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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
LordSwift
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.27 13:28:00 -
[1]
I belive i made a post that got a lot of mixed remarks about a previous post about a prison is going to have a high class restaurant for inmates to train etc.
Anyway i think this one is even worse. Luxery Prison
A Prison should be feared not a place to live the good life. Join the brown Coats today!!! |
xBLACKNOVAx
Black Nova Investments
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Posted - 2009.07.27 13:34:00 -
[2]
I haven't been able to go on holiday this year so thanks for the link. Now to work out if it should be just a random killing or something real special.
P.S. Anyone know if HMP Frankland has Sky Movies?
Originally by: OhYeah Chribba's tears cure cancer. Too bad he has never cried.
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LordSwift
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.27 14:00:00 -
[3]
Yeah no wonder crime is on the up Join the brown Coats today!!! |
TrustThePilot
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.27 14:04:00 -
[4]
Reminds me of that story a year or so ago where a bunch of repeat offenders got sent to Borneo on an adventure holiday (supposedly under the story that it was to teach them responsibility or something) off the taxpayers back. To err is human, to forgive is against corporation policy. |
Al Anders
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Posted - 2009.07.27 14:04:00 -
[5]
i'm going to move to England to do something really horrible Any suggestions?
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LordSwift
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.07.27 14:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Al Anders i'm going to move to England to do something really horrible Any suggestions?
Stabby stabby with a knife sounds like your best bet Join the brown Coats today!!! |
Al Anders
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Posted - 2009.07.27 14:33:00 -
[7]
Too classical. What about sothing modern? Like dropping a high voltage cable in water near sandy beach filled with people.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.27 14:35:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Whitehound on 27/07/2009 14:36:37 Think of a teenager prison not only as a prison, but as a rehabilitation centre or foster home, too. Then it starts making sense. It is the press that wants you to believe that these kids have a life like in paradise when really they have started their lives with a capital crime and have not yet a real idea of what they have done and yet are expected to take full responsibility for it. To imprison and isolate them while they still need to develop social skills will not make them better people. You want to release them at some point.
And I am sure that the baddies do not get to play in this prison. --
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Al Anders
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Posted - 2009.07.27 14:39:00 -
[9]
I thnk US prisones may help to make a panama channel a bid wider. P.S.: Possibly america (north and south) has enought prisoners to do almost any terraformind procedure. Let's call it advanced biomechanical technology
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.07.27 14:41:00 -
[10]
Quote: The Ministry of Justice said 39 prisoners had absconded from the jail between January 2007 and March this year.
Obviously someone didn't like it there
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Sobach
Gallente Fourth Circle
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Posted - 2009.07.27 17:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 27/07/2009 14:36:37 Think of a teenager prison not only as a prison, but as a rehabilitation centre or foster home, too. Then it starts making sense. It is the press that wants you to believe that these kids have a life like in paradise when really they have started their lives with a capital crime and have not yet a real idea of what they have done and yet are expected to take full responsibility for it. To imprison and isolate them while they still need to develop social skills will not make them better people. You want to release them at some point.
And I am sure that the baddies do not get to play in this prison.
If what the worker in the article said was true, then obviously the whole rehab thing isn't working out too well if most came back around for more.
I don't know about you, but I damn well knew killing and ****s are wrong before I was even a teenager. This isn't Somalia buddy, it's the UK for crying out loud. Whatever the circumstances, those people made a choice, and they damn well should take responsibility for it. Teens today aren't as dumb as you think, you give them far too little credit.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.27 18:36:00 -
[12]
Originally by: LordSwift I belive i made a post that got a lot of mixed remarks about a previous post about a prison is going to have a high class restaurant for inmates to train etc.
Anyway i think this one is even worse. Luxery Prison
A Prison should be feared not a place to live the good life.
You where the one who had problems with prisoners learning something so that after their time in jail they can get a job?
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ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.27 18:43:00 -
[13]
@ OP and other ppl that dont get this concept
you/us/society/majority made some rules and ppl who break them go to prison and this ppl only lose freedom, you know killing, raping, burning some alive or eat other person are ok in some far far away points of this planet and guess what they dont pay taxes for jails
Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
EvE FTW |
THE L0CK
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Posted - 2009.07.27 18:50:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Furb Killer
You where the one who had problems with prisoners learning something so that after their time in jail they can get a job?
No one ever was able to explain to me why even prisoners who got a GED or specialization in prison ended up being repeat offenders.
Also I've got a problem solver for you: Say you are a manager or someone who runs a company and you need to hire some extra help. You've got 2 applicants with equal qualifications and look very promising, but on the applications you notice one has a clean criminal record and one noted that he has been charged for multiple burglaries/thefts. Who would you choose?
Originally by: Whitehound
If I think, but I do not.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.27 19:13:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Whitehound on 27/07/2009 19:17:42
Originally by: THE L0CK No one ever was able to explain to me why even prisoners who got a GED or specialization in prison ended up being repeat offenders.
Free will, hope, faith and humans are not reprogrammable machines.
Quote: Who would you choose?
I would not choose in this situation. I would count the criminal past as an experience the other one does not posses and add it to his experience, but would also try to find something in the other guy to give him a chance, too. If the guy without the criminal record has a hobby that says something about him as a person (a team player, an organizer, whatever), then I would probably choose the one without the criminal record. I would definitely try not to get into a situation where I have to make this kind of choice. If I then give the guy with the criminal record the job, then I would not give him a position where he could do it again either - for his and my own sake. --
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THE L0CK
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Posted - 2009.07.27 19:29:00 -
[16]
Edited by: THE L0CK on 27/07/2009 19:28:58
Originally by: Whitehound
I would not choose in this situation.
You are a manager or business owner, you have to make these decisions as each decision means success or failure for your company.
Originally by: Whitehound I would count the criminal past as an experience the other one does not have and add it to his experience, but would also try to find something in the other guy to give him a chance, too. If the guy without the criminal record than has a hobby that says something about him as a person (a team player, an organizer, whatever), then I would probably choose the one without the criminal record.
Fair enough.....if I'm reading that right. The one with the non criminal record may not be as much of a team player while the one with the criminal record may of been part of a group working jobs which makes him an excellent team player if they were successful multiple times.
Originally by: Whitehound I would definitely try not get into a situation where I have to make this kind of choice.
As I stated as a manager or business owner you would have to make these kinds of decisions and you may have to make them often. From the sounds of it though I suspect you'd end up being one of those managers I see who look they are 70 when they are only 40 due to stress after working in that position for so long.
Originally by: Whitehound If I then give the guy with the criminal record of theft the job, then I would not give him a position where he could do it again either - for his and my own sake.
Aside from locking everything down I don't really see how you could prevent it. And in this case how would you work out the trust factor between him and you?
That has me thinking on another problem solver. Say the criminal is actually better qualified than the non criminal across the board but the position requires them to have a set of keys to the place of business like if they were going to open the shop or whatever and they would be there alone for the first several hours of the day?
Originally by: Whitehound
If I think, but I do not.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.27 20:30:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Whitehound on 27/07/2009 20:31:56
Originally by: THE L0CK You are a manager or business owner, you have to make these decisions as each decision means success or failure for your company.
You are implying that I have no control over the situation. If this would really be the case then I would be a very bad manager and I would quit the job. I would not allow any of my subordinates to drop this onto my table, and any boss who does that to me can find himself a new marionette, and because I do not want to end with an heart attack.
Quote: Aside from locking everything down I don't really see how you could prevent it. And in this case how would you work out the trust factor between him and you?
You are implying that I am paranoid. You cannot prevent it, but you can make the guy's life easier by keeping him away from what may tempt him, and, in case he does steal again do I not want to be the manager who has given him the perfect position to do so. This is why I say "for the sake of both of us".
Quote: Say the criminal is actually better qualified than the non criminal across the board but the position requires them to have a set of keys to the place of business like if they were going to open the shop or whatever and they would be there alone for the first several hours of the day?
They say theft is created by opportunity. I would not want to give the guy this kind of responsibility. Instead, I expect him to say no to the offer and therefore would not even offer it to him. If he is a man then he knows what he has done and that he cannot expect to be given this kind of responsibility with a criminal record of theft. If he is a smart man then he would probably feel offended if I did put this into his hands. Some really weird bosses might probably do this only to test the guy and watch him with a hidden video camera. I would make his criminal record in such a case a disadvantage for him and tell it to his face.
Why would anyone want to hire a cashier with a record of theft for example? Or a medical doctor who has mistreated a patient? The case you have created here sounds more like a conflict in the guys skill sets with his criminal record. Its better to learn a new job. --
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Riki Halcyon
Caldari Sativa Imports Ltd.
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Posted - 2009.07.27 20:35:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 27/07/2009 14:36:37 Think of a teenager prison not only as a prison, but as a rehabilitation centre or foster home, too. Then it starts making sense. It is the press that wants you to believe that these kids have a life like in paradise when really they have started their lives with a capital crime and have not yet a real idea of what they have done and yet are expected to take full responsibility for it. To imprison and isolate them while they still need to develop social skills will not make them better people. You want to release them at some point.
And I am sure that the baddies do not get to play in this prison.
I completely agree with you Whitehuond. However, having PlayStations in their cells is not going to help them develop social skills...I think our prison systems in the US have it completely wrong though, as far as their lack of rehabilitation.
The Lock, you are asking some good questions, and hard ones to answer....I'm glad I'm not a business owner, because I would want to be considerate of a "criminal's" past, but at the same time I don't think I could trust someone who has been prosecuted of burglary with the keys to my shop. That's tough, because I don't want to be judging people based on their run ins with "the man" but at the same time....idk.
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THE L0CK
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Posted - 2009.07.27 20:55:00 -
[19]
Edited by: THE L0CK on 27/07/2009 20:58:56
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: THE L0CK You are a manager or business owner, you have to make these decisions as each decision means success or failure for your company.
You are implying that I have no control over the situation. If this would really be the case then I would be a very bad manager and I would quit the job. I would not allow any of my subordinates to drop this onto my table, and any boss who does that to me can find himself a new marionette, and because I do not want to end with an heart attack.
I am implying the opposite. As a business owner I would hope for the sake of the business that you are in full control and that includes who you do and don't hire. If you are not in control of that then who is?
Originally by: Whitehound You are implying that I am paranoid. You cannot prevent it, but you can make the guy's life easier by keeping him away from what may tempt him, and, in case he does steal again do I not want to be the manager who has given him the perfect position to do so. This is why I say "for the sake of both of us".
Careful would be a better word. But at what point would you think you being careful in preventing opportunities turn into him feeling untrusted? That is my question that I am asking.
Originally by: Whitehound They say theft is created by opportunity. I would not want to give the guy this kind of responsibility. Instead, I expect him to say no to the offer and therefore would not even offer it to him.
Then like many others you have denied him an opportunity at an honest life. And when times get desperate enough he may or would resort to theft once again. Now we understand why these inmates end up being repeat offenders.
Quote: If he is a man then he knows what he has done and that he cannot expect to be given this kind of responsibility with a criminal record of theft.
Then I must ask what is the point of the rehabilitation if the criminal in question can only expect a let down or to not even be able to use what he has learned. It sounds to me like we are the ones setting them up to fail again.
Quote: If he is a smart man then he would probably feel offended if I did put this into his hands.
I don't know, I think I would feel like I jumped some major hurdles and beat the odds that were stacked against me.
Quote: The case you have created here sounds more like a conflict in the guys skill sets with his criminal record. Its better to learn a new job.
Isn't that what the rehabilitation process is supposed to do? The issue that I presented was that a man was put in jail for Burglary and Theft. The sentence that they may have given him could be enough time to take some of the courses they have thus giving him a valuable set of skills that just happen to fit what you are looking for as a manager. Unfortunately as a manager you feel that he shouldn't be in your business leaving him with a new set of skills with no means to use them and that he should learn something else entirely but without money or the means now he can't do much. To support himself the man must now go back to doing what he did best before.
Originally by: Whitehound
If I think, but I do not.
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Xrak
Black Nova Corp
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Posted - 2009.07.27 20:57:00 -
[20]
Hello there, I see you have posted a link to the Mail online.
Would you like to
a) blame those evil asylum seekers? b) blame those liberal hippes? c) blame those nefarious gays? d) read another column on Princess Di?
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.27 21:39:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Whitehound on 27/07/2009 21:41:08
Originally by: THE L0CK But at what point would you think you being careful in preventing opportunities turn into him feeling untrusted? That is my question that I am asking.
This depends entirely on the circumstances I guess.
Quote: Then like many others you have denied him an opportunity at an honest life. And when times get desperate enough he may or would resort to theft once again. Now we understand why these inmates end up being repeat offenders.
No. He still can have an honest life. Ask the cashier, who stole money in his past, why one should trust him now and why he did not choose to learn a new job? Did he not know after he left prison that he could not simply go back to his old life, but needs to make some adjustments? Even people who did not commit a crime can fail at a job and should better do something else. A person in a wheel chair knows that there is little chance for becoming a test pilot. A race driver who never won a single race but only crashes the cars is not someone who you would trust to win a race either. Some people had their chance but could not hold on to it for whatever reason. Rehabilitation then does not mean to give them the same chance again and again until they get it right. You then give the chance to someone else before you give it to the same person again. --
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THE L0CK
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Posted - 2009.07.27 21:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Whitehound No. He still can have an honest life. Ask the cashier, who stole money in his past, why one should trust him now and why he did not choose to learn a new job? Did he not know after he left prison that he could not simply go back to his old life, but needs to make some adjustments? Even people who did not commit a crime can fail at a job and should better do something else. A person in a wheel chair knows that there is little chance for becoming a test pilot. A race driver who never won a single race but only crashes the cars is not someone who you would trust to win a race either. Some people had their chance but could not hold on to it for whatever reason. Rehabilitation then does not mean to give them the same chance again and again until they get it right. You then give the chance to someone else before you give it to the same person again.
That is not the question I asked.
The situation that I asked was if a man went to prison for committing a crime involving theft or such similar and during his incarceration he learns skills that suits what you as a business owner are looking for in a potential employee if you would hire him.
The first scenario involved him and another being equal in qualifications but one had the crime and one didn't in which case you put in a maybe but was leaning more to the non offender.
The second involved him actually being better qualified but it would require you as the manager to trust him with the keys in which you outright said no.
What I was detailing was that his old life was a life of crime so of course he was going to have to change it/not go back to it after prison, but instead he learns a set of skills that could change his life around. What I wanted to point out is how you would react to it and it was actually just how I expected. Everyone is up for rehabilitating a criminal until it comes face to face with them. As for the last part of your paragraph I have no clue what you are going on about.
Originally by: Whitehound
If I think, but I do not.
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Captain Hudson
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.07.27 22:19:00 -
[23]
daily mail. lol
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.27 22:21:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Whitehound on 27/07/2009 22:23:12
Originally by: THE L0CK That is not the question I asked.
I did answer your question. Perhaps ask better questions?
Quote: The second involved him actually being better qualified but it would require you as the manager to trust him with the keys in which you outright said no.
No, you are wrong. You want to see his criminal past seperately from his qualifications. For me does a qualification only show a person's experience and so does a criminal record. Asking me to only hire him because of one set of experience but not the other would not be fair. You said so yourself that it is fair to see it as such. Why not now? --
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THE L0CK
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Posted - 2009.07.27 22:38:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 27/07/2009 22:23:12
Originally by: THE L0CK That is not the question I asked.
I did answer your question. Perhaps ask better questions?
I know you did and that's what I've stated. I don't understand why you are being so defensive.
Originally by: Whitehound
Quote: The second involved him actually being better qualified but it would require you as the manager to trust him with the keys in which you outright said no.
No, you are wrong. You want to see his criminal past seperately from his qualifications. For me does a qualification only show a person's experience and so does a criminal record. Asking me to only hire him because of one set of experience but not the other would not be fair. You said so yourself that it is fair to see it as such. Why not now?
I don't understand what you are trying to say here. The second scenario that I asked was that if the criminal was better qualified than anyone else looking at the position but the position would require him to need a set of keys to the business I wanted to know if you would hire him and you said no which is expected.
The scenario I portrayed had you look at both types of qualifications. The criminal is better suited for the position because of the training he received but as stated, he is a criminal known to steal and giving him keys would be a great risk. Should I or shouldn't I hire? If No was not the answer you wanted then please reread the question carefully and give me another answer.
Personally that was the answer I was expecting and it is a common occurrence called N.I.M.B.Y.
Originally by: Whitehound
If I think, but I do not.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.27 22:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: THE L0CK I don't understand what you are trying to say here. The second scenario that I asked was that if the criminal was better qualified than anyone else looking at the position but the position would require him to need a set of keys to the business I wanted to know if you would hire him and you said no which is expected.
How can he be better qualified when he previously failed at this position?
It does not matter how someone failed. An accountant for example can fail at his job, because he is just very bad with maths, and he can fail because he could not withstand the temptation to fake numbers.
If he then leaves jail and has the qualification for being an accountant and is good with maths, but has a record for stealing while being an accountant, too, then the sum of both is worth nothing.
You need to give a better example. --
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Sazkyen
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Posted - 2009.07.27 23:04:00 -
[27]
Well, I know that many people commit lesser crimes to get into prison for the winter when they would freeze on the streets. Yeah, unfortunate. This prison looks like a cool place to spend some quality, and I mean quality, time
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THE L0CK
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Posted - 2009.07.27 23:06:00 -
[28]
Edited by: THE L0CK on 27/07/2009 23:06:45
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: THE L0CK I don't understand what you are trying to say here. The second scenario that I asked was that if the criminal was better qualified than anyone else looking at the position but the position would require him to need a set of keys to the business I wanted to know if you would hire him and you said no which is expected.
How can he be better qualified when he previously failed at this position?
Read the question again please.
Edit: in the mean time would anyone else care to answer the 2 scenario's?
Originally by: Whitehound
If I think, but I do not.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.27 23:14:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Whitehound on 27/07/2009 23:17:06
Originally by: THE L0CK Read the question again please.
I did and I do not think that you are asking a fair question.
It is simply not possible for him to be better qualified and to give me a problem at the same time.
Either he is better qualified and that means there is no problem, or he is not better qualified and because there is a problem.
If both candidates give me a problem then I am not going to hire any of them. --
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THE L0CK
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Posted - 2009.07.27 23:26:00 -
[30]
Edited by: THE L0CK on 27/07/2009 23:27:47
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: THE L0CK Read the question again please.
I did and I do not think that you are asking a fair question.
It is simply not possible for him to be better qualified and to give me a problem at the same time.
Either he is better qualified and that means there is no problem, or he is not better qualified and because there is a problem.
You seem to making it more difficult for yourself than the question is and/or having major translation problems.
This will be the last time I explain this because I honestly am starting to think you are just trolling me again like last time (I haven't forgotten).
Scenario 2:
Let's say you own a small shop that repairs and sells computers and your business is doing well enough that you can afford to hire someone to work part or full time giving you more free time in life.
Now before you are 2 applications.
The first application is your standard Joe. No criminal record but on the same side no real schooling/training for what you are looking for.
Applicant 2 has just been paroled from prison. According to his application he went to prison for several years for burglary or theft, BUT, while he was there he took several computer technology courses that the prison offers making him more knowledgeable and better qualified for your little business.
Now since you want the applicant to open the store for you this would require giving that person a set of keys to the store. Which would you end up choosing and why?
This is Scenario 2. Last time you said no to the criminal. Read the question, ponder it, and detail your answer clearly.
Originally by: Whitehound
If I think, but I do not.
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