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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 61 post(s) |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
48
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Posted - 2012.05.25 05:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Stewwhich wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:spookydonut wrote:Maybe you should have taken their warnings seriously and only entered one team. Solid advice right there. You know what would be sound advice? Trying to bring some consistency to CCP. For example, CCP pretty much said that they worked with excutors of RvB in order to facilitate the Alliance Tournament entry for them. Why did you not provide the same courtesy to Hydra and Outbreak? Did you even send correspondence to them asking them to stop combined training? Considering that you already set precedence with RvB and that one of your own employees answered Hydra's petition regarding unified training you should rescind the ban and work out the issue with executors of Hydra / Outbreak. Otherwise you look like petulant children stomping their feet and saying "But I don't wanna have them in ATX, they gave me a booboo last year".
This really. Just when CCP seemed able to avoid massive PR clusterfucks for a while...
DurrHurrDurr wrote:
The TEST and GSF teams practice together, and share setups/fits/tactics. Are we going to be banned from participating as well?
Oh yeah, and lol double standards. So blatant. |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
49
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Posted - 2012.05.25 12:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Spyker Slater wrote:Let me start by saying I was very mad after the final last year. But I think maybe a compromise CCP could do is to let them compete as one alliance as is the case with RvB?
This would be a decent compromise, to forcibly join last years "one team" as with the precedent they've now set with RvB.
Just cutting both alliances out of the tourney because of their grudge about "BAD TV" last year doesn't make the AT Team look that good as people or representatives of their company...
MadbaM wrote: OK so I'v skim read this thread and forgive me if I'm going to ask a question that's already been answered.
I know there argument is that there two individual teams and this doesn't really apply to there argument, but they have been banned under Rule 5. To ensure that all Alliances get a fair opportunity to participate we will be checking on team entries and will disqualify teams who we consider to be 'B' or 'C' teams for bigger Alliances.
If they have banned both teams who is the supposed 'A' team? because as far as I can see they shouldn't have banned both only the B or C entry's.
I'm sure you'l let me know if I'm wrong on this.
And yeah I too am confused about this |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
50
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Posted - 2012.05.25 13:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Evelgrivion wrote:This is certainly one of the most vindictive exchanges I've ever read from this community. Come on guys, you can, and should be, better than this. Regarding the issue in question, in no uncertain terms, Hydra and Outbreak worked together to a degree that could be considered collusion and thus by letter of the law, absolutely should be barred from competing together. However, where it gets messy is the correspondence of the Game Masters. A Senior Game Master, an individual who is, reputedly, one of the highest authorities available to the playerbase for questions and concerns, said that what Hydra and Outbreak were doing, practicing together in the same system on the test server, was okay. Acting on good faith that what a Senior Game Master tells a player is true and accurate, Hydra and Outbreak went ahead and performed what was, by the rules of the tournament organizers, against the rules of Alliance Tournament X participation, and thus were banned from competition. Thus far, no opportunity for a dialogue between CCP and the banned parties has been publicly granted. Do the Game Masters have reliable authority in Eve Online, or do they not? Can we, as players, take Game Masters at their word, and can we act in good faith that what a Game Master tells us is true, accurate, and reliable? The Game Masters are the front of customer service between the game's developers as operators of the online environment and the customer base; if we cannot trust that anything a game master tells a player will not be overridden by other employees at CCP, there is a horrific problem with the customer service aspect of the Eve Online service that should be addressed immediately. The ability for CCP's Game Masters to serve as a reliable source of information and advice to the player base has been substantially undermined by this incident.
Kaeda Maxwell wrote:First of all;
I'm sorry to see you leave Leeloo. I really appreciated what you did with the 'Daily Roams' and EVE will be a less awesome place without you around. Thank you for the effort you put into those roams. I understand your sentiment very well however. Good luck in whatever you end up playing after EVE.
To CCP;
I used to be somebody that would defend most of your decisions to my corp mates and the larger community when they came up. Your failure to step over your own shadows here has changed my attitude away from this and it saddens me.
You profess that you wanted to make the AT more fun and better for everyone. Well, I can't speak for others but you ruined AT X for me at least. Whatever the outcome now it will forever be 'tainted' because the defending champions weren't there to defend their title. Also if you truly view Hydra & Outbreak as the same entity you should have allowed them the same thing you allowed RvB. If nothing else this decision wouldn't have looked so much like you're being petty about last years finals then.
2 very good posts. |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
51
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Posted - 2012.05.25 14:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Boz Wel wrote:Pallidum Treponema wrote:In addition to my post, the following quote from CCP Loxy regarding RvB highlights my point: Quote:We have been in contact with the executor of both alliances and have reached a decision that will allow both sides to compete together. This clearly indicates that the ATX team contacted the RvB alliances regarding concerns that both teams were considered to be one entity. That they failed to do so regarding Hydra and 0utbreak, despite requests from Hydra and 0utbreak for clarification, suggest that the ATX team either made a huge mistake in their correspondence with the teams, for which they rightfully should make amends and speak to both teams in order to reach a compromise, OR intentionally failed to respond to the concerns, with implications that are far worse. I tend to agree. It's not hard to answer your emails in a timely fashion CCP and actually for the most part your company as a whole is great about customer service. As such, it's really difficult to believe that you just couldn't find any time to get back to these guys with an answer to their multiple attempts to contact you and/or give them a warning before taking steps to ban them from this year's tournament. As it is, your alliance tournament team completely fell down on the job when it came to responding to these guys, and to give such an extreme punishment after you failed to respond to their queries is uncalled for. Even if you agree that what they were doing was against the plain language or the spirit of the tournament rules, it's unprofessional to act in this fashion. Give them a warning, let them merge their teams, and move on with the tournament. As it is, the alliance tournament team at CCP appears dysfunctional at best, and vindictive and petty at worst. Be the bigger man here CCP, back off your decision and let them enter a single team, and the tournament will be better for it.
This. |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
51
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Posted - 2012.05.25 15:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Raqn Paudeen wrote:
My question to the AT team is this.
If you have been paying so much attention to HYDRA and what they have been doing, how did you overlook all the messages they sent to you? The whole thing seems a bit.. fishy, and honestly its a **** start to the AT.
...To say the least. |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
51
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Posted - 2012.05.25 16:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hecater wrote:Quote:It's ok - CCP has started deleting posts now. Excellent work. dont be afraid dear CCP dudes this shiet will definetely reach certain media and i am also trying to contact Sony atm.
good
Just in case you missed it, compare:
http://eve-search.com/thread/113251-1
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=113251 |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
52
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Posted - 2012.05.26 06:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:CFC is a coalition not an alliance so of course they have multiple teams
Yeah, *of course* - and being TQ allies they would never share fittings or conspire to metagame together in any way, right?
Karbox Delacroix wrote:That CCP trumpets how their poor permission system led to a spy disbanding an entire alliance while simultaneously decrying the meta-game in ATX(*) is simply silly.
Live by the SPA! die by the SPAI.
* Let ATX forever be known as ATX(*). Let the winner of ATX(*) be known as the winner(*) of ATX(*).
Indeed, this
Michael Harari wrote:Zo'ha wrote:If you were in the same position and didn't get a response would you just assume you could do what you wanted?
Personally, if I was investing the amount of time they are purporting to I would err on the side of caution, would you not? Obviously they knew that the GM response wasnt sufficient, so they emailed the AT organizers several times. No response. I would go with the only thing I heard from a staff member of CCP.
And this. |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
52
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Posted - 2012.05.26 07:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gobbins wrote:I think CCP has been engaging in a completely new stance of community management.
The old days of "bro CCP" are gone and their new focus is on wider PR.
They have learned that individual alliances can be unfairly punished without that generating too much of a fuss: see the shitcanning of Mittens for example, other bans before that, and today this low blow they did on hydra.
I imagine they want to send a clear message: "mess with our public events (fanfest panel for mittens, AT finals for hydra) and consequences will never be the same" ; since they cannot control what players will do in a live event, and eve is full of trolls, their only way to deal with the problem is to make an example and hope it will act as a deterrent
This is a good post worth repeating btw. If you don't like the "new CCP" you should voice it ("New CCP" has masqueraded as something else after last summer shitstorms but here we see the make up failing) |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
53
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Posted - 2012.05.26 10:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote: because a god damn drooling ****** lobotomized downs syndrome patient would have seen your ban coming a mile off.
Ah, a show of character, nice. You're kind of special, aren't you?
And no, I'm not particularly mad. I was never going to be a big part of the team this year. To me this is more a question of "FFS will the CCP Goon get away with *ANYTHING*?"
Killer Gandry wrote:
Let's put it blatantly clear.
CCP screwed up here big time. A simple communication effort of them would have resolved the whole matter easy. But like a little kid which still had a grudgematch open for last years AT they didn't bother and smashed their toys in anger and took it out on those bad bad Hydra / Outbreak people.
A Heretic spokesman keeps saying here how well deserved that was but the underlying message is actually " Damn lucky we got rid of 2 very impressive teams which makes it easier for us" Where the Goon brosefs stance is was already clear, no need to waste any words on them.
There are so many solutions which would have been way more elegant or diplomatic but CCP chose to take none of those solutions. They stomp their feet, break their own rules to get the message through because ofcourse they can break them at a whim and reinforce them in the same breath again. We call that childish behaviour where we enforce a rule which only the rulemaker can break.
And the best part is that talking about it get's either made impossible by locks or simply ignoring people up to post deletion and even singlesided rule enforcement.
...And yes, this is quite clear. |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
56
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Posted - 2012.05.26 11:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kyang Tia wrote:I really dno't want to get into this discussion, since it is getting inceasingly pointless.
Just one thing: Hydra and Outbreak members, you have my highest respect for being among the best PvPers in this game. You may have screwed up the finals of AT9, but then again, the whole tourney before that would not have been half as entertaining without you. Without the best, AT10 is probably going to be a somewhat boring affair. You will be missed. Fly safe.
o7 and thanks.
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Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
56
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Posted - 2012.05.26 11:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Edenmain wrote:
Fair enough, but CCP.... Don'y you dare refer to EVE as a sandbox ever again, because it's clearly not... Well at least one that's raked flat by you whenever you feel the need.
The alliance tournament has never been a sandbox and by nature never will or can be. We make rules that specifically make it not a sandbox. When those rules aren't followed we enforce them. I'm sorry if you're confusing The Alliance Tournament Rules with the overall premise of the spaceship videogame EVE Online, but the fact remains that the sandbox mentality has never applied to the tournament. Except perhaps when it is convenient to forum posters who are mad.
Sorry CCP Sreegs (I did promise to post less) but I'm quite fascinated by this new somethingawful.com version of CCP. "Tears", "spewing", "(U) mad" are a new sight from people basically trying to sell us their product... But it seems to suit you and the powers that be, carry on. |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
57
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Posted - 2012.05.26 12:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Klown Walk wrote:Why didn-Št anyone from the AT team respond to any email from them? or give them a warning instead of instantly removing them? hi you seem to have missed the part where the email was posted but wasn't actually what was going on so responding to that email wouldn't have changed a thing I hope this helps.
"I hope this helps" added to "drivel", "tears", "spewing", "(U) mad". Fascinating watching a "forum suicide" really. |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
59
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Posted - 2012.05.26 15:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ding feeble 20 page thread o/ |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
61
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Posted - 2012.05.26 16:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote: You think that's strange? I'm not really familiar with any games that would let people abuse staff members just because they're customers.
Oh some other CCPers reading, fascinating, so it's not just the Goon.
But yeah thread is full of gold after a brief browsing pause, and this:
carbomb wrote:
There were not rule in AT9 that got broken. You are wrongly accusing them of being cheats. If they had done the same in this years tournament then you would be correct in calling them cheats, however, they did not, so you cant. The fact that you "believed" they were going to is irrelevant really. You are punishing them for something they have not yet done.
CCP Sreegs wrote: None of those teams had a history of cheating using the exact same methods they were using again this year. Were we not to have to enforce these new rules a conversation with PL or RvB wouldn't have been necessary because those teams would have been in.
I hope this helps but it probably won't.
____
Yes, banning a team from the tournament for continued wrongdoing is similar to developer scandals involving item creation. You clearly have a firm grasp on reality and are good with perspective.
____
Thank you for telling me why I do what I do. They are cheats because they were cheating which is why they won't be in this year's tournament as explained in two sticky posts in this very forum.
So Hydra and OB didn't cheat last year, in CCP Sreegs' opinion? (Several different quotes merged due to the forum limit)
penifSMASH wrote:Sreegs, I think you are doing a great job handling ATX and responding to these myriad of troll questions. Keep up the good work.
Agreed |
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