go,
and from my own expierience i know the system will immediatly charge for another period if there are more then 30 days to go.
Thanks I am now fine until december 2009 and paying 40% more.
Please check you web script / program / code thingy !
Fly safe.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.07.01 14:23:00 -
[57]
My other MMO company also changed billing system.
They provided for a completely simple, clear, unequivocable message.
In order to avoid ANY customer inconvenience they suspended accounts being billed at all thru the whole 2 weeks it took them.
The opaque and complicated way this same matter is being handled here grants a call to an attorney. They know what to do. - Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Ms Chief
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Posted - 2009.07.01 14:42:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Ms Chief on 01/07/2009 14:44:15
"Dear Username '********',
As from the 1 Jul 09 we are changing our billing system. In order to continue playing after this date, when your next billing cycle occurs, you will need to re-enter your Subscription Plan information (even if your Account details are current and up to date). You will not be able to update your details until you have less than 30 days remaining, if you are on a 3 or 12 month plan.
One of the consequences of this is that you will now be charged in the correct currency for your billing area, if this was not being done before. Please logon direct to the Account Management area of the main EVE-Online website and do not use any unauthorised links.
Regards"
This is just a ploy to get all the loyal vets that come from uk and other euro zones that only ( as far as i remember) had the option at the time to pay in USD ( the euro was still in its infancy ) to change to paying in euro's a bloody 40% subscription hike
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SweetHips
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Posted - 2009.07.01 20:47:00 -
[59]
Thank you very much CCP for doing NOTHING about this issue
My main account is still suspented and i cant do **** about it
I had 42 days left before next payment , i got the e-mail before the 1st a, but still couldnt update my billing info cause it said --
you have 42 left bla bla bla .., and so on
WTF
I feel scammed because i couldnt / cant update if there are more then 30 days left before the next billing.. So CCP is "stealing" 12 days or so and i cant imagine all the other players that have even more days left¿
BAd handling on this and im still waiting for a response to my petition ..
I got the feeling CCP doesnt care ****...
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Kwanaioo
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Posted - 2009.07.02 00:43:00 -
[60]
After going through the 'official' channels I received this reply from a GM
Quote: Hi there, We have checked that account and showing that the last payment was made on 2009-06-22, and there have not been any charges since. The order Id that this transaction has, appears to coincide with a payment made on 2009-01-30; The last payment made on this account has the order ID of XXXXXXX. Since each payment has to have an order number, and it cannot reuse them, please contact your bank and ask them to check and match the payments and the order numbers. As we have not charged your account twice, please see why there was extra funds taken out of your account.
I just got off the phone with my bank. The charge is being disputed. CCP did indeed charge me double. I hope it was a glitch in the billing system. I also sincerely hope it does not happen again.
This whole billing change thing is one giant fiasco, and the coincidental timing of this can't be ignored. I don't know if it's related or not, but I wouldn't be surprised.
I hope my experience will help the others who had similar ghost charges on their accounts.
Cheers, Kwan
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