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Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
209
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Posted - 2012.05.25 17:05:00 -
[31] - Quote
Seleene, I think there would be less rage directed at the CSM if the handful of you who were on the Town Hall had said a bit more than "it's fine" in response to the suggestion that it was a ragestorm waiting to happen.
I'm glad to see they're not dropping the ball on it post-release, but in my eyes - and those of many others - several members of the CSM dropped their own ball when they gave that response to the issue in a public venue.
It's pretty disheartening, especially for those of us who voted for those CSM members in particular. :( |
Mournful Conciousness
Special Situations TOHA Conglomerate
54
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Posted - 2012.05.25 17:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Mostly we are not raging (in public) because it doesn't help. Those days are past now because CCP isn't As for the calls to 'revert' back to the old system, that's not going to happen. It can only evolve forward from here. If you think that the changes to the inventory system involve a "couple of lines in the client" then you have no idea of the complete and utter mess that is the 10 year old server code implemented by dozens of previous employees, many of whom no longer work at CCP.
Thank you for the encouraging words Seleene.
I think the point that the technically savvy amongst us are trying to make is that in a client-server system such as eve there is a strong distinction between data (what's in the hangar) and presentation (how it's displayed).
We are trying to make the point that regardless of the reasons of the underlying DATA changes, the PRESENTATION should not have changed, and it can indeed be reverted IN ISOLATION.
No, it's not "a couple of lines" but neither does it require re-work on the server (I am making the assumption here that CCP are using industry standard best-practice here - something along the lines of the controller-model-view paradigm).
The current presentation is a thin veneer over the underlying data structures - that much is obvious to anyone who writes these things for a living (me included). Players do not need this - they need an immersive, contextual and convenient interface. The fact is that for most of us, the old visual interface was far superior. I think all we are asking for is that the new one is made to look and feel like the old one, and we can start adding improvements from there.
Does this make sense?
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Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
611
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Posted - 2012.05.25 17:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
I just love it when CSM show up and do a song and dance only to completely miss the point. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1618
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Posted - 2012.05.25 17:17:00 -
[34] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:Seleene, I think there would be less rage directed at the CSM if the handful of you who were on the Town Hall had said a bit more than "it's fine" in response to the suggestion that it was a ragestorm waiting to happen.
I fully appreciate that and, in hindsight, you're not wrong. I can only really explain my own feelings on this which is that because we're talking to CCP pretty much every day, we see that they aren't ignoring what's going on. The people directly responsible for this mess are, understandably, pretty stressed out. They should have paid more attention to the SiSi feedback before release but, at this point, they can't wave a magic wand and change things no matter how ~easy~ some self-appointed expert thinks it is.
Perhaps it's due to being a bit jaded after nearly 10 years and almost 'expecting' something to go wrong with ever major release that allows some of us to just shake our heads and hope for the best. The difference today compared to last year though is that CCP isn't just dropping a broken feature on us and walking away - they ARE going to fix this and (hopefully) the finished, final product will be something we all might come to appreciate.
Have no doubt though that the CSM doesn't have special game clients which are somehow different than everyone else's - some of us are pretty mad too, we're just spending our time trying to be constructive with the devs and help them filter through all of the communities righteous ang-... ummm... quality feedback. CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1618
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Posted - 2012.05.25 17:23:00 -
[35] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:I think the point that the technically savvy amongst us are trying to make is that in a client-server system such as eve there is a strong distinction between data (what's in the hangar) and presentation (how it's displayed).
We are trying to make the point that regardless of the reasons of the underlying DATA changes, the PRESENTATION should not have changed, and it can indeed be reverted IN ISOLATION.
I understand exactly what you mean and it's certainly something I want to get clarification on next week at the Summit. Perhaps there is a middle-ground that can be achieved until the presentation side is better developed? I honestly don't know until we do a bit of face to face but I will be relaying every non-NDA bit of info I can get on this onto Twitter as it happens and then blogging it later on.
Mournful Conciousness wrote:The current presentation is a thin veneer over the underlying data structures - that much is obvious to anyone who writes these things for a living (me included). Players do not need this - they need an immersive, contextual and convenient interface. The fact is that for most of us, the old visual interface was far superior. I think all we are asking for is that the new one is made to look and feel like the old one, and we can start adding improvements from there.
Does this make sense?
OFC it makes sense. It should be intuitive and easy to grasp. I can say with confidence that this particular point has been hammered home like a rusty nail in the skull to the people working on it. Striking the line between "OMFG WHERE THE **** IS THAT MODULE THIS SUCKS?!" and "Guys, if you would do this and move that there I could find my module!" is a daily struggle. CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2394
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Posted - 2012.05.25 17:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote: But as it seems, you want to get a response from the CSM, send them an EVE mail. Although chances are, of the entire lot of them, you'll only get one response.
There's a great reason for this - its entirely inefficient to have every single one of us reply to every single mail we get. We save time that we can be using to work with the developers by having a single person take the lead usually on each mail.
We could spend all our time raging on the forums, posting every day, and having every single CSM member reply to every single individual mail, but that would also mean we'd accomplish very little actual work.
Remember we see a lot of what CCP is working on for subsequent releases, whether or not we can speak to them publicly, and so naturally our level of rage at CCP will be lower than the publics, because just like with the inventory we were aware of not only the community's concerns, we were aware that CCP was already working on a set of fixes for the common complaints.
I know how frustrating this can be for some players, (remember it was only a month ago I was on the other side of the looking glass), but one of the realities of working on the CSM is that communication we share with CCP happens over skype and in private forums. Out priority simply has to be taking the time to write extensive notes and suggestions in those channels, where they will be most effective.
One last thing I've learned since taking office - players should know that developers don't respond well to raging jerks that call them names and accuse them of not doing anything, that kind of behavior is a quick ticket to having your posts ignored. That reaction is expected of every single change to the game, so you'll have to bring something more to the table if you want to make a difference. They respond much better to calm, constructive, respectful criticism, and frankly so will the CSM.
Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1323
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Posted - 2012.05.25 17:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Mostly we are not raging (in public) because it doesn't help. Those days are past now because CCP isn't dropping the ball on things the day after they put them in the game. That's why Soundwave pushed his update blog out - to prove that they aren't going to just walk away from this. As for the calls to 'revert' back to the old system, that's not going to happen. It can only evolve forward from here. If you think that the changes to the inventory system involve a "couple of lines in the client" then you have no idea of the complete and utter mess that is the 10 year old server code implemented by dozens of previous employees, many of whom no longer work at CCP. Speaking for myself, I'm not disagreeing with anyone that the inventory system was released far too early and needs to work better. The "unified inventory" has removed a boatload of previous inventory functionality and replaced it with a laggy click fest which is downright painful to use. I almost stabbed my monitor last night trying to find a couple mods to re-fit a ship before a fight. Right now I'm not raging, but I am annoyed, as my gameplay has been unecessarily made much harder and, for now, I am biting my tongue and giving CCP the opportunity to demonstrate that they will get this crap fixed quickly. Just because the CSM is not writing a ton of ~words~ about it constantly doesn't mean we don't understand what is going on or isn't going on. We have spent quite a lot of time this past couple weeks talking to the specific devs doing the Unified Inventory stuff, linking threads / posts and trying to help prioritize what needs fixing / iteration first. Several of the CSM members have blogs & twitter accounts and have been on several podcasts and EVE radio. We have published the schedule for the first summit next week well in advance and have asked for feedback on the schedule in Jita Park as well. Here is the thread specifically about the U.I. team. I'm PRETTY SURE that the Unified Inventory changes will be front and center in that session and after hours as well. Feel free to continue bashing the CSM; we're going to keep fighting for you anyway. Yep... and anything you just said doesn't still justify the fact that this junk remains in tranq until it is fixed. This might take weeks as the fundamental core of it is broken (persistent windows will be pretty hard to implement to something what wasn't built to handle those).
This should have remained in sisi. Warning bells were hammered with cannons. However now when it still got released and crap hit the fan, least they could do is to take it back down and fix it somewhere where it doesn't annoy us. In other words take it back to sisi and give me the old inventory system which allows me to play the game. When new system is closer to actual prime time, try it on live server again.
Tranq is for serious business - current version of Unified inventory certainly is not.
Get |
Mournful Conciousness
Special Situations TOHA Conglomerate
55
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Posted - 2012.05.25 17:57:00 -
[38] - Quote
Once again Seleene, thank you for taking the time to respond.
Seleene wrote: Perhaps there is a middle-ground that can be achieved until the presentation side is better developed?
Well, I would argue that the middle ground is to move the presentation layer to where we were, and then introduce small incremental improvements from there.
Please argue strongly for this on our behalf.
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1621
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Posted - 2012.05.25 18:02:00 -
[39] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:Yep... and anything you just said doesn't still justify the fact that this junk remains in tranq until it is fixed. This might take weeks as the fundamental core of it is broken (persistent windows will be pretty hard to implement to something what wasn't built to handle those).
I'm not trying to justify it; I think it's a mess and have to live with it too so I'm pretty motivated to push for something that works. Cripes, have you tried running several dozen industry jobs with this? CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1323
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
Two step wrote:Uh, wtf do you want us to say here? The new inventory system has some really sucky parts and some pretty nice parts. From what I have seen on the forums, you guys are doing a pretty good job of bitching to CCP all on your own. It is not about the bitching. It is about the fact that the thing remains in tranq. If they can't fix it in few days as the newest dev blog indicates, it should be taken down asap for further development.
Think it this way.
Your new car breaks down and needs few weeks of repairs. Will you be happy if they come to repair it to your yard every day so you can still use your broken car to do nothing - or will you be happy if you get replacement for the time it takes to get your own car back?
This is not rocket science.
Get |
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Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
87
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Posted - 2012.05.25 18:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote: Yep... and anything you just said doesn't still justify the fact that this junk remains in tranq until it is fixed. This might take weeks as the fundamental core of it is broken (persistent windows will be pretty hard to implement to something what wasn't built to handle those).
This should have remained in sisi. Warning bells were hammered with cannons. However now when it still got released and crap hit the fan, least they could do is to take it back down and fix it somewhere where it doesn't annoy us. In other words take it back to sisi and give me the old inventory system which allows me to play the game. When new system is closer to actual prime time, try it on live server again.
Tranq is for serious business - current version of Unified inventory certainly is not.
Yes. When we reported feedbacks back to CCP and we told to everyone, why so sucks this UI. CSM what did ? I tell to you, they are just told gushy words to everyone in the Eve Radio, what a successful thing is the new inventory system. Echo of CCP.
But the new inventory system on Sisi wasn't really fine. We tested every day and we instantly realized, it is not true what the CSM said. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1323
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:26:00 -
[42] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:Yep... and anything you just said doesn't still justify the fact that this junk remains in tranq until it is fixed. This might take weeks as the fundamental core of it is broken (persistent windows will be pretty hard to implement to something what wasn't built to handle those). I'm not trying to justify it; I think it's a mess and have to live with it too so I'm pretty motivated to push for something that works. Cripes, have you tried running several dozen industry jobs with this?
In matter of fact I did try and haven't touched my any other characters than this since. I don't even want to go pvp or do missions because buying and fitting one ship made me burn my nerves with this improved usability already.
At the moment I just want the persistent windows so I can open all the extra windows what I need daily in stations with my characters. Then I can close the nice side bar and drag and drop items back and forth like before, without all the extra scrolling up and down in a menu which is lagged and a mess of random entries. I don't usually even read what windows say. I know where them are and what is in them.
Simple tasks have turned to be nightmares. Everything takes longer and takes more clicks. There is no fun using folder menu. I rarely touch it in my operating system either as there are faster and more convenient methods to handle files. I have short cuts for all the most commonly used directories in my desktop. Opening 2 windows with those is much more smooth action than opening one and browsing it back and forth to find targets and cycling between them or opening new windows through those. You can think those as "ships" and "items"-buttons in old system. Current unified inventory doesn't provide any short cuts what so ever. Always when you start, you have to start from point 0.
There is plenty of more stuff which I would like to say "what I think" about this and the neocom for instance, but to be honest I'm so fed up already, that the patience to write nice constructive stuff has run very slim. It is better I stop here.
Get |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
640
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 19:32:00 -
[43] - Quote
If it wasn't for the fact I have the inability to travel at the will of a corporation based on my lack of a passport, and my contractual obligation to the US military, I'd run for CSM my damned self. And if I could, you better ****ing believe I'd be rolling in with a fistful of player concerns. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1622
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 20:38:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:If it wasn't for the fact I have the inability to travel at the will of a corporation based on my lack of a passport, and my contractual obligation to the US military, I'd run for CSM my damned self. And if I could, you better ****ing believe I'd be rolling in with a fistful of player concerns.
So you are saying that you would ROLL IN WITH FIST FULLS OF PLAYER RAGE like the Monk in Diablo 3 and round house kick the dev mobs so they go flying and then teleport in to lightning punch them to the face? CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
537
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 20:40:00 -
[45] - Quote
Except the cooldown timer would probably be close to a year. www.noirmercs.com Now Recruiting CSM7, CSM 4 |
None ofthe Above
186
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 20:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Jack Carrigan wrote:If it wasn't for the fact I have the inability to travel at the will of a corporation based on my lack of a passport, and my contractual obligation to the US military, I'd run for CSM my damned self. And if I could, you better ****ing believe I'd be rolling in with a fistful of player concerns. So you are saying that you would ROLL IN WITH FIST FULLS OF PLAYER RAGE like the Monk in Diablo 3 and round house kick the dev mobs so they go flying and then teleport in to lightning punch them to the face?
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Except the cooldown timer would probably be close to a year.
So the CSM missed the mark on this one. It happens.
Do a Mae Culpa, and get working on it.
Mocking the people who elected you while trying to say you didn't miss the mark... well that's probably not going to go over well.
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Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
87
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 20:56:00 -
[47] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:Seleene wrote:Jack Carrigan wrote:If it wasn't for the fact I have the inability to travel at the will of a corporation based on my lack of a passport, and my contractual obligation to the US military, I'd run for CSM my damned self. And if I could, you better ****ing believe I'd be rolling in with a fistful of player concerns. So you are saying that you would ROLL IN WITH FIST FULLS OF PLAYER RAGE like the Monk in Diablo 3 and round house kick the dev mobs so they go flying and then teleport in to lightning punch them to the face? Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Except the cooldown timer would probably be close to a year. So the CSM missed the mark on this one. It happens. Do a Mae Culpa, and get working on it. Mocking the people who elected you while trying to say you didn't miss the mark... well that's probably not going to go over well.
+1 |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
611
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 21:04:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:If it wasn't for the fact I have the inability to travel at the will of a corporation based on my lack of a passport, and my contractual obligation to the US military, I'd run for CSM my damned self. And if I could, you better ****ing believe I'd be rolling in with a fistful of player concerns.
Its scary.....and I realize this may shock you...but I might actually vote for you. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
537
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 21:04:00 -
[49] - Quote
Pretty sure we're already working on it, pretty sure Jack didnt elect either of us, pretty sure no one in this thread even knows what the point is in the first place.
But do continue to increase your post counts. I'll be over here doing real work to address real problems from players who just want their sandbox experience to be as seamless, rich, and enjoyable as possible, communicate when that isnt happening in a clear, reasonable way, and listen when the target of those communications respond.
Impossible to please whiners and trolling alts will be largely ignored. Outstanding ones will be made targets of ridicule for my amusement, and the amusement of voters at large.
Have a great day! www.noirmercs.com Now Recruiting CSM7, CSM 4 |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
611
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 21:06:00 -
[50] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Pretty sure we're already working on it, pretty sure Jack didnt elect either of us, pretty sure no one in this thread even knows what the point is in the first place.
But do continue to increase your post counts. I'll be over here doing real work to address real problems from players who just want their sandbox experience to be as seamless, rich, and enjoyable as possible, communicate when that isnt happening in a clear, reasonable way, and listen when the target of those communications respond.
Impossible to please whiners and trolling alts will be largely ignored. Outstanding ones will be made targets of ridicule for my amusement, and the amusement of voters at large.
Have a great day!
Yeah..sure..go ahead and run off to your little club houses and back rooms and twiters and facebooks and blogs and ignore the people who actually "live" here at eve gate/forums trying to better the game and hash things out.
Again..missing hte point and "doing your own thing" works great don't it? Keep that up. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2394
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 21:10:00 -
[51] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:So the CSM missed the mark on this one. It happens.
Do a Mae Culpa, and get working on it.
Mocking the people who elected you while trying to say you didn't miss the mark... well that's probably not going to go over well.
The only thing we missed the mark on was explaining to the players what we'd been up to, its not like we hadn't already been writing up feedback in the forums and referring the devs to all the relevant threads on the issue. That was my earlier point. Communication with the players is important and there's of course room for improvement, but our priority will always be making sure CCP has everything in detail first whether or not we than re-post all the same complaints in a public forum.
We're also allowed to have a sense of humor, especially when players come at us like we have a magic wand to revert the UI into its old system or charm CCP into obeying our very whim. It's important that players understand that the RIGHTEOUS FURY often exhibited in forum threads just isn't a tool the CSM has at their disposal, especially when leveled at developers who are already addressing the problems as we speak. It's obnoxious to be yelled at to go do something you're already doing, and it would quickly get the CSM ignored as much as it does players who abuse the same tactics.
Does it make for a quiet or boring CSM sometimes? Absolutely. But we're not here to entertain, inspire, march in protests or lead crusades, we're here to calmly, clearly, and effectively communicate player concerns to CCP in a manner that gets results. As you can already see by the most recent Dev Blog, the first batch of results is on the way. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
611
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 21:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:None ofthe Above wrote:So the CSM missed the mark on this one. It happens.
Do a Mae Culpa, and get working on it.
Mocking the people who elected you while trying to say you didn't miss the mark... well that's probably not going to go over well. The only thing we missed the mark on was explaining to the players what we'd been up to, its not like we hadn't already been writing up feedback in the forums and referring the devs to all the relevant threads on the issue. That was my earlier point. Communication with the players is important and there's of course room for improvement, but our priority will always be making sure CCP has everything in detail first whether or not we than re-post all the same complaints in a public forum. We're also allowed to have a sense of humor, especially when players come at us like we have a magic wand to revert the UI into its old system or charm CCP into obeying our very whim. It's important that players understand that the RIGHTEOUS FURY often exhibited in forum threads just isn't a tool the CSM has at their disposal, especially when leveled at developers who are already addressing the problems as we speak. It's obnoxious to be yelled at to go do something you're already doing, and it would quickly get the CSM ignored as much as it does players who abuse the same tactics. Does it make for a quiet or boring CSM sometimes? Absolutely. But we're not here to entertain, inspire, march in protests or lead crusades, we're here to calmly, clearly, and effectively communicate player concerns to CCP in a manner that gets results. As you can already see by the most recent Dev Blog, the first batch of results is on the way.
Maybe if you spent a little time just "hanging around" here and various areas of the forums you'd find us a little bit more receptive.
Because right now you only show up when the #### hits the fan.
I don't epxect you to snap your fingers and get things done.
I expect you to partiicpate actively and at least look the part of doing something....thats not much to ask for for all things considered. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2071
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 21:49:00 -
[53] - Quote
For some RL reasons I haven't had much chance to spend time with it and form and "official" position. What little I've seen of it I have to admit I found it confusing at best. As to how to untangle it and make it a net improvement from the old system, not sure at this point but I intend to spend some time with it this weekend and see if I could come up with anything as well as look for ideas from the players as to possible fixes.
Remember, the CSM is only advisory, its not like we have access to the source code and could make changes ourselves or we can order CCP to change things.
This looks to be one of those "waffle" features where the first attempt was less than ideal, but we need think about how to make the second "waffle" the one we wanted in the first place because in the current mess there are some good ideas (filters for example).
Issler |
Davon Mandra'thin
Solar Horizon Directive
36
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Posted - 2012.05.25 22:10:00 -
[54] - Quote
This whole matter is hugely exaggerated. I see a problem, but not one worth opening extra threads in the Assembly Hall for.
Calm the F*ck down and carry on. |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
88
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:28:00 -
[55] - Quote
"The Council of Stellar Management (CSM) is a player-elected council who represent the views of the members of the EVE Online community to CCP. "
Now, CSM guys just go to testserver feedback and go to https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=104383&find=unread and read the CSM guys at the first pages and read the other messages.
First day: CSM guy representing the UI : "Look at this heroic stuff. Just LOOK AT IT!!! It's the UI so you kind of have to look at it"
Their tongue so long and deep in CCP .... :P
He look at it, we tried it.
But check the reality and check the testers answers after few days.
:The new inventory system is bugged, I logged in last night and just about shat myself, as ALL of my BPO's, ore and mods were missing from my main station.
At first I thought it was just a filterning glitch, but after a good 30 mins of playing with filters & also checking the assets window, it was clear all my good ships and stuff from this station was gone, where stuff I had elsewhere was not and still showing.
at first I thought I may have been hacked, despite having rock solid AV/malware protection and intelligent enough to avoid the usual hacker pitfalls.
Then I stumbled into the Science and industry section to check on some queued jobs, and oddly, the BPOs were all shown on the blueprint tab there ... I tried to Manufacture one, and it complained that I had no ore (further proof it wasnt just filtering)
oddly, after doing this, that single BPO appeared in my item hanger. I repeated this process and got all my BPOs back,
next I went on to trying to find my missing ores and mods, now thinking this was just a glitch. On the search portion of the Assets window, I punched up Tritanium, low and behold it was there, but still did not show on the ALL items tab .. Bizzare huh ?
So I basically spent hours contracting all the items to another charcacter, and then back again and got most of it back .. really annoying.
Oh, and damn, CCP has no phone support >? and my petitions so far have gone unacknowledged, even though I now technically have all my stuff.
anyone else experience something like this ? "
"ok, I just logged into sisi and am trying it out. For the love of god do not replace our current UI with this!!!!! I cant even open my orca corp hangers in a separate window, and I dont like having to spawn my custom windows with shift clicking. And when I dock, I cant just keep my current windows open, I have to reuse one of them to start going down a list to start spawning more... I hate this. I cant say this enough. this is not a step forward for my inventory management. Release this as a new feature that does not replace my current windows, or don't release it at all. I have been with eve since Beta in 2003, and if you replace my windows with this crap, then I don't see myself sticking around for much longer. I don't mean to put down your great work and ideas with this. But this is an idea that needs lots of refinement and feedback before anyone should come close to the idea of replacing our current windows with it. The current UI is great because it allows everyone to customize it so heavily and simply... This one size fits all window does not come close for me. Thanks for the effort though guys... I do like being able to see estimated values, that's neat."
"I hope the devs are looking at the threads in Test Server Feedback and the almost overwhelmingly negative feedback.
Do not implement this.
If you haven't seen them..
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=104539&find=unread
I'm not going to list all the problems here read the threads above."
ETC-ETC-ETC
How many feedback we wrote ? Tippia create a video from the bugs ? But CSM guys just repeated their bsh**t in Eve Radio, the new UI is fantastic balbabla. But they never tried how many seconds need to open the inventory at POS, what a mess for a corphangar manager. So hard handling when player trying to salvage and looting etc. |
None ofthe Above
186
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Posted - 2012.05.25 22:46:00 -
[56] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Pretty sure we're already working on it, pretty sure Jack didnt elect either of us, pretty sure no one in this thread even knows what the point is in the first place.
But do continue to increase your post counts. I'll be over here doing real work to address real problems from players who just want their sandbox experience to be as seamless, rich, and enjoyable as possible, communicate when that isnt happening in a clear, reasonable way, and listen when the target of those communications respond.
Impossible to please whiners and trolling alts will be largely ignored. Outstanding ones will be made targets of ridicule for my amusement, and the amusement of voters at large.
Have a great day!
I'd be tempted to give you a pass on this particular issue, I know you where heavily focused on the War Dec changes (for which there are other love/hate threads), but your attitude frankly sucks.
Stop trying to be Mitanni. Its not helping.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2395
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Posted - 2012.05.25 22:49:00 -
[57] - Quote
We have already seen those threads and pointed them out to the developers. Like I said, this thread is predominantly angry individuals ordering us to do what we've already been doing. You can link the threads again one more time if you'd like, or start even more threads linking old threads, but its neither necessary nor helpful.
The dev's are quite aware of these issues and are working to address many of them. Yelling at the CSM (who by the way have nothing to do with bug fixes and customer service - we work with development, not the GM's) won't make this process go any faster. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
641
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Posted - 2012.05.25 22:57:00 -
[58] - Quote
Seleene- Hardly, as I would review the ones that had obvious merits and dismiss the ones that stunk of blatant emo-rage. But mocking those who vote to keep you in office is hardly a way to inspire confidence. You are a representative of the players, but are doing a fantastic job to lose respect, which is what wins votes and thus elections.
Drake- As shocking as that is, at least I listen to people and take advice or suggestions under advisement. I don't usually agree with you, but here I fully agree. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
None ofthe Above
186
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Posted - 2012.05.25 22:57:00 -
[59] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:None ofthe Above wrote:So the CSM missed the mark on this one. It happens.
Do a Mae Culpa, and get working on it.
Mocking the people who elected you while trying to say you didn't miss the mark... well that's probably not going to go over well. The only thing we missed the mark on was explaining to the players what we'd been up to, its not like we hadn't already been writing up feedback in the forums and referring the devs to all the relevant threads on the issue. That was my earlier point. Communication with the players is important and there's of course room for improvement, but our priority will always be making sure CCP has everything in detail first whether or not we than re-post all the same complaints in a public forum. We're also allowed to have a sense of humor, especially when players come at us like we have a magic wand to revert the UI into its old system or charm CCP into obeying our very whim. It's important that players understand that the RIGHTEOUS FURY often exhibited in forum threads just isn't a tool the CSM has at their disposal, especially when leveled at developers who are already addressing the problems as we speak. It's obnoxious to be yelled at to go do something you're already doing, and it would quickly get the CSM ignored as much as it does players who abuse the same tactics. Does it make for a quiet or boring CSM sometimes? Absolutely. But we're not here to entertain, inspire, march in protests or lead crusades, we're here to calmly, clearly, and effectively communicate player concerns to CCP in a manner that gets results. As you can already see by the most recent Dev Blog, the first batch of results is on the way.
It happens. There was a lot to keep on top of in Inferno that looked like it might turn out poorly. Wardecs, FW, first steps at ship balancing.
My main point at this juncture is that being mocking and dismissive of folks that have legitimate concerns and criticisms is not constructive. It only serves to alienate you from the playerbase. Their anger is feedback to be passed on and learn from, not something that needs to be repressed.
People (by and large) don't expect you to run CCP, they do expect you to listen to and represent them. They get understandably angry if they feel that is not happening.
Is that being unreasonable and worthy of mockery?
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Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
613
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Posted - 2012.05.25 22:59:00 -
[60] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote: Drake- As shocking as that is, at least I listen to people and take advice or suggestions under advisement. I don't usually agree with you, but here I fully agree.
We may not see eye to eye...but we share the same passion for the game.
Its funny..people who hate each other or consider each other enemies will all have one comon factor....this game is the best thing since sliced bread...and we'll be damned if we let **** ruin it. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
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