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Allyxy
Lumen et Umbra
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think IGÇÖm going to express now a very controversial opinion that will be prolly fought especially by veteran eve players.
However I feel I have to talk.
It seems that there is a GÇ£mantraGÇ¥ in eve that cannot be discussed because, for many players, itGÇÖis the fundamental reason why they play EveGǪ at the same time I think this is exactly the same reason why Eve is a relatively GÇ£NicheGÇ¥ game that, in itGÇÖs current format, cannot really aspire to a larger audience of players.
Before coming to the point, IGÇÖve to say that IGÇÖve been myself a game developer and now CEO of an IT firm, I also played a lot of games online and offline for many years, including many of the today online best-of-breed games and a core eve player since more than two years now running multiple accounts.
So, In my modest opinion, the MAIN big point why EVE, in its current form, is destined to remain a GÇ£core ppl gameGÇ¥ with a relatively small number of players is this:
GÇ£PVPGÇ¥
Wow PVP!!!!
Yes, this is the main reason why many of us like this game so much and this is exactly why much more ppl donGÇÖt like it. ItGÇÖs easily to check with relatives and friends the main problems they encounter when they get into the game, we all know about learning curve, scarce tutorial, cold interface, complex actions etcGǪ however if you dig deeper, while some like to try pvp sooner or later, many more are completely scared by it, frustrated if they try it and, most important, they donGÇÖt want to care about competition!
Yes, think about it without prejudice: compared to the number of competitive ppl that like games like EVE today, many more prefer cooperative game environment.
DonGÇÖt tell me that EVE is cooperativeGǪ. I know it is, but most of the cooperation is always open to PVP and you have to plan all you work on the game, you corp, your alliance etcGǪ around PVP.
A simplistic example: I met many many ppl that would love to join fleet where they cannot kill each other nor be attacked by other players etcGǪ but just focus con carebearing things like exploration, plexing, mining etcGǪ Beware, IGÇÖm not saying remove PVP from EVE!
What IGÇÖm saying is that if we would like to have double players, or triple or ten times what we have today, EVE shall implement places where non-competitive, non-aggressive, friendly players can simply enjoy the fly in space and the sandbox universe (OBV Empire today is not the answer, way too much PVP takes place there). Most non-pvp ppl donGÇÖt really want to care about win something against other players, but just fix their own simple targets and try to make those with some friends or even alone.
Someone could argue: do we really want 10 times more players in eve? Or 10 times more carebears? My answer would be YESSSSS!!!! All life long!
At least three very good reasons: 1.We can finally have some (or some more) RL friends playing the game we love with us! 2.CCP will have 10 time more real life ISKS to provide us a much better game, with faster implementation and a bigger universe 3.We will have a bigger market, more options, more isks and overall more fun
To finish this long and probably boring issue, something for CCP: Every time you say, advertise, write or in any other way put out sentences like Gǣmore shooting in face, more player wars etcGǪGǥ while you push up the core-players for sure, you LOSE MANY MANY more potential players!
I had to say the above for the passion I have toward EVE, donGÇÖt shoot me now but if you want to IGÇÖm ready
Allyxy
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Christopher AET
Segmentum Solar Intrepid Crossing
92
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:46:00 -
[2] - Quote
www.hellokittyonline.com I speak only for myself and my corp. My views are not representative of my alliance. |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
90
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Allyxy wrote:I think IGÇÖm going to express now a very controversial opinion that will be prolly fought especially by veteran eve players. However I feel I have to talk. It seems that there is a GÇ£mantraGÇ¥ in eve that cannot be discussed because, for many players, itGÇÖis the fundamental reason why they play EveGǪ at the same time I think this is exactly the same reason why Eve is a relatively GÇ£NicheGÇ¥ game that, in itGÇÖs current format, cannot really aspire to a larger audience of players. Before coming to the point, IGÇÖve to say that IGÇÖve been myself a game developer and now CEO of an IT firm, I also played a lot of games online and offline for many years, including many of the today online best-of-breed games and a core eve player since more than two years now running multiple accounts. So, In my modest opinion, the MAIN big point why EVE, in its current form, is destined to remain a GÇ£core ppl gameGÇ¥ with a relatively small number of players is this: GÇ£PVPGÇ¥Wow PVP!!!!Yes, this is the main reason why many of us like this game so much and this is exactly why much more ppl donGÇÖt like it. ItGÇÖs easily to check with relatives and friends the main problems they encounter when they get into the game, we all know about learning curve, scarce tutorial, cold interface, complex actions etcGǪ however if you dig deeper, while some like to try pvp sooner or later, many more are completely scared by it, frustrated if they try it and, most important, they donGÇÖt want to care about competition! Yes, think about it without prejudice: compared to the number of competitive ppl that like games like EVE today, many more prefer cooperative game environment. DonGÇÖt tell me that EVE is cooperativeGǪ. I know it is, but most of the cooperation is always open to PVP and you have to plan all you work on the game, you corp, your alliance etcGǪ around PVP. A simplistic example: I met many many ppl that would love to join fleet where they cannot kill each other nor be attacked by other players etcGǪ but just focus con carebearing things like exploration, plexing, mining etcGǪ Beware, IGÇÖm not saying remove PVP from EVE! What IGÇÖm saying is that if we would like to have double players, or triple or ten times what we have today, EVE shall implement places where non-competitive, non-aggressive, friendly players can simply enjoy the fly in space and the sandbox universe (OBV Empire today is not the answer, way too much PVP takes place there). Most non-pvp ppl donGÇÖt really want to care about win something against other players, but just fix their own simple targets and try to make those with some friends or even alone. Someone could argue: do we really want 10 times more players in eve? Or 10 times more carebears? My answer would be YESSSSS!!!! All life long! At least three very good reasons: 1.We can finally have some (or some more) RL friends playing the game we love with us! 2.CCP will have 10 time more real life ISKS to provide us a much better game, with faster implementation and a bigger universe 3.We will have a bigger market, more options, more isks and overall more fun To finish this long and probably boring issue, something for CCP: Every time you say, advertise, write or in any other way put out sentences like GÇ£more shooting in face, more player wars etcGǪGÇ¥ while you push up the core-players for sure, you LOSE MANY MANY more potential players!
I had to say the above for the passion I have toward EVE, donGÇÖt shoot me now but if you want to IGÇÖm ready Allyxy
is there a suggestion in there? |
Markus Reese
Incertae Sedis Cascade Imminent
195
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Didn't have time to read it all, but yes. It needs more pve, more small fleet complexity to get people's interest into doing the pvp. Also allow a form of earning for those that dont' have the time to invest in full time pvp operations. And stuff about a bit more security for new players? Dunno how to go about that, but players constantly under harass will become bothered and leave. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1654
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
So, your 'solution' for a problem that doesn't actually exist (Eve being a niche game isn't a problem, it's a feature) is to suggest that the very heart of Eve (dangerous space with PvP anywhere and everywhere) be ripped out and thrown away. It's not going to happen. |
alittlebirdy
All Hail The Liopleurodon
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
TLDR we found out anyways the servers can't deal with many more people
Also I've is not used how you think it is. |
Vyl Vit
Cambio Enterprises
508
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
It's an EVE tradition to pretend how you play it is the only way to play it. This includes getting on this forum and declaring your thing is the ONLY thing. PvP-ers seem to think they're particularly special and there's a spot waiting for them in Digital Heaven while everybody else will spend eternity in Redwood, Washington enduring long sessions of Bill Gates bragfests. Do like my momma says. "Ignore ignorance." Anyone with any sense has already left town. |
Christopher AET
Segmentum Solar Intrepid Crossing
92
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
If you don't want to pvp why did you consent to it?
ie logged in I speak only for myself and my corp. My views are not representative of my alliance. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
121
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Your assumption is that we want those players. Think of it this way....
If you let 12 million players from hello kitty online dictate eve's next direction, you'll get hello kitty online in space.
We like eve the way it is. We like pvp in all aspects. It is why we are here. On my indy toons, I like knowing i am in competition to make t2 warp disrupts cheaper than others with a healthy view of my version if profit.
On my main, I like pvp so much, I joined RvB for a third time because where else can I get almost 30 kills in the hour and a half I play each night.
So really, what would more pve players net us? More voice dictating ccp move away from the core fundamental pvp nature of eve.
Think of it this way, if you like your it firm, you wouldn't hire your employees out to do landscaping in addition to the it work, especially if you knew such a move would turn your firm into Joe's landscaping service.
Eve is pvp and yes it may be a niche game, but by god that is how we like it. |
Cedar Locus
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
36
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
its not getting more players cause ccp is greedy as hell |
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gobbybobby
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Christopher AET wrote:www.hellokittyonline.com
wow ****, I might just unsub eve for a few months and check this out,
alot of MMOs have gone FTP. Would eve work with a FTP model tho, thats the question.
dust is FTP so we will wait and see.
I know alot of my RL freinds would try eve if it went Free to play, the sub price puts people off.
Plex= someone else have paid for your game time, which in my eyes is not free!!! |
TheBreadMuncher
Boxxed Up Industries EPIC Alliance
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 18:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Allyxy wrote: We can finally have some (or some more) RL friends playing the game we love with us!
BAD. Last time I interacted with a friend, it was to raid a POS alongside him. He grabbed a rorq, I grabbed a good bil or so in ore and a carrier. Unfortunately, 'cause he was a RL friend, I couldn't simply lay an ambush for him and ransom the rorqual for his pod. No, I had to LET HIM SHARE. Sharing is caring, but this ain't carebears online - this is EvE. Less people I can gank and rob with a clean conscience means more reasons to quit. I only ever emerge from the shadows when my main is banned. |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Obligatory go play WoW comment. |
Ryoken McKeon
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
No, this theory is wrong. This game has such low subs because of how complicated it is to figure out in the beginning and the general lack of direction for new players. I joined a corp on my first day, and literally the first thing I did when I got into their system was shoot at WTs. If things hadn't worked out that way, if I hadn't joined a corp on my first day, I probably would never have continued.
What you are saying may turn off some MMO players, but I don't think it is anything like as significant for sub pop as the learning curve. |
Dethbringer1
NoWar4Me
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
EVE is truely a PVE game NOT a PVP game! Why else do I have to kill 4,000 battleships to replace my tengu???? True PVP games do not make you work for a week to die once. Anyone who thinks this is a PVP based game is a moron!!! Yeah my character has 50m sp. Lets go gank some miners and noob mission runner corps.... This game is about PVE and Griefing Primarily... everything else is secondary.... As long as you have a game where someone with 6 years of sp can freely kill players with 1 month of sp.... you will have a hard time recruiting new players... Oh wait they can't freely kill. They have to pay 2m first... ROTFLMFAO. I make that in 20 secs! A noob takes a week to make that lol... Seriously. I know nothing about programming but let me throw out a few suggestions. How bout making a character with 1m sp immune to players with 50m sp.... how bout making a sp system like they had in Runescape. The farther you go into low sec the bigger the sp difference can be... There is no love for noobs in eve so I think this games days are truely numbered. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
962
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
yes, let's take eve and turn into the lowest common denominator prolefeed to appease subhuman mongrels like yourself |
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
If you have to give up your soul to gain a few subs, what have you really gained? |
Mina Hiragi
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
tl;kr
The core of EVE is non-consensual PVP.
Remove that - as you suggest - and the game is dead. End of story. You cannot remove the core of an MMO without killing it. It doesn't matter what whizbang shiny Hello Kitty ideas you're going to bring in that will purportedly lead to billions of happy fluffy campers.
The field is littered with the bodies of MMOs that have tried altering their core nature, and have died as a result.
Also EVE needs more Hello Kitty. I can haz Chococat insignia on my Rifters? |
Dethbringer1
NoWar4Me
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote:Obligatory go play WoW comment. I was always thinking WOW is for geeks but it's looking better every day lol. Not really. I'd go star trek online first then prolly battlefield 1942. |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
90
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Dethbringer1 wrote:EVE is truely a PVE game NOT a PVP game! Why else do I have to kill 4,000 battleships to replace my tengu???? True PVP games do not make you work for a week to die once. Anyone who thinks this is a PVP based game is a moron!!! Yeah my character has 50m sp. Lets go gank some miners and noob mission runner corps.... This game is about PVE and Griefing Primarily... everything else is secondary.... As long as you have a game where someone with 6 years of sp can freely kill players with 1 month of sp.... you will have a hard time recruiting new players... Oh wait they can't freely kill. They have to pay 2m first... ROTFLMFAO. I make that in 20 secs! A noob takes a week to make that lol... Seriously. I know nothing about programming but let me throw out a few suggestions. How bout making a character with 1m sp immune to players with 50m sp.... how bout making a sp system like they had in Runescape. The farther you go into low sec the bigger the sp difference can be... There is no love for noobs in eve so I think this games days are truely numbered.
What a joke, who can even understand these people. They would have just loved Shabowbane
Hey guy, don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it. |
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Ituhata Saken
Elysium Enterprises
86
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
Savage Angel wrote:If you have to give up your soul to gain a few subs, what have you really gained?
You say that as if EvE has a soul!
|
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
50
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
See what killed UO, then post again. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
90
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dethbringer1 wrote:Terranid Meester wrote:Obligatory go play WoW comment. I was always thinking WOW is for geeks but it's looking better every day lol. Not really. I'd go star trek online first then prolly battlefield 1942.
Please do, wow is so freaking boring and safe, you will be just right at home. there are PVP servers, but when you die, nothing happens so no worries. |
Dethbringer1
NoWar4Me
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mina Hiragi wrote:tl;kr
The core of EVE is non-consensual PVP.
Remove that - as you suggest - and the game is dead. End of story. You cannot remove the core of an MMO without killing it. It doesn't matter what whizbang shiny Hello Kitty ideas you're going to bring in that will purportedly lead to billions of happy fluffy campers.
The field is littered with the bodies of MMOs that have tried altering their core nature, and have died as a result.
Also EVE needs more Hello Kitty. I can haz Chococat insignia on my Rifters?
You miss the point... I only suggested not letting 50m sp player gank 1m sp players. If EVE survival depends on 50m sp characters ganking 1m sp character..... Eve is already dead.... or just plain lame as can be.
Seriously... If you get your rocks off killing noobs with a 50m sp character you must be that 40 year old dude in your mothers basement like in southpark! |
Ryoken McKeon
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dethbringer1 wrote:Terranid Meester wrote:Obligatory go play WoW comment. I was always thinking WOW is for geeks but it's looking better every day lol. Not really. I'd go star trek online first then prolly battlefield 1942.
He thinks WoW is for geeks....while playing internet 'spreadsheet' spaceships. |
killorbekilled TBE
Dare Bears
83
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
Christopher AET wrote:www.hellokittyonline.com
yeah that's right i clicked it, don't look at me with those judging eyes
AFK for a shower to wash the shame off huh? |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
1057
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dethbringer1 wrote:EVE is truely a PVE game NOT a PVP game! Why else do I have to kill 4,000 battleships to replace my tengu???? True PVP games do not make you work for a week to die once. Anyone who thinks this is a PVP based game is a moron!!! Yeah my character has 50m sp. Lets go gank some miners and noob mission runner corps.... This game is about PVE and Griefing Primarily... everything else is secondary.... As long as you have a game where someone with 6 years of sp can freely kill players with 1 month of sp.... you will have a hard time recruiting new players... Oh wait they can't freely kill. They have to pay 2m first... ROTFLMFAO. I make that in 20 secs! A noob takes a week to make that lol... Seriously. I know nothing about programming but let me throw out a few suggestions. How bout making a character with 1m sp immune to players with 50m sp.... how bout making a sp system like they had in Runescape. The farther you go into low sec the bigger the sp difference can be... There is no love for noobs in eve so I think this games days are truely numbered. You could kill 10 battleships to replace 20 ships, you know. 20 ships that can still kill stuff (first PvP kill of that person's). Screw Tengus.
You are an idiot and a buffoon who does not know what PvP means or get that Eve is a sandbox. Stop talking.
@OP: Pulling Eve's focus away from PvP would kill player interaction based on opposition, which is a core tenet of Eve. Doing that would pull it closer to being in direct competition with WoW, which it just cannot stand up to in polish and PvE. It may garner more newbies for a bit, but other games that are made for the niche it is invading would pass it, and it would lose all of its old players -- likely resulting in its death. Eve is fine where it is now. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
664
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
Id love to see more players. Adding NON PVP areas isnt teh way to do it. Why?
I am a pvper, its what I do. However liek all pvpers I need isk I also pay to play using in game plex for isk. So I need isk ALOT. For teh most part I have to take time out of pvping to make my isk, I dont want to, but it is necessary. Where am I going with this?
I also utilise a hisec mining toon, I stick that toon in teh safest sytem I can and I afk mine whenever I am at home, on my (bad) laptop while the kids ar runnign around, while I watch movies, while I do housework. AFK, checking in every 10 mins or so to see if i need to empty the ore.
Where do you think I would do this is there were NON PVP areas? Where would EVERYONE IN HISEC do everything they do? That is why it cant be done.
If there ever was a non pvp area created it needs to be such low income that people dont want to be there, which would defeat the point I believe. There must not be 'safe' income.
Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Dethbringer1
NoWar4Me
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Dethbringer1 wrote:EVE is truely a PVE game NOT a PVP game! Why else do I have to kill 4,000 battleships to replace my tengu???? True PVP games do not make you work for a week to die once. Anyone who thinks this is a PVP based game is a moron!!! Yeah my character has 50m sp. Lets go gank some miners and noob mission runner corps.... This game is about PVE and Griefing Primarily... everything else is secondary.... As long as you have a game where someone with 6 years of sp can freely kill players with 1 month of sp.... you will have a hard time recruiting new players... Oh wait they can't freely kill. They have to pay 2m first... ROTFLMFAO. I make that in 20 secs! A noob takes a week to make that lol... Seriously. I know nothing about programming but let me throw out a few suggestions. How bout making a character with 1m sp immune to players with 50m sp.... how bout making a sp system like they had in Runescape. The farther you go into low sec the bigger the sp difference can be... There is no love for noobs in eve so I think this games days are truely numbered. You could kill 10 battleships to replace 20 ships, you know. 20 ships that can still kill stuff (first PvP kill of that person's). Screw Tengus. You are an idiot and a buffoon who does not know what PvP means or get that Eve is a sandbox. Stop talking. @OP: Pulling Eve's focus away from PvP would kill player interaction based on opposition, which is a core tenet of Eve. Doing that would pull it closer to being in direct competition with WoW, which it just cannot stand up to in polish and PvE. It may garner more newbies for a bit, but other games that are made for the niche it is invading would pass it, and it would lose all of its old players -- likely resulting in its death. Eve is fine where it is now.
What the hell would i want to fly a 20k frig when I can fly bs's and stategic cruisers.. anything you can kill with a frig is just plain boring as hell. |
Beef Knuckleback
Pawnstars INC The Fendahlian Collective
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.23 19:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Many combat-oriented PVPers seem to have a dim view of PVE activities and carebears in general. What combat pilots and PVE-focused players both seem to forget is that combat PVP and almost all forms of PVE hinge on the market - ships, modules, ammo, the ability to make isk from the sale of loot... the market is PVP in its purest form. The second you buy something or put up a sell order you're engaged in PVP. Whenever you buy a ship or re-arm - whenever you buy anything from anybody - it's PVP. There may be no killmails, there may be less wagging of e-peens, but even the most highsec-hugging ninja-hating carebear is in it up to his neck rather he knows it or not, rather he likes it or not.
The fact is if you want to profit in this game you're doing it at somebody's expense - the objective is to make the expense theirs. |
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