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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.30 15:10:00 -
[1]
First I'm going to tell you what I want to do, then I'm going to tell you why I can't do it, and then I'm going to tell you what kind of help I need to make it happen.
I want to launch an IPO based on an insurance model that myself and Sencnes have been working on for a while now. The model has been designed for profitability and it has been tested and it works. I've even started a website: http://www.eve-insurance.net/
Now, here's why I can't do it. I don't have the time. Despite how excited I am to develop and deliver a new business model to EVE, my obligations to EBANK consume what little time I have. I don't anticipate my EBANK committments easing for another 4 to 6 months.
Here's what I need to make this happen. I'm using the same technology (ASP.NET/C#/SQL Server) that I used to write the first version of EBANK's software, while including some design lessons I've learned from working with EBANK. I need a strong .NET developer with the time and willingness to work with me on the development, testing, deployment, and possibly the sustainment of the software required to make a successful business.
What can I offer? It's no secret that my personal wealth has pretty much evaporated, but you'd be getting to work with me and in exchange I'd do my best teach and involve you with the business and if when we launch....stock options. While I'd retain 51% of any IPO stock issue, I'd reserve a portion of the 49% on sale to the public to you. You could immiediately turn around and sell it for cold hard cash or keep it. It's up to you.
Please reply here or contact me directly. Ask around in the "ebank" channel in-game for my email address and how to reach me via MSN. I'm often not logged in due to time constraints so don't expect a fast evemail reply, out of game contact methods work best.
p.s. Our EBANK Dev team is very busy and I don't want to distract them, hence this public call for development help.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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StationSpinner
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Posted - 2009.06.30 15:25:00 -
[2]
Edited by: StationSpinner on 30/06/2009 15:25:39 Sounds like a bit of a scam tbh
Quote:
It's no secret that my personal wealth has pretty much evaporated
To me, that's a little teeny reg flag
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.30 15:38:00 -
[3]
Originally by: StationSpinner Edited by: StationSpinner on 30/06/2009 15:25:39 Sounds like a bit of a scam tbh
Quote:
It's no secret that my personal wealth has pretty much evaporated
To me, that's a little teeny reg flag
I'm not asking for money. If I don't get a developer to assist, I'll do it myself.
Reading comprehension is important.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Conwakleferibok
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Posted - 2009.06.30 16:00:00 -
[4]
Red flag? I laughed =).
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2009.06.30 16:03:00 -
[5]
If I could program I'd be more than willing to help, but the level you're looking for is likely beyond my skillset |
Dzil
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.06.30 16:14:00 -
[6]
I'd honestly put Hexxx on the level with Chribba in terms of likelihood to scam. The greater risk would be in the business not being as profitable as predicted. ---------------------- Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m for 7+ standings ---------------------- |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.30 16:23:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dzil I'd honestly put Hexxx on the level with Chribba in terms of likelihood to scam. The greater risk would be in the business not being as profitable as predicted.
If I get the website fully operational but larger scale testing yields no profitable business model...I will not launch an IPO. If it doesn't work on a small scale, it won't work on the large scale. I've got alot of faith in it; but the proof is in the numbers.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Saehta
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Novus Ordo Mundi
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Posted - 2009.06.30 16:50:00 -
[8]
So this is for insuring.. T2 ships?
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.30 16:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Saehta So this is for insuring.. T2 ships?
The full details of the business plan will be disclosed when the business opens to the public and/or I launch an IPO for it.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.30 17:39:00 -
[10]
Hi Hexxx,,,, i contacted ebank about a year ago, about something i called ESURANCE. or Eve Insurance... (i talked to ricdic about this very briefly and he said you wherent interested. anyways, if i can help in any way, i got a bit on paper about this aswell. i cant code for ****, but normal administrative work i can help with. perhaps manage customer support for you or something, have RL experience there aswell. anyways, as im already attached to the idea, i would very much like to help out.
TMPI |
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.30 17:46:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ji Sama Hi Hexxx,,,, i contacted ebank about a year ago, about something i called ESURANCE. or Eve Insurance... (i talked to ricdic about this very briefly and he said you wherent interested. anyways, if i can help in any way, i got a bit on paper about this aswell. i cant code for ****, but normal administrative work i can help with. perhaps manage customer support for you or something, have RL experience there aswell. anyways, as im already attached to the idea, i would very much like to help out.
Once we get something actually working from a technical and financial point of view, we'll need to expand the team. Right now the focus is just on some bare minimum technical development to help test the models a bit better. This thing is still months away from expanding, but when it does it'll need a team behind it.
Still, get in touch with me on MSN and we can chat about it.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.30 17:50:00 -
[12]
will to..
TMPI |
Arous Drephius
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Posted - 2009.06.30 19:08:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Arous Drephius on 30/06/2009 19:09:12 Why .NET?
I (or rather, my main) would be happy to assist if it was PHP :(
EDIT: Your XHTML is not valid.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.30 19:52:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Arous Drephius Edited by: Arous Drephius on 30/06/2009 19:09:12 Why .NET?
I (or rather, my main) would be happy to assist if it was PHP :(
EDIT: Your XHTML is not valid.
My XHTML does what it wants to do.
In seriousness, it's in development, and I'm not concerned how XHTML compatible it is at the moment. I use .NET because it's a better tool for developing; I've used ColdFusion, JSP, PHP, and .NET (vb and C#) and out of all of them I've found C# .NET and SQL Server are the best combination. In my opinion.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Damian LeRoi
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Posted - 2009.06.30 20:35:00 -
[15]
Nobody here knows me from a block of wood or bar of soap. Never-the-less, I'm interested, how do I make contact?
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Chris15
RennTech Sylph Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.30 21:44:00 -
[16]
This seems a very interesting concept ... I am not a programming genious in any shape, way or form. In fact I work for an Insurance Brokers company in the UK and am more intrigued in the idea of offering Insurance to the pilots of EVE other than the NPC insurance.
Would be interested in contributing in any way other than obviously programming and such. Very excited to see how this will pan out when it reaches IPO stage.
Good luck!
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Doctor Keresh
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Posted - 2009.06.30 23:14:00 -
[17]
Hexxx: I am a c# .Net developer and would be interested in talking with you in-game about this concept. I am not sure what level of commitment I can offer, but let's talk.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.30 23:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Doctor Keresh Hexxx: I am a c# .Net developer and would be interested in talking with you in-game about this concept. I am not sure what level of commitment I can offer, but let's talk.
I have some interested parties already; I would say it would be a commitment of several months of collaboration. Best way to reach me is out of game, but I'll try and connect with you in-game if possible.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Czanthria
Caldari Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
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Posted - 2009.07.01 08:39:00 -
[19]
I might be interested. I tried asking in the ebank channel and didn't get a response. -- Knowledge is Power! |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.07.01 08:56:00 -
[20]
Quote:
I want to launch an IPO based on an insurance model that myself and Sencnes have been working on for a while now. The model has been designed for profitability and it has been tested and it works
Heh the fun part is that it is exactly one of the 3 ideas I had the day I brainstormed my "path" on EvE finance / marketing.
Though I crossed it out, because I could not figure out a way for people not to arrange pre-made ganks to cash in the insurance.
Example: guy buys T2 cruiser sized or above ship below production value, buys (or makes) cheap T2 modules then arranges a gank and then asks for commercial value of all of the above, reaping from 40M (Arazu) onwards per doctored gank.
The API would never show anything odd in the kill.
Quote:
I use .NET because it's a better tool for developing; I've used ColdFusion, JSP, PHP, and .NET (vb and C#) and out of all of them I've found C# .NET and SQL Server are the best combination. In my opinion.
CFM is pretty good, PHP is very good, JSP is more fat name than true substance (and stupidly hard to interface with heterogeneous languages at class level). Dot Net is not bad but I would not use MSSQL server for agile small site programming.
- Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.01 10:31:00 -
[21]
thats really interesting VV.
im setting up a google doc, will mail you the link after DT...
TMPI |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.07.01 10:37:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
CFM is pretty good, PHP is very good, JSP is more fat name than true substance (and stupidly hard to interface with heterogeneous languages at class level). Dot Net is not bad but I would not use MSSQL server for agile small site programming.
Isn't Coldfusion dead?
PHP is a bastard language, but works if you can put up with a lot of ugly stuff.
And do people use JSP?
.NET is great. MSSQL is a nice platform, and much more stable for scenarios like EBANK than MYSQL. Managing both MSSQL and MYSQL servers myself, and having experienced hosted MSSQL and MYSQL server, I'd pick mssql any day if you use ASP.NET. For all other scenarios, Mysql is more widely supported.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.07.01 11:21:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Though I crossed it out, because I could not figure out a way for people not to arrange pre-made ganks to cash in the insurance.
Example: guy buys T2 cruiser sized or above ship below production value, buys (or makes) cheap T2 modules then arranges a gank and then asks for commercial value of all of the above, reaping from 40M (Arazu) onwards per doctored gank.
The API would never show anything odd in the kill.
Oh, insurance should function as a way to pay out the entire value of the ship?
I always thought of it as a hedge against loss.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Hel O'Ween
Academy of Truth
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Posted - 2009.07.01 11:47:00 -
[24]
Bah, some day I'll find the time to really get into this .NET thing and be able to participate with such projects.
Other than that: from the first glance, it sounds like an interesting idea. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.07.01 13:20:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Isn't Coldfusion dead?
Besides my statement talked just about "good", not about the product status, I point to this
http://www.adobe.com/it/products/coldfusion/
where as of today morning you may still purchase the product, hence economically speaking it's alive and kicking.
Furthermore, support for .NET and Ajax would indicate that technologically speaking it's alive and kicking.
Quote:
PHP is a bastard language, but works if you can put up with a lot of ugly stuff
Bastards tend to be cunning, quick, smart and widespread. And to adapt to the everchanging reality. PERL and PHP are two staples of the WEB, exactly like butt-ugly Visual Basic has been a staple in general business applications (the logical successor of COBOL).
OOP PHP is not the industry reference for programming elegance but gets the job done and in a way a C / C++ / Java / C# programmer can understand at first sight.
Quote:
And do people use JSP?
(Sadly) they do. I had to fix national wide WEB sites made around a JSP engine (Tomcat and Resin). Banks use it due to JSP being available with commercial quality support and because it's relatively easy and certifiable to form the professional personnel able to program software with that stuff. Brokers use it due to the legacy of it being used by banks.
Quote:
.NET is great. MSSQL is a nice platform, and much more stable for scenarios like EBANK than MYSQL. Managing both MSSQL and MYSQL servers myself, and having experienced hosted MSSQL and MYSQL server, I'd pick mssql any day if you use ASP.NET. For all other scenarios, Mysql is more widely supported
MySQL is nice because it's free and has fast read operations. Less good for concurrent writing. Not well supported at industry+ grade applications.
MSSQL has its uses, I'd reckon the economically affordable versions are good for small-ish enterprises. It breaks under true usage though. Think CCP is one of the most intensive MSSQL usage clients and as shown yesterday sometimes it goes wonkers.
I used Informix (yes that old dinosaur) where passing from 2 to 20,000 concurrent users on a Pentium I equivalent Sun Server with 512M RAM would not even flinch. 1 day of downtime a year as well, and just to apply patches (the company was military they could not afford to stop).
I also used PostresSQL which is still running after 6 years of no downtime for my former workplace clients. I'd prefer it over MSSQL for many reasons. Plus it's related with Informix and Ingres.
Finally I would not certify MSSQL for real time, life critical applications, something I was forced to do (and it sucks because, guess what, YOU are responsible for deaths) in FirebirdSQL 2.1.
MSSQL and EBank is indeed a good choice over MySQL, expecially if there are multiple write transactions going at any given time.
Quote:
Oh, insurance should function as a way to pay out the entire value of the ship?
I always thought of it as a hedge against loss.
Well, hedging is a sort of insurance and I also considered that as a possible EvE venture (2nd idea of 3) and have not discarded yet. Now, maybe operating off the seemingly endless EVEBANK funds makes it a lot easy. I still see difficulties doing it as someone else.
With hedging AFAIK you technically trade security on a long term fund with the risk on a short time operation. This poses a series of challenges in a game without facilities to forcibly insure someone pays when luck looks away. Plus, EvE's rewards and percentages are generously out of any RL equivalent.
- Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.07.01 13:20:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 01/07/2009 13:24:04 IE risk to lose a car is small and the inconvenience of being without the car is a great reason not to crash it. In EvE you can lose 1 ship a day (if not more). Interests IRL are measured in single digits a year, while in EvE they might be double digits *a month*. This would affect the hedge risk/cost calculation formula and make it too high to still have people use it.
Anyway, to return to insurance. Let's assume you want to sell a contract covering for 70% of a T2 ship + fitting cost.
You can demand: instant full front insurance fee payment; front payment split in rates, over time payment split in rates (what is done IRL in my country).
What happens next? Following the current implemented insurance, the client would have to buy the ship + fitting (example: 250M) immediately plus give you ie 30% of 250M for you to keep for an undetermined long future in exchange for you paying back ie 70% in case of incident.
At this point, imagine a top customer with 100 dreads insuring them and losing them a la BoB vs Goons style (just to make two names, the examples are plenty). You are going to have to honor your side of the hedge "default" on a big multi-billionaire loss per single fight. How much can you withstand getting 100B and lose 130B shortly after? Because they are NOT going to insure the super-safe ships of course, exactly like they don't do it right now even with T0 expensive ships. They are going to insure what they realistically expect to lose
Hence, your model MUST work in an hostile financial environment assuming a 100% rate of credit refund. At this point, it becomes less and less attractive on your insurer side to sell such a contract.
And, even worse, if they don't want to front pay for 70% of their T2 250M fully fitted ship because it really looks like having to buy two things (and people don't like to wait to accrue double of what they can get today)? What are you going to do if their ship pops in the middle of the payments? In a IRL self-car insurance with i.e. bi-yearly payments you are due to pay them the car NOW and the customer is bound to keep paying the rates. What "fool" will have their ship blown, then refunded and will keep paying the next rates? They'll just take the one shot opportunity to be repaid of a ship then quit you in the face withou paying the next rates.
Finally - and I recognize EBANK might have no problems but everyone else WILL do have a VERY hard time getting hundreds of millions in their pockets for a promise to be refunded. What guarantees the insurance company is not alike to an "I'll double what you send me" scam?
BTW with the current all low EvE banks credibility you also do: plenty of corp mates refrained from giving any EvE bank their money any more after the recent facts.
Basically, even before talking about the technological WEB aspect of a site, is here rock solid financialy analysis of feasibility of this heavy investment plan?
- Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.07.01 13:26:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 01/07/2009 13:24:04 IE risk to lose a car is small and the inconvenience of being without the car is a great reason not to crash it. In EvE you can lose 1 ship a day (if not more). Interests IRL are measured in single digits a year, while in EvE they might be double digits *a month*. This would affect the hedge risk/cost calculation formula and make it too high to still have people use it.
Anyway, to return to insurance. Let's assume you want to sell a contract covering for 70% of a T2 ship + fitting cost.
You can demand: instant full front insurance fee payment; front payment split in rates, over time payment split in rates (what is done IRL in my country).
What happens next? Following the current implemented insurance, the client would have to buy the ship + fitting (example: 250M) immediately plus give you ie 30% of 250M for you to keep for an undetermined long future in exchange for you paying back ie 70% in case of incident.
At this point, imagine a top customer with 100 dreads insuring them and losing them a la BoB vs Goons style (just to make two names, the examples are plenty). You are going to have to honor your side of the hedge "default" on a big multi-billionaire loss per single fight. How much can you withstand getting 100B and lose 130B shortly after? Because they are NOT going to insure the super-safe ships of course, exactly like they don't do it right now even with T0 expensive ships. They are going to insure what they realistically expect to lose
Hence, your model MUST work in an hostile financial environment assuming a 100% rate of credit refund. At this point, it becomes less and less attractive on your insurer side to sell such a contract.
And, even worse, if they don't want to front pay for 70% of their T2 250M fully fitted ship because it really looks like having to buy two things (and people don't like to wait to accrue double of what they can get today)? What are you going to do if their ship pops in the middle of the payments? In a IRL self-car insurance with i.e. bi-yearly payments you are due to pay them the car NOW and the customer is bound to keep paying the rates. What "fool" will have their ship blown, then refunded and will keep paying the next rates? They'll just take the one shot opportunity to be repaid of a ship then quit you in the face withou paying the next rates.
Finally - and I recognize EBANK might have no problems but everyone else WILL do have a VERY hard time getting hundreds of millions in their pockets for a promise to be refunded. What guarantees the insurance company is not alike to an "I'll double what you send me" scam?
BTW with the current all low EvE banks credibility you also do: plenty of corp mates refrained from giving any EvE bank their money any more after the recent facts.
Basically, even before talking about the technological WEB aspect of a site, is here rock solid financialy analysis of feasibility of this heavy investment plan?
Why would I sell an insurance policy for a Dread? Better yet; why would I sell an insurance policy for any combat ship?
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
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Posted - 2009.07.01 13:33:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Why would I sell an insurance policy for a Dread? Better yet; why would I sell an insurance policy for any combat ship?
Why would anyone buy an insurance policy for a ship he expects to survive beyond the insurance expiration date?
Moreover
Are you going to insure an Hulk, with the current high sec gank spree? Or a Jump Freigther that with a little bumping or a misplaced cyno is going to be easily popped?
Are you then going to only accept high sec freigthers and also impose a ceiling on the transported cargo value (else they are 100% ganked and you lose)? Who will buy such insurance then? Because the freighter pilots know that if they are not morons with the amounts they carry, they are safe like crazy.
Will you refund for a guy who set his freigther in autopilot and unfortunately he entered in enemy faction (low standings / factional warfare) territory? Or even worse, the badly setup autopilot drove him in low sec?
How do you check he did everything in his power not to die and did not use autopilot?
- Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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The ChurchWarden
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Posted - 2009.07.01 13:33:00 -
[29]
T2 insurance is very feasible. I would also suspect Hexxx has a model that he believes is solid before bothering to ask people for coding.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.07.01 13:41:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Why would I sell an insurance policy for a Dread? Better yet; why would I sell an insurance policy for any combat ship?
Why would anyone buy an insurance policy for a ship he expects to survive beyond the insurance expiration date?
Moreover
Are you going to insure an Hulk, with the current high sec gank spree? Or a Jump Freigther that with a little bumping or a misplaced cyno is going to be easily popped?
Are you then going to only accept high sec freigthers and also impose a ceiling on the transported cargo value (else they are 100% ganked and you lose)? Who will buy such insurance then? Because the freighter pilots know that if they are not morons with the amounts they carry, they are safe like crazy.
Will you refund for a guy who set his freigther in autopilot and unfortunately he entered in enemy faction (low standings / factional warfare) territory? Or even worse, the badly setup autopilot drove him in low sec?
How do you check he did everything in his power not to die and did not use autopilot?
There is a difference between perceived risk and actual risk.
For a real world example;
In the US, a child is statistically much more likely to be killed by a swimming pool in the backyard than a gun stored in a closet. Despite this; people believe that guns in the home are more risky than swimming pools based on public polling.
Taking us back to EVE; you believe the risk is much higher than I believe it is. This means you'll likely believe that the premiums I plan to charge are a "bargain" given the risk you perceive the ships to be subject to.
And remember, a loss is a loss....what I plan to do will not pay out enough to "replace" the ship. There will be a loss. Insurance is a hedge against loss as I've stated previously.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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