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Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
43
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Posted - 2012.05.22 01:44:00 -
[61] - Quote
I feel dumb to return and actually reply, really!!
noone ever intend to do as your idea because they know it's dumb, so you're the first
and carrier can't kill the tackle ship, since forever, and nothing is wrong about that.
once again, you do not yet know the cons, pros of the carrier, you shouldn't fly it.
people use it to rat in null because it's their space, not some random empire space
LS isn't deadly but also not somewhere you can derp around in anything expensive if you dont know what you're doing.
it's not risk, it's suicide!!!!! |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
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Posted - 2012.05.22 01:58:00 -
[62] - Quote
Yep, makes sense that a multi billion isk ship can't kill one small tackle ship eventually.
Or.. not.
I don't expect to kill them fast, but the notion that they can tank the damage of a carrier permanently is ridiculous. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
166
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Posted - 2012.05.22 03:29:00 -
[63] - Quote
It's entirely possible to solo lvl 5's in a carrier. I'd advise either a thanny or an archon (archon is more forgiving)
You'll have to work at finding a place to run them though, you'll need to get a cyno alt, and you'll have to be aligned out at all times so you can instawarp the second you see probes on scan. Remember fighters follow you if you warp out
But yeh, you will make billions, carrier will pay for itself in a few days. There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Siksak
Enterprise Estonia Northern Coalition.
0
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Posted - 2012.05.22 04:09:00 -
[64] - Quote
Since you don't seem to want to heed other peoples' warning or advice, I'll try to list the options, that are available to you.
Thanatos is probably the most effective carrier for this purpose because of its damage bonus, if you want more survivability/tank, go with Chimera or Archon, pay no mind to Nidhoggur. Then try to purchase the carrier in the system your agent is located in or setup a buy order for one or have someone move it there for you (since you play solo and don't use cynoalts).
Then you would be good to go, except in my experience the mission is rarely in the same system as the agent, more likely 1-2 jumps away. Now I have a friend who does lvl5-s in a carrier and has one in each system the agent sends him to, so no need to use cynos. However, not all the systems the agent sends you to have stations to keep a carrier in. You could set up a POS in these systems and keep a carrier floating inside, but as mentioned before, you'd be providing an extra target for the local hostiles as well. And that about covers it I believe.
Oh, and you do know, that you can do only missions without acceleration gates in a carrier? I'm not sure what the ratio for an agent is for gated/non-gated missions, probably around 50/50.
Anyway, best of luck to you and may you find the thrills you are looking for. |
Octoven
Lupus Draconis Dragehund
2
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Posted - 2012.05.22 04:21:00 -
[65] - Quote
One thing to say to this, Im a carrier pilot and you sir are a **** tard, using a carrier this way makes me sick. Carriers help the fleet and the fleet help the carrier. I have never seen a ******* US Navy Aircraft carrier run solo. By all means run your sites and please let me know the system, Ill be sure to bring a carrier and whoop your carrier's ass, know why? Because my carrier will have a ******* fleet like it should be used.
Do yourself a favor, just selfdestruct the ******, you will be saving your carrier missery. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 04:40:00 -
[66] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:I don't expect to kill them fast, but the notion that they can tank the damage of a carrier permanently is ridiculous.
Sure you can probably kill it eventually (though with your poor skills I doubt you're getting maximum drone damage) unless it's a high-end interceptor that can outrun even Warrior IIs and point you from outside neut range, but who cares? Either that small tackler is armed with a cyno, and you have just a few seconds before the incoming capital blob locks and points you and you die shortly after, or it has a subcapital fleet in warp already and you die shortly after.
PS: once again you demonstrate your complete ignorance of the game mechanics. Good luck keeping that carrier alive for more than a day. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
166
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 05:13:00 -
[67] - Quote
Octoven wrote:One thing to say to this, Im a carrier pilot and you sir are a **** tard, using a carrier this way makes me sick. Carriers help the fleet and the fleet help the carrier. I have never seen a ******* US Navy Aircraft carrier run solo. By all means run your sites and please let me know the system, Ill be sure to bring a carrier and whoop your carrier's ass, know why? Because my carrier will have a ******* fleet like it should be used.
Do yourself a favor, just selfdestruct the ******, you will be saving your carrier missery. I use a carrier this way You'll be able to find me in either Iges, covryn, uphallant, or dastryns
Send your tanks, I got frags! I got frags!
---
Merin Ryskin wrote:Either that small tackler is armed with a cyno, and you have just a few seconds before the incoming capital blob locks and points you and you die shortly after [...]
PS: once again you demonstrate your complete ignorance of the game mechanics. You should probably know that you can't cyno inside deadspace before trolling people over game mechanics knowledge. There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 05:31:00 -
[68] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:You should probably know that you can't cyno inside deadspace before trolling people over game mechanics knowledge.
There's a reason I said "either cyno or in warp", not "100% cyno". Given his lack of understanding, I would not be surprised if he gets tackled on a station and decides to try to kill the tackler instead of docking, for example. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 05:52:00 -
[69] - Quote
Siksak wrote:Since you don't seem to want to heed other peoples' warning or advice, I'll try to list the options, that are available to you.
Thanatos is probably the most effective carrier for this purpose because of its damage bonus, if you want more survivability/tank, go with Chimera or Archon, pay no mind to Nidhoggur. Then try to purchase the carrier in the system your agent is located in or setup a buy order for one or have someone move it there for you (since you play solo and don't use cynoalts).
Then you would be good to go, except in my experience the mission is rarely in the same system as the agent, more likely 1-2 jumps away. Now I have a friend who does lvl5-s in a carrier and has one in each system the agent sends him to, so no need to use cynos. However, not all the systems the agent sends you to have stations to keep a carrier in. You could set up a POS in these systems and keep a carrier floating inside, but as mentioned before, you'd be providing an extra target for the local hostiles as well. And that about covers it I believe.
Oh, and you do know, that you can do only missions without acceleration gates in a carrier? I'm not sure what the ratio for an agent is for gated/non-gated missions, probably around 50/50.
Anyway, best of luck to you and may you find the thrills you are looking for.
Thanks for the advice.
Merin Ryskin wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:You should probably know that you can't cyno inside deadspace before trolling people over game mechanics knowledge. There's a reason I said "either cyno or in warp", not "100% cyno". Given his lack of understanding, I would not be surprised if he gets tackled on a station and decides to try to kill the tackler instead of docking, for example.
I am not 100% familiar with capital class ships, but I know basic game knowledge. I wouldn't trigger an aggression timer so I can't dock.
Octoven wrote:One thing to say to this, Im a carrier pilot and you sir are a **** tard, using a carrier this way makes me sick. Carriers help the fleet and the fleet help the carrier. I have never seen a ******* US Navy Aircraft carrier run solo. By all means run your sites and please let me know the system, Ill be sure to bring a carrier and whoop your carrier's ass, know why? Because my carrier will have a ******* fleet like it should be used.
Do yourself a favor, just selfdestruct the ******, you will be saving your carrier missery.
Why does it bother you that I want to use a carrier solo in a video game? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
256
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 06:51:00 -
[70] - Quote
Only place I can see solo ratting in a carrier as viable is sov null, with a very close eye on local Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. (Link was wrong, now fixed) |
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IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
158
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 06:52:00 -
[71] - Quote
Just to clarify you are arguing that you should be able to jump your carrier UNSCOUTED though a low sec gate to a mission system because you think thats a good idea.
I can't even begin to tell you how stupid this idea is, the reason capital ships have jump drives (their strongest asset) is because they would be neigh on impossible to move if they had to go through gates.
You would get tackled at a gate before you even got to your first mission in all probabilities. You can run missions in a carrier when the mission spawns in the same system as your carrier (fairly common). I did this once, before the first mission was done I saw an cyno onyx in local with a killboard showing repeated supercap drops.
Yes its doable, have a go if you want. It is far from a clever idea, expect to lose your ship. Do not complain that the game caters to using a corporation asset to solo missions in low security space. |
Baneken
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
126
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 08:02:00 -
[72] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:Wait a second, I thought non super capitals could use stargates? Just dreads and tier 1 carriers.
Even basic relatively cheap and small tier 1 carriers can't use stargates? Are you kidding?
Damn that's a bummer.
Is this a troll thread ?
If it is 7/10 for some bites.
To clarify a) carrier has a signature size of a mountain range b) warp disruptor is enough to stop you from using a jump drive c) you are immune to e-war while in triage but unable to move or use any drones what so ever and you can still be neuted to death. d) Capital is faster to align then a freighter but it still take almost a full minute to align and warp. e) you need a cyno alt to move from system to system f) everyone and I mean everyone can see your cyno g) everyone's always in for a capital killmail
Edit: h) bumping, read all about it. |
Dervinus
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
44
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 10:26:00 -
[73] - Quote
This thread is great. I think the obvious question for you is: How were you planning on moving your carrier around at all without a cyno alt? Were you hoping to just buy your carrier and have it magically appear in your mission system? Having a cyno alt is not a suggestion, its a basic requirement for any capital pilot unless you have a large group of friends who you trust with your ship to light cynos for you. I think you need to join a corporation and get some exposure to capital ships in action before you consider actually flying one yourself. THE DOVITANI FOR CSM |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:44:00 -
[74] - Quote
I like the fact no one has yet to provide a valid reason why my alternative suggestion wouldn't work for capital stargate travel.
If I want to take the risk, so be it. The worse that can happen is that I die and you guys get a capital kill mail, why the hell are you fighting against that? |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
87
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:06:00 -
[75] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:I like the fact no one has yet to provide a valid reason why my alternative suggestion wouldn't work for capital stargate travel.
If I want to take the risk, so be it. The worse that can happen is that I die and you guys get a capital kill mail, why the hell are you fighting against that? That was too obvious. You were on a roll for a minute there. |
Death Toll007
Fleet of Doom Psychotic Tendencies.
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:10:00 -
[76] - Quote
OP: I like where your head's at... you looking for a new corp? We could use some more people with balls for hotdrops.
-DT |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
115
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:14:00 -
[77] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:I like the fact no one has yet to provide a valid reason why my alternative suggestion wouldn't work for capital stargate travel.
If I want to take the risk, so be it. The worse that can happen is that I die and you guys get a capital kill mail, why the hell are you fighting against that?
What's the point of providing a "valid" reason if you won't listen to the advice already posted. Most probably don't feel like providing such reasons because they doubt you will read it or view it as valid. You have your mind set, go get your carrier and try it. And well, if you show similar stubbornness, you will argue against any "valid" reason by simply being stubborn and saying it isn't valid.
Also, this is not the forum for discussing new features or changes to mechanics. If you wish to put forth a suggestion for how.carriers could travel through a stargate, try the new features forum.
We've all told you that in the least you need a cyno to move the ship from system to system. Either get a cyno alt or friends who will help. Of that displeased you, go to the new features board and try to get the rules changed.
If all you want is the risk of losing an expensive ship, go try a pirate faction battleship. Anything else is just wasting time at this point. |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
320
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:38:00 -
[78] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:If you can explain to me what reason there is that would validate complete denial of stargate use for capitals, I'm perfectly open to hearing it. As long as there is a timer on each stargate preventing more than one capital from jumping through every 5 to 10 minutes, I can't think of a good reason.
I am genuinely curious to know if there is one. I am not saying the game should be broken or severely changed to suit my needs. I merely pointing out an effective solution that would allow for both parties to be satisfied without penalty.
Have you ever taken a really large poop? The kind that strains your rubbery ring-piece to the snapping point, and makes you feel like you're giving birth to an adult Shaquille O'Neal who's punching his way out of your bowels?
That's why carriers can't fit through stargates. |
Orlacc
167
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:55:00 -
[79] - Quote
Your repeated use of the phrase "I want" kind of tells the tale for me...
As in: "I want to rat with a Titan." |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:39:00 -
[80] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Drakarin wrote:I like the fact no one has yet to provide a valid reason why my alternative suggestion wouldn't work for capital stargate travel.
If I want to take the risk, so be it. The worse that can happen is that I die and you guys get a capital kill mail, why the hell are you fighting against that? What's the point of providing a "valid" reason if you won't listen to the advice already posted. Most probably don't feel like providing such reasons because they doubt you will read it or view it as valid. You have your mind set, go get your carrier and try it. And well, if you show similar stubbornness, you will argue against any "valid" reason by simply being stubborn and saying it isn't valid. Also, this is not the forum for discussing new features or changes to mechanics. If you wish to put forth a suggestion for how.carriers could travel through a stargate, try the new features forum. We've all told you that in the least you need a cyno to move the ship from system to system. Either get a cyno alt or friends who will help. Of that displeased you, go to the new features board and try to get the rules changed. If all you want is the risk of losing an expensive ship, go try a pirate faction battleship. Anything else is just wasting time at this point.
Faction ships are weak. Low effective HP, compared to a capital carrier. Ya, a carrier is slower, but it's far more menacing and I imagine more fun to use. It's just a guess, since I haven't flown one yet, but this is only a game. I don't care about taking a risk and I certainly am not trying to win anything or become a god of killmails. That's not fun for me.
I think I will make another thread in revelation of this absurd stargate mechanic though.
Orlacc wrote:Your repeated use of the phrase "I want" kind of tells the tale for me...
As in: "I want to rat with a Titan."
When you provide a solution so that it does not affect anyone else but you still get what you want, I see nothing wrong. |
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
74
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:50:00 -
[81] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:When you provide a solution so that it does not affect anyone else but you still get what you want, I see nothing wrong.
What is wrong is that banning carriers from stargates is a deliberate balance choice. If you don't like that choice, either get a cyno alt like every other capital pilot, or accept that you aren't going to be able to do this particular stupid and suicidal thing. Or just buy your carrier and self destruct it immediately, which will produce the same end result but without forcing some poor programmer to change the gate code to accommodate you. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:57:00 -
[82] - Quote
Denying capitals from using Stargates simultaneously or within a short period of time from each other is a balance decision, absolutely.
To outright deny them all indefinitely is just lazy. |
Emiko Luan
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
65
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:51:00 -
[83] - Quote
People said thanatos repeatedly -_-
Either way carriers are not menacing except as super logistics.
It's funny how you want to change the sandbox to suit you, when it would make it worse for others (slow jumping of caps through gates)
Yes a sandbox lets you use a ship for something it wasn't meant to be used for, but you can't ALSO expect it to be very effective. One of the "effectiveness" stats on a carrier is the jumpdrive/no startgate balance.
You don't solo mission in a Scimitar or an Onyx either, even though it's physically possible.
Think of it like trying to fit an aircraft carrier up a river. EVE has never been solo friendly, it just tolerates solo activities.
+welcome to my world+ http://venomzer0.deviantart.com |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
481
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 19:07:00 -
[84] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:I like the fact no one has yet to provide a valid reason why my alternative suggestion wouldn't work for capital stargate travel.
Ok, fine.
Capitals are meant to move by cyno because the beacon lights to the entire system, basically broadcasting to anyone interested that a capital may be entering. This is intentional. Obviously, gate jumps don't light up a system the same way.
In fact, cynos are meant to provide tactical points at which combat can/should occur. Without the beacon, that doesn't happen, and that's bad.
As for why a gate timer wouldn't work so well... you do realize that all it would take to tackle a cynoless cap would be to jump your own cap through before your gank, right? Silly carrier reapproaches gate only to have a Moros jump through and siege.
Bottom line is that cyno travel was put in place for a reason. Capital travel without cynos means no cynos are lit and there's no beacon showing incoming capitals. Gate travel would also limit the effectiveness of cyno jammers, which are rather a big deal in null. Incursions also cyno jam systems, which presumably is also a fully intended mechanic to limit investment of capital ships on those fronts.
So no, I don't think your timer idea really solves anything, and yes I do think it creates more problems than you realize.
Look, it's been said many, many times already: just get yourself a damn cyno alt and go for it. Buddy program one and you can have it up in less than week for the price of a single plex. If you decide it's something you want to stick with either keep the account or gang up with some other people to make it work for you. But at the very least, you ought to try it the way it works now before you propose massive changes.
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Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
47
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 19:14:00 -
[85] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:Denying capitals from using Stargates simultaneously or within a short period of time from each other is a balance decision, absolutely.
To outright deny them all indefinitely is just lazy. you can petition to CCP, none of us gives a f what you think is balance.
thanny is the best carrier for what you want, anything can tackle you and you won't be able to kill them, you can't jump gate, and you need cyno to move out of your current system.
all are facts, accept it or stfu |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 20:24:00 -
[86] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Drakarin wrote:I like the fact no one has yet to provide a valid reason why my alternative suggestion wouldn't work for capital stargate travel. Ok, fine. Capitals are meant to move by cyno because the beacon lights to the entire system, basically broadcasting to anyone interested that a capital may be entering. This is intentional. Obviously, gate jumps don't light up a system the same way. In fact, cynos are meant to provide tactical points at which combat can/should occur. Without the beacon, that doesn't happen, and that's bad. As for why a gate timer wouldn't work so well... you do realize that all it would take to tackle a cynoless cap would be to jump your own cap through before your gank, right? Silly carrier reapproaches gate only to have a Moros jump through and siege. Bottom line is that cyno travel was put in place for a reason. Capital travel without cynos means no cynos are lit and there's no beacon showing incoming capitals. Gate travel would also limit the effectiveness of cyno jammers, which are rather a big deal in null. Incursions also cyno jam systems, which presumably is also a fully intended mechanic to limit investment of capital ships on those fronts. So no, I don't think your timer idea really solves anything, and yes I do think it creates more problems than you realize. Look, it's been said many, many times already: just get yourself a damn cyno alt and go for it. Buddy program one and you can have it up in less than week for the price of a single plex. If you decide it's something you want to stick with either keep the account or gang up with some other people to make it work for you. But at the very least, you ought to try it the way it works now before you propose massive changes.
I think you may have misunderstood me. I was never proposing that cynos and jump drives be removed. Those will still function, and to move more than 2 capitals in any sane amount of time that would be the only way to go about doing it. Make the timer every 30 minutes for 1 capital, per stargate. No problem. It can be long, as long as it's possible for just one to slip through every now and again. It's not totally unreasonable is it?
I guess I'll have to get an alt, but man. Having to compromise immersion to just function normally after years of playing the game. That's not really cool.
It's hard when EvE is the only hardcore persistent MMORPG on the market. Certainly the only one involving spaceships.. it's hard when this is true and it tends to reject your playstyle. Frustration tends to build up in me, I'm sorry if I might come across as cold or rude. I don't mean that. I just like going at it alone, and when the only game close to what you want doesn't like that playstyle much it can mess with your head.
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Mr Ranger
Nullsec Pimps Associated Apocalypse Now.
0
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Posted - 2012.05.22 22:29:00 -
[87] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:
I think you may have misunderstood me. I was never proposing that cynos and jump drives be removed. Those will still function, and to move more than 2 capitals in any sane amount of time that would be the only way to go about doing it. Make the timer every 30 minutes for 1 capital, per stargate. No problem. It can be long, as long as it's possible for just one to slip through every now and again. It's not totally unreasonable is it?
I guess I'll have to get an alt, but man. Having to compromise immersion to just function normally after years of playing the game. That's not really cool.
It's hard when EvE is the only hardcore persistent MMORPG on the market. Certainly the only one involving spaceships.. it's hard when this is true and it tends to reject your playstyle. Frustration tends to build up in me, I'm sorry if I might come across as cold or rude. I don't mean that. I just like going at it alone, and when the only game close to what you want doesn't like that playstyle much it can mess with your head.
How do you decide which captial jumps if two capitals attempt to use the gate at the same time, is it 1 jump/30 min per way. Can i jump one way and someone else jump back the other? How does it help you if someone else who is soloing in a carrier in the same system uses the gate before you do, now you are stuck waiting 30 min before you can even try to move, not to mention he will want to come back in system after he is done so will be waiting on the other side. Your solution doesnt really fix the problem you seem to have, which there is no problem, you can solo carrier all you want without leaving system. If you want to move, get friends or alts. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
166
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 22:43:00 -
[88] - Quote
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:Drakarin wrote:If you can explain to me what reason there is that would validate complete denial of stargate use for capitals, I'm perfectly open to hearing it. As long as there is a timer on each stargate preventing more than one capital from jumping through every 5 to 10 minutes, I can't think of a good reason.
I am genuinely curious to know if there is one. I am not saying the game should be broken or severely changed to suit my needs. I merely pointing out an effective solution that would allow for both parties to be satisfied without penalty. Have you ever taken a really large poop? The kind that strains your rubbery ring-piece to the snapping point, and makes you feel like you're giving birth to an adult Shaquille O'Neal who's punching his way out of your bowels? That's why carriers can't fit through stargates. Seven years since reading about the infamous impoc incident, thinking that was just the coolest thing ever, and immediately signing up for an eve trial.
And you are still making me lol ^^
Drakarin wrote:I guess I'll have to get an alt, but man. Having to compromise immersion to just function normally after years of playing the game. That's not really cool. ahahahahaha, AN alt? If you're serious about running l5's you're gonna need 2 or 3 of them. In case you missed it before, you'll get less than a 50% hit rate on l5 missions, they'll give you gated ones you can't take a carrier on. You'll need to be pulling missions from multiple char's if you want to chain l5's the same way you would chain l4's, I'd also really recommend having one of them go gung-ho on social skills so you can reject a good amount of missions even when in reject cool down.
btw I wouldn't really call this 'function normally', I'd call this min-maxed cashwhoring endgame for a solo player. There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
206
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 23:49:00 -
[89] - Quote
Carriers are not designed to be solo ships. Stop crying and accept it. I mean what next, are you gonna burst into tears over the fact the Megathron isn't designed for cargo hauling or something? |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
88
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 00:13:00 -
[90] - Quote
bring back AOE DD |
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