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ScheenK
Gallente StatiC Ex. Re-Fusion
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Posted - 2009.07.25 17:00:00 -
[1]
ASCN would still be alive, and everybody would want that, and the goons would be long gone, and everyone would love eve life discuss!
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Zancera
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.25 17:23:00 -
[2]
No.
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Emrod
Amarr Legion Du Lys GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.25 17:37:00 -
[3]
drink Kool-Aid dont give you natural vitamines.
COAD is for morons.......hey...wait a minute 0o !!! |
Goberth Ludwig
Caldari North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.07.25 17:46:00 -
[4]
ASCN pride muthatruckas
- Gob
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Cassius Hawkeye
Minmatar Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.07.25 17:57:00 -
[5]
Yo, I'm looking forward to the 'What if' special edition thread for Lotka Volterra.
Safe to say that's gonna be a surefire winner.
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OninoTimmo
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.25 18:21:00 -
[6]
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.25 20:04:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig ASCN pride muthatruckas
- Gob
---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Nai Ling
Amarr Middle Finger Technology
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Posted - 2009.07.25 20:29:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zancera No.
This. _______________________________________________
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Euriti
Gallente Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.07.25 21:10:00 -
[9]
EVE would be worse off without goons. ______________________________________________
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Scatim Helicon
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.25 21:35:00 -
[10]
[hurf blurf]
Actually counter-factual history is something that I'm quite interested by. You seem to be proposing an alternate timeline where ASCN offers a part of their territory to Goonswarm in exchange for assistance?
The timeline is going to have to diverge from our current internet spaceship reality before Goonswarm ally themselves with RA, I think. Once the Goons had shacked up with RA and begun the purge of the old Southern Coalition, especially considering how quickly -V- and KOS and the more minor players were removed from the map, it would have been extremely difficult to convince the Goonswarm leadership, let alone the rank and file to abandon their new friends in RA and TCF and the successes of the assault on Scalding Pass and Wicked Creek to move south into a new and unpredictable alliance with ASCN, who we had little contact with, and who were known to be on good terms with Lotka Volterra. That, and once the ASCN-BoB war started any move to court the Goons would just be seen as a desperate ploy to bolster their faltering defences. What could ASCN offer in those circumstances to tempt the goons away?
Plus, for fairly obvious reasons (which don't need to be discussed further) you'll need to handwave away the whole 'smoske incident', so in this timeline Remedial was away that week or Tetsujin has a different sig or something, either way it never happened.
So sometime, lets say August 2006 ASCN, realising its military shortcomings, approaches the infant Goonswarm and offer them a deal: 'move in with us, have a few stations in Feyth/Esoteria/Paragon Soul/, come shoot some Sanshas, it'll be fun, we'll be buds'. Goonswarm, recently spammed out of XZH and looking for new challenges, accepts. Would this deter BoB from turning on ASCN when CYVOK reveals his titan? Probably not, so that war commences on schedule. Does the presence of a few thousand goons tip the balance in ASCNs favour? Maybe, if the ASCN-Goonswarm alliance can organise themselves effectively enough (with ASCNs industrial power keeping Goons stocked up with ships to get exploded on a regular basis, and the influx of blood-happy goons a morale raiser for ASCNs PVPers).
Perhaps more importantly, what does having Goonswarm in the ASCN bloc (which puts them loosely on the same side as LV, although I don't know whether they would be blue) rather than at RA's side mean for the Southern Coalition vs RA war?
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Shardrael
Caldari Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.25 21:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig ASCN pride muthatruckas
- Gob
Signature locked. Please submit a petition to discuss the matter further. Navigator |
Rotnac
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.26 06:54:00 -
[12]
That would be really weird - possibly fighting against our Russian brosefs instead of with. I could kinda see ACSN eventually crumbling, even if an ACSN/Goon combo had beaten back BoB. Their industrial backbone certainly would have enabled them to stand back and point us at an enemy. I don't know if that would have lead us to the upper hand in the relationship, though, with us eventually subsuming them.
Have to admit, though, its interesting to think about.
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Scatim Helicon
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.26 11:57:00 -
[13]
yeah, the OP's proposed timeline makes the faulty assumption that, had Goonswarm been ASCN allies in late 2006, that ASCN would definitely still be alive today (and that Goonswarm would be dead, which is an odd assumption and he'll have to elaborate on the reasons for it).
The only way that ASCN survives is if they drive off the BoB invasion, we know that from how things turned out in our timeline, so for the sake of the OPs proposal we could assume that Goonswarm's appearance causes enough butterfly effects to make the difference. This could be as much to do with their removal from RA's side as anything - a key factor in the defeat of the old Southern Coalition was that Goonswarm could dominate the US timezone, so perhaps without the round-the-clock coverage RA is contained and LV get involved in Esoteria and Paragon Soul (I believe that LV were traditionally opposed to BoB until 2007, so it seems they would be more likely to assist ASCN in the south).
So, ASCN/Goonswarm/LV beat BoB's invasion back sometime around December 2006/January 2007, and the deep south is stabilised. What happens next?
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.26 12:32:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon So, ASCN/Goonswarm/LV beat BoB's invasion back sometime around December 2006/January 2007, and the deep south is stabilised. What happens next?
Cyvok decides that the north must go down (yet again), and while everyone's busy, LV decides to do their own thing, and GS attacks BoB. ASCN then pulls out from the north to help out GS and LV probably comes along aswell. T20 scandal breaks out (possibly?), and the war would've probably developed in a 3-way instead of the 2-way that existed in this timeline. Situation first develops in the forming of 4 powerblocks in EVE, one for each cardinal point perhaps, due to unconsolidated differences and emorage between the north and ASCN, ****storming between the east, GS and the north, and West is pretty much enemy to everyone. BoB manages to win over LV somehow, and they do an "about-face" on the south, together with AXE, wich is tired of AAA going arround and cause trouble in the south, ASCN is left dry, and GS somehow manages to escape to north. There, they and their new allies Pandemic Legion manage to pacify and bring the rest of the north into one banner, ally themselves with the east, and probably do the same thing they did in this timeline, altho with slighty diferent allies, and an 180¦ turnarround of the major operation theater. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Serenity Steele
Caldari Dynamic Data Distribution
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Posted - 2009.07.26 13:26:00 -
[15]
In that alternative reality, I imagine that the South would be as covered in Outposts as Stain resulting in a pirate-infested and unstable region when ASCN's leadership lost interest and collapsed. Potentially the alternative would be that Goonswarm took over domination of the south.
≡v≡ Strategic Maps in Eve-Online Store | eve-maps.com |
Izoleta
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.26 13:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Serenity Steele In that alternative reality, I imagine that the South would be as covered in Outposts as Stain.....
I take it you've never too far south?
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Eskalin
Minmatar Evolution
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Posted - 2009.07.26 13:44:00 -
[17]
I'm waiting for the what if my dog shat snow cones thread befoe I discuss anything1/10
If babies weren't to be eaten they wouldn't be hibachi sized
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Scatim Helicon
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.26 14:38:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Serenity Steele In that alternative reality, I imagine that the South would be as covered in Outposts as Stain resulting in a pirate-infested and unstable region when ASCN's leadership lost interest and collapsed. Potentially the alternative would be that Goonswarm took over domination of the south.
Supposedly ASCN had something like 17 outpost eggs ready for deployment when the constellation sovereignty mechanics came in so they could immediately Sov4 everything. As it is ROL have taken over where ASCN left off so all the outposts that have been dropped in Feyth recently might have been there 2 years earlier (with probably similar levels of deployment in Esoteria and perhaps Paragon Soul).
On the other hand, there have been all sorts of silly ASCN rumours about secret titans and things so perhaps the '17 eggs on standby' story is just one of those?
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Scatim Helicon
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.26 15:03:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Grimpak T20 scandal breaks out
You know, having the T20 scandal emerge in the immediate aftermath of a BoB defeat in Paragon Soul is an interesting what-if. BoB in early 2007 were seen as this massive, unstoppable juggernaut, and that is something that fed into much of the outrage players felt over the incident ("no wonder they win all the time, they have CCP devs helping them!").
With a recently-defeated BoB instead of Omnipotence Itself, is there the same backlash against them, or since BoB aren't unstoppable after all is the outrage directed more against CCP and T20 rather than BoB? Or conversely, do more alliances scent blood in the water in the wake of the T20 revelations and decide to finish BoB off properly?
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Raneru
Gallente Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2009.07.26 16:05:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig ASCN pride muthatruckas
- Gob
o7
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.26 16:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Originally by: Grimpak T20 scandal breaks out
You know, having the T20 scandal emerge in the immediate aftermath of a BoB defeat in Paragon Soul is an interesting what-if. BoB in early 2007 were seen as this massive, unstoppable juggernaut, and that is something that fed into much of the outrage players felt over the incident ("no wonder they win all the time, they have CCP devs helping them!").
With a recently-defeated BoB instead of Omnipotence Itself, is there the same backlash against them, or since BoB aren't unstoppable after all is the outrage directed more against CCP and T20 rather than BoB? Or conversely, do more alliances scent blood in the water in the wake of the T20 revelations and decide to finish BoB off properly?
my guess is as good as yours, considering the big "what if" this thread is, although I believe more in the "final nail in the coffin" scenario. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Machine Delta
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.26 17:08:00 -
[22]
I think we would have seen the AAA / BoB napfest occur a lot sooner given this alternate history.
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Pubsey
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.26 17:51:00 -
[23]
Most of CAOD would still be cringing like whipped curs every time a BoB member ****ted in their threads or licking arse for the honour of serving them.
~~~goons set you free~~~
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Abortion Engine
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.26 19:13:00 -
[24]
In this "what if" scenario, if we were aligned with LV I doubt the T20 scandal would have really surfaced. It all kind of snowballed from when a certain someone hired another certain someone to hack a certain nascent alliances forum.
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Larsonist
Amarr Darkwave Technologies Kahora Catori
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Posted - 2009.07.26 19:16:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Larsonist on 26/07/2009 19:16:34 Hi mom! Larsonist > i still enjoyed the pew pew though, all the pos sh!t ive been doing lately had me feeling like smeagle without his precious. |
Jon Lucien
Minmatar Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.07.27 03:47:00 -
[26]
In this proposed alternate timeline, the addition of several thousand goons to the battles raging in PS would have increased lag in every single engagement. As we know, much of the reason BoB won many of those fights was because the connection and ping mechanics at the time favored european players. Goonswarm, being a primarily USTZ based alliance, would not have contributed a major advantage to ASCN, resulting in BoB padding their killboards with several thousand rifters in addition to the battleships from ASCN.
Ultimately Cyvok's titan would have been killed because a goon tagged it, rather than a spy. This goon would have been called a pubbie and a noob, which would have then outraged the rest of goonswarm. ASCN would evict GS from their space, on account of GS spending all their time trolling each other rather than fighting. GS would have then returned to empire for a brief time to engage in jihad warfare against hisec hulks and drink chinese tears.
LV would continue their fight with RA and TCF, pushing them back to the core of insmother until LV's ceo was exposed as a developer and the alliance crumbled. Goons would realign with TCF and RA, reforming RSF. Meanwhile PL would have realized much sooner that jewgold brings more tears than being npc-space griefers, causing them to invade fountain which would then have aligned the proposed timeline with the current one.
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Ninkasi Stone
Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.27 04:20:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Ninkasi Stone on 27/07/2009 04:23:08 Having been a member of ASCN when the BoB fight went down and a member of the Goons when we gave BoB/Kenny the kicking to the curb that it richly deserved I think I can add some insight. 1) ASCN lacked the internal cohesion to stand against BoB. Joining with the Goons, who were nacient at the time, would have done little to fix this.
2) The ASCN/BoB war was prior to the T20 and other such well documented revelations and as a result BoB was well nigh unbeatable by any normal organization playing within the rules.
3) The Goons definately benifitted from picking up strong, internally-cohesive, corporations that were looking for a new home once ASCN broke apart.
EVEs pilots fly free from BoB thanks to NC/Goons/the best part of the Red Army. Delve is for Goons |
Kanoubi
Amarr Enseki
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Posted - 2009.07.27 08:35:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig ASCN pride muthatruckas
- Gob
!LONG LIVE TEH KING !
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The Mittani
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.07.27 13:11:00 -
[29]
ascns culture was too honorpubbie to even consider allying with goonswarm; the reason RA/GS worked is that both were pariah entities at the time. ra for logoff traps and 'dishonor', gs for making fun of the dead and being goons
also at the leadership level we all spat on cyvok for his mewling so i don't think that would have worked, you would have had me and remedial working hand in glove with cyvok and samuraijack and virtuozzo? yick
Sins of a Solar Spymaster: my ~fair and balanced~ column TheMittani @ Twitter
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Xorth Adimus
Caldari The Perfect Storm Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.07.27 13:27:00 -
[30]
What If Instead Of ASCN Dieing 3 years ago, Goons took their place
ASCN died 3 years ago because the real leadership lost interest and left.
Various others have now taken their place.
The problem with Eve is it is just a game, taking over constellations and holding them for months or years is serious work, sounds like a dull job to me. Holding together a bunch of guys and making them work, when they can log out or do something more fun like shooting people, doesnt sound like a game to me.
Awaiting next overbloated dramabombfailscade.
Until CCP nerfs sov, leadership or logging out this will keep happening
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