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Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 06:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello,
I am basically a carebear, although I don't shy away from risk and danger. In fact, I love it. I will gladly take more risk for more reward or just more fun, although I don't actively seek out PvP, or very rarely do. I just love the adrenaline rush of trying to avoid or escape potential danger.
So, this said, I've been considering training up to fly a tier 1 carrier (not super carriers which are way beyond my budget) and I was wondering if anyone has tried to use them in low sec space alone, without alts, for pve? I was thinking of scouting out a few regions to find a nice quiet pocket of space, setup a station there, and do plex's and level 5 missions in a carrier.
Keep in mind this is just a little idea for the hell of it, and it's months away anyhow in training time, but I think it could be cool. I'm more of a solo or small gang type of player so this really interests me a lot. A capital class carrier is really the only ship one can fly solo that truly has the dps and tank to withstand more than one sub cap ship in pvp indefinitely. I only need to worry about HICs and cynosaural fields.
So the questions are,
What would be the best carrier (or dread if you think it could be good in pve) to run level 5s and some plex's in low sec with?
And just to be sure, normal carriers can use stargates and dock in stations, right?
Thanks. |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
42
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 06:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
you still dont know yet what can carrier do, dont even think about it |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
86
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 07:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aim smaller.
Much smaller.
And less expensive. |
Markius TheShed
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 07:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Your PVE experience would probably go like this.
1.OMG solo carrier missioning in...........system
2.Ive got him probed out / hes aggressed on station / hes trying to jump through a gate!!!!!
3.Cyno up Cyno up JUMP JUMP
4.Dread bomb lands
5.?????
6.WTB new carrier
If you want to mission in low sec get yourself a cloaky tengu |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 07:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
If I see probes on the D scan I'll aligning instantly. I know it takes a few seconds in a carrier, but I doubt they'd have time to probe me out and get a fleet in before I could escape.
I don;t know, part of me just wants to try and see if I can do it. I mean, a couple billion isk for a carrier is a lot, but it's not unrecoverable. It's worth it for the excitement.
So really, which carrier or dread would be best suited for this sort of venture? |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 08:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:If I see probes on the D scan I'll aligning instantly. I know it takes a few seconds in a carrier, but I doubt they'd have time to probe me out and get a fleet in before I could escape.
Just hope they don't bookmark your mission/plex and have a HIC waiting for you when you undock again. Or just stay in system and let you ship spin for a few hours.
(PS: saying carriers take "a few seconds" is probably the understatement of the year.)
Quote:So really, which carrier or dread would be best suited for this sort of venture?
Let's see...
Carrier: + Cheaper, so you when you inevitably die you lose less. + Can actually hit targets smaller than a POS. + Neuts and ECM drones to give you a chance of escaping when you inevitably screw up and get tackled. - Fighters are expensive to replace when an NPC decides to kill them. - Larger cargo and ship bay mean that you will probably forget to unload all of your stuff before dying in pvp, making your lolmail even more shameful.
Dread: + More EFT dps, which is all that matters since you will never be able to undock this ship. + More EFT tank. - Can't hit anything smaller than another capital ship, so you die as soon as you find a mission with a scrambling frigate. - Costs more.
If I were you, I'd go with the dread. Since you can just fit battleship guns you can save quite a bit of training time over the carrier and its fighters, which means less time wasted when you finally realize that "lowsec solo PvE in a capital ship" is a bad idea. |
Markius TheShed
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 08:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ok you have seen probes so you warp out, Prober scans out your mission site then sits cloaked inside waiting for you to come back.
I have no idea which carrier would be good for this and good luck if you decide to still do it. |
Denuo Secus
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 08:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
I didn't try this self but I read people do lvl5 missions (those without gate) and anoms with carriers. Thanatos is considered as "PvE carrier" because of its slot layout + damage bonus to fighters. Most important, capitals cannot use stargates! You'd need to find missions/plexes in the system you're in or you need a cyno mate/alt.
Check 'Missions & Complexes' forum. Some good advice there. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 08:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Wait a second, I thought non super capitals could use stargates? Just dreads and tier 1 carriers.
Even basic relatively cheap and small tier 1 carriers can't use stargates? Are you kidding?
Damn that's a bummer. |
Denuo Secus
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 08:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:Wait a second, I thought non super capitals could use stargates? Just dreads and tier 1 carriers.
Even basic relatively cheap and small tier 1 carriers can't use stargates? Are you kidding?
Damn that's a bummer.
Freighters and Jump freighters are the only capitals which can use gates. |
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Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 08:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
I don't understand why CCP decided not to let basic carriers use a Stargate.
Do they just despise solo players or something?
If I want to risk an expensive ship and go about it alone why should I be restricted from doing so alone? |
Denuo Secus
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 08:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:I don't understand why CCP decided not to let basic carriers use a Stargate.
Do they just despise solo players or something?
If I want to risk an expensive ship and go about it alone why should I be restricted from doing so alone?
Use a marauder or T3-cruiser instead. Nearly the same price tag (800mio+) and they are made for PVE (marauders).
EDIT: also faction BS. Navy Raven, Rattlesnake, Machariel, ...expensive but very efficient in PvE. |
Markius TheShed
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 08:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Also you only need a HIC to tackle a Super Cap a carrier can be tackled by a Rupture.
http://murie.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=13144657 |
c4 t
Push Pharmaceuticals Push Interstellar Network
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 08:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:I don't understand why CCP decided not to let basic carriers use a Stargate.
Do they just despise solo players or something?
If I want to risk an expensive ship and go about it alone why should I be restricted from doing so alone?
Bro. You need to chillax.
I don't know why carriers cant use stargates. There are probably multiple answers, one of which is that it is to prevent powerful ships from getting into sovereign space in 0.0. Sure you could just make gates going into highsec or sov 0.0 not allow capitals through them, but eh. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 09:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sorry, I don't want to come across as angry. I am just shocked and rather very disappointed. I had an idea of something cool and risky to do, and I truly did not believe it would be stopped because of an arbritrary game mechanic. That's not very sandboxy.
Also I thought carriers were immune to being tackled besides bubbles and HICs. That's surprising too, although far from a deal breaker, just means I'd need to be more cautious.
I don't see why capital ships jumping into sov space is much of a factor. If you want to limit huge cap fleets from blobbing in through the gates, just make it limit capital ship travel through gates leading into sov space to 1 every 5 or 10 minutes, or something like that. That'd be acceptable to me and would allow me the ability to use a basic carrier without having to rely on friends or an alt.
Oh and by the way, for the suggestion to use a T3, I am. I'm using a Tengu right now, and I love it. Currently training towards a Nightmare actually, will have that soon enough. I just wanted to gravitate towards large ships to see how I would like them. I love the idea of having extreme defenses. |
Ashimat
Reconfiguration Nation Transmission Lost
19
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 09:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:I am basically a carebear, although I don't shy away from risk and danger. In fact, I love it. I will gladly take more risk for more reward or just more fun, although I don't actively seek out PvP, or very rarely do. I just love the adrenaline rush of trying to avoid or escape potential danger.
Oh and by the way, for the suggestion to use a T3, I am. I'm using a Tengu right now, and I love it. Currently training towards a Nightmare actually, will have that soon enough. I just wanted to gravitate towards large ships to see how I would like them. I love the idea of having extreme defenses. Check w-space out, looks like it could be a good fit for you.
To bad SPLU is not around anymore, doing what you say you love was basically what they excelled at... Should be a lot of other fine w-space corps out there that do it thou. |
Sup B1tches
Quovis CORE Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 10:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Risk Vs reward is good, and usually it pays out well. One of the greatest examples of this is doing L5's in a nyx :)
In terms of normal low sec solo stuff though (each out of 10, where 10 is the greatest): Risk = 10, reward = 2.
Nul sec sov space: Risk = 7, reward = 8
Gangs working L5's in low sec with carriers: Risk = 9, Rewards = 10.
You will need a pretty awesome gang to work like a well oiled machine though. But if you do, you could rip through L5's like there is no tomorrow! |
Kasutra
Tailor Company
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 10:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Denuo Secus wrote:I didn't try this self but I read people do lvl5 missions (those without gate) and anoms with carriers. Thanatos is considered as "PvE carrier" because of its slot layout + damage bonus to fighters. Most important, capitals cannot use stargates! You'd need to find missions/plexes in the system you're in or you need a cyno mate/alt. People PvE in carriers. But I doubt they really solo PvE. A green/blue local makes all the difference in the world.
Drakarin wrote:Sorry, I don't want to come across as angry. I am just shocked and rather very disappointed. I had an idea of something cool and risky to do, and I truly did not believe it would be stopped because of an arbritrary game mechanic. That's not very sandboxy. Would it be less blasphemous if "capital ships" were renamed "bigass alliance/corporation teamwork ships"? Because that would probably be a more accurate name for them.
If what you want is to solo in lowspace in a boat that's too big and too expensive to do the job right, you can do that. "Too big" and "too expensive" just means "pirate or T2 battleship", not "capital ship". |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
85
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 12:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
If you're heading off to low-sec in something mildly expensive you'ld better learn low-sec in something cheap first. Do some PVE in an AF, than a HAC. A carrier shouldn't even be on the menu atm.
You seem to be under the impression the carrier is merely 'the next step up' after a BS. This isn't true. A carrier is a fleet support ship. That it can be used to effectively PvE doens't change its role nor the need for a corporation with intel, logistics, safe space, ...
If any half decent pirate in low sec finds a carrier on D-scan (no probes needed) and that it's not on a station, you'll be hunted down. At some point some combat probes will warp to your location from out of scan range, do one scan and warp away. If you don't D-scan within this 10s window, you'll be surprised when a stealthbomber decloaks to point you. If you're unaligned, you're always dead.
If you manage to get out, your PVE spot will be watched. If you dock up too late when a hunter shows up in local (i.e. after he notices a carrier PvEing and he has mates), he probe down you spot and trap it.
TL,DR: carrier PvE works, but it's not a 1-man job. TL,DR2: start loosing some ships in low sec again first. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 14:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think you people are missing the point.
I don't truly care if I end up losing the Carrier.
I mean, that is to say I don't want to lose it, it's still a pretty sizeable chunk of isk, but if it happens it happens. It's part of the excitement. I guess now knowing that I cannot use a stargate even with the smallest carrier, I'll have to setup camp in the system with the level 5 agent.
Do level 5 agents usually give missions that are done in the same system, or are they normally done 1 jump away like level 4s?
If it's the latter, I don't get it. Why would CCP intentionally cripple a solo player just trying to have fun. If I want to risk this much isk just for the hell of it to try something new I should be able to. Sigh, I'm just quite disappointed in that. |
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Staxed
Black Rebel Rifter Club
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 15:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Why do you keep saying the 'smallest' carrier? There is only 1 carrier. A SuperCarrier is not a carrier. A carrier is not a T1 carrier...it's a carrier. It's not a 'small' carrier, it's a CARRIER.
Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.
By all means, more power to you if you want to do it, everyone here has given excellent advice though, doing it solo is just asking to get ganked.
Carriers take a lot longer than 'a few seconds' to align and warp out. I can scan down a carrier with a probing alt and get point on you before you have a chance to warp out. You are greatly overestimating the GTFO ability of a carrier...they are SLOW.
And about the gates, etc...that does not stop you from doing missions in other systems...that's is what a cyno alt is for :). And before you say you don't have an alt...flying a cap without a cyno alt is just begging to die :).
Feel free to go do it anyway, just trying to make you realize how much risk is going to be involved... |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
87
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 15:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Drakarin wrote: If it's the latter, I don't get it. Why would CCP intentionally cripple a solo player just trying to have fun. If I want to risk this much isk just for the hell of it to try something new I should be able to. Sigh, I'm just quite disappointed in that.
CCP isn't intentionally crippling solo players fun, it is intentionally creating multiplay experiences, that, you know, benefit from having multiple players. Lvl 5 missions were created to allow players to team together for greater glory. There is plenty of solo player mission content available already.
If you want to risk isk, fly a tengu or pirate BS. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 15:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:Drakarin wrote: If it's the latter, I don't get it. Why would CCP intentionally cripple a solo player just trying to have fun. If I want to risk this much isk just for the hell of it to try something new I should be able to. Sigh, I'm just quite disappointed in that.
CCP isn't intentionally crippling solo players fun, it is intentionally creating multiplay experiences, that, you know, benefit from having multiple players. Lvl 5 missions were created to allow players to team together for greater glory. There is plenty of solo player mission content available already. If you want to risk isk, fly a tengu or pirate BS.
By preventing me from using a stargate while in low security space, yes they are. They are forcing me to either have an alt, which I refuse to on the grounds that it's 100% cheating, or have friends, which defeats the point in this case. I want to go solo.
CCP has game mechanics that prevent me from doing so. I don't care if it's hard, as long as it's not actually impossible due to an arbitrary game mechanic that does not even serve any reasonable purpose.
As for actually probing me down before I can align out, maybe; but there's no way you'll get an entire fleet in and kill me before I can take our your tackle with a huge drone bay full of T2 light drones. With the new drone damage modules coming out, as well as more skill points into drones, that should not be a problem unless you brought along 20 battleships and 5 HICs. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
113
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 15:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
You can get an onyx to 200,000 ehp with a cloak, cyno, and a point range if over 40km I believe. One if those would last ling enough to hold you till the fleet jumps in. And yes, you may notice it the first time. However, people love capital ship kills. Once they find out you solo, they will stalk you. In fact, just by posting your intentions, you've probably been added to at least 5 watch lists already.
As for the alts are cheating, honestly, that mentality is foolish. It's your choice, but you are hindering yourself and it will hurt you in the long run. If you can afford a carrier, you cam afford an alt, don't let foolish hangups kill you. Having a cyno alt you can use to gtfo is vital. The same is true for the gate complaints. It is what it is, deal with it.
Again, as many have suggested, skip the carrier and go pirate faction. A rattlesnake would work well. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 15:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Just because everyone uses an alt does not mean it's not cheating. It's allowed because if they were banned CCP would lose at least 20% of their revenue if not more. It's a business, financial decision that has nothing to do with making the game better, fun or fair. So I refuse to take part in it. If I wanted I could maintain 10 alts but that's not fun. I do not want to give myself unfair advantages, I am only annoyed right now when the game literally forces me to do so because of a flawed mechanic. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
113
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 16:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
Why do you feel it is cheating? I have never played an mmo that limits people to one character on one account. This would be extremely limiting and prevent people from accessing all aspects of a game. As for an unfair advantage, doesn't the skill training system in eve give older players an unfair advantage by the same logic? I have not had time to skill to a carrier, yet others have. By your logic that would be unfair and I should be gifted skill points it you should restart your character everytime a new player joins eve.
Honestly, play as you like,but it seems to me that you are seriously limiting yourself with this manner of thinking. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 16:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Why do you feel it is cheating? I have never played an mmo that limits people to one character on one account. This would be extremely limiting and prevent people from accessing all aspects of a game. As for an unfair advantage, doesn't the skill training system in eve give older players an unfair advantage by the same logic? I have not had time to skill to a carrier, yet others have. By your logic that would be unfair and I should be gifted skill points it you should restart your character everytime a new player joins eve.
Honestly, play as you like,but it seems to me that you are seriously limiting yourself with this manner of thinking.
I do not want an advantage that both detracts from immersion (I am one character, not two or ten) nor do I want one to increase my potential damage or utility. This is not fair considering it costs more money or vast amounts of isk to maintain.
I suppose it doesn't matter too much to people who simply want to win and don't care about immersion in their games, but I do. I go at it alone, with my single character; and try my best. That's fun for me.
I am not very keen on the notion that you can actually buy isk with real life money either. Rich people irl should not get an advantage in an MMORPG. |
Kasutra
Tailor Company
37
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 16:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:If it's the latter, I don't get it. Why would CCP intentionally cripple a solo player just trying to have fun. If I want to risk this much isk just for the hell of it to try something new I should be able to. Sigh, I'm just quite disappointed in that. With all due respect, you're sounding like someone complaining that a seesaw doesn't have a single player mode. Capital ships are not solo ships. There are plenty of toys in this sandbox that you can play with alone. A carrier just isn't one of them, and that is by design. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 16:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
It's a Sandbox. If I want to use a ship that is not in the way it is intended to, it may not work great, or might, the point is that in a sandbox the option should be there.
I am not asking for any additional power, no different perks. The only thing I ask is to be able to travel out of a system without needing an alt or a friend. In a normal carrier, not a super carrier, this is not unreasonable. A carrier doesn't take that long to train for nor is it prohibitively expensive like a super carrier. |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
87
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 17:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:It's a Sandbox. If I want to use a ship that is not in the way it is intended to, it may not work great, or might, the point is that in a sandbox the option should be there. The only thing I ask is to be able to travel out of a system without needing an alt or a friend. In a normal carrier, this is not unreasonable.
It is. The carrier is intended to fly for a corp not an individual. You can use it in a different way than it is intended to and the option is there. Since I keep replying and you won't heed sound advice I'm giving you 6/10. |
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Kaanchana
Rocket Rajas
165
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 17:05:00 -
[31] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:It's a Sandbox. If I want to use a ship that is not in the way it is intended to, it may not work great, or might, the point is that in a sandbox the option should be there.
I am not asking for any additional power, no different perks. The only thing I ask is to be able to travel out of a system without needing an alt or a friend. In a normal carrier, not a super carrier, this is not unreasonable. A carrier doesn't take that long to train for nor is it prohibitively expensive like a super carrier.
Op, stop whining. And learn about a ship before you start criticising CCP's decisions. Makes you look like a moron.
Solo lvl 5 carriers will be dead within a week of someone realising you are in system. And since you plan on staying in a station system, there will always be someone there. I give you 3 days max before someone figures it out.
Anyone can scan you down to closest point and then it takes a single probe scan to get you at 100%. thats 10 secs. A carrier needs more than 30 secs to align and warp. You know a t2 frig can point you and hold you down? Your fighters will do **** damage to them. If its an into, your fighters can't even catch him.
Lets say, you have heavy neuts or ecm drones, i can bet you he will have friends waiting since you obviously were missioning with neutrals in local and you won't know who is his friend or not. Forget missing when local is clear. Its a station system, you can never do that.
People give you advice/tips for a reason. Its cuz they have done it and know if its possible. You want to risk it, then good for you. Stop whining about game mechanics if you can't adapt to them.
Even if you are allowed to jump gates, how many gates do you think you can make it into low sec without a scout? Frigs and bombers get caught in camps all the time you know.. A jump drive is the best thing for travel. Get a mission, get a cyno alt into dest and jump to it when its empty.
Try using one in SISI before you buy it. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 17:07:00 -
[32] - Quote
I told you it's not about the risk. If I die, so be it. It's about the fact that one cannot actually adapt to a game mechanic that completely prohibits you from travelling between systems alone. That is a stupid game mechanic and does not belong in a sandbox game.
Like I previously stated, if it's an issue with capital fleets blobbing in on stargates, that makes sense, but to limit this you simply restrict how often capitals can use the same stargate. Between 5 and 10 minutes is fine, no capital blobbing, but solo players are not screwed over. That's fair, no? |
Leetha Layne
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 17:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
Once again, a person new to the game wants the game to be changed to suit their desires. Gets kind of annoying. EVE was not designed as a solo game.
Sorry. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 17:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
If you can explain to me what reason there is that would validate complete denial of stargate use for capitals, I'm perfectly open to hearing it. As long as there is a timer on each stargate preventing more than one capital from jumping through every 5 to 10 minutes, I can't think of a good reason.
I am genuinely curious to know if there is one. I am not saying the game should be broken or severely changed to suit my needs. I merely pointing out an effective solution that would allow for both parties to be satisfied without penalty. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
113
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 17:29:00 -
[35] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:I told you it's not about the risk. If I die, so be it. It's about the fact that one cannot actually adapt to a game mechanic that completely prohibits you from travelling between systems alone. That is a stupid game mechanic and does not belong in a sandbox game.
Like I previously stated, if it's an issue with capital fleets blobbing in on stargates, that makes sense, but to limit this you simply restrict how often capitals can use the same stargate. Between 5 and 10 minutes is fine, no capital blobbing, but solo players are not screwed over. That's fair, no?
Sandbox does not mean you can do anything you wish. We can't land on a planet and race cars. We can't send marines to board an enemy ship. We can't invent completely new technology on our own. There are limitations. You have just encountered one. Sorry, but tough luck.
As for your whole immersion logic, so play 2 characters is a no no, but a stargate should be able to transport a ship of equal mass as the gate? And continuing with immersion, even if such would work, wouldn't any faction controlling the stargate also wish to prevent the movement of capital assets through their space considering the dangers of such assets? honestly it sounds like you want things your way, but any other way which breaks your view of immersion is cheating, which seems to be very selective logic. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 17:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:[quote=Drakarin]I told you it's not about the risk. If I die, so be it. It's about the fact that one cannot actually adapt to a game mechanic that completely prohibits you from travelling between systems alone. That is a stupid game mechanic and does not belong in a sandbox game.
Like I previously stated, if it's an issue with capital fleets blobbing in on stargates, that makes sense, but to limit this you simply restrict how often capitals can use the same stargate. Between 5 and 10 minutes is fine, no capital blobbing, but solo players are not screwed over. That's fair, no?
Sandbox does not mean you can do anything you wish. We can't land on a planet and race cars. We can't send marines to board an enemy ship. We can't invent completely new technology on our own. There are limitations. You have just encountered one. Sorry, but tough luck.
Quote:As for your whole immersion logic, so play 2 characters is a no no, but a stargate should be able to transport a ship of equal mass as the gate? And continuing with immersion, even if such would work, wouldn't any faction controlling the stargate also wish to prevent the movement of capital assets through their space considering the dangers of such assets? honestly it sounds like you want things your way, but any other way which breaks your view of immersion is cheating, which seems to be very selective logic
Concord owns the stargates, yes? If they dislike pirates, all they'd have to do is disable the gate entirely after jumping through, then completely annihilate every pirate, and continue doing this system to system. Why don't they? It doesn't make sense, since they easily could. There are many holes with the lore.
As for sending a ship of equal mass through, it's just converted into energy. The more mass, the more energy is gained from the conversion, on a perfect scale. Sort of like the transporter beam. Remember energy and matter cannot be destroyed only changed. That's all that happens. It doesn't break any lore. Nor is it unfair to anyone as long as there is a delay on the gate for capitals. |
Boz Wel
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 18:09:00 -
[37] - Quote
Move into a wormhole and/or make a cyno alt if you're set on doing this. CCP hasn't prohibited you from running crap in low sec in a carrier. They have just made it so capital ships require some support (i.e., friends or alts) to move around, in exchange for their very powerful ability to move through multiple systems instantly in a single jump. Also, just as a side note, the most dangerous part of low sec is when you're moving through a gate. You can almost always redock in a camped station if you know what you're doing, and you can avoid probers pretty easily if you are diligent with your dscan. It's jumping through a gate with no vision on the other side, especially in a slow ship, where you're going to run into the most trouble.
Not all low sec space is uber dangerous and you certainly could use a carrier for low sec missions/anoms. It's just overkill for anything you're likely to face as far as low sec PVE content. If you bugger out of the site as soon as you see a single combat probe on scan, you won't die. However, you will attract unwanted attention and you may be at a greater risk of someone camping your sites in a cloaky ship. That doesn't mean it's not doable, just that it's more difficult. |
Gary Bell
Love the Bubble SpaceMonkey's Alliance
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 18:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
The stupid in this thread is amazing lol I love it... Oh and yeah carriers threw gates means highsec... and that wouldent be overpowered... 14 nuet repping carriers outside jita... get a clue play the game for more then five minutes.
PS.. plenty of people run missions in carriers, they are just smart enough to take control of the area b4 they do it..
PPS.. this is the first time I have heard a cyno alt being considered cheating lol derp
|
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 18:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
Obviously concord would not allow capitals to jump into high security space. I never suggested they be allowed to do that. |
Immortis Vexx
Lupus Draconis Dragehund
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 18:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
This topic is vaguely reminiscent of someone else that posted a request for a solo carrier. People have told you time and time again that you CAN do it but its NOT smart. What I don't like about your post is your attitude. You come here looking for advice/help and then slap all of them in the face for giving it.
Here is the main point. Go, and make this happen. Go set up your POS in the middle of nowhere and manage to get a carrier out there and start ratting. Why are you asking the forums for permission when you clearly already have the idea implanted in your head to do it? As many have said, YOU ARE A FOOL. They say that, "a fool and his money are soon parted" and you are the iconic embodiment of this saying. You WILL die, you WILL lose that carrier and your POS if you set one up. You have no understanding of this game and the low/null mechanics that run it. Furthermore, you resent the mechanics that you do not understand. Foolish, plain and simple. Take the advice from these people who are trying to save you a crapton of time/energy.
Secondly, go get an orca, put two 1600mm plates on it, and start warping around high sec. When that feels fast to you, come back and start asking about a carrier
Vexx
PS: There is a point that "risk" isn't risk anymore. I can risk my life by jumping off a skyscraper but that seems more like suicide than risk to me. |
|
Lustralis
Tiny Holdings
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 18:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:If you can explain to me what reason there is that would validate complete denial of stargate use for capitals, I'm perfectly open to hearing it. As long as there is a timer on each stargate preventing more than one capital from jumping through every 5 to 10 minutes, I can't think of a good reason.
I am genuinely curious to know if there is one. I am not saying the game should be broken or severely changed to suit my needs. I merely pointing out an effective solution that would allow for both parties to be satisfied without penalty.
It's just to do with mass limits on gates but also creating the need for cynos allows for a new point of player/player interaction, i.e. the cyno itself. Without it, caps could WTZ from gate to gate, perhaps with a couple of webbing frigs to speed up their align. Flying caps was never intended to be a solo thing. They're mostly fleet support and have quite specialised roles in many cases related to that.
I wouldn't fly one solo, period. I would definitely not fly one solo in low sec for PvE. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 18:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:you still dont know yet what can carrier do, dont even think about it
Very much this.
If you can't have some training from older players used to this you should really avoid doing so. Just a friendly warning. |
Ilkahn
Ideal Machine Many Reckless Corps
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 18:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:If I see probes on the D scan I'll aligning instantly. I know it takes a few seconds in a carrier, but I doubt they'd have time to probe me out and get a fleet in before I could escape.
I don;t know, part of me just wants to try and see if I can do it. I mean, a couple billion isk for a carrier is a lot, but it's not unrecoverable. It's worth it for the excitement.
So really, which carrier or dread would be best suited for this sort of venture?
It doesn't matter which one you get, any will do for what you want. Just don't load it up to much as you will be surprised just how fast we all will kill you. |
Marcus Ichiro
Kif Korp
26
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 18:56:00 -
[44] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:Just because everyone uses an alt does not mean it's not cheating. It's allowed because if they were banned CCP would lose at least 20% of their revenue if not more. It's a business, financial decision that has nothing to do with making the game better, fun or fair. So I refuse to take part in it. If I wanted I could maintain 10 alts but that's not fun. I do not want to give myself unfair advantages, I am only annoyed right now when the game literally forces me to do so because of a flawed mechanic.
You keep complaining that the EVE is not sandbox-y enough yet you complain about alts?
Sounds like you just want the sandbox to suit you rather than provide a fun, balanced game for everyone. |
Ilkahn
Ideal Machine Many Reckless Corps
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 18:58:00 -
[45] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:..... A carrier doesn't take that long to train for nor is it prohibitively expensive like a super carrier. I see you must not have trained drone interfacing to 5 yet, advanced starship command to 5? I'm still just at that statement. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
478
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 19:30:00 -
[46] - Quote
Here's the deal. People use carriers for PvE all the time, albeit mostly to grind sanctums in sov null. Some people use them for L5s, though they are only usable on ungated missions. The Thanatos is best for these purposes hands down.
However. Capital ships simply aren't designed for easy solo use. They can't use gates because they are meant to be corp/alliance assets. However, CCP has indeed given us a way around this: cyno alts. It's too bad you don't want to go down that road because that's an intended/endorsed gameplay mechanic for "solo" capital pilots.
As a more general matter, you've got some reading to do to make it work. If you thought carriers were immune to ewar, you need to find yourself a good guide to capital ships. If you thought a carrier could make it out once probes were on dscan, you need to practice some combat probing yourself (and perhaps EFT-warrior some fits and check your align time).
But it's all workable. You just have to make the investment, both in the second account and in some reading time. If it's something you seriously want to do, do it. Yes, you'll likely lose a few to ganks, but oh well. Embrace the game as it is and you'll find all the solutions are there.
One last thing: your idea for capital timers on gates isn't well thought-out. If you can't figure out a way for that to get brutally abused you need to sit back and think a little harder about it. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
519
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 19:40:00 -
[47] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:If you can explain to me what reason there is that would validate complete denial of stargate use for capitals, I'm perfectly open to hearing it. As long as there is a timer on each stargate preventing more than one capital from jumping through every 5 to 10 minutes, I can't think of a good reason.
I am genuinely curious to know if there is one. I am not saying the game should be broken or severely changed to suit my needs. I merely pointing out an effective solution that would allow for both parties to be satisfied without penalty.
It's not just a design decision that prevents carriers from using stargates, it's also a technical limitation.
The game coding that handles stargates does not support allowing only certain types of ships for certain stargates. The coding only supports whether or not certain ships can use stargates at all, not where.
In short, you can't limit the use of specific stargates. It's all or none. The game coding does not allow for it.
Before you start suggesting CCP re-code the stargates, no. Sorry, but there are multiple reasons why not. The biggest reason is time and effort required at the expense of other fixes and features that must be done. The stargate coding was one of the first things written for EVE waaaaayyy back in the day. Back during EVE's development era, there was little to no programming documentation being done, so the only people who understand the coding for certain areas of the game are the ones who literally wrote those parts. Many of those people no longer work for CCP.
CCP does not have the time or resources to devote rewriting the stargate coding just so you can fly your carrier through lowsec stargates. There is already a working and balanced method of transportation for capital ships. Cynosural fields.
If you don't want to get a friend to light a cyno for you, or if you don't want an alt... then your carrier isn't going anywhere. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 19:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
Immortis Vexx wrote:This topic is vaguely reminiscent of someone else that posted a request for a solo carrier. People have told you time and time again that you CAN do it but its NOT smart. What I don't like about your post is your attitude. You come here looking for advice/help and then slap all of them in the face for giving it.
Because the advice is not to do it because it's dangerous, which I already knew. What I wanted to know was which ship was best overall, and if anyone had done this before. All I have been told so far is that I am crazy for wanting the ability to fly a ship alone *Gasp*
Quote:Here is the main point. Go, and make this happen. Go set up your POS in the middle of nowhere and manage to get a carrier out there and start ratting. Why are you asking the forums for permission when you clearly already have the idea implanted in your head to do it? As many have said, YOU ARE A FOOL. They say that, "a fool and his money are soon parted" and you are the iconic embodiment of this saying. You WILL die, you WILL lose that carrier and your POS if you set one up. You have no understanding of this game and the low/null mechanics that run it. Furthermore, you resent the mechanics that you do not understand. Foolish, plain and simple. Take the advice from these people who are trying to save you a crapton of time/energy.
You say you dislike my attitude. It's a defensive attitude in retaliation from the general condescending posts that have been given so far. All I hear is "Well you don't have the cookie cutter min max attitude so you're a fool". That's very helpful and kind.
This is not an issue of a mechanic I don't understand, but a mechanic that makes no sense. Like I said before, if someone would care to divulge what the reason is for capitals to be restricted from using a stargate that does not lead to high security space, and has a limit of one capital per 5 minutes, let me know what it is. I really do want to know if there is a valid reason I have not thought of.
Quote:Secondly, go get an orca, put two 1600mm plates on it, and start warping around high sec. When that feels fast to you, come back and start asking about a carrier Vexx
If you would direct me towards a post of mine where I said that I believed a carrier would be a fast ship, I would appreciate it. I said it would take a few seconds, which is entirely correct. Perhaps more specific, as in, 20 or 30 seconds. Yes?
Quote:PS: There is a point that "risk" isn't risk anymore. I can risk my life by jumping off a skyscraper but that seems more like suicide than risk to me.
And in a sandbox if I want to commit suicide I should be able to. Although that is not what this is. This is me, thinking of a plan to have fun, risky adventures in low security space in a way that few people tend to because what is at stake is rather high. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 19:56:00 -
[49] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Here's the deal. People use carriers for PvE all the time, albeit mostly to grind sanctums in sov null. Some people use them for L5s, though they are only usable on ungated missions. The Thanatos is best for these purposes hands down.
However. Capital ships simply aren't designed for easy solo use. They can't use gates because they are meant to be corp/alliance assets. However, CCP has indeed given us a way around this: cyno alts. It's too bad you don't want to go down that road because that's an intended/endorsed gameplay mechanic for "solo" capital pilots.
As a more general matter, you've got some reading to do to make it work. If you thought carriers were immune to ewar, you need to find yourself a good guide to capital ships. If you thought a carrier could make it out once probes were on dscan, you need to practice some combat probing yourself (and perhaps EFT-warrior some fits and check your align time).
But it's all workable. You just have to make the investment, both in the second account and in some reading time. If it's something you seriously want to do, do it. Yes, you'll likely lose a few to ganks, but oh well. Embrace the game as it is and you'll find all the solutions are there.
One last thing: your idea for capital timers on gates isn't well thought-out. If you can't figure out a way for that to get brutally abused you need to sit back and think a little harder about it.
Thanks for the post, but come on. If you think it can be abused that's great, let me know how. I have thought about it. I see no way to abuse it. Unless you consider waiting 2 hours for 12 capitals to get in the system an "abuse" I don't know what to say.
Hey at least I appreciate the friendly tone.
Lustralis wrote:Drakarin wrote:If you can explain to me what reason there is that would validate complete denial of stargate use for capitals, I'm perfectly open to hearing it. As long as there is a timer on each stargate preventing more than one capital from jumping through every 5 to 10 minutes, I can't think of a good reason.
I am genuinely curious to know if there is one. I am not saying the game should be broken or severely changed to suit my needs. I merely pointing out an effective solution that would allow for both parties to be satisfied without penalty. It's just to do with mass limits on gates but also creating the need for cynos allows for a new point of player/player interaction, i.e. the cyno itself. Without it, caps could WTZ from gate to gate, perhaps with a couple of webbing frigs to speed up their align. Flying caps was never intended to be a solo thing. They're mostly fleet support and have quite specialised roles in many cases related to that. I wouldn't fly one solo, period. I would definitely not fly one solo in low sec for PvE.
I absolutely agree, which is why I proposed the delay on stargates. Only one capital every few minutes. That solves the issue, but again, lets me have my crazy fun that will likely end in me crying myself to sleep. Everyone wins.
Katrina Oniseki wrote:Drakarin wrote:If you can explain to me what reason there is that would validate complete denial of stargate use for capitals, I'm perfectly open to hearing it. As long as there is a timer on each stargate preventing more than one capital from jumping through every 5 to 10 minutes, I can't think of a good reason.
I am genuinely curious to know if there is one. I am not saying the game should be broken or severely changed to suit my needs. I merely pointing out an effective solution that would allow for both parties to be satisfied without penalty. It's not just a design decision that prevents carriers from using stargates, it's also a technical limitation.The game coding that handles stargates does not support allowing only certain types of ships for certain stargates. The coding only supports whether or not certain ships can use stargates at all, not where. In short, you can't limit the use of specific stargates. It's all or none. The game coding does not allow for it. Before you start suggesting CCP re-code the stargates, no. Sorry, but there are multiple reasons why not. The biggest reason is time and effort required at the expense of other fixes and features that must be done. The stargate coding was one of the first things written for EVE waaaaayyy back in the day. Back during EVE's development era, there was little to no programming documentation being done, so the only people who understand the coding for certain areas of the game are the ones who literally wrote those parts. Many of those people no longer work for CCP. CCP does not have the time or resources to devote rewriting the stargate coding just so you can fly your carrier through lowsec stargates. There is already a working and balanced method of transportation for capital ships. Cynosural fields. If you don't want to get a friend to light a cyno for you, or if you don't want an alt... then your carrier isn't going anywhere.
Oh...
Wow, that's disappointing. I admit I know nothing about coding, but it seems off to me that recoding gates would be that challenging. But I really can't say either way, I just don't know. If that is the case, well, that sucks. Ugh. |
Immortis Vexx
Lupus Draconis Dragehund
40
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 21:05:00 -
[50] - Quote
To OP - I didn't quote because it was too long but...
First mistake: Posting on the forums and not expecting some trolls to slip into the mix Second mistake: retaliating in kind Third mistake: Trashing the game mechanics that you haven't bothered to think about for even a minute
These three points will earn you the ire of most eve players out there, even the semi-helpful ones (like me). You even went on to DEMAND that the game mechanics be changed to suit YOUR purpose. Guess what? That REALLY annoys me. In my opinion that's as bad as the carebears asking for PVP immunity.
Capital ships are not supposed to be w/o support. You need a FLEET, which is why we have fleet compositions, strategy, Etc. A lone capital ship is like trying to siege a castle with just one catapult on the field. Why didn't our previous wars use this tactic? BECAUSE IT'S A CRAPPY PLAN! You talk like you have unlimited resources and that losing a bil is nothing or that skill training is done in a day. I lost all respect for you my friend, your lack of care and regard for the things that you own would make me really reticent to fly with you doing anything; I wouldn't trust you with an ibis let alone a carrier.
Come back when you have a healthy respect for things, people, and time; then we can talk.
Vexx
Edit: Changed a couple words to make more sense. |
|
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 21:09:00 -
[51] - Quote
What are you talking about?
This is a game. I want to have fun. It just so happens that I enjoy the prospect of risking an expensive ship not because I can easily replace it, but precisely the opposite, because I cannot. THAT is fun for me. Who are you to tell me this is an improper form of "fun"?
I am not demanding anything. I am making a suggestion that would allow for the intended function of the limit to be removed while still maintaining the integrity of sov and low sec space with the timer limit instead.
No one has yet to point out a single reason why this would not work.
To DEMAND something without providing a solution is annoying. To ask for it while providing a solution is fine. |
Immortis Vexx
Lupus Draconis Dragehund
40
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 21:37:00 -
[52] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:What are you talking about?
This is a game. I want to have fun. It just so happens that I enjoy the prospect of risking an expensive ship not because I can easily replace it, but precisely the opposite, because I cannot. THAT is fun for me. Who are you to tell me this is an improper form of "fun"?
I am not demanding anything. I am making a suggestion that would allow for the intended function of the limit to be removed while still maintaining the integrity of sov and low sec space with the timer limit instead.
No one has yet to point out a single reason why this would not work.
To DEMAND something without providing a solution is annoying. To ask for it while providing a solution is fine.
Never said you couldn't do it, said it wasn't wise. Which is something that everyone said. When they went on to explain why it was unwise because of mechanics, you suggested changes to mechanics to MAKE it wise or make it fit into your grand plan of "fun." The world doesn't revolve around your version of fun, nor should it. Your posts feel like someone constantly asking, "but why?" over and over again. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 21:39:00 -
[53] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:Because the advice is not to do it because it's dangerous, which I already knew. What I wanted to know was which ship was best overall, and if anyone had done this before. All I have been told so far is that I am crazy for wanting the ability to fly a ship alone *Gasp*
There's a difference between "dangerous" and "guaranteed suicide". There is effectively zero chance that you will make enough money to even break even on the carrier's cost before you lose it, especially since you seem to have very little understanding of how capital ships work.
If you want to save yourself a lot of effort, just buy a carrier and self destruct it. Same end result, but without all the whining about how you need a cyno alt.
Quote:This is me, thinking of a plan to have fun, risky adventures in low security space in a way that few people tend to because what is at stake is rather high.
So your idea of "fun" is either:
1) Sitting in station 23/7 because a prober found your mission, and you don't dare resume it as long as there's even a single person in local (which could be a cloaked HIC sitting on your mission gate).
or
2) Watching your expensive capital ship die in seconds to a hostile dread fleet because you didn't click dscan frequently enough to catch the few-seconds window where the probes were actually within scan range.
I'm really not seeing why this is such an awesome idea that CCP should waste development time changing the game to make it more convenient. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 21:40:00 -
[54] - Quote
It's not unwise because a mechanic does not allow me to use a stargate. It's annoying because of that. It's unwise to go about it alone because there's a good chance I will be tackled before I can escape. That is not safe.
This mechanic is pointless given the alternative I suggested. I state again, if there is a reason why my solution would not work, please do tell me. |
Leto AtradeisII
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 21:50:00 -
[55] - Quote
haven't you understood it yet?
internet spaceships is serious business....
In all honesty its a nice idea, however capital timer on gates also affects high sec as well - frieghters and jump frieghters, obviously people can and will find a way around this if it was implemented. Here is a reason why it shouldn't work: imagine you are a child at the park in the sandbox, you feel like a total jerk and want to start throwing sand at all the other kids while no ones parents are looking. The other kids get mad and start throwing sand back - one of them manages to find a small pebble and flings one at you. you retaliate by finding a small rock and throw back, finally they get ever more p.o and finds a clump of cat poop and hurls it your way. you start crying and expects mommy to clean up the mess.
There are certain rules in the sandbox that are meant to be a level the playing field for all players (check out POS BOWLING), this is why actual sandboxes are made of sand and not small rocks and pebbles. And why building progressive large sand castles takes, not just water, but the right amount of water to hold everything up.
The gate restriction also gives purpose to smaller classes of ships. The logistics restrictions have to be accounted for larger and larger vessels - this is why Titans and Supers can't dock, you are sitting in one until you lose it (or have a sitter alt), they are powerful force multipliers. These restrictions on capitals is like a "be careful what you wish for" warning. Yeah I can do 5000dps in my seiged dread, i can kill your pos solo, but would a fleet of sniper battleships be more appropriate for the task?
bite the bullet and get an alt, or better yet join a null sec alliance and carebear in your carrier in relative peace. |
Boz Wel
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 22:10:00 -
[56] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:It's not unwise because a mechanic does not allow me to use a stargate. It's annoying because of that. It's unwise to go about it alone because there's a good chance I will be tackled before I can escape. That is not safe.
This mechanic is pointless given the alternative I suggested. I state again, if there is a reason why my solution would not work, please do tell me.
Why can't my Rifter jump 10+ jumps instantly and bring a stack of fitted ships along for the ride like a carrier can? I want to haul things for my trading alt using my Rifter. I don't want to buy a carrier, this is a sandbox game, therefore I shouldn't have to. Why can't my Rifter store 800,000 m3 of exotic dancers? Why should I have to train freighters, this is a sandbox damn it. Please give me a reason why my solution of allowing my Rifter to jump to cynos and haul a million m3 of exotic dancers would not work. I state again, if you have such a reason, please do tell me. |
Etteluor
Invictus Mortalitus Paradox Initiative
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 23:08:00 -
[57] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:Obviously concord would not allow capitals to jump into high security space. I never suggested they be allowed to do that.
So let me get this straight, not taking a carrier into lowsec is game-breaking sandbox destroying slander, but not taking a carrier into highsec is fine?
Your meaning of sandbox is that if it hurts you, it breaks the sandbox, but if it hurts other people you dont care.
You also have no understanding of carriers, lets review; -you think they warp in a few seconds, lets say a few means 3-7. -you think they can use stargates -you think they can only be pointed by HICs -you think they can kill a ship that tackles you
play the game for more than 6 months before you try to go into a carrier. |
Tarn Kugisa
Space Mongolian
81
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 00:41:00 -
[58] - Quote
Drake Nuff said I Endorse this Product and/or Service [url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16580[/url] |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 01:18:00 -
[59] - Quote
Etteluor wrote:Drakarin wrote:Obviously concord would not allow capitals to jump into high security space. I never suggested they be allowed to do that. So let me get this straight, not taking a carrier into lowsec is game-breaking sandbox destroying slander, but not taking a carrier into highsec is fine? Your meaning of sandbox is that if it hurts you, it breaks the sandbox, but if it hurts other people you dont care. You also have no understanding of carriers, lets review; -you think they warp in a few seconds, lets say a few means 3-7. -you think they can use stargates -you think they can only be pointed by HICs -you think they can kill a ship that tackles you For some reason you're also convinced that there are more than one tier of carrier, you keep saying "small carrier" and "tier 1 carrier", carriers are carriers. play the game for more than 6 months before you try to go into a carrier.
Taking a carrier in low sec, intended to be dangerous, is fine. Yes. Taking it into high sec where people can declare wars on new corps is not fine. Thought that was obvious.
I never said 3-7. I know they take between 20 and 30 seconds to align and warp.
I thought the first tier, the cheapest, non super cap carrier could use a stargate, yes.
I thought only HICs could tackle a ship the size of a city, yes.
Of course they can. They have a full compliment of drones with damage buffs and tons of modules for them. If they can't, something is wrong.
There are two carriers no? One is the basic cheap one barely a billion isk, the other was previously known as a mothership, and it's a supercapital that costs up to 20 billion.
Leto AtradeisII wrote:haven't you understood it yet?
internet spaceships is serious business....
In all honesty its a nice idea, however capital timer on gates also affects high sec as well - frieghters and jump frieghters, obviously people can and will find a way around this if it was implemented. Here is a reason why it shouldn't work: imagine you are a child at the park in the sandbox, you feel like a total jerk and want to start throwing sand at all the other kids while no ones parents are looking. The other kids get mad and start throwing sand back - one of them manages to find a small pebble and flings one at you. you retaliate by finding a small rock and throw back, finally they get ever more p.o and finds a clump of cat poop and hurls it your way. you start crying and expects mommy to clean up the mess.
There are certain rules in the sandbox that are meant to be a level the playing field for all players (check out POS BOWLING), this is why actual sandboxes are made of sand and not small rocks and pebbles. And why building progressive large sand castles takes, not just water, but the right amount of water to hold everything up.
The gate restriction also gives purpose to smaller classes of ships. The logistics restrictions have to be accounted for larger and larger vessels - this is why Titans and Supers can't dock, you are sitting in one until you lose it (or have a sitter alt), they are powerful force multipliers. These restrictions on capitals is like a "be careful what you wish for" warning. Yeah I can do 5000dps in my seiged dread, i can kill your pos solo, but would a fleet of sniper battleships be more appropriate for the task?
bite the bullet and get an alt, or better yet join a null sec alliance and carebear in your carrier in relative peace.
It makes no sense to require an alt.
If CCP does not consider an exploit or cheating to use an cyno alt to get around"solo" in a carrier, there's no logical reason to keep the restriction for capitals in place when my idea is present. The only reason is money incentive for CCP via alt revenue.
I am honestly surprised I seem to be the only one who has an issue with such an overtly oppressive restriction in place, when there is such a simple and effective alternative that pleases everyone. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
97
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 01:21:00 -
[60] - Quote
This made it to 3 pages? 8/10 |
|
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
43
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 01:44:00 -
[61] - Quote
I feel dumb to return and actually reply, really!!
noone ever intend to do as your idea because they know it's dumb, so you're the first
and carrier can't kill the tackle ship, since forever, and nothing is wrong about that.
once again, you do not yet know the cons, pros of the carrier, you shouldn't fly it.
people use it to rat in null because it's their space, not some random empire space
LS isn't deadly but also not somewhere you can derp around in anything expensive if you dont know what you're doing.
it's not risk, it's suicide!!!!! |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 01:58:00 -
[62] - Quote
Yep, makes sense that a multi billion isk ship can't kill one small tackle ship eventually.
Or.. not.
I don't expect to kill them fast, but the notion that they can tank the damage of a carrier permanently is ridiculous. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
166
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 03:29:00 -
[63] - Quote
It's entirely possible to solo lvl 5's in a carrier. I'd advise either a thanny or an archon (archon is more forgiving)
You'll have to work at finding a place to run them though, you'll need to get a cyno alt, and you'll have to be aligned out at all times so you can instawarp the second you see probes on scan. Remember fighters follow you if you warp out
But yeh, you will make billions, carrier will pay for itself in a few days. There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Siksak
Enterprise Estonia Northern Coalition.
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 04:09:00 -
[64] - Quote
Since you don't seem to want to heed other peoples' warning or advice, I'll try to list the options, that are available to you.
Thanatos is probably the most effective carrier for this purpose because of its damage bonus, if you want more survivability/tank, go with Chimera or Archon, pay no mind to Nidhoggur. Then try to purchase the carrier in the system your agent is located in or setup a buy order for one or have someone move it there for you (since you play solo and don't use cynoalts).
Then you would be good to go, except in my experience the mission is rarely in the same system as the agent, more likely 1-2 jumps away. Now I have a friend who does lvl5-s in a carrier and has one in each system the agent sends him to, so no need to use cynos. However, not all the systems the agent sends you to have stations to keep a carrier in. You could set up a POS in these systems and keep a carrier floating inside, but as mentioned before, you'd be providing an extra target for the local hostiles as well. And that about covers it I believe.
Oh, and you do know, that you can do only missions without acceleration gates in a carrier? I'm not sure what the ratio for an agent is for gated/non-gated missions, probably around 50/50.
Anyway, best of luck to you and may you find the thrills you are looking for. |
Octoven
Lupus Draconis Dragehund
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 04:21:00 -
[65] - Quote
One thing to say to this, Im a carrier pilot and you sir are a **** tard, using a carrier this way makes me sick. Carriers help the fleet and the fleet help the carrier. I have never seen a ******* US Navy Aircraft carrier run solo. By all means run your sites and please let me know the system, Ill be sure to bring a carrier and whoop your carrier's ass, know why? Because my carrier will have a ******* fleet like it should be used.
Do yourself a favor, just selfdestruct the ******, you will be saving your carrier missery. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 04:40:00 -
[66] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:I don't expect to kill them fast, but the notion that they can tank the damage of a carrier permanently is ridiculous.
Sure you can probably kill it eventually (though with your poor skills I doubt you're getting maximum drone damage) unless it's a high-end interceptor that can outrun even Warrior IIs and point you from outside neut range, but who cares? Either that small tackler is armed with a cyno, and you have just a few seconds before the incoming capital blob locks and points you and you die shortly after, or it has a subcapital fleet in warp already and you die shortly after.
PS: once again you demonstrate your complete ignorance of the game mechanics. Good luck keeping that carrier alive for more than a day. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
166
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 05:13:00 -
[67] - Quote
Octoven wrote:One thing to say to this, Im a carrier pilot and you sir are a **** tard, using a carrier this way makes me sick. Carriers help the fleet and the fleet help the carrier. I have never seen a ******* US Navy Aircraft carrier run solo. By all means run your sites and please let me know the system, Ill be sure to bring a carrier and whoop your carrier's ass, know why? Because my carrier will have a ******* fleet like it should be used.
Do yourself a favor, just selfdestruct the ******, you will be saving your carrier missery. I use a carrier this way You'll be able to find me in either Iges, covryn, uphallant, or dastryns
Send your tanks, I got frags! I got frags!
---
Merin Ryskin wrote:Either that small tackler is armed with a cyno, and you have just a few seconds before the incoming capital blob locks and points you and you die shortly after [...]
PS: once again you demonstrate your complete ignorance of the game mechanics. You should probably know that you can't cyno inside deadspace before trolling people over game mechanics knowledge. There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 05:31:00 -
[68] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote:You should probably know that you can't cyno inside deadspace before trolling people over game mechanics knowledge.
There's a reason I said "either cyno or in warp", not "100% cyno". Given his lack of understanding, I would not be surprised if he gets tackled on a station and decides to try to kill the tackler instead of docking, for example. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 05:52:00 -
[69] - Quote
Siksak wrote:Since you don't seem to want to heed other peoples' warning or advice, I'll try to list the options, that are available to you.
Thanatos is probably the most effective carrier for this purpose because of its damage bonus, if you want more survivability/tank, go with Chimera or Archon, pay no mind to Nidhoggur. Then try to purchase the carrier in the system your agent is located in or setup a buy order for one or have someone move it there for you (since you play solo and don't use cynoalts).
Then you would be good to go, except in my experience the mission is rarely in the same system as the agent, more likely 1-2 jumps away. Now I have a friend who does lvl5-s in a carrier and has one in each system the agent sends him to, so no need to use cynos. However, not all the systems the agent sends you to have stations to keep a carrier in. You could set up a POS in these systems and keep a carrier floating inside, but as mentioned before, you'd be providing an extra target for the local hostiles as well. And that about covers it I believe.
Oh, and you do know, that you can do only missions without acceleration gates in a carrier? I'm not sure what the ratio for an agent is for gated/non-gated missions, probably around 50/50.
Anyway, best of luck to you and may you find the thrills you are looking for.
Thanks for the advice.
Merin Ryskin wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote:You should probably know that you can't cyno inside deadspace before trolling people over game mechanics knowledge. There's a reason I said "either cyno or in warp", not "100% cyno". Given his lack of understanding, I would not be surprised if he gets tackled on a station and decides to try to kill the tackler instead of docking, for example.
I am not 100% familiar with capital class ships, but I know basic game knowledge. I wouldn't trigger an aggression timer so I can't dock.
Octoven wrote:One thing to say to this, Im a carrier pilot and you sir are a **** tard, using a carrier this way makes me sick. Carriers help the fleet and the fleet help the carrier. I have never seen a ******* US Navy Aircraft carrier run solo. By all means run your sites and please let me know the system, Ill be sure to bring a carrier and whoop your carrier's ass, know why? Because my carrier will have a ******* fleet like it should be used.
Do yourself a favor, just selfdestruct the ******, you will be saving your carrier missery.
Why does it bother you that I want to use a carrier solo in a video game? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
256
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 06:51:00 -
[70] - Quote
Only place I can see solo ratting in a carrier as viable is sov null, with a very close eye on local Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. (Link was wrong, now fixed) |
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IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
158
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 06:52:00 -
[71] - Quote
Just to clarify you are arguing that you should be able to jump your carrier UNSCOUTED though a low sec gate to a mission system because you think thats a good idea.
I can't even begin to tell you how stupid this idea is, the reason capital ships have jump drives (their strongest asset) is because they would be neigh on impossible to move if they had to go through gates.
You would get tackled at a gate before you even got to your first mission in all probabilities. You can run missions in a carrier when the mission spawns in the same system as your carrier (fairly common). I did this once, before the first mission was done I saw an cyno onyx in local with a killboard showing repeated supercap drops.
Yes its doable, have a go if you want. It is far from a clever idea, expect to lose your ship. Do not complain that the game caters to using a corporation asset to solo missions in low security space. |
Baneken
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
126
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 08:02:00 -
[72] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:Wait a second, I thought non super capitals could use stargates? Just dreads and tier 1 carriers.
Even basic relatively cheap and small tier 1 carriers can't use stargates? Are you kidding?
Damn that's a bummer.
Is this a troll thread ?
If it is 7/10 for some bites.
To clarify a) carrier has a signature size of a mountain range b) warp disruptor is enough to stop you from using a jump drive c) you are immune to e-war while in triage but unable to move or use any drones what so ever and you can still be neuted to death. d) Capital is faster to align then a freighter but it still take almost a full minute to align and warp. e) you need a cyno alt to move from system to system f) everyone and I mean everyone can see your cyno g) everyone's always in for a capital killmail
Edit: h) bumping, read all about it. |
Dervinus
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
44
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 10:26:00 -
[73] - Quote
This thread is great. I think the obvious question for you is: How were you planning on moving your carrier around at all without a cyno alt? Were you hoping to just buy your carrier and have it magically appear in your mission system? Having a cyno alt is not a suggestion, its a basic requirement for any capital pilot unless you have a large group of friends who you trust with your ship to light cynos for you. I think you need to join a corporation and get some exposure to capital ships in action before you consider actually flying one yourself. THE DOVITANI FOR CSM |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 15:44:00 -
[74] - Quote
I like the fact no one has yet to provide a valid reason why my alternative suggestion wouldn't work for capital stargate travel.
If I want to take the risk, so be it. The worse that can happen is that I die and you guys get a capital kill mail, why the hell are you fighting against that? |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
87
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:06:00 -
[75] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:I like the fact no one has yet to provide a valid reason why my alternative suggestion wouldn't work for capital stargate travel.
If I want to take the risk, so be it. The worse that can happen is that I die and you guys get a capital kill mail, why the hell are you fighting against that? That was too obvious. You were on a roll for a minute there. |
Death Toll007
Fleet of Doom Psychotic Tendencies.
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:10:00 -
[76] - Quote
OP: I like where your head's at... you looking for a new corp? We could use some more people with balls for hotdrops.
-DT |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
115
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:14:00 -
[77] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:I like the fact no one has yet to provide a valid reason why my alternative suggestion wouldn't work for capital stargate travel.
If I want to take the risk, so be it. The worse that can happen is that I die and you guys get a capital kill mail, why the hell are you fighting against that?
What's the point of providing a "valid" reason if you won't listen to the advice already posted. Most probably don't feel like providing such reasons because they doubt you will read it or view it as valid. You have your mind set, go get your carrier and try it. And well, if you show similar stubbornness, you will argue against any "valid" reason by simply being stubborn and saying it isn't valid.
Also, this is not the forum for discussing new features or changes to mechanics. If you wish to put forth a suggestion for how.carriers could travel through a stargate, try the new features forum.
We've all told you that in the least you need a cyno to move the ship from system to system. Either get a cyno alt or friends who will help. Of that displeased you, go to the new features board and try to get the rules changed.
If all you want is the risk of losing an expensive ship, go try a pirate faction battleship. Anything else is just wasting time at this point. |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
320
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:38:00 -
[78] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:If you can explain to me what reason there is that would validate complete denial of stargate use for capitals, I'm perfectly open to hearing it. As long as there is a timer on each stargate preventing more than one capital from jumping through every 5 to 10 minutes, I can't think of a good reason.
I am genuinely curious to know if there is one. I am not saying the game should be broken or severely changed to suit my needs. I merely pointing out an effective solution that would allow for both parties to be satisfied without penalty.
Have you ever taken a really large poop? The kind that strains your rubbery ring-piece to the snapping point, and makes you feel like you're giving birth to an adult Shaquille O'Neal who's punching his way out of your bowels?
That's why carriers can't fit through stargates. |
Orlacc
167
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:55:00 -
[79] - Quote
Your repeated use of the phrase "I want" kind of tells the tale for me...
As in: "I want to rat with a Titan." |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:39:00 -
[80] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Drakarin wrote:I like the fact no one has yet to provide a valid reason why my alternative suggestion wouldn't work for capital stargate travel.
If I want to take the risk, so be it. The worse that can happen is that I die and you guys get a capital kill mail, why the hell are you fighting against that? What's the point of providing a "valid" reason if you won't listen to the advice already posted. Most probably don't feel like providing such reasons because they doubt you will read it or view it as valid. You have your mind set, go get your carrier and try it. And well, if you show similar stubbornness, you will argue against any "valid" reason by simply being stubborn and saying it isn't valid. Also, this is not the forum for discussing new features or changes to mechanics. If you wish to put forth a suggestion for how.carriers could travel through a stargate, try the new features forum. We've all told you that in the least you need a cyno to move the ship from system to system. Either get a cyno alt or friends who will help. Of that displeased you, go to the new features board and try to get the rules changed. If all you want is the risk of losing an expensive ship, go try a pirate faction battleship. Anything else is just wasting time at this point.
Faction ships are weak. Low effective HP, compared to a capital carrier. Ya, a carrier is slower, but it's far more menacing and I imagine more fun to use. It's just a guess, since I haven't flown one yet, but this is only a game. I don't care about taking a risk and I certainly am not trying to win anything or become a god of killmails. That's not fun for me.
I think I will make another thread in revelation of this absurd stargate mechanic though.
Orlacc wrote:Your repeated use of the phrase "I want" kind of tells the tale for me...
As in: "I want to rat with a Titan."
When you provide a solution so that it does not affect anyone else but you still get what you want, I see nothing wrong. |
|
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
74
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:50:00 -
[81] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:When you provide a solution so that it does not affect anyone else but you still get what you want, I see nothing wrong.
What is wrong is that banning carriers from stargates is a deliberate balance choice. If you don't like that choice, either get a cyno alt like every other capital pilot, or accept that you aren't going to be able to do this particular stupid and suicidal thing. Or just buy your carrier and self destruct it immediately, which will produce the same end result but without forcing some poor programmer to change the gate code to accommodate you. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 17:57:00 -
[82] - Quote
Denying capitals from using Stargates simultaneously or within a short period of time from each other is a balance decision, absolutely.
To outright deny them all indefinitely is just lazy. |
Emiko Luan
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
65
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 18:51:00 -
[83] - Quote
People said thanatos repeatedly -_-
Either way carriers are not menacing except as super logistics.
It's funny how you want to change the sandbox to suit you, when it would make it worse for others (slow jumping of caps through gates)
Yes a sandbox lets you use a ship for something it wasn't meant to be used for, but you can't ALSO expect it to be very effective. One of the "effectiveness" stats on a carrier is the jumpdrive/no startgate balance.
You don't solo mission in a Scimitar or an Onyx either, even though it's physically possible.
Think of it like trying to fit an aircraft carrier up a river. EVE has never been solo friendly, it just tolerates solo activities.
+welcome to my world+ http://venomzer0.deviantart.com |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
481
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 19:07:00 -
[84] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:I like the fact no one has yet to provide a valid reason why my alternative suggestion wouldn't work for capital stargate travel.
Ok, fine.
Capitals are meant to move by cyno because the beacon lights to the entire system, basically broadcasting to anyone interested that a capital may be entering. This is intentional. Obviously, gate jumps don't light up a system the same way.
In fact, cynos are meant to provide tactical points at which combat can/should occur. Without the beacon, that doesn't happen, and that's bad.
As for why a gate timer wouldn't work so well... you do realize that all it would take to tackle a cynoless cap would be to jump your own cap through before your gank, right? Silly carrier reapproaches gate only to have a Moros jump through and siege.
Bottom line is that cyno travel was put in place for a reason. Capital travel without cynos means no cynos are lit and there's no beacon showing incoming capitals. Gate travel would also limit the effectiveness of cyno jammers, which are rather a big deal in null. Incursions also cyno jam systems, which presumably is also a fully intended mechanic to limit investment of capital ships on those fronts.
So no, I don't think your timer idea really solves anything, and yes I do think it creates more problems than you realize.
Look, it's been said many, many times already: just get yourself a damn cyno alt and go for it. Buddy program one and you can have it up in less than week for the price of a single plex. If you decide it's something you want to stick with either keep the account or gang up with some other people to make it work for you. But at the very least, you ought to try it the way it works now before you propose massive changes.
|
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
47
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 19:14:00 -
[85] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:Denying capitals from using Stargates simultaneously or within a short period of time from each other is a balance decision, absolutely.
To outright deny them all indefinitely is just lazy. you can petition to CCP, none of us gives a f what you think is balance.
thanny is the best carrier for what you want, anything can tackle you and you won't be able to kill them, you can't jump gate, and you need cyno to move out of your current system.
all are facts, accept it or stfu |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 20:24:00 -
[86] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Drakarin wrote:I like the fact no one has yet to provide a valid reason why my alternative suggestion wouldn't work for capital stargate travel. Ok, fine. Capitals are meant to move by cyno because the beacon lights to the entire system, basically broadcasting to anyone interested that a capital may be entering. This is intentional. Obviously, gate jumps don't light up a system the same way. In fact, cynos are meant to provide tactical points at which combat can/should occur. Without the beacon, that doesn't happen, and that's bad. As for why a gate timer wouldn't work so well... you do realize that all it would take to tackle a cynoless cap would be to jump your own cap through before your gank, right? Silly carrier reapproaches gate only to have a Moros jump through and siege. Bottom line is that cyno travel was put in place for a reason. Capital travel without cynos means no cynos are lit and there's no beacon showing incoming capitals. Gate travel would also limit the effectiveness of cyno jammers, which are rather a big deal in null. Incursions also cyno jam systems, which presumably is also a fully intended mechanic to limit investment of capital ships on those fronts. So no, I don't think your timer idea really solves anything, and yes I do think it creates more problems than you realize. Look, it's been said many, many times already: just get yourself a damn cyno alt and go for it. Buddy program one and you can have it up in less than week for the price of a single plex. If you decide it's something you want to stick with either keep the account or gang up with some other people to make it work for you. But at the very least, you ought to try it the way it works now before you propose massive changes.
I think you may have misunderstood me. I was never proposing that cynos and jump drives be removed. Those will still function, and to move more than 2 capitals in any sane amount of time that would be the only way to go about doing it. Make the timer every 30 minutes for 1 capital, per stargate. No problem. It can be long, as long as it's possible for just one to slip through every now and again. It's not totally unreasonable is it?
I guess I'll have to get an alt, but man. Having to compromise immersion to just function normally after years of playing the game. That's not really cool.
It's hard when EvE is the only hardcore persistent MMORPG on the market. Certainly the only one involving spaceships.. it's hard when this is true and it tends to reject your playstyle. Frustration tends to build up in me, I'm sorry if I might come across as cold or rude. I don't mean that. I just like going at it alone, and when the only game close to what you want doesn't like that playstyle much it can mess with your head.
|
Mr Ranger
Nullsec Pimps Associated Apocalypse Now.
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 22:29:00 -
[87] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:
I think you may have misunderstood me. I was never proposing that cynos and jump drives be removed. Those will still function, and to move more than 2 capitals in any sane amount of time that would be the only way to go about doing it. Make the timer every 30 minutes for 1 capital, per stargate. No problem. It can be long, as long as it's possible for just one to slip through every now and again. It's not totally unreasonable is it?
I guess I'll have to get an alt, but man. Having to compromise immersion to just function normally after years of playing the game. That's not really cool.
It's hard when EvE is the only hardcore persistent MMORPG on the market. Certainly the only one involving spaceships.. it's hard when this is true and it tends to reject your playstyle. Frustration tends to build up in me, I'm sorry if I might come across as cold or rude. I don't mean that. I just like going at it alone, and when the only game close to what you want doesn't like that playstyle much it can mess with your head.
How do you decide which captial jumps if two capitals attempt to use the gate at the same time, is it 1 jump/30 min per way. Can i jump one way and someone else jump back the other? How does it help you if someone else who is soloing in a carrier in the same system uses the gate before you do, now you are stuck waiting 30 min before you can even try to move, not to mention he will want to come back in system after he is done so will be waiting on the other side. Your solution doesnt really fix the problem you seem to have, which there is no problem, you can solo carrier all you want without leaving system. If you want to move, get friends or alts. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
166
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 22:43:00 -
[88] - Quote
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:Drakarin wrote:If you can explain to me what reason there is that would validate complete denial of stargate use for capitals, I'm perfectly open to hearing it. As long as there is a timer on each stargate preventing more than one capital from jumping through every 5 to 10 minutes, I can't think of a good reason.
I am genuinely curious to know if there is one. I am not saying the game should be broken or severely changed to suit my needs. I merely pointing out an effective solution that would allow for both parties to be satisfied without penalty. Have you ever taken a really large poop? The kind that strains your rubbery ring-piece to the snapping point, and makes you feel like you're giving birth to an adult Shaquille O'Neal who's punching his way out of your bowels? That's why carriers can't fit through stargates. Seven years since reading about the infamous impoc incident, thinking that was just the coolest thing ever, and immediately signing up for an eve trial.
And you are still making me lol ^^
Drakarin wrote:I guess I'll have to get an alt, but man. Having to compromise immersion to just function normally after years of playing the game. That's not really cool. ahahahahaha, AN alt? If you're serious about running l5's you're gonna need 2 or 3 of them. In case you missed it before, you'll get less than a 50% hit rate on l5 missions, they'll give you gated ones you can't take a carrier on. You'll need to be pulling missions from multiple char's if you want to chain l5's the same way you would chain l4's, I'd also really recommend having one of them go gung-ho on social skills so you can reject a good amount of missions even when in reject cool down.
btw I wouldn't really call this 'function normally', I'd call this min-maxed cashwhoring endgame for a solo player. There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Duchess Starbuckington
Starbuckington Manor
206
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 23:49:00 -
[89] - Quote
Carriers are not designed to be solo ships. Stop crying and accept it. I mean what next, are you gonna burst into tears over the fact the Megathron isn't designed for cargo hauling or something? |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
88
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 00:13:00 -
[90] - Quote
bring back AOE DD |
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Reppyk
The Black Shell
128
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Posted - 2012.05.23 00:18:00 -
[91] - Quote
Denuo Secus wrote:Freighters and Jump freighters are the only capitals which can use gates. Technically, the orca is a capital ship.
Drakarin wrote:With the new drone damage modules coming out, as well as more skill points into drones, that should not be a problem unless you brought along 20 battleships and 5 HICs. What ? Any active battleship with a bonus (rokh, mael, hyperion, abaddon) can tank a carrier (until you run out of cap boosters).
Drakarin wrote:Yep, makes sense that a multi billion isk ship can't kill one small tackle ship eventually. I think you missed the titan memo and all the goon tears lol.
This thread is one of the best I have ever read. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
258
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Posted - 2012.05.23 01:00:00 -
[92] - Quote
penifSMASH wrote:bring back AOE DD You'd like that, wouldn't you? Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. (Link was wrong, now fixed) |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
453
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Posted - 2012.05.23 01:30:00 -
[93] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:They are forcing me to either have an alt, which I refuse to on the grounds that it's 100% cheating, or have friends, which defeats the point in this case. I want to go solo.
roflmao
Look at this. Just look at it. |
Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
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Posted - 2012.05.23 02:06:00 -
[94] - Quote
Mr Ranger wrote:Drakarin wrote:
I think you may have misunderstood me. I was never proposing that cynos and jump drives be removed. Those will still function, and to move more than 2 capitals in any sane amount of time that would be the only way to go about doing it. Make the timer every 30 minutes for 1 capital, per stargate. No problem. It can be long, as long as it's possible for just one to slip through every now and again. It's not totally unreasonable is it?
I guess I'll have to get an alt, but man. Having to compromise immersion to just function normally after years of playing the game. That's not really cool.
It's hard when EvE is the only hardcore persistent MMORPG on the market. Certainly the only one involving spaceships.. it's hard when this is true and it tends to reject your playstyle. Frustration tends to build up in me, I'm sorry if I might come across as cold or rude. I don't mean that. I just like going at it alone, and when the only game close to what you want doesn't like that playstyle much it can mess with your head.
How do you decide which captial jumps if two capitals attempt to use the gate at the same time, is it 1 jump/30 min per way. Can i jump one way and someone else jump back the other? How does it help you if someone else who is soloing in a carrier in the same system uses the gate before you do, now you are stuck waiting 30 min before you can even try to move, not to mention he will want to come back in system after he is done so will be waiting on the other side. Your solution doesnt really fix the problem you seem to have, which there is no problem, you can solo carrier all you want without leaving system. If you want to move, get friends or alts.
Well my solution does not make it easy for me to move about through different systems, it just makes it possible alone and without an alt; without destabilizing null sec sov systems or anything since it would take forever for an actual feel of capitals to travel that way.
Both people get what they want so I don't really see an issue with it.
As for the mechanics, whoever the server receives a packet from first goes through, the other person is denied. It's 30 minutes per stargate but not on both sides, just the individual stargate. So I could go through, and come back once every 30 minutes as long as no other capital ships use it. And, let's be honest, even if it were possible to use a stargate I doubt many would, so it would rarely be an issue for me. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
78
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Posted - 2012.05.23 02:25:00 -
[95] - Quote
Drakarin wrote:Both people get what they want so I don't really see an issue with it.
We've already explained the issues, you just don't want to accept that "it is a deliberate balance decision to make it impossible to move capital ships solo" is the answer.
Anyway, let's say that CCP decides to have pity on you and allow an occasional capital ship through a gate. Now they need to add code do:
1) Restrict the use of the gate with your timer.
2) Detect ship classes and prevent capitals from using any gate into highsec.
3) Detect ship classes and prevent capitals from using any gate into a system where a cyno jamming effect exists (which is not a permanent thing, so you can't just set the go/no-go flag once on patch day).
4) Detect the maximum jump range with your ship and skills and prevent you from entering a gate to a system that you couldn't jump to (some gates connect systems separated by a longer distance than a capital ship can move in a single jump) so that you don't gain any advantage over the cyno alt.
5) Detect that you used a gate in a capital ship and remove your cap, so you can't, say, jump through a gate to attack a camp on the other side and enter the fight with a huge advantage over the (hypothetical) carrier that jumped into the same camp through a cyno.
Now, once CCP has done all that work (and probably more to address balance issues I'm missing), instead of spending that time on things that actually matter, what do we gain? The ability to jump a carrier un-scouted through a gate and die shamefully. Sorry, but this is not a productive use of time. |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
20
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Posted - 2012.05.23 02:41:00 -
[96] - Quote
No alt character here, although this is merely for the immersion [dust 514 character doesn't count as an alt].
I used to have a carrier and it was a mistake to skill for one [maybe if I see one without a pilot the skill will come in handy], but the problem for me was that it was just so slow. Since then I have owned multiple tech 3's [although I have been ship spinning the last year really].
Oh and I am a solo player too [but an RPer who hates mission running etc] which makes hauling a carrier around a pain. |
Gorenaire
Theosophical Society
13
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Posted - 2012.05.23 11:04:00 -
[97] - Quote
please proceed to Amamake or Old Man Star, I heard they have a lot of lvl 4 agents down there in low sec.
What could go wrong with doing missions in low sec in a carrier ? and dont forget to put faction/officer mods on it if you can .
If someone shows up on your site, just insta warp to the next gate and jump.
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Drakarin
Omnitech Corporation Wonder Kids
8
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Posted - 2012.05.23 17:04:00 -
[98] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:Drakarin wrote:Both people get what they want so I don't really see an issue with it. We've already explained the issues, you just don't want to accept that "it is a deliberate balance decision to make it impossible to move capital ships solo" is the answer. Anyway, let's say that CCP decides to have pity on you and allow an occasional capital ship through a gate. Now they need to add code do: 1) Restrict the use of the gate with your timer. 2) Detect ship classes and prevent capitals from using any gate into highsec. 3) Detect ship classes and prevent capitals from using any gate into a system where a cyno jamming effect exists (which is not a permanent thing, so you can't just set the go/no-go flag once on patch day). 4) Detect the maximum jump range with your ship and skills and prevent you from entering a gate to a system that you couldn't jump to (some gates connect systems separated by a longer distance than a capital ship can move in a single jump) so that you don't gain any advantage over the cyno alt. 5) Detect that you used a gate in a capital ship and remove your cap, so you can't, say, jump through a gate to attack a camp on the other side and enter the fight with a huge advantage over the (hypothetical) carrier that jumped into the same camp through a cyno. Now, once CCP has done all that work (and probably more to address balance issues I'm missing), instead of spending that time on things that actually matter, what do we gain? The ability to jump a carrier un-scouted through a gate and die shamefully. Sorry, but this is not a productive use of time.
You act as if I am the only person it would benefit. I'm sure other capital pilots would use it here and there too. Of course, CCP cannot devote too many resources to a game improvement that few would use, but every now and then? Sure. The minority can't be the focus but to completely ignore them all the time, that's not good.
I am not without reason though, of course if coding in this change truly was difficult beyond what you'd assume as a laymen I can accept that. I honestly doubt know, but I doubt anyone else does besides a CCP dev.
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Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
88
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Posted - 2012.05.23 17:18:00 -
[99] - Quote
CCP could let caps use stargates if they wanted.
Not allowing it is a deliberate balance choice, much like not giving drones to nagas. |
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