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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.07.29 21:45:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 29/07/2009 21:45:27
Originally by: Whitehound
No, I choose or over nor in this particular case. In an educated conversation would it be wrong, however.
"it would"
Also, if it's wrong, it's wrong. You can write it incorrectly on purpose if you want, but that doesn't change it's status as wrong.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.29 22:27:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Qui Shon Also, if it's wrong, it's wrong. You can write it incorrectly on purpose if you want, but that doesn't change it's status as wrong.
Grammar serves us, but we do not serve grammar. If I choose to write something wrong, then I am obviously not doing it to serve grammar but a different purpose. It may not get me applause from a grammar teacher, but if it gets you thinking then it is a superior win. --
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THE L0CK
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Posted - 2009.07.29 22:36:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Qui Shon Also, if it's wrong, it's wrong. You can write it incorrectly on purpose if you want, but that doesn't change it's status as wrong.
Grammar serves us, but we do not serve grammar. If I choose to write something wrong, then I am obviously not doing it to serve grammar but a different purpose. It may not get me applause from a grammar teacher, but if it gets you thinking then it is a superior win.
Gets me thinking that I need a Whitehound to English translation script. I guess you win?????
Originally by: Whitehound
If I think, but I do not.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.07.29 22:56:00 -
[94]
I have yet to see how giving prisoners better food, better shelter and better entertainment than someone in the army is a good idea. Prison is punishment not a holiday camp.
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nahtoh
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.07.29 22:59:00 -
[95]
Originally by: baltec1 I have yet to see how giving prisoners better food, better shelter and better entertainment than someone in the army is a good idea. Prison is punishment not a holiday camp.
Its not hard to beat Army food TBH ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:00:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Whitehound on 29/07/2009 23:05:07
Originally by: THE L0CK Gets me thinking that I need a Whitehound to English translation script.
You need more than that. You would need to stop that train of thought of yours from spinning around in circles. Read a book or watch a movie! --
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Munchees
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:10:00 -
[97]
We should just let criminals run around free because it's not their fault they were sent to jail. It's the cops fault.
Originally by: Mr Reeth
Why is it every time I read somebody call all Americans stupid I hear it in a British accent and think of this |
THE L0CK
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:21:00 -
[98]
Originally by: baltec1 I have yet to see how giving prisoners better food, better shelter and better entertainment than someone in the army is a good idea. Prison is punishment not a holiday camp.
Way back in the older days I've been told by many that the court used to give a person the option of going to jail or going into the military and for the life of me I can't figure out why they stopped this.
Originally by: Whitehound
If I think, but I do not.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:24:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Whitehound on 29/07/2009 23:26:13
Originally by: Munchees We should just let criminals run around free because it's not their fault they were sent to jail. It's the cops fault.
I have a better idea! We watch them and if they behave well then we reduce their sentence!
How crazy would this be? --
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:26:00 -
[100]
Originally by: nahtoh
Originally by: baltec1 I have yet to see how giving prisoners better food, better shelter and better entertainment than someone in the army is a good idea. Prison is punishment not a holiday camp.
Its not hard to beat Army food TBH
Hey, we used to get pea soup and pancakes on thursdays when at the base. Yum yum. And the curry chicken field dinner thingy was pretty good too. It's not, say, veal with a nice neuf de Pape, but hey, simple things remain throroughly enjoyable and shouldn't be dismissed easily.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:28:00 -
[101]
Originally by: THE L0CK
Originally by: baltec1 I have yet to see how giving prisoners better food, better shelter and better entertainment than someone in the army is a good idea. Prison is punishment not a holiday camp.
Way back in the older days I've been told by many that the court used to give a person the option of going to jail or going into the military and for the life of me I can't figure out why they stopped this.
Did you see bad lads army? That show proved without a doubt that dumping them into the army is the best way to change them.
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Munchees
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:33:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Whitehound
I have a better idea! We watch them and if they behave well then we reduce their sentence!
How crazy would this be?
Because nobody could EVER act good while in jail, and then once free go back to their criminal behavior. The US doesn't want these good people going free or they'd be looking for jobs too.
Originally by: Mr Reeth
Why is it every time I read somebody call all Americans stupid I hear it in a British accent and think of this |
Krystal Vernet
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:34:00 -
[103]
Originally by: THE L0CK
Originally by: baltec1 I have yet to see how giving prisoners better food, better shelter and better entertainment than someone in the army is a good idea. Prison is punishment not a holiday camp.
Way back in the older days I've been told by many that the court used to give a person the option of going to jail or going into the military and for the life of me I can't figure out why they stopped this.
They should bring that back.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.07.29 23:45:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 29/07/2009 23:53:19
Yeah, let's be tough on prisoners, that'll reduce crime, great strategy. Just look at good ol US of A, **** yeah! Toughest sentencing of all the western countries, and also the highest incarceration rates, *by far*. Not to mention the only one still using capital punishment (or has Britain reverted to it's medieval ways also?).
But let's forget USA also have the highest rates of violent crime out of western nations, *by far*. That might make us take a deeper look at whether "tough on crime" policies work, and we wouldn't want that, since it feels *so good* to wish bad things to bad people.
EDIT: The army bit, sure, why not. A bit of structure and order might do hooligans some good. Then again, are you sure you want to give nasty people military training? You don't think that will just create more potent gangbangers in the long run?
Don't professional armies turn down people with a record?
And wasn't "prisoner recruitment" traditionally used to create high risk cannon fodder units? In these piddly wars the west is fighting these days, we don't use those much anymore, at least not unless they're allies from some 3rd world country nobody really cares about.
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nahtoh
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.07.30 00:28:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 29/07/2009 23:53:19
EDIT: The army bit, sure, why not. A bit of structure and order might do hooligans some good. Then again, are you sure you want to give nasty people military training? You don't think that will just create more potent gangbangers in the long run?
Don't professional armies turn down people with a record?
And wasn't "prisoner recruitment" traditionally used to create high risk cannon fodder units? In these piddly wars the west is fighting these days, we don't use those much anymore, at least not unless they're allies from some 3rd world country nobody really cares about.
Yeah I see what your saying about that Qui, perhaps some kind of civil corps? Doing good deeds or hell some kind of reconstruction work in 3rd world countrys or disater relief? ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Munchees
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.30 00:38:00 -
[106]
Originally by: nahtoh
Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 29/07/2009 23:53:19
EDIT: The army bit, sure, why not. A bit of structure and order might do hooligans some good. Then again, are you sure you want to give nasty people military training? You don't think that will just create more potent gangbangers in the long run?
Don't professional armies turn down people with a record?
And wasn't "prisoner recruitment" traditionally used to create high risk cannon fodder units? In these piddly wars the west is fighting these days, we don't use those much anymore, at least not unless they're allies from some 3rd world country nobody really cares about.
Yeah I see what your saying about that Qui, perhaps some kind of civil corps? Doing good deeds or hell some kind of reconstruction work in 3rd world countrys or disater relief?
Just because you force somebody to do a good deed doesn't make them a good person, nor will it make them a good person.
You people should read (or for those with low attention spans, watch) A Clockwork Orange. He fakes good behavior in order to get into a program that will let him out of jail. Although what happens to him messes up his brain, that gets fixed and he goes back to being a bad person (although at the end of the book he begins to think it might be time to stop his criminal behavior, but only because it's starting to bore him).
Originally by: Mr Reeth
Why is it every time I read somebody call all Americans stupid I hear it in a British accent and think of this |
JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.07.30 00:46:00 -
[107]
Originally by: THE L0CK Edited by: THE L0CK on 27/07/2009 23:27:47
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: THE L0CK Read the question again please.
I did and I do not think that you are asking a fair question.
It is simply not possible for him to be better qualified and to give me a problem at the same time.
Either he is better qualified and that means there is no problem, or he is not better qualified and because there is a problem.
You seem to making it more difficult for yourself than the question is and/or having major translation problems.
This will be the last time I explain this because I honestly am starting to think you are just trolling me again like last time (I haven't forgotten).
Scenario 2:
Let's say you own a small shop that repairs and sells computers and your business is doing well enough that you can afford to hire someone to work part or full time giving you more free time in life.
Now before you are 2 applications.
The first application is your standard Joe. No criminal record but on the same side no real schooling/training for what you are looking for.
Applicant 2 has just been paroled from prison. According to his application he went to prison for several years for burglary or theft, BUT, while he was there he took several computer technology courses that the prison offers making him more knowledgeable and better qualified for your little business.
Now since you want the applicant to open the store for you this would require giving that person a set of keys to the store. Which would you end up choosing and why?
This is Scenario 2. Last time you said no to the criminal. Read the question, ponder it, and detail your answer clearly.
My answer is that I would hire the man who went to prison. While I think I would be understandably..cautious about hiring him due to his past experiences, I would see his taking computer classes as trying to reform himself so he could live a good life the legitimate way. Hiring someone who knows NOTHING or next to nothing about how your business runs or the services/goods it provides could prove to be much more disastrous than hiring the ex-con in the first place.
Besides, electronics stores frequently purvey expensive wares in addition to the repair service- I would imagine that they keep very meticulous records on work done, as well as receipts, inventories, employee files and statistics, and data pertaining to the amount of business done in a cycle.
While it may not be possible to monitor the newly-hired excon employee all the time, the real dilemma is how much trust you should put in him. Giving an employee the keys to the store, or the keys to the storage room, or keys to the register, is very serious. Making him feel untrustworthy might push him to steal from you, fudge records, etc. Human decisionmaking processes and rationality become very interesting when faced with opportunities..
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nahtoh
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.07.30 00:57:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Munchees
Originally by: nahtoh
Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 29/07/2009 23:53:19
EDIT: The army bit, sure, why not. A bit of structure and order might do hooligans some good. Then again, are you sure you want to give nasty people military training? You don't think that will just create more potent gangbangers in the long run?
Don't professional armies turn down people with a record?
And wasn't "prisoner recruitment" traditionally used to create high risk cannon fodder units? In these piddly wars the west is fighting these days, we don't use those much anymore, at least not unless they're allies from some 3rd world country nobody really cares about.
Yeah I see what your saying about that Qui, perhaps some kind of civil corps? Doing good deeds or hell some kind of reconstruction work in 3rd world countrys or disater relief?
Just because you force somebody to do a good deed doesn't make them a good person, nor will it make them a good person.
You people should read (or for those with low attention spans, watch) A Clockwork Orange. He fakes good behavior in order to get into a program that will let him out of jail. Although what happens to him messes up his brain, that gets fixed and he goes back to being a bad person (although at the end of the book he begins to think it might be time to stop his criminal behavior, but only because it's starting to bore him).
No it would not, but it would also get some good out of them and may actualy get them thinking about others in way that does not revolve around screwing them over. Might even instill a sense of pride and self worth.
But yeah why try and do anything they might after all wear a boilersuit a bowler hat and and do nasty things... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Munchees
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.30 01:00:00 -
[109]
Originally by: nahtoh
No it would not, but it would also get some good out of them and may actualy get them thinking about others in way that does not revolve around screwing them over. Might even instill a sense of pride and self worth.
But yeah why try and do anything they might after all wear a boilersuit a bowler hat and and do nasty things...
True, but if they're raised in an environment that teaches them that stealing and killing people because they are from a different part of the neighborhood is okay, then it will be much harder for them to learn any lesson at all
Originally by: Mr Reeth
Why is it every time I read somebody call all Americans stupid I hear it in a British accent and think of this |
JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.07.30 01:00:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Jacob Mei
Originally by: Awesome Possum Too many people go the strict positive reinforcement, or strict negative reinforcement route.
And then theirs the third route where the parents dont care one way or another and leave their kids up to their own devices. In my opinion those are the worst.
I disagree a bit with your last sentence. If one instills ideas of morals and values in their children at a young age, you'd be surprised how kisd left to their own devices turn out.
Take me, for example.
My mother and father were never married, and ended up splitting up when I was about a year old, give or take a few months. This resulted in my mother suddenly becoming a single parent (receiving child support ofc) and having to raise me pretty much by herself for a good portion of my early life. I lived with her from one year old to ten years old. In the meantime, she helped me learn what was wrong and what was right (to an extent) and reinforced these lessons with relatively mild positive and negative reinforcement. I would occasionally go to Sunday School (yawn) but most of the time, I would just sleep in on Sundays and play outside. My mother worked as a schoolteacher during the day and a waitress by night(she had to get to work at 8am, school for me usually started at 7:30, so I was left catching the bus by myself in the morning, and coming home to an empty apartment in the afternoon.)
This left me to my own devices and I rarely, if ever, got into any serious trouble. When I was ten I moved in with my dad and was given more freedom than ever, with my dad working from ten in the morning to around 6:30 or 7 at night. I still never really got into huge trouble, and as a result of my being left alone most of the time I am used to being alone, without getting into trouble (consequences are bad, mm'kay?) and my parents trust me a whole ****ton at 19 (we even discussed my first car being an Infiniti G35 coupe...too bad we couldn't find one in my price range)
This has led me to believe that only mild positive and negative reinforcement are needed. Too much positive reinforcement and the child can become spoiled. Too much negative and the child will grow to be...well.. they'll have a complex or bad behavior of some sort.
Instead of rewarding them for everything, instead let them know that they are doing well and you are proud of them. Being told that my mother/father/grandmother(who is like a second mom to me) usually made me feel better than anything else. Interestingly enough, I've been told that my family would be proud of me whether I became a rocket scientist or mass murderer (we had a good laugh about the fact that I would probably make a much better mass murderer, were I to pursue that career path. Probably has to do with all the reading I do about crimes, espionage, etc etc etc lol)
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Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.07.30 01:37:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Awesome Possum That is one of the points of being a parent, knowing exactly what your child is thinking and doing.
So tell, how do you do this? Are you omni-present and -knowing like a God?
Well now.
Real parents are those who are aware of what their children are reading and watching. Real parents are the ones spending quality time with their children, teaching them 'proper' behaviour in private, public, at the table, etc.
So taking that into account, along with all the life experience a parent has already gone through, it should not take omniSCIENT (word you were looking for) parent to know what they're child is thinking and doing at any given time.
By the way. One does NOT have to be a biological father/mother to be a parent. The term is "legal parental guardian" for a reason. ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.07.30 01:44:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Qui Shon But let's forget USA also have the highest rates of violent crime out of western nations, *by far*. That might make us take a deeper look at whether "tough on crime" policies work, and we wouldn't want that, since it feels *so good* to wish bad things to bad people.
Guess Jamaica, Haiti, Brazil aren't "western" nations, even if they're on the same longitude as the US.
So.. whats your definition of a "western" nation?
As for letting criminals in the Army. Hell no. Right now the Army (and other branches) are over their monthly enlistment quotas. They're turning away all but the best qualified. Why should we lose spots to criminals and degenerates? ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Munchees
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.07.30 02:01:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Munchees on 30/07/2009 02:01:24
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Originally by: Qui Shon But let's forget USA also have the highest rates of violent crime out of western nations, *by far*. That might make us take a deeper look at whether "tough on crime" policies work, and we wouldn't want that, since it feels *so good* to wish bad things to bad people.
Guess Jamaica, Haiti, Brazil aren't "western" nations, even if they're on the same longitude as the US.
So.. whats your definition of a "western" nation?
As for letting criminals in the Army. Hell no. Right now the Army (and other branches) are over their monthly enlistment quotas. They're turning away all but the best qualified. Why should we lose spots to criminals and degenerates?
Countries using the Latin Alphabet in their main languages are considered part of the Western World. Guatemala (Spanish) has the highest crime rate of these countries.
Originally by: Mr Reeth
Why is it every time I read somebody call all Americans stupid I hear it in a British accent and think of this |
baltec1
Antares Shipyards Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.07.30 02:25:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Originally by: Qui Shon But let's forget USA also have the highest rates of violent crime out of western nations, *by far*. That might make us take a deeper look at whether "tough on crime" policies work, and we wouldn't want that, since it feels *so good* to wish bad things to bad people.
Guess Jamaica, Haiti, Brazil aren't "western" nations, even if they're on the same longitude as the US.
So.. whats your definition of a "western" nation?
As for letting criminals in the Army. Hell no. Right now the Army (and other branches) are over their monthly enlistment quotas. They're turning away all but the best qualified. Why should we lose spots to criminals and degenerates?
1950s style National service for repeat offenders.
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Orion Eridanus
Dakota HeadHunters
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Posted - 2009.07.30 02:50:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Qui Shon Edited by: Qui Shon on 29/07/2009 23:53:19
Yeah, let's be tough on prisoners, that'll reduce crime, great strategy. Just look at good ol US of A, **** yeah! Toughest sentencing of all the western countries, and also the highest incarceration rates, *by far*. Not to mention the only one still using capital punishment (or has Britain reverted to it's medieval ways also?).
But let's forget USA also have the highest rates of violent crime out of western nations, *by far*. That might make us take a deeper look at whether "tough on crime" policies work, and we wouldn't want that, since it feels *so good* to wish bad things to bad people.
Prime example of correlation does not equal causation
It appears with your second paragraph that the "tough on crime" policy is actually causing more violent crimes. The US population is almost 4 times that of the largest non US western nation (Germany). If you were to increase the population in the other countries to match that of the US then I'm pretty sure they'd be pretty close to matching the US for incarceration rates.
Originally by: Paulo Damarr That is a most Excellent Drake fitting, you are lucky to have survived.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.07.30 06:00:00 -
[116]
The US has a lot of badly decaying areas with large population densities where illicit economies can run rampant thanks to a dearth of legitimate alternatives. Some of these people need to be arrested, yes. Illegal gun traders and violent gang leaders are obviously detrimental to society and perpetuate violent crime wherever they go. But the underlying problems that produce these people isn't helped at all by merely rounding them up and imposing harsh sentences, not that I'm saying we shouldn't also do that in the case of violent felons.
There are three main reasons the US prison system is so overpopulated: 1. ridiculous drug laws 2. economic decay from the inner city to rural towns bolstering crime rates of all sorts 3. police forces much better at their job and considerably less corrupt than those in other countries suffering from problems 1 and 2
Crimes of passion and premeditated acts of theft or violence will never be done away with. That said, people in vulnerable areas need to be put to work, which at this point would require a historic effort of bringing back manufacturing jobs en masse to this country. Finding a way to reduce birth rates will only help that much more. The US has a very high birth rate for an industrial 21st century nation, which is a drain on resources and a problem considering the limited job market and dollars available for schools and medicine. But just ensuring that people have access to education and jobs would go a long way towards reducing crime. We know that's true. The crime rates in Europe and America were far higher in pre-industrial times. Violent crime especially.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.07.30 06:58:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Whitehound on 30/07/2009 06:58:49
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Originally by: Awesome Possum That is one of the points of being a parent, knowing exactly what your child is thinking and doing.
Real parents are those who are aware of what their children are reading and watching. ...
You still have not answered the question. How do you know what exactly your child is thinking and doing? --
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.07.30 07:46:00 -
[118]
Originally by: nahtoh
Yeah I see what your saying about that Qui, perhaps some kind of civil corps? Doing good deeds or hell some kind of reconstruction work in 3rd world countrys or disater relief?
Yes, that sounds good. Most positions in armies aren't for frontline infantry afterall, so there is loads of work they could do.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.07.30 07:59:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Awesome Possum
Guess Jamaica, Haiti, Brazil aren't "western" nations, even if they're on the same longitude as the US.
So.. whats your definition of a "western" nation?
The "west" in western nation refers only to European geography, but the term includes angloamericans as well as Australia and New Zeeland. I.e. west europe + anglos.
So no, Brazil is not a western nation.
I'll try to remember to use the term "developed world" instead, perhaps that will result in less confusion with Americans? Or do you prefer 1st world? One problem with these terms is that they include Japan as well, and then the list of countries with cap punishment grows by one, to two. Then again, some would count Japan among "western" nations as well, using the term as a synonym for "developed", but I'm not so sure that is a good idea.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.07.30 08:09:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 30/07/2009 08:10:03 I have no problem with capital punishment in principle. In practice, the US has major problems with sentencing equity when it comes to race and gender, not only for capital crimes but for major offenses in general. Minorities tend to get it worse than whites for the same crimes, and men get it worse than women. Until this is sorted out I'd support a national moratorium on death sentences.
Capital punishment probably doesn't dissuade crime, and I've heard it doesn't help the victims' families feel any sense of relief. But both of those issues are irrelevant to me. The fact of the matter is that forcibly confining someone to a prison for the rest of their lives is cruel, and some criminals are too dangerous to ever be offered so much as the glimmer of a chance of being able to escape incarceration. Some people, quite frankly, need to be removed from society in an assuredly permanent fashion.
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