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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 61 post(s) |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1115
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Posted - 2012.05.24 23:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
spookydonut wrote:Maybe you should have taken their warnings seriously and only entered one team.
Solid advice right there. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1429
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Posted - 2012.05.26 11:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Edenmain wrote:
Fair enough, but CCP.... Don'y you dare refer to EVE as a sandbox ever again, because it's clearly not... Well at least one that's raked flat by you whenever you feel the need.
The alliance tournament has never been a sandbox and by nature never will or can be. We make rules that specifically make it not a sandbox. When those rules aren't followed we enforce them. I'm sorry if you're confusing The Alliance Tournament Rules with the overall premise of the spaceship videogame EVE Online, but the fact remains that the sandbox mentality has never applied to the tournament. Except perhaps when it is convenient to forum posters who are mad. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1433
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Posted - 2012.05.26 12:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
iLLeLogicaL wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Edenmain wrote:
Fair enough, but CCP.... Don'y you dare refer to EVE as a sandbox ever again, because it's clearly not... Well at least one that's raked flat by you whenever you feel the need.
The alliance tournament has never been a sandbox and by nature never will or can be. We make rules that specifically make it not a sandbox. When those rules aren't followed we enforce them. I'm sorry if you're confusing The Alliance Tournament Rules with the overall premise of the spaceship videogame EVE Online, but the fact remains that the sandbox mentality has never applied to the tournament. Except perhaps when it is convenient to forum posters who are mad. But sisi has it own set of rules, and nowhere in the alliance rules did you state that these rules apply on sisi. In court here you would have nothing to stand on and this case would be dismissed on case of techniquality. You can however still win back a few of your playerbase by making it right, by letting one of them participate. But instead what you did, send a half assed reply and then when they can not do anything more to please you. You say, but you did something wrong and for that you get banned from participating in ATX. Instead of saying right from the start, It's either hydra or outbreak but not both.
Please tell me more about court I've never been in one.
:edit: As per the post you quoted sisi's rules weren't what they were banned for. The tournament rules are. I don't understand why this appears so hard to follow. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1433
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Posted - 2012.05.26 12:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
iLLeLogicaL wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:iLLeLogicaL wrote: But instead what you did, send a half assed reply and then when they can not do anything more to please you. You say, but you did something wrong and for that you get banned from participating in ATX. Instead of saying right from the start, It's either hydra or outbreak but not both.
Please tell me more about court I've never been in one. :edit: As per the post you quoted sisi's rules weren't what they were banned for. The tournament rules are. I don't understand why this appears so hard to follow. Please don't ignore the bolded underline line. Ignored problems don't magicly vanish.
Bolding and underlining don't magicly make words relevant. Read the stickies. They're not bolded and underlined but they do explain the situation! "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1433
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Posted - 2012.05.26 12:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Klown Walk wrote:Why didn-¦t anyone from the AT team respond to any email from them? or give them a warning instead of instantly removing them?
hi you seem to have missed the part where the email was posted but wasn't actually what was going on so responding to that email wouldn't have changed a thing I hope this helps. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1433
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Posted - 2012.05.26 12:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
Makkz wrote:A lot of reference to the many letters sent to AT people for clarity, perhaps you should be thinking in other terms.
CCP probably got those letters and it simply reaffirmed what they thought, and all those letters were just further proof of what hydra et all had planned. Obviously we don't know the content of the letters but from what we've seen i bet CCP read them as this.
Dear CCP,
We in Hydra are blatantly breaking the rules again, you know those rules everyone knows were brought in because of us, a gm said its ok so were going to carry on anyway, thats ok right?
Hydra
Pretty sure the letters everyone keeps harping about were posted here somewhere. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1433
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Posted - 2012.05.26 12:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
iLLeLogicaL wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Klown Walk wrote:Why didn-¦t anyone from the AT team respond to any email from them? or give them a warning instead of instantly removing them? hi you seem to have missed the part where the email was posted but wasn't actually what was going on so responding to that email wouldn't have changed a thing I hope this helps. Can you please refer me to the topic where the rules that are subject to change* got changed, and publicly announced that the A-team would also get banned. Because I will quote the rules as they're on the AT community website right now. Quote:Rules
Tournament Rules
This is a three stage tournament, with 64 alliances allowed to enter. There will be two pre-qualifying rounds, followed by a 32 team group stage and a 16 team final day. All competing pilots must have been members of the alliance for which they are competing, and be a member of that Alliance by downtime on May, 05, 2012. All alliance members are eligible to compete in any match in which their alliance is taking part, subject to all applicable rules; teams do not have to remain the same between games. To ensure that all Alliances get a fair opportunity to participate we will be checking on team entries and will disqualify teams who we consider to be 'B' or 'C' teams for bigger Alliances. And your post where you ban Hydra and Outbreak from entering is not a public announcement of a changed rule.
You are correct that was enforcement of the rules. So close!
"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1433
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Posted - 2012.05.26 12:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Klown Walk wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Klown Walk wrote:Why didn-¦t anyone from the AT team respond to any email from them? or give them a warning instead of instantly removing them? hi you seem to have missed the part where the email was posted but wasn't actually what was going on so responding to that email wouldn't have changed a thing I hope this helps. You could have told them not to practice together at all since you made the rule after what they did last year.
Sure could have if that was illegal. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
iLLeLogicaL wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:iLLeLogicaL wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Klown Walk wrote:Why didn-¦t anyone from the AT team respond to any email from them? or give them a warning instead of instantly removing them? hi you seem to have missed the part where the email was posted but wasn't actually what was going on so responding to that email wouldn't have changed a thing I hope this helps. Can you please refer me to the topic where the rules that are subject to change* got changed, and publicly announced that the A-team would also get banned. Because I will quote the rules as they're on the AT community website right now. Quote:Rules
Tournament Rules
This is a three stage tournament, with 64 alliances allowed to enter. There will be two pre-qualifying rounds, followed by a 32 team group stage and a 16 team final day. All competing pilots must have been members of the alliance for which they are competing, and be a member of that Alliance by downtime on May, 05, 2012. All alliance members are eligible to compete in any match in which their alliance is taking part, subject to all applicable rules; teams do not have to remain the same between games. To ensure that all Alliances get a fair opportunity to participate we will be checking on team entries and will disqualify teams who we consider to be 'B' or 'C' teams for bigger Alliances. And your post where you ban Hydra and Outbreak from entering is not a public announcement of a changed rule. You are correct that was enforcement of the rules. So close! You're probably the biggest troll of us all Sreegs. But the only thing you did was crush my expectation to see how Hydra was going to fare in this new AT. Genuinly dissappointed with CCP in general now. I can't believe how happy I was when crucible got released. And now it's back to ye olde CCP with no regards for playerbase, unified inventory being the perfect example from that. Thank you for ruining my viewing pleasure of ATX, and taking out what probably would have been the most fun fights to watch.
I'm pretty sure I usually blame the people responsible for wrongdoing when I get mad. I don't blame the prison. Hopefully this helps point your anger in the right direction. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kalvunia IV wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:iLLeLogicaL wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Edenmain wrote:
Fair enough, but CCP.... Don'y you dare refer to EVE as a sandbox ever again, because it's clearly not... Well at least one that's raked flat by you whenever you feel the need.
The alliance tournament has never been a sandbox and by nature never will or can be. We make rules that specifically make it not a sandbox. When those rules aren't followed we enforce them. I'm sorry if you're confusing The Alliance Tournament Rules with the overall premise of the spaceship videogame EVE Online, but the fact remains that the sandbox mentality has never applied to the tournament. Except perhaps when it is convenient to forum posters who are mad. But sisi has it own set of rules, and nowhere in the alliance rules did you state that these rules apply on sisi. In court here you would have nothing to stand on and this case would be dismissed on case of techniquality. You can however still win back a few of your playerbase by making it right, by letting one of them participate. But instead what you did, send a half assed reply and then when they can not do anything more to please you. You say, but you did something wrong and for that you get banned from participating in ATX. Instead of saying right from the start, It's either hydra or outbreak but not both. Please tell me more about court I've never been in one. :edit: As per the post you quoted sisi's rules weren't what they were banned for. The tournament rules are. I don't understand why this appears so hard to follow. I've read the post, and it seams to me that you implying that being part of the same Alliance on SiSi is why you concluded that Hydra/OB are working as one team. But if they had stayed separate on SiSi and done the same thing that would be alright. You are also pointing out that you can not predict the future, I agree with you that is impossible. But I also find it impossible to read minds. As the rule about A and B teams are vague at best and reading your mind as to what constitutes "working as one team" is. Nowhere does it state that being part of the same corp on SiSi for testing and logi purposes are deemed as working as one team. On the other part you were willing to open a dialog with both RvB and PL to make sure they did not get banned over some technicality but were unable to do so with Hydra and OB could be an oversight on your part and should be admitted and attempts should be made to amend this.
None of those teams had a history of cheating using the exact same methods they were using again this year. Were we not to have to enforce these new rules a conversation with PL or RvB wouldn't have been necessary because those teams would have been in.
I hope this helps but it probably won't. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
iLLeLogicaL wrote:And Sreegs did you read this article: http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/05/24/internet-spaceships-are-serious-businessIt was posted on EvE Online's Facebook a few days ago. When I read that article I thought that's exactly what eve is like and that makes it unique. I don't know if it was your sole decision to ban Hydra/OB, or if other people were involved in the making. But I bet you were one of the higher ups in that equasion, and choices like the one made here. What were you thinking? Banning both teams instead of one, such choices make noone happy but the worst of trolls (and goonplayers somehow). I like EVE very much, because there is no other MMO out there that keeps fascinating me this much. But sometimes I think, you guys don't know what your doing. It just makes no sense to any logical, objective, observant.
You can read my explanation in the stickied posts above. If that doesn't make sense to any logical, objective, or observant, whatever those are, then I apologize. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
Makkz wrote:They didn't need to open a dialogue, they had plenty of evidence provided by the people involved, proving they were working together.
AT isn't EVE that has been true since its conception, CCP had evidence proving that Hydra and ally were doing exactly what happened last year, all of the letters almost constantly refer to the hydra/OB group as a "we".
As put before I'm with many that ATX will miss hydra they truly are top notch pvpers, of the highest caliber, but they were clearly breaking the rules that were brought in because of there actions last year, I think this tiny pre 20 page thread shows that this is NOT that big a deal to the majority of EVE players, its definitely no threadnaught.
If you remove Hydra and outbreak from this forum there are less threads and this one is pretty tiny... oh it doesn't exist either. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Suleiman Shouaa wrote:CCP still mad due to AT IX Final (despite the semi-finals being better than most finals). CCP staff who are dedicated to the AT chose not to respond to Hydra's emails, despite responding to other emails from other teams. CCP bans 0utbreak/Genos, despite them having all the time in the world to tell them to knock it off if they actually wanted them in the tournament (ie. greater good for all the viewers). CCP starts deleting posts on forums related to this
:shocker:
If you're going to post a timeline insert facts. Don't misrepresent me or the team purposely. That doesn't look like a request because it isn't. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
iLLeLogicaL wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: You are correct that was enforcement of the rules. So close!
To go further, I still have to see the rule where it says A-teams will also be banned. You never mention that you will also disqualify A-teams.
Try reading the rule because we actually said we'd ban both teams. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kazruw Drol wrote:Guys relax. It's just springtime for CCP, and they have a tradition of going full Screegs this time of the year. I just wish this years Alliance Tournament wasn't based on Whose line is it anyway.In the future it would be best if all similar decision had to be accepted by the CSM in order to avoid another Screegs/t20 incident.
Yes, banning a team from the tournament for continued wrongdoing is similar to developer scandals involving item creation. You clearly have a firm grasp on reality and are good with perspective. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
iLLeLogicaL wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:iLLeLogicaL wrote: You're probably the biggest troll of us all Sreegs. But the only thing you did was crush my expectation to see how Hydra was going to fare in this new AT.
Genuinly dissappointed with CCP in general now. I can't believe how happy I was when crucible got released. And now it's back to ye olde CCP with no regards for playerbase, unified inventory being the perfect example from that.
Thank you for ruining my viewing pleasure of ATX, and taking out what probably would have been the most fun fights to watch.
I'm pretty sure I usually blame the people responsible for wrongdoing when I get mad. I don't blame the prison. Hopefully this helps point your anger in the right direction. If you want to go that way let's prosecute them in front of a jury of peers. Still need to see the rule where it states that A-teams will be disqualified aswell. If you're so hung on to them, show me proof that they're were going to do this again. And that still doesn't give you the right to ban both divisions of what is, according to you/whoever made the decision one team. Because it's nowhere stated in the new or old rules
It's cute that you think we would do this but we never have and never will. You are wasting everyone's time including mine and your own. There is not, nor has there ever been implied, any democracy in the alliance tournament. Nor will there be. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
IamBeastx wrote:Hmmm
Attempt to stop ''B'' team metagaming, thats ok with me, leads to better pewpew imo whilst still allowing the other forms of tournament metagaming.
Forcibly stop one 'group' from entering multiple teams, thats cool too.
Ban that same group from entering completely, bearing in mind they are the previous winners, well known pvpers and a good team, not good, we want the best pvp teams, not 'the best of the rest'.
On another note, waffles (sniggwaffe) would LOVE to kick PL's ass in the tourney, seriously, no quarter would be given by either side.
We're too busy with D3, DayZ and continous BF3 Ownag3 to seriously contend in the tourney.
You missed the part where how good they are at spaceships don't exempt them from the rules. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:Where is the rule that you can be banned for being in same corp/alliance on the test server... what happens on the test server has never before affected what happened on the real server... so that reason alone is very bad
Read the stickies you seem to have missed them. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Intigo wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Suleiman Shouaa wrote:CCP still mad due to AT IX Final (despite the semi-finals being better than most finals). CCP staff who are dedicated to the AT chose not to respond to Hydra's emails, despite responding to other emails from other teams. CCP bans 0utbreak/Genos, despite them having all the time in the world to tell them to knock it off if they actually wanted them in the tournament (ie. greater good for all the viewers). CCP starts deleting posts on forums related to this
:shocker: If you're going to post a timeline insert facts. Don't misrepresent me or the team purposely. That doesn't look like a request because it isn't. What facts did he miss? The part where a Senior GM concluded it was ok to practice together? The part where other teams practiced together? The part where CVA was confused about the rules as well and had to ask for clarification because HYDRA & Outbreak were instantly banned? The part where you left the rules intentionally vague so you could ban teams that you had a grudge against even though they had already attempted to get clarification from the Alliance Tournament team?
You can keep pretending you were banned for "practicing together" as much as you want. That was never the case. If I wanted you out you'd never have entered. Stop being obtuse. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:Sreeg you are really really bad at talking to the playerbase... you should find someone else to do it for you... you are acting like Hilmar did before he had to say sorry to everyone.
ok "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kadesh Priestess wrote:IamBeastx wrote:Until ATX secondary teams was not a rule breaker.
Correct, but read this: CCP Sreegs wrote:Kalvunia IV wrote:I've read the post, and it seams to me that you implying that being part of the same Alliance on SiSi is why you concluded that Hydra/OB are working as one team. But if they had stayed separate on SiSi and done the same thing that would be alright.
You are also pointing out that you can not predict the future, I agree with you that is impossible. But I also find it impossible to read minds. As the rule about A and B teams are vague at best and reading your mind as to what constitutes "working as one team" is. Nowhere does it state that being part of the same corp on SiSi for testing and logi purposes are deemed as working as one team.
On the other part you were willing to open a dialog with both RvB and PL to make sure they did not get banned over some technicality but were unable to do so with Hydra and OB could be an oversight on your part and should be admitted and attempts should be made to amend this.
None of those teams had a history of cheating using the exact same methods they were using again this year. Were we not to have to enforce these new rules a conversation with PL or RvB wouldn't have been necessary because those teams would have been in. I hope this helps but it probably won't. Here Sreegs claims he made an exclusion for RvB and PL because they were not 'cheating' previously, which is not true - in a sense if we apply new rule to previous ATs. If we don't, then Hydra/OB were not cheating either, and his claim is wrong again.
That's not what I said. Do not purposely misrepresent me. I am perfectly capable of speaking for myself and the quote you quoted doesn't say what you said it does. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
iLLeLogicaL wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:iLLeLogicaL wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: You are correct that was enforcement of the rules. So close!
To go further, I still have to see the rule where it says A-teams will also be banned. You never mention that you will also disqualify A-teams. Try reading the rule because we actually said we'd ban both teams. Vague wording at best, it's not even included in the FULL RULE LIST which you can find in the dev blog archive. Excerpt from devblog ( http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28644 ): Quote:These are some of the main rule changes which we feel will add to the overall betterment of Alliance Tournament. Below is the full rule list for your information.
Match Rules
Tournament Rules
This is a three stage tournament, with 64 alliances allowed to enter. There will be two pre-qualifying rounds, followed by a 32 team group stage and a 16 team final day. All competing pilots must have been members of the alliance for which they are competing, and be a member of that Alliance by downtime on May, 05, 2012. All alliance members are eligible to compete in any match in which their alliance is taking part, subject to all applicable rules; teams do not have to remain the same between games. To ensure that all Alliances get a fair opportunity to participate we will be checking on team entries and will disqualify teams who we consider to be GÇÿBGÇÖ or GÇÿCGÇÖ teams for bigger Alliances. Where is it hidden ;-)
Clearly not there nevermind let me unban them. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kalvunia IV wrote:Quote: None of those teams had a history of cheating using the exact same methods they were using again this year. Were we not to have to enforce these new rules a conversation with PL or RvB wouldn't have been necessary because those teams would have been in.
I hope this helps but it probably won't.
PL and RvB do not have a history of cheating, neither does Hydra and OB as they were well within the AT9 rules last year, as you CCP did state at the time. And Hydra and OB were not the only so called 'A and B' team, as you well know. They just happen to both as capable as the other as opposed to PL's B team. And you state in your reply that you found it necessary to have have a conversation with PL and RvB, but it did not occur to you to have the same dialog with Hydra/OB? What is this, The Banana Bending Factory?
No conversation was had with PL. The conversation with RvB was about how to ensure that they were functioning properly for the tournament. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Intigo wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Intigo wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Suleiman Shouaa wrote:CCP still mad due to AT IX Final (despite the semi-finals being better than most finals). CCP staff who are dedicated to the AT chose not to respond to Hydra's emails, despite responding to other emails from other teams. CCP bans 0utbreak/Genos, despite them having all the time in the world to tell them to knock it off if they actually wanted them in the tournament (ie. greater good for all the viewers). CCP starts deleting posts on forums related to this
:shocker: If you're going to post a timeline insert facts. Don't misrepresent me or the team purposely. That doesn't look like a request because it isn't. What facts did he miss? The part where a Senior GM concluded it was ok to practice together? The part where other teams practiced together? The part where CVA was confused about the rules as well and had to ask for clarification because HYDRA & Outbreak were instantly banned? The part where you left the rules intentionally vague so you could ban teams that you had a grudge against even though they had already attempted to get clarification from the Alliance Tournament team? You can keep pretending you were banned for "practicing together" as much as you want. That was never the case. If I wanted you out you'd never have entered. Stop being obtuse. That may very well be, but the rules under which HYDRA & Outbreak were banned were so vague that anyone who practiced together could have been banned under them. You clarified them after banning HYDRA & Outbreak that joining a single corp is the basis for which you are officially "ban-worthy" Did you read the post by the CVA member yet? They were considering doing the very same thing because your rules were so vague that was impossible to tell if that was legal or not. You have no way of saying "HYDRA & Outbreak should have seen this coming" when other teams considered doing the very same thing. How can you justify banning HYDRA & Outbreak without any warning, without responding to any attempts at communication when other teams had considered doing the very same thing that HYDRA & Outbreak did in order to make wormhole practicing ENDURABLE?! This goes for YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT as well. Because the rule was so vague they had no way of knowing they were breaking them - this is not exclusive to HYDRA & Outbreak's situation, it goes for every team in the tournament. If you had seen CVA & 4th doing the same thing we did prior to banning HYDRA & Outbreak would you have banned both their teams too?
Keep grasping buddy eventually you'll find something that sticks and we'll let you back in. Honest.
"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
Intigo wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Intigo wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Suleiman Shouaa wrote:CCP still mad due to AT IX Final (despite the semi-finals being better than most finals). CCP staff who are dedicated to the AT chose not to respond to Hydra's emails, despite responding to other emails from other teams. CCP bans 0utbreak/Genos, despite them having all the time in the world to tell them to knock it off if they actually wanted them in the tournament (ie. greater good for all the viewers). CCP starts deleting posts on forums related to this
:shocker: If you're going to post a timeline insert facts. Don't misrepresent me or the team purposely. That doesn't look like a request because it isn't. What facts did he miss? The part where a Senior GM concluded it was ok to practice together? The part where other teams practiced together? The part where CVA was confused about the rules as well and had to ask for clarification because HYDRA & Outbreak were instantly banned? The part where you left the rules intentionally vague so you could ban teams that you had a grudge against even though they had already attempted to get clarification from the Alliance Tournament team? You can keep pretending you were banned for "practicing together" as much as you want. That was never the case. If I wanted you out you'd never have entered. Stop being obtuse. That may very well be, but the rules under which HYDRA & Outbreak were banned were so vague that anyone who practiced together could have been banned under them. You clarified them after banning HYDRA & Outbreak that joining a single corp is the basis for which you are officially "ban-worthy" Did you read the post by the CVA member yet? They were considering doing the very same thing because your rules were so vague that was impossible to tell if that was legal or not. You have no way of saying "HYDRA & Outbreak should have seen this coming" when other teams considered doing the very same thing. How can you justify banning HYDRA & Outbreak without any warning, without responding to any attempts at communication when other teams had considered doing the very same thing that HYDRA & Outbreak did in order to make wormhole practicing ENDURABLE?! This goes for YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT as well. Because the rule was so vague they had no way of knowing they were breaking them - this is not exclusive to HYDRA & Outbreak's situation, it goes for every team in the tournament. If you had seen CVA & 4th doing the same thing we did prior to banning HYDRA & Outbreak would you have banned both their teams too?
I'd recommend checking the sticky threads for your answer. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Intigo wrote:Tappits wrote:IamBeastx wrote:Kadesh Priestess wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:None of those teams had a history of cheating using the exact same methods they were using again this year. Were we not to have to enforce these new rules a conversation with PL or RvB wouldn't have been necessary because those teams would have been in. PL had a b-team in AT9 and probably even earlier. They didn't **** up with finals, but it doesn't mean they were not 'cheating'. Until ATX secondary teams was not a rule breaker. B team also tested 100% separately from the main team. it had its own fits and tactics. it never merged 2 teams/corps/alliances into one corp and hid in a worm hole. It's a good thing that CCP clarified that joining the same corp was not allowed, but practicing together is. The fact that the rule is so vague is the very reason that CVA & 4th were confused. They had considered doing the very same thing before HYDRA & Outbreak were banned. Do you think Sreegs would have instantly banned their teams too?
Yes let's conjecture since reality isn't working. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
Intigo wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Keep grasping buddy eventually you'll find something that sticks and we'll let you back in. Honest.
How am I grasping? I presented some questions to you that you chose to ignore (a fairly common trend, with the Alliance Tournament team, it would appear). How can you justify banning HYDRA & Outbreak without any warning, without responding to any attempts at communication when other teams had considered doing the very same thing that HYDRA & Outbreak did in order to make wormhole practicing ENDURABLE?! Did you read the CVA thread yet?
Do you maybe speak Spanish? How do I say "Read the stickies" in Spanish? Someone help this guy out. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
IamBeastx wrote:Intigo wrote:
It's a good thing that CCP clarified that joining the same corp was not allowed, but practicing together is.
The fact that the rule is so vague is the very reason that CVA & 4th were confused. They had considered doing the very same thing before HYDRA & Outbreak were banned.
Do you think Sreegs would have instantly banned their teams too?
Don't confuse my posts with anything other than replies related to previous tournies, go back a bit further and you'll see i do not agree with the complete ban, even the rules previously posted don't mention A-Teams being banned for having b,c, etc teams
We did mention it somewhere it just really isn't worth my time digging it up for people who won't be participating in this year's alliance tournament. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
iLLeLogicaL wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:IamBeastx wrote:Intigo wrote:
It's a good thing that CCP clarified that joining the same corp was not allowed, but practicing together is.
The fact that the rule is so vague is the very reason that CVA & 4th were confused. They had considered doing the very same thing before HYDRA & Outbreak were banned.
Do you think Sreegs would have instantly banned their teams too?
Don't confuse my posts with anything other than replies related to previous tournies, go back a bit further and you'll see i do not agree with the complete ban, even the rules previously posted don't mention A-Teams being banned for having b,c, etc teams We did mention it somewhere it just really isn't worth my time digging it up for people who won't be participating in this year's alliance tournament. And that's the precise reason why you should step out and let someone above you handle this.
ok
:edit: haha j/k I'm still here "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
Duncan Tanner wrote:It's alright Sreegs, it's clear that trying to come to a resolution that allowed the defending champions to participate was never a priority for you.
Maintaining a high level of competitiveness for the tournament was never a priority for you.
Dealing with the situation professionally was never a priority for you.
We've wanted to believe that this was a misunderstanding on your end so we tried to post clarification and come to a resolution.
We were wrong however, the misunderstanding is on our end. You never intended for us to participate in the tournament to begin with. If you had you would've talked to us as you talked to others before taking action.
We've come to accept this now.
Enjoy your tournament.
Everyone will thanks! "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:57:00 -
[31] - Quote
Suleiman Shouaa wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Suleiman Shouaa wrote:CCP still mad due to AT IX Final (despite the semi-finals being better than most finals). CCP staff who are dedicated to the AT chose not to respond to Hydra's emails, despite responding to other emails from other teams. CCP bans 0utbreak/Genos, despite them having all the time in the world to tell them to knock it off if they actually wanted them in the tournament (ie. greater good for all the viewers). CCP starts deleting posts on forums related to this
:shocker: If you're going to post a timeline insert facts. Don't misrepresent me or the team purposely. That doesn't look like a request because it isn't. The first point could be false, however the following still stands: 0utbreak, Hydra etc. sent emails to that email address with queries about the Alliance Tournament. At this point, two things happened: i) You read those emails and thought about what to do with them OR ii) You didn't read them. Since other teams have revealed that they've sent in their own queries and that they've been answered, it's pretty clear that those emails have been read and that you deliberately chose not to respond to 0utbreak/Hydra's queries. By refusing to communicate with them, you knew that they would continue along this road and that you would have to ban them from the tournament. If your primary concern was to make this tournament as good as possible, you would want them in the tournament. Why? They are in the highest "tier" of tournament teams - they have ISK, they have experience, they have skillpoints and they have teamwork. Most teams only have 1-2, some with 3. Not many have all 4. But, you didn't want them in the tournament. Your feelings regarding last year's final ruled supreme over your desire to make this the best alliance tournament ever. Do I think you shouldn't host the AT? No, you obviously have a passion for it otherwise you wouldn't be replying about it on a Saturday afternoon when I presume you're off the clock. And the improvements to ship points/team sizes etc. should shake it up quite nicely, with more gank orientated setups which are more fun to watch than the logi orientated setups. Just admit that you had a lapse of judgement and for the greater good will allow them to submit a joint team and most of this will go away. As for deleting posts? Compare and contrast https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=113748 with http://eve-search.com/thread/113748-1.
I don't delete posts nor have I asked for any to be deleted. Please don't say what I did or didn't know. I'm not a psychic and neither are you. The email sent is irrelevant as I've already pointed out and I'm tired of explaining that. I'm also tired of explaining that how good someone is doesn't have any bearing on the rules or how they're applied.
I'm also tired of explaining that if I didn't want them in the tournament they wouldn't have been able to apply.
I know it all seems pretty simple when I write that but that's because it is.
You won't be seeing Hydra or Outbreak in this tournament in any form as per the stickies. I already said that as well. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:58:00 -
[32] - Quote
carbomb wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:[
None of those teams had a history of cheating using the exact same methods they were using again this year. Were we not to have to enforce these new rules a conversation with PL or RvB wouldn't have been necessary because those teams would have been in.
I hope this helps but it probably won't. I'm Sorry, where did it say that what happend in AT9 was against the rules? No rules were broken! therefore they can not be regarded as "cheats" for it. What would probably end all this posting is an admission from sreegs and co that basically this is them hitting back at last years finalists out of spite. You outmetagamed the metagamers and fair play ccp, you did it well. Just admit that this is payback and this matter will be closed. Its pretty pathetic how you are behaving. Most people can see that this was your attempt at revenge. You really are a bunch of kids at times. You made mistakes, you tried cover them up. admit your wrong doings and move along. By the way, If one of my employee's spoke to my customers the way you do to yours you would be out on your ear! Show some professionalism, man. also love how you hung the Senior GM who responded to Hydra/0utbreak out to dry to cover you behinds. Smooth!
Read the stickies. You seem to have missed them "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 14:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
iLLeLogicaL wrote:Even a simpleton can easily why they went off together for the sake of convenience. And if you're a bit serious about winning, like Hydra & outbreak are. You go practice in a wormhole.
They only need 1 corp. They can train against worthy adversaries. Fleet finder is a nifty handy tool when you can just tick "corporation".
And there's this super awesome feature introduced (after being pushed by an elected official of the playerbase, TwoStep) called Corporation Bookmarks.
As wormhole dwelling resident, I can tell you this one was a lifechanger.
If you're serious about winning you enter two teams and act that way. Just like every team that will be competing this year. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
Intigo wrote:Reiterating "read the stickies" does not explain anything at all. CVA & 4th considered doing the very same thing we did without being aware at all that it was not allowed because your rules were so vague that you can suit any ruling to fit your needs.
Does the fact that they had the same plan initially not give you a hint at how vague your ruleset is and how silly it is for the entire Alliance Tournament team to ignore all attempts at communication from Garmon?
And yet you instantly ban 3 teams taking all those things into consideration.
It's impressive.
Read the stickies. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
iLLeLogicaL wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:iLLeLogicaL wrote:Even a simpleton can easily why they went off together for the sake of convenience. And if you're a bit serious about winning, like Hydra & outbreak are. You go practice in a wormhole.
They only need 1 corp. They can train against worthy adversaries. Fleet finder is a nifty handy tool when you can just tick "corporation".
And there's this super awesome feature introduced (after being pushed by an elected official of the playerbase, TwoStep) called Corporation Bookmarks.
As wormhole dwelling resident, I can tell you this one was a lifechanger. If you're serious about winning you enter two teams and act that way. Just like every team that will be competing this year. And so they did! They just trained against each other!
oh it's this old untruth again haven't seen that one before! "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:02:00 -
[36] - Quote
IamBeastx wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: We did mention it somewhere it just really isn't worth my time digging it up for people who won't be participating in this year's alliance tournament.
Of course it is, you are currently the only member of CCP staff actively and publicly replying to this issue. Most arguments are about them being completely excluded are based on no rules say 'A' teams will be banned as well if found to have 'B' / 'C' etc teams. Your saying there is a section saying these teams will be removed but won't link/quote it. Also, there are competing teams asking for this information so dig it up for them.
Whether we'd remove both teams or not is irrelevant to the team in question who is spamming these forums at the moment. The team who won't be competing. I'll try to dig it up in a second. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:09:00 -
[37] - Quote
Suleiman Shouaa wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Suleiman Shouaa wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:[quote=Suleiman Shouaa]CCP still mad due to AT IX Final (despite the semi-finals being better than most finals). CCP staff who are dedicated to the AT chose not to respond to Hydra's emails, despite responding to other emails from other teams. CCP bans 0utbreak/Genos, despite them having all the time in the world to tell them to knock it off if they actually wanted them in the tournament (ie. greater good for all the viewers). CCP starts deleting posts on forums related to this
:shocker: -snipe- I don't delete posts nor have I asked for any to be deleted. Please don't say what I did or didn't know. I'm not a psychic and neither are you. The email sent is irrelevant as I've already pointed out and I'm tired of explaining that. I'm also tired of explaining that how good someone is doesn't have any bearing on the rules or how they're applied. I'm also tired of explaining that if I didn't want them in the tournament they wouldn't have been able to apply. I know it all seems pretty simple when I write that but that's because it is. You won't be seeing Hydra or Outbreak in this tournament in any form as per the stickies. I already said that as well. When did I say you were the one deleting them? I said "CCP starts deleting posts on forums related to this". Are you saying that someone outside CCP is deleting them? So if all teams are treated equally regardless of how good they, how come one team was responded to but another team or two wasn't responded to?This is what I don't understand. You're willing to work with RvB, PL etc. so they can participate. But not with 0utbreak or Genos. Why not? And don't say they're previous cheaters when there were no rules against what they did (in fact, PL did the same thing, just were less successful - no insult to PL meant). There's a difference between being firm and just refusing to listen.
Neither one of those teams was cheating in this way. I hope this helps. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:10:00 -
[38] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:
I'm not a psychic and neither are you.
Actually, yes you are, or at least you are claiming to be. You are claiming this because you seem to be stating that because they trained together, YOU KNOW FOR A FACT, that they intended to collude together during the ATX(*) and possibly throw matches like the final ATIX. So yes, you are claiming a motivation that is inside the mind of the individuals. You would have to be psychic to know that they were intending to collude together because they were sparring together.
No but what I do know is what they did last year and it won't be happening again now. You're welcome. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:11:00 -
[39] - Quote
Raimo wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: No conversation was had with PL. The conversation with RvB was about how to ensure that they were functioning properly for the tournament.
And Hydra (+Outbreak) who tried to initiate a similar conversation so they could function properly in the tournament (the oft mentioned emails) did not deserve it but RvB did? Dev favouritism, plain and simple. Also, this thread with all them (archived elsewhere) game dev responses are pure comedy gold. When the weekend is over some CCP high ups will be very interested I'm sure... You cannot invent this stuff. Somebody who is actually employed and would assumedly need to keep his manners up :) CCP Sreegs wrote:
Did you read the CVA thread yet?
Do you maybe speak Spanish? How do I say "Read the stickies" in Spanish? Someone help this guy out.
Ed: This
Suleiman Shouaa wrote:
This is what I don't understand. You're willing to work with RvB, PL etc. so they can participate. But not with 0utbreak or Genos. Why not? And don't say they're previous cheaters when there were no rules against what they did (in fact, PL did the same thing, just were less successful - no insult to PL meant).
There's a difference between being firm and just refusing to listen.
[/quote]
Hi you seem to have missed the stickies on this topic. Please read them. I'd say come back when you're done but you've already said the same thing enough today. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:12:00 -
[40] - Quote
iLLeLogicaL wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Karbox Delacroix wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:
I'm not a psychic and neither are you.
Actually, yes you are, or at least you are claiming to be. You are claiming this because you seem to be stating that because they trained together, YOU KNOW FOR A FACT, that they intended to collude together during the ATX(*) and possibly throw matches like the final ATIX. So yes, you are claiming a motivation that is inside the mind of the individuals. You would have to be psychic to know that they were intending to collude together because they were sparring together. No but what I do know is what they did last year and it won't be happening again now. You're welcome. A fact that could also easily be achieved by just banning one of them.
Deleting TQ or cancelling the tournament would solve that problem also while we're conjecturing. I think I'm getting good at this. It's so much easier than dealing with reality thanks! "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
carbomb wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:carbomb wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:[
None of those teams had a history of cheating using the exact same methods they were using again this year. Were we not to have to enforce these new rules a conversation with PL or RvB wouldn't have been necessary because those teams would have been in.
I hope this helps but it probably won't. I'm Sorry, where did it say that what happend in AT9 was against the rules? No rules were broken! therefore they can not be regarded as "cheats" for it. What would probably end all this posting is an admission from sreegs and co that basically this is them hitting back at last years finalists out of spite. You outmetagamed the metagamers and fair play ccp, you did it well. Just admit that this is payback and this matter will be closed. Its pretty pathetic how you are behaving. Most people can see that this was your attempt at revenge. You really are a bunch of kids at times. You made mistakes, you tried cover them up. admit your wrong doings and move along. By the way, If one of my employee's spoke to my customers the way you do to yours you would be out on your ear! Show some professionalism, man. also love how you hung the Senior GM who responded to Hydra/0utbreak out to dry to cover you behinds. Smooth! Read the stickies. You seem to have missed them if they cheated in AT9 then you would have disqualified them both and certainly not awarded them their prizes. The reason you didn't, is because there were no rules about what they did. You can not brandish them as cheats when they did not break any rules.
Thank you for telling me why I do what I do. They are cheats because they were cheating which is why they won't be in this year's tournament as explained in two sticky posts in this very forum. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Karbox Delacroix wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:
I'm not a psychic and neither are you.
Actually, yes you are, or at least you are claiming to be. You are claiming this because you seem to be stating that because they trained together, YOU KNOW FOR A FACT, that they intended to collude together during the ATX(*) and possibly throw matches like the final ATIX. So yes, you are claiming a motivation that is inside the mind of the individuals. You would have to be psychic to know that they were intending to collude together because they were sparring together. No but what I do know is what they did last year and it won't be happening again now. You're welcome. This only feeds the paranoids who will site this as proof of bias and that some were looking for a pretext to exclude Hydra and Outbreak.
if you say so
:edit: we don't need pretexts "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:18:00 -
[43] - Quote
Sumeragy wrote:Is it just me or does he troll everyone who wants to have a serious discussion
There isn't a serious discussion on this forum in the past 24 hours except where that one guy asked a question that subsequently got filled with garbage by Hydra and I'm not trolling. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
Suleiman Shouaa wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Neither one of those teams was cheating in this way. I hope this helps. They asked for clarification since what you've stated as "working together" is so loose it's actually incredible. Why didn't you just say that: Doing X,Y,Z will get you banned BUT U,V,W is ok They asked for clarification via the official line of communication. You did not respond to said request. So, they sent it again. Again you did not respond. So, since the official line of communication wasn't responding, they used another line of communication to reach the same source at the end of the day since the GMs should be able to defer any queries to the appropriate party and get the right response. They got a response and went with it since it was the first response they got. What else do you want them to do? Can you please post your phone number so if you ignore two of my emails, I can get a hold of you?
The response they got didn't ok what they did nor did they say what they were doing in the email making both irrelevant but I already explained this. Now I know why there are canned responses this is getting tiring. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:23:00 -
[45] - Quote
iLLeLogicaL wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:iLLeLogicaL wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Karbox Delacroix wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:
I'm not a psychic and neither are you.
Actually, yes you are, or at least you are claiming to be. You are claiming this because you seem to be stating that because they trained together, YOU KNOW FOR A FACT, that they intended to collude together during the ATX(*) and possibly throw matches like the final ATIX. So yes, you are claiming a motivation that is inside the mind of the individuals. You would have to be psychic to know that they were intending to collude together because they were sparring together. No but what I do know is what they did last year and it won't be happening again now. You're welcome. A fact that could also easily be achieved by just banning one of them. Deleting TQ or cancelling the tournament would solve that problem also while we're conjecturing. I think I'm getting good at this. It's so much easier than dealing with reality thanks! That's an even better option! It would get rid of 2 problems at once! But I just want to see Hydro or Outbreak, since your of the opinion that they're one team, in the tournament for ~gudfites~ guess I can't expect that coming from a blobman :-(
I'd have loved to see them as well. As stated in the two stickies at the top of this forum. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
IamBeastx wrote:Time Funnel wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: Thank you for telling me why I do what I do. They are cheats because they were cheating which is why they won't be in this year's tournament as explained in two sticky posts in this very forum.
And there you have it. They were cheating and that is why they were banned. Since the rule changes what they did last year is "no longer ok". Do you guys still want to argue about who said what and whatever? A stupid monkey with a learning disability could see they were cheating. Nobody wanted to say it. Still waiting on the link/quote stating 'A' teams will get banned if they are deemed to have a 'B' team.
I linked it a page or two ago. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:25:00 -
[47] - Quote
ScoRpS wrote:Sreegs since you're the only one responding, which i guess i am greatful for can you clarify that we will be ok to apply again next year or will the AT team be as strident and underhanded again in opposition to our participation?
I'm going to worry about that next year. Right now I have this year's tournament to worry about. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:27:00 -
[48] - Quote
Intigo wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:No but what I do know is what they did last year and it won't be happening again now. You're welcome. That's a great way to run a tournament. Ban teams this year based on what they did last year when the ruleset was entirely different. The more you reply the more obvious it gets that banning HYDRA & Outbreak is entirely because of a grudge held by CCP. The Alliance Tournament team ignores all emails sent to them and you create a ruleset so vague that you can fit it to your needs as you go. CVA & 4th intended to do the very same thing that HYDRA & Outbreak did because they were practicing in a wormhole too - you still have yet to address that at all. The fact that CVA & 4th felt that this was within the rules (just as we did) is a testimony to how insane it is that you ban HYDRA & Outbreak over doing it.
I know it suits your desire to be martyrs to keep pretending there's some grudge but as I said you have yourself, well really your leaders to blame and absolutely nobody else. I'm sorry accepting responsibility for your own actions that we didn't make you do is so difficult but at some point you're going to have to come to grips with you. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:29:00 -
[49] - Quote
Kazruw Drol wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Kazruw Drol wrote:Guys relax. It's just springtime for CCP, and they have a tradition of going full Screegs this time of the year. I just wish this years Alliance Tournament wasn't based on Whose line is it anyway.In the future it would be best if all similar decision had to be accepted by the CSM in order to avoid another Screegs/t20 incident. Yes, banning a team from the tournament for continued wrongdoing is similar to developer scandals involving item creation. You clearly have a firm grasp on reality and are good with perspective. The point was that in both cases CCP failed to treat alliances equally. t20 created valuable items, you prevented people from getting them and destroyed the Alliance Tournament. You clearly antagonized Hydra and 0utbreak while giving a freepass to RvB and PL. The rules clearly state that 'B' and 'C' can be disqualified, but say nothing about 'A' teams. Considering their actions last year, I'm not surprised that this rule was applied, but it only allows you to disqualify ONE of the teams, like you did with PL and Waffles. Trying to troll paying customers is generally a bad idea as CCP should have learned last summer, so I suggest you stop it. Trying to rules lawyers you're way into the clear is outright ludicrous, since this is EVE and you're arguing with real lawyers. Right now you're just undoing all the hard work CCP has done to redeem it's horrible reputation. Instead of stonewalling you should admit your mistake, step down and let Hydra participate.
The only thing destroying this tournament is people having to read the same regurgitated post in this forum over and over again. I'm sorry you feel applying the rules as we said we would destroys CCP's reputation but I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:30:00 -
[50] - Quote
ScoRpS wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:ScoRpS wrote:Sreegs since you're the only one responding, which i guess i am greatful for can you clarify that we will be ok to apply again next year or will the AT team be as strident and underhanded again in opposition to our participation? I'm going to worry about that next year. Right now I have this year's tournament to worry about. If that were actually true you wouldn't be here now responding. Can you answer the question again properly please?
You got your answer and quoted it. It's the only one you're getting. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:31:00 -
[51] - Quote
iLLeLogicaL wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:DeBingJos wrote:Time Funnel wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: Thank you for telling me why I do what I do. They are cheats because they were cheating which is why they won't be in this year's tournament as explained in two sticky posts in this very forum.
And there you have it. They were cheating and that is why they were banned. Since the rule changes what they did last year is "no longer ok". Do you guys still want to argue about who said what and whatever? A stupid monkey with a learning disability could see they were cheating. Nobody wanted to say it. If they were cheating, then why did they win AT9 instead of being disqualified?? Everything they did at AT9 was within the rules. They weren't kicked out last year good thing I didn't say they were cheating then. What's different? They're both the sole A-teams of their respective alliances. They just spar together for the sake of convenience
the difference is that last year was last year? Do I really have to say this? "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:33:00 -
[52] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Karbox Delacroix wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Karbox Delacroix wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:
I'm not a psychic and neither are you.
Actually, yes you are, or at least you are claiming to be. You are claiming this because you seem to be stating that because they trained together, YOU KNOW FOR A FACT, that they intended to collude together during the ATX(*) and possibly throw matches like the final ATIX. So yes, you are claiming a motivation that is inside the mind of the individuals. You would have to be psychic to know that they were intending to collude together because they were sparring together. No but what I do know is what they did last year and it won't be happening again now. You're welcome. This only feeds the paranoids who will site this as proof of bias and that some were looking for a pretext to exclude Hydra and Outbreak. if you say so As you say, you know what happened last year and it won't be happening this year. You are using their actions last year, cooperation to infer that they meant the same thing this year. The question of bias comes from the weighting of evidence. We know that PL and Waffles cooperate all the darn time. But even though their history of cooperation, same CEO for both organizations, their attempt to enter two teams was not seen as a grave offense. Why? Because they did not throw the final match of ATIX. DekCo, the Alliance of Alliances is also famed for working together. In response to your edit: You need a pretext if you want to claim to be working within the published rules. Another option one could take would be to state that CCP retains the right to determine what makes a good AT and the inclusion of certain Alliances a bad AT, ipso fact, these following alliances will not be included. Problem solved.
I don't need a pretext I already told you this. Insisting that I do doesn't make it so. I don't need to rewrite the rules because we're doing A OK enforcing the ones we have thanks. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:34:00 -
[53] - Quote
Suleiman Shouaa wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:The response they got didn't ok what they did nor did they say what they were doing in the email making both irrelevant but I already explained this. Now I know why there are canned responses this is getting tiring. Can you please tell me why you didn't respond to them? Also I would like your phone/Skype/MSN messenger details in case it turns out that you refuse to respond to any emails I might send in the future regarding the AT? And by you I mean the entire CCP team in charge of the alliance tournament (not singling you out in particular just because the others have slithered away..). Thanks!
yeah let me get right on that "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:41:00 -
[54] - Quote
Intigo wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Intigo wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:No but what I do know is what they did last year and it won't be happening again now. You're welcome. That's a great way to run a tournament. Ban teams this year based on what they did last year when the ruleset was entirely different. The more you reply the more obvious it gets that banning HYDRA & Outbreak is entirely because of a grudge held by CCP. The Alliance Tournament team ignores all emails sent to them and you create a ruleset so vague that you can fit it to your needs as you go. CVA & 4th intended to do the very same thing that HYDRA & Outbreak did because they were practicing in a wormhole too - you still have yet to address that at all. The fact that CVA & 4th felt that this was within the rules (just as we did) is a testimony to how insane it is that you ban HYDRA & Outbreak over doing it. I know it suits your desire to be martyrs to keep pretending there's some grudge but as I said you have yourself, well really your leaders to blame and absolutely nobody else. I'm sorry accepting responsibility for your own actions that we didn't make you do is so difficult but at some point you're going to have to come to grips with you. And again you completely ignore the point. You have yet to address that CVA & 4th considered doing the very same thing just prior to HYDRA & Outbreak getting banned. How is that NOT proof that your ruleset is insanely vague and a pretty good indication that banning 2 teams outright over it is unjustly harsh? HYDRA & Outbreak were not trying to hide that we practiced together in a single corporation because we thought it was well within the rules just like CVA would have thought. Why should I blame the HYDRA leaders that asked the Alliance Tournament team for clarification (and were ignored multiple times) and thought they were acting within the rules? How can you not see that the fact that 2 other teams considered doing the very same thing well within the rules is an indication of how terribly vague that rule is? And that banning 2 teams over it is insane when you have made no attempts to COMMUNICATE, CLARIFY or WARN them prior to it happening. This could have happened to CVA & 4th (if, of course, you are consistent about rules being applied to all teams) just as well as HYDRA & Outbreak if they had just done it a bit earlier. Or would the rules have been applied differently because they didn't annoy you during AT IX? After all, it appears earlier that HYDRA & Outbreak were banned entirely because of what happened in AT IX.
I know you want to pretend there's no point because it's convenient. Frankly I'm not going to waste any more time trying to explain things to you. If you or your alliance continue to spam this subforum you will lose your posting privileges and that should be about that. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:41:00 -
[55] - Quote
ScoRpS wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:ScoRpS wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:ScoRpS wrote:Sreegs since you're the only one responding, which i guess i am greatful for can you clarify that we will be ok to apply again next year or will the AT team be as strident and underhanded again in opposition to our participation? I'm going to worry about that next year. Right now I have this year's tournament to worry about. If that were actually true you wouldn't be here now responding. Can you answer the question again properly please? You got your answer and quoted it. It's the only one you're getting. We know it's over this year so now the question is what about next year? or is this game of smoke and mirrors going to continue? Stomping your feet and demanding an answer isn't going to get you one. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1434
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:43:00 -
[56] - Quote
iLLeLogicaL wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:iLLeLogicaL wrote: What's different? They're both the sole A-teams of their respective alliances. They just spar together for the sake of convenience
the difference is that last year was last year? Do I really have to say this? Still don't see how they broke a "rule" if you cannot provide any proof of their malicious intent. They just trained together in one wh, against each other. Because you can't get crap for fights on sisi. And next time proof read, because you didn't include the "rule", the one and only, in the full rule list of the devblog. It's not in there, it's above there. But you did update all the other rules properly... Done on purpose for an entierly different reason? Quote:Next week we will be going into more detail about how you can participate in the random draw and how to apply for an auction spot. Today we want to look at tournament rules and what we wanted to achieve with these. While a full listing is available below for your perusal, and will be updated on the new Alliance Tournament page next week, we would like to take a moment and highlight some of the important changes:
We are increasing the number of ships you can field in the qualifying rounds from five to six. We are increasing the number of ships you can field in the final two weekends from 10 to 12. Match times have been reduced from 15 minutes to 10 minutes. We will be actively removing those alliances that try and add a GÇÿBGÇÖ or GÇÿCGÇÖ team. We want everyone to have a fair chance but stacking the deck in this manner will not be permitted. This removal will also include the main alliance if we detect anyone trying to field more than one team. Ship point values have been changed with some ships going down in cost. Alliance Tournament referees can now call a match null and void or declare a result if they feel a team is not competing or throwing a game. This will be entirely at the discretion of the tournament referees. These are some of the main rule changes which we feel will add to the overall betterment of Alliance Tournament. Below is the full rule list for your information.
Match Rules
Tournament Rules
This is a three stage tournament, with 64 alliances allowed to enter. There will be two pre-qualifying rounds, followed by a 32 team group stage and a 16 team final day. All competing pilots must have been members of the alliance for which they are competing, and be a member of that Alliance by downtime on May, 05, 2012. All alliance members are eligible to compete in any match in which their alliance is taking part, subject to all applicable rules; teams do not have to remain the same between games. To ensure that all Alliances get a fair opportunity to participate we will be checking on team entries and will disqualify teams who we consider to be GÇÿBGÇÖ or GÇÿCGÇÖ teams for bigger Alliances.
I get it. You're not going to get it. Enough. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1435
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:56:00 -
[57] - Quote
penifSMASH wrote:Sreegs, I think you are doing a great job handling ATX and responding to these myriad of troll questions. Keep up the good work.
I'm demanding overtime! "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
1175
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Posted - 2012.05.26 16:15:00 -
[58] - Quote
Sahjahn wrote:Apparantly you're not allowed to state how useless you feel certain members of CCP staff are.
Strange you'd think as paying customers you would be entitled to such opinions and able to air them.
You think that's strange? I'm not really familiar with any games that would let people abuse staff members just because they're customers. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1435
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Posted - 2012.05.26 16:21:00 -
[59] - Quote
DA Cassel wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:Sahjahn wrote:Apparantly you're not allowed to state how useless you feel certain members of CCP staff are.
Strange you'd think as paying customers you would be entitled to such opinions and able to air them. You think that's strange? I'm not really familiar with any games that would let people abuse staff members just because they're customers. Have you read what Shreegs says about everybody here?
No please tell me what I said about everybody here. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1435
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Posted - 2012.05.26 16:22:00 -
[60] - Quote
Intigo wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:Sahjahn wrote:Apparantly you're not allowed to state how useless you feel certain members of CCP staff are.
Strange you'd think as paying customers you would be entitled to such opinions and able to air them. You think that's strange? I'm not really familiar with any games that would let people abuse staff members just because they're customers. Hi Soundwave, one of my many Danish brethren! Do you know why all emails sent in an attempt to communicate and get clarification from the Alliance Tournament team by Garmon were completely ignored while the RvB ones were handled without issue and a compromise was made? Alternatively, what do you think about the fact that HYDRA & Outbreak were banned over something that 2 other teams considered doing thinking it was well within the rules (just as HYDRA & Outbreak did)?
wow "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1351
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Posted - 2012.05.26 21:57:00 -
[61] - Quote
As the discussion runs in circles with all the arguments exchanged, there is nothing much more constructive to add and thus I lock this thread.
As reminder I would like to point to the following official statements: Devblog about Alliance Tournament X Rules Teams removed from Competition Clarification on Hydra/Outbreak and the GM response
CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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