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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
115
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 03:54:00 -
[151] - Quote
Good Hedbergite wrote:How to get carebears to WANT to PvP.
pay them a lot of money to pvp. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
No More Heroes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
187
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 04:27:00 -
[152] - Quote
1. Unplug your +5's
2. Target the nearest ship.
3. F1
4. YES
5. DIAF
6. A killer is born. . |
Zoe Athame
Aliastra Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 04:29:00 -
[153] - Quote
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:**** it. Why not have a PvP arena? You could easily create a believable backstory behind this:
- A CONCORD-controlled system which is 0.0 but with unique conditions;
- System allows nothing larger than Frigates.
- Mechanics that guarantee 1v1 fights only. ie. Any third player that jumps in and tries to rep, web, shoot either party is immediately CONCORDED.
I think this would be a great way to encourage new players to try PvP - albeit a limited form of PvP.
Join RvB today! |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 08:13:00 -
[154] - Quote
Romar Agent wrote:Roime wrote:Romar Agent wrote:... So EVE is played by those who like spaceship games. EVE is played by those who like MMOs. EVE is played by people who like spaceship MMOs. Those are all good reasons to play EVE, but I feel that it didn't exactly answer my question- why only deal with AI in a virtual universe full of real players? Humans create interesting content, provide endless challenges. I enjoy the sensations of victory and defeat, and CPU, a piece of silicon, is unable to give me those. Certainly. I personally play for storylines. In this case storylines embedded into the background of the four large empires. A storyline of slow progression and character development (it could be called grinding standing, but that's maybe half of it). I do know many people play for challenges, play to feel a rush of adrenaline or to win. That's not what drives me, I do not play for challenges. Why? Not sure. I'm basically juggling a work and family life and try to relax by delving into another world then and now. Maybe I don't feel I want to recreate what I can have in life anytime.
Props for putting thought into your answers, I can certainly respect your choices.
Perhaps the way people seek out stress relief is the dividing line here. I need the adrenaline surge to forget work stress and "get away", pvp combat requires intensive concentration and that's the best way for me to relax. Very much like other hobbies, I enjoy pushing myself into situation where full focus is mandatory or **** happens. This also shortens the time needed to relax.
EVE is unique in the way it creates the illusion of danger and risk. I was amazed at the reaction my first pvp encounters caused in me, and immediately hooked - I mean it's damn cheap and comfortable way to get very strong "kicks". I still get a very strong rush every time, and hope it lasts as long as the servers run :)
I can of course appreciate the slower way of immersion you described, just as long as PVE-focused people agree that there is no opt-out from the sandbox and let CCP develop EVE according to their unchanged, 9-year old vision that makes it so unique.
Fly proud!
In the beginning high security space was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
219
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 08:47:00 -
[155] - Quote
The clones system is strange. Maybe just remove it and "auto-clone" everyone so the lore isn't broken. Taking care of clones and the fear most have that all SP can be lost without proper clone may just be a turn off to pvp. EGD: If you jettison what's in your brain, at least expect can flipping. |
Cebiana Antonille
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 09:33:00 -
[156] - Quote
You want carebears to pvp. Well they do, lots and lots of them do, ya just gotta find 'em. My alt is a high sec pvp'r and MANY players up here love to pvp and are always looking for can fights, and other ways to pvp (and I am not talking about noob baiting) What would really jumpstart high sec pvp? pvp systems that we ourselves start pvp'ing in.
For instance INARI would be awesome. It is close enough to Jita so peeps can refit a new ship after a loss. It does not have a high occupancy generally and it is .05 sec so those of you who have taken standing hits can jump in to fight. Unpas is another system that some people are trying to jump start as a pvp system. It is next to Uitra which is a known pvp spot, but since it is a rookie system you can get banned by a cranky GM for tossing out a can.
Inari and Unpas - get the word out and kick a can out |
Jenn Ymor
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.05.21 10:52:00 -
[157] - Quote
I think if carebears want to pvp they will do it on their own terms, when they want and where they want. I encountered quite some pve-bears in my last years, and a surprising number of them at least had some genuine interest in pvp-activities, but were put off for a number of reasons. Some of those are just plain stupid, like believing that a certain number of skillpoints and/or skills is needed, or that you need at least some billions to fund your pvp-urges. Some are just based on a lack of information, like how does the flag system work, criminal flags, security standings and so on, and the willingness to learn more about those systems. And some were introduced to pvp in the wrong way, like you join a starter-corp that gets war decced and play station games all day long. No fun, so some just assume this IS pvp and dismiss it as boring.
I had to take severall attempts at pvp, and in some cases failed miserably. I started in FW, which just didn't work out all to well for newbie that know nothing about basic fleet tactics. Then I took into low with throw away ships and couldn't find fights, 'cause in eve you only attack when you know that your chances are better than your enemies. I got some thrills, but not much experience. Some field trips to Nullsec also didn't work out too well with bubbles on the entry gates.
What is missing is some kind of tutorial for PvP beginners. Sure, player corps can take this place, and many do, but not all carebears want to change corps to learn more about PvP. That's where we should start. |
Jie Jue
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 11:06:00 -
[158] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:I also wish CCP would intorduce a PVP flagging system. This way, if you wanted to PVP wherever you are, you could just flag yourself for PVP. Best idea yet ^^ |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 11:12:00 -
[159] - Quote
Jie Jue wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:I also wish CCP would intorduce a PVP flagging system. This way, if you wanted to PVP wherever you are, you could just flag yourself for PVP. Best idea yet ^^
Stupidest idea ever.
EVE is a virtual world, and that kind of flag would be stupidly unrealistic and immersion-breaking.
Stop thinking in terms of "PVP" and "PVE", it's just EVE. In the beginning high security space was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1033
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 11:43:00 -
[160] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Well that is just stupid, should people once they bought a slave set never fly shield ships? Should people with crystals never fly buffer? I have a very expensive clone with nomads and +6% implants, should I never jump out of a super despite owning a holding toon?
Not to mention the fact that without jump clones no low sec pirate or high sec care bear would ever enter null sec ever again. Huh? They can fly anything they want. If they decide to buy ultra expensive implants but are not fully committed to using ships and modules that are supported by those implants its their own fault. They can switch them out at their own expense. Jump clones make the game too easy and safe. Well that's nice, but since you don't PvP and definitely don't own any capitals (let alone supers/titans) it probably wouldn't be an issue for you. Especially since I find it unlikely you even own any crystal/slave/snake/nomad/virtue sets.
For the rest of us who actually use these implants, and can afford the ships they go with, being locked into only ever flying one or two different ships is a good way to make us get bored and quit.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
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knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 13:32:00 -
[161] - Quote
Pres Crendraven wrote:I think this would create more opportunity for pvp also but since WOW has a flag system, were not allowing ourselves to have it. It would make people that want to fight WOWlike.
Yeah the flag PVP in WoW was awesome |
Burning Furry
Viziam Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 14:04:00 -
[162] - Quote
The biggest issue with PVP is the time sink.
1 hour making isk for the ship 15-30 mins flying around buying modules, fitting, insuring etc. 30 mins hunting for a fight DIAF in 1 min.
This is all well and good for those with hours and hours to burn, but its useless for those with limited playtime.
Please don't say "why it take u so long to earn isk?" or "why you no but mods in builk?" That all assumes i have a maxed character who earns shittons of cash in no time at all, and that i have a bank roll of billions.
The best way to get more carebears, myself included, to participate in PVP is to reduce the time barrier to entry. For someone with at max, 2 hours free time per day, PVP is very far from being a viable option in EVE.
Failing that, i will continue to play games such as World of Tanks where i can load, login, and fight in 3 minutes max. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
527
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 14:12:00 -
[163] - Quote
EVE isn't meant to be a game where you get fights as quickly as you can in deathmatch games like WoT, which is more like a tactical FPS than an MMO. In EVE, kills and losses mean something more than making the win counter go up by one, though we have that too. I'd rather have one good kill in three days, than ten generic ones in an hour.
Time isn't really a factor, since it's easy to efficiently stage multiple ships from a few favorable locations. However, I don't disagree that the cost might be prohibitive to some people; frigate pvp isn't glorious for everyone. Maybe a slight insurance adjustment can be made for cruisers and BCs (or alternatively, drop their mineral requirements a bit). That's as far as I'd be willing to go, however. |
Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 14:44:00 -
[164] - Quote
Another thread trying to convert PvE players to PvP.
Any designer with half a brain knows that is an uphill battle, and pointless since there are millions of PvPers in the world.
The real goal shold be to improve EVE PvP to the point where we draw in more PvPers from other games.
I'm an American, English is my second language... |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 14:48:00 -
[165] - Quote
Bootleg Jack wrote:Another thread trying to convert PvE players to PvP.
Any designer with half a brain knows that is an uphill battle, and pointless since there are millions of PvPers in the world.
The real goal shold be to improve EVE PvP to the point where we draw in more PvPers from other games.
Finally!
Listen to this guy CCP, make all local chat like WH local, halve highsec and turn that into lowsec, create more 0.0, move all ISK incomes above level 3 missions and scordite ORE into lowsec and below, 0.0 and WHs. Improve and build content for 0.0 and lowsec players and make SOV battle and POS management better. Do more balancing and some fixes, improve war system, make it easier, implement the crimewatch changes already and realize how ******* ******** it is to have neuts boost (if they do they should be on grid,) and rep etc.
And a lot more, but it would be a start. |
Burning Furry
Viziam Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 15:24:00 -
[166] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:I'd rather have one good kill in three days, than ten generic ones in an hour.
Nothing generic about using your PZIV to kill an IS! Thats the equivalent of using a cruiser to kill a BS, which i believe fits under the "good kill" category. |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
81
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 16:38:00 -
[167] - Quote
Ituhata Saken wrote:Linna Excel wrote:Add missions that have a slightly higher reward and make people fly in PvP fits, but add a little risk to them: the things they'll be doing will be PvP situations with NPCs that have fits and tactics you'll see. Then put those missions by the borders of low and send people there every now and then.
I like it. If they geared missions to work or take advantage of typical pvp fits, people get familiar with them and if they do run into real players they might actually have a fighting chance that just doesn't exist in most pve builds.
Tougher Pve content is always a winner where I'm concerned, by tougher I'm not saying double the targets putting out double the firepower, that just leads to more tank and more gank but if certain NPC's (Bosses) needed to be pointed and if they used ewar more like in Pvp that would be great, but a huge detriment to the Ninja Salvager profession. what would they do if all the mission runners were Pvp fit. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
652
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 16:41:00 -
[168] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: These people are called carebears for a reason. They will use any excuse, and find any means, to avoid in-game situations that even slightly raise their heart rates.
There is a very good reason for that. Different people have different physiological reactions to adrenaline and The Rush.
The Rush is a good felling one gets with and after a burst of adrenaline associated with an exciting experience, like PvP combat. Not everyone gets The Rush. Some get no pleasure from adrenaline, and some actually feel bad or sick from it. According to Dr. Drew Pinsky, the difference between these people is genetic. You are born to get The Rush, or you are not. The result is some players will not enjoy PvP and actively seek to avoid it, and no amount of game tweaking will change that, because game tweaking will not change their genes. After all this is a game, people will tend to avoid game activities that make them sick. Instead they do cooperative activities, industry, missions and the like, or just play as solo players.
People who do not get The Rush can also enjoy activities like fishing, a sport that is more popular that any computer game, even WoW. Or puzzle games, or solitaire, or Golf (one of the most popular pastimes on the planet). These players like an activity that occupies the mind, is relaxing, and gives one a gentle feeling of accomplishment as they watch the isk pile up. For them, a certain amount of repetition is not boring, its reassuring and relaxing.
A much better thing to do with carebears is find a way that they can play their game in peace so they can provide a steady stream of income to CCP, allowing CCP to improve the game.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
81
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 16:43:00 -
[169] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Bluddwolf wrote:I also wish CCP would intorduce a PVP flagging system. This way, if you wanted to PVP wherever you are, you could just flag yourself for PVP. Thanks for ruining my game.
I don't see how that would ruin anything if you can flag yourself as a concord free target in Highsec, should make more ships go boom and isn't that the main goal? Of course it would lessen the need for the Pvp starved to leave highsec which I know peeves the losec, nullsec crowd. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
535
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 23:03:00 -
[170] - Quote
Zyress wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Bluddwolf wrote:I also wish CCP would intorduce a PVP flagging system. This way, if you wanted to PVP wherever you are, you could just flag yourself for PVP. Thanks for ruining my game. I don't see how that would ruin anything if you can flag yourself as a concord free target in Highsec, should make more ships go boom and isn't that the main goal? Of course it would lessen the need for the Pvp starved to leave highsec which I know peeves the losec, nullsec crowd. Because the main goal of all those seeking pvp is to have their own ships destroyed, am I right? |
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Averyia
Ciera Kimoto
37
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 23:36:00 -
[171] - Quote
I think the biggest issue is when game performance drops drastically and for no reason, and its not just me, it makes playing the game difficult when the cursor and UI is moving at 10 fps. All warfare is based on deception and logistics. Battles and soldiers are secondary priorities. |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 14:56:00 -
[172] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Zyress wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Bluddwolf wrote:I also wish CCP would intorduce a PVP flagging system. This way, if you wanted to PVP wherever you are, you could just flag yourself for PVP. Thanks for ruining my game. I don't see how that would ruin anything if you can flag yourself as a concord free target in Highsec, should make more ships go boom and isn't that the main goal? Of course it would lessen the need for the Pvp starved to leave highsec which I know peeves the losec, nullsec crowd. Because the main goal of all those seeking pvp is to have their own ships destroyed, am I right?
If you are afraid then don't flag yourself, if not and you want to fight then flag yourself and go search for other flagged pvpers. Thats simple enough. People not flagged for pvp would draw a concord response for attacking a non war target in hisec like they always have. Flagging yourself for pvp would not change that. Only people flagged for pvp could fight without drawing a concord response. Otherwise its suicide ganking or attempted anyway. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
752
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:16:00 -
[173] - Quote
Zyress,
have you considered jumping thru a stargate leading out from high security space, or a wormhole?
If you insist, there you can imagine that you are waving a flag from your window.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
110
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:20:00 -
[174] - Quote
You release a patch that changes the UI and frustrates you and makes you want to do anything that doesn't involve it. Well done CCP . |
Arcticblue2
Nordic Freelancers inc
44
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:26:00 -
[175] - Quote
Why on earth would you need pve'ers to do more pvp ? I see some wants to move pve-contents into low-sec and 0.0 that's does not create pvp'ers, and quite honestly does not seems to be constructive other than trying to get more easy targets to pod. |
Calm Breeze
Treasures Collectors Solar Citizens
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:31:00 -
[176] - Quote
Why do you want to MAKE carebears PvP? How would you like it if we wanted to make PvP'ers mine? If we don't want to PvP, then we won't, it's our choice, life is full of choices and decisions, and I for one don't need someone else making mine! And yeah, I know all about non-consensual PvP once you log into the game, in those conditions I will fight, as best I can, but I will NOT be forced into being a PvP'er just because someone wants me to. |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:37:00 -
[177] - Quote
Roime wrote:Zyress,
have you considered jumping thru a stargate leading out from high security space, or a wormhole?
If you insist, there you can imagine that you are waving a flag from your window.
Been there done that, terribly uninteresting. |
Kara Vix
Vinegar Flies Peregrine Nation
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:10:00 -
[178] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote: These people are called carebears for a reason. They will use any excuse, and find any means, to avoid in-game situations that even slightly raise their heart rates. There is a very good reason for that. Different people have different physiological reactions to adrenaline and The Rush. The Rush is a good felling one gets with and after a burst of adrenaline associated with an exciting experience, like PvP combat. Not everyone gets The Rush. Some get no pleasure from adrenaline, and some actually feel bad or sick from it. According to Dr. Drew Pinsky, the difference between these people is genetic. You are born to get The Rush, or you are not. The result is some players will not enjoy PvP and actively seek to avoid it, and no amount of game tweaking will change that, because game tweaking will not change their genes. After all this is a game, people will tend to avoid game activities that make them sick. Instead they do cooperative activities, industry, missions and the like, or just play as solo players. People who do not get The Rush can also enjoy activities like fishing, a sport that is more popular that any computer game, even WoW. Or puzzle games, or solitaire, or Golf (one of the most popular pastimes on the planet). These players like an activity that occupies the mind, is relaxing, and gives one a gentle feeling of accomplishment as they watch the isk pile up. For them, a certain amount of repetition is not boring, its reassuring and relaxing. A much better thing to do with carebears is find a way that they can play their game in peace so they can provide a steady stream of income to CCP, allowing CCP to improve the game.
This is one of the most well thought out posts I have read on this train wreck of a forum. I agree with you entirely. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
657
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:16:00 -
[179] - Quote
The difference between a high sec PvP flag and just going to low sec:
No interference from gate guns. No capitals.
Edit: Part of the new crimewatch system is a dueling system. This would be a PvP flag to just one other person. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Damien Valdes
Romex Inc. Dustm3n
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:24:00 -
[180] - Quote
Maybe if you're bothered by how someone else plays a game they are paying for, EVE is not for you.
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