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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
N Solarz
Caldari Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2009.07.30 04:31:00 -
[1]
So there was a lot of discussion in the "identifying problems" thread about how assault ships needed some sort of boost, specificly by recieving the 2nd t2 bonus they are missing. since then, nothing has come up about them from devs or players. They still need attention somehow. any ideas/comments/concerns?
i think the 2nd bonus should be related to the gank factor of the ship
Ishkur: 5% drone damage/hp per level Enyo: 5% hybrid ROF per level
Harpy: 5% hybrid ROF per level Hawk: 5% Missle ROF per level
Retribution: 5% Laser ROF per level (as well as switching a low for a mid) Vengeance: 5% rocket ROF per level
Jaguar/wolf: 5% proj ROF per level
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ArcticPrism
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Posted - 2009.07.30 04:34:00 -
[2]
Edited by: ArcticPrism on 30/07/2009 04:35:19 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1053166&page=1
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.07.30 07:32:00 -
[3]
For the ishkur I would got for an extra bandwidth, so they can field 5 mediums at max level. ---------------------------------- None of yet! |
Benwah
Empire Arms Dealers
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Posted - 2009.07.30 07:48:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ydyp Ieva For the ishkur I would got for an extra bandwidth, so they can field 5 mediums at max level.
IIRC it used to be that way, but was changed to the 25 mb/sec we have now for 'balancing'
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Erdiere
Minmatar Erasers inc. Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.07.30 11:45:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Benwah
Originally by: Ydyp Ieva For the ishkur I would got for an extra bandwidth, so they can field 5 mediums at max level.
IIRC it used to be that way, but was changed to the 25 mb/sec we have now for 'balancing'
Sure, ishkurs having 5 medium drones out wouldn't be at all overpowered.
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Ydyp Ieva
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.07.30 12:00:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Erdiere
Originally by: Benwah
Originally by: Ydyp Ieva For the ishkur I would got for an extra bandwidth, so they can field 5 mediums at max level.
IIRC it used to be that way, but was changed to the 25 mb/sec we have now for 'balancing'
Sure, ishkurs having 5 medium drones out wouldn't be at all overpowered.
Same as ishtar having 5 heavies out
But now with the dmg changes on drones, so mediums don't hit frigates as hard as lights. I don't see this as overpowered anymore. And at this moment I found the ishkur the weakest of the assault ships I can fly (only minmatar I can't fly) ---------------------------------- None of yet! |
1600 RT
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Posted - 2009.07.30 12:28:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ydyp Ieva
Originally by: Erdiere
Originally by: Benwah
Originally by: Ydyp Ieva For the ishkur I would got for an extra bandwidth, so they can field 5 mediums at max level.
IIRC it used to be that way, but was changed to the 25 mb/sec we have now for 'balancing'
Sure, ishkurs having 5 medium drones out wouldn't be at all overpowered.
Same as ishtar having 5 heavies out
NERF ISHTAR !
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teoliit
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Posted - 2009.07.30 13:07:00 -
[8]
Give them a bonus that increases the effectiveness of rigs to conicide with the new small rigs
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Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
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Posted - 2009.09.10 07:00:00 -
[9]
I would love to see a built in role bonus to be immune to Nos and Nuets. As it stands, AF's are will die just as fast as a ceptor or frig when one neut is put on them. Immunity to neut and nos would give AF's a real advantage.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.09.10 07:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mire Stoude I would love to see a built in role bonus to be immune to Nos and Nuets. As it stands, AF's are will die just as fast as a ceptor or frig when one neut is put on them. Immunity to neut and nos would give AF's a real advantage.
That would be too much of an advantage though. I would settle for getting the missing T2 bonus.
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Karanth
Gallente Independent Fleet Dark Taboo
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Posted - 2009.09.10 09:55:00 -
[11]
Originally by: teoliit Give them a bonus that increases the effectiveness of rigs to conicide with the new small rigs
This here needs more attention.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
Sorry, no. You have to go into wormholes and get farmed by the new AI NPCs like everyone else...
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Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Tread Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.10 11:16:00 -
[12]
Yes we definitely need to buff T2 frigs even more to ensure that T1 frigs remain obsolete and pointless at a time when the latest fractional rig changes just balanced things up a bit.
/sarcasm
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Sith LordX
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Posted - 2009.09.10 21:30:00 -
[13]
Originally by: N Solarz So there was a lot of discussion in the "identifying problems" thread about how assault ships needed some sort of boost, specificly by recieving the 2nd t2 bonus they are missing. since then, nothing has come up about them from devs or players. They still need attention somehow. any ideas/comments/concerns?
i think the 2nd bonus should be related to the gank factor of the ship
Ishkur: 5% drone damage/hp per level Enyo: 5% hybrid ROF per level
Harpy: 5% hybrid ROF per level Hawk: 5% Missle ROF per level
Retribution: 5% Laser ROF per level (as well as switching a low for a mid) Vengeance: 5% rocket ROF per level
Jaguar/wolf: 5% proj ROF per level
Yeah this would finally close the gap. Why the hell don't they have a 4th bonus when every other T2 ship has one. They need a boost, it would be long overdue. Finally there is nolonger a huge gap between the lol DPS of frigates vs crusiers.
Remember CCP's words. Bigger isn't better, just different. And it would be nice to see frigates in line with other ships dps wise, for how fragile they are. A neut and some light drones is so overpowered agenst a frig, and people are just mad they won't beable to insta pop frigs anymore if they get boosted.
Its about time we got some dps that could break a BS's tank to shut them TFU for good. Make people fear frigs rather then lol at them.
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Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Tread Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.11 12:16:00 -
[14]
But against an AF with a nos and either a good tank or good dps (and most AFs have at least one or the other) a medium neut and a flight of unbonused light drones still won't stop the AF handing you your arse if you're in a mid sized ship, and that's one on one which isn't even the AF's intended role. Which seems to me as if they're fairly potent already.
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Schayol Sunkeeper
Imperial Crusade Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.09.11 12:52:00 -
[15]
Quote: Its about time we got some dps that could break a BS's tank to shut them TFU for good. Make people fear frigs rather then lol at them.
i hope this day never comes
frigs should not be able to scratch a battleships defence in the slightest
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2009.09.11 14:08:00 -
[16]
We have been playing around with the afterburner speed bonus suggested from the recent CSM meeting internally. The results are pretty promising in terms of giving you a ship with a low sig res and good speed able to close range on targets fast in a reasonably safe way and once in range to unleash hell. We felt this was a good alternative to messing with an already relative high damage output and multiple bonuses.
In combination with the small rigs, we were able to come up with some pretty awesome setups with for example even the often lambasted retribution, we were zipping around at 1.5km/s with a 400mm plate and around 8k EHP tank fitted but we were varying the setups a lot. Yes, you would need your malediction wingman to tackle but the pair could work very well together.
Us playing with the change internally is a far cry from a promise of it coming to the test servers just yet or it being the final set of assault ship changes, but we are looking at it seriously for dominion.
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god7705
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Posted - 2009.09.11 14:51:00 -
[17]
I really enjoy flying my Enyo at 3,000+ m/s and handing out close to 270 dps (EFT). I especially enjoy flying my Ishkur, orbiting at 28km, and laying down enough damage to shred an interdictor. Yes - a nicely fit Sabre. Any extra bonus would be welcomed, but not necessary. Gents just need to learn how to fly a little better and choose your targets wisely (a BS is not the intended target for an AF).
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.09.11 14:52:00 -
[18]
Do NOT touch the low slots on the Retribution. They are needed for tank/tracking/damage, if you absolutely have to move slots around remove the utility, limited fittings that are able to use it anyway. In its current form the lack of a 2nd midslot limits its function to that of damage only, something the more resilient Omen does better.
Ishkur with 5 Medium drones would be absurdly overpowered. We would drown in MWD/Rail kiting Ishkurs overnight and their possible targets would explode to include everything but huge passive shield tanks. 5 lights with damage bonus is close to the limit of what should be allowed, it is already damn hard to kill in anything sub-cruiser
Rockets are poo, plain and simple. Unless they are tweaked no amount of changes to current Vengeance bonuses will make people use rockets on it. Rather have more tank than 1-2 extra dps.
Harpy with RoF, hmmmmmm. Where do I sign up! Would make for a magnificent gank ship.
Hawk is utterly useless against AB frigates. It is simply unable to dish out enough damage due to missile mechanics and can't tank a ganked Punisher, not sure a RoF bonus would help. Perhaps a signature/exp. velocity bonus would be better, depends on what hulls it should consider as its primary prey.
Same argument for Jaguar/Wolf. They already have ample of damage but are unable to apply it properly, I think they would benefit more from a tracking bonus similar to the Rifter/Claw.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.09.11 16:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Erdiere Sure, ishkurs having 5 medium drones out wouldn't be at all overpowered.
EFT'ing this, a perfect skills overheated Max Gank Ishkur with 50m3 of bandwidth would do 429 DPS. An overheated Max Gank Taranis with perfect skills already does 364. Considering the Taranis goes half as fast again, I'm not sure this is really so over the top. It would be useful and powerful, but isn't that what we want from our Assault Frigates?
Overdroned Ishkurs (perhaps even in conjunction with OverGunned Assault Frigs for the other races?) sound like fun!
Originally by: CCP Chronotis We have been playing around with the afterburner speed bonus suggested from the recent CSM meeting internally. The results are pretty promising in terms of giving you a ship with a low sig res and good speed able to close range on targets fast in a reasonably safe way and once in range to unleash hell.
Promising maybe, but my first reaction is that it seems to overlap with the interceptor role (because thanks to their bonuses they also get the combination of high speed with relatively low sig res). I'd prefer to see Assault Frigs get a Unique Selling Point rather than have them squabbling with inties over the same sort of role.
Quote: In combination with the small rigs, we were able to come up with some pretty awesome setups with for example even the often lambasted retribution, we were zipping around at 1.5km/s with a 400mm plate and around 8k EHP tank fitted but we were varying the setups a lot.
We can already fit a 400mm rolled tungsten and an afterburner on a Crusader and do around 1500m/s whist also tackling the target, so its difficult to really see why you're so excited about this.
Final Thought: '20% reduction in Tech II ammunition penalties per level of Assault Ships'. Think about it
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.09.11 17:06:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Ishkur with 5 Medium drones would be absurdly overpowered. We would drown in MWD/Rail kiting Ishkurs overnight and their possible targets would explode to include everything but huge passive shield tanks.
(until the target shot the drones)
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Grut
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.11 17:15:00 -
[21]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis We have been playing around with the afterburner speed bonus suggested from the recent CSM meeting internally. The results are pretty promising in terms of giving you a ship with a low sig res and good speed able to close range on targets fast in a reasonably safe way and once in range to unleash hell. We felt this was a good alternative to messing with an already relative high damage output and multiple bonuses.
In combination with the small rigs, we were able to come up with some pretty awesome setups with for example even the often lambasted retribution, we were zipping around at 1.5km/s with a 400mm plate and around 8k EHP tank fitted but we were varying the setups a lot. Yes, you would need your malediction wingman to tackle but the pair could work very well together.
Us playing with the change internally is a far cry from a promise of it coming to the test servers just yet or it being the final set of assault ship changes, but we are looking at it seriously for dominion.
Not to quote a dev in vain, but the problem with the retribution is not that it dosen't work ok with other stuff its that say another AF like an Enyo which does have 2 mids would be preferable in almost every situation.
While the damage ~ half you can get 12k EHP out of a punisher with similar speed, again with 2 mids so the above doesn't sound to usefull for an extra 20 odd mill.
Can't you just move the utility (useless) high to a mid
Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
zombiedeadhead
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.09.11 18:06:00 -
[22]
Problem with giving AF's some sort of AB buff, is that it still leaves them totally vulnerable to Neuts. Doesn't matter how fast you can go with your AB on, if you don;t have the cap to activate it. So that buff would quickly dissapear.
I would like the second damage bonus, ROf, or as someone said, for the Wolf/Jag a tracking bonus.
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Daeros Ipswitch
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Posted - 2009.09.11 18:32:00 -
[23]
AF's seem to be extremely useful but only in a handful of situations. It often seems like they do need some other type of bonus to give them a unique distinction amongst ships. The idea of a reduction in T2 ammo penalties would definitely be nice and would make a good role bonus.
For their size class they do decent DPS, however boosting something like their range on some ships could certainly give them the extra boost they deserve.
AF's should get something as every other T2 gets that other bonus.
As for the comments about the retribution. Low Slots needed as are, Utility High slot should really be a second Mid slot.
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Vanden
The Happy Spacemen
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Posted - 2009.09.11 18:42:00 -
[24]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Possible AB speed bonus
This sounds great, but i was wondering: are you were considering this as the fourth bonus, or as a role bonus for the whole class?
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.11 19:43:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Vanden
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Possible AB speed bonus
This sounds great, but i was wondering: are you were considering this as the fourth bonus, or as a role bonus for the whole class?
Sounds like they mean it as a class bonus, like the ones they have been slapping on every ship tweaked/released in the past couple of years
I am more than a little concerned about balancing issues though. If AF's start moving as fast as MWD Cruiser's using afterburners the entire cruiser/BC classes becomes a liability as they will have no hope in hell of killing these things much less get away from them.
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Grut
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.11 19:51:00 -
[26]
Maybe let them active tank abit better.
Cruisers buffer as do destroyers and frigs so it makes them abit different.
Something like -7.5% cap recharge a level? Gives them abit more resistance to neuts aswell to further seperate.
Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
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Posted - 2009.09.12 11:26:00 -
[27]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis We have been playing around with the afterburner speed bonus suggested from the recent CSM meeting internally. The results are pretty promising in terms of giving you a ship with a low sig res and good speed able to close range on targets fast in a reasonably safe way and once in range to unleash hell. We felt this was a good alternative to messing with an already relative high damage output and multiple bonuses.
In combination with the small rigs, we were able to come up with some pretty awesome setups with for example even the often lambasted retribution, we were zipping around at 1.5km/s with a 400mm plate and around 8k EHP tank fitted but we were varying the setups a lot. Yes, you would need your malediction wingman to tackle but the pair could work very well together.
Us playing with the change internally is a far cry from a promise of it coming to the test servers just yet or it being the final set of assault ship changes, but we are looking at it seriously for dominion.
I think that's excactly what eve needs! Would be awesome. So few ships are designed to use AB, which imo is why so few people use them.
Moar AB decicated ships please!
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Khandahar Bob
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Posted - 2009.09.14 23:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Daeros Ipswitch AF's seem to be extremely useful but only in a handful of situations.
I think that's the point. Every ship in the game should be extremely useful, but only in a handful of situations. If there is a ship that is useful in every situation it should get tweaked until it's not.
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ark maphar
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Posted - 2009.09.14 23:40:00 -
[29]
i think all the assault frigates should focus on what they are named ASSAULT frigates, so i was thinking like no tank, pretty much cruiser dps on all of em, basically take thier tank away, and give like a MASSIVE BONUS TO DAMAGE (even more then we have now)
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Conwakleferibok
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Posted - 2009.09.14 23:53:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ydyp Ieva
Originally by: Erdiere
Originally by: Benwah
Originally by: Ydyp Ieva For the ishkur I would got for an extra bandwidth, so they can field 5 mediums at max level.
IIRC it used to be that way, but was changed to the 25 mb/sec we have now for 'balancing'
Sure, ishkurs having 5 medium drones out wouldn't be at all overpowered.
Same as ishtar having 5 heavies out
But now with the dmg changes on drones, so mediums don't hit frigates as hard as lights. I don't see this as overpowered anymore. And at this moment I found the ishkur the weakest of the assault ships I can fly (only minmatar I can't fly)
Now thats just stupid. Ishkurs are the best AFs, followed closely by the Jaguar.
I'll post the pro fits for devs.
ISHKUR Damage Control II Corelum C-Type Energized Reactive Membrane Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer
Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
x3 Light Ion Blaster II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
Hybrid Collision Accelerator I Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Drones x5 Warriors x5 Light ECM
Stats: 7.8k EHP 65 DPS Tank 255 DPS goes 950 m/s (add low grade snakes and you get an awesome little boat) full tackle + ecm
JAGUAR (only 1 way to fit this baby)
Internal Force Field Array I Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II
Coreli C-Type 1MN Afterburner Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
x3 150mm Light AutoCannon II,Republic Fleet EMP S Small Nosferatu II
Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II
Stats 9.4k EHP 125 DPS Tank 168 DPS 1119 m/s (again, add low snakes for extra funsies) half tackle, no ecm
Caldari and Amarr AFs do fail though. (I've only found 1 decent Hawk fit - it's friggin expensive though -> medium gist booster)
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