EVE Search - Probed down but no combat probes in sight

Search EVE-Online forums for:

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Probed down but no combat probes in sight

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.07.13 22:27:00 - [241] Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri Nah, in the old days you could still use the directional scanner first to get close to your target and then drop the shortest range probe (snoop or spook, don't remember). You also only needed one probe, not the 4 probe layout needed these days, which takes some time to put together. But even with maxed skills+rigs that probe had to be in space for at LEAST 23 seconds, and probably longer. Right now you can get a directional fix on someone to within a very short distance, launch probes from way outside their scanrange, position, click "Scan" and probes warp, then scan. Get a bookmark, recall them instantly. Properly skilled and with a tiny bit of luck you can get a 100% hit on someone with the probes having been visible for 5 seconds. Killboard - Declarations of War Podcast
Drykor Minmatar Reform-Revolt	Posted - 2009.07.13 22:46:00 - [242] Haven't read the entire topic, but I don't see what the problem is. It's not like they actually catch you when they warp inside your mission, if you're aligned (and most mission boats can be aligned) you still instawarp out. You may have to postpone that mission, yeah.
Kessiaan Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2009.07.13 23:13:00 - [243] I only read the first page, but I'll chip in and say the key to missioning in relative safety in lowsec is being blue with the locals and keeping a good intel channel. I like how this works and don't want to change it. I do think it's a tad too easy to scan people. I don't think the scanning is what's broken though, rather, how much of a nuisance it is to remain vigilant (i.e. smash the button every 2 seocnds)
Boknamar Gallente The Knights Trevor The Elders Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.13 23:31:00 - [244] Originally by: Drykor Haven't read the entire topic, but I don't see what the problem is. It's not like they actually catch you when they warp inside your mission, if you're aligned (and most mission boats can be aligned) you still instawarp out. You may have to postpone that mission, yeah. That is indeed very sage advice for missions, although less applicable to mining/gas harvesting and hacking/archaeology/salvage sites.
ollobrains Aurora Nomads	Posted - 2009.07.14 04:02:00 - [245] lets keep it as is more high sec empire mission runners going pop the better
Whineroy	Posted - 2009.07.14 06:49:00 - [246] Originally by: ollobrains lets keep it as is more high sec empire mission runners going pop the better Indeed, keep it up. Make lowsec missioning extremely dangerous, so that people will avoid missioning in lowsec even more than they already do. Ensure that people have little effective chance against being probed down, force mission runners to use so many team mates that they'd make more ISK grinding missions in empire space. Just don't afterwards start whining to CCP about lack of targets in lowsec afterwards or how empire-space income needs to be nerfed (I mean, don't start whining to CCP even more than you already do). And if you really have to make such whines, please grow a pair and cut away the hypocritical crap about "gameplay balance" with such blatant whines.
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.14 16:39:00 - [247] Edited by: Exlegion on 14/07/2009 16:39:48 For anyone interested, I have written a petition-style thread under the Assembly Hall to build support to change the system to one requiring less spamming and one that is actually more effective. Please feel free to visit my petition here. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
Iece Quaan Caldari Aperture Harmonics	Posted - 2009.07.14 19:02:00 - [248] 1. Fix drones so they aren't easier to scan than battleships. 2. Either buff ECCM a bit ONLY with regard to decreasing your effective sig radius for scanning purposes; or create a 'soft-stealth' module that lowers your sig radius in the same way. Trading mission-effictiveness for increased stealth sounds fair to me. 3. Similar to above, only with existing items; fit a ship for mission running that has good sig, doesn't use sig increasing items ( MWD, shield ext ), and doesn't use drones... and saves a mid or two for permarunning ECCM. Think outside the box. 4. Make the scanner auto refresh, but don't let the player control the frequency of update. Calculate the update time by the narrowness of the scan; smaller area = faster update. ---- You really shouldn't be expected to hammer the scan button every 5 seconds. That's unrealistic. Similarly it's unrealistic to say it's balanced when someone can grief players simply by entering local and looking like a threat. On the other hand, pirates should still pose a threat in this manner and I don't favor options that make it an impossible feat to pull off. Simply put, pirates should catch people that are slipping up. However, 'slipping up' should not equal 'I didn't dock when I saw a neutral in local'. I DEFINITELY don't endorse increasing the scan processing time; I spend enough time looking at that grey bar already. =P
Spurty Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.07.14 19:23:00 - [249] Unsure if these are your ideas or someone else's as I didn't read every post in the thread. Don't take my comments to heart, I like that people are thinking! Originally by: Iece Quaan 1. Fix drones so they aren't easier to scan than battleships. Only if they have their MWDs on Originally by: Iece Quaan 2. Either buff ECCM a bit ONLY with regard to decreasing your effective sig radius for scanning purposes; or create a 'soft-stealth' module that lowers your sig radius in the same way. Trading mission-effictiveness for increased stealth sounds fair to me. Interesting and daft, wont affect drones MWD'ing about though Originally by: Iece Quaan 3. Similar to above, only with existing items; fit a ship for mission running that has good sig, doesn't use sig increasing items ( MWD, shield ext ), and doesn't use drones... and saves a mid or two for permarunning ECCM. Think outside the box. AB doesn't increase sig Originally by: Iece Quaan 4. Make the scanner auto refresh, but don't let the player control the frequency of update. Calculate the update time by the narrowness of the scan; smaller area = faster update. You know that when you update the scanner, you pull info from the server about all objects in some many AU of you right? Multiply that by everyone undocked and 'ouch' Originally by: Iece Quaan You really shouldn't be expected to hammer the scan button every 5 seconds. That's unrealistic. Similarly it's unrealistic to say it's balanced when someone can grief players simply by entering local and looking like a threat. Dock up? cloak till they leave? Go find them and pew pew them before they can do it to you? Originally by: Iece Quaan On the other hand, pirates should still pose a threat in this manner and I don't favor options that make it an impossible feat to pull off. Simply put, pirates should catch people that are slipping up. However, 'slipping up' should not equal 'I didn't dock when I saw a neutral in local'. Alas, so many ships lost for exactly that reason. CCP have a winning formula with this cold harsh environment. It rewards the pirate for their efforts. Originally by: Iece Quaan I DEFINITELY don't endorse increasing the scan processing time; I spend enough time looking at that grey bar already. =P All comes back to the old story of running in gangs with pvp people. "Hey guys, I'm going to run some missions in <insert place that you clearly don't control as you have visitors to your missions here>, wanna tag along and get some pew pew in?" If no one is interested and you just wanna run missions, the next step is back to empire some what sadly. Not my thoughts and desires, just commentary on the reality of the situation for solo mission runners in lowsec / 0.0. Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails hi cat here i was thinking earlier about corpses...
Iece Quaan Caldari Aperture Harmonics	Posted - 2009.07.14 19:43:00 - [250] Well, there needs to be some kind of middle ground struck between 'unprobable/cloaked', and 'collecting insurance payout/uncloaked'. I mean, the response is currently warp to safe/cloak or dock, both of which involve you staring at the screen waiting for the ganker to get bored. Making the prey's options more interactive in some way would be more fun. I don't operate much in lowsec for this reason; your responses to being hunted essentially amount to play denial, allowing the opponent to grief you without ever seeing you on grid. 'Refusing to play' responses are elements of bad game design.

DasNara Aethelwulf Blackwater Syndicate Raining Doom	Posted - 2009.07.14 19:59:00 - [251] Edited by: DasNara Aethelwulf on 14/07/2009 20:02:46 Edited by: DasNara Aethelwulf on 14/07/2009 20:02:39 Edited by: DasNara Aethelwulf on 14/07/2009 20:02:31 There is nothing wrong with the system as it is.... the OP asked for advice, so from a prober to a carebear i have a few sugestions - use the same rules you would for 0.0 and you'll be safe: -make a series of SS's when you get in system, if you run alot of missions in that system you'll only have to do it once -can at warp in, move away from warp in, the farther the better -you can scan if you want, wont help you -the most important rule in 0.0; nuet in system dock-up, i garentee you are 100% safe, we use it all the time, i've never lost anything -most regions have intel channels, find the one that you are in and join it, or create your own and start tell ppl about it -have a scout at the gate, if you cant you're in a bad corp -if there is no station (???) find a new agent, or put a cloak on your ship, get to your SS and cloak. -use your head -set standings on the ppl that probe you down so you know if they are in sys -dont take anything too expensive -remember, most of the rats that you will have shot at have bounties, so you at least had those before you warp'd away -you are lazy, fix that, use your head. If you were in any of the alliances that i have been in you would have been kicked if you loose your ship after this advice, you will be safe -remeber, no bubbles at gates, warp to 0 if you think your ship can get away -if you are that paranoid, put a hyperspatial on your ship to try to beat pirates to gates....and an aux better agility -prepare yourself for the failmail award on warp drive active if you dont do this! on a side note, where do you mission run, i train noobs in probing and if you are as lazy as you keep whining that you are i can use you to teach how to find ppl. most of the time, i use core probes and find missioners, dont need the combat unless there are alot of hits in system or you are ss'd...oh, if you dont put a cloak on your bs, warp every 10-30secs good luck with that high sec gig -edit for new thought- My left is in retreat, my center is giving way; situation excellent, I attack - Joffe 1916
Usagi Tsukino Miyazaki Zaibatsu APEX Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.07.14 20:23:00 - [252] As a mission runner I can feel for the OP. Even if you get away or managed to kill your attacker, you're done. You can't complete that mission unless you were done to begin with. But as someone who was a PvPer; who hunted in low sec, null sec, wormholes... I <3 the new combat probing system. Is it over powered? Depends on who you are. My alt can't probe a mission runner down in 10 seconds, but I can. If a pirate has taken the time to invest in the skills to get that 100% hit in one scan based on a directional scan guess, well then... He's earned you. He's also risking backup, as my and a corp mate from a previous corp learned first hand once. Both of us left that fight in structure. My rule when I do exploration in low sec is I always fly in a PvP fit ship. You should to. Quite frankly (puts on flame proof suit) I think mission running in low sec is stupid. The risk way out weighs the reward. Exploration on the other hand.... --- Usagi Tsukino // Miyazaki Zaibatsu
Haulerboi	Posted - 2009.07.14 20:29:00 - [253] Originally by: Exlegion I'd say having to spam your scan button every 10 seconds or less is more than just a trade-off. It's simply madness and quite unreasonable. I suspect this was a simple oversight from CCP's part. But it would be nice to get an official comment. Having to spam the scan button is nonsense, it should be set to auto refresh every 1 second or so. If somebody gives me a spaceship in real life and I have to press a damn button to scan, It would take me 5 minutes to rig an RC circuit to it so it auto presses itself every 1 second.
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.07.14 21:03:00 - [254] Originally by: Haulerboi Having to spam the scan button is nonsense, it should be set to auto refresh every 1 second or so. If somebody gives me a spaceship in real life and I have to press a damn button to scan, It would take me 5 minutes to rig an RC circuit to it so it auto presses itself every 1 second. Considering our ships have crews it'd be more of a matter of "Pres butan, reciev vitoc" solution. I'd just have a bunch of slaves hammering the scanner button as fast as they can. Heck, considering it's their butts on the line they'd even look through all the crap in the results and scream bloody murder at the first sign of hostile probes. Gameplay wise we will just have to wait and see if migration of missioners to highsec and/or mass hammering of scan button is intended. And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question?
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.15 12:07:00 - [255] Ok, after a conversation with Myra2007 and a good nightFs rest I realized I have not really done a good job explaining on how the new probing mechanics have lowered the profits of low sec. And for that I sincerely apologize. In a nutshell: Pre-Apocrypha. Even with the system teeming with pirates and neutrals, as long as there werenFt probes in sight meant I could continue my mission. I had a decent time to detect probes. They had to be placed manually which meant a better time for detection (certainly not the 5-second window we have now). This translates to extra time to profit. Post-Apocrypha. 5-second window to detect combat probes is ridiculously improbable to accomplish. Even one neutral in the system means I have to dock my PVE (ie, profit earner) ship because I have no idea whether IFm being probed with the d-scanner or not. EVEN if I go fight, go twiddle my thumbs, go blob, go grow some balls, my profit is still 0 isk! Basically, pre-Apocrypha I could still operate in low sec even with pirates and neutrals in the area because my directional scanner was still somewhat reliable in relaying information. Now, no other precaution I take will help this situation. Yes, dropping a can at warp-in and aligning is all good, but remember, if my mission is busted, even if I manage to get away, my profits hit the floor. So I want to try and keep my deadspace from being probed out. I hope this somewhat clears things a bit to those readers that are genuinely making an attempt to better understand the situation.
Sorted Highwaymen	Posted - 2009.07.15 12:32:00 - [256] Originally by: Exlegion but remember, if my mission is busted, even if I manage to get away, my profits hit the floor. So I want to try and keep my deadspace from being probed out. I hope this somewhat clears things a bit to those readers that are genuinely making an attempt to better understand the situation. THIS is what your whining about. PRE or POST Apoc its the same, your profits drop when your probed out END OF. Whine abotu 1 thing at at time to keep it simple for us idiots. Button bash scanner OR people busting your mission kills your profits. (Which in the 2nd case SHOULD be a lobby to boost low sec mission rewards to offset the busted loss)
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance	Posted - 2009.07.15 12:51:00 - [257] The implicit assumption by the OP, is that players who are taking reasonable precautions should be able to see scanner probes before the probes have a hit on them. I don't think that's necessarily a given. It's certainly how things worked before, because of the nature of probes, but now as has been stated it's possible to release the actual scan probes for a period of ten seconds or so before getting the warpable hit. The main difference between probing now and probing previously, is that knowledge of the target's position in space gives you an advantage with probe placement; previously, you could know for sure that the target ship was exactly between two planets, but without a safespot nearby you couldn't drop probes there. Now, smart probers that are able to get within 14AU of a target can narrow down their position with the direction scanner first, rather than having to narrow down the position with scan probes. The critical difference here is that the same process takes place, but the first part of it is invisible to the ship that's being hunted. Without wanting to create too much of a strawman, it seems like the OP's logic work as follows: IF I am not at a celestial object AND There are no probes on scan THEN I am completely safe He's upset that this no longer holds, and that the presence of probes is no longer a reliable sign that someone is hunting him - therefore, action must be taken so that this situation is restored. I want to question this assumption. I don't think it's by any means a given that you should be 100% able to detect scan probes of someone who's scanning you down - this worked in the past because of the system, but I don't consider it a fundamental tenet of the risk-reward balance. Especially when you consider that the times noted here only apply to players who find you with the directional scanner initially, pin your location down to a very small degree, memorise this position in relation to the celestial bodies with enough accuracy to place probes around it with a short enough range to get a warpable hit on the first go, warp out out your 14AU scan range, drop the probes, position the probes, scan, and recall probes. Contrary to what you might think, it certainly takes a savvy (to employ this method rather than just narrowing you down by successive probe hits) and skilful (to translate directional scanner results to an instant 100% probe hit) scanner to pull this off. Against someone who takes the more obvious approach (multiple probe scans), or misses on the first scan (typically will need at least two more scans, the first a wider-range scan to find you and the second to pin you down at 100%), the probes will be in space for much longer. TL;DR - to my mind, there need be no guarantee that you'll see probes in space trying to find you. You'll probably see them if you scan regularly enough; but this should not be the sole metric you rely on when determining how much risk you're in, and from the sounds of your complaints you're expecting it to be.
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.15 15:29:00 - [258] Originally by: Gartel Reiman [`snipped for brevity`] My assumption, and I admit it could be wrong, is that an alert low sec mission runner should have a reasonable and fair chance at knowing when he is being probed out. IFm not asking for 100% safety or a 100% guarantee that I will see the probes. But what I am saying is a 5-second window is TOTALLY UNREASONABLE and UNACCEPTABLE to me, at least. I keep reading that I want to be in complete safety in low sec and I just donFt know how to put it any clearer. IFM NOT LOOKING TO BE SAFE IN LOW SEC. I want a fair chance at keeping my deadspace mission from being known. Again, I donFt want a 100% CHANCE THAT my space remains unknown. I WANT A FAIR chance for the ACTIVE, SMART, ALERT player paying attention to their surroundings in low sec. I WANT A FAIR, again, FAIR (IFm emphasizing FAIR) chance. Again, a 5-second window is NOT A FAIR CHANCE. Before Apocrypha I had a fair chance at detecting probes. It wasnFt 100% safe, but atleast the odds were fair. So to summarize, I donFt want 100% safety. I donFt want to be able to ALWAYS detect probes. I just want a FAIR CHANCE at detecting probes IF I am alert in order to save my mission deadspace so it doesnFt go to waste. Pre-Apocrypha I could mission in system even with pirates and neutrals in the system because as long as there werenFt probes being picked up by my scanner I knew that there was a reasonable probability that I wasnFt being scanned. Post-Apocrypha I can no longer take that chance because the odds are OVERWHELMINGLY against me. I just donFt know how to put it any clearer. Perhaps someone that does understand what IFm trying to say could help me out here, as I donFt think IFm doing a good job and for the life of me donFt know how to .
Sorted Highwaymen	Posted - 2009.07.15 17:12:00 - [259] Originally by: Sorted Originally by: Exlegion but remember, if my mission is busted, even if I manage to get away, my profits hit the floor. So I want to try and keep my deadspace from being probed out. I hope this somewhat clears things a bit to those readers that are genuinely making an attempt to better understand the situation. THIS is what your whining about. PRE or POST Apoc its the same, your profits drop when your probed out END OF. Whine abotu 1 thing at at time to keep it simple for us idiots. Button bash scanner OR people busting your mission kills your profits. (Which in the 2nd case SHOULD be a lobby to boost low sec mission rewards to offset the busted loss)
Sorted Highwaymen	Posted - 2009.07.15 17:14:00 - [260] Edited by: Sorted on 15/07/2009 17:14:03 Originally by: Exlegion Perhaps someone that does understand what IFm trying to say could help me out here, as I donFt think IFm doing a good job and for the life of me donFt know how to . I dont think you even know what you want....

Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.07.15 17:17:00 - [261] Originally by: Exlegion Basically, pre-Apocrypha I could still operate in low sec even with pirates and neutrals in the area because my directional scanner was still somewhat reliable in relaying information. Why would you think that you have the right to run a mission in hostile space? The system is claimed; it's absurd to think that you should easily be able to go in and steal their resources.
Feilamya Pelennor Swarm THE KLINGONS	Posted - 2009.07.15 17:35:00 - [262] And I thought probing anything other than NPCs is too hard or impossible with the new system. Have people finally figured out how scanning works?
DasNara Aethelwulf Blackwater Syndicate Raining Doom	Posted - 2009.07.15 19:52:00 - [263] Edited by: DasNara Aethelwulf on 15/07/2009 19:56:07 - "My assumption, and I admit it could be wrong, is that an alert low sec mission runner should have a reasonable and fair chance at knowing when he is being probed out." If there is a neut or red in a low sec sys...you are being hunted...that is your fair and reasonable chance of knowing you are being probed out - "But what I am saying is a 5-second window is TOTALLY UNREASONABLE and UNACCEPTABLE to me, at least." Read may above post....don't rely on it AT ALL!!! it wont help you - "I want a fair chance at keeping my deadspace mission from being known." How the ** do you think that is possible...you want an instance, those are not in the game and should not - "Again, I donFt want a 100% CHANCE THAT my space remains unknown." not what you just said - "I WANT A FAIR chance for the ACTIVE, SMART, ALERT player paying attention to their surroundings in low sec. I WANT A FAIR, again, FAIR (IFm emphasizing FAIR) chance." Read my rules for life in low sec and null sec - "Pre-Apocrypha I could mission in system even with pirates and neutrals in the system because as long as there werenFt probes being picked up by my scanner I knew that there was a reasonable probability that I wasnFt being scanned.Post-Apocrypha I can no longer take that chance because the odds are OVERWHELMINGLY against me." I do understand want you are saying...you want ppl to announce to you that you were being scanned...i can not say this more clearly....if there are combat ships in system...you are being scanned down...just because you didnt see the probes doesnt mean they weren't looking for you. - "In a nutshell: Pre-Apocrypha. Even with the system teeming with pirates and neutrals, as long as there werenFt probes in sight meant I could continue my mission. I had a decent time to detect probes. They had to be placed manually which meant a better time for detection (certainly not the 5-second window we have now)" this statement astounds me...pre-apoc, you had 30 secs to live from the time that i got into the system. if the you saw the probe...i was already next to you and the fleet was in warp...so i'm not sure how you think the new sys sucks...the new sys gives you those few more secs that you are asking for. - "Post-Apocrypha. 5-second window to detect combat probes is ridiculously improbable to accomplish. Even one neutral in the system means I have to dock my PVE (ie, profit earner) ship because I have no idea whether IFm being probed with the d-scanner or not." This whole statement...i will refer you to my post about how to fly in low sec above...you should dock with one nuet in sys....if you dont fail mail. - "Basically, pre-Apocrypha I could still operate in low sec even with pirates and neutrals in the area because my directional scanner was still somewhat reliable in relaying information." you should not rely on the d-scan m8 - "Now, no other precaution I take will help this situation. Yes, dropping a can at warp-in and aligning is all good, but remember, if my mission is busted, even if I manage to get away, my profits hit the floor." BOO-HOO - "So I want to try and keep my deadspace from being probed out." WHAT!!!! sir i dont think that low sec is for you...you would be happier in high sec - "I hope this somewhat clears things a bit to those readers that are genuinely making an attempt to better understand the situation." yes it does...you want scouts to announce they are looking for you...and you want your deadspace to not be popped** My left is in retreat, my center is giving way; situation excellent, I attack - Joffe 1916
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.15 21:46:00 - [264] Edited by: Exlegion on 15/07/2009 21:48:16 Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Exlegion Basically, pre-Apocrypha I could still operate in low sec even with pirates and neutrals in the area because my directional scanner was still somewhat reliable in relaying information. Why would you think that you have the right to run a mission in hostile space? The system is claimed; it's absurd to think that you should easily be able to go in and steal their resources. My friend, low sec isn't alliance space. Low space cannot be "claimed". Albeit hostile, very hostile, it is designed to allow the most capable of players to thrive in it even. Whether it's through solo-piracy or solo mission-running. It is possible to survive in low sec as long as you are extremely careful. I'm not here to debate that. The D-scanner is supposed to be a useful tool for the mission runner along with other tools. At the moment it is broken for us mission runners. I think in the end CCP will review it and tune it to fix the current problem. What I would like from this thread is ideas on going about a reasonable fix. I don't want things to swing too easy in the direction of the mission runner because that would be game-breaking as well. I think that most readers understand that spamming a button every 5 seconds is not the right implementation. So, where do we go from here? What do you think would be a fair interval to press a button? If CCP does decides to go the 'automated' route, I'd cautious but it might turn out to swing things in the other direction, but meh, I just don't know. Anyway, there have been some good ideas already proposed and I appreciate that. Keep them coming.
Ariane VoxDei	Posted - 2009.07.15 23:17:00 - [265] Originally by: Orivanna There are some of you who are SUPPORTING spamming a button EVERY 3 SECONDS? They are used to that from WoW. Heck, try raiding as a enhance shaman or a hunter. Spam every GCD (every 1.5s) for 3-5hours. So from their point of view missionrunning carebears SHOULD be expected to spam that much. But it is probably too much to hope that they will realize how wrong it is.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Buffalo Soldiers	Posted - 2009.07.15 23:31:00 - [266] Missions spawn within a predictable area. Pirates who've been probing systems around a mission hub will soon figure this out, and concentrate their efforts in the region the mission deadspaces spawn. After some days of effort, the pirate will have built up a collection of bookmarks where mission gates were found. After some more effort this collection can become large enough that all the pirate needs is the directional scanner. When he finds where you are located, he may already have a bookmark that is inside your deadspace. When he warps to it, he lands on the gate. No probes needed at all. Pirates who already have a large collection of bookmarks won't be affected at all by any changes to probes. *-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then* --**
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.07.15 23:33:00 - [267] Combat probes + directional scanner = fine. This game caters to carebears way too much already, and now you want to be safe mission running in lowsec?
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.16 11:14:00 - [268] Originally by: Omara Otawan Combat probes + directional scanner = fine. This game caters to carebears way too much already, and now you want to be safe mission running in lowsec? They're not fine. Read more than just the title to understand what's going on.
Pytria Le'Danness Placid Reborn	Posted - 2009.07.16 12:00:00 - [269] I moved to low sec and have been running missions there about a month after this character was created (so roughly since 2006) mainly for RP reasons. I lost ONE ship to a gate camp, got probed out a few times but never lost a ship during a mission. When the Apocrpyha scanning system arrived I did a few test scans and found out how quick you can be located and was worried. Then I did some high-sec missions to fix my standings and realized I could make almost the same if not more ISK in these high-sec almost zero risk missions. There were some Ninja salvagers, but they didn't bother me much. So I had the choice: stay in low sec, keep spamming the scanner for the duration of the mission and earn only a little bit more, or move to high sec and run missions in safety. Last, spamming the scanner is utterly BORING and annoying. This is a game ffs, if I want to do boring repetetive tasks I stay at work . Thankfully wormholes proved a distraction for some time, but right now I am again evaluating how to continue. I tried to convince new corp members to move to low sec, but there simply was no argument that made low sec attractive enough. THAT is IMO the biggest issue: the risk/reward ratios are highly skewed in favor of high sec. Why should I go to low sec to earn a little more ISK if it is way less annoying to do that in high sec? If you think this through to the end this results in a "consentual PvP only" environment because only those who look for PvP are going to enter low sec, and IMO that's a big loss for the game. Thus in my eyes the risk/reward ratio needs to be tweaked, either by making low sec more rewarding, lowering the high sec earnings or reducing the risk factor. Personally I prefer the first option since IMO people who are active and take risks should be rewarded, not the lazy ones penalized - they might be lazy, but they are still customers after all. As for reducing the risks: IMO the deadspace protection granted by the old system was pretty balanced - I was probed out despite it but it was sufficiently difficult so you were only surprised if you did not watch the scanner. Also a simple filter for probes on the directional scanner would be great since scanning right now is decidedly un-fun - and if I do not have fun in a GAME I move elsewhere (high sec or wormholes in this case). Right now I am back in high sec since it is not my idea of fun to grind my mouse buttons off in order to survive. If everyone thinks that way low sec and by extension EVE will lose a lot appeal. Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn"
Exlegion Caldari Salva Veritate	Posted - 2009.07.16 12:04:00 - [270] Pytria Le'Danness, Good post. I enjoyed reading it. It's pretty much the dilemma I'm going through right now. And it's a shame this is the current state we're in. I love Eve. And this is probably my greatest pet peeve about it. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr



Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.