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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Alara IonStorm
2237
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Posted - 2012.05.23 20:40:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote: but it's no easy 5 minute task either Can I ask why you don't change a couple of variables without all that work on a few little things that don't matter much right now.
I basically mean for example the Omen that 99% agree that right now it is a fitting nightmare that makes it an extremely rare to see and won't be that good even with fitting. Would it be so bad to toss it a few grid / cpu points to get it by in the mean while until you test the fully updated one? I'm just asking not suggesting.
Great post though, I am excited about what what you have planned for Cruisers now that I have seen the new Frigates.
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Aliaksandre
Black Rebel Rifter Club
3
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Posted - 2012.05.23 20:52:00 -
[62] - Quote
Hail Goddess wrote:This was infact a Rifter nerf. However, the Merlin is not OP. Incursus, is now better than the Tristan... Which doesn't make much sense. The new Punisher is nasty with certain setups and may be better than the others now. Infact the punisher is a Crusader, with better damage and tank.
Fit 1 neut and focus on damage and tank (150dps MF). Outdamages the rest @ range unless they use long range turrets. Should b able to school most interceptors and T1 frigates no matter the setup. If it's losing. The other ship is capped by then (turn and warp off).
Unfortunately this isn't all true, just EFT numbers. In actual tests the rifter can speed tank a punisher's lasers, as can anything with a web. That DPS means nothing if it doesn't hit half the time. |
Hail Goddess
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.05.23 21:35:00 -
[63] - Quote
Aliaksandre wrote:Hail Goddess wrote:This was infact a Rifter nerf. However, the Merlin is not OP. Incursus, is now better than the Tristan... Which doesn't make much sense. The new Punisher is nasty with certain setups and may be better than the others now. Infact the punisher is a Crusader, with better damage and tank.
Fit 1 neut and focus on damage and tank (150dps MF). Outdamages the rest @ range unless they use long range turrets. Should b able to school most interceptors and T1 frigates no matter the setup. If it's losing. The other ship is capped by then (turn and warp off). Unfortunately this isn't all true, just EFT numbers. In actual tests the rifter can speed tank a punisher's lasers, as can anything with a web. That DPS means nothing if it doesn't hit half the time.
I'm more than aware of the tracking issues. Which is why the neut is there. Neuts are used on many ships as a good sub for stasis webifiers... (again, things dont go your way. Just align and warp off v0v( neut)) |
Alara IonStorm
2237
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Posted - 2012.05.23 21:37:00 -
[64] - Quote
Hail Goddess wrote:Aliaksandre wrote:Hail Goddess wrote:This was infact a Rifter nerf. However, the Merlin is not OP. Incursus, is now better than the Tristan... Which doesn't make much sense. The new Punisher is nasty with certain setups and may be better than the others now. Infact the punisher is a Crusader, with better damage and tank.
Fit 1 neut and focus on damage and tank (150dps MF). Outdamages the rest @ range unless they use long range turrets. Should b able to school most interceptors and T1 frigates no matter the setup. If it's losing. The other ship is capped by then (turn and warp off). Unfortunately this isn't all true, just EFT numbers. In actual tests the rifter can speed tank a punisher's lasers, as can anything with a web. That DPS means nothing if it doesn't hit half the time. I'm more than aware of the tracking issues. Which is why the neut is there. Neuts are used on many ships as a good sub for stasis webifiers... (again, things dont go your way. Just align and warp off v0v) So fit a Nos on your Rifter to counteract the Neut.
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Hail Goddess
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.05.23 21:40:00 -
[65] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Hail Goddess wrote:Aliaksandre wrote:Hail Goddess wrote:This was infact a Rifter nerf. However, the Merlin is not OP. Incursus, is now better than the Tristan... Which doesn't make much sense. The new Punisher is nasty with certain setups and may be better than the others now. Infact the punisher is a Crusader, with better damage and tank.
Fit 1 neut and focus on damage and tank (150dps MF). Outdamages the rest @ range unless they use long range turrets. Should b able to school most interceptors and T1 frigates no matter the setup. If it's losing. The other ship is capped by then (turn and warp off). Unfortunately this isn't all true, just EFT numbers. In actual tests the rifter can speed tank a punisher's lasers, as can anything with a web. That DPS means nothing if it doesn't hit half the time. I'm more than aware of the tracking issues. Which is why the neut is there. Neuts are used on many ships as a good sub for stasis webifiers... (again, things dont go your way. Just align and warp off v0v) So fit a Nos on your Rifter to counteract the Neut.
Based on the current mechanics. The outcome is still the same. You would need 2 small Nos to effectively counter 1 small neut. Anyway, The tracking issue is why the neut is there for the most part. The other benifits are a plus v0v |
Hail Goddess
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.05.23 21:44:00 -
[66] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote: but it's no easy 5 minute task either Can I ask why you don't change a couple of variables without all that work on a few little things that don't matter much right now. I basically mean for example the Omen that 99% agree that right now it is a fitting nightmare that makes it an extremely rare to see and won't be that good even with fitting. Would it be so bad to toss it a few grid / cpu points to get it by in the mean while until you test the fully updated one? I'm just asking not suggesting. Great post though, I am excited about what what you have planned for Cruisers now that I have seen the new Frigates.
Omen may be difficult to setup. However, it still out damages a shield rupture @ 16,000 - 28,000m. Velocity is relitive and so is overall resisted hit points on both ships. My fav ships in game are cruisers and I primarly use them above all other ships more than ever. I'd enjoy a boost to Amarr and Caldari cruisers. |
Alara IonStorm
2237
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Posted - 2012.05.23 21:45:00 -
[67] - Quote
Hail Goddess wrote: Based on the current mechanics. The outcome is still the same. You would need 2 small Nos to effectively counter 1 small neut. Anyway, The tracking issue is why the neut is there for the most part. The other benifits are a plus v0v
1. If the problem is your AB the Nos will give you more then enough to run it and tackle. 2. Stop worrying about 1v1's the Rifter can intercept targets and escape from them better then the Punisher. You want it to win every fight as well, tough.
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Hail Goddess
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.05.23 21:54:00 -
[68] - Quote
You should check those facts. You would need to drop ab, scram and web actually. One nos can counter 1 med neut, but 1 small neut counters 1 small nos and 2 small neuts perma lame frigates etc.
Either way. I dont focus on 1 v 1 nor care for them and never have. I focus my ships setups on damage and tank periodz... Anyway! These are opinions and any and everything can happen in the sh!t. To many badz to count. |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc Exhale.
265
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Posted - 2012.05.23 21:57:00 -
[69] - Quote
yeah, you can fit out a merlin with 5.5k ehp and 280 DPS heated... 0.o incursus can now get 180dps with a 240dps local tank heated...
this isnt 'balancing' until all orther frigs are brought in line and is exactly why i dislike partial releases. |
Hail Goddess
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.05.23 22:25:00 -
[70] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:yeah, you can fit out a merlin with 5.5k ehp and 280 DPS heated... 0.o incursus can now get 180dps with a 240dps local tank heated...
this isnt 'balancing' until all orther frigs are brought in line and is exactly why i dislike partial releases.
They're both able actively tank alot of damage. More so the Incursus. The Rifter still has advantages over bother ships. Velocity for the most part. It's not able to abuse the tracking of ship using ions without a web, but can do so to neutrons. It's still able to control range very effectively. Which pretty much ends when a Merlin fits rails...
Whelp! Guess all that's left is wide spread use of 10mn ab's on minmatar frigates. They have a near monopoly in the ability to fit that cruiser mod. Which is what saved the Jaguar and 3 other frigates that use autocannons for me. Cant win? Run! Or! Just kite! |
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Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
65
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Posted - 2012.05.23 22:29:00 -
[71] - Quote
Proxyyyy is that you? |
Hail Goddess
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.05.23 22:37:00 -
[72] - Quote
Suleiman Shouaa wrote:Proxyyyy is that you?
Indeed. |
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
65
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Posted - 2012.05.23 22:43:00 -
[73] - Quote
Hail Goddess wrote:Suleiman Shouaa wrote:Proxyyyy is that you? Indeed.
How you been? Seems you have finally learn how to use caps lock so can't be too bad.. |
Hail Goddess
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.05.23 23:03:00 -
[74] - Quote
Suleiman Shouaa wrote:Hail Goddess wrote:Suleiman Shouaa wrote:Proxyyyy is that you? Indeed. How you been? Seems you have finally learn how to use caps lock so can't be too bad..
All over the place esploding things, stealing things, causing many tears and just doing random funny things. I like how you turn this thread into your private convo = / |
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
65
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Posted - 2012.05.23 23:10:00 -
[75] - Quote
Hail Goddess wrote:Suleiman Shouaa wrote:Hail Goddess wrote:Suleiman Shouaa wrote:Proxyyyy is that you? Indeed. How you been? Seems you have finally learn how to use caps lock so can't be too bad.. All over the place esploding things, stealing things, causing many tears and just doing random funny things. I like how you turn this thread into your private convo = /
I heard you become a Military Director and it did not work out well.
Also Merlin is pretty sick now. Check last kills of a corpmate. Most of the guys he fights are CFC and thus bad, but still..... |
Hail Goddess
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.05.23 23:27:00 -
[76] - Quote
Suleiman Shouaa wrote:Hail Goddess wrote:Suleiman Shouaa wrote:Hail Goddess wrote:Suleiman Shouaa wrote:Proxyyyy is that you? Indeed. How you been? Seems you have finally learn how to use caps lock so can't be too bad.. All over the place esploding things, stealing things, causing many tears and just doing random funny things. I like how you turn this thread into your private convo = / I heard you become a Military Director and it did not work out well. Also Merlin is pretty sick now. Check last kills of a corpmate. Most of the guys he fights are CFC and thus bad, but still.....
Old news Lol! Funny thing is. I'm in leadership of 2 allainces @ the moment.
Yes! I've seen some p funny mails already (Incursus mainly, but also Merlin and Punisher). I've yet to use these ships on Tranquility, though. Focuing on the paper @ the moment.
I'll go off on them this weekend.
Anyway. The Merlin isn't a Harpy though (p OP IMO) . @tleast when compared to the other t1 Frigates (Incursus, Punisher). No doubt these changes are a concerted effort castrate Minmatar dominance.
Amarrian, slaver conspiracy! |
Horiozn Dawn
Novindus Equilibrium Frentix Alliance
1
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Posted - 2012.05.24 01:36:00 -
[77] - Quote
Man, I love this ship, but it did get pointed into a focused role.
Now, the Merlin is built to get in close and brawl your face off, whereas before the merlin had missile slots and gun slots. It didn't know what it wanted to do, it was a sniper and a brawler and a tackler. It was everything, it was a jumble.
Now its focused, deadly, and awesome. Also, has anyone else noticed that the 'combat ship' slot layouts are similar to the faction frigate layouts?
Observe. Hookbill: 3/5/2 - Merlin: 3/4/3 (one less mid but one more low)
Slicer: 3/2/5 - Punisher: 4/2/4 (one less low but one more high)
Comet: 3/3/4- Incursus 3/3/4 (IDENTICAL, though the comet has a bunch more drones)
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Natasha Hec
Mole Station Nursery
2
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Posted - 2012.05.24 06:47:00 -
[78] - Quote
Delucian wrote:Maybe I should shut up, cus all my old tried and true Rifter fits work on the Incursus with moar DPS ...and more tank...
Shush dont let everyone know, I am already annoyed that more people are flying it. |
Vrawynn Krosectorr
Autopirate Engaged
0
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Posted - 2012.05.28 04:01:00 -
[79] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:[quote=subtle turtle]Transversal drops to zero, you take 100% EFT dps, and you pop in seconds.
so it is 1500m from you with autos?
or are you saying it has arties. If that's the case you just wait till it orbits you, then manually fly into its orbital pattern overloaded and scram it out, it has to be in 28km to dis you and it cant be constantly moving away if it is disrupting you, thus needing to do something to stay moving while not getting out of disrupt range, so all you have to do is approach in a non-linear manner and manually pilot to intersect its orbit.
If it isn't orbiting, well, you go 120 degrees to it and warp off, it wont track you from further than 20km which you can kite out of in like 5 seconds if you overload. The cane wont be able to turn around fast enough to keep in disrupt range.
and if it does, then you start approaching at an angle and grab it. tadah.
but then again most frigs don't fight canes that will be neut heavy...without a NOS at least |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
81
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Posted - 2012.05.28 05:38:00 -
[80] - Quote
Vrawynn Krosectorr wrote:so it is 1500m from you with autos?
15km with autocannons. Say hi to 425s with Barrage M and multiple tracking enhancers. You're taking 300+ gun dps anywhere inside 25km unless you can keep transversal above zero.
Quote:If it isn't orbiting,
Say hi to the "keep at range" button, which any decent opponent is always going to use (or manual piloting to accomplish the same result). Orbiting a smaller target is for idiots who like to lose ships.
Quote:The cane wont be able to turn around fast enough to keep in disrupt range.
Wrong. Overloaded point range is 28.8k, and in this scenario you started at 15km. You have to gain 13km from a complete stop before the Hurricane can pivot and accelerate to ~2/3 speed and stop your escape, AND you have to be already aligned for warp and ready to go the moment the point goes off. Since you're going less than 1km/s, this will take you far too long.
And of course even if the Hurricane pilot's reflexes aren't very good and you manage to find a good warp-out aligned in the proper direction, your BEST outcome is that you are able to run away. If your job was, say, to get point for your incoming fleet, you just failed utterly.
(Yes, you can overload, but so can your target.)
Quote:and if it does, then you start approaching at an angle and grab it. tadah.
Err, no, you don't. You're at a huge speed disadvantage, and you have to close inside 10km (from the ~20km you're probably at now) to even attempt to change the situation. Given you're only going 1km/s, even if we ignore the Hurricane's acceleration in the opposite direction it takes you ~10 seconds to get to scram range. Sadly for you, ~10 seconds is enough time for a Hurricane to stop, turn 180*, and accelerate back to 2/3 speed and begin pulling away again.
And of course even getting lucky on the 180* turn doesn't guarantee your success. You've spent at least 10-15 seconds by this point, taking 3-500 dps the entire time. It won't do you much good to finally get a scram on your target just in time to watch the Warrior IIs eat the last of your hull.
(And no, you can't approach at an angle, because the target is faster than you. If you do anything other than go straight at the target, your chances of success drop from near zero to absolutely zero.)
Quote:but then again most frigs don't fight canes that will be neut heavy...without a NOS at least
The point is not necessarily to fight it, but maybe just to hold on long enough for the ships in warp behind you to land and get point. A MWD frigate may or may not survive the attempt, but an AB frigate will almost certainly die before accomplishing that goal.
End result: by fitting the AB, you have limited yourself to arranged 1v1s against other frigates, which makes it a stupid setup unless you're in a frigate dueling corp that never leaves highsec. |
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
81
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Posted - 2012.05.28 05:45:00 -
[81] - Quote
And yes, you can go on all you want about how you'd never even warp into that situation in the first place, but that's exactly the point. EVE PvP is not fair. EVE PvP is not predictable. Sometimes you just have to get the job done with whatever you have available at that moment. You can theorize all you want about ideal matchups, but in the end when that target shows up on dscan you're either warping in for the kill, ideal ship or not, or you're giving up without a fight.
Complain all you want, but the truth is very simple: AB frigates have zero versatility. If you're in anything other than an arranged 1v1 with another frigate, you suck and die. And you know what we call a setup that dies horribly in anything but a single, very specific situation? A bad setup. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Dead On Arrival Alliance
343
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Posted - 2012.05.28 07:25:00 -
[82] - Quote
So basically, if you suck at PVP in AB frigates, AB frigates suck. Chicken and numbskull, explained. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Smabs
Higher Than Everest BricK sQuAD.
48
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Posted - 2012.05.28 07:51:00 -
[83] - Quote
Merin, you just don't go near hurricanes in a frigate unless it's a gang boosted ceptor with a tracking disruptor. Every decent frigate pilot knows this (falcon alts or very close backup aside).
It doesn't matter if you're mwd or ab you don't go near them and if you land within 20km of one you made a stupid mistake. |
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