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Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
7
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Posted - 2012.05.21 06:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello,
I am basically a carebear, although I don't shy away from risk and danger. In fact, I love it. I will gladly take more risk for more reward or just more fun, although I don't actively seek out PvP, or very rarely do. I just love the adrenaline rush of trying to avoid or escape potential danger.
So, this said, I've been considering training up to fly a tier 1 carrier (not super carriers which are way beyond my budget) and I was wondering if anyone has tried to use them in low sec space alone, without alts, for pve? I was thinking of scouting out a few regions to find a nice quiet pocket of space, setup a station there, and do plex's and level 5 missions in a carrier.
Keep in mind this is just a little idea for the hell of it, and it's months away anyhow in training time, but I think it could be cool. I'm more of a solo or small gang type of player so this really interests me a lot. A capital class carrier is really the only ship one can fly solo that truly has the dps and tank to withstand more than one sub cap ship in pvp indefinitely. I only need to worry about HICs and cynosaural fields.
So the questions are,
What would be the best carrier (or dread if you think it could be good in pve) to run level 5s and some plex's in low sec with?
And just to be sure, normal carriers can use stargates and dock in stations, right?
Thanks. |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
42
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Posted - 2012.05.21 06:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
you still dont know yet what can carrier do, dont even think about it |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
86
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Posted - 2012.05.21 07:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aim smaller.
Much smaller.
And less expensive. |
Markius TheShed
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
27
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Posted - 2012.05.21 07:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Your PVE experience would probably go like this.
1.OMG solo carrier missioning in...........system
2.Ive got him probed out / hes aggressed on station / hes trying to jump through a gate!!!!!
3.Cyno up Cyno up JUMP JUMP
4.Dread bomb lands
5.?????
6.WTB new carrier
If you want to mission in low sec get yourself a cloaky tengu |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
7
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Posted - 2012.05.21 07:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
If I see probes on the D scan I'll aligning instantly. I know it takes a few seconds in a carrier, but I doubt they'd have time to probe me out and get a fleet in before I could escape.
I don;t know, part of me just wants to try and see if I can do it. I mean, a couple billion isk for a carrier is a lot, but it's not unrecoverable. It's worth it for the excitement.
So really, which carrier or dread would be best suited for this sort of venture? |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
73
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Posted - 2012.05.21 08:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:If I see probes on the D scan I'll aligning instantly. I know it takes a few seconds in a carrier, but I doubt they'd have time to probe me out and get a fleet in before I could escape.
Just hope they don't bookmark your mission/plex and have a HIC waiting for you when you undock again. Or just stay in system and let you ship spin for a few hours.
(PS: saying carriers take "a few seconds" is probably the understatement of the year.)
Quote:So really, which carrier or dread would be best suited for this sort of venture?
Let's see...
Carrier: + Cheaper, so you when you inevitably die you lose less. + Can actually hit targets smaller than a POS. + Neuts and ECM drones to give you a chance of escaping when you inevitably screw up and get tackled. - Fighters are expensive to replace when an NPC decides to kill them. - Larger cargo and ship bay mean that you will probably forget to unload all of your stuff before dying in pvp, making your lolmail even more shameful.
Dread: + More EFT dps, which is all that matters since you will never be able to undock this ship. + More EFT tank. - Can't hit anything smaller than another capital ship, so you die as soon as you find a mission with a scrambling frigate. - Costs more.
If I were you, I'd go with the dread. Since you can just fit battleship guns you can save quite a bit of training time over the carrier and its fighters, which means less time wasted when you finally realize that "lowsec solo PvE in a capital ship" is a bad idea. |
Markius TheShed
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
27
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Posted - 2012.05.21 08:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ok you have seen probes so you warp out, Prober scans out your mission site then sits cloaked inside waiting for you to come back.
I have no idea which carrier would be good for this and good luck if you decide to still do it. |
Denuo Secus
52
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Posted - 2012.05.21 08:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
I didn't try this self but I read people do lvl5 missions (those without gate) and anoms with carriers. Thanatos is considered as "PvE carrier" because of its slot layout + damage bonus to fighters. Most important, capitals cannot use stargates! You'd need to find missions/plexes in the system you're in or you need a cyno mate/alt.
Check 'Missions & Complexes' forum. Some good advice there. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
7
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Posted - 2012.05.21 08:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Wait a second, I thought non super capitals could use stargates? Just dreads and tier 1 carriers.
Even basic relatively cheap and small tier 1 carriers can't use stargates? Are you kidding?
Damn that's a bummer. |
Denuo Secus
52
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Posted - 2012.05.21 08:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:Wait a second, I thought non super capitals could use stargates? Just dreads and tier 1 carriers.
Even basic relatively cheap and small tier 1 carriers can't use stargates? Are you kidding?
Damn that's a bummer.
Freighters and Jump freighters are the only capitals which can use gates. |
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Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
7
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Posted - 2012.05.21 08:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
I don't understand why CCP decided not to let basic carriers use a Stargate.
Do they just despise solo players or something?
If I want to risk an expensive ship and go about it alone why should I be restricted from doing so alone? |
Denuo Secus
52
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Posted - 2012.05.21 08:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:I don't understand why CCP decided not to let basic carriers use a Stargate.
Do they just despise solo players or something?
If I want to risk an expensive ship and go about it alone why should I be restricted from doing so alone?
Use a marauder or T3-cruiser instead. Nearly the same price tag (800mio+) and they are made for PVE (marauders).
EDIT: also faction BS. Navy Raven, Rattlesnake, Machariel, ...expensive but very efficient in PvE. |
Markius TheShed
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
27
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Posted - 2012.05.21 08:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Also you only need a HIC to tackle a Super Cap a carrier can be tackled by a Rupture.
http://murie.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13144657 |
c4 t
Push Pharmaceuticals Push Interstellar Network
27
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Posted - 2012.05.21 08:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:I don't understand why CCP decided not to let basic carriers use a Stargate.
Do they just despise solo players or something?
If I want to risk an expensive ship and go about it alone why should I be restricted from doing so alone?
Bro. You need to chillax.
I don't know why carriers cant use stargates. There are probably multiple answers, one of which is that it is to prevent powerful ships from getting into sovereign space in 0.0. Sure you could just make gates going into highsec or sov 0.0 not allow capitals through them, but eh. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
7
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Posted - 2012.05.21 09:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sorry, I don't want to come across as angry. I am just shocked and rather very disappointed. I had an idea of something cool and risky to do, and I truly did not believe it would be stopped because of an arbritrary game mechanic. That's not very sandboxy.
Also I thought carriers were immune to being tackled besides bubbles and HICs. That's surprising too, although far from a deal breaker, just means I'd need to be more cautious.
I don't see why capital ships jumping into sov space is much of a factor. If you want to limit huge cap fleets from blobbing in through the gates, just make it limit capital ship travel through gates leading into sov space to 1 every 5 or 10 minutes, or something like that. That'd be acceptable to me and would allow me the ability to use a basic carrier without having to rely on friends or an alt.
Oh and by the way, for the suggestion to use a T3, I am. I'm using a Tengu right now, and I love it. Currently training towards a Nightmare actually, will have that soon enough. I just wanted to gravitate towards large ships to see how I would like them. I love the idea of having extreme defenses. |
Ashimat
Reconfiguration Nation Transmission Lost
19
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Posted - 2012.05.21 09:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:I am basically a carebear, although I don't shy away from risk and danger. In fact, I love it. I will gladly take more risk for more reward or just more fun, although I don't actively seek out PvP, or very rarely do. I just love the adrenaline rush of trying to avoid or escape potential danger.
Oh and by the way, for the suggestion to use a T3, I am. I'm using a Tengu right now, and I love it. Currently training towards a Nightmare actually, will have that soon enough. I just wanted to gravitate towards large ships to see how I would like them. I love the idea of having extreme defenses. Check w-space out, looks like it could be a good fit for you.
To bad SPLU is not around anymore, doing what you say you love was basically what they excelled at... Should be a lot of other fine w-space corps out there that do it thou. |
Sup B1tches
Quovis CORE Alliance
29
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Posted - 2012.05.21 10:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Risk Vs reward is good, and usually it pays out well. One of the greatest examples of this is doing L5's in a nyx :)
In terms of normal low sec solo stuff though (each out of 10, where 10 is the greatest): Risk = 10, reward = 2.
Nul sec sov space: Risk = 7, reward = 8
Gangs working L5's in low sec with carriers: Risk = 9, Rewards = 10.
You will need a pretty awesome gang to work like a well oiled machine though. But if you do, you could rip through L5's like there is no tomorrow! |
Kasutra
Tailor Company
36
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Posted - 2012.05.21 10:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Denuo Secus wrote:I didn't try this self but I read people do lvl5 missions (those without gate) and anoms with carriers. Thanatos is considered as "PvE carrier" because of its slot layout + damage bonus to fighters. Most important, capitals cannot use stargates! You'd need to find missions/plexes in the system you're in or you need a cyno mate/alt. People PvE in carriers. But I doubt they really solo PvE. A green/blue local makes all the difference in the world.
Drakarin wrote:Sorry, I don't want to come across as angry. I am just shocked and rather very disappointed. I had an idea of something cool and risky to do, and I truly did not believe it would be stopped because of an arbritrary game mechanic. That's not very sandboxy. Would it be less blasphemous if "capital ships" were renamed "bigass alliance/corporation teamwork ships"? Because that would probably be a more accurate name for them.
If what you want is to solo in lowspace in a boat that's too big and too expensive to do the job right, you can do that. "Too big" and "too expensive" just means "pirate or T2 battleship", not "capital ship". |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
85
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Posted - 2012.05.21 12:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
If you're heading off to low-sec in something mildly expensive you'ld better learn low-sec in something cheap first. Do some PVE in an AF, than a HAC. A carrier shouldn't even be on the menu atm.
You seem to be under the impression the carrier is merely 'the next step up' after a BS. This isn't true. A carrier is a fleet support ship. That it can be used to effectively PvE doens't change its role nor the need for a corporation with intel, logistics, safe space, ...
If any half decent pirate in low sec finds a carrier on D-scan (no probes needed) and that it's not on a station, you'll be hunted down. At some point some combat probes will warp to your location from out of scan range, do one scan and warp away. If you don't D-scan within this 10s window, you'll be surprised when a stealthbomber decloaks to point you. If you're unaligned, you're always dead.
If you manage to get out, your PVE spot will be watched. If you dock up too late when a hunter shows up in local (i.e. after he notices a carrier PvEing and he has mates), he probe down you spot and trap it.
TL,DR: carrier PvE works, but it's not a 1-man job. TL,DR2: start loosing some ships in low sec again first. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 14:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think you people are missing the point.
I don't truly care if I end up losing the Carrier.
I mean, that is to say I don't want to lose it, it's still a pretty sizeable chunk of isk, but if it happens it happens. It's part of the excitement. I guess now knowing that I cannot use a stargate even with the smallest carrier, I'll have to setup camp in the system with the level 5 agent.
Do level 5 agents usually give missions that are done in the same system, or are they normally done 1 jump away like level 4s?
If it's the latter, I don't get it. Why would CCP intentionally cripple a solo player just trying to have fun. If I want to risk this much isk just for the hell of it to try something new I should be able to. Sigh, I'm just quite disappointed in that. |
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Staxed
Black Rebel Rifter Club
6
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Posted - 2012.05.21 15:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Why do you keep saying the 'smallest' carrier? There is only 1 carrier. A SuperCarrier is not a carrier. A carrier is not a T1 carrier...it's a carrier. It's not a 'small' carrier, it's a CARRIER.
Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.
By all means, more power to you if you want to do it, everyone here has given excellent advice though, doing it solo is just asking to get ganked.
Carriers take a lot longer than 'a few seconds' to align and warp out. I can scan down a carrier with a probing alt and get point on you before you have a chance to warp out. You are greatly overestimating the GTFO ability of a carrier...they are SLOW.
And about the gates, etc...that does not stop you from doing missions in other systems...that's is what a cyno alt is for :). And before you say you don't have an alt...flying a cap without a cyno alt is just begging to die :).
Feel free to go do it anyway, just trying to make you realize how much risk is going to be involved... |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
87
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Posted - 2012.05.21 15:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Drakarin wrote: If it's the latter, I don't get it. Why would CCP intentionally cripple a solo player just trying to have fun. If I want to risk this much isk just for the hell of it to try something new I should be able to. Sigh, I'm just quite disappointed in that.
CCP isn't intentionally crippling solo players fun, it is intentionally creating multiplay experiences, that, you know, benefit from having multiple players. Lvl 5 missions were created to allow players to team together for greater glory. There is plenty of solo player mission content available already.
If you want to risk isk, fly a tengu or pirate BS. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
7
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Posted - 2012.05.21 15:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:Drakarin wrote: If it's the latter, I don't get it. Why would CCP intentionally cripple a solo player just trying to have fun. If I want to risk this much isk just for the hell of it to try something new I should be able to. Sigh, I'm just quite disappointed in that.
CCP isn't intentionally crippling solo players fun, it is intentionally creating multiplay experiences, that, you know, benefit from having multiple players. Lvl 5 missions were created to allow players to team together for greater glory. There is plenty of solo player mission content available already. If you want to risk isk, fly a tengu or pirate BS.
By preventing me from using a stargate while in low security space, yes they are. They are forcing me to either have an alt, which I refuse to on the grounds that it's 100% cheating, or have friends, which defeats the point in this case. I want to go solo.
CCP has game mechanics that prevent me from doing so. I don't care if it's hard, as long as it's not actually impossible due to an arbitrary game mechanic that does not even serve any reasonable purpose.
As for actually probing me down before I can align out, maybe; but there's no way you'll get an entire fleet in and kill me before I can take our your tackle with a huge drone bay full of T2 light drones. With the new drone damage modules coming out, as well as more skill points into drones, that should not be a problem unless you brought along 20 battleships and 5 HICs. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
113
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Posted - 2012.05.21 15:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
You can get an onyx to 200,000 ehp with a cloak, cyno, and a point range if over 40km I believe. One if those would last ling enough to hold you till the fleet jumps in. And yes, you may notice it the first time. However, people love capital ship kills. Once they find out you solo, they will stalk you. In fact, just by posting your intentions, you've probably been added to at least 5 watch lists already.
As for the alts are cheating, honestly, that mentality is foolish. It's your choice, but you are hindering yourself and it will hurt you in the long run. If you can afford a carrier, you cam afford an alt, don't let foolish hangups kill you. Having a cyno alt you can use to gtfo is vital. The same is true for the gate complaints. It is what it is, deal with it.
Again, as many have suggested, skip the carrier and go pirate faction. A rattlesnake would work well. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
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Posted - 2012.05.21 15:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Just because everyone uses an alt does not mean it's not cheating. It's allowed because if they were banned CCP would lose at least 20% of their revenue if not more. It's a business, financial decision that has nothing to do with making the game better, fun or fair. So I refuse to take part in it. If I wanted I could maintain 10 alts but that's not fun. I do not want to give myself unfair advantages, I am only annoyed right now when the game literally forces me to do so because of a flawed mechanic. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
113
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Posted - 2012.05.21 16:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
Why do you feel it is cheating? I have never played an mmo that limits people to one character on one account. This would be extremely limiting and prevent people from accessing all aspects of a game. As for an unfair advantage, doesn't the skill training system in eve give older players an unfair advantage by the same logic? I have not had time to skill to a carrier, yet others have. By your logic that would be unfair and I should be gifted skill points it you should restart your character everytime a new player joins eve.
Honestly, play as you like,but it seems to me that you are seriously limiting yourself with this manner of thinking. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
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Posted - 2012.05.21 16:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Why do you feel it is cheating? I have never played an mmo that limits people to one character on one account. This would be extremely limiting and prevent people from accessing all aspects of a game. As for an unfair advantage, doesn't the skill training system in eve give older players an unfair advantage by the same logic? I have not had time to skill to a carrier, yet others have. By your logic that would be unfair and I should be gifted skill points it you should restart your character everytime a new player joins eve.
Honestly, play as you like,but it seems to me that you are seriously limiting yourself with this manner of thinking.
I do not want an advantage that both detracts from immersion (I am one character, not two or ten) nor do I want one to increase my potential damage or utility. This is not fair considering it costs more money or vast amounts of isk to maintain.
I suppose it doesn't matter too much to people who simply want to win and don't care about immersion in their games, but I do. I go at it alone, with my single character; and try my best. That's fun for me.
I am not very keen on the notion that you can actually buy isk with real life money either. Rich people irl should not get an advantage in an MMORPG. |
Kasutra
Tailor Company
37
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Posted - 2012.05.21 16:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:If it's the latter, I don't get it. Why would CCP intentionally cripple a solo player just trying to have fun. If I want to risk this much isk just for the hell of it to try something new I should be able to. Sigh, I'm just quite disappointed in that. With all due respect, you're sounding like someone complaining that a seesaw doesn't have a single player mode. Capital ships are not solo ships. There are plenty of toys in this sandbox that you can play with alone. A carrier just isn't one of them, and that is by design. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
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Posted - 2012.05.21 16:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
It's a Sandbox. If I want to use a ship that is not in the way it is intended to, it may not work great, or might, the point is that in a sandbox the option should be there.
I am not asking for any additional power, no different perks. The only thing I ask is to be able to travel out of a system without needing an alt or a friend. In a normal carrier, not a super carrier, this is not unreasonable. A carrier doesn't take that long to train for nor is it prohibitively expensive like a super carrier. |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
87
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 17:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:It's a Sandbox. If I want to use a ship that is not in the way it is intended to, it may not work great, or might, the point is that in a sandbox the option should be there. The only thing I ask is to be able to travel out of a system without needing an alt or a friend. In a normal carrier, this is not unreasonable.
It is. The carrier is intended to fly for a corp not an individual. You can use it in a different way than it is intended to and the option is there. Since I keep replying and you won't heed sound advice I'm giving you 6/10. |
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