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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1024
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Posted - 2012.05.21 15:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote: Only attacking enemy sites will yield LPs GÇô defending will not. Example: one Amarr enlisted pilot defending an Amarr site will not receive anything. The same Amarr pilot capturing a Minmatar site will be normally paid.
Any particular reason that reckless offensive behavior is encouraged over caring about your own space? I would have thought that defense would have an "advantage", especially when they need to uphold the system upgrades that they purchased with their precious LP.
Anyone know what the reasoning is behind this apparently needless complication? Was it for some balance reason that I just can't think of right now, or just one of those things to make Eve harder to explain to newbies? Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
763
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Posted - 2012.05.21 15:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
I went of out the house today. It was ace I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1977
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Posted - 2012.05.21 15:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Defensive plexing is its own reward (you get to keep your system upgrades)
Also, its easier and you have the npc's on your side.
Plus of course encourging "reckless aggressive behaviour" is kinda what game design is about.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
zama118
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
28
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Posted - 2012.05.21 16:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
you get LP for killing the people attacking, why reward you twice? |
Ayn Randy
Aura of Darkness Nulli Secunda
8
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Posted - 2012.05.21 16:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yeah, you get the incentive to earn LP by killing the attackers. Make more people PVP!! :D |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1024
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Posted - 2012.05.21 16:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Defensive plexing is its own reward (you get to keep your system upgrades)
Also, its easier and you have the npc's on your side.
Plus of course encourging "reckless aggressive behaviour" is kinda what game design is about.
Keeping system upgrades is not a real incentive for anyone except for those basing out of that system. Other than sheer goodwill and generosity, what encourages me to run defensive complexes in Vard, which I do not base out of? This sort of thing results in attack on the system being encouraged for more people than defense is encouraged for. My fear is that this will simply result in even less system upgrading, because, to be honest, what's the point?
I don't mind encouraging aggressive behavior, but I'm also thinking of the poor Amarr here. I want them to have reasons to fight for their systems, not just throw themselves pathetically at Minmatar systems they can't summon the numbers to capture. Taking candy from a baby is no fun.
Karn Dulake wrote:I went of out the house today. It was ace It's raining here, it sort of sucks outside. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1024
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 16:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
zama118 wrote:you get LP for killing the people attacking, why reward you twice? You get LP for killing the people defending, too. And honestly, the attackers usually have the upper hand, since they know exactly where the defender is going to warp into the plex.
Ed: your argument also doesn't work unless the attackers are using battleships, or T2/faction frigates/cruisers. There are a lot of T1 frigates, destroyers, and cruisers romping about FW space. There isn't really any LP incentive to kill a 1 mil ISK Rifter. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
TheBreadMuncher
Boxxed Up Industries EPIC Alliance
60
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Posted - 2012.05.21 16:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote: There isn't really any LP incentive to kill a 1 mil ISK Rifter.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you: The FW Carebear.
It's called SHINY KILLMAILS, bro. I only ever emerge from the shadows when my main is banned. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1026
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Posted - 2012.05.21 16:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
TheBreadMuncher wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote: There isn't really any LP incentive to kill a 1 mil ISK Rifter. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you: The FW Carebear. It's called SHINY KILLMAILS, bro. I don't follow. If I go into Anka in my Rifter or my Cormorant and start running minor sites, why would anyone shoot me or try to close the sites when they can just go to Hofjalgund and run their own sites?
I want fights, and am concerned that when attacking is encouraged over defending, all that will result in is attackers missing each other and complaining about the lack of PvP. I don't see how this is about being a "FW Carebear".
If you're talking about the killmails themselves being a motivation, that is a valid point. That is actually what motivates me. However, I am trying to think broader. If the "SHINY KILLMAILS" isn't motivating the Amarr enough to defend their space properly, what exactly will make them defend better after Inferno? Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
zama118
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
28
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Posted - 2012.05.21 16:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:zama118 wrote:you get LP for killing the people attacking, why reward you twice? You get LP for killing the people defending, too. And honestly, the attackers usually have the upper hand, since they know exactly where the defender is going to warp into the plex. Ed: your argument also doesn't work unless the attackers are using battleships, or T2/faction frigates/cruisers. There are a lot of T1 frigates, destroyers, and cruisers romping about FW space. There isn't really any LP incentive to kill a 1 mil ISK Rifter.
risk/reward...
attacking groups are rarely redefineing there numbers or ship types defending groups can define the numbers or ship types to easy win, least loss most LP gain
not always the case ofc, but in eve nothing ever is. but defending a system seems to have resons behind it with the new FW system as you put effort in to maintatin a system. in 0.0 you never get a reward for defending apart from the safety of the system. so FW should be the same.
also i expect FW to escilate now with larger ships being used a lot more (as the risk/reward is being meet) |
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1026
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Posted - 2012.05.21 16:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
zama118 wrote: attacking groups are rarely redefineing there numbers or ship types defending groups can define the numbers or ship types to easy win, least loss most LP gain
Well, it's not encouraging blobbing, because having too many people reduces the reward too much, so it's encouraging the defender to use gimmicky ships to counter a few specific attacker ships. This is only realistically possible if you had the ship pre-prepared, or were basing out of the same system. It's still a lot of effort compared to just slapping on a crappy fit and heading out to run a minor plex.
Keep in mind that 10k LP is what a 100 mil ISK solo kill pays out. Would you attack a T2-fit BC solo for a possible 10k LP payout (probably needing an equally expensive ship of your own), or go run a minor plex in a Thrasher for the same payout? You pointed out risk/reward. I'm pointing out that as is, it's broken.
zama118 wrote:in 0.0 you never get a reward for defending apart from the safety of the system. so FW should be the same. In 0.0 you have a ton of benefits to owning a system, ranging from system upgrades that actually make sense and are useful, to stations, to jump bridges, cyno jammers, e-peen, and other things.
zama118 wrote:also i expect FW to escilate now with larger ships being used a lot more (as the risk/reward is being meet)
I expect FW to downgrade to smaller/cheaper ships, or to Tengus farming major sites over and over.
Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
zama118
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
28
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Posted - 2012.05.21 17:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
well we are all entitled to our opinion
we will see who is right in a month or two |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
822
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Posted - 2012.05.21 17:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:I expect FW to downgrade to smaller/cheaper ships, or to Tengus farming major sites over and over.
FW are the new L4 missions? Or incusions maybe, though if you can solo some of the sites, more like anom ratting. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1026
|
Posted - 2012.05.21 18:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:I expect FW to downgrade to smaller/cheaper ships, or to Tengus farming major sites over and over.
FW are the new L4 missions? Or incusions maybe, though if you can solo some of the sites, more like anom ratting. Tengus are already all over the L4 FW missions. The mission showing up in local is NBD if you are already 100 km away, nobody can kill you solo, and you can just plain kill most/any ships that can catch you.
I assume this is how it will be with major plexes, too. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
426
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Posted - 2012.05.21 18:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
I don't think ccp minds if no one ever does defensive plexing. Systems will just continue to flip or be close to flipping. Then the side that is on the defensive will have the abiltiy to make a quick attack and try to flip a system.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
822
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Posted - 2012.05.21 18:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:I expect FW to downgrade to smaller/cheaper ships, or to Tengus farming major sites over and over.
FW are the new L4 missions? Or incusions maybe, though if you can solo some of the sites, more like anom ratting. Tengus are already all over the L4 FW missions. The mission showing up in local is NBD if you are already 100 km away, nobody can kill you solo, and you can just plain kill most/any ships that can catch you. I assume this is how it will be with major plexes, too. Cool. How much better is the isk/hr? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1026
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Posted - 2012.05.21 18:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:I expect FW to downgrade to smaller/cheaper ships, or to Tengus farming major sites over and over.
FW are the new L4 missions? Or incusions maybe, though if you can solo some of the sites, more like anom ratting. Tengus are already all over the L4 FW missions. The mission showing up in local is NBD if you are already 100 km away, nobody can kill you solo, and you can just plain kill most/any ships that can catch you. I assume this is how it will be with major plexes, too. Cool. How much better is the isk/hr? I don't do it in a Tengu, but in a Purifier, and even then not very often. At a leisurely pace, 100k LP per hour is a decent payout. At the mediocre LP to ISK conversion rate of 1000 ISK/LP, that is 100 mil ISK/hr. Tengus run the missions at least as fast as the bombers, and they don't need auxiliary support (a sig-tanking T1 frigate alt/friend) to complete some of the tougher missions. You can make stupid amounts of money that way. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
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