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Eso Es
Li3's Electric Cucumber SpaceMonkey's Alliance
13
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Posted - 2012.05.25 16:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
Make your appearence in local on a cooldown timer. For example, new contacts appear in local after spending 30 seconds in HiSec local. So 30 seconds after entering a HiSec system, your name appears in local to anyone in system and anyone entering that system. Say 1 minute for Low Sec, (after spending 1 minute in said LowSec, ur name appears in the local list, and is immediately viewable to all people entering that system), and 1 minute 30 seconds in Null. At the same time make cloaky ships combat-probable (probeable?). Discuss.
Edit: Insert random lore here, HiSec has the most developed communications, but due to high traffic and inneficiency of the people running the system, your name isn't broadcast in local immediately, etc etc. |
Andrea Roche
State War Academy Caldari State
79
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 16:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
Trying to hunt a prey should not always produce a result. In the present system, people still get caught no matter what and people still do get away also. Working as intended. Going after pvers is not pvp, no matter how you try to convince yourself or others. This is not a flexible or negotiable term! The prey by going ratting or mining is puting themselves at risk. Otherwise people wouldnt die in the numbers as they do. People complain over af cloakers for like 3 years and nothing has been done about this. Dont expect local to change either any time soon cos its frantically a terrible idea. We do not need another like time dilation function. Learn to use dscan very well instad of relliying on probe scans! Finally remove NAP list from your corp and enjoy an incredibly rich target environment or shut up. Problem solved. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
158
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Posted - 2012.05.25 16:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ditra Vorthran wrote:There's been a lot of threads (or were before the Inventory Patch) calling for the removal of Local.
The question whether or not local should or shouldn't be removed isn't the real question. Removing local is merely one facet of a larger problem.
there have been more nerf herding anti cloak threads... and what do you know ..here's another one.
cloaking is not overpowered!
Charges on a cloaking device would make them worthless.. for tasks of recon where you have to fly solo 26 to 50 jumps just to get into place. Fuel has always been problematic for ships that depend on a cloaked return trip... the cargo hold on covert ops ships is diminutive at best.
You are forgetting a whole dimension of benefit to the "prey". They also benefit from the uncertainty generated by lack of free intel. They have the ability to cloak their defenses and lay wait.
Quote:(As an aside, I find it amusing that Predators scorn Prey for supposedly wanting to play a game virtually AFK with no risk of harm, then advocate the ability for one person to grief an entire star system for hours if not days at a time...while AFK, at no risk. But I digress.)
This is an often proffered falsehood. There is always a risk. I have lost cloaked vessels in the past.. if there was no risk this would never have happened. AFK means away from keyboard... not running quiet while at keyboard.. The afk are no threat to anyone.... and don't even effect the game if you don't know they are there. Penalizing everyone else because you don't like that there are a few people not at their keyboards is wrong!
Local removal that I would like to see is a graduated system where Empire largely stays the same as it is now. Low Sec removes only the cloaked from local (while not chatting it up) . Null Sec removes local for everyone unless they chat.. and finally WH space no local for anyone ... and if you chat there are no IDs on the message. none of these changes to local should effect any other channels. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Andrea Roche
State War Academy Caldari State
79
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Posted - 2012.05.25 17:04:00 -
[34] - Quote
Remove NAP and enjoy a target rich environment ! Maintain NAP and enjoy jumping a trillion gates! Easy solved! People still die and people also escape. Local works as intended. |
Snow Burst
nul-li-fy RED.OverLord
3
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Posted - 2012.05.25 17:11:00 -
[35] - Quote
so basicly your saying you want stealth bombers removed/nerfed to hell with covert ops cloak nerfed, wont ever happen considering a dev originally redesigned sb's completely |
Andrea Roche
State War Academy Caldari State
79
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
Snow Burst wrote:so basicly your saying you want stealth bombers removed/nerfed to hell with covert ops cloak nerfed, wont ever happen considering a dev originally redesigned sb's completely redisigned how it looks yes, not its functionality. The reason why they cant do much on covert ops is cos they could get even more OP when mixed with black ops (who are already op). |
Oxandrolone
Bite Me inc Exhale.
37
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Posted - 2012.05.25 17:15:00 -
[37] - Quote
stop being so ridiculous that a cloaky cov-ops means you cant do anything in system. try living in a wormhole, you got no idea whats out there.
removal of local in NS would be a great thing, they would actually have to watch the gates etc if they want to use the system for farming or something.
now if anyone neutral comes in system they instantly run to their pos and sit there. if you cloak in the system they produce epic tears about how they cant bear with 1 neutral in system. |
Andrea Roche
State War Academy Caldari State
79
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 17:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
Oxandrolone wrote:stop being so ridiculous that a cloaky cov-ops means you cant do anything in system. try living in a wormhole, you got no idea whats out there.
removal of local in NS would be a great thing, they would actually have to watch the gates etc if they want to use the system for farming or something.
now if anyone neutral comes in system they instantly run to their pos and sit there. if you cloak in the system they produce epic tears about how they cant bear with 1 neutral in system.
no is not. cos you can logoff in system and relog an noone will ever know cos when you relog you can cloak instantly. So nobody will know you are even in system specailly since there is no local. |
Snow Burst
nul-li-fy RED.OverLord
3
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Posted - 2012.05.25 18:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
Andrea Roche wrote:Snow Burst wrote:so basicly your saying you want stealth bombers removed/nerfed to hell with covert ops cloak nerfed, wont ever happen considering a dev originally redesigned sb's completely redisigned how it looks yes, not its functionality. The reason why they cant do much on covert ops is cos they could get even more OP when mixed with black ops (who are already op). think youll find they completely had a rework a while ago |
Snow Burst
nul-li-fy RED.OverLord
3
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Posted - 2012.05.25 18:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
Oxandrolone wrote:stop being so ridiculous that a cloaky cov-ops means you cant do anything in system. try living in a wormhole, you got no idea whats out there.
removal of local in NS would be a great thing, they would actually have to watch the gates etc if they want to use the system for farming or something.
now if anyone neutral comes in system they instantly run to their pos and sit there. if you cloak in the system they produce epic tears about how they cant bear with 1 neutral in system. dno what null sec ure thinking of but we dont |
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Ditra Vorthran
State War Academy Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.05.25 20:23:00 -
[41] - Quote
Quote:Charges on a cloaking device would make them worthless..for tasks of recon where you have to fly solo 26 to 50 jumps just to get into place. Fuel has always been problematic for ships that depend on a cloaked return trip... the cargo hold on covert ops ships is diminutive at best.
Don't assume everthing would stay the same as they are right now. Cargo holds and fuel sized could be tinkered with to match the new reality.
Quote:You are forgetting a whole dimension of benefit to the "prey". They also benefit from the uncertainty generated by lack of free intel. They have the ability to cloak their defenses and lay wait.
Actually, that's precisely the problem. Currently everyone knows almost everything. Instantly. Let's try to add in some uncertainty in this equasion
Quote:The afk are no threat to anyone.... and don't even effect the game if you don't know they are there.
Okay, this response is as stupid as it is incorrect. You cannot prove that a person in Local and cloaked is afk or not. You can't. That means that Prey must assume for their own safety that the 'afk-cloaker' is not afk. It follows then that there is no such thing as an 'afk-cloaker', as all cloakers are assumed to be at the keyboard, and therefore a threat. A threat that has no counter. |
Ditra Vorthran
State War Academy Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.05.25 20:26:00 -
[42] - Quote
Some great thoughts and criticisms so far, and not nearly as much flaming as I expected.
An amendment based on the criticism:
Make scanning probes able to give ship types regardless of scan strength. Or make it dependent on skill. A pilot with basic scanning skills gets ship types at 70% resolution say, and someone with advanced scanning skills sees them at 40%. This gives you more of a local-like ability but have it still require user input.
The early warning system would also increase a ships signature radius, making it easier (i.e. less time) to locate.
Remove D-Scan as a mechanic (just in case that wasn't clear earlier)
Finally, let's stay on topic here. This thread isn't intended to be a 'should we remove local' thread. Instead, let's proceed under the presumption that CCP has announced that they are removing local and are looking for ideas on what to replace it with.
I think it can be agreed on that WH space is a good example that Local is not a requirement for Eve, and that its removal is not detrimental. What merely needs to be answered is, what replaces Local once it is removed? |
Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
64
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Posted - 2012.05.25 20:33:00 -
[43] - Quote
sounds like someone got butt hurt with no lube. Do not worry blood is an all natural lubricant. and whining about the removal of local if you hate so much go live in a Worm Hole |
Snow Burst
nul-li-fy RED.OverLord
3
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Posted - 2012.05.25 20:37:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:sounds like someone got butt hurt with no lube. Do not worry blood is an all natural lubricant. and whining about the removal of local if you hate so much go live in a Worm Hole agreed to the fullest amount possible there lol There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way.-áOr By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3 |
Andrea Roche
State War Academy Caldari State
81
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:46:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ditra Vorthran wrote: I think it can be agreed on that WH space is a good example that Local is not a requirement for Eve, and that its removal is not detrimental. What merely needs to be answered is, what replaces Local once it is removed?
You cant say that. Wh space is far less travelled and harder to find than a normal system. For starters you need to scan like crazy with so many signatures. Wh is far more safer than any 0.0 system by a looooong shot. There is simply no comparison. If you want no local, go to wh. People still die on daily basis all around 0.0. As far as i am concerned, local works as intended. Besides how are you suppose to see them if they logon in your system and they insta cloak? You will never know they are there since you never saw them jumping through a gate. This whole idea is nonsence, has too many exploits and belongs in the bin along with all the other bad ideas. |
Lord Zim
699
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
If nullsec is safer than hisec, and wormholes are safer than nullsec, just how safe does that make wormholes on the WoW-o-meter? |
Snow Burst
nul-li-fy RED.OverLord
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:48:00 -
[47] - Quote
Andrea Roche wrote:Ditra Vorthran wrote: I think it can be agreed on that WH space is a good example that Local is not a requirement for Eve, and that its removal is not detrimental. What merely needs to be answered is, what replaces Local once it is removed?
You cant say that. Wh space is far less travelled and harder to find than a normal system. For starters you need to scan like crazy with so many signatures. Wh is far more safer than any 0.0 system by a looooong shot. There is simply no comparison. If you want no local, go to wh. People still die on daily basis all around 0.0. As far as i am concerned, local works as intended. Besides how are you suppose to see them if they logon in your system and they insta cloak? YOu will never know they are there since you never saw thm jumping through a gate. This whole idea is nonsence and belongs in the bin along with all the other bad ideas. agreed it would if anything dappen kills in null taking local away because you would have to have scouts probeing all the time to know someone there on defence side n have to probe every time as offense which takes 1 ship out of fighting There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way.-áOr By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3 |
Snow Burst
nul-li-fy RED.OverLord
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:49:00 -
[48] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:If nullsec is safer than hisec, and wormholes are safer than nullsec, just how safe does that make wormholes on the WoW-o-meter? WH's are quiet depending on the ones you go to, null sec is usually allways hot and high sec is just a "tutorial island" so to speak its damn hard to die in high lol There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way.-áOr By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3 |
Andrea Roche
State War Academy Caldari State
81
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:51:00 -
[49] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:If nullsec is safer than hisec, and wormholes are safer than nullsec, just how safe does that make wormholes on the WoW-o-meter?
you know damn well you cant even compare it. How often do you hear someone snatches a wh from another? Now how often do you see someone snatching a system from another. Its so off the scale that you cant compare them. Thats even without mentioning sov module, reinforcement etc... To compare these, its just a troll with a bad taste |
Snow Burst
nul-li-fy RED.OverLord
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 22:53:00 -
[50] - Quote
Andrea Roche wrote:Lord Zim wrote:If nullsec is safer than hisec, and wormholes are safer than nullsec, just how safe does that make wormholes on the WoW-o-meter? you know damn well you cant even compare it. How often do you hear someone snatches a wh from another? Now how often do you see someone snatching a system from another. Its so off the scale that you cant compare them. Thats even without mentioning sov module, reinforcement etc... To compare these, its just a a troll with a bad taste +1 There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way.-áOr By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3 |
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Andrea Roche
State War Academy Caldari State
81
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 23:03:00 -
[51] - Quote
Snow Burst wrote:Andrea Roche wrote:Ditra Vorthran wrote: I think it can be agreed on that WH space is a good example that Local is not a requirement for Eve, and that its removal is not detrimental. What merely needs to be answered is, what replaces Local once it is removed?
You cant say that. Wh space is far less travelled and harder to find than a normal system. For starters you need to scan like crazy with so many signatures. Wh is far more safer than any 0.0 system by a looooong shot. There is simply no comparison. If you want no local, go to wh. People still die on daily basis all around 0.0. As far as i am concerned, local works as intended. Besides how are you suppose to see them if they logon in your system and they insta cloak? YOu will never know they are there since you never saw thm jumping through a gate. This whole idea is nonsence and belongs in the bin along with all the other bad ideas. agreed it would if anything dappen kills in null taking local away because you would have to have scouts probeing all the time to know someone there on defence side n have to probe every time as offense which takes 1 ship out of fighting
no. you simply cant probe them, you cant see them, you cant scan them cos they a cloaked. Its just afk cloak on a Super OP level. If th cloaker was already in system, then you will never know he is there. He can even logoff and relog and you still wont know cos he can insta cloak. |
Snow Burst
RED.OverLord
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 23:16:00 -
[52] - Quote
Andrea Roche wrote:Snow Burst wrote:Andrea Roche wrote:Ditra Vorthran wrote: I think it can be agreed on that WH space is a good example that Local is not a requirement for Eve, and that its removal is not detrimental. What merely needs to be answered is, what replaces Local once it is removed?
You cant say that. Wh space is far less travelled and harder to find than a normal system. For starters you need to scan like crazy with so many signatures. Wh is far more safer than any 0.0 system by a looooong shot. There is simply no comparison. If you want no local, go to wh. People still die on daily basis all around 0.0. As far as i am concerned, local works as intended. Besides how are you suppose to see them if they logon in your system and they insta cloak? YOu will never know they are there since you never saw thm jumping through a gate. This whole idea is nonsence and belongs in the bin along with all the other bad ideas. agreed it would if anything dappen kills in null taking local away because you would have to have scouts probeing all the time to know someone there on defence side n have to probe every time as offense which takes 1 ship out of fighting no. you simply cant probe them, you cant see them, you cant scan them cos they a cloaked. Its just afk cloak on a Super OP level. If th cloaker was already in system, then you will never know he is there. He can even logoff and relog and you still wont know cos he can insta cloak. ah, hence why local removal would be such a **** move tbh There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way.-áOr By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
878
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 23:18:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:sounds like someone got butt hurt with no lube. Do not worry blood is an all natural lubricant. and whining about the removal of local if you hate so much go live in a Worm Hole Heh ^___^ What about ore canflipped from a miner? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Snow Burst
RED.OverLord
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 23:19:00 -
[54] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Ziranda Hakuli wrote:sounds like someone got butt hurt with no lube. Do not worry blood is an all natural lubricant. and whining about the removal of local if you hate so much go live in a Worm Hole Heh ^___^ What about ore canflipped from a miner? rofl can flipping is so laborious but ******* hilarious when someone falls for it There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way.-áOr By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3 |
Andrea Roche
State War Academy Caldari State
81
|
Posted - 2012.05.25 23:20:00 -
[55] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Ziranda Hakuli wrote:sounds like someone got butt hurt with no lube. Do not worry blood is an all natural lubricant. and whining about the removal of local if you hate so much go live in a Worm Hole Heh ^___^ What about ore canflipped from a miner?
i must admit, i have never +1 a goon before. Here you go!
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Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
747
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Posted - 2012.05.26 02:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
Aerich e'Kieron wrote:Quote: If you remove local, less people will go to null sec, the people you prey on. Less people will be 'out and about' doing their day to day stuff. PvP will be harder and take longer to find.
and this Quote: Formup an 6-10 man roaming gang to go hunting for another 6-10 man roaming gang. Every system you go into, you need to drop probes.
Explain to me please, how that is -not- incentive for the "prey" to be there. There are other points to be made in regards to a removed local, but do I even have to explain how that isn't logical? It's too good. In fact, it's so good that it is of detriment to both parties. The prey know too soon and easily of a threat. And thus they are able to warp off, cloak, dock, whatever. The predators know too soon and easily that a potential target is in system. And thus can relatively quickly make their way through many systems in search of the prey. Regardless of your opinion on a potential solution for this, can we not agree that the situation as-is, is not ideal? And that both the hunter and the hunted will need to give up some of the functionality of this in order facilitate a better system? The proper solution to this will inherently have pros and cons for both types of people involved. You can spot the eventualities of the system as it is. It's no wonder people complain about afk-cloakers, and it's no wonder people complain about local being overpowered. -People using the system want security, and local chat gives them that. So much so, that they can effectively reason it's better to not bother ratting or mining while some unknown threat is in system. -The afk-cloakers are a counter to the powerful ability of local chat. The outcome ends in a stalemate that no-one enjoys. Unfortunately, both parties will need to relinquish something in order for things to improve. "Prey" will need to cope with a system that is not as reliable and will need to take more risk in their activities. "Predators" will have to deal with a far greater amount of time spent in search of the "prey". Basically, removing local can potentially work. Although some kinks with the abilities of covert ops combats ships may need to be hammered out. ALSO, you can use this measure to figure out what type of player a person is based on their position on this issue!
The only solution is that local is delayed until you decloak.
That's really the best one. But the mentally challenged of EVE think removing it is a good idea, it's not. It's just bad and dumb.
A list of fixes for the new inventory
Dual Pane idea clicky |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
201
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 03:24:00 -
[57] - Quote
*DELETED FOR ERRORS* |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
201
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 03:26:00 -
[58] - Quote
Snow Burst wrote:Lord Zim wrote:If nullsec is safer than hisec, and wormholes are safer than nullsec, just how safe does that make wormholes on the WoW-o-meter? WH's are quiet depending on the ones you go to, null sec is usually allways hot and high sec is just a "tutorial island" so to speak its damn hard to die in high lol
The vast majority of ship deaths occur in high. LOL.
You are an idiot. |
Snow Burst
RED.OverLord
6
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Posted - 2012.05.26 03:35:00 -
[59] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Snow Burst wrote:Lord Zim wrote:If nullsec is safer than hisec, and wormholes are safer than nullsec, just how safe does that make wormholes on the WoW-o-meter? WH's are quiet depending on the ones you go to, null sec is usually allways hot and high sec is just a "tutorial island" so to speak its damn hard to die in high lol The vast majority of ship deaths occur in high. LOL. You are an idiot. only cuz of ******** idiots. if you know what your doing high is safe. you obv die in high if you think its dangerous. also interesting employment history... never been in a corp and therefore never been in nullsec properly... n if your commenting on an alt then thats pretty stupid making bold comments on an alt There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way.-áOr By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3 |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
885
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 03:46:00 -
[60] - Quote
Snow Burst wrote:only cuz of ******** idiots. if you know what your doing high is safe. you obv die in high if you think its dangerous. also interesting employment history... never been in a corp and therefore never been in nullsec properly... n if your commenting on an alt then thats pretty stupid making bold comments on an alt Forum alts are the thing nowadays. You can be a XXYY without having to prove it because your 2012 NPC corp alt is all the proof you need ! Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
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