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Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
508
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Posted - 2012.05.23 18:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Since the original Digital Paradise has long since faded, never making it into the 21st Century, and was replaced by corporate portals, Google and Facebook, it's quaint to see a plea for open source. The great pioneers of coding never achieved the sophistication of their competitors. Even if it's free you get what you pay for.
They use Windows friendly code 'cause that's what we pay them to do. Fortunately, our devs aren't crusaders for open source. This ensures we get quality, not philosophy. Anyone with any sense has already left town. |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
90
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Posted - 2012.05.23 18:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:More people use Windows. Therefore there are more potential customers. That's why game developers opted for Windows.
Did you know Halo was originally supposed to be on the Mac? Bungie decided to switch to the Xbox because they realized that back then the only people who actually bought macs were designers and architects.
yes yes, only huge ass games, or games from kick ass games companys support mac's, is it really worth discussing further? I think we have covered it in the first 4 posts. Whats important here is someone called themselves out as a 3dfx fanboy, and that's a lot of fun for everyone, I think. Also, tribes was mentioned, so.. shazbot? |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
90
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Posted - 2012.05.23 18:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:omg! a 3dfx fanboy! in the wild! I thought all the remaining viable populations where kept in zoos.
I just died and went to heaven, this thread delivers What good stuff Nvidia has innovated?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia
have fun |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
61
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Posted - 2012.05.23 19:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia
have fun
You want to play "PhysX" card, eh?
- Originally developed by Ageia - It's proprietary softaware so limited to Nvidia cards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary_software
Fail. Try again. |
Beef Knuckleback
Pawnstars INC The Fendahlian Collective
3
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Posted - 2012.05.23 19:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Did you know Halo was originally supposed to be on the Mac? Bungie decided to switch to the Xbox because they realized that back then the only people who actually bought macs were designers and architects.
You're half right.
Bungie was a Mac developer back in the day, and arguably the best Mac-centric games company out there (Blizzard and iD titles being ports).
Halo was developed as a Mac title and was going to be the reason for gamers to buy a Mac until Microsoft realized they needed a kick-ass launch title for the X-Box. MS bought Bungie,* Halo was First To X-Box, and all of the sequels (that I'm aware of) have been specific to Microsoft platforms.
Bungie's "decision" to target the X-Box was accepting the Microsoft buyout. And yes, this was during the period in which the primary users of Macs were designers - that's since changed to Hipsters with designers as an increasingly niche demographic for reasons unrelated to gaming.
* Wikipedia says they split from MS in 2007 and now have a ten year deal with Activizzard, so there's that. |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
90
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Posted - 2012.05.23 19:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia
have fun You want to play "PhysX" card, eh? - Originally developed by Ageia - It's proprietary software so limited to Nvidia cards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary_softwareFail. Try again.
what, no, what? how about 256? H T&L anyone? Also, lol
there is a reason 3dfx died, and was scooped up for nothing but the Word "SLI" years later voodoo 5, lolz |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
850
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Posted - 2012.05.23 19:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sycho Pathic wrote:Doc Severide wrote:3DFX and Glide.....The Good ol days... I stumbled across several Voodoo cards while packing for the move to the new house. (Along with some Tseng Labs ET4000 cards and a Number Nine card I used under Windows 3.0 that, adjusted for today's dollar, cost more than most used cars) Was going to keep them for nostalgia's sake but my wife got to the box before I could get it on the truck. >.<
Glad I am still holding on my Tseng Labs ET3000 8 bits. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
61
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Posted - 2012.05.23 19:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:what, no, what? how about 256? H T&L anyone? Also, lol
there is a reason 3dfx died, and was scooped up for nothing but the Word "SLI" years later voodoo 5, lolz
Nvidia wasn't hardware 3D acceleration pioneer.
Oh, now I get it. - Drivers destroying cards because fan fails to start - Godly Geforce FX |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
93
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Posted - 2012.05.23 19:41:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:what, no, what? how about 256? H T&L anyone? Also, lol
there is a reason 3dfx died, and was scooped up for nothing but the Word "SLI" years later voodoo 5, lolz Nvidia wasn't hardware 3D acceleration pioneer. Oh, now I get it. - Drivers destroying cards because fan fails to start - Godly Geforce FX
This is more fun then I could have ever imagined, good show.
Was that even in english? Nvidia wasn't hardware 3D acceleration pioneer huh? That's not a sentence dude, you are missing one or two of those, you know, those things.. oh ya, words
If you your your computer box needs more words, homestar runner could help you out, I believe |
Styx Cyc
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2012.05.23 19:50:00 -
[40] - Quote
Programing for PC's with Windows is already a difficult task as it is, with the amount of different hardware out there with so many different driver versions for all of it.
The problem is made worse when even the OS is extremely customizable like that of Linux, where most people have switched and rewritten a lot of things to their liking.
Then ontop of that, add a userbase so small that its really not worth it to also develop and mantain compatible code for it. Eve had a Linux client for a while and they dropped it because there wasn't enough people using that client to make it worth while economically.
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Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
356
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Posted - 2012.05.23 19:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
Styx Cyc wrote:Programing for PC's with Windows is already a difficult task as it is, with the amount of different hardware out there with so many different driver versions for all of it.
The problem is made worse when even the OS is extremely customizable like that of Linux, where most people have switched and rewritten a lot of things to their liking.
Then ontop of that, add a userbase so small that its really not worth it to also develop and mantain compatible code for it. Eve had a Linux client for a while and they dropped it because there wasn't enough people using that client to make it worth while economically.
No it's not, however programming for different mobiles IS. Mostly due to vendor feckups such as HTC lol
Programming for Windows game platforms is easy, just use Steam Hardware Survey for REAL LIFE metrics on platforms and pick some to target. Mobiles however is not so easy, thanks to HTC and co fecking up with vendor specific issues.
Even worse, is Linux, so let's just skip that all together :) Mac, Windows, PS and XBOX are too easy to code for, just use Unreal Engine :) Mobiles its a pain in the arse, Linux, don't even go there. Anyway too little money on Linux anyway and the only reason we take the pain with mobiles is the huge money pot via viral word of mouth on games and socal heresay and also micro payments. Large volume of impulse purcahses and low cost. Even better is facebook games, spam their wall's for free advertising :) |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
61
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Posted - 2012.05.23 20:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Mac, Windows, PS and XBOX are too easy to code for
PS is actually very difficult platform for programmers. |
Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
127
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Posted - 2012.05.23 20:04:00 -
[43] - Quote
Neptune Thunderclap wrote:Is it that DirectX is easier or better than OpenGL, even if OpenGL is cross-platform? Why do we not see real powerful games for Linux like there are for Windows? The reason game devs usually don't write for Linux is the same reason novels aren't written in Latin. Support Aegis Destroyers: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97610 |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
357
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Posted - 2012.05.23 20:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Miilla wrote:Mac, Windows, PS and XBOX are too easy to code for PS is actually very difficult platform for programmers.
Not if you use Unreal Engine :) The only real difficulty is dealing with Sony,'s PSN, which isn't as bad as dealing with XBOX Live. |
Twulf
The Konvergent League Sanctuary Pact
69
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Posted - 2012.05.23 20:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Is say cause there are more of them... Kinda the reason there arent viri for macs oh whoops
Mac's have virus and spyware and everything else that haunts Windows systems but the fact that there are not that many compared to Windows is why you do not hear about them.
Like I always tell people. Why create a Virus for a Million users when you can create one for a billion users?
Also Windows is the most used OS on the planet and most used for home computers which is what most games are built for home users to play on home computers. (granted my home PC is a beast and way better then my computer at work and I am in the IT field).
MAC is a solid OS but the price of Apples is what turns me away, why would I pay an extra $1000 dollars for an Apple logo? The hardware inside is the same as a PC, so why spend the extra money? (Unless you are make graphics or sound, PC does everything better)
Linux is a great OS but not many people are going to be able to use it, many people can't use windows and you want them to have to use command lines? yea right.
PS3, Xbox360 both use Linux OS. I think it is funny as hell that Xbox360 does not use a windows OS and its made by Microsoft who's flag ship product is Windows. |
Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
89
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Posted - 2012.05.23 20:25:00 -
[46] - Quote
1. market share (this has large ramifications)
2. hardware support (this is tied to 1)
3. documentation and support also tied to 1.
Linux has come a long ways and it can compete with windows in gaming .
but the market share is just not there nor is the hardware support .
making things work on windows is already hard enough for developers adding in the weird flukes that come with linux can be the straw that breaks the camels back.
With that being said if a developer builds their game in a bubble for linux there usually is no problem with it. but most developers do not use this method for some reason .
the hardware support, documentation, and vendor support offered to a windows developer, is what makes a windows pc the number 1 gaming platform.
none of these issues are simple tasks to conquer, a whole industry is built around this system .
but smart phones and tablets may be the inroads needed to flip this situation . but things need to be a lot less proprietary and whole lot more open before it unseats the current regime . |
Dheeradj Nurgle
Misfit Syndicate Warden.
11
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Posted - 2012.05.23 20:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
As much as I love GNU/Linux, would you rather develop for a solid metal block(MS Windows), or lego (GNU/Linux) |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
129
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Posted - 2012.05.23 20:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
Windows is much more managable for the average user.
Linux, as good as it is, will never go mainstream as long as you pretty much need to know a few basic command line operations to get it to work and keep it working. Despite the most recent developments of distros this is still the case - troubleshooting on a Linux PC is simply not possible for 90% of all average users and difficult at least for the rest.
It's the simple reality of it all.
That, and the Windows market share is self perpetuating since most people use windows, so the most programs are made for windows, so most people use windows... |
Redstar1
Blueprint Haus Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2012.05.23 21:28:00 -
[49] - Quote
I use both, but I don't tend to use Linux with a GUI because I can use Windows instead. Linux is handy, but lets face it, it's never going to be a mainstream desktop OS, and I'm fine with that. I do a lot of work in the 'cloud' and MS has it sewn up (along with Citrix). I know of entire organisations that are moving to cloud based systems and replacing all their agents laptops with iPads... do MS care? Not a jot because the iPads are connecting to Windows 7 VDIs.. result is MS make even more money than if those laptops were replaced like for like with Windows/Office installed.
They've won, someone had to. Let's keep encouraging them to make the progress they've shown with 2008 R2, W7 and now Server 8.
As for Linux, as a poster said earlier it can be a huge pain in the arse. I've spent 2 days trying to get a server up and running that does little more than IDS/IPS and it was a complete nightmare on a 64bit CentOS distro. The same software on a Windows box was up and running in under 20 minutes.
*shrug*
It's expected though. Windows is a general purpose OS, Linux works best when it isn't. |
Josef Djugashvilis
214
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Posted - 2012.05.23 21:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
Savage Angel wrote:Microsoft has a lot of power and uses it almost exclusively to force the world onto the Windows desktop. No tinfoil hat needed as it has been proven in several anti-trust cases. They gimped OpenGL once DirectX was out, and had incentives to developers to use their proprietary stuff rather than any open standards.
MS business as usual.
Capitalism, red in tooth and claw.
It was ever thus. You want fries with that? |
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Endeavour Starfleet
820
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Posted - 2012.05.23 21:34:00 -
[51] - Quote
Neptune Thunderclap wrote:Is it that DirectX is easier or better than OpenGL, even if OpenGL is cross-platform? Why do we not see real powerful games for Linux like there are for Windows?
Open GL is a mess to code from what I understand. When they refused to properly update it for so long to match the ease of use of Direct X. Many developers jumped ship.
Open GL thought they could be lazy and keep to the old ways longer. In the meantime game development costs skyrocketed so savings from switching to DX were significant. |
Sin Pew
SWARTA Mostly Clueless
38
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Posted - 2012.05.23 21:55:00 -
[52] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Sycho Pathic wrote:Doc Severide wrote:3DFX and Glide.....The Good ol days... I stumbled across several Voodoo cards while packing for the move to the new house. (Along with some Tseng Labs ET4000 cards and a Number Nine card I used under Windows 3.0 that, adjusted for today's dollar, cost more than most used cars) Was going to keep them for nostalgia's sake but my wife got to the box before I could get it on the truck. >.< I used to have a Voodoo 3, that was an awesome card to play Tribes with Has memories of skiing and epic airshots... Shazbot! [20:03:08] Sin Pew > I regret the auto zoom when my ship blows, I'd llike to see the fireworks at least if I'm going to blow |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
334
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Posted - 2012.05.23 23:56:00 -
[53] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:omg! a 3dfx fanboy! in the wild! I thought all the remaining viable populations where kept in zoos.
I just died and went to heaven, this thread delivers What good stuff Nvidia has innovated? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidiahave fun
Nvidia got most of it's tech bumps from acquisitions, not research and that link kinda backs that statement up. Don't get me wrong, it's my favorite provider of graphics technology at the moment, but their skills really lie in marketing, not innovation.
If 3dfx had survived graphics processing would probably be a fair bit further than it is now. |
bongsmoke
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2012.05.24 00:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
This sums it up.
I'd like ubuntu to get some love in these terms, but then microsoft would cry.
I love Mac products, minus their computers, iphone and ipad rock. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1524
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Posted - 2012.05.24 01:13:00 -
[55] - Quote
Open GL can be powerful but it was never really intended for games.
As for catering to Linux, I think it's a dark plot to trick the independent-minded into an endless world of codec/driver/source lib HELL and getting nothing done.
And I don't see Bill Gates standing on a bridge ready to kill himself just because some people don't use Windows.
I think the joke is on those who don't. Ever try to get some work done with people like that? Lots of time spent on user groups trying to find a driver or compile something or some make file is not working.
Yes yes, resist Microsoft and Bill Gates and his eugenics-driven new world order agenda. I get it.
But when I need a gun, do I try to make one from scrap metal that will probably fail after a few shots or do I get creative with a hammer and get one made in a factory owned by the enemy but I know it will work?
Using Windows is what I like to call the Maquis approach. They took Federation ships and modified them.
And finally, even a rudimentary knowledge of C#, the XNA game studio setup, and some "model import fu" can have you creating games in short order. In one day I made a demo program for a graphics project (not a game but I had freedom to choose how I did it) with a little space ship flying around and I used a Tie Interceptor model found on the web, and I wrote my own EvE-like quaternion camera class for it, and it launched little missiles (yeah Tie Interceptors didn't have missiles I get it for the last time).
And I am no expert in XNA, but it was all free and it works. |
miss eve2006
Fairtrade Syndicate
4
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Posted - 2012.05.24 08:05:00 -
[56] - Quote
only reason windows go so much ground, is because its presold with all new pc's, and most games / apps doesnt come to linux... I love linux, but just cant use for my gaming pc. |
Cyrina Manto
Masons of New Eden The Laughing Men
10
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Posted - 2012.05.24 08:23:00 -
[57] - Quote
Linux... I love Linux for my servers and general browsing / productivity boxes. OGL support for any recent hardware is abysmal though.
I loose 50% or more of my frame rate going from native Windows OGL binaries to native Linux OGL binaries.
Java OTOH absolutely screams on Linux. My Minecraft servers run faster on exponentially slower hardware when using Linux |
Kiandoshia
Gnampf Inc.
78
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Posted - 2012.05.24 08:24:00 -
[58] - Quote
Everyone has Windows. |
ColumnaLcis
Noir. Academy Noir. Mercenary Group
6
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Posted - 2012.05.24 09:03:00 -
[59] - Quote
Once many nerfs ago CCP did have a Linux client. Sadly it ended as the numbers of nix users didn't justify the cost of development. Noir. Academy is Open -á-á-áPVP with purpose. -á-á-áOrganisation, Discipline, Practice. http://noirmercs.com |
Jessica Sweetwater
Novindus Equilibrium Frentix Alliance
38
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Posted - 2012.05.24 09:05:00 -
[60] - Quote
Neptune Thunderclap wrote:Is it that DirectX is easier or better than OpenGL, even if OpenGL is cross-platform? Why do we not see real powerful games for Linux like there are for Windows?
If u even need to ask this. U shouldnt be asking it
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