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Neptune Thunderclap
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Is it that DirectX is easier or better than OpenGL, even if OpenGL is cross-platform? Why do we not see real powerful games for Linux like there are for Windows? |
Damien Valdes
Romex Inc. Dustm3n
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
OS Platform Statistics
Windows 7 and Windows XP are the most popular operating systems. The Windows family counts for over 80%:
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
156
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Neptune Thunderclap wrote:Is it that DirectX is easier or better than OpenGL, even if OpenGL is cross-platform? Why do we not see real powerful games for Linux like there are for Windows?
Apart from CCP developers that apparently hate windows thus have culled them from the client
Tal
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Alua Oresson
Demon-War-Lords Fatal Ascension
119
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Does this answer your question? I too love the Linux operating system, but you can't cater to an almost nonexistent demographic. Besides, CCP does try to make sure that it still works under WINE, which is more than most do. http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/ |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3911
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
I havent seen open GL as a graphic option in alot of my games last game I recall seeing open Gl support was Homeworld 2.
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Mina Hiragi
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Neptune Thunderclap wrote:Is it that DirectX is easier or better than OpenGL, even if OpenGL is cross-platform? Why do we not see real powerful games for Linux like there are for Windows?
Because Linux, as a desktop operating system, is even less popular than a new inventory management window. |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Is say cause there are more of them... http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2317/JKES0811.17.1 Bees That Drink Human Tears -- ITS SCIENCE!!! |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
399
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Windows has been the only mainstream OS for a long time. It's a bit less so now, but still far more common than anything else. So, OpenGL's versatility doesn't really mean that much.
For whatever reason the game development community has chosen DirectX. Presumably there's something about the DirectX technology which makes it better/faster/whatever than OpenGL. |
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Microsoft has a lot of power and uses it almost exclusively to force the world onto the Windows desktop. No tinfoil hat needed as it has been proven in several anti-trust cases. They gimped OpenGL once DirectX was out, and had incentives to developers to use their proprietary stuff rather than any open standards.
MS business as usual. |
Damien Valdes
Romex Inc. Dustm3n
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Is say cause there are more of them...
Kinda the reason there arent viri for macs
oh whoops
And that would have any bearing on this conversation how?
They program to windows for the same reason someone manufactures something in demand in EVE.
To make money.
80% = much bigger market than 4.9%. More money. |
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CARB0N FIBER
Derailleurs
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Like most people that count I started with DOS(never really figured it out). Moved on to windows. About 3 years ago I switched to Mac. I will never go back! Everyone is intitled to their opinion. Mine is, there is Mac than there is everything else. I love Eve, CCP not so much. I do thank CCP for making Eve playable on Mac. If that ever changes I will give Eve up, despite my addiction. Jjust like I gave up the devils grass 10 years ago and cigarettes 2 months ago. I can't beat addiction, I can! |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
662
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Same reasson no one writes viruses for Linux, because less than 1% of the market use it. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
83
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 17:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
3DFX and Glide.....The Good ol days... |
Sycho Pathic
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Doc Severide wrote:3DFX and Glide.....The Good ol days...
I stumbled across several Voodoo cards while packing for the move to the new house. (Along with some Tseng Labs ET4000 cards and a Number Nine card I used under Windows 3.0 that, adjusted for today's dollar, cost more than most used cars)
Was going to keep them for nostalgia's sake but my wife got to the box before I could get it on the truck. >.< |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:Same reasson no one writes viruses for Linux, because less than 1% of the market use it.
No. Reason is that to get access to critical system files in any Unix based system requires administrator rights. When you're logged in as normal user you have full access only to your own home folder. Of course there are viruses that can exploit any hole in system to get around this but those are very rare. Very bad security issues gets fixed in hours rather than weeks. It's not same for Windows. Of course UAC helps a bit but virus can still do damaga to system even without rights.
And that's only desktop market. Look at servers and supercomputers and Windows is in minority. |
Andy DelGardo
Hedion University Amarr Empire
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Neptune Thunderclap wrote:Is it that DirectX is easier or better than OpenGL, even if OpenGL is cross-platform? Why do we not see real powerful games for Linux like there are for Windows?
Yes and Yes for both questions. DirectX is easier and faster to develop for, also most third party tools and applications only support DirectX and not openGL. The new directX10/11 api also adds some really nice features and is easer to maintain, compared to openGL. The next problem is that it roughly takes a year for Ati/nvidia to support the latest openGL release, while they always directly support any new directx release, from day 0.
Except for linux, there is also no real advantage on using openGL over DirectX anymore, in the past openGL 3.2 held some advantages over directX9, but compared to DX11, openGL has none anymore.
The most critical reason however is this: Today most games are designed to also run on consoles, so the PC version is often just a tweaked a upgraded console version and since the XBOX360 nearly uses a compatible directX9/10 api, its more economical to use DirectX as basis. The PS3 uses a very different openGL 1.0 version, which is quite different from the current openGL 4.2 version.
bye Andy |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
355
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cost's, supply of CHEAP workers with Windows skills.
In fact we dumped QNX industry systems for Windows for this very reason, which was ludicrious for a system that has to run 24/7 without failure, personally I think it's a bad decision.
COBOL works, but can you get a cheap COBOL (or RPG) developer? Hell no. Those systems just fracking WORK, and have done for the past 30 years or more. Has windows? Hell no. PS. I worked at MSFT for a decade lol and also in other industries.
Has MS got the best developer tools? Yes and No. Yes in some ways, no in others. I have been there since Win16 up to Win32 and from .Net pre beta internally, would I say they have great tools? yes and no, yes for tools, no for bloat and cutting out specific industries (mobile field capture in WP7 for one - Android won here pure and simply a clear winner).
Games, well lets not forget every new machine has Windows supplied by OEM licenses, that right there is reason enough for game houses to target Windows and XBOX via Unreal engine or other cross platform DirectX runtimes.
Open GL? Well... nope, unfortuneately they are too political in their slow decision making which is typical of open source. DX came in and stomped all over them during their ego pissing contest, in many ways DX is something MS done right given the OGL alternative at that time.
I remember the days when C was not your standard C, it was Borland C vs Visual C vs etc etc.. lol so count yourself lucky what tools you have today, then again have you seen the cost of Visual Studio lol, ridiculous, even though I get MS employee pricing lol, Eclipse,. well if you start to use Eclipse outside of Java, it crashes more than Visual Studio (which does crash a lot too).
The big money is in big AAA title franchise licensing and also mobile gaming and micropayments, and that means basically, Windows and Consoles and Mobiles. Linux has the sigma of everybody is a pirate and wont pay a penny, and in many ways they are right, gaming as a service and micropayments will want to hit as many platforms as possible, so it boils down to market demographics and metrics (CCP loves these as we seen in Incarna).
End of the day, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Same as it is in Eve game, if you don't like a contract price or item, stfu and walk away. |
Kale Kold
the united Negative Ten.
89
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/valve-is-porting-steam-and-the-source-engine-to-linux-20120425/ GÇ£Some people call me insane for the destruction-áIGÇÖve caused, ...I believe I was just doing my duty!GÇ¥ -- Testimony submitted to Caldari Navy war crimes tribunal. |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
730
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Savage Angel wrote:Microsoft has a lot of power and uses it almost exclusively to force the world onto the Windows desktop. No tinfoil hat needed as it has been proven in several anti-trust cases. They gimped OpenGL once DirectX was out, and had incentives to developers to use their proprietary stuff rather than any open standards.
MS business as usual.
If Linux was a quality desktop product, people would use it. However there are too many nerds fighting over who's distro is more awesome than the next making forward progression and compatibility something that becomes a second thought.
A list of fixes for the new inventory
Dual Pane idea clicky |
Markus Reese
Incertae Sedis Cascade Imminent
194
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote: No. Reason is that to get access to critical system files in any Unix based system requires administrator rights. When you're logged in as normal user you have full access only to your own home folder. Of course there are viruses that can exploit any hole in system to get around this but those are very rare. Very bad security issues gets fixed in hours rather than weeks. It's not same for Windows. Of course UAC helps a bit but virus can still do damaga to system even without rights.
And that's only desktop market. Look at servers and supercomputers and Windows is in minority.
The same is windows. Problem is 95% of windows users set up their default login as administrator. And of those, only 1% maybe know what they are doing with a computer. Anybody I set up a computer, I have an admin account, but they log in as non admin. Never any problems. Windows issues is more that than anything else. Linux is a PITA for most people, and having to go to the source community for most things, even more of a pain. Is why I use windows, my stuff works, and I never have problems because I know how to set it up. Sure efficiency issues, but I would rather that than compatability issues. |
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Hulkageddon Orphanage
1223
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sycho Pathic wrote:Doc Severide wrote:3DFX and Glide.....The Good ol days... I stumbled across several Voodoo cards while packing for the move to the new house. (Along with some Tseng Labs ET4000 cards and a Number Nine card I used under Windows 3.0 that, adjusted for today's dollar, cost more than most used cars) Was going to keep them for nostalgia's sake but my wife got to the box before I could get it on the truck. >.<
I used to have a Voodoo 3, that was an awesome card to play Tribes with |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Andy DelGardo wrote:The PS3 uses a very different openGL 1.0 version, which is quite different from the current openGL 4.2 version.
OpenGL ES 1.0 and has some features from OpenGL ES 2.0. |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
89
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
CARB0N FIBER wrote:Like most people that count I started with DOS(never really figured it out). Moved on to windows. About 3 years ago I switched to Mac. I will never go back! Everyone is intitled to their opinion. Mine is, there is Mac than there is everything else. I love Eve, CCP not so much. I do thank CCP for making Eve playable on Mac. If that ever changes I will give Eve up, despite my addiction. Jjust like I gave up the devils grass 10 years ago and cigarettes 2 months ago. I can't beat addiction, I can!
this post is full of great rambling fail, I love it so much, i think I can now die happy oh, op, what post 2 and 3 said |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
89
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Sycho Pathic wrote:Doc Severide wrote:3DFX and Glide.....The Good ol days... I stumbled across several Voodoo cards while packing for the move to the new house. (Along with some Tseng Labs ET4000 cards and a Number Nine card I used under Windows 3.0 that, adjusted for today's dollar, cost more than most used cars) Was going to keep them for nostalgia's sake but my wife got to the box before I could get it on the truck. >.< I used to have a Voodoo 3, that was an awesome card to play Tribes with
Gotta go fast! |
ctx2007
Wychwood and Wells
67
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
The reason Windows is so popular is microsoft issue SDK for publishers of software to work from.
Apples attitude is basically stuff the publishers as according to an interesting article I read in PC PRO magazine Nov 2011.
this is of course not the right way to isolate die hard apple professionals who might enjoy some gaming to relax. |
Beef Knuckleback
Pawnstars INC The Fendahlian Collective
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
I've been using Mac and Windows daily for the past fifteen years, and in my professional experience Windows just flat-out better for 3d. The Mac can do the job - and do it reasonably well - but in terms of games performance the Mac is left in the dust.
A huge part of that in my opinion is due to economic factors. One line of Apple hardware has upgradeable video cards, and that line is the most expensive hardware that Apple ships. You can buy multiple kick-ass windows-based whitebox gaming rigs for the price of a single Power Mac, and video card upgrades in the windows space are more numerous, varied, and a hell of a lot cheaper than they are in the Apple space. Combine that with solid developer support for DirectX and the number of major supported 3d applications available for Windows and the fact is you can run more Windows-based 3d workstations that can do more than Macs for less of an up-front investment, with vastly cheaper upgrade costs.
Economically, windows is a clear winner.
|
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
3DFX was (and kinda still is) best. We will never see such a creativity. Why they lost it when they sold themselves to Nvidia? |
Fredfredbug4
The Scope Gallente Federation
338
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
More people use Windows. Therefore there are more potential customers. That's why game developers opted for Windows.
Did you know Halo was originally supposed to be on the Mac? Bungie decided to switch to the Xbox because they realized that back then the only people who actually bought macs were designers and architects. |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
90
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:3DFX was (and kinda still is) best. We will never see such a creativity. Why they lost it when they sold themselves to Nvidia?
omg! a 3dfx fanboy! in the wild! I thought all the remaining viable populations where kept in zoos.
I just died and went to heaven, this thread delivers |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:omg! a 3dfx fanboy! in the wild! I thought all the remaining viable populations where kept in zoos.
I just died and went to heaven, this thread delivers
What good stuff Nvidia has innovated? |
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Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
508
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Since the original Digital Paradise has long since faded, never making it into the 21st Century, and was replaced by corporate portals, Google and Facebook, it's quaint to see a plea for open source. The great pioneers of coding never achieved the sophistication of their competitors. Even if it's free you get what you pay for.
They use Windows friendly code 'cause that's what we pay them to do. Fortunately, our devs aren't crusaders for open source. This ensures we get quality, not philosophy. Anyone with any sense has already left town. |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
90
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:More people use Windows. Therefore there are more potential customers. That's why game developers opted for Windows.
Did you know Halo was originally supposed to be on the Mac? Bungie decided to switch to the Xbox because they realized that back then the only people who actually bought macs were designers and architects.
yes yes, only huge ass games, or games from kick ass games companys support mac's, is it really worth discussing further? I think we have covered it in the first 4 posts. Whats important here is someone called themselves out as a 3dfx fanboy, and that's a lot of fun for everyone, I think. Also, tribes was mentioned, so.. shazbot? |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
90
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:omg! a 3dfx fanboy! in the wild! I thought all the remaining viable populations where kept in zoos.
I just died and went to heaven, this thread delivers What good stuff Nvidia has innovated?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia
have fun |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia
have fun
You want to play "PhysX" card, eh?
- Originally developed by Ageia - It's proprietary softaware so limited to Nvidia cards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary_software
Fail. Try again. |
Beef Knuckleback
Pawnstars INC The Fendahlian Collective
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Did you know Halo was originally supposed to be on the Mac? Bungie decided to switch to the Xbox because they realized that back then the only people who actually bought macs were designers and architects.
You're half right.
Bungie was a Mac developer back in the day, and arguably the best Mac-centric games company out there (Blizzard and iD titles being ports).
Halo was developed as a Mac title and was going to be the reason for gamers to buy a Mac until Microsoft realized they needed a kick-ass launch title for the X-Box. MS bought Bungie,* Halo was First To X-Box, and all of the sequels (that I'm aware of) have been specific to Microsoft platforms.
Bungie's "decision" to target the X-Box was accepting the Microsoft buyout. And yes, this was during the period in which the primary users of Macs were designers - that's since changed to Hipsters with designers as an increasingly niche demographic for reasons unrelated to gaming.
* Wikipedia says they split from MS in 2007 and now have a ten year deal with Activizzard, so there's that. |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
90
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia
have fun You want to play "PhysX" card, eh? - Originally developed by Ageia - It's proprietary software so limited to Nvidia cards http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary_softwareFail. Try again.
what, no, what? how about 256? H T&L anyone? Also, lol
there is a reason 3dfx died, and was scooped up for nothing but the Word "SLI" years later voodoo 5, lolz |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
850
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sycho Pathic wrote:Doc Severide wrote:3DFX and Glide.....The Good ol days... I stumbled across several Voodoo cards while packing for the move to the new house. (Along with some Tseng Labs ET4000 cards and a Number Nine card I used under Windows 3.0 that, adjusted for today's dollar, cost more than most used cars) Was going to keep them for nostalgia's sake but my wife got to the box before I could get it on the truck. >.<
Glad I am still holding on my Tseng Labs ET3000 8 bits. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:what, no, what? how about 256? H T&L anyone? Also, lol
there is a reason 3dfx died, and was scooped up for nothing but the Word "SLI" years later voodoo 5, lolz
Nvidia wasn't hardware 3D acceleration pioneer.
Oh, now I get it. - Drivers destroying cards because fan fails to start - Godly Geforce FX |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
93
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:41:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:what, no, what? how about 256? H T&L anyone? Also, lol
there is a reason 3dfx died, and was scooped up for nothing but the Word "SLI" years later voodoo 5, lolz Nvidia wasn't hardware 3D acceleration pioneer. Oh, now I get it. - Drivers destroying cards because fan fails to start - Godly Geforce FX
This is more fun then I could have ever imagined, good show.
Was that even in english? Nvidia wasn't hardware 3D acceleration pioneer huh? That's not a sentence dude, you are missing one or two of those, you know, those things.. oh ya, words
If you your your computer box needs more words, homestar runner could help you out, I believe |
Styx Cyc
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:50:00 -
[40] - Quote
Programing for PC's with Windows is already a difficult task as it is, with the amount of different hardware out there with so many different driver versions for all of it.
The problem is made worse when even the OS is extremely customizable like that of Linux, where most people have switched and rewritten a lot of things to their liking.
Then ontop of that, add a userbase so small that its really not worth it to also develop and mantain compatible code for it. Eve had a Linux client for a while and they dropped it because there wasn't enough people using that client to make it worth while economically.
|
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Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
356
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
Styx Cyc wrote:Programing for PC's with Windows is already a difficult task as it is, with the amount of different hardware out there with so many different driver versions for all of it.
The problem is made worse when even the OS is extremely customizable like that of Linux, where most people have switched and rewritten a lot of things to their liking.
Then ontop of that, add a userbase so small that its really not worth it to also develop and mantain compatible code for it. Eve had a Linux client for a while and they dropped it because there wasn't enough people using that client to make it worth while economically.
No it's not, however programming for different mobiles IS. Mostly due to vendor feckups such as HTC lol
Programming for Windows game platforms is easy, just use Steam Hardware Survey for REAL LIFE metrics on platforms and pick some to target. Mobiles however is not so easy, thanks to HTC and co fecking up with vendor specific issues.
Even worse, is Linux, so let's just skip that all together :) Mac, Windows, PS and XBOX are too easy to code for, just use Unreal Engine :) Mobiles its a pain in the arse, Linux, don't even go there. Anyway too little money on Linux anyway and the only reason we take the pain with mobiles is the huge money pot via viral word of mouth on games and socal heresay and also micro payments. Large volume of impulse purcahses and low cost. Even better is facebook games, spam their wall's for free advertising :) |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 20:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
Miilla wrote:Mac, Windows, PS and XBOX are too easy to code for
PS is actually very difficult platform for programmers. |
Valerie Tessel
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
127
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 20:04:00 -
[43] - Quote
Neptune Thunderclap wrote:Is it that DirectX is easier or better than OpenGL, even if OpenGL is cross-platform? Why do we not see real powerful games for Linux like there are for Windows? The reason game devs usually don't write for Linux is the same reason novels aren't written in Latin. Support Aegis Destroyers: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97610 |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
357
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 20:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Miilla wrote:Mac, Windows, PS and XBOX are too easy to code for PS is actually very difficult platform for programmers.
Not if you use Unreal Engine :) The only real difficulty is dealing with Sony,'s PSN, which isn't as bad as dealing with XBOX Live. |
Twulf
The Konvergent League Sanctuary Pact
69
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 20:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Is say cause there are more of them... Kinda the reason there arent viri for macs oh whoops
Mac's have virus and spyware and everything else that haunts Windows systems but the fact that there are not that many compared to Windows is why you do not hear about them.
Like I always tell people. Why create a Virus for a Million users when you can create one for a billion users?
Also Windows is the most used OS on the planet and most used for home computers which is what most games are built for home users to play on home computers. (granted my home PC is a beast and way better then my computer at work and I am in the IT field).
MAC is a solid OS but the price of Apples is what turns me away, why would I pay an extra $1000 dollars for an Apple logo? The hardware inside is the same as a PC, so why spend the extra money? (Unless you are make graphics or sound, PC does everything better)
Linux is a great OS but not many people are going to be able to use it, many people can't use windows and you want them to have to use command lines? yea right.
PS3, Xbox360 both use Linux OS. I think it is funny as hell that Xbox360 does not use a windows OS and its made by Microsoft who's flag ship product is Windows. |
Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
89
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 20:25:00 -
[46] - Quote
1. market share (this has large ramifications)
2. hardware support (this is tied to 1)
3. documentation and support also tied to 1.
Linux has come a long ways and it can compete with windows in gaming .
but the market share is just not there nor is the hardware support .
making things work on windows is already hard enough for developers adding in the weird flukes that come with linux can be the straw that breaks the camels back.
With that being said if a developer builds their game in a bubble for linux there usually is no problem with it. but most developers do not use this method for some reason .
the hardware support, documentation, and vendor support offered to a windows developer, is what makes a windows pc the number 1 gaming platform.
none of these issues are simple tasks to conquer, a whole industry is built around this system .
but smart phones and tablets may be the inroads needed to flip this situation . but things need to be a lot less proprietary and whole lot more open before it unseats the current regime . |
Dheeradj Nurgle
Misfit Syndicate Warden.
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 20:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
As much as I love GNU/Linux, would you rather develop for a solid metal block(MS Windows), or lego (GNU/Linux) |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
129
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 20:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
Windows is much more managable for the average user.
Linux, as good as it is, will never go mainstream as long as you pretty much need to know a few basic command line operations to get it to work and keep it working. Despite the most recent developments of distros this is still the case - troubleshooting on a Linux PC is simply not possible for 90% of all average users and difficult at least for the rest.
It's the simple reality of it all.
That, and the Windows market share is self perpetuating since most people use windows, so the most programs are made for windows, so most people use windows... |
Redstar1
Blueprint Haus Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2012.05.23 21:28:00 -
[49] - Quote
I use both, but I don't tend to use Linux with a GUI because I can use Windows instead. Linux is handy, but lets face it, it's never going to be a mainstream desktop OS, and I'm fine with that. I do a lot of work in the 'cloud' and MS has it sewn up (along with Citrix). I know of entire organisations that are moving to cloud based systems and replacing all their agents laptops with iPads... do MS care? Not a jot because the iPads are connecting to Windows 7 VDIs.. result is MS make even more money than if those laptops were replaced like for like with Windows/Office installed.
They've won, someone had to. Let's keep encouraging them to make the progress they've shown with 2008 R2, W7 and now Server 8.
As for Linux, as a poster said earlier it can be a huge pain in the arse. I've spent 2 days trying to get a server up and running that does little more than IDS/IPS and it was a complete nightmare on a 64bit CentOS distro. The same software on a Windows box was up and running in under 20 minutes.
*shrug*
It's expected though. Windows is a general purpose OS, Linux works best when it isn't. |
Josef Djugashvilis
214
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Posted - 2012.05.23 21:33:00 -
[50] - Quote
Savage Angel wrote:Microsoft has a lot of power and uses it almost exclusively to force the world onto the Windows desktop. No tinfoil hat needed as it has been proven in several anti-trust cases. They gimped OpenGL once DirectX was out, and had incentives to developers to use their proprietary stuff rather than any open standards.
MS business as usual.
Capitalism, red in tooth and claw.
It was ever thus. You want fries with that? |
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Endeavour Starfleet
820
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Posted - 2012.05.23 21:34:00 -
[51] - Quote
Neptune Thunderclap wrote:Is it that DirectX is easier or better than OpenGL, even if OpenGL is cross-platform? Why do we not see real powerful games for Linux like there are for Windows?
Open GL is a mess to code from what I understand. When they refused to properly update it for so long to match the ease of use of Direct X. Many developers jumped ship.
Open GL thought they could be lazy and keep to the old ways longer. In the meantime game development costs skyrocketed so savings from switching to DX were significant. |
Sin Pew
SWARTA Mostly Clueless
38
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 21:55:00 -
[52] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Sycho Pathic wrote:Doc Severide wrote:3DFX and Glide.....The Good ol days... I stumbled across several Voodoo cards while packing for the move to the new house. (Along with some Tseng Labs ET4000 cards and a Number Nine card I used under Windows 3.0 that, adjusted for today's dollar, cost more than most used cars) Was going to keep them for nostalgia's sake but my wife got to the box before I could get it on the truck. >.< I used to have a Voodoo 3, that was an awesome card to play Tribes with Has memories of skiing and epic airshots... Shazbot! [20:03:08] Sin Pew > I regret the auto zoom when my ship blows, I'd llike to see the fireworks at least if I'm going to blow |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
334
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 23:56:00 -
[53] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:omg! a 3dfx fanboy! in the wild! I thought all the remaining viable populations where kept in zoos.
I just died and went to heaven, this thread delivers What good stuff Nvidia has innovated? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidiahave fun
Nvidia got most of it's tech bumps from acquisitions, not research and that link kinda backs that statement up. Don't get me wrong, it's my favorite provider of graphics technology at the moment, but their skills really lie in marketing, not innovation.
If 3dfx had survived graphics processing would probably be a fair bit further than it is now. |
bongsmoke
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 00:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
This sums it up.
I'd like ubuntu to get some love in these terms, but then microsoft would cry.
I love Mac products, minus their computers, iphone and ipad rock. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1524
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 01:13:00 -
[55] - Quote
Open GL can be powerful but it was never really intended for games.
As for catering to Linux, I think it's a dark plot to trick the independent-minded into an endless world of codec/driver/source lib HELL and getting nothing done.
And I don't see Bill Gates standing on a bridge ready to kill himself just because some people don't use Windows.
I think the joke is on those who don't. Ever try to get some work done with people like that? Lots of time spent on user groups trying to find a driver or compile something or some make file is not working.
Yes yes, resist Microsoft and Bill Gates and his eugenics-driven new world order agenda. I get it.
But when I need a gun, do I try to make one from scrap metal that will probably fail after a few shots or do I get creative with a hammer and get one made in a factory owned by the enemy but I know it will work?
Using Windows is what I like to call the Maquis approach. They took Federation ships and modified them.
And finally, even a rudimentary knowledge of C#, the XNA game studio setup, and some "model import fu" can have you creating games in short order. In one day I made a demo program for a graphics project (not a game but I had freedom to choose how I did it) with a little space ship flying around and I used a Tie Interceptor model found on the web, and I wrote my own EvE-like quaternion camera class for it, and it launched little missiles (yeah Tie Interceptors didn't have missiles I get it for the last time).
And I am no expert in XNA, but it was all free and it works. |
miss eve2006
Fairtrade Syndicate
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 08:05:00 -
[56] - Quote
only reason windows go so much ground, is because its presold with all new pc's, and most games / apps doesnt come to linux... I love linux, but just cant use for my gaming pc. |
Cyrina Manto
Masons of New Eden The Laughing Men
10
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Posted - 2012.05.24 08:23:00 -
[57] - Quote
Linux... I love Linux for my servers and general browsing / productivity boxes. OGL support for any recent hardware is abysmal though.
I loose 50% or more of my frame rate going from native Windows OGL binaries to native Linux OGL binaries.
Java OTOH absolutely screams on Linux. My Minecraft servers run faster on exponentially slower hardware when using Linux |
Kiandoshia
Gnampf Inc.
78
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 08:24:00 -
[58] - Quote
Everyone has Windows. |
ColumnaLcis
Noir. Academy Noir. Mercenary Group
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 09:03:00 -
[59] - Quote
Once many nerfs ago CCP did have a Linux client. Sadly it ended as the numbers of nix users didn't justify the cost of development. Noir. Academy is Open -á-á-áPVP with purpose. -á-á-áOrganisation, Discipline, Practice. http://noirmercs.com |
Jessica Sweetwater
Novindus Equilibrium Frentix Alliance
38
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 09:05:00 -
[60] - Quote
Neptune Thunderclap wrote:Is it that DirectX is easier or better than OpenGL, even if OpenGL is cross-platform? Why do we not see real powerful games for Linux like there are for Windows?
If u even need to ask this. U shouldnt be asking it
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7214
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 09:18:00 -
[61] - Quote
Mina Hiragi wrote:Because Linux, as a desktop operating system, is even less popular than a new inventory management window. That's just meanGǪ
GǪto both of them.
Markus Reese wrote:The same is windows. Problem is 95% of windows users set up their default login as administrator. And of those, only 1% maybe know what they are doing with a computer. Anybody I set up a computer, I have an admin account, but they log in as non admin. Never any problems. Windows issues is more that than anything else. WeeellGǪ the corollary to that is that up until very recently when MS started demanding harder compliance, the same held true for many developers. They made programs that flat-out assumed that they would have administrator privileges and could crap out files wherever they wanted. It was outright hilarious to do things like write-protecting the c: root or the Gǣall usersGǥ file & setting directories and see some software just crash and burn because the bone-headed developer treated both as universally available dumps for whatever junk files the program needed to create. Environment and user variables? Pah, who needs 'em?!
That's also the real reason why UAC was such a mess at first: because so many programs kept wanting to do things that they had no business doing, triggering escalation attempts out of nowhere. These days, somewhat stricter coding standards and an increasing awareness of how to properly program for a restricted environment has made that problem (largely) go away.
Jorma Morkkis wrote:What good stuff Nvidia has innovated? The GeForce 256 was spectacularly ahead of its time when it came outGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Josef Djugashvilis
222
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Posted - 2012.05.24 11:51:00 -
[62] - Quote
Malice Redeemer wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:3DFX was (and kinda still is) best. We will never see such a creativity. Why they lost it when they sold themselves to Nvidia? omg! a 3dfx fanboy! in the wild! I thought all the remaining viable populations where kept in zoos. I just died and went to heaven, this thread delivers
Some years ago I had two voodoo cards in the one pc.
I think they had a combined power of 24mb.
You want fries with that? |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum Alliance 99000802
593
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 11:59:00 -
[63] - Quote
Really if Linux would focus around a single distro, then gaming/tech companies MIGHT take them seriously. However right now you have too many distros of Linux and not a clear mainstream ready one. Until that happens companies aren't going to bother wasting any development time on converting to that OS. Especially when they can rely on wine to pick up the slack. |
Cebraio
Starfire Oasis
70
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 12:13:00 -
[64] - Quote
CARB0N FIBER wrote:Like most people that count I started with DOS(never really figured it out). Moved on to windows. About 3 years ago I switched to Mac. I will never go back! Everyone is intitled to their opinion. Mine is, there is Mac than there is everything else. I love Eve, CCP not so much. I do thank CCP for making Eve playable on Mac. If that ever changes I will give Eve up, despite my addiction. Jjust like I gave up the devils grass 10 years ago and cigarettes 2 months ago. I can't beat addiction, I can! What you wrote there, made me think that your days of pot smoking are not gone for long. |
Ymmi Stenson
Aquila Crysaetos Aquila Societatem
10
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Posted - 2012.05.24 12:15:00 -
[65] - Quote
Neptune Thunderclap wrote:Is it that DirectX is easier or better than OpenGL, even if OpenGL is cross-platform? Why do we not see real powerful games for Linux like there are for Windows? If your clients use Windows, why in hell would you make games for Linux?
I use Ubuntu/debian, but don-¦t even wish games for them. So much easier to have WIn7 in gaming laptop. |
Cebraio
Starfire Oasis
70
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 12:18:00 -
[66] - Quote
Zagdul wrote: If Linux was a quality desktop product, people would use it. Firefox/Chrome are examples of awesome free software that are better than what MS puts out. Another example is CCleaner.
However there are too many nerds fighting over who's distro is more awesome than the next making forward progression and compatibility something that becomes a second thought.
Although I agree with you on the part of "free software will be used, if it's superior", I must say that for me there is only one solid reason not to prefer Linux over Windows: You cannot really play games on it.
So it's a treadmill: People like me won't use Linux at home because they can't properly play games on it. Game developers don't develop for Linux because very few gamers use it.
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Francisco Bizzaro
124
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Posted - 2012.05.24 12:22:00 -
[67] - Quote
Does anyone know what TQ runs?
CCP is a microsoft shop by my understanding, and in particular the database is MS-SQL. So I guess it's some kind of MS cluster suite.
But high-performance computing pretty much a linux world. The same tuning that makes it a chore as a desktop OS makes it ideal for running a reliable, efficient and fast set of compute nodes. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
919
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 12:22:00 -
[68] - Quote
Zagdul wrote: If Linux was a quality desktop product, people would use it. Firefox/Chrome are examples of awesome free software that are better than what MS puts out. Another example is CCleaner.
Chrome amy not cost you money, but that doesn't mean that it's free.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Cebraio
Starfire Oasis
70
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 12:30:00 -
[69] - Quote
Francisco Bizzaro wrote:Does anyone know what TQ runs?
CCP is a microsoft shop by my understanding, and in particular the database is MS-SQL. So I guess it's some kind of MS cluster suite.
But high-performance computing pretty much a linux world. The same tuning that makes it a chore as a desktop OS makes it ideal for running a reliable, efficient and fast set of compute nodes.
MS Windows Server 2008. CCP has "deals" with Microsoft and nVidia.
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Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
85
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 12:31:00 -
[70] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Malice Redeemer wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:3DFX was (and kinda still is) best. We will never see such a creativity. Why they lost it when they sold themselves to Nvidia? omg! a 3dfx fanboy! in the wild! I thought all the remaining viable populations where kept in zoos. I just died and went to heaven, this thread delivers Some years ago I had two voodoo cards in the one pc. I think they had a combined power of 24mb. Yes, those were the days when you had a "main" video card and then the 2 VooDoo II cards in SLI. Back then, SLI stood for Scan Line Interface mode. Nowadays it is Scalable Link Interface...
Having the 2 cards allowed games to run at 1024 x 768 as opposed to 800 x 600 with one card. Laughable today when I look at 2560 x 1600... |
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Andy DelGardo
Hedion University Amarr Empire
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.24 12:32:00 -
[71] - Quote
Just as a small reminder, since this seems to get forgotten. U don't just simply choose directx or openGL as a game-developer, u choose your engine on the market. Currently we have UDK/Unreal, Valves, CryEngine and Unity3D, Id's new engine and Bethesda's old are none public.
So the question is will those engines support linux in the future? The answer is: probably, since they already have to abstract lots of layers for all the mobile platforms, which makes a linux port more "manageable" and realistic. So after they nailed every other platform on the market, in the end they will port it also to linux, simply because its not this hard if u already have 3 console and 6 mobile platforms supported. The problem however is that linux will always be last :( So any new platform will delay this further by some years, except if the developers are linux "fans" or see some strategic value in it.
bye Andy |
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