EVE Search - Blasters are fine, I fly gallente AND amarr

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Blasters are fine, I fly gallente AND amarr

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Allahs Warrior Gallente Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests	Posted - 2009.08.02 14:27:00 - [1] I dont think you guys understand what it means to have HIGHEST DPS. Highest DPS in the game means that if you're hitting them 1v1 (since we've been comparing 1v1 setups), and you've got similar tanks, you win. Doesn't matter what race, what kind of guns, whether they have drones or not, whether they have active or passive tank, or whatever. You win. In small gangs, where you can web them effectively and therefore actually hit them, you win, every time. Lasers have to bank on the fact that your tracking is junk for your optimal otherwise they lose EVERY TIME you get in range (which gallente will outrun amarr with higher battleship base speed). The only problem is that this raw mathematical approach never happens when solo in "real EVE". Your warpin is 20km away and his scorch hits you and by the time your 50m/s advantage gets you there he's done 50k damage. But there are more cases than just blasters where "solo pvp" is broken. You're fighting a rock against paper. If you don't like that, then fly amarr. Otherwise, get a covops warpin, and a friend to web him, and in small gang fights with a good warp-in, gallente ALWAYS will win. Your surplus of mids with comparable lows means you can individually point EACH ship of theirs, and be confident in the fact you'll be naturally doing more DPS, and oh yeah, you'll have drones. And remember, 24km is max fighting range (unless you've got a missile on your ares or you are extremely lucky when overheating), so there's a gallente shortrange buff right there. You only ever have to close 24km, otherwise you can warp out. tl;dr Comparing pulses to Neutrons in a solo fight with a bad warpin for the blasterboat and no friends to web him is putting pulses where they like to be, rather than where they will always lose.
AstroPhobic Divine Retribution	Posted - 2009.08.02 14:40:00 - [2] There are no 1v1s. 10-15% loss in damage for 300% range. It's not even a question.
Allahs Warrior Gallente Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests	Posted - 2009.08.02 14:42:00 - [3] Originally by: AstroPhobic I didn't read your post past the first paragraph. I didn't even read the tl;dr at the bottom. Oh that's good input.
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.08.02 15:02:00 - [4] Edited by: Grimpak on 02/08/2009 15:02:58 Originally by: Allahs Warrior Originally by: AstroPhobic I didn't read your post past the first paragraph. I didn't even read the tl;dr at the bottom. Oh that's good input. very well, let's put it this way: in how many situations can you think of a megathron landing right on top of your ass? and in how many situations you will find a HPL fitted ship (geddon, apoc or 'baddon) landed on their optimals? and what is the chance of anyone of these scenarios happen in "real-life" conditions, in 1vs1's? and finally pitting an apoc and a megathron against each other, considering that there's a 5% chance of the 'thron landing at point blank on the apoc, who would win? there you have it. 10 to 15% damage sacrificed for an increase on over 300% in range. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
AstroPhobic Divine Retribution	Posted - 2009.08.02 15:03:00 - [5] Originally by: Allahs Warrior I didn't read the part where you said there was no 1v1s Comparing pulses and blasters in a 1 on 1 scenario is nothing short of laughable. Carry on.
Atreus Tac Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.08.02 15:56:00 - [6] Hmmmm...no Quote: Lasers have to bank on the fact that your tracking is junk for your optimal There tracking is (as you would put it) VERY good in ratio to their optimal. Quote: The only problem is that this raw mathematical approach never happens when solo in "real EVE" good for their range. So your are saying that in eve lasers are better because eve isnt played on paper? Quote: If you don't like that, then fly amarr Ahh so now you are saying that to have more success in 1v1 train amarr. Okay this arguement seems flawed. Quote: Otherwise, get a covops warpin, and a friend to web him, and in small gang fights with a good warp-in, gallente ALWAYS will win. or you can get 2 other people in two other battle ships because 3vs1 is better. Let me get this straight. What you are trying to say is blasters are fine if you have 2 other people to help you fight 1 ship. But in true 1v1 in eve amarr are way better and to be good train amarr. you sir are STUPID. This arguement is flawed in every way. Lasers are a much more complete weapon because their tracking is too good for their range (scorch im looking at). Their damage/optimal ratio is way better that blasters. They dish out better damage types and web nerf/speed nerf has hurt balster more than any other ship. __________________________________________________________ [16:54:07] Kopier Tante > if you got an mwd then your completly ****ed [16:54:34] Kopier Tante > you got no defence, no speed, nothing.
Allahs Warrior Gallente Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests	Posted - 2009.08.02 16:16:00 - [7] Edited by: Allahs Warrior on 02/08/2009 16:16:50 Train amarr for success against blasters with pulses 1v1 when you start at 24km, yes. Train minmatar to turn off amarr lasers with neuts and make them absolutely useless while you orbit and shoot cap-free. edit: you sir are stupid
AstroPhobic Divine Retribution	Posted - 2009.08.02 16:22:00 - [8] Originally by: Allahs Warrior Edited by: Allahs Warrior on 02/08/2009 16:16:50 Train amarr for success against blasters with pulses 1v1 when you start at 24km, yes. Train minmatar to turn off amarr lasers with neuts and make them absolutely useless while you orbit and shoot cap-free. edit: you sir are stupid Obvious troll is obvious. Please don't feed him anymore, that is all.
Jared D'Uroth Universal Peace Operation	Posted - 2009.08.02 16:23:00 - [9] Confirming Allah's Warrior is the stupidest person to ever post on S&M. Also, boost Minmatar. === Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Originally by: Davinel Lulinvega My instinct says troll, but there's this little nagging voice saying some people really are that dumb.
Atreus Tac Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.08.02 16:34:00 - [10] Originally by: Allahs Warrior Edited by: Allahs Warrior on 02/08/2009 16:16:50 Train amarr for success against blasters with pulses 1v1 when you start at 24km, yes. Train minmatar to turn off amarr lasers with neuts and make them absolutely useless while you orbit and shoot cap-free. edit: you sir are stupid Oh yeah, the other point I was going to make is that you believe that blasters are fine just becuase they can beat lasers when they start in their very short optimal. This, imo, is very narrow mined as this is such a small proportion of fights that it is foolish to base such a broad statement on it. __________________________________________________________ [16:54:07] Kopier Tante > if you got an mwd then your completly ****ed [16:54:34] Kopier Tante > you got no defence, no speed, nothing.

Allahs Warrior Gallente Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests	Posted - 2009.08.02 16:50:00 - [11] Originally by: Atreus Tac Originally by: Allahs Warrior Edited by: Allahs Warrior on 02/08/2009 16:16:50 Train amarr for success against blasters with pulses 1v1 when you start at 24km, yes. Train minmatar to turn off amarr lasers with neuts and make them absolutely useless while you orbit and shoot cap-free. edit: you sir are stupid Oh yeah, the other point I was going to make is that you believe that blasters are fine just becuase they can beat lasers when they start in their very short optimal. This, imo, is very narrow mined as this is such a small proportion of fights that it is foolish to base such a broad statement on it. If you dont like your race train another one! you might get there before the next nerf
Beverly Sparks	Posted - 2009.08.02 17:01:00 - [12] Edited by: Beverly Sparks on 02/08/2009 17:02:22 Originally by: Allahs Warrior Originally by: Atreus Tac Originally by: Allahs Warrior Edited by: Allahs Warrior on 02/08/2009 16:16:50 Train amarr for success against blasters with pulses 1v1 when you start at 24km, yes. Train minmatar to turn off amarr lasers with neuts and make them absolutely useless while you orbit and shoot cap-free. edit: you sir are stupid Oh yeah, the other point I was going to make is that you believe that blasters are fine just becuase they can beat lasers when they start in their very short optimal. This, imo, is very narrow mined as this is such a small proportion of fights that it is foolish to base such a broad statement on it. If you dont like your race train another one! you might get there before the next nerf Your lack of knowledge is showing in almost every one of your posts, but I doubt you can see that. Congratulations on figuring out that Blasters are the best point blank weapon.
Allahs Warrior Gallente Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests	Posted - 2009.08.02 17:56:00 - [13] You just cant see my brilliance
Rune v3nus	Posted - 2009.08.02 17:58:00 - [14] Originally by: Allahs Warrior You just cant see my brilliance weak
LordThyGod	Posted - 2009.08.02 20:29:00 - [15] i've been flying blaster rokh for a long time and ive never had a problem, most of the tiem i dont even have a mwd on, it might take a bit longer, but i do get in range, and i usualy end up as top damage dealer. Blasters are like a sledgehammer to the face, yea your bb gun will get to engage first, but lets see whos on the ground at the end :P
Allahs Warrior Gallente Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests	Posted - 2009.08.02 21:16:00 - [16] LordThyGod, you get me. I can't quit you.
Djerin Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.08.02 21:38:00 - [17] Edited by: Djerin on 02/08/2009 21:44:35 Originally by: LordThyGod i've been flying blaster rokh for a long time and ive never had a problem, most of the tiem i dont even have a mwd on Yeah, and got on what, 2 bs mails with it? One of those was on Sisi even. Nice try. :lol: ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo
Cambarus Clearly Compensating	Posted - 2009.08.02 21:40:00 - [18] I also fly gallente and amarr, so I'm speaking with some experience here: 1) Solo fights almost never happen, using them in any way to compare weapon systems is at best flawed and at worst moronic. 2)24km is NOT the maximum fighting range. See point 1. This is especially true on region gates and even some others, where the gate has a radius of like 20km, and someone can easily appear 15km from the gate's radius opposite you. And really with any sort of small to medium sized fleet engagement you end up with people all over the place, that's why most gangs with BSs have dedicated tacklers, because targets tend to land/appear outside point range for the BSs. 3) The issue with blasters isn't their viability at close range, but their lack of viability at anything other than point blank. Blasters are useful within one very small range area, whereas pulses are useful all over the place I did a bit of eft whoring to illustrate my point: (used perfect skills with both setups to be fair) Megathron with neutrons and faction AM hits for 1308 dps with ogres at 4.5km. With null you get 1100 at 11km Geddon with 4 HSs and MP2s with faction ammo hits for 1223 dps at 15km optimal (including ogres) Which means that comparing the 2, if the fight happens between 0km and roughly 6-7km, the mega will in theory win (though by at most 100dps, which is not a lot considering this is with perfect skills, and 4 damage mods) Between 7 and 15km however the geddon wins. Now 7-15km is still pretty close range, but the geddon's already doing better. Switch out to scorch. Now the geddon's doing a hair over 1k dps, but at 45km. The mega can hit with his drones, but that's it. Therein lies the big problem. It's not that blasters don't do well at close range, but that even under ideal circumstances they only do very slightly better than pulse lasers, and unlike blasters pulse lasers take all of 1 second to switch from shooting 93.5% of blaster damage at point blank to 78% of the point blank blaster range at 10X the range. While the mega has to MWD to each new target and only scratch them until he gets into range, the geddon can simply switch ammo and do nearly the same dps the whole way down.
Novantco The Scope	Posted - 2009.08.02 21:57:00 - [19] Originally by: Cambarus Good Post Well said.
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.08.02 21:57:00 - [20] Personnally I think blasters could be helped in an alternative way. At my view MWD should be changed into a slightly higher speed (make MWD bonus 700%), but straight line only (diminish agility while active by a lot). This way blasters can cut range faster but MWD does not trigger again a new nano age. Also make while MWD active weapons range is 1/10 (effectively making them useless). That would hurt almost nothing blasters. In fact the extra speed would help much more than the other things would help. On other hand would hurt much more weapons with longer range. At same time boost AB accelerateion and top speed a little bit ( to around 200% T2 with max skills) so they can be the "control range" tools.

LordThyGod	Posted - 2009.08.03 01:39:00 - [21] wait, ive posted killmails? news to me :P
arbiter reformed Minmatar Annihilate. Avarice.	Posted - 2009.08.03 02:08:00 - [22] blasters have always been fine, lazors have almost always been fine. Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste.Applebabe
Ronin Reborn Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.08.03 03:40:00 - [23] No weapon compares favorably to Mega Pulse II and to a slightly lesser extent Heavy Pulse II. That said, I personally think that blasters are back on 'the way up'. Back in '06 dedicated blasterboats were nigh useless with everything flying around at 3-5kms. Blasters today compare well to autocannons and have some situations in lowsec where they're better than pulse. I'm not sure if autos/blasters need to be buffed or pulse nerfed but its scorch that makes those other weapons systems seem so useless. One gets 45km optimal, the other two get to 'fight in falloff'.
EvE Templar	Posted - 2009.08.03 05:15:00 - [24] Edited by: EvE Templar on 03/08/2009 05:21:51 Edited by: EvE Templar on 03/08/2009 05:21:07 guy is in KIA. leave him alone :D i have a question to you allahs- have you EVER flown a BLASTER BS in pvp? whats more, have you ever lost one? He is 2008.12 player as well. How much SP/Experiance can he have? Well, I'm a gallente pilot. Range vs. DPS and tracking wasn't much issue to me, before QR. These days is it (ishtar sucks, deimos sucks, eh...). You DARE to say we have more tracking and we should be happy cause of that... great... But how much relevant this 'bonus' is, when compared to distance? Did u knew, that fighting on a closer distance requires more tracking? Let's compare Mega pulse t2 (multi) and neutron t2 (antimatter), skills L5. Tracking of mega pulse is 0.04219 making him able to track object orbiting with speed 167m/s @4km (optimal of neutron) 629m/s @10km (mega pulse optimal) 713m/s @17km (optimal+falloff of neutron 1048m/s@25km (optimal+falloff of mega pulse) Valuse for neutron are: 215m/s @4km 538m/s @10km 914m/s @17km 1345m/s@25km We can clearly see, that is has more tracking. Oh yeah, indeed. But when you will have your target at your optimal, then transversal will be to high for your tracking to keep up with it (unless it's a bs). This is bad, since webs were nerfed terribly. If you will try to fight in falloff then :welp: you are outta dps due to range. Quote: And remember, 24km is max fighting range No. This is not fighting range. Fighting range is 48km. Tell me, who will be able to kill arazu at that range- blaster boat with null and 11optimal and 16 falloff or laser boat with 45km optimall and 10km falloff? Now... there is something else in the market then battleships and those are BCs, Cs and Frigate class ships. Tell me, who will win in presented situation of 24km distance- brutix with 5.6km optimal and 7.8km falloff on null or harbringer with 23km optimal and 5km falloff? don't make me to go to cruisers cause amarrs will win even more. Only frigates are out, since they are warp scram range and diffrence is really small. How also, will you count advantage that it takes 1second for amarr to change ammo and 10sec for gallente to change ammo? Diffrence in this time might mean dead or alive for you. And tracking isn't and advantage of gallente. Neutrong have better tracking them 800mm acs by 0.0001. ACs don't use cap, needs less pg and cpu :< But please, leave everyone alone, cause i recently finished training minmatars and training amarrs now :D
Fon Revedhort Monks of War Banzai Boyz	Posted - 2009.08.03 05:45:00 - [25] Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 03/08/2009 05:45:26 Originally by: Ronin Reborn I'm not sure if autos/blasters need to be buffed or pulse nerfed but its scorch that makes those other weapons systems seem so useless. One gets 45km optimal, the other two get to 'fight in falloff'. That's right there - the scorch crystals are just too good. I'd suggest cutting the optimal range bonus and giving those a slight falloff one, so it's like 17.5 km optimal plus 7.5 km foloff at heavy pulses and 35 + 15 at megapulses Anyway, you can't do much about it if you keep the same optimal range progression in S -> M -> L weapon classes. Bringing megapulses inline, so they hit say at 30 km at max will suddenly make M and S lasers loosing all the advantage over rivals. The only real way is to nerf Scorch L directly And I'm amarrian myself. ---[center] Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.08.03 06:28:00 - [26] I remain of the opinion that one of the biggest problems with blasters is the stoic insistence that only antimatter is ever worth using. I mean, it's really funny seeing people about range:tracking ratios, whilst at the same time deliberately halving their optimal range. Why not complain at how slow an offlined MWD is at the same time? Blasters remain the highest dps highest tracking weapons in the game. They're still thoroughly outclassing auto cannons - which you'll note have even shorter optimal ranges, and worse tracking, and have more falloff as a great way to start off doing worse than 'on paper' DPS. shrug. Blasters have their weak spot in the current metagame, where range is becoming increasingly valuable due to lower ship speeds - autos share this problem though - where missiles and lasers are basically mid range weapons to start off with. When mid range fights are more common, I don't feel it's unreasonable that the mid range weapons _should_ be shining somewhat. Have you considered fitting rails to your blaster ship instead?
Yakov Draken Minmatar Tides Of War	Posted - 2009.08.03 10:23:00 - [27] Originally by: Grimpak in how many situations can you think of a megathron landing right on top of your ass? All the time - is this a trick question? We drop our short range BS's on top of people at gates, station undocks, and safe spots. Originally by: Grimpak pitting an apoc and a megathron against each other, considering that there's a 5% chance of the 'thron landing at point blank on the apoc, who would win?. You are trolling right? It is really easy to drop stuff in at zero on people using covert ops. We do low sec BS combat and our experiance is blasters are fantastic and the Mega is an awesome BS. We live and die based on the performance of our short range BS's, fly lots of Mega's, and our BS combat stats are excellent. I read battlereports where short range BS's fleets melt face in O.O and Mega's are there with their blasters in great number. Its about using them right. If you can't do any good with short range face melting tactics using blaster Mega's you are doing it wrong. Short range face melting in BS's is an entirely viable option in Eve and blaster are a premier tool for the job.
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.08.03 12:10:00 - [28] Originally by: James Lyrus I remain of the opinion that one of the biggest problems with blasters is the stoic insistence that only antimatter is ever worth using. I mean, it's really funny seeing people about range:tracking ratios, whilst at the same time deliberately halving their optimal range. Why not complain at how slow an offlined MWD is at the same time? Have you considered fitting rails to your blaster ship instead? Well that's generally because Antimatter is the only ammo worth using to achieve our paper high DPS. Rails? Rails are even worse than blasters imo. They're sub-par to EVERYTHING, except possible artillery, and that's a gamble.
Kessiaan Minmatar DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.08.03 12:40:00 - [29] Edited by: Kessiaan on 03/08/2009 12:44:57 Originally by: James Lyrus I remain of the opinion that one of the biggest problems with blasters is the stoic insistence that only antimatter is ever worth using. I mean, it's really funny seeing people about range:tracking ratios, whilst at the same time deliberately halving their optimal range. Because Antimatter is the only ammo worth using most of the time. If you need range you load up Null. It still sucks as far as range ammos go but it's better than nothing. Personally my experience has been that blasters scale very poorly with gang size. Solo, they're fine. In small gangs up to five or so people they're fine. Anything larger either the target or you is dead before you can get to range. As for rails, rails are really good with Spike - excellent range, hit hard, and at the range you're supposed to use Spike at, the tracking isn't all that bad, especially given that sniping ships almost always have tracking enhancers. Rails with anything else are kind of 'meh', Javelin does good damage but you have to be way close and you basically web yourself when you load it, antimatter doesn't have the self-web penalty but lacks DPS when shot out of rails, don't even get me started on iron, sure it has range but it does about as much damage as a noobship's civilian blaster.
Djerin Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.08.03 13:03:00 - [30] Edited by: Djerin on 03/08/2009 13:04:08 Originally by: Kessiaan Because Antimatter is the only ammo worth using most of the time. If you need range you load up Null. It still sucks as far as range ammos go but it's better than nothing. The Atlas-guy is spot on here. It's actually similar to AC, where people are mainly using the ranged T2 ammo and only switch to EMP occasionally to crank out a little extra DPS, when the target is locked down completely. In both cases the pilots don't even bother to bring the ammo types, that have both mediocre range and mediocre damage. The reason is simple. When you are actually able to dictate range you only need one ammo type. And when your enemy dictates range that's usually the opposite of were you want to fight. It is extremely rare, that nobody dictates range and so there's almost never any need to bring different ammo. And unlike with lasers we cannot change ammo within 1 second, but have to wait 10 secs on every ammo switch. So we cannot start with Null and work our way through various ammo types to end up with antimatter while getting to point blank. ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo



Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.