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Storm Templar
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.04 06:55:00 -
[1]
Do they live up to their reputation as mad PvE ships? I'm currently flying a CNR, running LV4 missions with stable capacitor while X-Large shield booster running, tanking on whole room if necessary. To fly a Golem, I'll have to wait for 82 days according to EVEmon. I was wondering if it's worth it to train all those skill for a ship that is 1b+.
So in your opinion, do you think it's worth it or do you reckon I should just fly my CNR with this fitting. Albeit that ship cost more while mine cost 50-80% less. http://www.battleclinic.com/forum/index.php/topic,23888.0/Raven-Navy-Issue-Semi-Expensive-PvE-Fit.html
That is the exact same fitting I'm flying right now, aside from the Invul fields being replaced with specific hardeners and the DCII is replace by Power Plant Manager II (the thing that offers capacitor, shield, power grid output, shield recharge bonus).
So what do you think? Caldari ships are made for running missions or should I get enough money back and buy me a nice Navy Apoc that'll supplement my cap stable Abaddon. My time as a mission/mining grinder got me a great deal amount of money, now I'm down to 92M.
Any help are greatly appreciated. Stormie ________________________________________________ For the Immortal God-Emperor.....ooops, wrong universe. |
ZW Dewitt
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Posted - 2009.07.04 07:04:00 -
[2]
If you switch to torps yes, it would be worthwhile. If you stick to cruise probably not. CNR/Golem is a bit of a special case compared to the rest due to the extra launcher of the CNR giving it a DPS advantage, however its harder to run a decent torp CNR than it is a torp Golem so the Golem can compensate that way.
In general though Marauders main advantage is in the tractor beam bonus and cargo hold, allowing you to loot most of the wrecks while you kill. It may not seem huge, but the loot will get you a few mill extra each mission in approx. the same amount of time it would have taken you to run it in a comparable faction ship. They generally have an easier time fitting wise as well.
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VanNostrum
The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.07.04 07:11:00 -
[3]
Originally by: ZW Dewitt In general though Marauders main advantage is in the tractor beam bonus and cargo hold, allowing you to loot most of the wrecks while you kill. It may not seem huge, but the loot will get you a few mill extra each mission in approx. the same amount of time it would have taken you to run it in a comparable faction ship. They generally have an easier time fitting wise as well.
Plus marauders use half the ammo
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Storm Templar
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.04 07:17:00 -
[4]
Torps? What's the difference aside from the damage, that is obvious enough?
I looked at the specs and the base stats say that the Cruise outrange the Torps with a faster velocity and longer flight time. One other thing is I don't want rat BS to fall under the 50km range where they can hit me with their turrets so most of my engagements take place at around 60-70km+. Will the good outweights the bad or did I just answered my own question?
Oh must not forget, is it worth it to put some time into module reprocessing? I used to run missions with a great bloke who take all the modules, reprocess them, sell the materials and give me a share. We together made a huge sum of ISK. ________________________________________________ For the Immortal God-Emperor.....ooops, wrong universe. |
Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.07.04 12:30:00 -
[5]
If you run a torp ship, you're going to have to tank. Fortunately with a torp golem you won't have to tank THAT much. First, the ship has a built in 7.5% bonus per level to shield boosting (like having a free boost amp). Second, the damage output of a torp golem means that ships won't be shooting at you for very long.
As to looking into reprocessing, I'd say yes. If you're going to loot, learn to melt down the worthless stuff (the vast majority of the loot). Personally, since I built this character as a miner/industrialist and have trained into combat, I have Refining V and Refinery Efficiency III. I get 96.2% yield on refining mission loot, assuming I use a station that has 50% base equipment. It shouldn't take that long to get enough skill to get an acceptable yield. Getting 100% is problematic; you need Refining V, Refinery Efficiency V, Metallurgy V, and Scrapmetal Processing at I+ to get 100%. With just Refining and Refinery Efficiency at V you get 99.2% or so. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
FT Diomedes
Gallente Factio Paucorum
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Posted - 2009.07.04 12:41:00 -
[6]
Edited by: FT Diomedes on 04/07/2009 12:40:55
Originally by: Storm Templar Do they live up to their reputation as mad PvE ships? I'm currently flying a CNR, running LV4 missions with stable capacitor while X-Large shield booster running, tanking on whole room if necessary. To fly a Golem, I'll have to wait for 82 days according to EVEmon. I was wondering if it's worth it to train all those skill for a ship that is 1b+.
So in your opinion, do you think it's worth it or do you reckon I should just fly my CNR with this fitting. Albeit that ship cost more while mine cost 50-80% less. http://www.battleclinic.com/forum/index.php/topic,23888.0/Raven-Navy-Issue-Semi-Expensive-PvE-Fit.html
That is the exact same fitting I'm flying right now, aside from the Invul fields being replaced with specific hardeners and the DCII is replace by Power Plant Manager II (the thing that offers capacitor, shield, power grid output, shield recharge bonus).
So what do you think? Caldari ships are made for running missions or should I get enough money back and buy me a nice Navy Apoc that'll supplement my cap stable Abaddon. My time as a mission/mining grinder got me a great deal amount of money, now I'm down to 92M.
Any help are greatly appreciated. Stormie
I love how a ship with a 2 billion ISK booster is only "semi-expensive." Train for the Golem.
...this doesn't even seem to be a regular case of rats fleeing the sinking ship. Seems more like the rats are on fire, the ship is on fire, and the sea is full of drunk Russians. - Jacob Etienne |
Zeerover
DeadSpace Exploration and Investigations
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Posted - 2009.07.04 13:29:00 -
[7]
I'm more wondering how you can have 82 days to Golem while flying a CNR.
Most of those 82 days are skills you need in any case, even if you'll never fly a marauder.
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Chomapuraku
Caldari Templar Republic
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Posted - 2009.07.04 13:51:00 -
[8]
marauders are the undisputed kings of PVE. the isk/hr they return is unmatched.
the only situation in which i MIGHT pick a CNR over a golem is for blitzing L4s for standings, and even then, i'm not sure the CNR runs em faster without getting blown up.
sure, a torp-fit CNR does a bit more DPS than a torp golem, but even with all lvl 5 skills, fitting the damn thing is a nightmare, and you have to fly it practically without a tank (BCS in lows + T2 torp launchers in highs + 2x range rigs = using that last low on a faction cpu and not having enough PG, cpu, or cap for a tank)
Originally by: Misanth Being nice doesn't pay off, you should stop listening to the right shoulder parrot. The left one is usually right.
so she shouldnt listen to the left one either? |
Love Denied
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.07.05 01:39:00 -
[9]
weapon upgrades 5 advanced weapon upgrades 5 target painting 4 secondery painter skill 4 ( cant recall name ) targeting 5 multitasking 3 marauder 4 battleship 5 missile projection 5 missile bombardment 5 torps 5 torp spec 4
cybernetic 5 for those 5% hardwirings esp. 5% missile speed or range is nice
alot of thise are not required to fly your average decent CNR so alot of training can easily go into the golem before it really starts to shine
but by the time this skills or better are in place its really a mission muncher Caldari Loyalist
people die when love is denied |
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.07.05 11:14:00 -
[10]
In my opinion CNR and Golem are more or less equal nowdays as far as missionrunning effectivity goes. If you really want to 'permatank' then Golem should work better for you - in theory - I don't know in practice as I myself do not do permatanks.
Before the missile damage equation change CNR was slightly better. After the change Golem's painter bonus roughly bumps it up enough to be on the same level as CNR with it's ~16% better base dps.
As far as other marauders go they can give the Golem/CNR run for their money when fighting rats that have weakness against the damage types they are doing. Ie Paladin against drones/blood/sansha and Kronos against serpentis/gurista. From your post however I assume you are not talking about other marauders but more specifically about CNR / Golem.
After you max your caldary skills kind of "natural" way of going for missionrunner is nowdays Nightmare. It's approx half year trip to get there from max caldary skills (T2 tahyions, amarr BS, good gunnery support skills).
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Misanth
Reaper Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.05 11:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Storm Templar Do they live up to their reputation as mad PvE ships?
Yes. - I'd tell you why but then I'll have to kill you. And to kill you I'd have to log in. And to log in I'd have to stop browsing these forums. Both you and me knows that'll never happen. |
Marcus Gord
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.05 11:43:00 -
[12]
a friend of mine runs L4 missions in a cruise CNR and sometimes needs help because he can't tank the incoming damage, although when I say sometimes, it doesn't happen often.
Stick with the CNR I'd say, although marauders ARE meant to be the mission running ships, it's mostly with the role bonuses they have.
===== Truth. Respect. Honour. |
Noemi Nagano
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Posted - 2009.07.05 12:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Carniflex
As far as other marauders go they can give the Golem/CNR run for their money when fighting rats that have weakness against the damage types they are doing. Ie Paladin against drones/blood/sansha and Kronos against serpentis/gurista. From your post however I assume you are not talking about other marauders but more specifically about CNR / Golem.
While I agree with most other things you said and also the rating of the Paladin to be probably the most efficient Sansha/Drone/BloodRaider killer, unlike you said the Kronos will not be a match for a well-skilled Torp-Golem against Guristas/Serpentis/EoM. It will neither have the same DPS on range, nor be able to apply its damage on targets like a state-of-the-art fitted Torp Golem.
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.07.05 12:25:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Zeerover I'm more wondering how you can have 82 days to Golem while flying a CNR.
Most of those 82 days are skills you need in any case, even if you'll never fly a marauder.
Heh. 150 days for me. Here's the breakdown currently:
4d 7h getting Spacial Awareness V 2d 18h getting Clarity IV 40d 3h getting Caldari Battleship V 8d 5h for Energy Grid Upgrades V 9d 8h for Weapon Upgrades V 49d 13h getting Advanced Weapon Upgrades I-V 5d for Spaceship Command V 11d 18h for Marauders I-IV 26d 4h for Torpedoes V (only at II now) 8d 14h for Torpedo Specialization I-IV
Now, you're right, the two weapon upgrade skills are both things I plan on training anyway, same with Spacial Awareness V and Clarity IV, but that's what it would take right now for me, if I don't do a neural remap (heavy Int/Mem at the moment). Remapping to Per/Will would shave 34d off this list.
______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Storm Templar
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.08 12:36:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Storm Templar on 08/07/2009 12:37:01 Here is what I gotta do. Caldari BS IV & V Energy Grid Upgrades V Weapon Upgrades V Advanced Weapon Upgrades I-V Spaceship command V Marauders I As a former Amarrian pilot (still am with my skills), I can fly the Nightmare but I heard it was crap cause it combines shield boosting and laser on a ship with little ****ty capacitor reservoir.
Oh, I have Cybernetics V and a full set of +5 implants with many hardwirings. After I'm finish training for my T2 drones and fly 'em, in <20h. I'll start training for the Golem right away?
P.S. my whole EVE career's ISK is on the Raven with it's faction booster, the one that takes <200 energy and give up 525 shield. That with 2 T2 shield boosters, it give me nearly 1k of shield every 4 seconds. Had to sell nearly all my ships and spare implant for that one module.
Thank you Stormieeeeee ________________________________________________ For the Immortal God-Emperor.....ooops, wrong universe. |
Epidemis
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Posted - 2009.07.08 12:49:00 -
[16]
Yes, If nothing else because you get to do alot of looting and salvaging while waiting for ships to go down.
My experience was 6 months ago but it was by far the most enjoyable PvE ship I have tried.
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Enden Assulu
Caldari Blood Money Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.08 12:49:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Storm Templar
Caldari BS IV & V Weapon Upgrades V Advanced Weapon Upgrades I-V
WHAT! Battleship IV *facepalm*
Click the image! |
Saraphos
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Posted - 2009.07.08 16:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Storm Templar
Caldari BS IV & V
4? Really?
Originally by: Storm Templar
As a former Amarrian pilot (still am with my skills), I can fly the Nightmare but I heard it was crap cause it combines shield boosting and laser on a ship with little ****ty capacitor reservoir.
You heard wrong, if you need to pulse your shield booster more than 3-4 times in a mission while flying a nightmare, you are doing it wrong.
Originally by: Storm Templar
Oh, I have Cybernetics V and a full set of +5 implants with many hardwirings. After I'm finish training for my T2 drones and fly 'em, in <20h. I'll start training for the Golem right away?
Slow down, training BS to 5 is always a good idea, but you really should see what other basic areas you are lacking in before committing to training for a marauder. True most of the prereqs are nice to have anyway, but if you are JUST about to hit t2 drones what else are you missing that might be even more important...
Originally by: Storm Templar
P.S. my whole EVE career's ISK is on the Raven with it's faction booster, the one that takes <200 energy and give up 525 shield. That with 2 T2 shield boosters, it give me nearly 1k of shield every 4 seconds. Had to sell nearly all my ships and spare implant for that one module.
I would hide that booster away in a nice hangar and buy a t2 or CN XL/L shield booster, learn to manage agro and pulse as needed.
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Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.07.08 16:29:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Storm Templar I can fly the Nightmare but I heard it was crap
WAT Get out.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
Khandara Seraphim
StarHunt Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.07.08 19:10:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Storm Templar I can fly the Nightmare but I heard it was crap cause it combines shield boosting and laser on a ship with little ****ty capacitor reservoir.
Just so you know the Nightmare is arguably the best BS in the entire game ___________
Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more. |
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.07.08 19:46:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton on 08/07/2009 19:46:42 lol that is a terrible cnr fit.
sell the booster alone on it and buy this whole ship which will complete missions faster, if you must make it cap stable drop one of the t1 rigors for a t1 ccc. I would use the empty highslot for a tractorbeam, but I guess you could use a gun there.
[Raven Navy Issue, CNR] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Capacitor Flux Coil II
Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile [empty high slot]
Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
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Storm Templar
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.09 05:52:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Storm Templar on 09/07/2009 05:52:59
Originally by: Khandara Seraphim
Originally by: Storm Templar I can fly the Nightmare but I heard it was crap cause it combines shield boosting and laser on a ship with little ****ty capacitor reservoir.
Just so you know the Nightmare is arguably the best BS in the entire game
How so?
Saraphos: Thing is I don't know what else to train, good idea to follow the certificates requirements? ________________________________________________ For the Immortal God-Emperor.....ooops, wrong universe. |
Sja Vandr
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Posted - 2009.07.09 06:17:00 -
[23]
Quote: lol that is a terrible cnr fit.
sell the booster alone on it and buy this whole ship which will complete missions faster, if you must make it cap stable drop one of the t1 rigors for a t1 ccc. I would use the empty highslot for a tractorbeam, but I guess you could use a gun there.
[Raven Navy Issue, CNR] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Capacitor Flux Coil II
Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile [empty high slot]
Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Why a Capacitor Flux Coil II? - dear god man if you spend the cash on 4 CN BCS's at least get a TS CPR or at least a beta reactor control: capacitor power relay
Also I have some questions: - I keep wondering why people go for CN launchers instead of T2? Is it just because of the lower skill req's? - 2x Pithi B-types is less tank and less cap stable then 1x pithum a-type (or even b or c-type) and a cap recharger, is the price difference so big? - because of stacking is it not better to swap 1 rigor for a flare rig?
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LONGRELL
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Posted - 2009.07.09 10:06:00 -
[24]
Why a Capacitor Flux Coil II? - dear god man if you spend the cash on 4 CN BCS's at least get a TS CPR or at least a beta reactor control: capacitor power relay
Also I have some questions: - I keep wondering why people go for CN launchers instead of T2? Is it just because of the lower skill req's? - 2x Pithi B-types is less tank and less cap stable then 1x pithum a-type (or even b or c-type) and a cap recharger, is the price difference so big? - because of stacking is it not better to swap 1 rigor for a flare rig?
why a cap flux ? you joking right cap power relay takes away your shield boost amount, doh
CN launchers have better fitting req and a higher ROF then t2, so more damage ,and they hold more missiles i personally only fit a t2 large shield booster and have 2 pwnages rigor is the sex
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Sja Vandr
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Posted - 2009.07.09 10:44:00 -
[25]
Argh I always mix up CPR's with flux coils >_< I thought you fitted a CPR II... Also T2 launchers are more dps with rage torps but I guess the ****ty exp. velocity is teh suck?
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2009.07.09 15:38:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Sja Vandr
- because of stacking is it not better to swap 1 rigor for a flare rig?
Maybe, maybe not. Missile damage is based on two formulas. Only one formula takes velocity into account, but sig size affects both formulas.
missile damage formula thread
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2009.07.09 15:42:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sja Vandr Argh I always mix up CPR's with flux coils >_< I thought you fitted a CPR II... Also T2 launchers are more dps with rage torps but I guess the ****ty exp. velocity is teh suck?
I think you're mixing up T2 Fury cruise missiles with T2 Rage torpedoes also.
Even with two TPs and the golem's TP bonus, I find Fury damage to be pretty inconsistent. I can't imagine using Fury missiles on a CNR with just one TP.
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2009.07.09 15:47:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Love Denied
cybernetic 5 for those 5% hardwirings esp. 5% missile speed or range is nice
I think only the damage and rof implants require cyber 5. The others (such as the range implants) require only cyber 3 or 4.
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Saraphos
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Posted - 2009.07.09 16:45:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Storm Templar
How so?
Saraphos: Thing is I don't know what else to train, good idea to follow the certificates requirements?
You group for tachyons 'lightly scratches' <insert random cruiser> for 2430. This is just an example, but basically when you can one shot cruisers/battle cruisers in missions, your profit/time margin increases exponentially. You are essentially flying a paladin without the cargo and tractor bonus. It is also a masterpiece in PVP if you can afford to lose one or two once in a while.
Like I previously stated, the pre reqs for marauders are useful for pretty much everything else, for now if you need something to train, get your BS skills (caldari or amarr) to 5. Alternatively work on your support skills, how are you targeting, navigation, electronics, etc skills?
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