Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Good Hedbergite
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 01:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm a new player (9M SP) returning after a two year hiatus. It seems the carebear vs PvPer mentalities haven't changed one bit, so I've come up with an idea that could encourage new players and carebears to actually WANT to get more involved with PvP and it's simple - hands on training!
The biggest part of the problem is that most noobs and carebears don't know how to fight and learning is a huge time and ISK investment they don't feel like making.
This time around, I'm much more interested in PvPing (I was a carebear last time) - so I don't mind spending the time and ISK - but here's the typical scenario for getting some practice at PvP:
Build a ship - 15-30 minutes Fly to an area and hunt for a semi-fair fight - 15-30+ minutes Fight and die - approx 3-5 minutes
So roughly an hour+ investment for 3-minutes of actual "fight training" - which is fine if you WANT to be a PvPer. If you're a carebear, it's a pain in the butt, a timesink, and all risk with no reward.
So? Where am I going with this - some type of training/arena area. This would build CONFIDENCE in new players and carebears and after a few arena-style fights (ie. 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, or 5v5) - they would get tired of "practice" fights and be excited to get out there and actually participate in the real-deal.
There would be NO REWARDS - by doing so it would eliminate the possibility that people just login and fight in arena style situations. It certainly wouldn't pull existing PvPer's in, as they're already trained and can fight for REAL and make some great ISK by doing so... In fact, it would probably be a good idea to limit the number of fights to 1-2 per day so as to prevent the system from 'stealing' already existing PvPers away from real battle.
I could envision the ability to zone into a battleground type situation and purchase a standard pre-fit type of ship. If you want to learn electronic warfare, you could grab a Blackbird (or equivalent) with standard ECM gear equipped and go learn how to USE it against other players. You would also be able to learn to fly in a fleet in the 5v5 variations and learn the value of having a couple of frigs, an ECM boat, and a few BC/BS's.
This 1. gets rid of the time spent building ships and hunting for a fight 2. builds the desire and confidence of noobs and carebears to defend themselves and actually get more involved in the PvP world instead of crying about it and 3. would allow players to learn new types of ships and the 'stock' fittings associated with that playstyle before they dive into combat and get their ass handed to them.
Again, in no way would I want to see this system distract from the 'real-life' PvP that occurs - but it would be a great option for new players and carebears to learn and build confidence on HOW to participate in both solo and gang warfare. After a handful of skirmishes in a new type of boat, most players would be WANTING to get out there in 'real-life- and try it out in a genuine battle.
I'm interested in hearing thoughts on both how this idea could be better and implemented without impacting the natural flow of the 'real-world' in EvE - and also, feel free to punch holes in the idea as I'm sure there are reprecussions I'm not even thinking about.
Thanks for reading. |
Takseen
University of Caille Gallente Federation
185
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 01:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Its not technically designed for it, but SiSi the testing server offers a lot of the features you requested.
-cheap ships -no real penalties for dying -lots of designated fighty areas
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
483
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 01:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Arenas simply don't belong in EVE. As special events, sure, but not as a feature. For that, we have the test server.
In my opinion, a much better method would be to tie pvp into missions. Not that that would change much, since they'd just stop running missions anyway. These people are called carebears for a reason. They will use any excuse, and find any means, to avoid in-game situations that even slightly raise their heart rates. |
Klavis lychnuchus
Hotel Charlie
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 01:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
What we need are Tax bracket options for corpies, so a 23.5/7 rater has no barrier for entry to the corps and is left to do just what he loves but at a much higher tax rate. He Can rat all day everyday earning meaningful income from a Corp he would otherwise just be leaching from.
Those with the ambition and ability to defend themselves can do so too and pay less tax and be confident in a Corporations ship replacement program to be fit for purpose.
|
Knus'lar
Deep Void Industrial Group T A B O O
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 01:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think the BEST way to get carebears to want to pvp is to take them and put them through a crucible of violence. Blow them up so much they harden into tough pirates |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
483
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 01:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I think the BEST way to get carebears to want to pvp is to take them and put them through a crucible of violence. Blow them up so much they harden into tough pirates A lot of the people I've violenced over the years were originally carebears, and became bloodthirsty motherfuckers after I've had my way with them. Some have even become my most skilled and trusted EVE friends. Still, many more have left the game entirely after taking minor losses. That says a lot about the character of gamers nowadays. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 01:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:These people are called carebears for a reason. They will use any excuse, and find any means, to avoid in-game situations that even slightly raise their heart rates.
So, if I want to sit in safespot cloaked, I'm risk-averse carebear. It's not my job to help other people to destroy my ship. It's their job to find me. |
Red Teufel
Blackened Skies THE UNTHINKABLES
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 01:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
it's called faction warfare. Though if corps or groups of people who are new to pvp want training and a home should contact me. |
Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 02:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I think the BEST way to get carebears to want to pvp is to take them and put them through a crucible of violence. Blow them up so much they harden into tough pirates
You were toilet trained at gunpoint, weren't you? |
James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1734
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 02:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quote:How to get carebears to WANT to PvP! No.
You've missed the whole point of non-consensual PvP. It doesn't matter if they want to PvP or not, just shoot them. |
|
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1472
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 02:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
If people want to be carebears, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that - no need to try turning into something different - actually eve needs people mining all the trit.
The only problem with them is the insane amount of isk the mission running/highsec incursion fraction of them is spilling into the economy without them actually needing any isk - they don't need to replace any ships after all.
Yes - some of them may be alts of nullsec players who need the money to fund their pvp, but then, that raises the question why people have alts in highsec to fund their nullsec lives.
Nerf highsec bounties.
edit:
James 315 wrote:Quote:How to get carebears to WANT to PvP! No. You've missed the whole point of non-consensual PvP. It doesn't matter if they want to PvP or not, just shoot them.
There is no non-consensual PvP in Eve - you consent when you log on. You know... morons. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1023
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 02:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Klavis lychnuchus wrote:What we need are Tax bracket options for corpies, so a 23.5 / 7 PVE monkey has no barrier for entry to the corps and is left to do just what he loves but at a much higher tax rate. He can rat/mission/plex all day everyday earning meaningful income for a Corp he would otherwise just be leaching from.
Those with the ambition and ability to defend themselves can do so too and pay less tax and be confident in a Corporations ship replacement program to be fit for purpose.
As a useful corallary they would perhaps take more interest in defending corp assets if they get put on a lower tax rate! If a player is running complexes/wormholes/mining you set all the taxes you want. The money you get from them would be pitifull.
Besides, this system is already kind of put in place. The 23/7 PvE ***** gets kicked, joins a renter corp. The renter corp pays money that goes to the PvP corps/alliances.
(admittedly the issue with this is that all that money goes straight to alliance leaders. And quite a few alliances are well known for having ISK quietly go missing, or for having leaders that just unashamedly steal.)
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Fredfredbug4
The Scope Gallente Federation
318
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 02:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
No, arena style PVP has proven to only discourage people from actually PVPing. The best example is runescape. People use to PVP all the time in the very large PVP area, but when it was reduced to just one arena it practically killed the the activity and about half of people's interest in that already ****** up game.
The reasons why arena PVP does not work are...
1. Everyone is clustered in one area making it a free for all with no thought or strategy. Think of first shaky cam clusterfuck in the Hunger Games movie. It's a lot like that. Everyone is dropping dead but nobody knows what the hell is going on.
2. It creates a larger skill/money gap. Because of the clusterfuck in arena PVP, the only people who stand a chance making it out alive are those with high skill levels and a lot of cash to afford the best gear. People already complain that there is a skill/isk gap preventing new players from getting into PVP, what more when new players stand no chance?
3. It gives a false perception of what PVP in this game actually is. There is a lot of coordination, time, effort and strategy to PVP in this game. Even blob warfare requires proper group coordination and making the right opponents primary. Just going to kill each other is not how PVP works in most MMOs. Also, with no rewards and no risks it encourages doing stupid things, something that will punish you severely in real PVP
4. It draws away from open ended PVP. Why spend 30 minutes trying to find a fair fight when you can jump into a mosh pit and be guaranteed to kill or be killed within the next 2 minutes? |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
485
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 02:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:If people want to be carebears, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that - no need to try turning into something different - actually eve needs people mining all the trit. I would agree with this statement, if not for the fact that they're having a whole lot of success pressuring CCP to make massive concessions, and in turn changing the game into something it probably shouldn't be. |
Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 02:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Add missions that have a slightly higher reward and make people fly in PvP fits, but add a little risk to them: the things they'll be doing will be PvP situations with NPCs that have fits and tactics you'll see. Then put those missions by the borders of low and send people there every now and then.
Large Collidable Object wrote:actually eve needs people mining all the trit.
Bring back gunmining and remove traditional mining. That'll give you trit. I <3 Vexors. |
Ituhata Saken
Crimson Cross Destroyers
43
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 02:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Linna Excel wrote:Add missions that have a slightly higher reward and make people fly in PvP fits, but add a little risk to them: the things they'll be doing will be PvP situations with NPCs that have fits and tactics you'll see. Then put those missions by the borders of low and send people there every now and then.
I like it. If they geared missions to work or take advantage of typical pvp fits, people get familiar with them and if they do run into real players they might actually have a fighting chance that just doesn't exist in most pve builds. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1472
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 02:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote:If people want to be carebears, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that - no need to try turning into something different - actually eve needs people mining all the trit. I would agree with this statement, if not for the fact that they're having a whole lot of success pressuring CCP to make massive concessions, and in turn changing the game into something it probably shouldn't be.
Yes - the highsec whiners and their continued success pose a problem. And yes - hulkageddon is perfectly justified for the rampant macroing (it's not even botting) that is still going on there.
However, a Tengugeddon would be the best thing that could possibly happen to eve. You know... morons. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 02:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Arena ideas have been brought up over and over again, then shut down by people who don't want to see pvp happen...
The population of RvB indicates there's actually a big demand for pvp, just not the hours of roaming/camping/grinding before it. The next time you think of "forcing" carebears to pvp, realize that you won't have to, they already want it. It's actually a matter of forcing the hours of boredom before it onto them, and it's not going to work.
Hours of waiting before a few minutes of pvp, in any other game, would be considered a failure, to be fixed immediately. In Eve, it's called a sandbox, one that's ignored by 90% of the population deemed by the remaining 10% to be "carebears." |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
223
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 02:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
My opinion on arena style PvP is fairly simple and I'll stick by it: I don't want to see arenas in EVE; that is, places where people commit to consensual PvP with no cost or risk factor.
I wouldn't however mind if they made SiSi more accessible, or as an alternative, introduced station tactical simulations which opened up PvP onboard stations that provided instances of space from the EVE universe for people to PvP in. This should come with a cost however, such as a Training simulator registration fee and match fee.
Basic cost to register woul be simple enough, (maybe 1-10 million ISK or roughly the cost of a cruiser loss), and Match Fees could be roughly 1 Million ISK per 10 minute period. This allows control over the ISK sink for the player and provides a 'simulation' which the player then has a choice to enroll in vs. opponents he/she can choose from.
Essentially, you are introducing an ISK Sink coupled with a simulator in an environment that doesn't affect killboards or require asset purchase and/or loss. Additional fees for access to T2 or meta modules, Faction, complex, officer fittings and even special shiptypes could apply, but you never actually own anything and all you are doing is sinking ISK into a training simulator.
Might be fun and it keeps the arenas out of EVE, even if some people may consider this an arena. You could have leaderboards and the like too which might be a little bit of fun, and add some competition to it rather like a virtual bloodsport within EVE that some players try to get to the top rankings in. Auction - EVE Rogues Alliance [ROGUE]: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1215438#post1215438-á-á~ Auction starts @ 20 Million ISK. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
486
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 02:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:The population of RvB indicates there's actually a big demand for pvp, just not the hours of roaming/camping/grinding before it. The next time you think of "forcing" carebears to pvp, realize that you won't have to, they already want it. It's actually a matter of forcing the hours of boredom before it onto them, and it's not going to work. They want it, eh?
So you're saying that spending time to hunt for targets is boring, but repeating the same hand motion to drop the same quantity of minerals from the cargohold to a container over and over again for hours isn't? Is that your argument? |
|
Pres Crendraven
30
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 02:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
I'm not sure you can turn carebears into PVP'er but I'm pretty sure you can turn PVP'er into carebears.
Crows used to **** prolifically on my van back in the nineties, so I posted an owl when ever I parked in the parking lot. In a couple of days they became very irreverent towards it as if to prove that it wasn't scary. One day I parked and posted the owl and hid in the van with the rear door ajar. As they began to rage and approach, I shot one with a high powered pellet rifle. The screaming became intense so I shot another. About half flew away. The rest continued to rage about their two dead comrades so I shot another. More flew away. Now out of an initial flock of perhaps 200, there were only about six or eight left to raise ruckus. I shot another, they all went away. For the next few years that I used that parking lot, there was no crow **** on my van. They didn't know how the owl was doing it but they knew that the owl's presence meant dead crow. Meta34me
Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
674
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 03:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Broken, old out dated, we didn't know how to create meaningful awesome content that is just the age old adaptation of other MMO's
Camping
Yup...broken and boring as ****.
1. Jump through a gate, align with a fast frigate...BLAM! by a high sensor resolution battleship supported by 3 other ships. Total time - 3 seconds
2. Set out, turn off safe route though lowsec as its only 8 jumps with 3 through lulz, tell yourself WTZ all the way as your in a fast align frig...BLAM! Land in a smartbomb battleship on the last incoming jump gate. Total time - 45 minutes
3. Spend three hours looking for an area to do PI using Dotlan, Last 24 hour ships destroyed, Last 24 hour pod destroyed,, load up the industrial and not even 3 jumps in...BLAM! Total time - 5 hours
End result...******* waste of time everytime. Sensor resolution and choke points to create meaningful content...only to lose in seconds short of the week and months spent training for your ships because EVE is not in fact space...its just perch points on select areas where no matter what direction you take and scout it all you want...there is always a guy down the hall with a shotgun waiting to shoot you in the face with it since CCP's brilliant niche game from 2003 is about as dated as EQ1. Try as you might, every trick short of the MWD+Cloak fails...so in fact the game fails since its so simple to up sensor resolution and someone always wins against you everytime. Why try entering the rest of the game, sure you can replace cheap ass ships...but you cannot replace the waste of time spent getting the isk to buy those ships and its just a waste of time to try enter space nobody wants you to enter since they want you their by demanding CCP move level 4s but infact they don't want you there since all they want are targets but it couldn't be those guys fault nobody goes there since all they do is shoot people (Predator vs Prey - wipe out the prey in a given area you will kill yourself since you can't force a prey into your hunting grounds) |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
697
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 04:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Good Hedbergite wrote:I'm a new player (9M SP) returning after a two year hiatus. It seems the carebear vs PvPer mentalities haven't changed one bit, so I've come up with an idea that could encourage new players and carebears to actually WANT to get more involved with PvP and it's simple - hands on training!
The biggest part of the problem is that most noobs and carebears don't know how to fight and learning is a huge time and ISK investment they don't feel like making.
This time around, I'm much more interested in PvPing (I was a carebear last time) - so I don't mind spending the time and ISK - but here's the typical scenario for getting some practice at PvP:
Build a ship - 15-30 minutes Fly to an area and hunt for a semi-fair fight - 15-30+ minutes Fight and die - approx 3-5 minutes
So roughly an hour+ investment for 3-minutes of actual "fight training" - which is fine if you WANT to be a PvPer. If you're a carebear, it's a pain in the butt, a timesink, and all risk with no reward.
So? Where am I going with this - some type of training/arena area. This would build CONFIDENCE in new players and carebears and after a few arena-style fights (ie. 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, or 5v5) - they would get tired of "practice" fights and be excited to get out there and actually participate in the real-deal.
There would be NO REWARDS - by doing so it would eliminate the possibility that people just login and fight in arena style situations. It certainly wouldn't pull existing PvPer's in, as they're already trained and can fight for REAL and make some great ISK by doing so... In fact, it would probably be a good idea to limit the number of fights to 1-2 per day so as to prevent the system from 'stealing' already existing PvPers away from real battle.
I could envision the ability to zone into a battleground type situation and purchase a standard pre-fit type of ship. If you want to learn electronic warfare, you could grab a Blackbird (or equivalent) with standard ECM gear equipped and go learn how to USE it against other players. You would also be able to learn to fly in a fleet in the 5v5 variations and learn the value of having a couple of frigs, an ECM boat, and a few BC/BS's.
This 1. gets rid of the time spent building ships and hunting for a fight 2. builds the desire and confidence of noobs and carebears to defend themselves and actually get more involved in the PvP world instead of crying about it and 3. would allow players to learn new types of ships and the 'stock' fittings associated with that playstyle before they dive into combat and get their ass handed to them.
Again, in no way would I want to see this system distract from the 'real-life' PvP that occurs - but it would be a great option for new players and carebears to learn and build confidence on HOW to participate in both solo and gang warfare. After a handful of skirmishes in a new type of boat, most players would be WANTING to get out there in 'real-life- and try it out in a genuine battle.
I'm interested in hearing thoughts on both how this idea could be better and implemented without impacting the natural flow of the 'real-world' in EvE - and also, feel free to punch holes in the idea as I'm sure there are reprecussions I'm not even thinking about.
Thanks for reading.
Its called the test server, it does everything you want described here and even cuts the time from build to pvp to mere seconds.
You should look into it
|
EvEa Deva
State War Academy Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 07:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Dead OP in the 2 years you were gone this subject has been beaten to death
Turns out this is a sandbox game and forcing a playstyle on people don't work.
The End |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
655
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 07:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
EvEa Deva wrote:Dead OP in the 2 years you were gone this subject has been beaten to death
Turns out this is a sandbox game and forcing a playstyle on people don't work.
The End
But you can bet that CCP Goonwave will keep trying. EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 15% Nullsec; 72% Highsec. CSM 7: 1 highsec resident out of 14.-á
CSM demographics vs EVE demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
207
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 07:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
Good Hedbergite wrote:How to get carebears to WANT to PvP!
Work the shaft OBVIOUSLY! EVE shall be purged by fire - please Gods let them ALL burn in Jita. |
Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
474
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 08:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
Why the hell would you want Carebears to PvP? If PvP is so damned popular, it would seem there's enough of you out there to PvP your little hearts out. This is way past ridiculous. Maybe what is needed is for some people to get off the junk food and get on the BRAIN food. Anyone with any sense has already left town. |
Romar Agent
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 08:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote:If people want to be carebears, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that - no need to try turning into something different - actually eve needs people mining all the trit. I would agree with this statement, if not for the fact that they're having a whole lot of success pressuring CCP to make massive concessions, and in turn changing the game into something it probably shouldn't be. What does stop you, or what does stop any PVPer to try to get the same political clout with CCP? (If that clout even exists, which I doubt.) |
Romar Agent
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 08:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
Romar Agent wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote:If people want to be carebears, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that - no need to try turning into something different - actually eve needs people mining all the trit. I would agree with this statement, if not for the fact that they're having a whole lot of success pressuring CCP to make massive concessions, and in turn changing the game into something it probably shouldn't be. What does stop you, or what does stop any PVPer to try to get the same political clout with CCP? (If that clout even exists, which I doubt.) It would be consensual political PVP |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
492
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 08:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
Romar Agent wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote:If people want to be carebears, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that - no need to try turning into something different - actually eve needs people mining all the trit. I would agree with this statement, if not for the fact that they're having a whole lot of success pressuring CCP to make massive concessions, and in turn changing the game into something it probably shouldn't be. What does stop you, or what does stop any PVPer to try to get the same political clout with CCP? (If that clout even exists, which I doubt.) We try, but there's simply more of them. They start playing a new game, do so just long enough to ruin it, and then move on without any second thoughts or regrets. We are left to pick up the pieces and rebuild.
Do you think the people who whined about the privateers, for example, still play? I still have hundreds of war targets saved on one of my contact lists from as far back as 2008/2009, and believe me, I only see the bear ones sign on every blue moon. The pvper ones on the other hand... |
|
Romar Agent
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 09:05:00 -
[31] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:We try, but there's simply more of them. They start playing a new game, do so just long enough to ruin it, and then move on without any second thoughts or regrets. We are left to pick up the pieces and rebuild.
Do you think the people who whined about the privateers, for example, still play? I still have hundreds of war targets saved on one of my contact lists from as far back as 2008/2009, and believe me, I only see the bear ones sign on every blue moon. The pvper ones on the other hand... Then redefine the threat and act accordingly. The problem is not PVEers and what they want - it's that there are more PVEers than PVPers so the former add more weight to their wants.
Now I can sympathise with the idea of turning a PVEer into a PVPers because for every one you adjust the scales by two, but honestly, most people will not readily change the way they want to play the game.
So perhaps better invest those ressources into getting more PVPers into EVE?
Sure, some may be lost by the possibly high rewards for PVE. But as we already know we probably cannot change that, because there are more PVEers equaling more political weight.
So bring in even more PVPers. |
Romar Agent
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 09:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
... one day, I'll petition for removal of those quote-buttons ... *mumble mumble* |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 09:24:00 -
[33] - Quote
Nobody need actual non-stop PvP in EVE in form of arenas with free ships because it doesn't have potential to force you into carebear activities. Arenas may turn EVE into World of Tanks: million(s) of people killing each other non-stop for free without any preparations. No craft, no scams, no exploration, no mining, no ratting, no corp taxes - just shooting. Nobody want boring game like that - except for 25 millions of WoT players. |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 09:58:00 -
[34] - Quote
cut highsec in half, turn that into new lowsec, nerf highsec based income so much only new and broke players would live there, or use as income stream unless trading/hauling, bufff income in lowsec and 0.0/wh, make gate guns in lowsec stronger and around lowsec stations, write guides about d-scan and using map stats and other stuff on the eve login screen.
Remove Local Chat or make it as wormholes.
click "apply patch". |
Otebski
Malevolent Intentions Ineluctable.
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 10:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
From my experience locking up and opening fire makes everyone want to pvp.
|
Romar Agent
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 10:18:00 -
[36] - Quote
knulla wrote:cut highsec in half, turn that into new lowsec, nerf highsec based income so much only new and broke players would live there, or use as income stream unless trading/hauling, bufff income in lowsec and 0.0/wh, make gate guns in lowsec stronger and around lowsec stations, write guides about d-scan and using map stats and other stuff on the eve login screen.
Remove Local Chat or make it as wormholes.
click "apply patch". And that would make players who do PVE want to PVP, how? Instead of leaving the game?
It would make PVE harder and PVP easier, yes, but that still doesn't break the wall around those who want to PVE for PVE sake, not because PVP is too hard (I can not know, but I suspect the larger part of PVEers).
Making the PVE part of EVE more uncomfortable will most likely only make more PVP players than PVE join the game, okay. It will most likely also make more PVE players than PVP players leave the game, hmm.
Ultimately it could lead to more PVP players than PVE players in the game. But would it could also lead to less players in EVE overall? EVE is known as a PVP heavy game, the PVE to PVP ratio we have today is based on that. But the (somewhat small) playerbase is based on that as well.
Depends on what you want. A larger playerbase with PVP and PVE or a smaller playerbase with mostly PVP and next to no PVE. |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 10:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Romar Agent wrote:knulla wrote:cut highsec in half, turn that into new lowsec, nerf highsec based income so much only new and broke players would live there, or use as income stream unless trading/hauling, bufff income in lowsec and 0.0/wh, make gate guns in lowsec stronger and around lowsec stations, write guides about d-scan and using map stats and other stuff on the eve login screen.
Remove Local Chat or make it as wormholes.
click "apply patch". And that would make players who do PVE want to PVP, how? Instead of leaving the game?
I know this might be too complicated for you, but that would also make it easier for those of us doing industry to do so outside highsec and in general improve our standard of living not to mention experience of the game.
You need to take a minute and think things through before you hit reply.
PS: You will need industry in order to build anything.
edit: |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1024
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 10:34:00 -
[38] - Quote
Romar Agent wrote:knulla wrote:cut highsec in half, turn that into new lowsec, nerf highsec based income so much only new and broke players would live there, or use as income stream unless trading/hauling, bufff income in lowsec and 0.0/wh, make gate guns in lowsec stronger and around lowsec stations, write guides about d-scan and using map stats and other stuff on the eve login screen.
Remove Local Chat or make it as wormholes.
click "apply patch". And that would make players who do PVE want to PVP, how? Instead of leaving the game? It would make PVE harder and PVP easier, yes, but that still doesn't break the wall around those who want to PVE for PVE sake, not because PVP is too hard (I can not know, but I suspect the larger part of PVEers). Making the PVE part of EVE more uncomfortable will most likely only make more PVP players than PVE join the game, okay. It will most likely also make more PVE players than PVP players leave the game, hmm. Ultimately it could lead to more PVP players than PVE players in the game. But would it could also lead to less players in EVE overall? EVE is known as a PVP heavy game, the PVE to PVP ratio we have today is based on that. But the (somewhat small) playerbase is based on that as well. Depends on what you want. A larger playerbase with PVP and PVE or a smaller playerbase with mostly PVP and next to no PVE. I think one important point you are missing is that us PvP types do both PvP and PvE. Some of us even do quite a large amount of PvE.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Forger Lanis
The Augen Nation.
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 10:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
I think you are missing the point. OP knows that not everybody will leave the carebear ways. What he/she wants is a training ground where aspiring pvpers can can build confidence before heading out to low/null without being ruined and getting stomped every time.
It would be easy conceptually but maybe not technically. Set aside a system or two that aren't used anyway. Let the system sell cheap generic ships that can only be used in those and make sure that kill mails are disabled. |
Romar Agent
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 10:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
knulla wrote:Romar Agent wrote:knulla wrote:cut highsec in half, turn that into new lowsec, nerf highsec based income so much only new and broke players would live there, or use as income stream unless trading/hauling, bufff income in lowsec and 0.0/wh, make gate guns in lowsec stronger and around lowsec stations, write guides about d-scan and using map stats and other stuff on the eve login screen.
Remove Local Chat or make it as wormholes.
click "apply patch". And that would make players who do PVE want to PVP, how? Instead of leaving the game? I know this might be too complicated for you, but that would also make it easier for those of us doing industry to do so outside highsec and in general improve our standard of living not to mention experience of the game. You need to take a minute and think things through before you hit reply.PS: You will need industry in order to build anything. edit: Yes but in this thread we're not talking about how to open Low and Null to Highsec Industrialists, but about how to convince people to switch from PVE to PVP (or influence the PVP to PVE ratio). That your proposed changes might help to drive more players to Low and Null is possible. I just doubt that the majority of PVEers will be drawn in by that.
Some, yes, anyone who is only repulsed by the risks.
But how do you influence a person whose nature is set on PVE (or set on non-PVP) to change their mind?
Set on PVE regardless of what is needed or not needed ingame, and regardless of the opportunities and non-opportunities ingame.
You don't.
If a game supports a playstyle, and someone plays a game to follow a playstyle, and the game changes to not support that playstyle most people will not continue to play the game for the game. They will choose another game that supports their playstyle.
In my opinion it's not about changing the PVE aspect of EVE. It's about changing the PVP aspect. The question is: Why are not more PVPers eager to play EVE? If they are (true) PVPers the answer isn't "Because there is strong PVE". |
|
Aemonchichi
Limited Access Guardian Society
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 10:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
so you want someone to do something he does not do....
and your solution is to ruin what he likes to do assuming then he will do what you want him to do.....
yes, this solution is absolutley smart, for mentally challenged
try do a little brainwork instead
carebear are usually quite rich, so they should be able to loose stuff without taking a hard hit to their wallet
so why they dont pvp then ?
my guess is a rich carebear not only is a rich player but also does something a pvp-er does not, he uses expensive implants to optimize his performance
jumping in a rifter and hittin lowsec/null/wh - space to see how this pvp thing works becomes a problem when u risk loosing implants worth billions
so maybe a solution could be making pods immune to all forms of interdiction ?
every carebear out there can afford loosing frig cruiser even non-faction fitted BS but they dont want to loose imp worth billions
and before u cry "wheee they can set up a clone for pvping" read how u create jump clone, think, realize that thats not a easy option for highsec players
if u try get the donkey to do what u want a carrot is way more effective than a whip |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1026
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
Aemonchichi wrote:so you want someone to do something he does not do....
and your solution is to ruin what he likes to do assuming then he will do what you want him to do.....
yes, this solution is absolutley smart, for mentally challenged
try do a little brainwork instead
carebear are usually quite rich, so they should be able to loose stuff without taking a hard hit to their wallet
so why they dont pvp then ?
my guess is a rich carebear not only is a rich player but also does something a pvp-er does not, he uses expensive implants to optimize his performance
jumping in a rifter and hittin lowsec/null/wh - space to see how this pvp thing works becomes a problem when u risk loosing implants worth billions
so maybe a solution could be making pods immune to all forms of interdiction ?
every carebear out there can afford loosing frig cruiser even non-faction fitted BS but they dont want to loose imp worth billions
and before u cry "wheee they can set up a clone for pvping" read how u create jump clone, think, realize that thats not a easy option for highsec players
if u try get the donkey to do what u want a carrot is way more effective than a whip As a rich care bear, I'd like to let you know you're wrong. Whilst yes, I do have several crystal/virtue sets I simply JC out of them if I'm going to go fly a frigate hull or something in null sec.
Probably also worth noting, I quite often PvE and scan in whs/null sec with two t3s and two crystal sets and a cov ops scanner with a virtue set. Then again im not exactly a risk averse care bear.
Anyway, this is not exclusive to care bears. I have snake and slave implants for PvP, as do a lot of other PvP players who have ever played in low sec.
Making pods invincible is just stupid, and i think that comes under the label of "dumbing down Eve".
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Acquisitioneer
Phantom Division
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:11:00 -
[43] - Quote
Now this is a harder one: "How to get PVPbears WANT to carebear!"
It should go the other way around too. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1026
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:13:00 -
[44] - Quote
Acquisitioneer wrote:Now this is a harder one: "How to get PVPbears WANT to carebear!"
It should go the other way around too. PvP characters already care bear.
Or did you think that every single one of them buys plex?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Aemonchichi
Limited Access Guardian Society
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
as u mentioned urself u are not the typical carebear but the point was to get typical carebears to do pvp
of course making pods immune to interdiction is "dumbing" eve down, yes u are right with that
but fact is if u want carebears to do/try pvp u have to make a certain investment, u cant force them to pvp by blowing up all his hulks and indu pos-es, then he will just leave the game, and thats something only retards want
the question is, in fact, is making pods immune to interdiction really that evil ? will it ruin everthing eve stands for ?
i dont think so
|
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
Acquisitioneer wrote:Now this is a harder one: "How to get PVPbears WANT to carebear!"
It should go the other way around too.
I and countless of people have tried to address that since release of this game, but we always get idiots who come on and say they rather want to bot and do it AFK watching a movie, then they quit EVE (they always do,) and new tards start playing with same stupid arguments.
There are several ways to improve PVE and PVP at the same time, but since every solution requires thought and the player to play the game they get dismissed. |
Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
759
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:16:00 -
[47] - Quote
The best way to get Carebears to fight is to understand that not everyone is you.
Some people have no interest in it and whatever you dangle in front of them they wont be interested.
Unless you forced them to fight and then they will just go elsewhere I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion. |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:16:00 -
[48] - Quote
Aemonchichi wrote: i dont think so
Most PVP players do not build their own ships, most PVP players have industrialists in their corp/alliances, guess what? they work together and help each other.
MAGIC! |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:17:00 -
[49] - Quote
Karn Dulake wrote:The best way to get Carebears to fight is to understand that not everyone is you.
Some people have no interest in it and whatever you dangle in front of them they wont be interested.
Unless you forced them to fight and then they will just go elsewhere
I once saw a miner in 0.0
And this game is not for those people, hence they never stick around long enough and they rage quit when suicide ganked. |
Aemonchichi
Limited Access Guardian Society
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:20:00 -
[50] - Quote
Karn Dulake wrote:The best way to get Carebears to fight is to understand that not everyone is you.
Some people have no interest in it and whatever you dangle in front of them they wont be interested.
Unless you forced them to fight and then they will just go elsewhere
dude you have to realize that u cant force someone in a game ^^ it may be shocking for you but there is a loggoffski button
so just forget your stupid "force them" and try to think productive, destructive thinking is for idiots
|
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1026
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
Aemonchichi wrote:as u mentioned urself u are not the typical carebear but the point was to get typical carebears to do pvp of course making pods immune to interdiction is "dumbing" eve down, yes u are right with that but fact is if u want carebears to do/try pvp u have to make a certain investment, u cant force them to pvp by blowing up all his hulks and indu pos-es, then he will just leave the game, and thats something only retards want the question is, in fact, is making pods immune to interdiction really that evil ? will it ruin everthing eve stands for ? i dont think so Well yes, because it would cause all sorts of issues with PvP. Let alone the fact that it would destroy the implant market.
And besides, as for your comment about only idiots wanting high sec hulk miners to leave. Well, personally im not so sure a few of them here and there are really going to be missed.
Tritanium prices would go up, which would mean genuine newbies in mining frigs and coveters would earn a little more. Other than that, what do high sec hulk pilots contribute? They don't really add much to the game, except subs and CCP is gaining subs all the time. It wouldn't take long to replace them.
Also, the hulk mining RMT bots which seem to make up a considerable percentage of high sec miners wouldn't leave. Likely they'd just move.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
477
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:22:00 -
[52] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Arena ideas have been brought up over and over again, then shut down by people who don't want to see pvp happen...
Not only by people.
CCP tried a few years ago (very stealthy) to add arena's to the game. The cluster 'simply' refused to accept the code. Who needs television when you have EVE? EVE drama, best drama. |
Kiandoshia
Gnampf Inc.
60
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:23:00 -
[53] - Quote
Quite the contrary actually. If they put arenas in Eve, that's it, I'm never fighting a 'real' fight again =p |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:24:00 -
[54] - Quote
Aemonchichi wrote:Karn Dulake wrote:The best way to get Carebears to fight is to understand that not everyone is you.
Some people have no interest in it and whatever you dangle in front of them they wont be interested.
Unless you forced them to fight and then they will just go elsewhere dude you have to realize that u cant force someone in a game ^^ it may be shocking for you but there is a loggoffski button so just forget your stupid "force them" and try to think productive, destructive thinking is for idiots
You can force someone in a game, EVE does it all the time.
If this game is not for you then quit, bye and have fun elsewhere.
But if you did not know, you can mine in EVE and never get killed once ever.
it is more than possible, that person could even live in 0.0
UNBELIEVABLE AM I RITE? |
Aemonchichi
Limited Access Guardian Society
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:28:00 -
[55] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote: Well yes, because it would cause all sorts of issues with PvP. Let alone the fact that it would destroy the implant market.
And besides, as for your comment about only idiots wanting high sec hulk miners to leave. Well, personally im not so sure a few of them here and there are really going to be missed.
Tritanium prices would go up, which would mean genuine newbies in mining frigs and coveters would earn a little more. Other than that, what do high sec hulk pilots contribute? They don't really add much to the game, except subs and CCP is gaining subs all the time. It wouldn't take long to replace them.
Also, the hulk mining RMT bots which seem to make up a considerable percentage of high sec miners wouldn't leave. Likely they'd just move.
1. i dont think the implant market is such a vital backbone of eve industry - u can buy other useful stuff with ur LPs
2. exactly, i dont want anyone to leave eve (not even goons)
3. eve is not fast growing so saying their subs would be easily replaced is wrong in my eyes
4. ccp is fighting bots quite succesfully now and i trust them that they get this problem solved
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
497
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
Aemonchichi wrote:carebear are usually quite rich, so they should be able to loose stuff without taking a hard hit to their wallet
so why they dont pvp then ?
my guess is a rich carebear not only is a rich player but also does something a pvp-er does not, he uses expensive implants to optimize his performance
jumping in a rifter and hittin lowsec/null/wh - space to see how this pvp thing works becomes a problem when u risk loosing implants worth billions I, and the people I hang with, are all significantly wealthier than the plethora of carebears we've encountered over the years. Their claims of not being able to afford modest ransoms or mercenary fees are proof of that. On top of that, most of us have never touched rocks or missions, or at least quickly gave up those activities. Or perhaps you define wealth as only something made through industry?
Your claim that pvpers don't use implants is absurd. Practically all of us use high-end implant sets for empire pvp, and I can't personally remember a time when I, or anyone I know, has not used at least a mixed +4/+3 set with 3%+ hardwirings in "interdictable" space.
Aemonchichi wrote:and before u cry "wheee they can set up a clone for pvping" read how u create jump clone, think, realize that thats not a easy option for highsec players False. It is extremely easy to make jump clones in high-sec. Go on the trade forums and see how many people advertise in-corp and out-of-corp JC services as proof of this.
Karn Dulake wrote:The best way to get Carebears to fight is to understand that not everyone is you.
Some people have no interest in it and whatever you dangle in front of them they wont be interested.
Unless you forced them to fight and then they will just go elsewhere So what exactly are we gaining by keeping them here in the first place? They add zero content to the game, and aside from lining CCP's pockets, they hardly seem to have any purpose.
And an even better question: how do we know that their subscriptions are important anyway? They seem to account for the majority of the negative press the game receives ("omgg 74 plaxxez destroyed bad game!!1"). Maybe if it was too inhospitable for these people to even start playing, the game would grow again, like it did in earlier times. It might sound counterintuitive to you, but when you think about it, you will agree that there have got to be more than a few thousand non-cowards in the world who like to play spaceship videogames. |
Aemonchichi
Limited Access Guardian Society
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:32:00 -
[57] - Quote
You can force someone in a game, EVE does it all the time. [wrong]
(edit, hint* all games force you, even in real life in a democracy you are forced to lots of things.) [RL is no game]
If this game is not for you then quit, bye and have fun elsewhere. [ lol ]
But if you did not know, you can mine in EVE and never get killed once ever. [ true ]
it is more than possible, that person could even live in 0.0 [ orly?]
UNBELIEVABLE AM I RITE? [ 60% wrong i`d say ]
|
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:41:00 -
[58] - Quote
knulla wrote:You can force someone in a game, EVE does it all the time. (edit, hint* all games force you, even in real life in a democracy you are forced to lots of things.)If this game is not for you then quit, bye and have fun elsewhere. But if you did not know, you can mine in EVE and never get killed once ever. it is more than possible, that person could even live in 0.0 UNBELIEVABLE AM I RITE?
Aemonchichi wrote:You can force someone in a game, EVE does it all the time. [wrong] (edit, hint* all games force you, even in real life in a democracy you are forced to lots of things.) [RL is no game] If this game is not for you then quit, bye and have fun elsewhere. [ lol ] But if you did not know, you can mine in EVE and never get killed once ever. [ true ] it is more than possible, that person could even live in 0.0 [ orly?] UNBELIEVABLE AM I RITE? [ 60% wrong i`d say ]
It is not wrong, it is fact, you argue gravity also? let me guess? 1+1=whatever the **** you feel like?
Game is not RL right... but you realize that you can't do *anything you want in EVE right? There are such a thing as limitations and set rules and game mechanics, I could go on forever trying to explain this I see.
"lol", that is not funny, I am dead serious, find another game!
Yep it is true, so why then do you have to have highsec 100% safe and why does a carebear have to fight in EVE at all and only love in Jita?
orly? orly! Here is a newsflash, PVP players like to protect their industry!!
60% wrong? you are 90% wrong! |
Aemonchichi
Limited Access Guardian Society
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:45:00 -
[59] - Quote
dear destiny corrupted,
when i am talking of expensive implants i am talking of +5 and +5% at least, i know that +3/4s are used in pvp, i did never say pvp use no implants
and when i am talking of wealth i refer to the last ccp report where there was an average wealth in ISKies of 300 mio average,
its is easy to make jc if u use j services but that requires you to join a corp and in a game of mistrust and paranoia this is not an easy way 8)
oh and your point of "useless" players that dont contribute...
woah dude careful, neither u and me have numbers cause ccp doesnt tell us but honestly even just only playing for their account and doing nothing else is ok for me cause that means ccp earny money and can invest part of that back in the game for our all benefit (the part they are not spending on 1000$ designer jeans )
|
Romar Agent
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:46:00 -
[60] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Karn Dulake wrote:The best way to get Carebears to fight is to understand that not everyone is you.
Some people have no interest in it and whatever you dangle in front of them they wont be interested.
Unless you forced them to fight and then they will just go elsewhere So what exactly are we gaining by keeping them here in the first place? They add zero content to the game, and aside from lining CCP's pockets, they hardly seem to have any purpose. Now, this is nice
Anyone who doesn't play the game the way you (or a certain part) wants to play, shouldn't?
You are right in asking the question why there is PVE content in a supposed PVP game. But I guess only CCP can answer that question.
Destiny Corrupted wrote:And an even better question: how do we know that their subscriptions are important anyway? They seem to account for the majority of the negative press the game receives ("omgg 74 plaxxez destroyed bad game!!1"). Maybe if it was too inhospitable for these people to even start playing, the game would grow again, like it did in earlier times. It might sound counterintuitive to you, but when you think about it, you will agree that there have got to be more than a few thousand non-cowards in the world who like to play spaceship videogames. And I guess if CCP thought PVE content would not lead to a higher number of subscriptions, or would in the contrary lower subscriptions there wouldn't be any PVE to begin with. Also don't forget that every enraged PVEer (who gives the game bad press) actually positively underlines the PVP content of EVE. |
|
Aemonchichi
Limited Access Guardian Society
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 11:53:00 -
[61] - Quote
knulla wrote:It is not wrong, it is fact, you argue gravity also? let me guess? 1+1=whatever the **** you feel like? Game is not RL right... but you realize that you can't do *anything you want in EVE right? There are such a thing as limitations and set rules and game mechanics, I could go on forever trying to explain this I see. "lol", that is not funny, I am dead serious, find another game! Yep it is true, so why then do you have to have highsec 100% safe and why does a carebear have to fight in EVE at all and only love in Jita? orly? orly! Here is a newsflash, PVP players like to protect their industry!! 60% wrong? you are 90% wrong!
son, you cannot force someone in a game, u might force someones avatar out of his ship by pewpewing and to dim persons that could of course look like they forced a player to something but no
you can pvp with people that want to pvp with you, you can mine together with ur buddies, you can kick someone out of his space, in all that u havent forced anyone , these ppl are there cause they want , so pls realize u are missing the point here
pls be specific in what u want to do in eve that u cant cause of ruleset, game mechanics, maybe then its easier to understand what u are raging about
you are dead serious ? lol again
highsec is 100% save ? you are sure u are playing the same eve as we do ?
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
499
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 12:04:00 -
[62] - Quote
Aemonchichi wrote:dear destiny corrupted,
when i am talking of expensive implants i am talking of +5 and +5% at least, i know that +3/4s are used in pvp, i did never say pvp use no implants Most dedicated pvpers (not all, just most) use pirate sets in high/low-sec. I'm talking stuff like Slave implants, of which even a low-grade set would cost upwards of a billion ISK.
Aemonchichi wrote:and when i am talking of wealth i refer to the last ccp report where there was an average wealth in ISKies of 300 mio average And that number includes all the people who played for a week and then quit (the majority of people who have tried EVE at some point in their lives), and the outliers like the old-money T2 BPO barons and alliance checkbook characters with trillions of lSK. When you consider the data analysis methods used to reach the 300-million figure, it makes a whole lot more sense. How about you give me the median value instead, then we'll talk.
Aemonchichi wrote:its is easy to make jc if u use j services but that requires you to join a corp and in a game of mistrust and paranoia this is not an easy way 8) You can make jump clones without joining another corporation, via the use of a Rorqual. I have made about two-thirds of my clones using this method. Also, claiming that the service providers with hundreds of pages of positive feedback don't make proper enough accommodations to relieve mistrust and paranoia is absurd. You're simply trying to blow the difficulty level associated with the process out of proportion.
Aemonchichi wrote:oh and your point of "useless" players that dont contribute... woah dude careful, neither u and me have numbers cause ccp doesnt tell us but honestly even just only playing for their account and doing nothing else is ok for me cause that means ccp earny money and can invest part of that back in the game for our all benefit (the part they are not spending on 1000$ designer jeans ) I don't have to be careful. The average flesh-based high-sec miner contributes as much to the game as a beep-boop bot.
CCP apparently has no qualms in regards to getting rid of the latter.
|
Aemonchichi
Limited Access Guardian Society
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 12:20:00 -
[63] - Quote
Most dedicated pvpers (not all, just most) use pirate sets in high/low-sec. I'm talking stuff like Slave implants, of which even a low-grade set would cost upwards of a billion ISK.
ok, i still dont get your point , you stated now multiple times that u use super expensive kick ass imps - why ? to tell us u and ur buddies are cool bros ? kay u are cool, dude - i still tell u that highsec carebears use expensive implants and that is not motivating them to try out pvp, cause podding happens and then imps are gone
And that number includes all the people who played for a week and then quit (the majority of people who have tried EVE at some point in their lives), and the outliers like the old-money T2 BPO barons and alliance checkbook characters with trillions of lSK. When you consider the data analysis methods used to reach the 300-million figure, it makes a whole lot more sense. How about you give me the median value instead, then we'll talk.
i thought these 300 mio are a median value , how come you think ccp included accounts that are inactive, ppl that quitted, into this ?
You can make jump clones without joining another corporation, via the use of a Rorqual. I have made about two-thirds of my clones using this method. Also, claiming that the service providers with hundreds of pages of positive feedback don't make proper enough accommodations to relieve mistrust and paranoia is absurd. You're simply trying to blow the difficulty level associated with the process out of proportion.
you seem eager to compare everything with your person, thats hard cause we talk about highsec carebears and u dont seem like one of these, i still say for a highsec carebear its not easy to get a jump clone, considering most of them even dont look at these forums (i think burn jita showed that)
I don't have to be careful. The average flesh-based high-sec miner contributes as much to the game as a beep-boop bot.
you may think that - i dont 8)
CCP apparently has no qualms in regards to getting rid of the latter.
here i must ask u for crarification - english is not my native language, i think i speak it pretty well but "qualms" is a thing i dont understand 8) if possible pls rephrase
|
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
738
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 12:22:00 -
[64] - Quote
Why do people want to do only PVE in an MMO?
What's the point?
In the beginning high security space was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Romar Agent
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 12:35:00 -
[65] - Quote
Roime wrote:Why do people want to do only PVE in an MMO?
What's the point?
I can only speak for myself.
I'm playing EVE, because it's a spaceship game, on top of that one with amazing graphics and great mechanics. Even more so I'm playing EVE, because it's Elite, erm - 4.
I wouldn't have a chance to reexperience Elite in that quality with another game.
That's disconnected from the fact that EVE is an MMO. EVE being an MMO is natural as MMOs are the hype these days.
It doesn't negate the fact that EVE is also a spaceship game.
So two characteristics:
1. Genre: Spaceship game connected to the Elite series. Draws SciFi-fans as well as nostalgic players of the latter.
2. Game type: MMO. Draws players who want to connect to others, and/or to compete with others.
So EVE is played by those who like spaceship games. EVE is played by those who like MMOs. EVE is played by people who like spaceship MMOs. |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
86
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 12:50:00 -
[66] - Quote
Knus'lar wrote:I think the BEST way to get carebears to want to pvp is to take them and put them through a crucible of violence. Blow them up so much they harden into tough pirates
Yeah that will totally make them want to PvP and not the opposite.
Totally.
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1026
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 13:00:00 -
[67] - Quote
Roime wrote:Why do people want to do only PVE in an MMO?
What's the point?
To be fair I mostly just PvE these days, despite having started out as a PvP character.
That said, I PvE because making large amounts of ISK in this game is still a challenge and because PvE is intertwined with PvP. If PvE were segregated and themepark MMO style like some high sec care bears would like it to be it would defeat the purpose of this being an MMO.
Not to mention the fact that in a conflict driven market segregated PvE and PvP is the primary cause of mudflation.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Galega Ori
ZERO HEAVY INDUSTRIES 24eme Legion Etrangere
19
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 13:01:00 -
[68] - Quote
Klavis lychnuchus wrote:What we need are Tax bracket options for corpies, so a 23.5 / 7 PVE monkey has no barrier for entry to the corps and is left to do just what he loves but at a much higher tax rate. He can rat/mission/plex all day everyday earning meaningful income for a Corp he would otherwise just be leaching from.
Those with the ambition and ability to defend themselves can do so too and pay less tax and be confident in a Corporations ship replacement program to be fit for purpose.
As a useful corallary they would perhaps take more interest in defending corp assets if they get put on a lower tax rate!
Your idea is dead before it even gets to the starting line due to the fact that why should someone who likes running missions and not pvping pay more in corp taxes to be apart of your corp when he/she can pay less in a npc corp or apart of a corp he or she made.
also, clarify how the player doing nothing but pve is leaching from the corp when in reality the corp is the one leaching from the pve player through tax? |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1026
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 13:05:00 -
[69] - Quote
Galega Ori wrote:Klavis lychnuchus wrote:What we need are Tax bracket options for corpies, so a 23.5 / 7 PVE monkey has no barrier for entry to the corps and is left to do just what he loves but at a much higher tax rate. He can rat/mission/plex all day everyday earning meaningful income for a Corp he would otherwise just be leaching from.
Those with the ambition and ability to defend themselves can do so too and pay less tax and be confident in a Corporations ship replacement program to be fit for purpose.
As a useful corallary they would perhaps take more interest in defending corp assets if they get put on a lower tax rate! Your idea is dead before it even gets to the starting line due to the fact that why should someone who likes running missions and not pvping pay more in corp taxes to be apart of your corp when he/she can pay less in a npc corp or apart of a corp he or she made. also, clarify how the player doing nothing but pve is leaching from the corp when in reality the corp is the one leaching from the pve player through tax? Some corps (outside of high sec) actually provide a service for their members. Hence a member who does not contribute is leaching.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
501
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 13:10:00 -
[70] - Quote
Galega Ori wrote:Your idea is dead before it even gets to the starting line due to the fact that why should someone who likes running missions and not pvping pay more in corp taxes to be apart of your corp when he/she can pay less in a npc corp or apart of a corp he or she made. also, clarify how the player doing nothing but pve is leaching from the corp when in reality the corp is the one leaching from the pve player through tax? A proper corporation will take the effort to protect such a player, for mutual benefit. However, most players simply aren't rational, and let greed take over. The carebears feel entitled to protection for free, and because they can't get it, they whine for changes. On the other hand, most corporations have terrible leadership, are unprofitable, and militarily-weak; they are unable to protect their industrialists regardless of the latter's willingness to contribute.
The solution is to significantly bump up the NPC corporation tax. This would then shift the focus on player-run corporations, and force well-run corporations to emerge out of necessity. The existence of the 11% freebie options makes all others useless. |
|
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
656
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 13:14:00 -
[71] - Quote
Romar Agent wrote:Roime wrote:Why do people want to do only PVE in an MMO?
What's the point?
I can only speak for myself. I'm playing EVE, because it's a spaceship game, on top of that one with amazing graphics and great mechanics. Even more so I'm playing EVE, because it's Elite, erm - 4. I wouldn't have a chance to reexperience Elite in that quality with another game. That's disconnected from the fact that EVE is an MMO. EVE being an MMO is natural as MMOs are the hype these days. It doesn't negate the fact that EVE is also a spaceship game. So two characteristics: 1. Genre: Spaceship game connected to the Elite series. Draws SciFi-fans as well as nostalgic players of the latter. 2. Game type: MMO. Draws players who want to connect to others, and/or to compete with others. So EVE is played by those who like spaceship games. EVE is played by those who like MMOs. EVE is played by people who like spaceship MMOs.
Nicely put, that's it. EVE relishes in holding a monopoly and as with all monopolies, that leads to evil. EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 15% Nullsec; 72% Highsec. CSM 7: 1 highsec resident out of 14.-á
CSM demographics vs EVE demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 13:20:00 -
[72] - Quote
While you're at it, why not allow a mutual form of combat in high security space? Between two parties agreeing to the rules of open combat with variants and options before hand. Basically, a formal and complex form of dueling. There is no reason not to. People do it already, only it's clunky via cans. New players don't even know about this.
You could even allow for betting. And you could specific if the fight is to the death or not. If the rules state it's not to the death but your opponent finishes you off anyways, Concord will respawn in force like usual. Nothing complicated.
Would be a good way to get new players feet wet to experience how different a player ship fights (and how much more dangerous it is than NPC ships) without much hassle. Easy to program too I would imagine. |
Captain Catchup
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 13:27:00 -
[73] - Quote
It may have been mentioned in a previous post but i dont have the energy or care to read responses to the same 25 people who spam this forum multiple times daily.
its SIMPLE - remove killrights. believe it or not that "carebear" wants to pvp some of the time, he just doesnt want to pvp 24/7. people want to pvp and go back to doing what they were doing without getting jumped while in their money maker (stabbed in the back), whether its a 2 bill isk mission boat or a hulk etc...
so all these threads about trying to get "carebears" to pvp is useless, the ones who dont want to pvp wont and the ones that do dont want to sign up for 30 days of it they want to go pvp have fun and go back to what they are doing. GET RID OF KILLRIGHTS and watch what happens....
so what you end up with is a bunch of players waiting years before they are ready because they feel once they start they have to continue (just one more skill and im ready..... sound famaliar?)
im a 4 year long carebear player that has wanted to pvp all along, and has only trained combat skills and im telling you WHY i dont pvp yet and this is the only reason, get real - noone cares about losing a goddamn ship that only took 20 minutes to earn its risking the 5 bill ship from killrights from pvping in the cheap one.
|
Tobiaz
Spacerats
444
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 13:32:00 -
[74] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:As a rich care bear, I'd like to let you know you're wrong. Whilst yes, I do have several crystal/virtue sets I simply JC out of them if I'm going to go fly a frigate hull or something in null sec.
Probably also worth noting, I quite often PvE and scan in whs/null sec with two t3s and two crystal sets and a cov ops scanner with a virtue set. Then again im not exactly a risk averse care bear.
Anyway, this is not exclusive to care bears. I have snake and slave implants for PvP, as do a lot of other PvP players who have ever played in low sec.
Making pods invincible is just stupid, and i think that comes under the label of "dumbing down Eve". A perfect example how jumpclones have completely undermined some of EVE's core design principles. People shouldn't be able to have a min-maxed jumpclone for every occasion. It breaks the important balance of having to make decisions and deal with the consequences. Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1026
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 13:43:00 -
[75] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:As a rich care bear, I'd like to let you know you're wrong. Whilst yes, I do have several crystal/virtue sets I simply JC out of them if I'm going to go fly a frigate hull or something in null sec.
Probably also worth noting, I quite often PvE and scan in whs/null sec with two t3s and two crystal sets and a cov ops scanner with a virtue set. Then again im not exactly a risk averse care bear.
Anyway, this is not exclusive to care bears. I have snake and slave implants for PvP, as do a lot of other PvP players who have ever played in low sec.
Making pods invincible is just stupid, and i think that comes under the label of "dumbing down Eve". A perfect example how jumpclones have completely undermined some of EVE's core design principles. People shouldn't be able to have a min-maxed jumpclone for every occasion. It breaks the important balance of having to make decisions and deal with the consequences. Well that is just stupid, should people once they bought a slave set never fly shield ships? Should people with crystals never fly buffer? I have a very expensive clone with nomads and +6% implants, should I never jump out of a super despite owning a holding toon?
Not to mention the fact that without jump clones no low sec pirate or high sec care bear would ever enter null sec ever again.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
444
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 13:49:00 -
[76] - Quote
Captain Catchup wrote:It may have been mentioned in a previous post but i dont have the energy or care to read responses to the same 25 people who spam this forum multiple times daily. its SIMPLE - remove killrights. believe it or not that "carebear" wants to pvp some of the time, he just doesnt want to pvp 24/7. people want to pvp and go back to doing what they were doing without getting jumped while in their money maker (stabbed in the back), whether its a 2 bill isk mission boat or a hulk etc... so all these threads about trying to get "carebears" to pvp is useless, the ones who dont want to pvp wont and the ones that do dont want to sign up for 30 days of it they want to go pvp have fun and go back to what they are doing. GET RID OF KILLRIGHTS and watch what happens.... so what you end up with is a bunch of players waiting years before they are ready because they feel once they start they have to continue (just one more skill and im ready..... sound famaliar?) im a 4 year long carebear player that has wanted to pvp all along, and has only trained combat skills and im telling you WHY i dont pvp yet and this is the only reason, get real - noone cares about losing a goddamn ship that only took 20 minutes to earn its risking the 5 bill ship from killrights from pvping in the cheap one.
Almost nobody ever makes use of their killrights, just ask around the ganker community for confirmation. In the all years that killrights have existed I can scarcely remember any victims that got 'even' using their killrights.
Just because it holds you personally back from misbehavin', doesn't mean it's THE issue keeping carebears from PvP. Far from it in fact.
Personally I think the main issue is with carebears simply playing the game differently, measuring progression by wealth and possessions, where PvP-oriented players measure it more by their victories. And just like you said it yourself, not wanting to risk you 2B isk mission boat, that's exactly what's keeping carebears from PvP.
Carebears will never willingly jeopardize large chunks of their 'progression' (in the same way some of the more pathetic PvP-players don't want to jeopardize their KB-ratio and will ***** even on teamkills). Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!-á Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors! |
Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
760
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 14:28:00 -
[77] - Quote
Aemonchichi wrote:Karn Dulake wrote:The best way to get Carebears to fight is to understand that not everyone is you.
Some people have no interest in it and whatever you dangle in front of them they wont be interested.
Unless you forced them to fight and then they will just go elsewhere dude you have to realize that u cant force someone in a game ^^ it may be shocking for you but there is a loggoffski button so just forget your stupid "force them" and try to think productive, destructive thinking is for idiots
I think that you may be a tard. I was saying that not everyone wants to pvp and there is nothing you can do to force them. So just let them be but they have no understand that they can still be attacked.
Would you like me to use hand puppets next time so you dont get confused and angry I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
811
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 14:28:00 -
[78] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:sabre906 wrote:The population of RvB indicates there's actually a big demand for pvp, just not the hours of roaming/camping/grinding before it. The next time you think of "forcing" carebears to pvp, realize that you won't have to, they already want it. It's actually a matter of forcing the hours of boredom before it onto them, and it's not going to work. They want it, eh? So you're saying that spending time to hunt for targets is boring, but repeating the same hand motion to drop the same quantity of minerals from the cargohold to a container over and over again for hours isn't? Is that your argument?
This is what bots, not real miners do.
Try knowing your prey, if anything it will help to hunt them better. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1026
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 14:39:00 -
[79] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:sabre906 wrote:The population of RvB indicates there's actually a big demand for pvp, just not the hours of roaming/camping/grinding before it. The next time you think of "forcing" carebears to pvp, realize that you won't have to, they already want it. It's actually a matter of forcing the hours of boredom before it onto them, and it's not going to work. They want it, eh? So you're saying that spending time to hunt for targets is boring, but repeating the same hand motion to drop the same quantity of minerals from the cargohold to a container over and over again for hours isn't? Is that your argument? This is what bots, not real miners do. Try knowing your prey, if anything it will help to hunt them better. Ahh of course, the human miners must perform some sort of complex ritualistic dance in their hulks whilst waiting for their miners to cycle.
I knew there was something I was supposed to have been looking for, if only I'd taken the time to learn my prey.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
811
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 14:41:00 -
[80] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:
The only problem with them is the insane amount of isk the mission running/highsec incursion fraction of them is spilling into the economy without them actually needing any isk - they don't need to replace any ships after all.
L4 missions rewards now are fine.
You can eve-search how I spent months if not years on the missions forums proving with other 2 guys how L4 missions needed to be nerfed. Since then they have been nerfed 3-4 times both as loot (multiple times) and bounties (recently).
Now what remains is simple: the fact that there's not much risk doing them. Therefore any amount of ISK - nerfed or not - does not leave the economy.
The fun thing is that what's wrong now is not hi sec L4 missions any more but sov 0.0 content.
People don't move alts to hi sec because L4s are still godlike. Nope. They move them to hi sec because the 0.0 rewards are way too low.
Why are 0.0 rewards too low? Because in 0.0 you can grind red crosses with massively powerful ships AND in nearly absolute safety. This pushed CCP into nerfing 0.0 PvE again and again. And this means those in 0.0 who do not have the same opportunities got over-nerfed in their income as result (they call this phenomenon "horizontal cuts" here, the same identical taxes hitting everybody indiscriminately and thus penalizing the poor).
Basically 0.0 rewards need to be boosted back again but to be denied to supercaps and other mass grinding machines.
Simi Kusoni wrote: Ahh of course, the human miners must perform some sort of complex ritualistic dance in their hulks whilst waiting for their miners to cycle.
I knew there was something I was supposed to have been looking for, if only I'd taken the time to learn my prey.
No, they do other stuff in game while the Hulk does its thing. Depending on the situations some chat for hours, others race for the most efficient operation (this makes mining quite active), others hunt suspicious guys with their PvP character (often their Hulk is baity and overtanked)... there are 1000 situations not just 1. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
|
Kara Vix
Vinegar Flies Peregrine Nation
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 14:47:00 -
[81] - Quote
Roime wrote:Why do people want to do only PVE in an MMO?
What's the point?
Because PVE is fun for me, PVP is not.
The bigger question is why do PVE'ers bother PVPers so much in EVE. How can it possibly effect you if someone is running lvl 4 missions in high sec rather than PVP'ing in low sec? |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 14:49:00 -
[82] - Quote
WHY THE F*** DO PEOPLE CARE WHAT OTHER PLAYERS DO INGAME ????
Get lives people.................... Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Captain Catchup
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 15:19:00 -
[83] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:Captain Catchup wrote:It may have been mentioned in a previous post but i dont have the energy or care to read responses to the same 25 people who spam this forum multiple times daily. its SIMPLE - remove killrights. believe it or not that "carebear" wants to pvp some of the time, he just doesnt want to pvp 24/7. people want to pvp and go back to doing what they were doing without getting jumped while in their money maker (stabbed in the back), whether its a 2 bill isk mission boat or a hulk etc... so all these threads about trying to get "carebears" to pvp is useless, the ones who dont want to pvp wont and the ones that do dont want to sign up for 30 days of it they want to go pvp have fun and go back to what they are doing. GET RID OF KILLRIGHTS and watch what happens.... so what you end up with is a bunch of players waiting years before they are ready because they feel once they start they have to continue (just one more skill and im ready..... sound famaliar?) im a 4 year long carebear player that has wanted to pvp all along, and has only trained combat skills and im telling you WHY i dont pvp yet and this is the only reason, get real - noone cares about losing a goddamn ship that only took 20 minutes to earn its risking the 5 bill ship from killrights from pvping in the cheap one. Almost nobody ever makes use of their killrights, just ask around the ganker community for confirmation. In the all years that killrights have existed I can scarcely remember any victims that got 'even' using their killrights. Just because it holds you personally back from misbehavin', doesn't mean it's THE issue keeping carebears from PvP. Far from it in fact. Personally I think the main issue is with carebears simply playing the game differently, measuring progression by wealth and possessions, where PvP-oriented players measure it more by their victories. And just like you said it yourself, not wanting to risk you 2B isk mission boat, that's exactly what's keeping carebears from PvP. Carebears will never willingly jeopardize large chunks of their 'progression' (in the same way some of the more pathetic PvP-players don't want to jeopardize their KB-ratio and will ***** even on teamkills).
-almost nobody means somebody which was my point, im not a ganker nor do i wish to gank so comparing a ganker shooting a unarmed or unsuspecting target to someone who just wants to pvp and not get shot in the back when hes not pvping was antother point i was tryin to make.
pvping when i want to pvp is what i want not "misbehavin" or ganking with no consequences, im a carebear and dont care how much "wealth" i got if i can never have fun with it without being penalized in many differnt ways. Losing ship and pod is enough.. I know theres alot of pvpers also that only care about their KB and im also not one of those either.
so i guess my lack of education is preventing me from explaining why ALOT not all of people who wish to pvp dont |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1026
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 15:20:00 -
[84] - Quote
Kara Vix wrote:Roime wrote:Why do people want to do only PVE in an MMO?
What's the point?
Because PVE is fun for me, PVP is not. The bigger question is why do PVE'ers bother PVPers so much in EVE. How can it possibly effect you if someone is running lvl 4 missions in high sec rather than PVP'ing in low sec? Because this is a sand box, conflict driven MMO. All aspects of the game are intertwined, risk free isk grinding in high sec effects everyone equally. As does mining.
There is a term for the way in which this effects MMOs, the term is called mudflation. Without sufficient isk sinks or ship destruction rampant monetary inflation occurs, similarly "rare" items become increasingly common until the game is saturated.
At this point most games die, and in Eve the beginnings of mudflation are already being seen in the rampant super capital and titan proliferation. Similarly pirate BS, t2 command ships, t3s and standard capitals are becoming more and more commonplace.
CCP have begun to address this issue with the recent drone region changes, we can hope only that they succeed.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1026
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 15:27:00 -
[85] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote:
The only problem with them is the insane amount of isk the mission running/highsec incursion fraction of them is spilling into the economy without them actually needing any isk - they don't need to replace any ships after all.
L4 missions rewards now are fine. You can eve-search how I spent months if not years on the missions forums proving with other 2 guys how L4 missions needed to be nerfed. Since then they have been nerfed 3-4 times both as loot (multiple times) and bounties (recently). Now what remains is simple: the fact that there's not much risk doing them. Therefore any amount of ISK - nerfed or not - does not leave the economy. The fun thing is that what's wrong now is not hi sec L4 missions any more but sov 0.0 content. People don't move alts to hi sec because L4s are still godlike. Nope. They move them to hi sec because the 0.0 rewards are way too low. Why are 0.0 rewards too low? Because in 0.0 you can grind red crosses with massively powerful ships AND in nearly absolute safety. This pushed CCP into nerfing 0.0 PvE again and again. And this means those in 0.0 who do not have the same opportunities got over-nerfed in their income as result (they call this phenomenon "horizontal cuts" here, the same identical taxes hitting everybody indiscriminately and thus penalizing the poor). Basically 0.0 rewards need to be boosted back again but to be denied to supercaps and other mass grinding machines. Simi Kusoni wrote: Ahh of course, the human miners must perform some sort of complex ritualistic dance in their hulks whilst waiting for their miners to cycle.
I knew there was something I was supposed to have been looking for, if only I'd taken the time to learn my prey.
No, they do other stuff in game while the Hulk does its thing. Depending on the situations some chat for hours, others race for the most efficient corp operation (this makes mining quite active), others hunt suspicious guys with their PvP character (often their Hulk is baity and overtanked)... there are 1000 situations not just 1. Sorry but that is not a way to distinguish a human miner from a bot, because those actions cannot be seen by the ganker because it is occurring in a different account or in corp chat. From a gankers perspective the actions of the bot and human are near identical.
As for your commets on 0.0 income, I agree. Null sec should be buffed, and also made more dangerous. CCP have been promising to replace local with an Intel tool for years, they should just HTFU and do it.
I do disagree with your supercap thing though. Pre nerf titans were sanctum gods, but outside of the revenant a super capital can be outperformed by a vindicator or machariel. I haven't seen a titan run sanctums since the nerf, but I presume they suck.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 15:28:00 -
[86] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote: risk free isk grinding in high sec effects everyone equally. As does mining.
All correct but for this part. That's Botting in High Sec, etc...... Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Gorki Andropov
Kerensky Initiatives
513
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 15:30:00 -
[87] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:WHY THE F*** DO PEOPLE CARE WHAT OTHER PLAYERS DO INGAME ????
Get lives people....................
Y U mad bro? |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1026
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 15:39:00 -
[88] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote: risk free isk grinding in high sec effects everyone equally. As does mining.
All correct but for this part. That's Botting in High Sec, etc...... Well botting is just as bad wherever it occurs, whether its high sec, null sec or wormholes. But human players can very easily have a deterious effect on the market that is equal to that of bots if mechanics are not kept in check to prevent it.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 15:59:00 -
[89] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote: Well botting is just as bad wherever it occurs, whether its high sec, null sec or wormholes. But human players can very easily have a deterious effect on the market that is equal to that of bots if mechanics are not kept in check to prevent it.
It's either that or Null is so predictable, they set up operation in High. If CCP were serious about this they would make Null worth fighting over again. But no. They have just the one OTEC Blob now......sigh. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1027
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 16:07:00 -
[90] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote: Well botting is just as bad wherever it occurs, whether its high sec, null sec or wormholes. But human players can very easily have a deterious effect on the market that is equal to that of bots if mechanics are not kept in check to prevent it.
It's either that or Null is so predictable, they set up operation in High. If CCP were serious about this they would make Null worth fighting over again. But no. They have just the one OTEC Blob now......sigh. Meh, CCP just need to do something with local. Its a pretty delicate situation though, so I can understand why they'd be reticent to change anything.
Plus I get the impression that the management at CCP are still hypnotised by the character distribution statistics, and may be underestimating just how many of those in high sec are alts or only there temporarily.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
|
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
738
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 17:41:00 -
[91] - Quote
Romar Agent wrote:Roime wrote:Why do people want to do only PVE in an MMO?
What's the point?
I can only speak for myself. I'm playing EVE, because it's a spaceship game, on top of that one with amazing graphics and great mechanics. Even more so I'm playing EVE, because it's Elite, erm - 4. I wouldn't have a chance to reexperience Elite in that quality with another game. That's disconnected from the fact that EVE is an MMO. EVE being an MMO is natural as MMOs are the hype these days. It doesn't negate the fact that EVE is also a spaceship game. So two characteristics: 1. Genre: Spaceship game connected to the Elite series. Draws SciFi-fans as well as nostalgic players of the latter. 2. Game type: MMO. Draws players who want to connect to others, and/or to compete with others. So EVE is played by those who like spaceship games. EVE is played by those who like MMOs. EVE is played by people who like spaceship MMOs.
Those are all good reasons to play EVE, but I feel that it didn't exactly answer my question- why only deal with AI in a virtual universe full of real players?
Humans create interesting content, provide endless challenges. I enjoy the sensations of victory and defeat, and CPU, a piece of silicon, is unable to give me those.
Kara Vix wrote: Because PVE is fun for me, PVP is not.
The bigger question is why do PVE'ers bother PVPers so much in EVE. How can it possibly effect you if someone is running lvl 4 missions in high sec rather than PVP'ing in low sec?
Like mentioned many times before, it doesn't effect anyone, until you come to the forums and start crying mommy. I'm merely interested in the mindset I can't fully understand. Can you tell what aspects of PVP make you choose PVE over it?
The only problem currently is that some people who run L4s and whatever it is that hisec whiners do want to force CCP to change the sandbox. I believe the source of this problem is that missions are not connected with the rest of the sandbox, and players who engage in them fail to understand the nature of EVE.
In the beginning high security space was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Gealbhan
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
142
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 17:44:00 -
[92] - Quote
PvP is all about the ISK, nothing more. Have enough coming in to replace losses (usually via an alt) and you're good to pew pew untill your fingertips bleed.
|
Aron Croup
Incompatible Protocol Bittervet Mercenaries
99
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 17:55:00 -
[93] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:WHY THE F*** DO PEOPLE CARE WHAT OTHER PLAYERS DO INGAME ????
Get lives people....................
If there's one thing I've learned in my 30 years on this planet, it's that almost everyone has an opinion on how everyone else should live. Real life or game makes no difference in this regard.
The simple facts of human interaction:
- The stuff that I do is always better than the stuff that you do.
- I should be allowed to do my stuff, for any reason I can think of.
- You shouldn't be allowed to do the stuff you like to do, for of any reason I can think of.
- I tend to hang out with people that agree with me so I don't have to learn about you.
- I really only want to hear myself speak, but I will pretend to be interested in your opinion so you will listen to me.
|
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
67
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 18:07:00 -
[94] - Quote
Aron Croup wrote:Fabulousli Obvious wrote:WHY THE F*** DO PEOPLE CARE WHAT OTHER PLAYERS DO INGAME ????
Get lives people.................... If there's one thing I've learned in my 30 years on this planet, it's that almost everyone has an opinion on how everyone else should live. Real life or game makes no difference in this regard. The simple facts of human interaction in EVE ONLINE Exclusively:
Great list, but the title as altered above is a bit more accurate in my 47 years on this planet. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Romar Agent
Ishukone Regional Headquarters
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 18:23:00 -
[95] - Quote
Roime wrote:Romar Agent wrote:... So EVE is played by those who like spaceship games. EVE is played by those who like MMOs. EVE is played by people who like spaceship MMOs. Those are all good reasons to play EVE, but I feel that it didn't exactly answer my question- why only deal with AI in a virtual universe full of real players? Humans create interesting content, provide endless challenges. I enjoy the sensations of victory and defeat, and CPU, a piece of silicon, is unable to give me those. Certainly.
I personally play for storylines. In this case storylines embedded into the background of the four large empires. A storyline of slow progression and character development (it could be called grinding standing, but that's maybe half of it).
I do know many people play for challenges, play to feel a rush of adrenaline or to win.
That's not what drives me, I do not play for challenges.
Why? Not sure. I'm basically juggling a work and family life and try to relax by delving into another world then and now. Maybe I don't feel I want to recreate what I can have in life anytime. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
675
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 18:31:00 -
[96] - Quote
Romar Agent wrote:Certainly.
I personally play for storylines. In this case storylines embedded into the background of the four large empires. A storyline of slow progression and character development (it could be called grinding standing, but that's maybe half of it).
I do know many people play for challenges, play to feel a rush of adrenaline or to win.
That's not what drives me, I do not play for challenges.
Why? Not sure. I'm basically juggling a work and family life and try to relax by delving into another world then and now. Maybe I don't feel I want to recreate what I can have in life anytime. EVE has about as much depth into its backround as a tea saucer containing water. Want to jump in? Watch your head |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 18:32:00 -
[97] - Quote
Romar Agent wrote:
Why? Not sure. I'm basically juggling a work and family life and try to relax by delving into another world then and now. Maybe I don't feel I want to recreate what I can have in life anytime.
Then get out while you still can. Apparently there is no room for Casual Players anymore, and as much has been made quite clear (the Dev in the latest Inferno vid proclaiming excitedly about "Moar Miner tears"...basically we are screwed even from a Dev standpoint).
So much for the 'Sandbox'. False advertising if there ever was......... Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Romar Agent
Ishukone Regional Headquarters
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 18:39:00 -
[98] - Quote
Aqriue wrote:EVE has about as much depth into its backround as a tea saucer containing water. Want to jump in? Watch your head That's why I'm basically creating my content myself (MMOs next to killed classic pen&paper roleplaying around here, only fair that I use them for my pastime).
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Then get out while you still can. Apparently there is no room for Casual Players anymore, and as much has been made quite clear (the Dev in the latest Inferno vid proclaiming excitedly about "Moar Miner tears"...basically we are screwed even from a Dev standpoint).
So much for the 'Sandbox'. False advertising if there ever was......... Let them come I do not believe CCP wants to get rid of the casual gamers' subscriptions. |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 18:41:00 -
[99] - Quote
Romar Agent wrote:Fabulousli Obvious wrote:
So much for the 'Sandbox'. False advertising if there ever was.........
Let them come I do not believe CCP wants to get rid of the casual gamers' subscriptions.
I didn't either. But with the last few months, Obvious is Obvious. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1030
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 18:52:00 -
[100] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Romar Agent wrote:Fabulousli Obvious wrote:
So much for the 'Sandbox'. False advertising if there ever was.........
Let them come I do not believe CCP wants to get rid of the casual gamers' subscriptions. I didn't either. But with the last few months, Obvious is Obvious. Aye, the poor "casual" AFK high sec miner who only has his six bots hulk pilots online for eight or more hours a day.
However will he survive?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
|
Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
275
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 18:58:00 -
[101] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Kara Vix wrote:Roime wrote:Why do people want to do only PVE in an MMO?
What's the point?
Because PVE is fun for me, PVP is not. The bigger question is why do PVE'ers bother PVPers so much in EVE. How can it possibly effect you if someone is running lvl 4 missions in high sec rather than PVP'ing in low sec? Because this is a sand box, conflict driven MMO. All aspects of the game are intertwined, risk free isk grinding in high sec effects everyone equally. As does mining. There is a term for the way in which this effects MMOs, the term is called mudflation. Without sufficient isk sinks or ship destruction rampant monetary inflation occurs, similarly "rare" items become increasingly common until the game is saturated. At this point most games die, and in Eve the beginnings of mudflation are already being seen in the rampant super capital and titan proliferation. Similarly pirate BS, t2 command ships, t3s and standard capitals are becoming more and more commonplace. CCP have begun to address this issue with the recent drone region changes, we can hope only that they succeed.
Funny how nobody worries about the mudflation effects of deep null sec though. Nobody is in Paradigm Soul smashing the evil madflating ratters or up in Dek, crushing the nasty mudflating plex runners.
Oh wait, that takes a bit more than a Desi.
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1031
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 19:39:00 -
[102] - Quote
Skydell wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Because this is a sand box, conflict driven MMO. All aspects of the game are intertwined, risk free isk grinding in high sec effects everyone equally. As does mining.
There is a term for the way in which this effects MMOs, the term is called mudflation. Without sufficient isk sinks or ship destruction rampant monetary inflation occurs, similarly "rare" items become increasingly common until the game is saturated.
At this point most games die, and in Eve the beginnings of mudflation are already being seen in the rampant super capital and titan proliferation. Similarly pirate BS, t2 command ships, t3s and standard capitals are becoming more and more commonplace.
CCP have begun to address this issue with the recent drone region changes, we can hope only that they succeed. Funny how nobody worries about the mudflation effects of deep null sec though. Nobody is in Paradigm Soul smashing the evil madflating ratters or up in Dek, crushing the nasty mudflating plex runners. Oh wait, that takes a bit more than a Desi. What, people don't gank to fight mudflation. My point was that ganking and PvP shouldn't be discouraged, because it helps fight mudflation. There is a distinct difference.
And, for what it's worth, some of us are arguing to make Eve more difficult for null sec and low sec players as well.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Pok Nibin
Viziam Amarr Empire
165
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 19:45:00 -
[103] - Quote
Funny how Vyl's question just got OVERLOOKED. WHY? What's the POINT? This constant harangue about carebears and PvP is getting to be no more than digital nailbiting. So, I'll TELL you why. There IS no why. What we have here are people trying something they've little skill with - THINKING. We should pay some people NOT to think.
Carebears MUST PvP, or ELSE! I'd rather listen to a 4-year old crying in the mall cause momma won't buy that toy. It makes more sense. Don't fight it.-á Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs.-á You know you want to. |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 19:52:00 -
[104] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:
Carebears MUST PvP, or ELSE! I'd rather listen to a 4-year old crying in the mall cause momma won't buy that toy. It makes more sense.
And we must according to the devs in that latest Inferno Video released 2 day or so ago ("These spectacular new missile explosions will bring even more miner tears"). We've lost.
One account expires in mere hours. Another tomorrow. The new account has still 14 days of trial and it's first paid month, and the other another paid month (from the new account creation) unfortunately.
That's 800 a year for the 4.
Money is all they will listen to now, if that. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Ilnaurk Sithdogron
Crunchy Crunchy Peregrine Nation
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 20:05:00 -
[105] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Arenas simply don't belong in EVE. As special events, sure, but not as a feature. For that, we have the test server.
In my opinion, a much better method would be to tie pvp into missions. Not that that would change much, since they'd just stop running missions anyway. These people are called carebears for a reason. They will use any excuse, and find any means, to avoid in-game situations that even slightly raise their heart rates.
A lot of you nullsec people who tell high-sec dwellers to HTFU need to take a long look at themselves.
I know that most nullsec players immediately go cower in their PoS when a single AFK cloaker appears in the system. Whenever I leave a station, I accept the fact that I could die at any time and I am willing to take that risk, but apparently many nullsec players aren't willing to do the same. Seems like many of you folks are sheep in wolves' clothing. http://eve-sojourn.blogspot.com/
Sojourn, a newbie's EVE blog. |
Pres Crendraven
32
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 20:07:00 -
[106] - Quote
I'm pretty interested in the funding for the highend pirates that can afford to put 10 billion at risk. I wouldn't think that ganking industrialist that don't add anything to the game could provide this kind of ISK. This kind of funding could keep noobs in free play and ships.
I may be wrong but I think most players come here as PVPers. Carebears are pilots violenced at an early age that have begun the trip out the door. The have not given up but they are beaten. EVE isn't advertised as an industrial building game. PVE as a means to an end is taught in the tutorials. The first thing I wanted to do when I came here was shoot somebody. The rules of engagement were too complex. I pushed the kid side of me back inside, rules bring out the adult in people and so I learned PVE industry since I always admired smokestacks. The tutorial, the rules, my adult side and my heritage all combined to make me into a manager CEO. Its always been a very adult pastime here at EVE. I wanted to bust lose and be a kid but It didn't make sense.
If you want to encourage pvp, it needs done in the tutorials. Concord rules were a definite problem for me as a noob. NPC corps should be at war with their opposing factions. If you want to escape war, join a corp not the other way around. make all of eve a battlefield but Boost income for noobs so the pain of loss is not so great. I know its part of the thrill but my first pvp loss took me a month and a half to acquire. I don't know where the line is at but have you run level one and two missions for a while? This toon was all about new player experience. I couldn't stand it. prices are out of balance with income. I can put a new BC together in a couple hours. a noob has to play for a couple weeks to put a nice frigate together. Balance out the prices with mineral content drops on hull bpo's. give pvp missions, and put a great bounty on them.
I CEOed 60 to a hundred, not all at once. I saw the same thing over and over. New enthusiastic guys coming in and beaten by pvp going out. Successes were too few. We replaced isk with corp ops where they were over compensated for token participation. I could not figure a way to immunize people from the pain of those first few losses. Many were traumatized for weeks, most were discouraged, only a few learned to shrug it off, then they faded away. I kept touch with the guys, The pirates left, the warriors left, scammers left, two missioners stayed till the last nerfs, one miner with a military background carries on the dream in null, and one faction warfare.
All that stayed had similar characteristics, we all took care of each other. CAREBEARS at heart stayed. Fathers, older brothers, commanders and supervisors in real life. Many ridicule these people but If I started a corp today they would be my directors, not the pvpers. I would not care. I'd run through PVP'ers like a meat-grinder if I could find a way to fund it that hasn't been nerfed to death. Meta34me
Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1031
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 20:13:00 -
[107] - Quote
Pres Crendraven wrote:I may be wrong but I think most players come here as PVPers. Carebears are pilots violenced at an early age that have begun the trip out the door. You are wrong. This is a quote from a low sec miner I found earlier today:
> why? > I will rest only in mining, is that possible?
Not only did some of Eve's player base come here with no intention of ever PvPing, they came here with no intention of interacting with the sand box elements of Eve online in any way. Even in low sec.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 20:14:00 -
[108] - Quote
Good Hedbergite wrote:
The biggest part of the problem is that most noobs and carebears don't know how to fight and learning is a huge time and ISK investment they don't feel like making.
No offense but I find it funny how many Chuck Norris wannabes on the forums try to figure out how to make EVERYONE do pvp... or try to figure out why they don't.
Answer is pretty simple, some people simply don't like it, and they don't have to just because you want them to.
End of story pretty much.
|
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 20:16:00 -
[109] - Quote
Ilnaurk Sithdogron wrote: Seems like many of you folks are sheep in wolves' clothing.
That's usually the case with Bullies. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 20:17:00 -
[110] - Quote
Pres Crendraven wrote:I'm pretty interested in the funding for the highend pirates that can afford to put 10 billion at risk. I wouldn't think that ganking industrialist that don't add anything to the game could provide this kind of ISK. This kind of funding could keep noobs in free play and ships.
I may be wrong but I think most players come here as PVPers.
This is so psychotically wrong, there is just something wrong with you at a fundamental level. I can't even read the rest. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
|
Pres Crendraven
32
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 20:20:00 -
[111] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Pres Crendraven wrote:I may be wrong but I think most players come here as PVPers. Carebears are pilots violenced at an early age that have begun the trip out the door. You are wrong. This is a quote from a low sec miner I found earlier today: > why? > I will rest only in mining, is that possible? Not only did some of Eve's player base come here with no intention of ever PvPing, they came here with no intention of interacting with the sand box elements of Eve online in any way. Even in low sec.
I'm talking about the first few days. The first few days a new miner won't be in lowsec unless they are an alt.
Meta34me
Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent. |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 20:22:00 -
[112] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Not only did some of Eve's player base come here with no intention of ever PvPing, they came here with no intention of interacting with the sand box elements of Eve online in any way. Even in low sec.
Now THAT is silly of them indeed.
Anyway, what these "PvP or ELSE" folks do not seem to understand is that some people actually have (shocker!) Lives.
They just do not have the time for the coordination of fleets, battles, waiting at gates, and all the other stuff that goes into true combat scenarios. Much less Alarm Clock Ops. That stuff is pretty much expected of those who participate. These people will NEVER never get involved.
If cCP has determined that this is not the case and all must participate in this in some manner, that's fine. But they need to plan on a flood of unsubscriptions, and to STOP ADVERTISING EVE AS A SANDBOX.
Then there would be no issue. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1031
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 20:29:00 -
[113] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:
Not only did some of Eve's player base come here with no intention of ever PvPing, they came here with no intention of interacting with the sand box elements of Eve online in any way. Even in low sec.
Now THAT is silly of them indeed. Anyway, what these "PvP or ELSE" folks do not seem to understand is that some people actually have (shocker!) Lives. They just do not have the time for the coordination of fleets, battles, waiting at gates, and all the other stuff that goes into true combat scenarios. Much less Alarm Clock Ops. That stuff is pretty much expected of those who participate. These people will NEVER never get involved. If cCP has determined that this is not the case and all must participate in this in some manner, that's fine. But they need to plan on a flood of unsubscriptions, and to STOP ADVERTISING EVE AS A SANDBOX. Then there would be no issue. I don't think you understand what a sand box style MMO is.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 20:34:00 -
[114] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote: I don't think you understand what a sand box style MMO is.
That makes no sense after what I typed. I quite clearly do. Even agreeing that it's silly to expect safety in Low Sec. So.........??????? Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Pres Crendraven
33
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 20:42:00 -
[115] - Quote
and he calls me crazy??? Meta34me
Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1031
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 20:42:00 -
[116] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote: I don't think you understand what a sand box style MMO is.
That makes no sense after what I typed. I quite clearly do. Even agreeing that it's silly to expect safety in Low Sec. So.........??????? You insinuate that some players, due to a lack of time or effort, should be able to be left exempt from the risk of PvP. This constitutes segregation of PvE and PvP, and is anathema to the ideals of the sand box MMO design philosophy.
The below quote shows that what you believe to be a "sand box MMO" is actually a themepark MMO:
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:If cCP has determined that this is not the case and all must participate in this in some manner, that's fine. But they need to plan on a flood of unsubscriptions, and to STOP ADVERTISING EVE AS A SANDBOX.
Then there would be no issue. I suspect that at some point someone has said to you that in a sand box MMO you are free to do what you wish, and that you have chosen to interpret this as meaning that players are free to engage in PvE without the risk of intervention.
This is simply a matter of semantics, a common misconception on the definition of sand box style game play. What is actually meant is that in a sand box MMO environment everyone is free to do as they wish within the confines of the game's mechanics and design, but that design is guided by ideals that interlink PvP and PvE in a way that allows players to interact freely.
What is actually meant when people say "players can do as they wish", is that players can interact with one another as they wish. Including interacting by interrupting the game play of other players.
This is a perfect description of Eve online's core game design philosophy, and as such CCP are perfectly valid when advertising their product using such a term.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1031
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 20:47:00 -
[117] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:They just do not have the time for the coordination of fleets, battles, waiting at gates, and all the other stuff that goes into true combat scenarios. Much less Alarm Clock Ops. That stuff is pretty much expected of those who participate. These people will NEVER never get involved. I'd also like to add that I do actually agree with this. I used to help run a 350 man low sec alliance, I no longer have the time to do so and do not personally engage in very much PvP.
That said, my PvE activities put me at risk of non-consensual PvP. And this is what most of us are talking about when we talk about forcing care bears to accept that PvP is a way of life in Eve.
Not forcing people to gate camp, go to CTAs or lead fleets but merely to accept that they must avoid PvP in order to PvE effectively.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Pres Crendraven
33
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 21:08:00 -
[118] - Quote
I haven't seen any comment on my idea to turn NPC corps into warring factions. I know fabulaoso quit reading my drivel because my cynicism was to veiled but
lets do a What if.
What if all noobs were plunged into war at the outset.
What if skill points PUSHED you into different rank npc corps, we already have dozens within a faction.
What if, you could escape war by joining a player corp
What if noob npc corps could agress experienced corps but not the other way around? Meta34me
Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent. |
Lustralis
Tiny Holdings
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 21:14:00 -
[119] - Quote
Pres Crendraven wrote:I haven't seen any comment on my idea to turn NPC corps into warring factions. I know fabulaoso quit reading my drivel because my cynicism was to veiled but
lets do a What if.
What if all noobs were plunged into war at the outset.
What if skill points PUSHED you into different rank npc corps, we already have dozens within a faction.
What if, you could escape war by joining a player corp
What if noob npc corps could agress experienced corps but not the other way around?
Then Eve would have fewer subs? |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1031
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 21:17:00 -
[120] - Quote
Pres Crendraven wrote:I haven't seen any comment on my idea to turn NPC corps into warring factions. I know fabulaoso quit reading my drivel because my cynicism was to veiled but
lets do a What if.
What if all noobs were plunged into war at the outset.
What if skill points PUSHED you into different rank npc corps, we already have dozens within a faction.
What if, you could escape war by joining a player corp
What if noob npc corps could agress experienced corps but not the other way around? Then I would roll 6 low SP rifter alts, install synergy and go on a rampage.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
|
MrDiao
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 21:23:00 -
[121] - Quote
GANK THEM |
Wilma Lawson
Hedion University Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 21:43:00 -
[122] - Quote
Yes, this has worked in the past. |
Pres Crendraven
34
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 21:44:00 -
[123] - Quote
Excellent!
Can you do that today? Can I limit these what ifs at this point to very new players, say under two weeks? You only get about 50000 skillpoints to start but at the end of a couple weeks your rifters would be pretty potent. Could be quite a battlefield to walk in with a few 6 man gangs potentially in the wings.
What if we limited isk supplements for the first couple weeks? so we have a level playing field with isk as well as skillpoints? Would that discourage nooblet griefers enough?
And from the new customers point of view:
Since we have to work to pay for our next ship and its in an at war environment, How long should a mining or ratting or missioning velator need to work to buy a new pvp frigate and meta0 mods?
How would PVE under war conditions be perceived by a noob? Exciting but necessary or overwhelming? Meta34me
Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent. |
Pres Crendraven
34
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 21:46:00 -
[124] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:
Not only did some of Eve's player base come here with no intention of ever PvPing, they came here with no intention of interacting with the sand box elements of Eve online in any way. Even in low sec.
Now THAT is silly of them indeed. Anyway, what these "PvP or ELSE" folks do not seem to understand is that some people actually have (shocker!) Lives. They just do not have the time for the coordination of fleets, battles, waiting at gates, and all the other stuff that goes into true combat scenarios. Much less Alarm Clock Ops. That stuff is pretty much expected of those who participate. These people will NEVER never get involved. If cCP has determined that this is not the case and all must participate in this in some manner, that's fine. But they need to plan on a flood of unsubscriptions, and to STOP ADVERTISING EVE AS A SANDBOX. Then there would be no issue.
I think this is very valid, I've come to a conclusion that our fleet window and social networking software is the bottleneck at this stage of the game. Meta34me
Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
100
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 21:59:00 -
[125] - Quote
Quote:some type of training/arena area.
some type of "ground" you could "battle" on
a "battleground" if you will. And it could offer capture and hold or CTF style play...
go back to WoW :P http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2317/JKES0811.17.1 Bees That Drink Human Tears -- ITS SCIENCE!!! |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
510
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 23:00:00 -
[126] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:Funny how Vyl's question just got OVERLOOKED. WHY? What's the POINT? This constant harangue about carebears and PvP is getting to be no more than digital nailbiting. So, I'll TELL you why. There IS no why. What we have here are people trying something they've little skill with - THINKING. We should pay some people NOT to think.
Carebears MUST PvP, or ELSE! I'd rather listen to a 4-year old crying in the mall cause momma won't buy that toy. It makes more sense. Carebears don't have to pvp, they simply have to stop their whining and incessant pleas for CCP to change the rules when they get exposed to pvp without their consent.
Ilnaurk Sithdogron wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Arenas simply don't belong in EVE. As special events, sure, but not as a feature. For that, we have the test server.
In my opinion, a much better method would be to tie pvp into missions. Not that that would change much, since they'd just stop running missions anyway. These people are called carebears for a reason. They will use any excuse, and find any means, to avoid in-game situations that even slightly raise their heart rates. A lot of you nullsec people who tell high-sec dwellers to HTFU need to take a long look at themselves. I know that most nullsec players immediately go cower in their PoS when a single AFK cloaker appears in the system. Whenever I leave a station, I accept the fact that I could die at any time and I am willing to take that risk, but apparently many nullsec players aren't willing to do the same. Seems like many of you folks are sheep in wolves' clothing. I haven't been in null since 2009, and that type of attitude is exactly why I decided to leave. Everyone single one of my combat characters now either does high-sec or wormhole pvp.
Pres Crendraven wrote:All that stayed had similar characteristics, we all took care of each other. CAREBEARS at heart stayed. Fathers, older brothers, commanders and supervisors in real life. Many ridicule these people but If I started a corp today they would be my directors, not the pvpers. I would not care. I'd run through PVP'ers like a meat-grinder if I could find a way to fund it that hasn't been nerfed to death. But you'd still be better off with a person who understands the meaning behind violence. A hundred sheep led by a lion are more dangerous than a hundred lions led by a sheep. Maybe that's why your efforts to grind up the pvpers have been fruitless all this time.
Pres Crendraven wrote:I can put a new BC together in a couple hours. a noob has to play for a couple weeks to put a nice frigate together. That's insane. I don't mean to insult you, but how bad at the game do you have to be for that to be the case? Eight years ago, I had my first million in fifteen minutes of starting my first character. Money was a whole lot less common back then.
Weeks for a frigate? Really? |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 23:07:00 -
[127] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Fabulousli Obvious wrote: That stuff is pretty much expected of those who participate. These people will NEVER never get involved. I'd also like to add that I do actually agree with this. I used to help run a 350 man low sec alliance, I no longer have the time to do so and do not personally engage in very much PvP. That said, my PvE activities put me at risk of non-consensual PvP. And this is what most of us are talking about when we talk about forcing care bears to accept that PvP is a way of life in Eve. Not forcing people to gate camp, go to CTAs or lead fleets but merely to accept that they must avoid PvP in order to PvE effectively.
Yes, I understand this about the sandbox, and that is indeed how it's been for the over 2 years I've played. And the 'occasionally intrusive' PvP has always been manageable.
It's only been the past couple of months that a complete hostile eye has been turned towards everything high sec, especially the ideas of mining and Industry. And a real concerted focus to get Industrialists to fight for the right to do what they do, as IF they have to hold some kind of magical Sov in High Sec they were not told about. I thought fighting for your right to 'great stuff' was for Low and Null. Gee, lets change the rules UTTERLY in the middle. Ha HA, funny.....now give me my money back.
Add to this the near record number of War Decs esp. from the Goons upon tiny Corps....they simply CANNOT fight them. Not even financially. Maybe economically by never buying Moon Products Of Any Kind, but that'll be a really cold day in Hell. Unless every High Sec Industrialist stops making T2. Welp, guess what, that's moving to Low apparently, so we may as well just hand all that over to them now and just be done. More for Goons. Yay.
THIS is my problem, not the freaking simplistic 'risk of PvP'.
Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 23:13:00 -
[128] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: Carebears don't have to pvp, they simply have to stop their whining and incessant pleas for CCP to change the rules when they get exposed to pvp without their consent.
True, agreed. But they have the right to scream and kick and bite and speak their minds when their tiny High-Sec Corps are expected to defend against 20,000 coordinated CFC's, and MORE power to them. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Pres Crendraven
34
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 23:14:00 -
[129] - Quote
Destiny, No doubt I blame myself, thats why I still look for answers. How did you make 4 million an hour in the first 15 minutes of the game. Serioulsly. How much does a level one mission pay? how fast does a velator mine. I'm talking about a new character not an alt. You waltzed right in here and earned 4 million an hour? I like your alt perspective cause it shows where my ideas can be broken but Lets get on the same page, in a real noobs shoes not an alt. I came in as minmatar in highsec with zero MMO experience and zero Eve experience Meta34me
Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
510
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 23:18:00 -
[130] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:It's only been the past couple of months that a complete hostile eye has been turned towards everything high sec, especially the ideas of mining and Industry. And a real concerted focus to get Industrialists to fight for the right to do what they do, as IF they have to hold some kind of magical Sov in High Sec they were not told about. I thought fighting for your right to 'great stuff' was for Low and Null. Gee, lets change the rules UTTERLY in the middle. Ha HA, funny.....now give me my money back. Well, you thought wrong. The players made the rules, not the developers from whom you want to take back your money. You have an issue with this new type of player behavior? Change it by force or persuasion, and not by mommy's hand.
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Add to this the near record number of War Decs esp. from the Goons upon tiny Corps....they simply CANNOT fight them. Not even financially. Maybe economically by never buying Moon Products Of Any Kind, but that'll be a really cold day in Hell. Unless every High Sec Industrialist stops making T2. Welp, guess what, that's moving to Low apparently, so we may as well just hand all that over to them now and just be done. More for Goons. Yay.
THIS is my problem, not the freaking simplistic 'risk of PvP'. Goons wardec small corporations? When did this happen? Also, I find it laughable that you think carebears make T2 goods. No, carebears mine Veldspar, produce Ospreys and T1 mining crystals, and pat themselves on the back for their grandiose contribution to the game. The industrialists who run research and production POSes that take care of the T2 market play on a level that actually requires them to know how to defend their assets. On top of that, these industrialists know that the only reason their goods get bought is because players like myself constantly blow them up. |
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1031
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 23:20:00 -
[131] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Fabulousli Obvious wrote: That stuff is pretty much expected of those who participate. These people will NEVER never get involved. I'd also like to add that I do actually agree with this. I used to help run a 350 man low sec alliance, I no longer have the time to do so and do not personally engage in very much PvP. That said, my PvE activities put me at risk of non-consensual PvP. And this is what most of us are talking about when we talk about forcing care bears to accept that PvP is a way of life in Eve. Not forcing people to gate camp, go to CTAs or lead fleets but merely to accept that they must avoid PvP in order to PvE effectively. Yes, I understand this about the sandbox, and that is indeed how it's been for the over 2 years I've played. And the 'occasionally intrusive' PvP has always been manageable. It's only been the past couple of months that a complete hostile eye has been turned towards everything high sec, especially the ideas of mining and Industry. And a real concerted focus to get Industrialists to fight for the right to do what they do, as IF they have to hold some kind of magical Sov in High Sec they were not told about. I thought fighting for your right to 'great stuff' was for Low and Null. Gee, lets change the rules UTTERLY in the middle. Ha HA, funny.....now give me my money back. Add to this the near record number of War Decs esp. from the Goons upon tiny Corps....they simply CANNOT fight them. Not even financially. Maybe economically by never buying Moon Products Of Any Kind, but that'll be a really cold day in Hell. Unless every High Sec Industrialist stops making T2. Welp, guess what, that's moving to Low apparently, so we may as well just hand all that over to them now and just be done. More for Goons. Yay. THIS is my problem, not the freaking simplistic 'risk of PvP'. Have you actually looked at the changes planned by CCP? Even their war mechanics changes are buffs for high sec bears.
The only recent nerf to high sec was the incursion changes. Other than that I don't really see where this CCP goon stuff is coming from. I mean more ISK for goons because t2 production is moving to low sec? Really?
How are goons going to profit from that more than anybody else in null or low sec? And how would not buying tech hurt the goons? You think tech is their only source of income, or that they are the only suppliers of tech? OTEC control a reasonable amount of the tech supply, but OTEC isn't just goons. And even if it was, they don't control all the tech moons in Eve.
It just sounds like you're angry, but you aren't being very clear as to what about. Did he goons war dec you? Targetted in hulkageddon? Just fed up of reading these threads? Whatever it is, to be honest I cannot see it being a direct result of real changes by CCP. Because those changes just don't exist.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1031
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 23:21:00 -
[132] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote: Carebears don't have to pvp, they simply have to stop their whining and incessant pleas for CCP to change the rules when they get exposed to pvp without their consent.
True, agreed. But they have the right to scream and kick and bite and speak their minds when their tiny High-Sec Corps are expected to defend against 20,000 coordinated CFC's, and MORE power to them. Nvm, scratch my above comment.
My money is on the goons war deccing you.
*EDIT: Alt from the Honda accord I presume? Telling everyone you are going to quit because Issler told you she is "littlerally" being attacked by the CSM? You should just go awoxxer, kill issler and join goons. They are more fun, treat their members better and they don't whine and threaten to unsub.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1504
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 23:25:00 -
[133] - Quote
The game and the idea of PVP must evolve.
Most PVP is stupid ship loss in blob and get blobbed tactics. Even if you can get a carebear to like that, it will get old.
Those of us who don't throw ships into meat grinders look at the "Leet PVPer" as they brag about needing an alt for scouting, and alt for industry, and an alt for incursions/missions and think "idiot".
And I find that the "leet" are hugging high sec as much as the carebears do, but for different reasons. The game is very huge, but to both carebear and the elites who hunt them, their approach to the game still puts them in a very small box.
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
510
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 23:26:00 -
[134] - Quote
Pres Crendraven wrote:Destiny, No doubt I blame myself, thats why I still look for answers. How did you make 4 million an hour in the first 15 minutes of the game. Serioulsly. How much does a level one mission pay? how fast does a velator mine. I'm talking about a new character not an alt. You waltzed right in here and earned 4 million an hour? I like your alt perspective cause it shows where my ideas can be broken but Lets get on the same page, in a real noobs shoes not an alt. I came in as minmatar in highsec with zero MMO experience and zero Eve experience I did the training complex in Duripant, looted all the cans, then refined everything at the station and sold the minerals to buy orders. Combined with the 5,000 ISK I started with, I clearly remember having almost a million ISK in my wallet in just a few minutes. My attitude toward the game wasn't "oh gawd, dis so compleks! how to doing stuffz??/" My attitude was "hm, I'm going to shoot this thing with this gun I have, and then pry whatever it drops from its cold, dead hands."
Within just a few days, I learned the market system and did the buy low/sell high thing. That was back when we had NPC trade good courier routes.
I sold my first "Cerberus" only three weeks into the game. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1031
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 23:28:00 -
[135] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:The game and the idea of PVP must evolve.
Most PVP is stupid ship loss in blob and get blobbed tactics. Even if you can get a carebear to like that, it will get old.
Those of us who don't throw ships into meat grinders look at the "Leet PVPer" as they brag about needing an alt for scouting, and alt for industry, and an alt for incursions/missions and think "idiot".
And I find that the "leet" are hugging high sec as much as the carebears do, but for different reasons. The game is very huge, but to both carebear and the elites who hunt them, their approach to the game still puts them in a very small box.
Hates blobs, doesn't scout.
I like your style.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1505
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 23:39:00 -
[136] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:The game and the idea of PVP must evolve.
Most PVP is stupid ship loss in blob and get blobbed tactics. Even if you can get a carebear to like that, it will get old.
Those of us who don't throw ships into meat grinders look at the "Leet PVPer" as they brag about needing an alt for scouting, and alt for industry, and an alt for incursions/missions and think "idiot".
And I find that the "leet" are hugging high sec as much as the carebears do, but for different reasons. The game is very huge, but to both carebear and the elites who hunt them, their approach to the game still puts them in a very small box.
Hates blobs, doesn't scout. I like your style.
No you should hate my style and me along with it. What's wrong with you?
|
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 23:39:00 -
[137] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote: Carebears don't have to pvp, they simply have to stop their whining and incessant pleas for CCP to change the rules when they get exposed to pvp without their consent.
True, agreed. But they have the right to scream and kick and bite and speak their minds when their tiny High-Sec Corps are expected to defend against 20,000 coordinated CFC's, and MORE power to them. Nvm, scratch my above comment. My money is on the goons war deccing you. *EDIT: Alt from the Honda accord I presume? Telling everyone you are going to quit because Issler told you she is "littlerally" being attacked by the CSM? You should just go awoxxer, kill issler and join goons. They are more fun, treat their members better and they don't whine and threaten to unsub.
lol. Nope. I just read the news and forums. And hear Local chatter. Especially the Local chatter. Used to not happen that much, but people are actually talking about this stuff. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 23:39:00 -
[138] - Quote
Good Hedbergite wrote:I'm a new player (9M SP) returning after a two year hiatus. It seems the carebear vs PvPer mentalities haven't changed one bit, so I've come up with an idea that could encourage new players and carebears to actually WANT to get more involved with PvP and it's simple - hands on training!
The biggest part of the problem is that most noobs and carebears don't know how to fight and learning is a huge time and ISK investment they don't feel like making.
This time around, I'm much more interested in PvPing (I was a carebear last time) - so I don't mind spending the time and ISK - but here's the typical scenario for getting some practice at PvP:
Build a ship - 15-30 minutes Fly to an area and hunt for a semi-fair fight - 15-30+ minutes Fight and die - approx 3-5 minutes
So roughly an hour+ investment for 3-minutes of actual "fight training" - which is fine if you WANT to be a PvPer. If you're a carebear, it's a pain in the butt, a timesink, and all risk with no reward.
So? Where am I going with this
Where you are going wrong is in the very premise of what you are hoping to do. Honestly, if you have noticed that after two years, the "Carebear vs. PVPer" is still going on, maybe you should just accept it as a given dynamic of the game.
Some people just want to casually play their game and remain in high sec, mining, trading, manufacturing, researching or mission running. Why is it that anyone should want them to change their play style?
I am also looking to do some more PVP myself. But, I don't expect others to change their play style so I can do it. I will take my ship out into low sec and search for a target. I also hate to be forced to PVP when I don't want to. I hate war decs, and I usually avoid them by switching to an alt to make my isk for my main toon. I really wish CCP would just make war decs mutual and tie them some kind of a reward system (LPs) to encourage corporations who decide they do want to go to war.
I also wish CCP would intorduce a PVP flagging system. This way, if you wanted to PVP wherever you are, you could just flag yourself for PVP.
Bottomline is, there is plenty of PVP out there if you want it. Unless you're willing to pay the subscription of another player, let them play their way. To join Heimatar Military Industries-á visit website or conatct Bluddwolf in-gamewww.hmi.guildlaunch.com |
Fabulousli Obvious
State War Academy Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 23:41:00 -
[139] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote: Whatever it is, to be honest I cannot see it being a direct result of real changes by CCP. Because those changes just don't exist.
The willingly blind will stay that way. Last words:-á Either that wallpaper goes, or I do. ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900 |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1031
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 23:51:00 -
[140] - Quote
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote: Whatever it is, to be honest I cannot see it being a direct result of real changes by CCP. Because those changes just don't exist.
The willingly blind will stay that way. I especially like the part where you link the changes.
Even the new war system CCP have backed out of adding the deserter flag, as it stands now the new war system does nothing but close corp hopping abuse that was being used to hide WTs from scouts until they undocked/entered system. It also adds the ally system, which is supposed to help care bears, but to be honest probably won't.
Care bears can still drop to NPC, or disband corp and reform. Or swap to a different corp until the dec is over etc. Nothing has changed.
Besides that the only changes have been to buff concord response, to kill the boomerang and to remove insurance. Yeah, CCP really have it in for the care bears, eh?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
510
|
Posted - 2012.05.20 23:55:00 -
[141] - Quote
Bluddwolf wrote:I also wish CCP would intorduce a PVP flagging system. This way, if you wanted to PVP wherever you are, you could just flag yourself for PVP. Thanks for ruining my game. |
Hanuman Li Tosh
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 00:21:00 -
[142] - Quote
Good Hedbergite wrote:I'm a new player (9M SP) returning after a two year hiatus. It seems the carebear vs PvPer mentalities haven't changed one bit, so I've come up with an idea that could encourage new players and carebears to actually WANT to get more involved with PvP and it's simple - hands on training!
The biggest part of the problem is that most noobs and carebears don't know how to fight and learning is a huge time and ISK investment they don't feel like making.
This time around, I'm much more interested in PvPing (I was a carebear last time) - so I don't mind spending the time and ISK - but here's the typical scenario for getting some practice at PvP:
Build a ship - 15-30 minutes Fly to an area and hunt for a semi-fair fight - 15-30+ minutes Fight and die - approx 3-5 minutes
So roughly an hour+ investment for 3-minutes of actual "fight training" - which is fine if you WANT to be a PvPer. If you're a carebear, it's a pain in the butt, a timesink, and all risk with no reward.
So? Where am I going with this - some type of training/arena area. This would build CONFIDENCE in new players and carebears and after a few arena-style fights (ie. 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, or 5v5) - they would get tired of "practice" fights and be excited to get out there and actually participate in the real-deal.
There would be NO REWARDS - by doing so it would eliminate the possibility that people just login and fight in arena style situations. It certainly wouldn't pull existing PvPer's in, as they're already trained and can fight for REAL and make some great ISK by doing so... In fact, it would probably be a good idea to limit the number of fights to 1-2 per day so as to prevent the system from 'stealing' already existing PvPers away from real battle.
I could envision the ability to zone into a battleground type situation and purchase a standard pre-fit type of ship. If you want to learn electronic warfare, you could grab a Blackbird (or equivalent) with standard ECM gear equipped and go learn how to USE it against other players. You would also be able to learn to fly in a fleet in the 5v5 variations and learn the value of having a couple of frigs, an ECM boat, and a few BC/BS's.
This 1. gets rid of the time spent building ships and hunting for a fight 2. builds the desire and confidence of noobs and carebears to defend themselves and actually get more involved in the PvP world instead of crying about it and 3. would allow players to learn new types of ships and the 'stock' fittings associated with that playstyle before they dive into combat and get their ass handed to them.
Again, in no way would I want to see this system distract from the 'real-life' PvP that occurs - but it would be a great option for new players and carebears to learn and build confidence on HOW to participate in both solo and gang warfare. After a handful of skirmishes in a new type of boat, most players would be WANTING to get out there in 'real-life- and try it out in a genuine battle.
I'm interested in hearing thoughts on both how this idea could be better and implemented without impacting the natural flow of the 'real-world' in EvE - and also, feel free to punch holes in the idea as I'm sure there are reprecussions I'm not even thinking about.
Thanks for reading.
The premise that you can convince someone to do something they don't want to do by analyzing why they don't want to do it and changing that factor is fail.
When you find yourself on a forum psychoanalyzing how to make people do what you want them to in a video game, you should take a step back and look at why you are trying to manipulate people's real lives via the internet.
|
Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 00:39:00 -
[143] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Bluddwolf wrote:I also wish CCP would intorduce a PVP flagging system. This way, if you wanted to PVP wherever you are, you could just flag yourself for PVP. Thanks for ruining my game.
Please clarify, why does this ruin your game?
If you want to PVP more often, flag yourself for it. If you don;t want to PVP, don't flag yourself and don't go into low sec or 0.0 space.
I played Fallen Earth for some time, and in that MMO my clan always travelled PVP flagged. There really was a different feel to being a pvper in a game where you did it by choice, and the only targetys you had were those who did it by choice as well. Same went for SWG and other MMOs that use this system.
So, again, please clarify how it ruins your game? To join Heimatar Military Industries-á visit website or conatct Bluddwolf in-gamewww.hmi.guildlaunch.com |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
510
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 00:48:00 -
[144] - Quote
Do you pvp in EVE? If you do, the answer is kind of obvious. Being in a situation where anyone else can spontaneously initiate hostilities and you are only able to retaliate is entirely different from being in a situation where both parties can attack at any time. And don't compare this to ganking; gankers are guaranteed to lose their ships to CONCORD even if their ganking attempt is unsuccessful. The only people who would use your pvp flag will be the ones with three dozen logistics on standby.
But it's okay, you might get your pvp flag after all if the "suspect flag" idea gets implemented (and it probably will). |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 01:02:00 -
[145] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Tobiaz wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:As a rich care bear, I'd like to let you know you're wrong. Whilst yes, I do have several crystal/virtue sets I simply JC out of them if I'm going to go fly a frigate hull or something in null sec.
Probably also worth noting, I quite often PvE and scan in whs/null sec with two t3s and two crystal sets and a cov ops scanner with a virtue set. Then again im not exactly a risk averse care bear.
Anyway, this is not exclusive to care bears. I have snake and slave implants for PvP, as do a lot of other PvP players who have ever played in low sec.
Making pods invincible is just stupid, and i think that comes under the label of "dumbing down Eve". A perfect example how jumpclones have completely undermined some of EVE's core design principles. People shouldn't be able to have a min-maxed jumpclone for every occasion. It breaks the important balance of having to make decisions and deal with the consequences. Well that is just stupid, should people once they bought a slave set never fly shield ships? Should people with crystals never fly buffer? I have a very expensive clone with nomads and +6% implants, should I never jump out of a super despite owning a holding toon? Not to mention the fact that without jump clones no low sec pirate or high sec care bear would ever enter null sec ever again.
Huh?
They can fly anything they want. If they decide to buy ultra expensive implants but are not fully committed to using ships and modules that are supported by those implants its their own fault. They can switch them out at their own expense.
Jump clones make the game too easy and safe. |
Pres Crendraven
35
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 01:28:00 -
[146] - Quote
I agree but OP is taking people that want to change.
Meta34me
Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent. |
Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 01:58:00 -
[147] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Being in a situation where anyone else can spontaneously initiate hostilities and you are only able to retaliate is entirely different from being in a situation where both parties can attack at any time. .
How would this be any different then going into low sec?
When we travel into low sec, we are subject to either attack or the other ship will ignore or flee. Just because two ships are flagged, does not mean they will fight. There are always other options.
Having a flag system in high sec, rather than the war dec system, would allow those players who choose to to have PVP where and when they choose. If a corporation or alliance chooses to go to war (pvp flagging their entire membership) that can still be done. They would use whatever internal political process they have for it.
What I'm suggesting is that there be ways to have even more PVP, not less. The only difference is that it would be up to the player whether or not he / she wants to particiapte. Low Sec and Null Sec remain unchanged. To join Heimatar Military Industries-á visit website or conatct Bluddwolf in-gamewww.hmi.guildlaunch.com |
Pres Crendraven
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 02:04:00 -
[148] - Quote
I think this would create more opportunity for pvp also but since WOW has a flag system, were not allowing ourselves to have it. It would make people that want to fight WOWlike. Meta34me
Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent. |
TravisWB
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 03:07:00 -
[149] - Quote
I know most of you just can't figure this out and the belief that mining carebears are rich is almost as rediculous as the claim that most miners are bots.
Most miners actually are barely playing the game. They DO AFK mine most of the time. About the only time they are not afk mining is during a mining op with at least one other actual player with whom they will private convo.
The other mining carebear is usually a socially challenged type player with at least 2 and maybe as many as 9 other accounts, all miners and in the same mini corp.
Put real simply, they are playing EVE the way they want to.
They could care less about PVP and when they are confronted with it, either through wardec or suicide ganking they will almost always do either: Go back into a NPC or if in a NPC and being suicide griefed, they quit the game either for a while but more often, forever.
Mining is what they like to do, most of the time it is ALL they want to do and stamp your feet and hold your breath all you like, they will not change.
I have single handedly destroyed mini- miner corps via wardec.
I have been involved with MANY 50+ member corps and seen them permaquit enmasse so that only a core of a few remain n response to wardecs and suicide griefing.
It is not possible to make carebears do anything other than play the game like they want.
EVE just needs to hope they can attract enough new ones to keep inflation in check.
Hint, THEY CAN'T. |
Aggressive Nutmeg
239
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 03:25:00 -
[150] - Quote
**** it. Why not have a PvP arena? You could easily create a believable backstory behind this:
- A CONCORD-controlled system which is 0.0 but with unique conditions;
- System allows nothing larger than Frigates.
- Mechanics that guarantee 1v1 fights only. ie. Any third player that jumps in and tries to rep, web, shoot either party is immediately CONCORDED.
I think this would be a great way to encourage new players to try PvP - albeit a limited form of PvP. Never make eye contact with someone while eating a banana. |
|
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
115
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 03:54:00 -
[151] - Quote
Good Hedbergite wrote:How to get carebears to WANT to PvP.
pay them a lot of money to pvp. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
No More Heroes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
187
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 04:27:00 -
[152] - Quote
1. Unplug your +5's
2. Target the nearest ship.
3. F1
4. YES
5. DIAF
6. A killer is born. . |
Zoe Athame
Aliastra Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 04:29:00 -
[153] - Quote
Aggressive Nutmeg wrote:**** it. Why not have a PvP arena? You could easily create a believable backstory behind this:
- A CONCORD-controlled system which is 0.0 but with unique conditions;
- System allows nothing larger than Frigates.
- Mechanics that guarantee 1v1 fights only. ie. Any third player that jumps in and tries to rep, web, shoot either party is immediately CONCORDED.
I think this would be a great way to encourage new players to try PvP - albeit a limited form of PvP.
Join RvB today! |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 08:13:00 -
[154] - Quote
Romar Agent wrote:Roime wrote:Romar Agent wrote:... So EVE is played by those who like spaceship games. EVE is played by those who like MMOs. EVE is played by people who like spaceship MMOs. Those are all good reasons to play EVE, but I feel that it didn't exactly answer my question- why only deal with AI in a virtual universe full of real players? Humans create interesting content, provide endless challenges. I enjoy the sensations of victory and defeat, and CPU, a piece of silicon, is unable to give me those. Certainly. I personally play for storylines. In this case storylines embedded into the background of the four large empires. A storyline of slow progression and character development (it could be called grinding standing, but that's maybe half of it). I do know many people play for challenges, play to feel a rush of adrenaline or to win. That's not what drives me, I do not play for challenges. Why? Not sure. I'm basically juggling a work and family life and try to relax by delving into another world then and now. Maybe I don't feel I want to recreate what I can have in life anytime.
Props for putting thought into your answers, I can certainly respect your choices.
Perhaps the way people seek out stress relief is the dividing line here. I need the adrenaline surge to forget work stress and "get away", pvp combat requires intensive concentration and that's the best way for me to relax. Very much like other hobbies, I enjoy pushing myself into situation where full focus is mandatory or **** happens. This also shortens the time needed to relax.
EVE is unique in the way it creates the illusion of danger and risk. I was amazed at the reaction my first pvp encounters caused in me, and immediately hooked - I mean it's damn cheap and comfortable way to get very strong "kicks". I still get a very strong rush every time, and hope it lasts as long as the servers run :)
I can of course appreciate the slower way of immersion you described, just as long as PVE-focused people agree that there is no opt-out from the sandbox and let CCP develop EVE according to their unchanged, 9-year old vision that makes it so unique.
Fly proud!
In the beginning high security space was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
219
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 08:47:00 -
[155] - Quote
The clones system is strange. Maybe just remove it and "auto-clone" everyone so the lore isn't broken. Taking care of clones and the fear most have that all SP can be lost without proper clone may just be a turn off to pvp. EGD: If you jettison what's in your brain, at least expect can flipping. |
Cebiana Antonille
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 09:33:00 -
[156] - Quote
You want carebears to pvp. Well they do, lots and lots of them do, ya just gotta find 'em. My alt is a high sec pvp'r and MANY players up here love to pvp and are always looking for can fights, and other ways to pvp (and I am not talking about noob baiting) What would really jumpstart high sec pvp? pvp systems that we ourselves start pvp'ing in.
For instance INARI would be awesome. It is close enough to Jita so peeps can refit a new ship after a loss. It does not have a high occupancy generally and it is .05 sec so those of you who have taken standing hits can jump in to fight. Unpas is another system that some people are trying to jump start as a pvp system. It is next to Uitra which is a known pvp spot, but since it is a rookie system you can get banned by a cranky GM for tossing out a can.
Inari and Unpas - get the word out and kick a can out |
Jenn Ymor
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 10:52:00 -
[157] - Quote
I think if carebears want to pvp they will do it on their own terms, when they want and where they want. I encountered quite some pve-bears in my last years, and a surprising number of them at least had some genuine interest in pvp-activities, but were put off for a number of reasons. Some of those are just plain stupid, like believing that a certain number of skillpoints and/or skills is needed, or that you need at least some billions to fund your pvp-urges. Some are just based on a lack of information, like how does the flag system work, criminal flags, security standings and so on, and the willingness to learn more about those systems. And some were introduced to pvp in the wrong way, like you join a starter-corp that gets war decced and play station games all day long. No fun, so some just assume this IS pvp and dismiss it as boring.
I had to take severall attempts at pvp, and in some cases failed miserably. I started in FW, which just didn't work out all to well for newbie that know nothing about basic fleet tactics. Then I took into low with throw away ships and couldn't find fights, 'cause in eve you only attack when you know that your chances are better than your enemies. I got some thrills, but not much experience. Some field trips to Nullsec also didn't work out too well with bubbles on the entry gates.
What is missing is some kind of tutorial for PvP beginners. Sure, player corps can take this place, and many do, but not all carebears want to change corps to learn more about PvP. That's where we should start. |
Jie Jue
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 11:06:00 -
[158] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:I also wish CCP would intorduce a PVP flagging system. This way, if you wanted to PVP wherever you are, you could just flag yourself for PVP. Best idea yet ^^ |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 11:12:00 -
[159] - Quote
Jie Jue wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:I also wish CCP would intorduce a PVP flagging system. This way, if you wanted to PVP wherever you are, you could just flag yourself for PVP. Best idea yet ^^
Stupidest idea ever.
EVE is a virtual world, and that kind of flag would be stupidly unrealistic and immersion-breaking.
Stop thinking in terms of "PVP" and "PVE", it's just EVE. In the beginning high security space was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1033
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 11:43:00 -
[160] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:Well that is just stupid, should people once they bought a slave set never fly shield ships? Should people with crystals never fly buffer? I have a very expensive clone with nomads and +6% implants, should I never jump out of a super despite owning a holding toon?
Not to mention the fact that without jump clones no low sec pirate or high sec care bear would ever enter null sec ever again. Huh? They can fly anything they want. If they decide to buy ultra expensive implants but are not fully committed to using ships and modules that are supported by those implants its their own fault. They can switch them out at their own expense. Jump clones make the game too easy and safe. Well that's nice, but since you don't PvP and definitely don't own any capitals (let alone supers/titans) it probably wouldn't be an issue for you. Especially since I find it unlikely you even own any crystal/slave/snake/nomad/virtue sets.
For the rest of us who actually use these implants, and can afford the ships they go with, being locked into only ever flying one or two different ships is a good way to make us get bored and quit.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
|
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 13:32:00 -
[161] - Quote
Pres Crendraven wrote:I think this would create more opportunity for pvp also but since WOW has a flag system, were not allowing ourselves to have it. It would make people that want to fight WOWlike.
Yeah the flag PVP in WoW was awesome |
Burning Furry
Viziam Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 14:04:00 -
[162] - Quote
The biggest issue with PVP is the time sink.
1 hour making isk for the ship 15-30 mins flying around buying modules, fitting, insuring etc. 30 mins hunting for a fight DIAF in 1 min.
This is all well and good for those with hours and hours to burn, but its useless for those with limited playtime.
Please don't say "why it take u so long to earn isk?" or "why you no but mods in builk?" That all assumes i have a maxed character who earns shittons of cash in no time at all, and that i have a bank roll of billions.
The best way to get more carebears, myself included, to participate in PVP is to reduce the time barrier to entry. For someone with at max, 2 hours free time per day, PVP is very far from being a viable option in EVE.
Failing that, i will continue to play games such as World of Tanks where i can load, login, and fight in 3 minutes max. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
527
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 14:12:00 -
[163] - Quote
EVE isn't meant to be a game where you get fights as quickly as you can in deathmatch games like WoT, which is more like a tactical FPS than an MMO. In EVE, kills and losses mean something more than making the win counter go up by one, though we have that too. I'd rather have one good kill in three days, than ten generic ones in an hour.
Time isn't really a factor, since it's easy to efficiently stage multiple ships from a few favorable locations. However, I don't disagree that the cost might be prohibitive to some people; frigate pvp isn't glorious for everyone. Maybe a slight insurance adjustment can be made for cruisers and BCs (or alternatively, drop their mineral requirements a bit). That's as far as I'd be willing to go, however. |
Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 14:44:00 -
[164] - Quote
Another thread trying to convert PvE players to PvP.
Any designer with half a brain knows that is an uphill battle, and pointless since there are millions of PvPers in the world.
The real goal shold be to improve EVE PvP to the point where we draw in more PvPers from other games.
I'm an American, English is my second language... |
knulla
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
34
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 14:48:00 -
[165] - Quote
Bootleg Jack wrote:Another thread trying to convert PvE players to PvP.
Any designer with half a brain knows that is an uphill battle, and pointless since there are millions of PvPers in the world.
The real goal shold be to improve EVE PvP to the point where we draw in more PvPers from other games.
Finally!
Listen to this guy CCP, make all local chat like WH local, halve highsec and turn that into lowsec, create more 0.0, move all ISK incomes above level 3 missions and scordite ORE into lowsec and below, 0.0 and WHs. Improve and build content for 0.0 and lowsec players and make SOV battle and POS management better. Do more balancing and some fixes, improve war system, make it easier, implement the crimewatch changes already and realize how ******* ******** it is to have neuts boost (if they do they should be on grid,) and rep etc.
And a lot more, but it would be a start. |
Burning Furry
Viziam Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 15:24:00 -
[166] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:I'd rather have one good kill in three days, than ten generic ones in an hour.
Nothing generic about using your PZIV to kill an IS! Thats the equivalent of using a cruiser to kill a BS, which i believe fits under the "good kill" category. |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
81
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 16:38:00 -
[167] - Quote
Ituhata Saken wrote:Linna Excel wrote:Add missions that have a slightly higher reward and make people fly in PvP fits, but add a little risk to them: the things they'll be doing will be PvP situations with NPCs that have fits and tactics you'll see. Then put those missions by the borders of low and send people there every now and then.
I like it. If they geared missions to work or take advantage of typical pvp fits, people get familiar with them and if they do run into real players they might actually have a fighting chance that just doesn't exist in most pve builds.
Tougher Pve content is always a winner where I'm concerned, by tougher I'm not saying double the targets putting out double the firepower, that just leads to more tank and more gank but if certain NPC's (Bosses) needed to be pointed and if they used ewar more like in Pvp that would be great, but a huge detriment to the Ninja Salvager profession. what would they do if all the mission runners were Pvp fit. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
652
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 16:41:00 -
[168] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: These people are called carebears for a reason. They will use any excuse, and find any means, to avoid in-game situations that even slightly raise their heart rates.
There is a very good reason for that. Different people have different physiological reactions to adrenaline and The Rush.
The Rush is a good felling one gets with and after a burst of adrenaline associated with an exciting experience, like PvP combat. Not everyone gets The Rush. Some get no pleasure from adrenaline, and some actually feel bad or sick from it. According to Dr. Drew Pinsky, the difference between these people is genetic. You are born to get The Rush, or you are not. The result is some players will not enjoy PvP and actively seek to avoid it, and no amount of game tweaking will change that, because game tweaking will not change their genes. After all this is a game, people will tend to avoid game activities that make them sick. Instead they do cooperative activities, industry, missions and the like, or just play as solo players.
People who do not get The Rush can also enjoy activities like fishing, a sport that is more popular that any computer game, even WoW. Or puzzle games, or solitaire, or Golf (one of the most popular pastimes on the planet). These players like an activity that occupies the mind, is relaxing, and gives one a gentle feeling of accomplishment as they watch the isk pile up. For them, a certain amount of repetition is not boring, its reassuring and relaxing.
A much better thing to do with carebears is find a way that they can play their game in peace so they can provide a steady stream of income to CCP, allowing CCP to improve the game.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
81
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 16:43:00 -
[169] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Bluddwolf wrote:I also wish CCP would intorduce a PVP flagging system. This way, if you wanted to PVP wherever you are, you could just flag yourself for PVP. Thanks for ruining my game.
I don't see how that would ruin anything if you can flag yourself as a concord free target in Highsec, should make more ships go boom and isn't that the main goal? Of course it would lessen the need for the Pvp starved to leave highsec which I know peeves the losec, nullsec crowd. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
535
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 23:03:00 -
[170] - Quote
Zyress wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Bluddwolf wrote:I also wish CCP would intorduce a PVP flagging system. This way, if you wanted to PVP wherever you are, you could just flag yourself for PVP. Thanks for ruining my game. I don't see how that would ruin anything if you can flag yourself as a concord free target in Highsec, should make more ships go boom and isn't that the main goal? Of course it would lessen the need for the Pvp starved to leave highsec which I know peeves the losec, nullsec crowd. Because the main goal of all those seeking pvp is to have their own ships destroyed, am I right? |
|
Averyia
Ciera Kimoto
37
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 23:36:00 -
[171] - Quote
I think the biggest issue is when game performance drops drastically and for no reason, and its not just me, it makes playing the game difficult when the cursor and UI is moving at 10 fps. All warfare is based on deception and logistics. Battles and soldiers are secondary priorities. |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 14:56:00 -
[172] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Zyress wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Bluddwolf wrote:I also wish CCP would intorduce a PVP flagging system. This way, if you wanted to PVP wherever you are, you could just flag yourself for PVP. Thanks for ruining my game. I don't see how that would ruin anything if you can flag yourself as a concord free target in Highsec, should make more ships go boom and isn't that the main goal? Of course it would lessen the need for the Pvp starved to leave highsec which I know peeves the losec, nullsec crowd. Because the main goal of all those seeking pvp is to have their own ships destroyed, am I right?
If you are afraid then don't flag yourself, if not and you want to fight then flag yourself and go search for other flagged pvpers. Thats simple enough. People not flagged for pvp would draw a concord response for attacking a non war target in hisec like they always have. Flagging yourself for pvp would not change that. Only people flagged for pvp could fight without drawing a concord response. Otherwise its suicide ganking or attempted anyway. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
752
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:16:00 -
[173] - Quote
Zyress,
have you considered jumping thru a stargate leading out from high security space, or a wormhole?
If you insist, there you can imagine that you are waving a flag from your window.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
110
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:20:00 -
[174] - Quote
You release a patch that changes the UI and frustrates you and makes you want to do anything that doesn't involve it. Well done CCP . |
Arcticblue2
Nordic Freelancers inc
44
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:26:00 -
[175] - Quote
Why on earth would you need pve'ers to do more pvp ? I see some wants to move pve-contents into low-sec and 0.0 that's does not create pvp'ers, and quite honestly does not seems to be constructive other than trying to get more easy targets to pod. |
Calm Breeze
Treasures Collectors Solar Citizens
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:31:00 -
[176] - Quote
Why do you want to MAKE carebears PvP? How would you like it if we wanted to make PvP'ers mine? If we don't want to PvP, then we won't, it's our choice, life is full of choices and decisions, and I for one don't need someone else making mine! And yeah, I know all about non-consensual PvP once you log into the game, in those conditions I will fight, as best I can, but I will NOT be forced into being a PvP'er just because someone wants me to. |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:37:00 -
[177] - Quote
Roime wrote:Zyress,
have you considered jumping thru a stargate leading out from high security space, or a wormhole?
If you insist, there you can imagine that you are waving a flag from your window.
Been there done that, terribly uninteresting. |
Kara Vix
Vinegar Flies Peregrine Nation
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:10:00 -
[178] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote: These people are called carebears for a reason. They will use any excuse, and find any means, to avoid in-game situations that even slightly raise their heart rates. There is a very good reason for that. Different people have different physiological reactions to adrenaline and The Rush. The Rush is a good felling one gets with and after a burst of adrenaline associated with an exciting experience, like PvP combat. Not everyone gets The Rush. Some get no pleasure from adrenaline, and some actually feel bad or sick from it. According to Dr. Drew Pinsky, the difference between these people is genetic. You are born to get The Rush, or you are not. The result is some players will not enjoy PvP and actively seek to avoid it, and no amount of game tweaking will change that, because game tweaking will not change their genes. After all this is a game, people will tend to avoid game activities that make them sick. Instead they do cooperative activities, industry, missions and the like, or just play as solo players. People who do not get The Rush can also enjoy activities like fishing, a sport that is more popular that any computer game, even WoW. Or puzzle games, or solitaire, or Golf (one of the most popular pastimes on the planet). These players like an activity that occupies the mind, is relaxing, and gives one a gentle feeling of accomplishment as they watch the isk pile up. For them, a certain amount of repetition is not boring, its reassuring and relaxing. A much better thing to do with carebears is find a way that they can play their game in peace so they can provide a steady stream of income to CCP, allowing CCP to improve the game.
This is one of the most well thought out posts I have read on this train wreck of a forum. I agree with you entirely. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
657
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:16:00 -
[179] - Quote
The difference between a high sec PvP flag and just going to low sec:
No interference from gate guns. No capitals.
Edit: Part of the new crimewatch system is a dueling system. This would be a PvP flag to just one other person. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Damien Valdes
Romex Inc. Dustm3n
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:24:00 -
[180] - Quote
Maybe if you're bothered by how someone else plays a game they are paying for, EVE is not for you.
|
|
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1050
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:26:00 -
[181] - Quote
Damien Valdes wrote:Maybe if you're bothered by how someone else plays a game they are paying for, EVE is not for you. Well I'd like to play this game by being handed out free titans in place of noob ships at every single station I dock in.
Problem with that? Eve isn't for you.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Damien Valdes
Romex Inc. Dustm3n
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:30:00 -
[182] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Well I'd like to play this game by being handed out free titans in place of noob ships at every single station I dock in.
Problem with that? Eve isn't for you.
Hmm. But EVE isn't like that. If it were, then it wouldn't be for me. Nice appeal to the absurd, however.
The game works, and works for many different types of players. CCP makes money (guess what, that's why they do this). If they catered exclusively to either side, they would make much less money. Much less money = not as much development, eventually = no more game.
|
Bluddwolf
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 19:57:00 -
[183] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Zyress wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Bluddwolf wrote:I also wish CCP would intorduce a PVP flagging system. This way, if you wanted to PVP wherever you are, you could just flag yourself for PVP. Thanks for ruining my game. I don't see how that would ruin anything if you can flag yourself as a concord free target in Highsec, should make more ships go boom and isn't that the main goal? Of course it would lessen the need for the Pvp starved to leave highsec which I know peeves the losec, nullsec crowd. Because the main goal of all those seeking pvp is to have their own ships destroyed, am I right?
I'm guessing that you are trying to be coy, but your objection has still not been made clear.
Do you want to have more PVP or less PVP?
Or is it that you want to have PVP vs. players who don't want to have PVP?
Or are you objecting because you do not want to have PVP at all, and don't want the stigma of not flagging yourself for it, while others do?
I'm still not getting how a flag system would ruin your game? Lets see if you can answer that without dancing around it. To join Heimatar Military Industries-á visit website or conatct Bluddwolf in-gamewww.hmi.guildlaunch.com |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 :: [one page] |