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Zhu Khan
NK-14
5
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Posted - 2012.05.21 15:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
GÇóTormentor: role changed from mining to combat ship
GùªNew bonuses: 5% to small energy turret damage and 10% reduction to small energy weapon capacitor use per level. GùªSlot layout: 3 High, 3 Mid, 4 Low; 2 turrets and no launchers. GùªFittings: 49 PWG, 130 CPU GùªDefense (shields / armor / hull) : 350 / 450 / 400 GùªCapacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second): 400 / 200 s / 2 GùªMobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320 / 3.05 / 1180000 / 3.37 s GùªDrones (bandwidth / bay): 10 / 10 GùªTargeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 40km / 620 / 4 GùªSensor strength: 9 Radar GùªSignature radius: 35
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Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
87
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Posted - 2012.05.21 16:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Diversity is a bad thing! Rargh!
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1026
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Posted - 2012.05.21 16:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
RIP all pro pvpers who boast of impressive kills using mining frigates. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Rond Dorlezahn
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
23
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Posted - 2012.05.21 17:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Diversity is a bad thing! Rargh!
Are you ACTUALLY going to pretend that people mine in frigates after their first day in EVE?
What this gives us is diversity in combat. Maybe you should've thought about this for longer than half a second. |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
87
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Posted - 2012.05.21 18:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rond Dorlezahn wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:Diversity is a bad thing! Rargh!
Are you ACTUALLY going to pretend that people mine in frigates after their first day in EVE? What this gives us is diversity in combat. Maybe you should've thought about this for longer than half a second.
It is a fun niche to have nontheless. We don't need more combat frigates anyway. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1026
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Posted - 2012.05.21 18:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:We don't need more combat frigates anyway. We need fewer useless ships, though. One more combat ship (and more variety in combat) is better than one ship that is never used except for lolcynos.
Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
3
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Posted - 2012.05.21 18:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
I have very good memories of those ships, they have been very usefull back in the day. |
Zhu Khan
NK-14
5
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Posted - 2012.05.21 18:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
I won't lie, I actually enjoyed the mining frigates to a degree (except the Tormentor which was a pain). They actually had a niche, they just sucked for their intended purpose when it took relatively little time and/or money to skill into a Cruiser and do a much better job. Now, if they would have changed the mining frigates to have a dedicated (albeit fairly small) ore hold like the Orcas, I think it would have fixed a lot of their poor utility. |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2012.05.21 19:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Rond Dorlezahn wrote:Are you ACTUALLY going to pretend that people mine in frigates after their first day in EVE?
Well, just to be a bit pernickerty, there's no need to pretend - it actually happens. I doubt many newbies finish all the tutorials on their first day.
What I want to know is why only the Tormentor? Amarr newbies will no longer have a specialist mining frigate but the other three races will continue to have theirs. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1028
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Posted - 2012.05.21 19:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:Rond Dorlezahn wrote:Are you ACTUALLY going to pretend that people mine in frigates after their first day in EVE?
Well, just to be a bit pernickerty, there's no need to pretend - it actually happens. I doubt many newbies finish all the tutorials on their first day. What I want to know is why only the Tormentor? Amarr newbies will no longer have a specialist mining frigate but the other three races will continue to have theirs. Gradual rebalancing. Doing all of them at once is a lot of a shock, and makes iteration harder.
I expect the Bantam to become a railgun sniper platform, Navitas a drone boat, and Burst a mini artillery platform. Just my 0.02 ISK. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
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Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
85
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Posted - 2012.05.21 19:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Did they change the mineral requirements for constructing this ship at all? I don't make minerals. I just make ore 20% cooler. |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2012.05.21 19:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:I expect the Bantam to become a railgun sniper platform, Navitas a drone boat, and Burst a mini artillery platform. Just my 0.02 ISK. I hope you're wrong. My ribs would never survive the strain of laughing at the sight of the Navitas as a combat ship.
And the Bantam should be given to Minmatar to replace the current Burst and a new, more Caldari-like Bantam designed. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1028
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Posted - 2012.05.21 19:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:My ribs would never survive the strain of laughing at the sight of the Navitas as a combat ship. I stole a Navitas from a noob and I'm keeping it in my hangar until it gets rebalanced so I can later find him and shoot him with it. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Aulx-Gao Ekanon
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.05.21 19:51:00 -
[14] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:And the Bantam should be given to Minmatar to replace the current Burst and a new, more Caldari-like Bantam designed.
The Bantam should be given to the Minmatar for target practice. It is hideous. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= It's not paranoia if everyone really is out to get you.-á |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
121
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Posted - 2012.05.22 01:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:We don't need more combat frigates anyway. We need fewer useless ships, though. One more combat ship (and more variety in combat) is better than one ship that is never used except for lolcynos. i disagree with that. it's the 'useless' ships that make the other ships seem more valuable. if you homogenize everything and anything, the game loses a lot of its depth. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
97
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Posted - 2012.05.22 01:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Good riddance to bad rubbish! |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2012.05.22 04:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Aulx-Gao Ekanon wrote:The Bantam should be given to the Minmatar for target practice. It is hideous. That's why I think it would blend in well. |
Maeltstome
Epidemic. F0RCEFUL ENTRY
2
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Posted - 2012.05.22 14:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:We don't need more combat frigates anyway. We need fewer useless ships, though. One more combat ship (and more variety in combat) is better than one ship that is never used except for lolcynos. i disagree with that. it's the 'useless' ships that make the other ships seem more valuable. if you homogenize everything and anything, the game loses a lot of its depth.
Ummm.. No. They have plenty of depth already. Depth isn't a good thing if no one uses it. Then its just chaff and needs to be separated. |
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
86
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Posted - 2012.05.22 14:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
There is a number of niche things they could have done for the mining frigates... like let them receive an 'asteroid core' that refines into a bunch of minerals if they are the one to pop an asteroid (that the bigger mining ships wouldn't get). That way it would reward careful mining ops so that the hulks don't pop 'roids and a player in a Burst could fly around and knock out the last little bits of asteroids to get the cores.
But I can see why they are doing this as these ships are near useless at the moment. I'm glad I held onto my 5-run Burst BPC from my newbie missions. I might be able to manufacture them for a profit if they remake the burst into something someone might actually want to fly. I don't make minerals. I just make ore 20% cooler. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1046
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Posted - 2012.05.22 14:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
That brings up a valid point. Are mining tutorials still going to give "mining" frigates to newbies? Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
125
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Posted - 2012.05.22 14:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:We don't need more combat frigates anyway. We need fewer useless ships, though. One more combat ship (and more variety in combat) is better than one ship that is never used except for lolcynos. i disagree with that. it's the 'useless' ships that make the other ships seem more valuable. if you homogenize everything and anything, the game loses a lot of its depth. Ummm.. No. They have plenty of depth already. Depth isn't a good thing if no one uses it. Then its just chaff and needs to be separated. i beg to differ. just knowing that you have chosen the better of two options can be a motivating factor. it's basically the only reason people watch jersey shore: they feel better for just being smarter than snooki. |
Kurfin
Viziam Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2012.05.22 18:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
Some one forgot to remove the resource harvesting cert from it's recommend tab...
Shame to see them go. They served a purpose, albeit briefly, at the beginning of most industrialists careers. I don't know what the industrialist training missions give out as rewards, but surely you don't finish them with either a mining cruiser or the money to buy one? For new characters (without a sugar daddy) a cruiser is an expensive bit of kit, and the Amarr one is useless for mining.
And as others have pointed out, do we really need another lousy combat frig? Is it due a buff when the tiers are ditched? |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1049
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Posted - 2012.05.22 18:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kurfin wrote:Some one forgot to remove the resource harvesting cert from it's recommend tab...
Shame to see them go. They served a purpose, albeit briefly, at the beginning of most industrialists careers. I don't know what the industrialist training missions give out as rewards, but surely you don't finish them with either a mining cruiser or the money to buy one? For new characters (without a sugar daddy) a cruiser is an expensive bit of kit, and the Amarr one is useless for mining.
And as others have pointed out, do we really need another lousy combat frig? Is it due a buff when the tiers are ditched? It is already up to snuff. I am looking at stats, and it could quite feasibly take on a Rifter -- especially a shield-fit one. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Mavnas
The Scope Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2012.05.22 21:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
You could mine in a destroyer. No you can't fit a full rack of miners due to CPU reasons, but they can mine better than a mining frig and have a bigger hold. |
George Whitebread
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
18
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Posted - 2012.05.22 21:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
Aulx-Gao Ekanon wrote: The Bantam should be given to the Minmatar for target practice. It is hideous.
Indeed it is. I have always considered it the ugliest ship in the game. "I say what I like, and I like what I bloody well say" - George Whitebread |
General Rayne
The Eagle's Talon
0
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Posted - 2012.05.23 00:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
What CCP SHOULD have done is released the Tier 1 mining ships BEFORE they started changing the Mining Frigates into combat Frigates.
Everyone can argue all they want that Mining Frigates are useless and are rarely used, but they make these arguments from high SP characters that are well beyond using those ships. They most certainly were used; just recently I started a newb character and joined a newb corp, and they're used heavily by players looking to jump into mining/manufacturing.
Just because you don't use them doesn't make them useless. CCP should have released a replacement for the mining ships before they got rip of them... Plain and simple... |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1052
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Posted - 2012.05.23 01:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
General Rayne wrote:What CCP SHOULD have done is released the Tier 1 mining ships BEFORE they started changing the Mining Frigates into combat Frigates.
Everyone can argue all they want that Mining Frigates are useless and are rarely used, but they make these arguments from high SP characters that are well beyond using those ships. They most certainly were used; just recently I started a newb character and joined a newb corp, and they're used heavily by players looking to jump into mining/manufacturing.
Just because you don't use them doesn't make them useless. CCP should have released a replacement for the mining ships before they got rip of them... Plain and simple... Train Destroyers I. Problem solved. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
General Rayne
The Eagle's Talon
0
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Posted - 2012.05.23 01:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:General Rayne wrote:What CCP SHOULD have done is released the Tier 1 mining ships BEFORE they started changing the Mining Frigates into combat Frigates.
Everyone can argue all they want that Mining Frigates are useless and are rarely used, but they make these arguments from high SP characters that are well beyond using those ships. They most certainly were used; just recently I started a newb character and joined a newb corp, and they're used heavily by players looking to jump into mining/manufacturing.
Just because you don't use them doesn't make them useless. CCP should have released a replacement for the mining ships before they got rip of them... Plain and simple... Train Destroyers I. Problem solved.
I can't be bothered to do the math right now, but with Frigate V and using Mining Laser IIs and using Mining Laser Upgrade Is in the low slots... a mining Frigate could pull in large amounts of ore and have the same cargohold size as a Destroyer. The only way a Destroyer can even fit enough Mining Laser IIs to keep up with that yield is using all of its low slots for Co Processors to fit enough of the mining lasers.
That's really all irrelevant though. The majority of new players aren't going to know to skill into a Destroyer (a ship designed purely for combat) in order to start out mining. Additionally, a Destroyer is far more expensive than a Mining Frigate was. If that new player doesn't do the tutorial missions for the free Destroyer, it's going to take them even longer to get any isk wasting their time mining (ignorantly) in an un-bonused Frigate.
While certain situations call for it, players shouldn't be forced to use ships for an unintended purpose... especially when that purpose is a HUGE part of Eve (mining) that has vast amounts of game content dedicated to it. |
Dato Koppla
Perkone Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.05.23 02:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
Above poster has a point, I'm embarrassed to admit I once mined in a Bantam to get some extra money for the fittings on my first cruiser, my Mining is still at a lowly level 3 up till this day, but I did find a purpose for the mining frigate in my early days (also taught me that I never want to mine cause its mind numbingly boring. |
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