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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
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Posted - 2009.07.08 14:05:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Kerdrak
Originally by: Jarne Edited by: Jarne on 07/07/2009 09:27:33 Reprocessing one large rigs should yield 5 medium ones. Reprocessing one medium rig should yield 5 small ones. Reprocessing a small rig should yield whatever reprocessing a normal rig nowadays would (divided by 25, of course).
Edit: Forgot, why - to avoid the new ~150 BPOs...
This, no more BPOs please.
This sounds like very plausible idea.
More rigs is more BPO clutter for no real gain. I doubt anyone has fun re-researching what is basically old rigs.
More rigs means worse market coverage outside of hubs.
Pushing people into Jita for T3 mods is enough, do not make smaller markets even worse with new rigs.
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Tadesae
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Posted - 2009.07.08 16:03:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Forge Lag
Originally by: Kerdrak
Originally by: Jarne Edited by: Jarne on 07/07/2009 09:27:33 Reprocessing one large rigs should yield 5 medium ones. Reprocessing one medium rig should yield 5 small ones. Reprocessing a small rig should yield whatever reprocessing a normal rig nowadays would (divided by 25, of course).
Edit: Forgot, why - to avoid the new ~150 BPOs...
This, no more BPOs please.
This sounds like very plausible idea.
More rigs is more BPO clutter for no real gain. I doubt anyone has fun re-researching what is basically old rigs.
More rigs means worse market coverage outside of hubs.
Pushing people into Jita for T3 mods is enough, do not make smaller markets even worse with new rigs.
I think you may be right about the coverage. They could simplify the plan a little if they just made one new rig type, Call it small and strap them on frigs and cruisers with about 1/4 of the salvage requirements. Rebalancing the existing rigs could also help the prices of the standard rigs by making some of the lesser used salvage more usable. I don't think rigs should be quite as cheap as they've been proposing. just making them more resonable for frigs and cruisers is enough.
Also, tabing the existing bpo's sounds like a better plan than making new bpo's. Cutting back to one new type would help either way.
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Repdo
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Posted - 2009.07.08 16:12:00 -
[93]
If this idea will be realized like described in blog, I don't see a reason to introduce new BPO's for small and medium rigs. And I can show you why. If we take for numbers of some salvaged materials for large rigs as 110 for non researched BPO, we have 22 of this materials for medium and 4.4 for small. Answering a question "do we need some ME research for such BPO?" I could say that it could be done for large and medium but have no reasons to do it for small. If so, what is the reason to introduce "perfet from start" BPO into the game? Also, taking into account, that most of rigs need less that 100 of SM to be build, question became more actual. BTW some useful information regarding this are available here
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5pinDizzy
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.08 17:27:00 -
[94]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 08/07/2009 17:35:59
What would've been cool but disruptive;
Make all current blueprints and rigs count as small, reduce the materials needed.
Makes a small rig.
Build two small rigs and have an ability to merge them together, making a medium rig.
Two medium rigs merge together to make a large rig.
I would've loved something like that.
Doesn't feel so controlling and doesn't divide the rig market into little alienated groups so much.
Oops, I just bothered to read back in the thread, seems someones already come up with something similar, sign me up to that please.
Anyway.
CCP Chronatis;
1. Find a way around adding that stupid amount of pointless bpo's (Rig merging, rig processing into smaller parts seem a perfectly good idea)
2. Don't make them so ridiculously cheap that they become an absolute necessity to fit to ship rather than a reasonable upgrade.
Fulfill one and two and I'll be happy with this upcoming patch.
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Max Hardcase
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.07.08 17:54:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Max Hardcase on 08/07/2009 18:00:05 One also wonders how they are gonna handle invention for medium and small rigs ....5x and 25x the runs on BPC's ? Realise that you cant really split invention cost because of the decryptors and datacores ( since you use 2+2 datacores). Gonna get really usefull when you get a 50 run medium bpc or a 250 run small bpc......
I think the more usefull way is to let producers decide what they want at the actual manufacturing phase.
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Blazde
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.07.08 17:55:00 -
[96]
Can't say I approve of this. Frigates and Cruisers (etc..) shouldn't be purely the cheapo noob option. If you enjoy flying an interceptor because you're good at it (or even if you're not), and you're rich, you should be able to throw lots of cash at your ship and pimp it up nicely just like battleship/capital pilots can. There's already an unavoidable limit of slots to plug faction gear into so rigs were one of the few options to really make a difference. Forcing frigates to be cheap seems too much like pandering to the "noob = frigate, experienced guy = battleship, veteran = capital" mentality.
I'm happy to see rigs made more accessible but please don't take away the option to really properly pimp a luxury frigate. Just because the hull is relatively cheap doesn't mean the entire fit needs to be (and in the case of eg. t2 CR/BC vs t1 BS the hull isn't even cheaper).
I'd suggest something like: - Small rigs get 1/3rd the bonus of current rigs, and are only fitable on FR/DE. - Medium rigs get half the bonus of current rigs, and are only fitable on FR/DE/CR/BC/Ind. - Large rigs are fitable on everything for full current bonus.
But call them something like Light/Moderate/Full instead of Small/Medium/Large so it makes more sense. Factor of 5 in material cost is just fine.
As someone above said, give us more sandbox, don't take away our buckets and spades. _
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5pinDizzy
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.07.08 18:02:00 -
[97]
Blazde : Don't worry too much, I'm thinking scaled small tech 2 frigate rigs will probably be brought down from uber super expensive to become reasonably affordable for someone who really wants to pimp their frigate.
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Max Hardcase
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.07.08 18:11:00 -
[98]
And another thing that comes to mind : no to salvage component alchemy.
Just add a small chance of getting a single T2 component per salvaging skill level to *all* player shipwrecks. Something like 0.2% per level to cruisers and up. Frigs maybe 0.02%.
Just because its a tech 1 ship doesnt mean it blows up differently. And it lets your skill level actually mean something. May we suggest further specialised skills to further improve these odds which would help to define salvaging a bit farther.
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Shidhe
Minmatar The Babylon5 Consortuim
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Posted - 2009.07.08 18:26:00 -
[99]
Multi sized rigs sound good - I'm planning my stiletto already...
Please, no to high sec reactors for fixing salvage - low sec or 0.0 only please (too much Tachyon radiation for my backyard). Seriously, this will go against getting people into low sec or 0.0.
Transport of rigged ships is a mega pain - glad to know that is being looked at.
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Nose Snot
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Posted - 2009.07.08 21:58:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Chi Quan
Originally by: Sturmwolke [There are currently 77 rigs BPO in game. The proposed rig multiscaling will bring it to a total 77 x 3 = 231 BPO !!
...I'd suggest coding the current rigs BPO so that you will have tabs for Small/Medium and Large. Saves you the trouble later when you decide to multiscale something else.
agreed 101% either that or introduce some possibility to slice rigs down to smaller parts without the need extra bpos.
Sturmwolke: you forgot the t2 variants, so 231x2=462 rig prints
Just change the production output of all rigs to 3. You can then either leave the game mechanics as is, or make large ships take 3 rigs to fit 1 slot, med ships take 2, and small ships take 1.
Adding a ton of more bps is the worst "fix" to this issue.
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Raimo
Gallente Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.07.09 07:05:00 -
[101]
About rigs, as currently some of the best rigs to use are the non-stacking armor/ shield HP rigs this will surely be an EHP buff... I don't think it's necessarily a good thing.
A *great* way to counter this would be to simultaneously remove *all* rig stacking so that rigs just stack with each other! (or not at all even)
Surely some stat tweaks should be made for balance but this would help the less effective rigs like the weapon, resist and speed rigs to be viable again...
Also at the same time some rig drawbacks and calibrations should be looked at, IMO the weapon rigs are way too hard on fitting (both calibrationa and the PG/CPU drawbacks), also, the armor resist rig speed drawback is too harsh, for trimarks etc it is ok IMO.
(Of course tweak drop rates as well to balance the prices of the armor/ shield resist rigs)
Mostly not my ideas btw. --- WOLFY is recruiting!
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Robot Robot
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Posted - 2009.07.09 16:31:00 -
[102]
Incidentally, I've fleshed out my earlier suggestion regarding increasing T2 salvage drop rates and given it a topic of its own over in Features and Ideas.
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Project 001
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Posted - 2009.07.10 01:35:00 -
[103]
I know there are issues with trying to make a single blueprint produce multiple objects, but there may be a work-around.
How about only keeping large rig blueprints, but using refine/reprocess to break apart large rigs into 5 medium rigs. Each medium rig could refine/reprocess into 5 small rigs. It will call for no additional blueprints, achieve the desired price points, and be easily incorporated into existing production schemes.
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Hamish Grayson
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2009.07.10 05:10:00 -
[104]
I can haz missile explosion velocity rigs? ============================================
It is said the warrior's is the twofold way of pen and sword |
Nekopyat
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Posted - 2009.07.10 18:36:00 -
[105]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 08/07/2009 17:47:05 Build three small rigs and have an ability to merge them together, making a medium rig.
Two medium rigs merge together to make a large rig.
Agreed. This would be awesome and would help move away from the rather repetitive single-layer construction T1 stuff uses.
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Sturmwolke
Genyosha Legion
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Posted - 2009.07.12 10:57:00 -
[106]
I've just logged into SISI checking these rigs out.
This should've been obvious, but you may want to correct the Fitting desc for all the rigs. There are no explicit fitting desc for Large, Med and Small rigs that tells you what ship classes it applies to.
Leaving it out and having players guessing (even though it's common sense) leads to confusion. |
Daftny Litchinova
RIC ACADEMY OF MINING AND ASTROGEOLOGY
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Posted - 2009.07.12 18:22:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Princess Misha
Alchemy + reverse emgineering + salvage conversion IN low sec or 0.0 plz.
This is the second post about wanting this salvage conversion in low/0.0 sec only...
Can you guys stop whining about not enough stuff for you in low/0.0? It wont push more players in there anyway; players that want to stay safe and don't go into PvP won't go if you put more stuff in low/0.0 sec, they will only think that if they wants some special things, they have to go into PvP risk and may end up leaving the game.
I heard many players in low/0.0 sec telling how cool it was and how the isk was great, and that the real game was there (they would never return in highsec) so I believe you guys have not much to whine about?
As for myself, I enjoyed highsec for awhile and am now considering more and more about low/0.0 - its good to leave the choice to players instead of forcing them if they wants all the goodies.
As for the multi sized rigs and the other rigs adjustments; ITS ALL GREAT IDEA I'm looking forward to this mini expension!
keep posting dev blogs!!
*If you like my sig and want one, PM with a brief description of what you would like! |
girlyminer
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Posted - 2009.07.14 07:26:00 -
[108]
What size rigs would mining barges use?
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Wideen
Warped Mining Strip Mining Club
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Posted - 2009.07.14 11:57:00 -
[109]
I absolutely love these ideas and support them in full!
This will add variety to the game and rigs will not be for the rich solely. One must remember that as an upcoming pilot flying a frig/destroyer etc it's neigh impossible to be able to afford it, not to mention a waste with the current prices.
Pls implement this FAST!
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Wideen
Warped Mining Strip Mining Club
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Posted - 2009.07.14 11:57:00 -
[110]
Originally by: girlyminer What size rigs would mining barges use?
my guess is medium
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adriaans
Amarr Ankaa.
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Posted - 2009.07.14 13:26:00 -
[111]
Edited by: adriaans on 14/07/2009 13:28:09 sounds great :D and if those prices stay it will actually be kinda close to cost effective :D
ps. where the can buy trimarks for 15 mil they're usually around 25m in rens....:/
edit: PLEASE no more rig bpo's.... My alt has over 500 bpo's without counting duplicates already.... -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.14 15:14:00 -
[112]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy 2. Don't make them so ridiculously cheap that they become an absolute necessity to fit to ship rather than a reasonable upgrade, rigs for frigates costing less than a million isk each a little worrying.
I can't agree with that. T1 (Large) rigs for battleships currently cost much less than the hull itself. If the rig scaling works appropriately, so that fitting rigs to smaller ships is as feasible as fitting them to larger ships, then for perfect scaling the rigs should cost less than the frigate hull itself (i.e. well under 300k ISK). Now I know that since modules costs don't scale, the cost of fitting modules to frigates is relatively higher than with battleships, which gives a bit of leeway.
But if you're worried about small rigs being less than a million ISK, it sounds to me like you're saying that you don't want rigs on frigates to be as common as rigs on battleships. CCP have made this change because they do want to see that. Think about it now - how often would you take out a battleship without rigs? Proper scaling means the same should hold for T1 frigates, such that you'll almost always rig them unless you're going on a suicide run.
Originally by: Blazde I'd suggest something like: - Small rigs get 1/3rd the bonus of current rigs, and are only fitable on FR/DE.
No, rigs are already inherently scaled, since they all give percentage increases. Small ships are already smaller, so e.g. a 15% boost to EHP is a smaller absolute amount, and is appropriate. What are you really going to achieve by increasing a frigate's armour amount by 5%?
Quote: As someone above said, give us more sandbox, don't take away our buckets and spades.
Giving smaller ships the ability to fit rigs is giving more buckets and spades to everyone. I expanded on this earlier in the post, so I won't go into it here, but feasibility of rigging more ships = more viable (cost-effective) fits/roles = more sandbox.
Plus you can still fit T2 small rigs for 1/25th of the current price if you do want to spend a bit more for a bit more edge. Faction/deadspace modules should sate your spendlust too.
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xerxes8472
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Posted - 2009.07.17 03:40:00 -
[113]
Why not have a new ship class just for salvaging that has one of these reactors that can convert t1 salvage into t2 salvage give it salvage and tractor beam bonuses per lvl and call it a salvage yacht besides these stations with these reactors will be packed and prolly end up like research slots filled everywhere you go ....and we are still waiting on tractor beam drones and salvage drones, just think about it.
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5pinDizzy
Amarr SMS Fleet Services
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Posted - 2009.07.17 19:44:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Gartel Reiman
Originally by: 5pinDizzy 2. Don't make them so ridiculously cheap that they become an absolute necessity to fit to ship rather than a reasonable upgrade, rigs for frigates costing less than a million isk each a little worrying.
I can't agree with that. T1 (Large) rigs for battleships currently cost much less than the hull itself. If the rig scaling works appropriately, so that fitting rigs to smaller ships is as feasible as fitting them to larger ships, then for perfect scaling the rigs should cost less than the frigate hull itself (i.e. well under 300k ISK). Now I know that since modules costs don't scale, the cost of fitting modules to frigates is relatively higher than with battleships, which gives a bit of leeway.
Well if you want it to scaled correctly with tech 1 frig prices you're probably going to be able to fully rig your first ship as a one day character with the 5,000 free isk you get.
As already said, even tech2 modules on the frigate will cost a lot more then the recommended prices of rigs.
The original point of rigs was that they were an expensive choice for people willing to go a stage further to get an edge, they don't change your ship at all they just make it do the same thing better.
If they're going to be made dirt cheap so there's no longer any question to not fit them then eveyones on the same field anyway. I'd rather they just get rid of rigs altogether to save me wasting my time having to bung some on a new ship if we're going down that route, because rigs aren't suited or too broken to go down that route as they are.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.07.17 23:01:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Typhado3 on 17/07/2009 23:01:32 been a long time I've hunted drones intentionally but wasn't t2 rig components one of the main rewards you get from killing faction drone spawns?
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ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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Kassa Daito
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Posted - 2009.07.23 02:57:00 -
[116]
Originally by: xerxes8472 these stations with these reactors will be packed and prolly end up like research slots filled everywhere you go
Ummmm... you realize he's most likely talking about addons to POSes in highsec and not NPC stations. POSes are limited only by your ability to find buyers willing to pay more than it costs you to research or produce it. ***************
Disclaimer: The above comments are generally my own opinions and do not necessarily represent those of my corporation or alliance. |
HeliosGal
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Posted - 2009.07.23 08:30:00 -
[117]
lave the small and medium t2 inventions as is for t2 rigs
Peeps i think CCP might be setting the ground for t3 rigs here. So no doubt costs will come down and then perhaps we might see class 1-3 sleeper sites begin to drop t3 rig bpcs and associated construction materials would go a long way to soaking up sleeper supply
Either that or make t2 rigs consume a mixture of existing t2 mats and t3 sleeper product outputs
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Bomberlocks
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Posted - 2009.07.23 22:58:00 -
[118]
I think the idea of scaled rigs is a good one, but that it also introduces yet another round of eve item mania into an already seriously unbalanced system. For instance, why do, say shield booster or armour reppers scale, but shield and armour hardeners don't? Hardeners don't cost a fortune, so that isn't critical, but the question remains.
What I do think the end result of this patch will be is that frigs, destys, cruisers, bcs and assault ships will now be rigged almost all the time as opposed to almost never in the past. Now, it'll no longer be a a big question whether or not to rig your AS, because adding three rigs for an extra 4 million is small fry compared to the price of the ship itself. HACs have always been so expensive that it's been worth it to rig them, just like it has been with BSes.
It's certainly going to make rifter and thrasher combat more fun though, and I for one will be getting as many as I can for my dozen odd rifters and thrashers in storage. |
Lutherial
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Posted - 2009.07.24 13:39:00 -
[119]
My 2 cents on the topic :)
In general its a great idea! As it gives more fitting options and possibilities to smaller craft.
Firstly make sure the rigs scale correctly between t1,t2 and t3 ships please.
Adding rig conversion has serious balancing issues! My suggestion would be to first only modify how tech2 salvage drops. Maybe even let it drop in more places. Like plex's in low-sec for example. (the ones you can scan out of onboard ship scanner)
Looking forward to rigging my rifter :D
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.07.26 08:53:00 -
[120]
Just make the salvage reactor only anchorable in lowsec, nullsec or w-space. T2 salvage should still be hard to come by.
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