Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jack Parr
University of Caille Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 16:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Am I missing the forum thread started by our august CSM members trying to address our concerns about the inventory rage storm?
Apparently everyone on the CSM loves the new inventory interface and wants it EXACTLY how CCP implemented it. But if people are expressing concerns about how it negatively affects their game play isn't it the job of the CSM to facilitate our concerns to CCP?
Do we even need the CSM? I mean if we have to go directly to CCP with our concerns, doesn't that simply mean we wasted our time electing several useless people who only want to fly for a free vacation to Iceland?
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average goon." -á -á-á - The Mittani |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
606
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jack Parr wrote:Am I missing the forum thread started by our august CSM members trying to address our concerns about the inventory rage storm?
Apparently everyone on the CSM loves the new inventory interface and wants it EXACTLY how CCP implemented it. But if people are expressing concerns about how it negatively affects their game play isn't it the job of the CSM to facilitate our concerns to CCP?
Do we even need the CSM? I mean if we have to go directly to CCP with our concerns, doesn't that simply mean we wasted our time electing several useless people who only want to fly for a free vacation to Iceland?
When is the angry mob going to actually "engage brain" and start to realize the CSM is nothing more than a mouth piece....they have no power...no influence..no sway.
CCP can tell them to "step off" anytime they want.
Oh sure it might help if CSM actaully bothered to "participate" (Theres a concept) in day to day posts and assembly hall.
But lets be honest here....your expecations of what CSM can and can't do are seriously out of this solar system...never mind the world. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
67
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
They don't pretend to care unless it screws their alliance. The new and improved inventory screws everyone equally, so they're okay with that. |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
631
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hell, if they'd post in Assembly Hall once a week that'd be awesome, and I think more ideas could be collated and run through the system to be processed for actually applying them to EVE. But as it seems, you want to get a response from the CSM, send them an EVE mail. Although chances are, of the entire lot of them, you'll only get one response. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
607
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:Hell, if they'd post in Assembly Hall once a week that'd be awesome, and I think more ideas could be collated and run through the system to be processed for actually applying them to EVE. But as it seems, you want to get a response from the CSM, send them an EVE mail. Although chances are, of the entire lot of them, you'll only get one response.
Or they will spam the #### out of you.
CSM (majority of) are more interested in their free trip to iceland and getting fame more so than actually helping us out. Not that they could do much in hte first place.
*Damnit floppie...you dang will better run for next terms CSM!!!* ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
777
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 20:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
The only ones that actually care about communicating with players didn't get elected, so don't expect much. |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
634
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 22:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Draconis, wrong as usual. I actually had some communications with the CSM lately, and of the entire lot, got one reply. And for the love of God get off of everyone's ****. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
608
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 23:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:Draconis, wrong as usual. I actually had some communications with the CSM lately, and of the entire lot, got one reply. And for the love of God get off of everyone's ****.
Uh..yeah...sure....just keep right on going.
EVE Mail means nothing....Private convos mean nothing.
We need a public face on the CSM.
And right now that public face is a crock. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
634
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 00:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
You act like that is a new thing. The whole thing is a crock as only the major power blocs are ever represented and those candidates who seek to represent the high or low sec crowds typically gets ROFLstomped in votes and then all 10058 of those get wasted when the public face of those meant to represent the players turns out to be a drunken prick who doesn't even play, and promotes not only violation of EULA but the various laws in place against cyberbullying.
With that I say abolish the CSM and come up with a better representative system that doesn't include a free vacation to Iceland and actually promotes more of an actual PLAYER driven system than a politically driven system that can be tainted by hundreds of alt accounts set in place in time so that they can vote only to vanish again after elections.
My vote is zero confidence in the CSM. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
608
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 05:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:You act like that is a new thing. The whole thing is a crock as only the major power blocs are ever represented and those candidates who seek to represent the high or low sec crowds typically gets ROFLstomped in votes and then all 10058 of those get wasted when the public face of those meant to represent the players turns out to be a drunken prick who doesn't even play, and promotes not only violation of EULA but the various laws in place against cyberbullying.
With that I say abolish the CSM and come up with a better representative system that doesn't include a free vacation to Iceland and actually promotes more of an actual PLAYER driven system than a politically driven system that can be tainted by hundreds of alt accounts set in place in time so that they can vote only to vanish again after elections.
My vote is zero confidence in the CSM.
I'd agree with that for about 95% of it...give or take.
And no its not new.
Its just worse than it was before.
I didn't even vote because no one was fit to be voted for in the first place. Not that it matters a damn.
Abolishment of the CSM accomplishes nothing because it can still be made to be a good thing.
Like I said...CSM needs to be more public here at the forums...to participate actively.... its not perfect..but its a good start. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|
|
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
84
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 06:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
I am on a very slippery slope. It all started when i found myself agreeing with MXZF on bad threads.
then i found myself agreeing with a goon
and now most recently , with Drake Draconis.
I do not agree with the way they convey themselves, but the core message is often the right one.
What exactly does CSM do if it isn't moderate the forum talking to players and collecting ideas to present to CCP?
Where were the CSM responses in the UI threads? Other then Hans, talking about FW (of which i am not qualified to speak on) I haven't seen a CSM tag on anything that is currently important.
...... shoot, or on things that aren't. there is a conspicuous absence of CSM responses and yet i still get spam mail from them about voting. I hear more from my city councilman then from the CSM. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Ships to goo calc - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107898 |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
635
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 07:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
I personally voted for Roc Wieler because I liked the majority of his ideas, as well as the ideals that he represented.
Here's the thing, the only member of the CSM I have heard **** from or about is Trebor Daehdoow, and that was in response to an EVE mail I sent the entire CSM. He took the time to reply, for which I can give him credit, unlike the rest of the council.
I actually did hear from other members of the former CSM, but that was only around election time when they were scratching for votes. I will always support the people with the ideas and ideals which align most with the things that will be in the best interests of New Eden, EVE Online, and the players.
But honestly, with the current CSM, I am less than ****ing thrilled, because they haven't said a damned thing to anyone about what the hell is going on, or if anything is even being done. And that is just wrong.
They are supposed to be the voice of the players. Not those who say their piece, do things to benefit their alliances, and pass it off as for the good of all. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1247
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 11:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
In fairness the CSM has little ability to influence which way things are going until you are in the room in person. You can make all the pretty arguments on forums you want but nothing actually ended up happening until we were able to face to face say that somebody's idea was dumb. Also just cause they aren't posting doesn't mean they aren't reading and making up their own minds based on your input.
If you want a personalized response I recommend you mail a CSM member directly. It's much MUCH more effective. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
608
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 14:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:I personally voted for Roc Wieler because I liked the majority of his ideas, as well as the ideals that he represented.
Here's the thing, the only member of the CSM I have heard **** from or about is Trebor Daehdoow, and that was in response to an EVE mail I sent the entire CSM. He took the time to reply, for which I can give him credit, unlike the rest of the council.
I actually did hear from other members of the former CSM, but that was only around election time when they were scratching for votes. I will always support the people with the ideas and ideals which align most with the things that will be in the best interests of New Eden, EVE Online, and the players.
But honestly, with the current CSM, I am less than ****ing thrilled, because they haven't said a damned thing to anyone about what the hell is going on, or if anything is even being done. And that is just wrong.
They are supposed to be the voice of the players. Not those who say their piece, do things to benefit their alliances, and pass it off as for the good of all.
Pretty much this.
And Trebor Daehdoow is a ####ing joke.
He's a political shovinast (sp?) who will stop at nothing to get an extra vote.
He only shows up and says a few things when it makes him look good in the spotlight.
I have seen little to nothing in the way of results as far as CSM is concerned.
In any rate... I don't expect CSM to ever produce results in a direct sense.
What I do expect is for them to do their ####ing job in representing the community as a whole and actually show up and participate on a level that makes it seem like they are at least trying.
None of this EVE Mail bullcrap. No private convos behind closed doors.
Actual public participation in Assembly Hall and Feedback threads so the general population knows they exist...knows they can be approached and talked to.
The only time I ever see them show up in frequency is voting time.
And that frankly... is an insult and makes me wonder how the hell they get anywhere in the first place.
Abolish CSM? No.
Light a fire under their asses and get them to do their ####ing job and make an effort at it?
Hell Yes. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|
Cyprus Black
Novatech Armada En Garde
208
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 21:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
I have absolutely no idea who the current CSMs are nor what they're up to. I don't know what issues they're working with CCP on nor have I seen anything from then regarding.... well anything really.
Do we even have CSM members this time around? I honestly don't know. You wouldn't complain about needles when you get a tattoo. So why would you complain about PvP when you play EVE? |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
610
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 21:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:I have absolutely no idea who the current CSMs are nor what they're up to. I don't know what issues they're working with CCP on nor have I seen anything from then regarding.... well anything really.
Do we even have CSM members this time around? I honestly don't know.
Exactly.
As soon as fanfest was over...aside from the mitanni-gate incident....there's been nothing but silence from the CSM.
Oh I know they are there.
But that's all I know.
That's pathetic. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
782
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 02:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hate to say it, but I miss Anhk's CSM.
At least then we knew what was going on, even if it was pointless spoons. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
610
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 03:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Hate to say it, but I miss Anhk's CSM.
At least then we knew what was going on, even if it was pointless spoons.
*Shudders* I remember those days.... not quite desperate to say that at least. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
672
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 07:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
Becasue they totally lack any decisive leadership or guiudance? Funny that. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Yelena Fedorova
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 08:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
csm is being csm... just worse this round |
|
Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
51
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 08:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
CSM get of your flabby arse and get to work, this is turning into Incarna 2.0 ffs communicate , a large amount to the community hates the new inventory. CCP needs to move on this. |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
724
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 09:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
You know, if me or chribbra, or Tippia were your CSM we'd be talking and arguing about change all the time! why you too elect forum warriors? then surprised when they don't post? Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 salesXbox 360: 2.2 millionPlayStation 3: 1.5 millionPC: 500,000 |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
62
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 11:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jack Parr wrote:Am I missing the forum thread started by our august CSM members trying to address our concerns about the inventory rage storm?
Apparently everyone on the CSM loves the new inventory interface and wants it EXACTLY how CCP implemented it. But if people are expressing concerns about how it negatively affects their game play isn't it the job of the CSM to facilitate our concerns to CCP?
Do we even need the CSM? I mean if we have to go directly to CCP with our concerns, doesn't that simply mean we wasted our time electing several useless people who only want to fly for a free vacation to Iceland?
Because they got free tickets to Island ? + ai give to you a wise advice, forget Draconis idiot he is just a sick troll. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1477
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 11:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
burn the csm with fire |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
1963
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 16:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Uh, wtf do you want us to say here? The new inventory system has some really sucky parts and some pretty nice parts. From what I have seen on the forums, you guys are doing a pretty good job of bitching to CCP all on your own. CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
|
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
611
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 16:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
Two step wrote:Uh, wtf do you want us to say here? The new inventory system has some really sucky parts and some pretty nice parts. From what I have seen on the forums, you guys are doing a pretty good job of bitching to CCP all on your own.
Try reading again.
This has nothing to do with the invetory system...as far as what I was getting at.
If anything you just proved my point. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 16:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
Two step wrote:Uh, wtf do you want us to say here? The new inventory system has some really sucky parts and some pretty nice parts. From what I have seen on the forums, you guys are doing a pretty good job of bitching to CCP all on your own.
What is the pretty nice part of this inventory ? The bugfest ? The mess ? The unusable and really hard handling part ?
Dont forget you guys , you are here not for the CCP a**l*ck*ng, you are here for the protections of players. Use your job,that's why you are elected to CSM. |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1615
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 16:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mostly we are not raging (in public) because it doesn't help. Those days are past now because CCP isn't dropping the ball on things the day after they put them in the game. That's why Soundwave pushed his update blog out - to prove that they aren't going to just walk away from this.
As for the calls to 'revert' back to the old system, that's not going to happen. It can only evolve forward from here. If you think that the changes to the inventory system involve a "couple of lines in the client" then you have no idea of the complete and utter mess that is the 10 year old server code implemented by dozens of previous employees, many of whom no longer work at CCP.
Speaking for myself, I'm not disagreeing with anyone that the inventory system was released far too early and needs to work better. The "unified inventory" has removed a boatload of previous inventory functionality and replaced it with a laggy click fest which is downright painful to use. I almost stabbed my monitor last night trying to find a couple mods to re-fit a ship before a fight.
Right now I'm not raging, but I am annoyed, as my gameplay has been unecessarily made much harder and, for now, I am biting my tongue and giving CCP the opportunity to demonstrate that they will get this crap fixed quickly. Just because the CSM is not writing a ton of ~words~ about it constantly doesn't mean we don't understand what is going on or isn't going on. We have spent quite a lot of time this past couple weeks talking to the specific devs doing the Unified Inventory stuff, linking threads / posts and trying to help prioritize what needs fixing / iteration first.
Several of the CSM members have blogs & twitter accounts and have been on several podcasts and EVE radio. We have published the schedule for the first summit next week well in advance and have asked for feedback on the schedule in Jita Park as well. Here is the thread specifically about the U.I. team. I'm PRETTY SURE that the Unified Inventory changes will be front and center in that session and after hours as well.
Feel free to continue bashing the CSM; we're going to keep fighting for you anyway. CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Simvastatin Montelukast
Irregular Warfare The Jagged Alliance
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 16:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
Good Words Seleene
Do you think part of the reason the unified inventory system went live:: war against bots? |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
274
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Yay a step in the right direction |
|
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
209
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:05:00 -
[31] - Quote
Seleene, I think there would be less rage directed at the CSM if the handful of you who were on the Town Hall had said a bit more than "it's fine" in response to the suggestion that it was a ragestorm waiting to happen.
I'm glad to see they're not dropping the ball on it post-release, but in my eyes - and those of many others - several members of the CSM dropped their own ball when they gave that response to the issue in a public venue.
It's pretty disheartening, especially for those of us who voted for those CSM members in particular. :( |
Mournful Conciousness
Special Situations TOHA Conglomerate
54
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Mostly we are not raging (in public) because it doesn't help. Those days are past now because CCP isn't As for the calls to 'revert' back to the old system, that's not going to happen. It can only evolve forward from here. If you think that the changes to the inventory system involve a "couple of lines in the client" then you have no idea of the complete and utter mess that is the 10 year old server code implemented by dozens of previous employees, many of whom no longer work at CCP.
Thank you for the encouraging words Seleene.
I think the point that the technically savvy amongst us are trying to make is that in a client-server system such as eve there is a strong distinction between data (what's in the hangar) and presentation (how it's displayed).
We are trying to make the point that regardless of the reasons of the underlying DATA changes, the PRESENTATION should not have changed, and it can indeed be reverted IN ISOLATION.
No, it's not "a couple of lines" but neither does it require re-work on the server (I am making the assumption here that CCP are using industry standard best-practice here - something along the lines of the controller-model-view paradigm).
The current presentation is a thin veneer over the underlying data structures - that much is obvious to anyone who writes these things for a living (me included). Players do not need this - they need an immersive, contextual and convenient interface. The fact is that for most of us, the old visual interface was far superior. I think all we are asking for is that the new one is made to look and feel like the old one, and we can start adding improvements from there.
Does this make sense?
|
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
611
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
I just love it when CSM show up and do a song and dance only to completely miss the point. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1618
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:17:00 -
[34] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:Seleene, I think there would be less rage directed at the CSM if the handful of you who were on the Town Hall had said a bit more than "it's fine" in response to the suggestion that it was a ragestorm waiting to happen.
I fully appreciate that and, in hindsight, you're not wrong. I can only really explain my own feelings on this which is that because we're talking to CCP pretty much every day, we see that they aren't ignoring what's going on. The people directly responsible for this mess are, understandably, pretty stressed out. They should have paid more attention to the SiSi feedback before release but, at this point, they can't wave a magic wand and change things no matter how ~easy~ some self-appointed expert thinks it is.
Perhaps it's due to being a bit jaded after nearly 10 years and almost 'expecting' something to go wrong with ever major release that allows some of us to just shake our heads and hope for the best. The difference today compared to last year though is that CCP isn't just dropping a broken feature on us and walking away - they ARE going to fix this and (hopefully) the finished, final product will be something we all might come to appreciate.
Have no doubt though that the CSM doesn't have special game clients which are somehow different than everyone else's - some of us are pretty mad too, we're just spending our time trying to be constructive with the devs and help them filter through all of the communities righteous ang-... ummm... quality feedback. CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1618
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:23:00 -
[35] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:I think the point that the technically savvy amongst us are trying to make is that in a client-server system such as eve there is a strong distinction between data (what's in the hangar) and presentation (how it's displayed).
We are trying to make the point that regardless of the reasons of the underlying DATA changes, the PRESENTATION should not have changed, and it can indeed be reverted IN ISOLATION.
I understand exactly what you mean and it's certainly something I want to get clarification on next week at the Summit. Perhaps there is a middle-ground that can be achieved until the presentation side is better developed? I honestly don't know until we do a bit of face to face but I will be relaying every non-NDA bit of info I can get on this onto Twitter as it happens and then blogging it later on.
Mournful Conciousness wrote:The current presentation is a thin veneer over the underlying data structures - that much is obvious to anyone who writes these things for a living (me included). Players do not need this - they need an immersive, contextual and convenient interface. The fact is that for most of us, the old visual interface was far superior. I think all we are asking for is that the new one is made to look and feel like the old one, and we can start adding improvements from there.
Does this make sense?
OFC it makes sense. It should be intuitive and easy to grasp. I can say with confidence that this particular point has been hammered home like a rusty nail in the skull to the people working on it. Striking the line between "OMFG WHERE THE **** IS THAT MODULE THIS SUCKS?!" and "Guys, if you would do this and move that there I could find my module!" is a daily struggle. CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2394
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote: But as it seems, you want to get a response from the CSM, send them an EVE mail. Although chances are, of the entire lot of them, you'll only get one response.
There's a great reason for this - its entirely inefficient to have every single one of us reply to every single mail we get. We save time that we can be using to work with the developers by having a single person take the lead usually on each mail.
We could spend all our time raging on the forums, posting every day, and having every single CSM member reply to every single individual mail, but that would also mean we'd accomplish very little actual work.
Remember we see a lot of what CCP is working on for subsequent releases, whether or not we can speak to them publicly, and so naturally our level of rage at CCP will be lower than the publics, because just like with the inventory we were aware of not only the community's concerns, we were aware that CCP was already working on a set of fixes for the common complaints.
I know how frustrating this can be for some players, (remember it was only a month ago I was on the other side of the looking glass), but one of the realities of working on the CSM is that communication we share with CCP happens over skype and in private forums. Out priority simply has to be taking the time to write extensive notes and suggestions in those channels, where they will be most effective.
One last thing I've learned since taking office - players should know that developers don't respond well to raging jerks that call them names and accuse them of not doing anything, that kind of behavior is a quick ticket to having your posts ignored. That reaction is expected of every single change to the game, so you'll have to bring something more to the table if you want to make a difference. They respond much better to calm, constructive, respectful criticism, and frankly so will the CSM.
Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
|
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1323
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Mostly we are not raging (in public) because it doesn't help. Those days are past now because CCP isn't dropping the ball on things the day after they put them in the game. That's why Soundwave pushed his update blog out - to prove that they aren't going to just walk away from this. As for the calls to 'revert' back to the old system, that's not going to happen. It can only evolve forward from here. If you think that the changes to the inventory system involve a "couple of lines in the client" then you have no idea of the complete and utter mess that is the 10 year old server code implemented by dozens of previous employees, many of whom no longer work at CCP. Speaking for myself, I'm not disagreeing with anyone that the inventory system was released far too early and needs to work better. The "unified inventory" has removed a boatload of previous inventory functionality and replaced it with a laggy click fest which is downright painful to use. I almost stabbed my monitor last night trying to find a couple mods to re-fit a ship before a fight. Right now I'm not raging, but I am annoyed, as my gameplay has been unecessarily made much harder and, for now, I am biting my tongue and giving CCP the opportunity to demonstrate that they will get this crap fixed quickly. Just because the CSM is not writing a ton of ~words~ about it constantly doesn't mean we don't understand what is going on or isn't going on. We have spent quite a lot of time this past couple weeks talking to the specific devs doing the Unified Inventory stuff, linking threads / posts and trying to help prioritize what needs fixing / iteration first. Several of the CSM members have blogs & twitter accounts and have been on several podcasts and EVE radio. We have published the schedule for the first summit next week well in advance and have asked for feedback on the schedule in Jita Park as well. Here is the thread specifically about the U.I. team. I'm PRETTY SURE that the Unified Inventory changes will be front and center in that session and after hours as well. Feel free to continue bashing the CSM; we're going to keep fighting for you anyway. Yep... and anything you just said doesn't still justify the fact that this junk remains in tranq until it is fixed. This might take weeks as the fundamental core of it is broken (persistent windows will be pretty hard to implement to something what wasn't built to handle those).
This should have remained in sisi. Warning bells were hammered with cannons. However now when it still got released and crap hit the fan, least they could do is to take it back down and fix it somewhere where it doesn't annoy us. In other words take it back to sisi and give me the old inventory system which allows me to play the game. When new system is closer to actual prime time, try it on live server again.
Tranq is for serious business - current version of Unified inventory certainly is not.
Get |
Mournful Conciousness
Special Situations TOHA Conglomerate
55
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:57:00 -
[38] - Quote
Once again Seleene, thank you for taking the time to respond.
Seleene wrote: Perhaps there is a middle-ground that can be achieved until the presentation side is better developed?
Well, I would argue that the middle ground is to move the presentation layer to where we were, and then introduce small incremental improvements from there.
Please argue strongly for this on our behalf.
|
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1621
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:02:00 -
[39] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:Yep... and anything you just said doesn't still justify the fact that this junk remains in tranq until it is fixed. This might take weeks as the fundamental core of it is broken (persistent windows will be pretty hard to implement to something what wasn't built to handle those).
I'm not trying to justify it; I think it's a mess and have to live with it too so I'm pretty motivated to push for something that works. Cripes, have you tried running several dozen industry jobs with this? CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1323
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
Two step wrote:Uh, wtf do you want us to say here? The new inventory system has some really sucky parts and some pretty nice parts. From what I have seen on the forums, you guys are doing a pretty good job of bitching to CCP all on your own. It is not about the bitching. It is about the fact that the thing remains in tranq. If they can't fix it in few days as the newest dev blog indicates, it should be taken down asap for further development.
Think it this way.
Your new car breaks down and needs few weeks of repairs. Will you be happy if they come to repair it to your yard every day so you can still use your broken car to do nothing - or will you be happy if you get replacement for the time it takes to get your own car back?
This is not rocket science.
Get |
|
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
87
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote: Yep... and anything you just said doesn't still justify the fact that this junk remains in tranq until it is fixed. This might take weeks as the fundamental core of it is broken (persistent windows will be pretty hard to implement to something what wasn't built to handle those).
This should have remained in sisi. Warning bells were hammered with cannons. However now when it still got released and crap hit the fan, least they could do is to take it back down and fix it somewhere where it doesn't annoy us. In other words take it back to sisi and give me the old inventory system which allows me to play the game. When new system is closer to actual prime time, try it on live server again.
Tranq is for serious business - current version of Unified inventory certainly is not.
Yes. When we reported feedbacks back to CCP and we told to everyone, why so sucks this UI. CSM what did ? I tell to you, they are just told gushy words to everyone in the Eve Radio, what a successful thing is the new inventory system. Echo of CCP.
But the new inventory system on Sisi wasn't really fine. We tested every day and we instantly realized, it is not true what the CSM said. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1323
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 18:26:00 -
[42] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:Yep... and anything you just said doesn't still justify the fact that this junk remains in tranq until it is fixed. This might take weeks as the fundamental core of it is broken (persistent windows will be pretty hard to implement to something what wasn't built to handle those). I'm not trying to justify it; I think it's a mess and have to live with it too so I'm pretty motivated to push for something that works. Cripes, have you tried running several dozen industry jobs with this?
In matter of fact I did try and haven't touched my any other characters than this since. I don't even want to go pvp or do missions because buying and fitting one ship made me burn my nerves with this improved usability already.
At the moment I just want the persistent windows so I can open all the extra windows what I need daily in stations with my characters. Then I can close the nice side bar and drag and drop items back and forth like before, without all the extra scrolling up and down in a menu which is lagged and a mess of random entries. I don't usually even read what windows say. I know where them are and what is in them.
Simple tasks have turned to be nightmares. Everything takes longer and takes more clicks. There is no fun using folder menu. I rarely touch it in my operating system either as there are faster and more convenient methods to handle files. I have short cuts for all the most commonly used directories in my desktop. Opening 2 windows with those is much more smooth action than opening one and browsing it back and forth to find targets and cycling between them or opening new windows through those. You can think those as "ships" and "items"-buttons in old system. Current unified inventory doesn't provide any short cuts what so ever. Always when you start, you have to start from point 0.
There is plenty of more stuff which I would like to say "what I think" about this and the neocom for instance, but to be honest I'm so fed up already, that the patience to write nice constructive stuff has run very slim. It is better I stop here.
Get |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
640
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 19:32:00 -
[43] - Quote
If it wasn't for the fact I have the inability to travel at the will of a corporation based on my lack of a passport, and my contractual obligation to the US military, I'd run for CSM my damned self. And if I could, you better ****ing believe I'd be rolling in with a fistful of player concerns. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1622
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 20:38:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:If it wasn't for the fact I have the inability to travel at the will of a corporation based on my lack of a passport, and my contractual obligation to the US military, I'd run for CSM my damned self. And if I could, you better ****ing believe I'd be rolling in with a fistful of player concerns.
So you are saying that you would ROLL IN WITH FIST FULLS OF PLAYER RAGE like the Monk in Diablo 3 and round house kick the dev mobs so they go flying and then teleport in to lightning punch them to the face? CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
537
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 20:40:00 -
[45] - Quote
Except the cooldown timer would probably be close to a year. www.noirmercs.com Now Recruiting CSM7, CSM 4 |
None ofthe Above
186
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 20:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Jack Carrigan wrote:If it wasn't for the fact I have the inability to travel at the will of a corporation based on my lack of a passport, and my contractual obligation to the US military, I'd run for CSM my damned self. And if I could, you better ****ing believe I'd be rolling in with a fistful of player concerns. So you are saying that you would ROLL IN WITH FIST FULLS OF PLAYER RAGE like the Monk in Diablo 3 and round house kick the dev mobs so they go flying and then teleport in to lightning punch them to the face?
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Except the cooldown timer would probably be close to a year.
So the CSM missed the mark on this one. It happens.
Do a Mae Culpa, and get working on it.
Mocking the people who elected you while trying to say you didn't miss the mark... well that's probably not going to go over well.
|
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
87
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 20:56:00 -
[47] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:Seleene wrote:Jack Carrigan wrote:If it wasn't for the fact I have the inability to travel at the will of a corporation based on my lack of a passport, and my contractual obligation to the US military, I'd run for CSM my damned self. And if I could, you better ****ing believe I'd be rolling in with a fistful of player concerns. So you are saying that you would ROLL IN WITH FIST FULLS OF PLAYER RAGE like the Monk in Diablo 3 and round house kick the dev mobs so they go flying and then teleport in to lightning punch them to the face? Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Except the cooldown timer would probably be close to a year. So the CSM missed the mark on this one. It happens. Do a Mae Culpa, and get working on it. Mocking the people who elected you while trying to say you didn't miss the mark... well that's probably not going to go over well.
+1 |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
611
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 21:04:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:If it wasn't for the fact I have the inability to travel at the will of a corporation based on my lack of a passport, and my contractual obligation to the US military, I'd run for CSM my damned self. And if I could, you better ****ing believe I'd be rolling in with a fistful of player concerns.
Its scary.....and I realize this may shock you...but I might actually vote for you. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
537
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 21:04:00 -
[49] - Quote
Pretty sure we're already working on it, pretty sure Jack didnt elect either of us, pretty sure no one in this thread even knows what the point is in the first place.
But do continue to increase your post counts. I'll be over here doing real work to address real problems from players who just want their sandbox experience to be as seamless, rich, and enjoyable as possible, communicate when that isnt happening in a clear, reasonable way, and listen when the target of those communications respond.
Impossible to please whiners and trolling alts will be largely ignored. Outstanding ones will be made targets of ridicule for my amusement, and the amusement of voters at large.
Have a great day! www.noirmercs.com Now Recruiting CSM7, CSM 4 |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
611
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 21:06:00 -
[50] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Pretty sure we're already working on it, pretty sure Jack didnt elect either of us, pretty sure no one in this thread even knows what the point is in the first place.
But do continue to increase your post counts. I'll be over here doing real work to address real problems from players who just want their sandbox experience to be as seamless, rich, and enjoyable as possible, communicate when that isnt happening in a clear, reasonable way, and listen when the target of those communications respond.
Impossible to please whiners and trolling alts will be largely ignored. Outstanding ones will be made targets of ridicule for my amusement, and the amusement of voters at large.
Have a great day!
Yeah..sure..go ahead and run off to your little club houses and back rooms and twiters and facebooks and blogs and ignore the people who actually "live" here at eve gate/forums trying to better the game and hash things out.
Again..missing hte point and "doing your own thing" works great don't it? Keep that up. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|
|
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2394
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 21:10:00 -
[51] - Quote
None ofthe Above wrote:So the CSM missed the mark on this one. It happens.
Do a Mae Culpa, and get working on it.
Mocking the people who elected you while trying to say you didn't miss the mark... well that's probably not going to go over well.
The only thing we missed the mark on was explaining to the players what we'd been up to, its not like we hadn't already been writing up feedback in the forums and referring the devs to all the relevant threads on the issue. That was my earlier point. Communication with the players is important and there's of course room for improvement, but our priority will always be making sure CCP has everything in detail first whether or not we than re-post all the same complaints in a public forum.
We're also allowed to have a sense of humor, especially when players come at us like we have a magic wand to revert the UI into its old system or charm CCP into obeying our very whim. It's important that players understand that the RIGHTEOUS FURY often exhibited in forum threads just isn't a tool the CSM has at their disposal, especially when leveled at developers who are already addressing the problems as we speak. It's obnoxious to be yelled at to go do something you're already doing, and it would quickly get the CSM ignored as much as it does players who abuse the same tactics.
Does it make for a quiet or boring CSM sometimes? Absolutely. But we're not here to entertain, inspire, march in protests or lead crusades, we're here to calmly, clearly, and effectively communicate player concerns to CCP in a manner that gets results. As you can already see by the most recent Dev Blog, the first batch of results is on the way. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
|
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
611
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 21:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:None ofthe Above wrote:So the CSM missed the mark on this one. It happens.
Do a Mae Culpa, and get working on it.
Mocking the people who elected you while trying to say you didn't miss the mark... well that's probably not going to go over well. The only thing we missed the mark on was explaining to the players what we'd been up to, its not like we hadn't already been writing up feedback in the forums and referring the devs to all the relevant threads on the issue. That was my earlier point. Communication with the players is important and there's of course room for improvement, but our priority will always be making sure CCP has everything in detail first whether or not we than re-post all the same complaints in a public forum. We're also allowed to have a sense of humor, especially when players come at us like we have a magic wand to revert the UI into its old system or charm CCP into obeying our very whim. It's important that players understand that the RIGHTEOUS FURY often exhibited in forum threads just isn't a tool the CSM has at their disposal, especially when leveled at developers who are already addressing the problems as we speak. It's obnoxious to be yelled at to go do something you're already doing, and it would quickly get the CSM ignored as much as it does players who abuse the same tactics. Does it make for a quiet or boring CSM sometimes? Absolutely. But we're not here to entertain, inspire, march in protests or lead crusades, we're here to calmly, clearly, and effectively communicate player concerns to CCP in a manner that gets results. As you can already see by the most recent Dev Blog, the first batch of results is on the way.
Maybe if you spent a little time just "hanging around" here and various areas of the forums you'd find us a little bit more receptive.
Because right now you only show up when the #### hits the fan.
I don't epxect you to snap your fingers and get things done.
I expect you to partiicpate actively and at least look the part of doing something....thats not much to ask for for all things considered. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2071
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 21:49:00 -
[53] - Quote
For some RL reasons I haven't had much chance to spend time with it and form and "official" position. What little I've seen of it I have to admit I found it confusing at best. As to how to untangle it and make it a net improvement from the old system, not sure at this point but I intend to spend some time with it this weekend and see if I could come up with anything as well as look for ideas from the players as to possible fixes.
Remember, the CSM is only advisory, its not like we have access to the source code and could make changes ourselves or we can order CCP to change things.
This looks to be one of those "waffle" features where the first attempt was less than ideal, but we need think about how to make the second "waffle" the one we wanted in the first place because in the current mess there are some good ideas (filters for example).
Issler |
Davon Mandra'thin
Solar Horizon Directive
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:10:00 -
[54] - Quote
This whole matter is hugely exaggerated. I see a problem, but not one worth opening extra threads in the Assembly Hall for.
Calm the F*ck down and carry on. |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
88
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:28:00 -
[55] - Quote
"The Council of Stellar Management (CSM) is a player-elected council who represent the views of the members of the EVE Online community to CCP. "
Now, CSM guys just go to testserver feedback and go to https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=104383&find=unread and read the CSM guys at the first pages and read the other messages.
First day: CSM guy representing the UI : "Look at this heroic stuff. Just LOOK AT IT!!! It's the UI so you kind of have to look at it"
Their tongue so long and deep in CCP .... :P
He look at it, we tried it.
But check the reality and check the testers answers after few days.
:The new inventory system is bugged, I logged in last night and just about shat myself, as ALL of my BPO's, ore and mods were missing from my main station.
At first I thought it was just a filterning glitch, but after a good 30 mins of playing with filters & also checking the assets window, it was clear all my good ships and stuff from this station was gone, where stuff I had elsewhere was not and still showing.
at first I thought I may have been hacked, despite having rock solid AV/malware protection and intelligent enough to avoid the usual hacker pitfalls.
Then I stumbled into the Science and industry section to check on some queued jobs, and oddly, the BPOs were all shown on the blueprint tab there ... I tried to Manufacture one, and it complained that I had no ore (further proof it wasnt just filtering)
oddly, after doing this, that single BPO appeared in my item hanger. I repeated this process and got all my BPOs back,
next I went on to trying to find my missing ores and mods, now thinking this was just a glitch. On the search portion of the Assets window, I punched up Tritanium, low and behold it was there, but still did not show on the ALL items tab .. Bizzare huh ?
So I basically spent hours contracting all the items to another charcacter, and then back again and got most of it back .. really annoying.
Oh, and damn, CCP has no phone support >? and my petitions so far have gone unacknowledged, even though I now technically have all my stuff.
anyone else experience something like this ? "
"ok, I just logged into sisi and am trying it out. For the love of god do not replace our current UI with this!!!!! I cant even open my orca corp hangers in a separate window, and I dont like having to spawn my custom windows with shift clicking. And when I dock, I cant just keep my current windows open, I have to reuse one of them to start going down a list to start spawning more... I hate this. I cant say this enough. this is not a step forward for my inventory management. Release this as a new feature that does not replace my current windows, or don't release it at all. I have been with eve since Beta in 2003, and if you replace my windows with this crap, then I don't see myself sticking around for much longer. I don't mean to put down your great work and ideas with this. But this is an idea that needs lots of refinement and feedback before anyone should come close to the idea of replacing our current windows with it. The current UI is great because it allows everyone to customize it so heavily and simply... This one size fits all window does not come close for me. Thanks for the effort though guys... I do like being able to see estimated values, that's neat."
"I hope the devs are looking at the threads in Test Server Feedback and the almost overwhelmingly negative feedback.
Do not implement this.
If you haven't seen them..
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=104539&find=unread
I'm not going to list all the problems here read the threads above."
ETC-ETC-ETC
How many feedback we wrote ? Tippia create a video from the bugs ? But CSM guys just repeated their bsh**t in Eve Radio, the new UI is fantastic balbabla. But they never tried how many seconds need to open the inventory at POS, what a mess for a corphangar manager. So hard handling when player trying to salvage and looting etc. |
None ofthe Above
186
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:46:00 -
[56] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Pretty sure we're already working on it, pretty sure Jack didnt elect either of us, pretty sure no one in this thread even knows what the point is in the first place.
But do continue to increase your post counts. I'll be over here doing real work to address real problems from players who just want their sandbox experience to be as seamless, rich, and enjoyable as possible, communicate when that isnt happening in a clear, reasonable way, and listen when the target of those communications respond.
Impossible to please whiners and trolling alts will be largely ignored. Outstanding ones will be made targets of ridicule for my amusement, and the amusement of voters at large.
Have a great day!
I'd be tempted to give you a pass on this particular issue, I know you where heavily focused on the War Dec changes (for which there are other love/hate threads), but your attitude frankly sucks.
Stop trying to be Mitanni. Its not helping.
|
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2395
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:49:00 -
[57] - Quote
We have already seen those threads and pointed them out to the developers. Like I said, this thread is predominantly angry individuals ordering us to do what we've already been doing. You can link the threads again one more time if you'd like, or start even more threads linking old threads, but its neither necessary nor helpful.
The dev's are quite aware of these issues and are working to address many of them. Yelling at the CSM (who by the way have nothing to do with bug fixes and customer service - we work with development, not the GM's) won't make this process go any faster. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
|
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
641
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:57:00 -
[58] - Quote
Seleene- Hardly, as I would review the ones that had obvious merits and dismiss the ones that stunk of blatant emo-rage. But mocking those who vote to keep you in office is hardly a way to inspire confidence. You are a representative of the players, but are doing a fantastic job to lose respect, which is what wins votes and thus elections.
Drake- As shocking as that is, at least I listen to people and take advice or suggestions under advisement. I don't usually agree with you, but here I fully agree. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
None ofthe Above
186
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:57:00 -
[59] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:None ofthe Above wrote:So the CSM missed the mark on this one. It happens.
Do a Mae Culpa, and get working on it.
Mocking the people who elected you while trying to say you didn't miss the mark... well that's probably not going to go over well. The only thing we missed the mark on was explaining to the players what we'd been up to, its not like we hadn't already been writing up feedback in the forums and referring the devs to all the relevant threads on the issue. That was my earlier point. Communication with the players is important and there's of course room for improvement, but our priority will always be making sure CCP has everything in detail first whether or not we than re-post all the same complaints in a public forum. We're also allowed to have a sense of humor, especially when players come at us like we have a magic wand to revert the UI into its old system or charm CCP into obeying our very whim. It's important that players understand that the RIGHTEOUS FURY often exhibited in forum threads just isn't a tool the CSM has at their disposal, especially when leveled at developers who are already addressing the problems as we speak. It's obnoxious to be yelled at to go do something you're already doing, and it would quickly get the CSM ignored as much as it does players who abuse the same tactics. Does it make for a quiet or boring CSM sometimes? Absolutely. But we're not here to entertain, inspire, march in protests or lead crusades, we're here to calmly, clearly, and effectively communicate player concerns to CCP in a manner that gets results. As you can already see by the most recent Dev Blog, the first batch of results is on the way.
It happens. There was a lot to keep on top of in Inferno that looked like it might turn out poorly. Wardecs, FW, first steps at ship balancing.
My main point at this juncture is that being mocking and dismissive of folks that have legitimate concerns and criticisms is not constructive. It only serves to alienate you from the playerbase. Their anger is feedback to be passed on and learn from, not something that needs to be repressed.
People (by and large) don't expect you to run CCP, they do expect you to listen to and represent them. They get understandably angry if they feel that is not happening.
Is that being unreasonable and worthy of mockery?
|
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
613
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:59:00 -
[60] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote: Drake- As shocking as that is, at least I listen to people and take advice or suggestions under advisement. I don't usually agree with you, but here I fully agree.
We may not see eye to eye...but we share the same passion for the game.
Its funny..people who hate each other or consider each other enemies will all have one comon factor....this game is the best thing since sliced bread...and we'll be damned if we let **** ruin it. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|
|
Untouchable Heart
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 23:06:00 -
[61] - Quote
Blue Harrier wrote: Last night (UK time), I was playing Skyrim and had a sudden thought, are we being used as labrats to test this new UI because it is designed for use with a consoles joypad?
Think about it a bit, this design of UI would work excellently with a joypad and is in a way something like the tree view, container driven menu system that many console games have. So are we in fact testing the UI interface that will be used in Dust?
Is this the GÇÿunifyingGÇÖ interface on both Eve the game and Dust so both players will see a similar UI and that eventually Eve the game might be able to run on the next generation consoles? - snip -
Blue: An excellent hypothesis. I postulated that they were trying to make life miserable for botters and macroers at the expense of a bad human player experience.
I think we both agree : this new system defies logic and thus points to a hidden agenda.
To CCP: Maybe my comments like "failure to handle object inheritance" are not considered specific enough to warrant consideration. Sorry if I was thinking like a programmer, but object inheritance and drawing windows are Programming 101. Ignoring professional standards and stating things more in generic terms of player feedback, I don't see anyone saying that this is wanted, or a great idea, or an improvement. In fact, players are saying it is bad, and not really usable in its current form, but may well have potential.
Now add in all the very specific complaints and I must say that I can't believe this is about to happen.
The real question is : are you really listening to the players as stated within the "new and improved" player based change concept? Or, what level of player dissatisfaction needs to be expressed before you will listen and react accordingly?
kk - I'll STFU now. |
Untouchable Heart
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 23:11:00 -
[62] - Quote
Just read this:
#957 Posted: 2012.05.25 22:49 |
CCP Punkturis wrote:
I was working on War Dec and Kill Reports this release - hope you like that stuff!
Answer from WolfSchwarzMond BSC LEGION
"This was on the 1st page of the EVE Online: Inferno - Feedback thread. Post number 10. This tells me that CCP knew we'd hate this new Inventory. There a is Dev going "Don't blame me. I was working on something else.!"
So after 25 pages here and 50 pages in the Feedback Thread, 90% of them saying this thing is "CRAP" or "junk" or "Stupid" or that is just "SUX" the question is simple. Why can't CCP learn from it's own mistakes? We've been here before......]
"Red flags raised by very smart people both at CCP and in the community went unheeded because of my stubborn refusal to allow adversity to gain purchase on our plans." -Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson, CEO
And so CCP have repeated the same mistake. Making a change, testing it, getting feeback from players that said "THIS SUCKS" then ramming it down the player's collective throats anyway.
"The greatest lesson for me is the realization that EVE belongs to you, and we at CCP are just the hosts of your experience." -Hilmar Veigar P+¬tursson, CEO
Well Sir, this was a lesson you didn't learn. You are proving it. The new inventory has made Looting from Wrecks, Player Owned Station operations, Jetcan Mining, Corporate Hanger Ops, and dealing with large amounts of items into a tedious, time wasting, torture sessions. The new system lags. It in some cases makes it harder to find things. It makes you repeat the same actions over and over and over where before it was once. Your people were told time and again during Sisi testing that this change was not a good idea, but you did it anyway. Again....
I would humbly suggest that you either Rollback this change or make it optional as you did with the whole Captain's Quarters fiasco. Let us not take this latest lack of good judgement and turn it into International news. Prove to us you can learn from your mistakes. And stop repeating them.
Quotes taken from here http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2672 " |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1627
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 23:33:00 -
[63] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:Seleene- Hardly, as I would review the ones that had obvious merits and dismiss the ones that stunk of blatant emo-rage. But mocking those who vote to keep you in office is hardly a way to inspire confidence. You are a representative of the players, but are doing a fantastic job to lose respect, which is what wins votes and thus elections.
Mate... maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate.... If you can't handle some light-hearted joking and take everything this serious, you probably wouldn't want to actually run for CSM, much less deal with some of the ~good times~ trolling and hilarity that goes on when dealing with CCP directly. I don't 'respect' the fact that so many seem ready to burn the CSM at the stake because we are not somehow magically getting CCP to turn back time / revert the changes NOW NOW NOW or take remote control of the development servers and turn them over to people that can 'do it better'. As has been pointed out by no less than four CSMs in this thread, we are not sitting on our hands and we are doing what we can to help alleviate the problem that we are ALL suffering from atm.
Your post, which I 'mocked', seemed to ignore that we are already doing exactly as you say you would do if you were able, just without the seeming ~outrage~ that so many seem to be baffled the CSM is not righteously displaying. It was also completely dismissive of replies that had already been given in this thread, links to other threads and the content of the same. Insinuating that you would somehow be able to do more, without so much as acknowledging the aforementioned efforts already being made, marked your post in my eyes as a blatant 'come at me bro' troll. I actually read your post and my reply to it reflected my mood - you were ignoring the replies I'd made in this thread so I wasn't really moved to take what you said seriously either. If your post WAS serious, then it certainly didn't come across as such.
Here is what I see happening as of right now:
- CCP isn't going to roll back the changes. They will keep working to evolve the current feature as quickly as possible.
- Not much is going to happen in the next 48 hours because it's the weekend.
- I could be wrong and the dudes responsible may work all weekend to iterate on the United Inventory feature (doubt it).
- The CSM will be in Iceland next week and this subject will obviously be front and center.
- I will be sending out non-NDA updates from the summit as much as I can as we talk to the various teams.
At this point there is quite literally nothing else the CSM can do that we've not already done over the past few weeks, especially since Inferno went live. The onus is on CCP to now act on how the CSM and the community has reacted to their decisions. CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
90
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 23:47:00 -
[64] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Jack Carrigan wrote:Seleene- Hardly, as I would review the ones that had obvious merits and dismiss the ones that stunk of blatant emo-rage. But mocking those who vote to keep you in office is hardly a way to inspire confidence. You are a representative of the players, but are doing a fantastic job to lose respect, which is what wins votes and thus elections. Mate... maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate.... If you can't handle some light-hearted joking and take everything this serious, you probably wouldn't want to actually run for CSM, much less deal with some of the ~good times~ trolling and hilarity that goes on when dealing with CCP directly. I don't 'respect' the fact that so many seem ready to burn the CSM at the stake because we are not somehow magically getting CCP to turn back time / revert the changes NOW NOW NOW or take remote control of the development servers and turn them over to people that can 'do it better'. As has been pointed out by no less than four CSMs in this thread, we are not sitting on our hands and we are doing what we can to help alleviate the problem that we are ALL suffering from atm. Your post, which I 'mocked', seemed to ignore that we are already doing exactly as you say you would do if you were able, just without the seeming ~outrage~ that so many seem to be baffled the CSM is not righteously displaying. It was also completely dismissive of replies that had already been given in this thread, links to other threads and the content of the same. Insinuating that you would somehow be able to do more, without so much as acknowledging the aforementioned efforts already being made, marked your post in my eyes as a blatant 'come at me bro' troll. I actually read your post and my reply to it reflected my mood - you were ignoring the replies I'd made in this thread so I wasn't really moved to take what you said seriously either. If your post WAS serious, then it certainly didn't come across as such. Here is what I see happening as of right now: - CCP isn't going to roll back the changes. They will keep working to evolve the current feature as quickly as possible.
- Not much is going to happen in the next 48 hours because it's the weekend.
- I could be wrong and the dudes responsible may work all weekend to iterate on the United Inventory feature (doubt it).
- The CSM will be in Iceland next week and this subject will obviously be front and center.
- I will be sending out non-NDA updates from the summit as much as I can as we talk to the various teams.
At this point there is quite literally nothing else the CSM can do that we've not already done over the past few weeks, especially since Inferno went live. The onus is on CCP to now act on how the CSM and the community has reacted to their decisions.
Just for you again: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=2672
If they not change this politics they will lose 20k players again. They will rolling back this sh*t or their nightmares will starting again. No it's not true. Exactly their nightmare started, many players left the game already.
You really know what will happen in the last 48 hours, but you fail again, because that is 72 hours,. Do you know monday may 28 is holyday at Island ? We dont care this crap ui, we just not need it. |
None ofthe Above
186
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 00:47:00 -
[65] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Jack Carrigan wrote:Seleene- Hardly, as I would review the ones that had obvious merits and dismiss the ones that stunk of blatant emo-rage. But mocking those who vote to keep you in office is hardly a way to inspire confidence. You are a representative of the players, but are doing a fantastic job to lose respect, which is what wins votes and thus elections. Mate... maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate.... If you can't handle some light-hearted joking and take everything this serious, you probably wouldn't want to actually run for CSM, much less deal with some of the ~good times~ trolling and hilarity that goes on when dealing with CCP directly. I don't 'respect' the fact that so many seem ready to burn the CSM at the stake because we are not somehow magically getting CCP to turn back time / revert the changes NOW NOW NOW or take remote control of the development servers and turn them over to people that can 'do it better'. As has been pointed out by no less than four CSMs in this thread, we are not sitting on our hands and we are doing what we can to help alleviate the problem that we are ALL suffering from atm. Your post, which I 'mocked', seemed to ignore that we are already doing exactly as you say you would do if you were able, just without the seeming ~outrage~ that so many seem to be baffled the CSM is not righteously displaying. It was also completely dismissive of replies that had already been given in this thread, links to other threads and the content of the same. Insinuating that you would somehow be able to do more, without so much as acknowledging the aforementioned efforts already being made, marked your post in my eyes as a blatant 'come at me bro' troll. I actually read your post and my reply to it reflected my mood - you were ignoring the replies I'd made in this thread so I wasn't really moved to take what you said seriously either. If your post WAS serious, then it certainly didn't come across as such. Here is what I see happening as of right now: - CCP isn't going to roll back the changes. They will keep working to evolve the current feature as quickly as possible.
- Not much is going to happen in the next 48 hours because it's the weekend.
- I could be wrong and the dudes responsible may work all weekend to iterate on the United Inventory feature (doubt it).
- The CSM will be in Iceland next week and this subject will obviously be front and center.
- I will be sending out non-NDA updates from the summit as much as I can as we talk to the various teams.
At this point there is quite literally nothing else the CSM can do that we've not already done over the past few weeks, especially since Inferno went live. The onus is on CCP to now act on how the CSM and the community has reacted to their decisions.
Thanks for the good response.
I think it's still fairly valid to wonder why there was little more than "it'll be great" in the townhall. I do seem to remember some acknowledgment of concern there too, to your credit. The forums where exploding with little or no acknowledgement from the CSM. And Two step was right to an extent, the people angry about this where doing a fine job of getting the point across, but still in the middle of these issues is where I think we expect to see the CSM.
I do think there might be something to learn here about at least acknowledging concerns a bit earlier. If you guys where working hard behind the scenes, great. Still a dialog with the players might be good.
For example, this point: Is it seriously impossible to revert the inventory and run the unified version as an optional secondary way to look at this until the performance and other issues are resolved? As a software engineer I think this should be possible, but it depends on good version control and how it was implemented. It may or may not be feasible, but one wonders if the devs are just being stubborn on this point.
We were told something similar about the Orca corp hanger, but that got fixed one way or the other in reasonably short order.
Anyway, thanks for hanging in there and weathering the slings and arrows.
|
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
278
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 01:05:00 -
[66] - Quote
Two step wrote:Uh, wtf do you want us to say here? The new inventory system has some really sucky parts and some pretty nice parts. From what I have seen on the forums, you guys are doing a pretty good job of bitching to CCP all on your own.
Wow, look at all that support from our elected leaders. Bought out for the price of a ticket to Iceland and you all turn in to lap-dogs.
Real Edit: I posted that prior to reading Selene's postings as 2-Step's response blows. Thanks to Selene for the rational follow up.
Nothing clever at this time. |
Kile Kitmoore
56
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 03:40:00 -
[67] - Quote
Careful with that light-hearted humor Seleene , didn't work out so well for your predecessor.
Is there somewhere that shows what exactly CSM's position is on the UI? What changes are you advocating? I mean there are a lot ideas out there so which do you think should be on CCP's hit-list? Wouldn't mind actually seeing each members position.
Thanks
|
Seismic Stan
102
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 04:40:00 -
[68] - Quote
As the player who asked the Inventory question which the CSM answered unsatisfactorily, I'm disappointed that people are using it to attack the CSM process. At the time of the Town Hall broadcast, I was irritated by the CSM response to my question, as I felt it showed a general lack of awareness of the Inventory issue. To a degree I still believe this, however I appreciate with the impending summit there is undoubtedly a host of other issues which also demand their time and attention.
I think the more militant and vocal players should remember that no CSM member is being paid for their time - any and all effort they put into their role is entirely voluntary. The commitment they have made is on our behalf and there's absolutely no point in finger-pointing and name calling.
It's at times like these, with issues impacting so many subscribers, that players should be supporting and empowering the CSM.
Freebooted - Tech4 News - Incarna: The Text Adventure - Guild Launch EVE Correspondent |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
644
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 04:46:00 -
[69] - Quote
All I see in the reaction from the CSM here is a knee-jerk reaction to them as a whole being put up on blast for their lack of interaction. Quite sad really. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
616
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 05:58:00 -
[70] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:All I see in the reaction from the CSM here is a knee-jerk reaction to them as a whole being put up on blast for their lack of interaction. Quite sad really.
Ditto...whole lot of backpedaling and excuses and not so much participation.
Gonna take a lot more than some scattered words of confidence to put any faith back into it.
Again...I know you guys can't do squat as far as taking action...but you sure as hell could be doing a lot more than sitting there in silence. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|
|
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
93
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 06:36:00 -
[71] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:I just love it when CSM show up and do a song and dance only to completely miss the point.
->Create thread about lack of CSM participation and forum posts ->gets CSM to post in thread ->Talk about issue with CSM members, learn how they are dealing with issue -> Have CSM members completely miss point of thread
It really is a art, Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Ships to goo calc - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107898 |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
644
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 06:50:00 -
[72] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:I just love it when CSM show up and do a song and dance only to completely miss the point. ->Create thread about lack of CSM participation and forum posts ->gets CSM to post in thread ->Talk about issue with CSM members, learn how they are dealing with issue -> Have CSM members completely miss point of thread It really is a art,
Indeed it is.
Point, still missed. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
97
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 08:39:00 -
[73] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:All I see in the reaction from the CSM here is a knee-jerk reaction to them as a whole being put up on blast for their lack of interaction. Quite sad really.
Do you know why ? They didn't communicate with players, they didn't communicate with CCP and they didn't read the UI topic for information. Check Seleene answer to Jack Carrigan from weekend.
Now read CCP Soundwave answer from fixing:
"We should have another round of fixes/changes coming this Tuesday (Monday is a public holiday in Iceland)"
The testers maded enough feedback for fix, the testers pointed out the problems to CCP and for CSM too, but CSM did nothing. |
Arduemont
Malevolent Intentions Ineluctable.
110
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 11:54:00 -
[74] - Quote
I havn't read this whole thread because lets face it, why bother? Its just a bunch of players throwing hissy fits because they can't have their way right now.
Grow up. |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
104
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:05:00 -
[75] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:I havn't read this whole thread because lets face it, why bother? Its just a bunch of players throwing hissy fits because they can't have their way right now.
Grow up.
Noob troll. |
SeenButNotHeard
Doing The Business
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 12:24:00 -
[76] - Quote
I like the fact that the CSM are putting some effort into this thread.
That said I think the whole point of it is that the CSM is not communicating their efforts effectively enough.
There doesn't seem to be a "presence" in the player threads that are either a) trying to make sensible constructive criticism or b) b!tchslapping CCP for such a massive fail.
The UI sucks and we all know it - I just think that the CSM needs to be louder, not quieter and working in the background.
(Also - CSM tags should be clickable so we can see posts by them - they should show on the forum)
TL;DR - More communicative CSM please - we were spoiled before and you seem a bit....toothless. |
Caprican Erock
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
21
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 13:27:00 -
[77] - Quote
I thank the CSM for looking into this and putting it at the top of the list. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3961
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 19:45:00 -
[78] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:You act like that is a new thing. The whole thing is a crock as only the major power blocs are ever represented
Which major powerblocks do Issler and Trebor represent?
Oh wait, you're making **** up to excuse your lack of involvement
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
102
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 12:03:00 -
[79] - Quote
CSM please point out to CCP the growing **** storm in regards to the player base. I can't say the new UI is universally despised, there are at least two people that like it. probably ones that don't have towers or corp hangers or manufacture anything.
This is growing into a major firestorm, and seriously it is not going away. Please before we drop another 5k subs, please point out to CCP the sense of rage regarding this diseased barely funtional, laggy UI 'improvement'.
I'm not sure there are words strong enough to describe how important that is. It is enraging people, it just feels like Incarna again. |
cuculet
Bearing Srl.
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 13:20:00 -
[80] - Quote
CSM before the s**t storm: "GO CCP! GO CCP!"
after: "hmm, we are aware there may be some problems, but CCP it's working on it; not in weekend ofc, but they are really, really stressed about it; it will be fixed in severall weks, or several months cose you know, they are really working hard on it..."
CSM, what a joke...
you even succed in making me regret the mitani, and let me tell you ladds that was a thing i never ever imagined... |
|
Davon Mandra'thin
Solar Horizon Directive
46
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 15:44:00 -
[81] - Quote
Maraner wrote:I can't say the new UI is universally despised, there are at least two people that like it. probably ones that don't have towers or corp hangers or manufacture anything.
I do all of those things. And I still don't find the new UI a problem. Also, most of my corp think the following of the UI - "Meh". Get the occasional comment about the estimated prices and filters being cool. One or two odd comments about "its going to take some time to get used to". Even the corp my alt is in doesn't have any problems with it. I don't understand how all the forum trolls have such a problem with it.
Yes, there are problems. No, they are not a big deal.
Maraner wrote:Please before we drop another 5k subs.
Where do you get your stats from? Having talked to so few people in game who have a problem with the UI, and having not seen anyone rage "-1 SUB CCP!!!" on the forums I cant see that anyone has left over this.
This is just such a massive over-reaction over practically nothing as far as I can tell. |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1634
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:03:00 -
[82] - Quote
Happy to be wrong about CCP not working on a weekend. Today, on an Icelandic holiday Sunday no less, CCP Soundwave has released another dev blog:
This Week in the Unified Inventory
The money lines of this blog are:
"As a remedy, weGÇÖre going to try and provide you with weekly changes to it, until we get it into a state where youGÇÖre happy with it."
"Again, you guys have my deepest apologies for this situation. WeGÇÖll do whatever we can to rectify it. We're going to continue to take your valuable feedback and add it to the list of changes we want to make."
I don't think I've ever read anything by CCP where they publicly commit to weekly changes on a feature.
One thing I know is that CCP's management is not taking this lightly at all. On Friday night I spoke with CCP Unifex (Jon Lander), EVE's Senior Producer about this issue specifically. While I cannot detail the whole conversation, I can say that this is something which is getting a lot of attention internally at CCP and will be front and center in our discussions at the Summit this week. CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Darius III
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
1373
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:21:00 -
[83] - Quote
I have been quite vocal about it and have said many negative things about CCP to the point of damaging my relationship with them. The fact that they quite obviously dont care that they have made the game much more tedious for most of us is obvious. It doesnt seem to phase them that the system sucks and they are much more worried about their public image than the players well being.
I have asked for an optional system where we can CHOOSE if we want the new or old system and I doubt they will listen. They didnt seem to care before releasing the crap system that virtually everyone said it was crap, why should they listen now? They think we will "get used to it" and are oblivious to how much more difficult it is on the people who actually PLAY the game. Hmmm |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
155
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:50:00 -
[84] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Happy to be wrong about CCP not working on a weekend. Today, on an Icelandic holiday Sunday no less, CCP Soundwave has released another dev blog: This Week in the Unified InventoryThe money lines of this blog are: "As a remedy, weGÇÖre going to try and provide you with weekly changes to it, until we get it into a state where youGÇÖre happy with it."
"Again, you guys have my deepest apologies for this situation. WeGÇÖll do whatever we can to rectify it. We're going to continue to take your valuable feedback and add it to the list of changes we want to make."I don't think I've ever read anything by CCP where they publicly commit to weekly changes on a feature. One thing I know is that CCP's management is not taking this lightly at all. On Friday night I spoke with CCP Unifex (Jon Lander), EVE's Senior Producer about this issue specifically. While I cannot detail the whole conversation, I can say that this is something which is getting a lot of attention internally at CCP and will be front and center in our discussions at the Summit this week.
From other topic:
"Again, you guys have my deepest apologies for this situation."
From devblog. This is lol and ridiculous.
We dont want apologies. We reported all problems from new UI. Anyone listen from CCP our feedbacks ??? We created video etc. But we got the answer from developer.
Can read everyone:
""CCP Arrow wrote: In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem"
Who enabled this crap "Unfinished-Inventory" to put TQ ? Who is the responsibility for this ? We hate this inventory. Unusable,it is a torture for players, a nightmare.
We dont want apologies, we dont want this UI. And we never asked this crap UI.
Do you know what we want ? We want Eve client without Unfinished Inventory. Put back to Sisi, fix it there. We are subscribers not alpha/beta testers. Beta testing is a job, and they get payments for test, but we paying for game and we want play, not testing crap unfinised works.Chop down this horrible Treepanel, we dont want Win 3.1 File Explorer in EVE. We want a handly tools, what the old inventory was. |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1635
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 16:56:00 -
[85] - Quote
Ribikoka, I think everyone knows that you are mad but you are not going to get what you want. They are not going to revert it no matter how much you ***** about it. They will evolve what they have on a weekly basis. That is the commitment they have made. They made a big mistake. Now they have to fix it and they have said they are going to. You can WHY WHY WHY all you want, but this is still night and day different than what happened with Incarna where they actually tried to defend that bullshit for months on end. CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
159
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:33:00 -
[86] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Ribikoka, I think everyone knows that you are mad but you are not going to get what you want. They are not going to revert it no matter how much you ***** about it. They will evolve what they have on a weekly basis. That is the commitment they have made. They made a big mistake. Now they have to fix it and they have said they are going to. You can WHY WHY WHY all you want, but this is still night and day different than what happened with Incarna where they actually tried to defend that bullshit for months on end.
Saying a CSM member who was voted to CSM with mandatory alliance letter. A pet of CCP, who did nothing to arrest this CCP mistake just put his hand for free tickets for enjoying journey to Iceland.
Do you think an old MC video enough for CSM membership ? No, brown-noiser. Do you think wont be happen nothing, but the MMO portals started to write from this fiasco again. Players started to left the game, because you CSM guys dont save player's interests, and did nothing when free testers from Sisi reported the Unfinished Inventory feedbacks for everyone.
"different than what happened with Incarna"
Different than what happened with Incarna ? This is same, the dont listen their playerbas and testers when they said "we tried on Sisi, but this is bad". Just you say on UI topic hurray this is our flawless,perfect UI.
But this is worsen than Incarna, the players dont have choice, they must to use this crap inventory, they cant turning off the "Door" to Windows. |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
238
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:54:00 -
[87] - Quote
Minimizing windows, and then shift-clicking on the ones I want does the trick. Close enough, but was really painful until somebody told me about the shift-click option. |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1637
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 17:54:00 -
[88] - Quote
Ribikoka wrote:Saying a CSM member who was voted to CSM with mandatory alliance letter.
PL's candidate was Elise Randolph, who also got booshed by RDN and NCDOT. No alliance mails got me onto the CSM.
CSM 7 Chairman My Blog - Where I say stuff Follow Seleene on Twitter! |
cuculet
Bearing Srl.
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 18:28:00 -
[89] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Happy to be wrong about CCP not working on a weekend. Today, on an Icelandic holiday Sunday no less, CCP Soundwave has released another dev blog: This Week in the Unified InventoryThe money lines of this blog are: "As a remedy, weGÇÖre going to try and provide you with weekly changes to it, until we get it into a state where youGÇÖre happy with it."
"Again, you guys have my deepest apologies for this situation. WeGÇÖll do whatever we can to rectify it. We're going to continue to take your valuable feedback and add it to the list of changes we want to make."I don't think I've ever read anything by CCP where they publicly commit to weekly changes on a feature. One thing I know is that CCP's management is not taking this lightly at all. On Friday night I spoke with CCP Unifex (Jon Lander), EVE's Senior Producer about this issue specifically. While I cannot detail the whole conversation, I can say that this is something which is getting a lot of attention internally at CCP and will be front and center in our discussions at the Summit this week.
yea, i'm too working in a weekend, cose i'm writing on a forum, it's a hard work indeed...
and one more thing:
Quote:" As a remedy, weGÇÖre going to try and provide you with weekly changes to it, until we get it into a state where youGÇÖre happy with it." we all know that when CCP make a promise, they will keep it no matter what... like they did one hundred times before... oh wait! like they did when the CEO of CCP sayd they won't ever bring content that we, players don't want; yea, i'm sure they won't just patch 2-3 things till the player rage go do a bit and then forget about this problem for years, no, CCP won't do that ever... |
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order
651
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 19:03:00 -
[90] - Quote
Well, we can agree on a couple things here:
- The unified inventory blows donkeys. - People are going to continue raging about it until it is fixed.
Well, CCP said they're going to make weekly changes, and hey, look, the entire point of this thread has been achieved, as the CSM is actually updating us on **** that they are allowed to tell us (non-NDA information), and what's being done to fix our concerns.
I think we can chalk this one up as a win, and now see if the inventory gets un****ed. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives." |
|
Liberty Belle
MBT Interstellar
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 19:09:00 -
[91] - Quote
I'm only frustrated with the inventory lag.
Haven't found any other reason to rage. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 19:17:00 -
[92] - Quote
Jack Carrigan wrote:Well, we can agree on a couple things here:
- The unified inventory blows donkeys. - People are going to continue raging about it until it is fixed.
Well, CCP said they're going to make weekly changes, and hey, look, the entire point of this thread has been achieved, as the CSM is actually updating us on **** that they are allowed to tell us (non-NDA information), and what's being done to fix our concerns.
I think we can chalk this one up as a win, and now see if the inventory gets un****ed.
Hmmm,,, Public raging thread, got what it wanted. interesting.
Though, as a forum warrior, i do want to say that a thread like this four weeks ago, would have been much more useful. and part of the point of the continuation of this thread.
Public CSM support or condemnation of changes that are going to go live before they go live * are important.
* and after they are actually available to be tested rather then the UI thread which CSM posted before it was actually available to be tested.
I understand that you may have blogs, twitters and whatnot, but the lack of CSM posts on the official EVE forums is just.. what? you posted feeling about this everywhere but here? really?
Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Ships to goo calc - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107898 |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
628
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 19:44:00 -
[93] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:Jack Carrigan wrote:Well, we can agree on a couple things here:
- The unified inventory blows donkeys. - People are going to continue raging about it until it is fixed.
Well, CCP said they're going to make weekly changes, and hey, look, the entire point of this thread has been achieved, as the CSM is actually updating us on **** that they are allowed to tell us (non-NDA information), and what's being done to fix our concerns.
I think we can chalk this one up as a win, and now see if the inventory gets un****ed. Hmmm,,, Public raging thread, got what it wanted. interesting. Though, as a forum warrior, i do want to say that a thread like this four weeks ago, would have been much more useful. and part of the point of the continuation of this thread. Public CSM support or condemnation of changes that are going to go live before they go live * are important. * and after they are actually available to be tested rather then the UI thread which CSM posted before it was actually available to be tested. I understand that you may have blogs, twitters and whatnot, but the lack of CSM posts on the official EVE forums is just.. what? you posted feeling about this everywhere but here? really?
This.... and getting tired of being forced to use their **** when I'm content to have the eve online forums themselves. ================ STOP THE EVEMAIL-áSPAM! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=78152
|
Arduemont
Malevolent Intentions Ineluctable.
141
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 20:08:00 -
[94] - Quote
Ribikoka wrote:*Repeats themselves over and over*
Are you Tiger's alt? You have a very similar debating style. You just repeat yourself over and over without listening to anything anyone is saying. You look like some nut, randomly ranting.
|
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
342
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 21:25:00 -
[95] - Quote
Seleene wrote:I fully appreciate that and, in hindsight, you're not wrong. I can only really explain my own feelings on this which is that because we're talking to CCP pretty much every day, we see that they aren't ignoring what's going on. The people directly responsible for this mess are, understandably, pretty stressed out. They should have paid more attention to the SiSi feedback before release but, at this point, they can't wave a magic wand and change things no matter how ~easy~ some self-appointed expert thinks it is. .
they should try the wizard in Diablo 3 hes got a pretty nifty wand...
PLEX FOR PIZZA!
TECH iii MINNING SHIPS! |
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 10:20:00 -
[96] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Seleene wrote:I fully appreciate that and, in hindsight, you're not wrong. I can only really explain my own feelings on this which is that because we're talking to CCP pretty much every day, we see that they aren't ignoring what's going on. The people directly responsible for this mess are, understandably, pretty stressed out. They should have paid more attention to the SiSi feedback before release but, at this point, they can't wave a magic wand and change things no matter how ~easy~ some self-appointed expert thinks it is. . they should try the wizard in Diablo 3 hes got a pretty nifty wand...
Or just remove those CSM members who had responsibility for this. |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |