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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
34
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Posted - 2011.09.18 20:31:00 -
[61] - Quote
Didn't a CCP dev state in an interview that balance was boring, and a FOTM kept things interesting?
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Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
45
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Posted - 2011.09.18 21:06:00 -
[62] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Didn't a CCP dev state in an interview that balance was boring, and a FOTM kept things interesting?
depends on what kind of balancing you're looking for.
bad balancing is when everything's the same. good balancing is where every weapon has a "role" where it excels and doesn't step on other's "role".
bad balancing is extremely easy to do. good balancing is extremely hard to do. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Frau JeanYus
PsiTit Corp
0
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Posted - 2011.09.18 21:12:00 -
[63] - Quote
" after Christmas" 2013? Prolly |
Raw Matters
KRAUTZ RULEZ KRAUTZ-FEDERATION
6
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Posted - 2011.09.18 22:19:00 -
[64] - Quote
Have you ever had a Taranis in your back? I can tell you: Blasters hurt a lot! |
Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
3
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Posted - 2011.09.18 22:40:00 -
[65] - Quote
I agree that hybrids pretty much suck compared to others, but I wonder if the "balance" comes from the drone bonuses that most gallente ships get compared to the other races. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
45
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Posted - 2011.09.18 23:02:00 -
[66] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:Have you ever had a Taranis in your back? I can tell you: Blasters hurt a lot!
I think it's of general consensus that at the very least small blasters are good enough. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2011.09.19 01:44:00 -
[67] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:I agree that hybrids pretty much suck compared to others, but I wonder if the "balance" comes from the drone bonuses that most gallente ships get compared to the other races.
If halving your DPS in most situations is balance, then I suppose so. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Limitless Inc.
91
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Posted - 2011.09.19 02:39:00 -
[68] - Quote
Joelleaveek wrote:many Gallente agree
Heh. How about us Amarr and Minmatarians who fly with blasters all time and thinking they're pretty damn epic? Rails could really use some love yeah, but it'd be quite silly to boost blasters at present. |
Rykuss
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2011.09.19 02:57:00 -
[69] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Didn't a CCP dev state in an interview that balance was boring, and a FOTM kept things interesting?
That would be interesting, if balancing were done on a month by month basis. It gets pretty old after several years though. Can I have your vindicator? |
Alpheias
65
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Posted - 2011.09.20 16:08:00 -
[70] - Quote
Rykuss wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Didn't a CCP dev state in an interview that balance was boring, and a FOTM kept things interesting?
That would be interesting, if balancing were done on a month by month basis. It gets pretty old after several years though.
Could always ask Blizzard how it is working out for them.
GÖ½ When your ship gets blown to bits GÖ½ And you lose your Faction fits \Gÿ+/ Don't worry GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ½ GÖ¬ GÖ½ GÖ¬ Be Happy \Gÿ+/ |
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Large Collidable Object
morons.
217
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Posted - 2011.09.20 16:14:00 -
[71] - Quote
Rykuss wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Didn't a CCP dev state in an interview that balance was boring, and a FOTM kept things interesting?
That would be interesting, if balancing were done on a month by month basis. It gets pretty old after several years though.
Yeah - Soundwave stated the above at the Vegas convention. Whilst I agree on the imbalance bit, the FOTM could change every now and then - otherwise it's not FOTM.
Also, I don't think the OP was proposing to do monthly rebalances on all ships - just regular updates on some.
I for one would be happy if they only reworked one class of ships/turrets / expansion. That's enough to keep things interesting and allows younger players to get into the FOTM ships before they are outdated.
morons-áare recruiting. We're good at breeding! |
mkint
22
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Posted - 2011.09.20 16:20:00 -
[72] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:I agree that hybrids pretty much suck compared to others, but I wonder if the "balance" comes from the drone bonuses that most gallente ships get compared to the other races.
I've been thinking... what if to balance Gallente ships, CCP added Small and Medium sentry drones, and then made them so all sentries could move with the launching ship instead of being strictly stationary?
Gallente pilots would be able to fill in those middle ranges with drone damage, applying damage before being in blaster range or supplementing rail damage in the medium ranges. Would that overpower Gallente, or still leave them underpowered? How would you abuse that kind of drone mechanic? |
Joelleaveek
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.09.20 18:51:00 -
[73] - Quote
mkint wrote:Zifrian wrote:I agree that hybrids pretty much suck compared to others, but I wonder if the "balance" comes from the drone bonuses that most gallente ships get compared to the other races. I've been thinking... what if to balance Gallente ships, CCP added Small and Medium sentry drones, and then made them so all sentries could move with the launching ship instead of being strictly stationary? Gallente pilots would be able to fill in those middle ranges with drone damage, applying damage before being in blaster range or supplementing rail damage in the medium ranges. Would that overpower Gallente, or still leave them underpowered? How would you abuse that kind of drone mechanic?
So then i have these drones moving at the same speed an heading as the host ship. if i was in the opposing ship i would shoot these drones first. Then you would probably pull them in and i would go back to shooting you. Then you put the drones back out and so on and so forth. Until they're either all dead or you give up on them. Meanwhile i've stayed out of range this entire time and and you've done very little damage.
I think this isn't a good idea. I do think drones need a buff, but that's a whole other thread.
I believe that Gallente ships should be faster, like fastest in game. i think they shouldn't be very agile though. I think the need enough cap to burn to the target with an MWD and still have enough for the blasters and/or armor reppers. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
206
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Posted - 2011.09.20 19:03:00 -
[74] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:I agree that hybrids pretty much suck compared to others, but I wonder if the "balance" comes from the drone bonuses that most gallente ships get compared to the other races.
That's not a lot of comfort to Caldari Hybrid ships.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Alundil
The Unnamed. Novum Militis ExParte
8
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Posted - 2011.09.20 22:16:00 -
[75] - Quote
Bump because I love my hybrids (and have a ton of SP into them) and wish there were more useful |
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
114
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Posted - 2011.09.20 22:30:00 -
[76] - Quote
BIG BOOTY BLASTERS "Why can't I be different and original, like everybody else?" |
Christopher AET
Segmentum Solar
2
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Posted - 2011.09.21 00:06:00 -
[77] - Quote
In my opinion the only time where blasters have the advantage is as an ambush gank ship. Have a quicker mate lock a target down. you warp in in mega/hyperion/proteus at zero. Only then is its massive dps useful in killing an enemy before his buddies can respond. howevrr unless you get the drop on an enemy you will struggle.
Gallente ships do come into their own at the capital levels however |
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 01:24:00 -
[78] - Quote
Christopher AET wrote:the only time where blasters have the advantage is as an ambush gank ship. Have a quicker mate lock a target down. you warp in in mega/hyperion/proteus at zero. Only then is its massive dps useful in killing an enemy before his buddies can respond. howevrr unless you get the drop on an enemy you will struggle.
This ^
I've been wondering if anyone would point it out. If you're off-grid and a tackler can get in tight while providing a "warp to" point....a Blasterthron is murder in space. |
Captain Brickwalle
Predator's Inc.
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 18:34:00 -
[79] - Quote
It's almost as if there is a sort of mass amnesia regarding blasters during these arguments. Like no one remembers blasters too, have fall off and that, on bonused hull like gallente blaster boats, better fall off (relatively) than autocannons on most minmitar ships. With decent skills and null ammo a mega can project dps out to 40-50 km.
The next secret i: tracking enhancers > magnetic stabalizers. So if you have 3 lows upgrades you fit 2 TE and 1 magstab not 3magstab or not even 1te 2stab.
So in short the blasters aren't broken. The slowpoke ships with low CPU are the problem. I might even go so far as to suggest that t2 blaster amok have no tracking penalty or even boost it but apply some other affect like even MORE cap usage or affect the ship hull like t2 missiles. |
Crunchmeister
THORN Syndicate BricK sQuAD.
51
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Posted - 2011.09.21 19:04:00 -
[80] - Quote
CCP Zymurgist wrote:Also CCP Soundwave mentioned in an interview at PAX this year that, "After Christmas, there will probably be some changes pushed out to fix this issue." In response to a question about Hybrids.
I don't like the word "probably". That's kind of a universal "get out of jail free" card when used in that context. If hybrids do get a buff, then CCP can claim they came through on their promise.
Or (the more likely scenario) a year from now, when we're still asking for some hybrid loving and someone claims CCP lied about fixing hybrids referencing Soundwave's quote at PAX, CCP can "honestly" reply that there were no promises made and they only said it was probable that they'd look into fixing hybrids.
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Crunchmeister
THORN Syndicate BricK sQuAD.
51
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Posted - 2011.09.21 19:09:00 -
[81] - Quote
Captain Brickwalle wrote:It's almost as if there is a sort of mass amnesia regarding blasters during these arguments. Like no one remembers blasters too, have fall off and that, on bonused hull like gallente blaster boats, better fall off (relatively) than autocannons on most minmitar ships. With decent skills and null ammo a mega can project dps out to 40-50 km.
The next secret i: tracking enhancers > magnetic stabalizers. So if you have 3 lows upgrades you fit 2 TE and 1 magstab not 3magstab or not even 1te 2stab.
So in short the blasters aren't broken. The slowpoke ships with low CPU are the problem. I might even go so far as to suggest that t2 blaster amok have no tracking penalty or even boost it but apply some other affect like even MORE cap usage or affect the ship hull like t2 missiles.
Well, to hit past 25km with large blasters, you're using ammo that's about as deadly as someone throwing rocks at your ship. Compare that to an Amarr BS with pulse lasers and Scorch that can hit out WAY farther than that for way more damage. Yes, blasters do more theoretical damage, providing you're actually at optimal. Outside of optimal, it's hard to track stuff, and too far within optimal, you can't land a shot because it seems to be negative tracking. And I think there's a far too wide selection of hybrid ammo, really. Back in the days of the 200+ km sniper fleets, maybe. But now with the game mechanic changes, most of those ammo types are as obsolete as the platforms they're being fired from. |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2011.09.21 20:56:00 -
[82] - Quote
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:...
But Gallente have really fallen too far in recent years. Our famous and beloved drone boats (Vexor, Myrm, Domi, Ishtar) are the only things left that have any respect at all, and that, not much. Our blasterboats, which used to be feared across the galaxy, are now laughing stocks. Don't forget the Eos which got its kok chopped off along with the Myrm when their drone bandwidth values were hacked down to 75. No more dropping 5 Ogre IIs or sentries.
I remember starting off my EVE career as a Gallente pilot and getting into my first Myrmidon. I remember hearing about the feared damps of the Arazu. I recall tales of the Eos and how it owned. I thought that I had made an OK choice for my race.
I also remember when the Myrm's drone bay and [the Arazu's] damps were hit hard by the nerf bat. As clear as day, I recall asking why a race's specific bonuses were getting pared down. After all, what makes having races relevant while flying in space if everybody's ships are Milquetoast with little differentiation. So, I cross-trained amarr, caldari and minmatar because gallente were given the shaft. So much for my dreams of progressing into and having fun with the higher-level Gallente ships.
As an aside, I also recall when the Falcon's range bonus was nerfed and questioned that game design decision, too. I recall bum-rushing Falcon pilots with interceptors and 9/10 times, the recon pilot would GTFO.
I am a believer in unique and powerful distinctions between races. Enable players to devise the means to remove "because of Falcon" from the equation. Do not nanny-state the game, but rather allow the sandbox nature to balance itself. EVE is filled with ingenious PvP minds who will make use of and find counters to racial specific bonuses with no intervention from CCP. Honest. 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284286 |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2011.09.21 21:04:00 -
[83] - Quote
Crunchmeister wrote:CCP Zymurgist wrote:Also CCP Soundwave mentioned in an interview at PAX this year that, "After Christmas, there will probably be some changes pushed out to fix this issue." In response to a question about Hybrids. I don't like the word "probably". That's kind of a universal "get out of jail free" card when used in that context. If hybrids do get a buff, then CCP can claim they came through on their promise. Or (the more likely scenario) a year from now, when we're still asking for some hybrid loving and someone claims CCP lied about fixing hybrids referencing Soundwave's quote at PAX, CCP can "honestly" reply that there were no promises made and they only said it was probable that they'd look into fixing hybrids. This is par-for-the-course in business-speak. No publicly speaking business person talks in absolutes in order to be able to worm out of tough situations down the road. Just the way it is.
284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284286 |
Holy One
SniggWaffe
12
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Posted - 2011.09.22 11:12:00 -
[84] - Quote
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:IMHO it's not so much the hybrids, it's more the hulls. The guns themselves aren't that bad, it's more that with a lot of Gallente hulls, even with max skills it's harder than it is with other races to fit best T2 weapons AND a half-decent tank AND tackle, without really slowing the ship down to the point where its unable to apply all that dps except in highly situational circumstances. Perhaps rails just need a bit of a damage boost to bring them more in line with artys, and heavily rail-oriented Caldari hulls could be tweaked a bit too; but the real problem is that Gallente hulls haven't been updated to fit in with the nerfs and buffs that have happened to the other races' ships and weps over the years. They need a bit more PG and CPU now (although how to do that without making them FOTM for other weapon systems is tricky - perhaps they could have more PG and CPU efficiency only for hybrid fitting - like an "affinity" with hybrids or something).
To play devil's advocate, on the other hand, MMOS always seem to have an "IWIN" race and a race that's really hard to get the best out of. Some people thrive on a challenge, while others avoid it.
But Gallente have really fallen too far in recent years. Our famous and beloved drone boats (Vexor, Myrm, Domi, Ishtar) are the only things left that have any respect at all, and that, not much. Our blasterboats, which used to be feared across the galaxy, are now laughing stocks.
+1.
Please put the 'hull tanking race' bs to bed as well please. |
London
8
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Posted - 2011.09.22 12:07:00 -
[85] - Quote
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:IMHO it's not so much the hybrids, it's more the hulls. The guns themselves aren't that bad, it's more that with a lot of Gallente hulls, even with max skills it's harder than it is with other races to fit best T2 weapons AND a half-decent tank AND tackle, without really slowing the ship down to the point where its unable to apply all that dps except in highly situational circumstances. Perhaps rails just need a bit of a damage boost to bring them more in line with artys, and heavily rail-oriented Caldari hulls could be tweaked a bit too; but the real problem is that Gallente hulls haven't been updated to fit in with the nerfs and buffs that have happened to the other races' ships and weps over the years. They need a bit more PG and CPU now (although how to do that without making them FOTM for other weapon systems is tricky - perhaps they could have more PG and CPU efficiency only for hybrid fitting - like an "affinity" with hybrids or something).
To play devil's advocate, on the other hand, MMOS always seem to have an "IWIN" race and a race that's really hard to get the best out of. Some people thrive on a challenge, while others avoid it.
But Gallente have really fallen too far in recent years. Our famous and beloved drone boats (Vexor, Myrm, Domi, Ishtar) are the only things left that have any respect at all, and that, not much. Our blasterboats, which used to be feared across the galaxy, are now laughing stocks.
Devs, please note this down... quoted for truthiness.
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tika te
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.09.22 12:45:00 -
[86] - Quote
hey ccp: "the hybrids affair" is not some kind of optional-problem-fix-somwhere-in-distant-future!!! you should really take a clooser look on weapons AND hulls; do it NOW, not "probably" during next year! srsly - how difficult can it be? we're asking you to change some NUMBERS in the database - there is no need to call for the art department on this one.... |
Willl Adama
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
19
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Posted - 2011.09.22 13:00:00 -
[87] - Quote
I like blasters Latest Video:-á-á Kill Will: Volume 4 |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
37
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Posted - 2011.09.22 15:59:00 -
[88] - Quote
Willl Adama wrote:I like blasters
I like sci-fi TV shows. But that doesn't change the fact that they struggle to compete with other shows and more often fail. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
23
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Posted - 2011.09.22 17:27:00 -
[89] - Quote
Joelleaveek wrote:So with all this Dev attention in GD today, i though maybe it would be a good time to ask if a Gallente and/or hybrid turret fix is being planned for the near term. I think many Gallente agree that some kind of fix is needed here.
I really don't think Gallente is that broken. Nor the Hybrids that out of power. They're just not "modern" with the current state of EVE warfare. Blasters tear **** up still - fact.
You just need to get nice and close :) NOSTRO AURUM NON EST AURUM VULGI |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
3
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Posted - 2011.09.22 17:53:00 -
[90] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:Joelleaveek wrote:So with all this Dev attention in GD today, i though maybe it would be a good time to ask if a Gallente and/or hybrid turret fix is being planned for the near term. I think many Gallente agree that some kind of fix is needed here. I really don't think Gallente is that broken. Nor the Hybrids that out of power. They're just not "modern" with the current state of EVE warfare. Blasters tear **** up still - fact. You just need to get nice and close :)
While this is true - blasters are effective against same-size ships once you've got into range - there are some caveats to add.
The first one is the one of getting into range. Putting the shortest-range turrets on slow, armoured hulls makes little sense, especially when their competitors are in fast shield boats with lots of room for gyros and TEs.
Second, "same-size ship". Pulse and ACs have the ability to apply DPS to smaller ships by trading range for transversal. Blasters are the only turret that has neither the range nor tracking to effectively do this. This is not justificable.
Third, and possibly most importantly, Pulse and ACs are also capable of tearing **** up at close range, but also have the med-range option, which begs the question "Why use a blasterboat?" Blasters need a much greater applied damage advantage over ACs and Pulse at blasters' optimal. Why do ACs, which are supposed to be used in falloff (hence the AC-boats' high speeds) deserve tracking that is often superior to blasters? Why should ACs have selectable damage types to increase their applied damage in the small-scale engagements that blasterboats are designed for?
Sure, you can increase the applied damage advantage of blasters, relative to ACs and Pulse, by increasing blaster damage and tracking. But I feel that the magnitude of the boost necessary to give blasters the advantage that they deserve close up would be deeply problematic, and we should also look at the other half of the problem, meaning reducing Pulse and AC applied damage close up. This might entail looking at reducing Pulse and AC tracking, and possible AC base damage too. |
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