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subtle turtle
We Reach Around Situation: Normal
5
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Posted - 2012.05.22 14:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
The new merlin may be a bit....OP? Amazing? I don't know, you decide.
It can now fit a full rack of Neutrons, with 1 MAPC in the lows (mag stab and DCU 2 as well), with scram/web/MSE2/AB in the mids. Rigs are 2 shield extenders/1 EM hardener
With my skills and Caldari Navy Antimatter it shoves out 172.8 DPS cold at 1125/4125m, with null for range it's 137.7 DPS cold at 3150/7350m. Add heat and it's 198.7 with CN anti and 158.4 with null.
All with a decent buffer at 6065 EHP, shield resists 67/48/61/68, speed is 953m/s cold with a limited AB.
That DPS is INSANE for a t1 frig that isn't fully gank fit! Granted the speed and range is a little low, but with a web you should be OK. This should kill pretty much every other T1 frig that can't kite it.
Sorry about the crappy way of posting the fit, PYFA isn't updated to inferno yet.
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Yabba Addict
Legion of the Many
12
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Posted - 2012.05.22 14:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Right, i'm off to buy some merlins |
Dato Koppla
Perkone Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.05.22 16:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yeah that thing got crazy stats, plug-in cheap speed/damage implants. |
Vorekk
Ideal Machine Many Reckless Corps
2
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Posted - 2012.05.22 17:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
PYFA isn't updated to inferno yet
Yes it is. |
TomyLobo
Posthuman Society Elysian Empire
14
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Posted - 2012.05.22 17:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think the incursus will be much better. |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
74
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Posted - 2012.05.22 17:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
There's your problem. Try fitting a legitimate pvp setup instead, and the numbers drop quite a bit.
Quote:speed is 953m/s cold with a limited AB.
Which is slower than most battleships. Have fun being kited and insta-killed by everything smaller than a titan.
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Delucian
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
17
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Posted - 2012.05.22 18:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:There's your problem. Try fitting a legitimate pvp setup instead, and the numbers drop quite a bit. Quote:speed is 953m/s cold with a limited AB. Which is slower than most battleships. Have fun being kited and insta-killed by everything smaller than a titan.
Bwahahahahahahaha |
Emiko Luan
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium Kill It With Fire
65
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Posted - 2012.05.22 18:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
to be fair we don't know the upcoming other frigate buffs yet +welcome to my world+ http://venomzer0.deviantart.com |
Solaris Ecladia
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.05.22 18:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:There's your problem. Try fitting a legitimate pvp setup instead, and the numbers drop quite a bit. Quote:speed is 953m/s cold with a limited AB. Which is slower than most battleships. Have fun being kited and insta-killed by everything smaller than a titan.
I know what you mean. Those 1000+ m/s Carriers can be a real pain in the *****.... |
Mongo Edwards
Grey Templars Ushra'Khan
7
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Posted - 2012.05.22 18:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
If you drop the Neutrons for ions and use void (should have approximately the same range, tracking, and dps), as well as trade the T2 MSE for a meta 4 MSE does that allow you to drop the MAPC and upgrade to a MWD?
Sorry, I'm at work atm so I can't check it myself :( |
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Roosterton
Syndicalis Immortalis
343
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Posted - 2012.05.22 23:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:There's your problem. Try fitting a legitimate pvp setup instead, and the numbers drop quite a bit. Quote:speed is 953m/s cold with a limited AB. Which is slower than most battleships. Have fun being kited and insta-killed by everything smaller than a titan.
You should probably try actually logging in sometime. |
Hatt0ri Hanz0
Life sucks then you die Ltd.
27
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Posted - 2012.05.22 23:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
subtle turtle wrote:The new merlin may be a bit....OP? Amazing? I don't know, you decide.
It can now fit a full rack of Neutrons, with 1 MAPC in the lows (mag stab and DCU 2 as well), with scram/web/MSE2/AB in the mids. Rigs are 2 shield extenders/1 EM hardener
With my skills and Caldari Navy Antimatter it shoves out 172.8 DPS cold at 1125/4125m, with null for range it's 137.7 DPS cold at 3150/7350m. Add heat and it's 198.7 with CN anti and 158.4 with null.
All with a decent buffer at 6065 EHP, shield resists 67/48/61/68, speed is 953m/s cold with a limited AB.
That DPS is INSANE for a t1 frig that isn't fully gank fit! Granted the speed and range is a little low, but with a web you should be OK. This should kill pretty much every other T1 frig that can't kite it.
Sorry about the crappy way of posting the fit, PYFA isn't updated to inferno yet.
Good luck getting kite killed by just about everyone but other blaster ships. |
Reppyk
The Black Shell
128
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Posted - 2012.05.22 23:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:Which is slower than most battleships. Have fun being kited and insta-killed by everything smaller than a titan. Most battleships = the machariel.
It's like saying... Most of your advices are good. |
subtle turtle
We Reach Around Situation: Normal
5
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Posted - 2012.05.23 01:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:There's your problem. Try fitting a legitimate pvp setup instead, and the numbers drop quite a bit. Quote:speed is 953m/s cold with a limited AB. Which is slower than most battleships. Have fun being kited and insta-killed by everything smaller than a titan.
LOL. You clearly don't fly frigates in PVP. While in some circumstances a MWD is needed, for the most part you fly within scram range, particularly on this fit (did you miss the part where the range is WELL within scram range?). Also, with a MSE2 and a MWD, the sig on a merlin would be cruiser size, and all those battleships you are afraid of will have crushed you long before even your MWD speed would get you under their guns. AB is the right prop mod for a brawler frig. I apologize for assuming that everyone already knew that.
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Fireflyb1
Walden Enterprises
7
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Posted - 2012.05.23 01:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
subtle turtle wrote:Merin Ryskin wrote:There's your problem. Try fitting a legitimate pvp setup instead, and the numbers drop quite a bit. Quote:speed is 953m/s cold with a limited AB. Which is slower than most battleships. Have fun being kited and insta-killed by everything smaller than a titan. LOL. You clearly don't fly frigates in PVP. While in some circumstances a MWD is needed, for the most part you fly within scram range, particularly on this fit (did you miss the part where the range is WELL within scram range?). Also, with a MSE2 and a MWD, the sig on a merlin would be cruiser size, and all those battleships you are afraid of will have crushed you long before even your MWD speed would get you under their guns. AB is the right prop mod for a brawler frig. I apologize for assuming that everyone already knew that.
Well if you're soloing in nullsec you'd need a mwd no matter what, IMO at least... and even in normal lowsec 1v1's or w/e, how would you get close enough to brawl a kiter in an AB fit? :) |
subtle turtle
We Reach Around Situation: Normal
5
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Posted - 2012.05.23 01:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mongo Edwards wrote:If you drop the Neutrons for ions and use void (should have approximately the same range, tracking, and dps), as well as trade the T2 MSE for a meta 4 MSE does that allow you to drop the MAPC and upgrade to a MWD?
Sorry, I'm at work atm so I can't check it myself :(
[Merlin, Merlin fit]
Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Medium Shield Extender II Experimental 1MN Afterburner I Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S Light Ion Blaster II, Void S Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Core Defense Field Extender I Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Finally updated my pyfa (I forgot to update, my fault) Actually works well. Per PYFA, the EHP is about the same for 2 extender rigs and 1 em/1 therm. WIth the Ions and Void it is 184 DPS at 1.41+1.25. Very short range though, less fall of then CN antimatter. With null that fit gets 132 DPS at 2.63+3.5. Still respectable numbers. Also note that with an experimental AB, you get 999m/s, T2 is 1043 (I threw that fit together this morning before going to work and didn't have the meta 4 or t2 in my hanger).
To the people asking about why an AB fit, it really comes down to the need to be in scram range and sig bloom (and to a lesser extent the fitting requirements of a MWD). It does limit the ship's usefulness, and you won't be able to kill anything that can kite you at all. However, most frigs do fight within scram range. If your opponent is MWD fit and you are AB fit and you are in scram range, it is game over for the MWD fit ship. This is why many ships will dual prop fit (if they have the mids for it), MWD into scram range and AB when you are in close. However, even with a MWD, the merlin is not a fast ship and still prone to kiting by other frigs. It is now an amazing brawler (apparently what CCP intended), and will die to kiters unless you can land that scram/web.
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Dibblerette
The Phantom Regiment The House Of Cards.
68
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Posted - 2012.05.23 02:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
I still miss the old Merlin, but I'm itching to try this new one. Anyone tried an active fit with the new ancilliary shield boosters? Or are they still retardedly pricy? |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
78
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Posted - 2012.05.23 03:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
subtle turtle wrote:LOL. You clearly don't fly frigates in PVP. While in some circumstances a MWD is needed, for the most part you fly within scram range, particularly on this fit (did you miss the part where the range is WELL within scram range?). Also, with a MSE2 and a MWD, the sig on a merlin would be cruiser size, and all those battleships you are afraid of will have crushed you long before even your MWD speed would get you under their guns. AB is the right prop mod for a brawler frig. I apologize for assuming that everyone already knew that.
Ok, here's a nice common PvP scenario: you land 15km from a nanocane.
If you have a MWD, you might be able to get into web/scram range, or at least run away.
If you only have an AB, your only hope is to immediately warp out and hope you escape before the Hurricane gets a lock and point on you. The Hurricane is significantly faster than you, and will immediately be moving away from you. Transversal drops to zero, you take 100% EFT dps, and you pop in seconds.
Since the same is also true of pretty much every single other ship with medium guns, the only time an AB setup is anything other than suicide is when you have an arranged 1v1 with another frigate and a reasonable expectation that they are not using a MWD/kite fit. |
ACE81
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
14
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Posted - 2012.05.23 03:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
After burner frigs work fine provided you think before you engage. Example I see a Hurricane 1. if im close enough with fleet support I tackle him. 2 if I am to far away I run and report it to my fleet mates.
3. If I was solo I would always choose to run with AB against any BC. |
subtle turtle
We Reach Around Situation: Normal
5
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Posted - 2012.05.23 04:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:subtle turtle wrote:LOL. You clearly don't fly frigates in PVP. While in some circumstances a MWD is needed, for the most part you fly within scram range, particularly on this fit (did you miss the part where the range is WELL within scram range?). Also, with a MSE2 and a MWD, the sig on a merlin would be cruiser size, and all those battleships you are afraid of will have crushed you long before even your MWD speed would get you under their guns. AB is the right prop mod for a brawler frig. I apologize for assuming that everyone already knew that. Ok, here's a nice common PvP scenario: you land 15km from a nanocane. If you have a MWD, you might be able to get into web/scram range, or at least run away. If you only have an AB, your only hope is to immediately warp out and hope you escape before the Hurricane gets a lock and point on you. The Hurricane is significantly faster than you, and will immediately be moving away from you. Transversal drops to zero, you take 100% EFT dps, and you pop in seconds. Since the same is also true of pretty much every single other ship with medium guns, the only time an AB setup is anything other than suicide is when you have an arranged 1v1 with another frigate and a reasonable expectation that they are not using a MWD/kite fit.
So your point is that if you fail at flying this ship it will die? I absolutely agree. Actually, the same can be said for your nano-cane, a carrier, and even a titan. If you fly it wrong and stupidly, it will die. In your scenario above, you have failed as a pilot before the first shot was fired.
My point is that a MWD is not, as you seem to insist, needed or even desirable for all forms of PVP, and the fact that I fit an AB to this ship is a VERY legitimate choice, despite your assertion to the contrary. I have flown and had excellent success with AB frigs, and while I do concede that there are scenarios where a MWD would be preferable, I personally think the AB frig is a much more versatile and useful fit for most of the PVP I fly in (low-sec mainly). My point in my post was not that the fit I came up with was the end all and be all PVP ship of all time, just that it was a VERY good fit compared to what the merlin had previously been capable of. |
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Kaikka Carel
White syndicate Wormholes Holders
51
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Posted - 2012.05.23 05:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Just EFTed this and it's ridiculously close to AFs. The dude may have a point. |
Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
86
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Posted - 2012.05.23 08:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:subtle turtle wrote:LOL. You clearly don't fly frigates in PVP. While in some circumstances a MWD is needed, for the most part you fly within scram range, particularly on this fit (did you miss the part where the range is WELL within scram range?). Also, with a MSE2 and a MWD, the sig on a merlin would be cruiser size, and all those battleships you are afraid of will have crushed you long before even your MWD speed would get you under their guns. AB is the right prop mod for a brawler frig. I apologize for assuming that everyone already knew that. Ok, here's a nice common PvP scenario: you land 15km from a nanocane. If you have a MWD, you might be able to get into web/scram range, or at least run away. If you only have an AB, your only hope is to immediately warp out and hope you escape before the Hurricane gets a lock and point on you. The Hurricane is significantly faster than you, and will immediately be moving away from you. Transversal drops to zero, you take 100% EFT dps, and you pop in seconds. Since the same is also true of pretty much every single other ship with medium guns, the only time an AB setup is anything other than suicide is when you have an arranged 1v1 with another frigate and a reasonable expectation that they are not using a MWD/kite fit.
What you effectively said is a T1 frig can be countered, HOLY ******* **** NOBEL PRIZE WINNING MATERIAL |
ChromeStriker
The Riot Formation Get Off My Lawn
118
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Posted - 2012.05.23 09:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:subtle turtle wrote:LOL. You clearly don't fly frigates in PVP. While in some circumstances a MWD is needed, for the most part you fly within scram range, particularly on this fit (did you miss the part where the range is WELL within scram range?). Also, with a MSE2 and a MWD, the sig on a merlin would be cruiser size, and all those battleships you are afraid of will have crushed you long before even your MWD speed would get you under their guns. AB is the right prop mod for a brawler frig. I apologize for assuming that everyone already knew that. Ok, here's a nice common PvP scenario: you land 15km from a nanocane. If you have a MWD, you might be able to get into web/scram range, or at least run away. If you only have an AB, your only hope is to immediately warp out and hope you escape before the Hurricane gets a lock and point on you. The Hurricane is significantly faster than you, and will immediately be moving away from you. Transversal drops to zero, you take 100% EFT dps, and you pop in seconds. Since the same is also true of pretty much every single other ship with medium guns, the only time an AB setup is anything other than suicide is when you have an arranged 1v1 with another frigate and a reasonable expectation that they are not using a MWD/kite fit.
Who is this chick/dude?
@ 15k you have plenty of time to close range, point, web, and get under theyre guns!!! A cane is not going to outrun you with no mwd let alone with a web on him. In fact youd prob be set @ double that range. Your only problems would be his drones, and/or if he has them fit neuts/webs nothing to do with what your on about. - Nulla Curas |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
88
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Posted - 2012.05.23 09:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
Confirming that Merlin is powerhouse. |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
64
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Posted - 2012.05.23 09:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
Technically off-topic, but the incursus looks like it's going to be pretty fun now too. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3917
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 09:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
subtle turtle wrote:The new merlin may be a bit....OP? Amazing? I don't know, you decide.
It can now fit a full rack of Neutrons, with 1 MAPC in the lows (mag stab and DCU 2 as well), with scram/web/MSE2/AB in the mids. Rigs are 2 shield extenders/1 EM hardener
With my skills and Caldari Navy Antimatter it shoves out 172.8 DPS cold at 1125/4125m, with null for range it's 137.7 DPS cold at 3150/7350m. Add heat and it's 198.7 with CN anti and 158.4 with null.
All with a decent buffer at 6065 EHP, shield resists 67/48/61/68, speed is 953m/s cold with a limited AB.
That DPS is INSANE for a t1 frig that isn't fully gank fit! Granted the speed and range is a little low, but with a web you should be OK. This should kill pretty much every other T1 frig that can't kite it.
Sorry about the crappy way of posting the fit, PYFA isn't updated to inferno yet.
Oh cool, so when you say it's "a bit OP" you mean it's competitive with the Rifter? (More tank, rather slower)
I'm OK with that. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Otrebla Utrigas
Space Bastards
13
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Posted - 2012.05.23 10:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
I have tested it with a friend against the standard rifter, and it rocks. Of course if the rifter pilot know what he is doing he can avoid the fight, but once he is commited to it, well, the new merlin eat the rifter even before the shields burn out.
Of course, 1v1 perfect solo scenario is an utopy but... the merlin is a powerhouse.
I'm trying to fit a nano on the merlin and see if the speed is trade enough for the blaster downgrade (electrons instead of neutrons) |
Ra Doma
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.05.23 12:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Hmm i forgot to look at the other frigs. was too busy looking for targets in my Incursus lol. Thank god they didn't remove the resist bonus from the Merlin.
Yay for t1 frigs being fun again after the AF buff. |
Fireflyb1
Walden Enterprises
8
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Posted - 2012.05.23 12:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ra Doma wrote:Hmm i forgot to look at the other frigs. was too busy looking for targets in my Incursus lol. Thank god they didn't remove the resist bonus from the Merlin.
Yay for t1 frigs being fun again after the AF buff.
Only thing I don't like about incursus "buff" is the armor rep "upgrade"... while this is just personal taste, I can't IMAGINE the fun with those extra 2 lows and keeping the falloff bonus lol |
Ra Doma
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.05.23 12:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
Fireflyb1 wrote:Ra Doma wrote:Hmm i forgot to look at the other frigs. was too busy looking for targets in my Incursus lol. Thank god they didn't remove the resist bonus from the Merlin.
Yay for t1 frigs being fun again after the AF buff. Only thing I don't like about incursus "buff" is the armor rep "upgrade"... while this is just personal taste, I can't IMAGINE the fun with those extra 2 lows and keeping the falloff bonus lol
My test fit i put 200mm plate, t2 rep, dcu, magstab. with 2x ambit 1x anti exp rigs. Only 1 real fight so far but it didnt hit structure while fighting a 400mm plated rifter. |
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