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Just Alter
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
127
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was reading the other thread about the mail she sent.
Somebody summed up the whole problem pretty well:
Ranger 1 wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:I stand stand by it all.
Basically we are at war with the goons and the point no one is coming to help us. We have to stand on our own.
CCP won't save is, CSM won't save us, this is Eve. I'm not attacking CCP or CSM, I am saying they aren't in Eve to "save" us. That is the point of this message to my alliance, we need to not roll over and die. This message could go out to any other high sec corp or player that feels that they are under the boot heel of oppression in Eve.
So feel free to take it any way you want. But the fact is, the population of high sec that feels that they are the unfair targets of a certain group of players must rise to face the challenge. There is no help coming. We face this challenge alone.
Practically boilerplate for most cries to rally together during hard times and impossible odds.
Issler The above text, highlighting the pertinent parts, does not equal the below text. Quote:To give you an idea of how screwed up this is in the context of Eve, the allinace hired was Pandemic Legion, what is where the head of the CSM lives,so we are littlerally being attacked by the CSM.Basically Eve is beyond broken.CCP is actually totally supportive of goons and ganking, they think of it as player content. They encourage and support hulkagedon! They actually laugh about miner tears. Unless players join together this summer like they did over CCPs plans to exploit players using microtranactions I can't imagine how most of us could enjoy this game in a year. I'm sorry Issler, but you quite clearly spell out that you believe EVE is beyond broken and that the CSM is directly attacking you through the corps/alliances those representatives hail from, with the insinuation it is because of your stance on CSM related issues. Then you go further asking players to join together as they did against CCP's after the NEX was introduced, which involved protests and mass unsubscription. You may not have meant it to come across that way, which is a bit of a stretch considering how clearly it is written, but either way this is possibly the most irresponsible action I have seen a CSM delegate take so far. I have nothing against you in any way, and support at least the general concept behind some of the things you have spoken out for, but this is most disappointing. I would suggest you get your head on straight about how you make public statements about the CSM if you wish to remain a member of them for your full term. Being outspoken, even critical, is fine... but outright unsubstantiated accusations of persecution and statements that EVE is "beyond broken" shows that your head is not in the right place to be a positive force in the development of the game. Your conduct is bordering on becoming worse than what you have so frequently accused others (including the Mittani) of, namely using your position on the CSM to manipulate people and events to your personal advantage in game. I won't stand for it from any of the other delegates, and after all of your preaching about it I certainly won't stand for it from you.
This is unacceptable.
How can a person be so vile?
CCP was able, with reason, to remove the mittani from the csm.
In that way they set a precedent: people can be removed from the csm.
Issler should be removed too, if anybody was not convinced by these posts/letters alone then they can search these forum, the proof of issler inadequacy to be a part of the csm is clear. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
156
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1
for the lulz There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
243
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Posting in another "I hate Issler" thread.
Issler must be doing it right to get all this hate.
Nothing clever at this time. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor Federal Consensus Outreach
890
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
But wasn't the whole CFC argument before that Mittani shouldn't be removed from the CSM, despite violating the EULA?
What has Issler done? Has s/he violated the EULA or any other CCP-sanctioned terms of service? Or is s/he simply saying something you don't agree with? Mane 614
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Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
55
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Anyone seen Mr. The L0ck yet today ? He's very late. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
White Tree
the boltzmann experience Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
819
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
More like Issler Dunce. Former member of CSM6, Champion of the Gallente Master Race. |
Caldari Citizen 786478786
140
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
As if the flood of tears in the first GOON thread weren't delicious enough, their nut-hugging pets from TEST have arrived to show us all real meaning of whining on the forums. |
Josef Djugashvilis
185
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
One can only hope that Ladie Harlot adds his/her unique balanced take on this anti - Issler thread. You want fries with that? |
TheBreadMuncher
Boxxed Up Industries EPIC Alliance
58
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'll say before what I said on there
TheBreadMuncher wrote:Youd've thought that if Goons didn't want this kind of slander, they'd have voted in their own representative for the CSM or something? Somebody to protect their interests? I mean, the concept of a CSM member slandering other people is obviously completely new!Oh yeah...
I only ever emerge from the shadows when my main is banned. |
Malak Dawnfire
27th Gallentean Fleet
59
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
ISSLER DAINZER IS EXPLOITING SPACE DRUGS TO MAKE PROFITS OFF THE SICK AND WEAKLY!!!! |
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Kehro Urgus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
325
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Deal with it.
Always forgive your enemies - nothing annoys them so much. -- Oscar Wilde
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Alara IonStorm
2180
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Where in her posts does she direct folks to harass a player into committing suicide?
Unless you think being a very annoying acerbic person is equatable. |
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
243
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Caldari Citizen 786478786 wrote:As if the flood of tears in the first GOON thread weren't delicious enough, their nut-hugging pets from TEST have arrived to show us all real meaning of whining on the forums.
Don't forget the -FA- folk. But they are probably still getting permission to post but, I'm sure we'll see them here soon.
Nothing clever at this time. |
Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
755
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Posting in a shitpost thread I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor Federal Consensus Outreach
890
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
As much as certain members of the CFC would like to think otherwise, disagreeing with them is not something that CCP will punish you for. Unlike Mittens, Issler didn't break any rules.
If you don't want Issler to be on the CSM, don't vote for him/her, back a candidate who holds his liquor better and doesn't violate the EULA and generally just be better at politics. Mane 614
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Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
156
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
TheBreadMuncher wrote:I'll say before what I said on there TheBreadMuncher wrote:Youd've thought that if Goons didn't want this kind of slander, they'd have voted in their own representative for the CSM or something? Somebody to protect their interests? I mean, the concept of a CSM member slandering other people is obviously completely new!Oh yeah... Furthermore, the concept of encouraging suicide and cyberbullying is far worse than merely slating the goons... Her posts make me want to /wrists
Does that count? There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Malak Dawnfire
27th Gallentean Fleet
61
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
The forums are in UPROAR over this treacherous act the CSM has pulled and thousands of angry players are filling the streets across the world in protest AND WE SHALL NOT STAND FOR THIS INJUSTICE!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW6wfXPeJTw |
Pok Nibin
Viziam Amarr Empire
146
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
Removing a CSM isn't a precedent. Mitt's departure may have been a first, but it's in their by-laws, or CSM EULA (whatever) which he clearly violated. Furthermore, he was allowed to resign before he was removed. This means he can run again. So, he's not gone.
The one who posted this response to Issler takes the extra step of admonishing and directing a person. That sort of egotistical overbearance rankles me every time I see it. Of course, now and then I do the same thing, but I'm JOKING, and what I suggest people DO is usually physically impossible...and naturally my reaction is to their reaction to my reaction to their reaction....
It's easy to understand Issler's frustration. For now, any new alliance near the Goons are starting the match laying flat on the mat with the Goons hovering overhead. Like Pierre Trudeau once said about the U.S., "When you're a flea living next to an elephant, every sneeze is significant." There really isn't enough in the quotes to clearly understand what went on, or is going on. So, allow me to speculate:
I've watched with great interest the results of Band of Brothers folding. Not to oversimplify, there was some pushing and shoving between three major alliances. Some sort of borders were established more along the lines of the reach of power attainable than it was on someone roundly defeating someone else. So, as much as the Goons like to squawk, they aren't the be-all, end-all out where they live. They seem to have given up on presenting much of a challenge to any null sec competition, and moved their activities to high sec where it can appear to them they're achieving some sort of success.
What people don't seem to realize is the management techniques and sort of personnel that make up the Goons don't lend themselves well to attaining much more than they've attained up to now. (Read some of the threads on ASPD to discover why this is.) Not much is said about the other alliances that seem to be in a position of conquest. At first blush it would seem an easy matter to take advantage of the Goons' shortcomings, of which the Goons are hardly aware. It could be those concerned don't yet realize this.
However, it could be those concerned aren't really concerned. An extended fight with the Goons to overthrow them in particular doesn't seem to be a valid goal for an alliance. If there's no Goon push to push back, why bother? If they've stopped being a threat (if they ever were, and the stronger alliances have said they don't really view the Goons as a threat to them) what would be the point? My point is, given this situation for an alliance to boldly move out into null sec, it might be a good idea to take all this into consideration. You'd have to be well-manned, and well-organized before the move. You'll almost certainly meet immediate resistance. If you're too strong, it's most likely they'll leave you alone. Win the war before it's fought.
All that being said, if you move out there and find yourself beset on all sides with little recourse, it's likely your move was too ambitious. It shouldn't matter if CSMs or GMs or ISDs or the president of Iceland is out there piloting against you. They are what they are, and that is what you'd be up against, regardless of your wishes and desires. Overcoming the fact that some EVE players have been in this game several years longer than others, and are operating with a decided advantage there is sufficient. There'd be no need to use "insider" power to mount a signficant challenge.
Like I said, I appreciate the frustration. The way I see it, any alliance strong enough to mount a challenge to the handful of most powerful alliances is doing it right. EVE may be a sandbox, but that level of play is playing the game. EVE is designed to be played a certain way at that level. The effort to make such a move would be a gargantuan effort - starting out small. And, the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step. Many people may want to do it. Not many will put in the effort it would require. I daresay those alliances out there would welcome a serious challenge to their abilities, organizational strength and membership activity.
TL;DR You're not going to just waltz out to the land of the big dogs and not become someone's lunch. Don't fight it.-á Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs.-á You know you want to. |
Ginseng Jita
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
118
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Quick!
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.......
Somebody call....
...oh good...thank god, somebody had the smarts enough to call the whambulance....I thought this thread needed it. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6908
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:Removing a CSM isn't a precedent. Mitt's departure may have been a firstGǪ It wasn't a first. IIRC, he was the third CSM to be kicked out of office.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
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Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
246
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
White Tree wrote:More like Issler Dunce.
Was almost clever ... almost.
Nothing clever at this time. |
HVAC Repairman
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
37
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:But wasn't the whole CFC argument before that Mittani shouldn't be removed from the CSM, despite violating the EULA?
What has Issler done? Has s/he violated the EULA or any other CCP-sanctioned terms of service? Or is s/he simply saying something you don't agree with? The argument that a certain segment of the player base was using was that the only reason people were throwing a tantrum was because it was the Mittani who did it, not because of what he did. If the leader of EVE Uni had been on the CSM and did the exact same thing, it would have never been an issue. The vast majority of the people who were calling for the Mittani to step down/get banned did not give a **** about the player who was mocked and only used it as a political excuse to go after him. Which to me, is every bit as bad as what Mittens did.
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Pok Nibin
Viziam Amarr Empire
146
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Pok Nibin wrote:Removing a CSM isn't a precedent. Mitt's departure may have been a firstGǪ It wasn't a first. IIRC, he was the third CSM to be kicked out of office. I sit corrected.
Don't fight it.-á Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs.-á You know you want to. |
adam smash
University of Caille Gallente Federation
66
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
REMOVE THE WHOLE CSM
Nothing but another place for null asses to get off on.
O hey, 70% of eve is in HS... LETS HAVE A CSM OF NULL YEP, MAKES SENSE LOLOLOL.
Yes caps were needed for this post. |
Pok Nibin
Viziam Amarr Empire
146
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
HVAC Repairman wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:But wasn't the whole CFC argument before that Mittani shouldn't be removed from the CSM, despite violating the EULA?
What has Issler done? Has s/he violated the EULA or any other CCP-sanctioned terms of service? Or is s/he simply saying something you don't agree with? The argument that a certain segment of the player base was using was that the only reason people were throwing a tantrum was because it was the Mittani who did it, not because of what he did. If the leader of EVE Uni had been on the CSM and did the exact same thing, it would have never been an issue. The vast majority of the people who were calling for the Mittani to step down/get banned did not give a **** about the player who was mocked and only used it as a political excuse to go after him. Which to me, is every bit as bad as what Mittens did. That's the thing. The leader of EVE Uni would never do such a thing. MOST people wouldn't. You're also overlooking the fact that what was done violated Icelandic law - re: Iceland Media Board. MOST people don't get drunk and engage in unlawful activity (then claim being drunk as an excuse.) That CCP allowed Mitt an open mic without a broadcast delay and a kill switch makes them culpable. Don't minimalize this. It isn't a small thing, and it certainly isn't "just because it was Mitt." Though, the fact that it WAS him is more reason why more caution should have been taken by management. Never drink with the customers.
Don't fight it.-á Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs.-á You know you want to. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6908
|
Posted - 2012.05.19 16:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
HVAC Repairman wrote:The argument that a certain segment of the player base was using was that the only reason people were throwing a tantrum was because it was the Mittani who did it, not because of what he did. If the leader of EVE Uni had been on the CSM and did the exact same thing, it would have never been an issue. The vast majority of the people who were calling for the Mittani to step down/get banned did not give a **** about the player who was mocked and only used it as a political excuse to go after him. Which to me, is every bit as bad as what Mittens did. GǪas demonstrated by the fact that the GǣoutrageGǥ came, not when he made his controversial statements, but when he was re-elected chairman.
Pok Nibin wrote:It isn't a small thing, and it certainly isn't "just because it was Mitt." The timing of the whole thing tells a slightly different story, thoughGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
274
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
Does this mean we don't hate mittens anymore? Does anyone know if Issler is a real girl? Maybe next year at fanfest we will get to see some bewbs
They blotted that out. |
Josef Djugashvilis
185
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
HVAC Repairman wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:But wasn't the whole CFC argument before that Mittani shouldn't be removed from the CSM, despite violating the EULA?
What has Issler done? Has s/he violated the EULA or any other CCP-sanctioned terms of service? Or is s/he simply saying something you don't agree with? The argument that a certain segment of the player base was using was that the only reason people were throwing a tantrum was because it was the Mittani who did it, not because of what he did. If the leader of EVE Uni had been on the CSM and did the exact same thing, it would have never been an issue. The vast majority of the people who were calling for the Mittani to step down/get banned did not give a **** about the player who was mocked and only used it as a political excuse to go after him. Which to me, is every bit as bad as what Mittens did.
Partially true I suspect
For those who used it go go after mittens in the political sense, good, mittens would have, quite rightly, done the same if it had been some one else.
Eve is a harsh and brutal game, as mittens now knows to his cost. You want fries with that? |
Alara IonStorm
2187
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪas demonstrated by the fact that the GǣoutrageGǥ came, not when he made his controversial statements, but when he was re-elected chairman.
One thing is followed by the other and therefor is caused by the former.
I wanted some sort of reprimand and never heard about the comment until after. I voted for him before I did.
Some people did it for political reasons (In a video game as silly as it sounds.) but it doesn't change the event.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
6909
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Posted - 2012.05.19 16:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Some people did it for political reasons (In a video game as silly as it sounds.) but it doesn't change the event. No, but it makes their outrage and the baying for blood insincere and hollow and belittles the whole deal even further. Calculated cynicism is a nasty (and very contagious) affliction.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
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