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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Donedy
Snuff Box
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 16:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Because CCP are clearly partial about the rules they made and a competition with partial judges is not a competition but a masquerade.
I guess im not alone thinking that, so please make an effort CCP and stop acting like childs.
I created a new topic because the old one is locked, and moreover you didnt answered to my questions in the last one. |
DA Cassel
The Hobo Lords
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 16:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Im feeling the same way, unfortunatly. I love AT but this leaves a bad taste in your mouth. |
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
178
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 17:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
In before rage posting from Sreegs and SW, later deleted out of embarrassment, then lock from phantom.
Don't think we will be breaking any viewing records this year. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
451
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 17:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Good, you'll save their bandwidth? eh |
ElextriX
Snuff Box
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 17:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Agreed, not interested if the best teams aren't allowed to compete. The rest of the teams will be competing to be a paper champion. |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
148
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 17:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Don't think this thread has legs. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
451
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 17:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
ElextriX wrote:Agreed, not interested if the best teams aren't allowed to compete.
Oh, I need to correct this glaring error. Pandemic Legion is competing. eh |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
97
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 17:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
haha oh no a couple of empire pubbies are going to boycott the free-to-watch Alliance Tournament
|
ElextriX
Snuff Box
17
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Posted - 2012.05.26 17:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:ElextriX wrote:Agreed, not interested if the best teams aren't allowed to compete. Oh, I need to correct this glaring error. Pandemic Legion is competing.
and where did they finish last year? |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
452
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 17:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
ElextriX wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:ElextriX wrote:Agreed, not interested if the best teams aren't allowed to compete. Oh, I need to correct this glaring error. Pandemic Legion is competing. and where did they finish last year?
where did they finish the three years before that? eh |
|
ElextriX
Snuff Box
17
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Posted - 2012.05.26 17:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:ElextriX wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:ElextriX wrote:Agreed, not interested if the best teams aren't allowed to compete. Oh, I need to correct this glaring error. Pandemic Legion is competing. and where did they finish last year? where did they finish the three years before that?
Yeah so they were the best, they're not reigning champions or even finalists, I'm not quite sure why we're arguing over this, it's not like I said they were bad.
|
Donedy
Snuff Box
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 17:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
penifSMASH wrote:haha oh no a couple of empire pubbies are going to boycott the free-to-watch Alliance Tournament
I guess that null sec pubbies with brain wont pay any interest to this abusively called "tournament" too.
Richard Desturned wrote:ElextriX wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:ElextriX wrote:Agreed, not interested if the best teams aren't allowed to compete. Oh, I need to correct this glaring error. Pandemic Legion is competing. and where did they finish last year? where did they finish the three years before that?
So this year, no AT X needed because of a lack of money, we give first place to PL. Because THEY ARE THE BEST, THEY ARE THE BEST, THEY ARE THE BEST, so there is no need to compet. |
Suitonia
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
75
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 17:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Entire tournament is now a 2 horse race, DarkSide and PL are the only two teams who are serious enough to put work into it, And DarkSide are too ~~~SpAcEhOnOuR~~~ on SiSi to put any effort into spying and counter spying. Maybe there is 1-2 potential dark horses with old voltron team and dystopia but thats the extent of the competition this year.
Enjoy the free ECM bonused Eagle PL.
|
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
119
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 17:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:
Enjoy the free ECM bonused Eagle PL.
Ugh, is it too late to withdraw from the AT? If thats what the prize ends up being, i think hydra is better off getting banned. |
Honeyhole
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 17:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Entire tournament is now a 2 horse race, DarkSide and PL are the only two teams who are serious enough to put work into it, And DarkSide are too ~~~SpAcEhOnOuR~~~ on SiSi to put any effort into spying and counter spying. Maybe there is 1-2 potential dark horses with old voltron team and dystopia but thats the extent of the competition this year.
Enjoy the free ECM bonused Eagle PL.
Yeah! People need to recognize that only a handful (ie 3-4) teams put in any real effort at all who consistently put on good showings (except PL from last year) and CCP just banned two of them.
heh
|
Donedy
Snuff Box
13
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 17:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
According to CCP rules, PL should be banned this year.
They are team A for Sniggwaffe eh. |
Roark Garnet
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 17:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Honeyhole wrote:CCP just banned two of them.
Well, in essence they banned just one of the top team |
Donedy
Snuff Box
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 17:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Roark Garnet wrote:Honeyhole wrote:CCP just banned two of them.
Well, in essence they banned just one of the top team
Is that troll? I mean from someone who has his team which should have been banned I find it ******* dared.
Who knows, CCP could be finally touched by the grace and make Hydra participate or kick PL. |
Wheedily
Megaton Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:In before rage posting from Sreegs and SW, later deleted out of embarrassment, then lock from phantom.
Don't think we will be breaking any viewing records this year.
This. Don't forget mass forum bans for non abusive conduct. Disgrace. Blahblah |
Roark Garnet
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Donedy wrote:
Is that troll? I mean from someone who has his team which should have been banned I find it ******* dared.
Who knows, CCP could be finally touched by the grace and make Hydra participate or kick PL.
Not sparring with each other nor having people transfer from an alliance or another on both servers is truly a blantant evidence of working as a single team, amirite ?
I feel sorry that HyBreak will not participate this year, but in all honesty, I wonder how they could think they could join the same corp ,train and operate as one team and expect CCP not to ban them out of the tourney. |
|
Donedy
Snuff Box
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Roark Garnet wrote:Donedy wrote:
Is that troll? I mean from someone who has his team which should have been banned I find it ******* dared.
Who knows, CCP could be finally touched by the grace and make Hydra participate or kick PL.
Not sparring with each other nor having people transfer from an alliance or another on both servers is truly a blantant evidence of working as a single team, amirite ? I feel sorry that HyBreak will not participate this year, but in all honesty, I wonder how they could think they could join the same corp ,train and operate as one team and expect CCP not to ban them out of the tourney.
Everyone knows that sniggwaffe = PL, and both teams asked to participate, am I right? The only difference between PL and Hydra is god knows why PL is not banned. |
Musician
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
PL is not banned because there is a rumour going around that Dev's have alts in PL.... |
Qlfon
State War Academy Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
LOL, also looks like Goons have mains in Dev's. |
Roark Garnet
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
Donedy wrote: Everyone knows that sniggwaffe = PL, and both teams asked to participate, am I right? The only difference between PL and Hydra is god knows why PL is not banned.
You said the words, "both teams". I thank you for finally understanding that these 2 teams are operating as 2 separate teams.
|
Roark Garnet
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Musician wrote:PL is not banned because there is a rumour going around that Dev's have alts in PL....
We can also spit fireballs out of our buttholes
|
Donedy
Snuff Box
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:44:00 -
[26] - Quote
Roark Garnet wrote:Donedy wrote: Everyone knows that sniggwaffe = PL, and both teams asked to participate, am I right? The only difference between PL and Hydra is god knows why PL is not banned.
You said the words, "both teams". I thank you for finally understanding that these 2 teams are operating as 2 separate teams.
I would have say "both teams" if i was talking about hydra/outbreak, bro. Dont play with words you understood wevry well what i mean.
Just in order to be sure you understand I want to higlight :
Donedy wrote: Everyone knows that sniggwaffe = PL
|
Roark Garnet
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
Donedy wrote:
Just in order to be sure you understand I want to higlight :
Everyone knows that sniggwaffe = PL
That's some serious evidence of collusion m8m8
|
Donedy
Snuff Box
24
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
Oh god... Really? You are pretending that sniggwaffe and PL are not operating as only one team?
https://www.pandemic-legion.com/forums/showthread.php?40887-Dvomayn&p=544391&viewfull=1#post544391
Thats okay now? Collusion is well demonstrated? |
R0ot
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 18:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
ElextriX wrote:Agreed, not interested if the best TEAM aren't allowed to compete. The rest of the teams will be competing to be a paper champion.
Well if you are going to say Hydra and Outbreak and the best teams you may as well correct your sentence as I've done for you above.
*Not saying Hydra/Outbreak are the best team(s) btw. |
Donedy
Snuff Box
28
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 19:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
R0ot wrote:training corps Yeah thats it! Thats what I mean!
And you still maintain that's not a B team?
GOD! |
|
R0ot
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 19:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
Donedy wrote:R0ot wrote:training corps Yeah thats it! Thats what I mean! And you still maintain that its not a B team? GOD!
No you'll find if you look at last years tournament you'll find the actual B team which wasn't entered this year m888888888.
|
Donedy
Snuff Box
28
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 19:07:00 -
[32] - Quote
Yeah but last year there wasnt this rule about A, B ,C teams, M8888.
And thats the point here. |
R0ot
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 19:18:00 -
[33] - Quote
Donedy wrote:Yeah but last year there wasnt this rule about A, B ,C teams, M8888.
And thats the point here.
Are you dumb or do you just skip over the lines in posts that actually give you an answer to your never ending circle jerk like arguement. PL has no B team entered this year per the rules, sniggwaffe is not a B team, they've been excluded for having "links" to PL which is unfortunate.
Hydra/Outbreak are and have been the same entity for a LONG time now. Clear evidence is last years tournament final. So this year they ask a GM is it ok that they practice together. Sure nothing wrong with that. Then they go and dump themselves fully committed into a wormhole together in the same corp (really doesn't matter if it was the TEST server or Tranquillity since anyone worth their salt uses the TEST server). The cries of "oh my we only merged into the same corp on the TEST server for logistics purposes" is the dumbest thing I've ever seen said on these forums since the CAOD of old (Xelas ftw).
Saying all this they should be allowed to enter either Hydra or Outbreak in the tournament or at this stage participate in the last bid slot but I am almost certain if this were to happen that they'd again attempt to gain the morale high ground (like Holland tries to claim the high ground during the film 2012) and reject the offer citing "we didn't want to play anyway".
They skirted the line and took a **** on it on the way past they deserve what they got, they've just provided so many tears since this has happened that any redemption is now impossible. Good luck Hydra / Outbreak we'll see you log in next year for AT XI and hopefully you won't try and B team it again.
In before CAOD forum drama of Hydra / Outbreak internal strife thus splitting the membership well in advance of the Alliance tournament to try and enter a covert B team. (Quote this because it's going to happen) |
Intigo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
82
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 19:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
R0ot wrote:Hydra/Outbreak are and have been the same entity for a LONG time now.
I am sure this is news to members of both Alliances. "We discussed forming 1 (ONE) corporation to make these training in wormholes possible; if we wouldnt merge, 4th would have been forced to spend days and days to setup their own pos, to do this." 2 separate teams considered doing the same thing HYDRA & Outbreak did - how can you justify banning 2 teams who thought it was within the rules? |
Donedy
Snuff Box
28
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 19:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
Well i think that "B team" should have been defined.
Because there seem to be much people thinking that sniggwaffe is PL B team.
And honestly, i want to believe you when you say "nono, we are two different teams".
But why wouldnt I believe Hydra/Outbreak?
Thats just a ******* mess.
Do you see the point?
|
michael boltonIII
175
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 19:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
Donedy wrote:Rules must be the same for everyone, and it is obvious that there is as much evidences Outbreak being Hydra B team as snigg being PL B team.
The important difference between waffle/PL and hydrabreak is that Waffle and PL actually don't practice together and know nothing about each other's teams. Waffle got pulled out because they are functionally the ******** wing of PL, and a vassal alliance. They'd probably do the same thing if DAWWW or -A- associates tried to join.
Hydra and Outbreak are two alliances who got together to field two teams using a single set of setups, practice, and theorycrafting. They aren't an A and B team, to any outside observer, they are the same team, only differentiated by the name of their alliance and the pilots who fly the setups. The most important part of the alliance tournament is your setups, and being able to keep those setups a secret, pilot skill is only super important when the setups are such that it's a relatively even fight. Hydra and Outbreak have literally no way to keep secrets from each other, because they are all in the same corp, in the same wormhole, pulling ships out of the same damn POS. They had a rule designed specifically to prevent them from doing what they did last year, and the decided that a mail from a GM meant that they could do nearly exactly the same thing they did last year with the exception of trying to keep Garmon's name away from outbreak.
If I did something that pissed people off so bad that they made a law to stop me from doing it again, and I preceded to e-mail the cops asking them if I could do it again, got no answer, and then decided that since a cop from another state said it was fine that it must be cool to do it; then I have absolutely no right to ***** when I get locked up. |
Ohh Yeah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
72
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 19:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
Donedy wrote:According to CCP rules, PL should be banned this year.
They are team A for Sniggwaffe eh.
Nah. CCP acknowledged that Waffles and PL are entirely separate in their tournament efforts, and are certainly not working together as a single entity. However, due to the fact that many Waffles leave alts in YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT after graduating to Sniggerdly, it's a little difficult to police whether or not there are any Waffle graduates flying for both teams (which afaik, there are none)
Essentially, their efforts are separate, but people tend to have characters in both alliances, so it'd be iffy to let both in. An understandable decision, of course. |
JEFFRAIDER
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 20:00:00 -
[38] - Quote
Donedy wrote:Well i think that "B team" should have been defined. Because I want to believe you when you say "nono, we are two different teams". But why wouldnt I believe Hydra/Outbreak? Thats just a ******* mess. Do you see the point?
Rules must be the same for everyone, and it is obvious that there is as much evidences Outbreak being Hydra B team as snigg being PL B team.
EDIT :
Oh and i forget, Pandemic Legion/Sniggwaffe are and have been the same entity for a LONG time now.
You see? Same thing mate.
**** it, i should have called this topic "KICK PL"!
Hey I'll handle this guy for you, CCP Sreegs.
hey Donedy, you're stupid lololololol |
Donedy
Snuff Box
28
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 20:02:00 -
[39] - Quote
"Guys Im blobbed by PL, need back up." |
ScoRpS
0utbreak Outbreak.
32
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 20:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
michael boltonIII wrote:Donedy wrote:Rules must be the same for everyone, and it is obvious that there is as much evidences Outbreak being Hydra B team as snigg being PL B team. The important difference between waffle/PL and hydrabreak is that Waffle and PL actually don't practice together and know nothing about each other's teams. Waffle got pulled out because they are functionally the ******** wing of PL, and a vassal alliance. They'd probably do the same thing if DAWWW or -A- associates tried to join. Hydra and Outbreak are two alliances who got together to field two teams using a single set of setups, practice, and theorycrafting. They aren't an A and B team, to any outside observer, they are the same team, only differentiated by the name of their alliance and the pilots who fly the setups. The most important part of the alliance tournament is your setups, and being able to keep those setups a secret, pilot skill is only super important when the setups are such that it's a relatively even fight. Hydra and Outbreak have literally no way to keep secrets from each other, because they are all in the same corp, in the same wormhole, pulling ships out of the same damn POS. They had a rule designed specifically to prevent them from doing what they did last year, and the decided that a mail from a GM meant that they could do nearly exactly the same thing they did last year with the exception of trying to keep Garmon's name away from outbreak. If I did something that pissed people off so bad that they made a law to stop me from doing it again, and I preceded to e-mail the cops asking them if I could do it again, got no answer, and then decided that since a cop from another state said it was fine that it must be cool to do it; then I have absolutely no right to ***** when I get locked up.
Thats a lot of presumptions and not alot of evidence which has been the mode of operation for this entire mess. A simple word would have sufficed instead of an ochestrated witch hunt. I dont have any ill feelings towards any other teams entered but the hate campaign instigated against us is unjust. And if the event organisers endorse it then it's easy to buy into it.
It's a tainted event now and I feel bad for the remaining teams. It will be interesting to watch still and I would urge no one to not watch it if only to see how the event officials will at some point have to address what has transpired here on a live stream.
It's going to be embarrassing for them and a mildly ammusing for me.
We will continue playing the game as it is without doubt a brilliant game just a shame that complete morons control the AT.
The ATX team should get over themselves as they are just administrating some one elses creation and are basically grunts with attitude.
|
|
Ausf
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 20:23:00 -
[41] - Quote
Michael Bolton, I can't believe a man of your intelligence believes for one second that just because an alliance doesn't practice together on SISI that they are not in cahoots with other friendlies, regarding tactics setups etc. WhatGÇÖs the problem if any alliance wants to cough up the isk and join the AT.? Let big alliances field 3,4,5 teams if they want as long as they pay their money and beat whatGÇÖs put in front of them, then they deserve to be where they get. This type of sh*t goes on in the real world. Look at F1, they pick and choose which driver wins a race it's part of an overall plan. I understand you don't want to bite the hand that feeds you, so please get off the CCP fence and do whatGÇÖs right by admitting ATX will be a lot worse off without the 3 teams banned. Yes last yearGÇÖs final was a sham, but hey it's all in the past now. Again as mentioned earlier, no eye lids would have been battered if only one of them got to the final. They got there on their own merits, hard work and skill by beating what was put in front of them on the day. |
michael boltonIII
180
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 20:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
ScoRpS wrote:Thats a lot of presumptions and not alot of evidence which has been the mode of operation for this entire mess. A simple word would have sufficed instead of an orchestrated witch hunt. I dont have any ill feelings towards any other teams entered but the hate campaign instigated against us is unjust. And if the event organisers endorse it then it's easy to buy into it.
It's a tainted event now and I feel bad for the remaining teams. It will be interesting to watch still and I would urge no one to not watch it if only to see how the event officials will at some point have to address what has transpired here on a live stream.
It's going to be embarrassing for them and a mildly ammusing for me.
We will continue playing the game as it is without doubt a brilliant game just a shame that complete morons control the AT.
The ATX team should get over themselves as they are just administrating some one elses creation and are basically grunts with attitude.
Do you do deny that to any outside observer it looks like you doing exactly the same thing as last year? If a high end team can pick up any other team and share with them all of their setups, theorycraft, and spy information while working together in a single wormhole and single corp and promising to lose to the parent team if they should meet, then there is absolutely no way to differentiate that from what you are doing aside from just taking your word for it.
Hell, people would complain if PL or Darkside picked up a random high sec alliance with it's own history and pilots and then stuck them in a PL corp on sisi and gave them all of their info and jet canned them the plex to buy an auction slot. That alliance would suddenly be way more dangerous than their own skill warranted. There is no way to tell the difference between that scenario and what you guys were doing.
Any sane person would have stayed as far away from looking like you were going to repeat last year, but you guys literally did the exact same thing. Plenty of people would have practiced against you, you both could have had a different alliance scrimmage with you each week. You guys had a good chance to do well this year as separate teams, but even with CCP messing up by not answering your mails, you guys essentially came up with a plan that couldn't have made you look more like the same team. |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
148
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 21:02:00 -
[43] - Quote
ScoRpS wrote: Thats a lot of presumptions and not alot of evidence which has been the mode of operation for this entire mess. A simple word would have sufficed instead of an orchestrated witch hunt. I dont have any ill feelings towards any other teams entered but the hate campaign instigated against us is unjust. And if the event organisers endorse it then it's easy to buy into it.
It's a tainted event now and I feel bad for the remaining teams. It will be interesting to watch still and I would urge no one to not watch it if only to see how the event officials will at some point have to address what has transpired here on a live stream.
It's going to be embarrassing for them and a mildly ammusing for me.
We will continue playing the game as it is without doubt a brilliant game just a shame that complete morons control the AT.
The ATX team should get over themselves as they are just administrating some one elses creation and are basically grunts with attitude.
A witch hunt? I suppose you are the victims here...
The real victims are the teams like the PL farm team and RvB who ran into the rules put into place to combat your "brand" of fair play.
Edit: Oh btw thank you for losing your Rook last year. Your name is on the fit in my EFT. |
ScoRpS
0utbreak Outbreak.
34
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 21:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
michael boltonIII wrote:ScoRpS wrote:Thats a lot of presumptions and not alot of evidence which has been the mode of operation for this entire mess. A simple word would have sufficed instead of an orchestrated witch hunt. I dont have any ill feelings towards any other teams entered but the hate campaign instigated against us is unjust. And if the event organisers endorse it then it's easy to buy into it.
It's a tainted event now and I feel bad for the remaining teams. It will be interesting to watch still and I would urge no one to not watch it if only to see how the event officials will at some point have to address what has transpired here on a live stream.
It's going to be embarrassing for them and a mildly ammusing for me.
We will continue playing the game as it is without doubt a brilliant game just a shame that complete morons control the AT.
The ATX team should get over themselves as they are just administrating some one elses creation and are basically grunts with attitude. Do you do deny that to any outside observer it looks like you doing exactly the same thing as last year? If a high end team can pick up any other team and share with them all of their setups, theorycraft, and spy information while working together in a single wormhole and single corp and promising to lose to the parent team if they should meet, then there is absolutely no way to differentiate that from what you are doing aside from just taking your word for it. Hell, people would complain if PL or Darkside picked up a random high sec alliance with it's own history and pilots and then stuck them in a PL corp on sisi and gave them all of their info and jet canned them the plex to buy an auction slot. That alliance would suddenly be way more dangerous than their own skill warranted. There is no way to tell the difference between that scenario and what you guys were doing. Any sane person would have stayed as far away from looking like you were going to repeat last year, but you guys literally did the exact same thing. Plenty of people would have practiced against you, you both could have had a different alliance scrimmage with you each week. You guys had a good chance to do well this year as separate teams, but even with CCP messing up by not answering your mails, you guys essentially came up with a plan that couldn't have made you look more like the same team.
Again a simple word would have sufficed. But its clear to most that we were dealt with a harshness that was unjust and also inconsistant across the board.
I do understand the motivation but we are not strangers, we are part of a greater community and not unapproachable. Being treated in the manner in which we were and so openly is alienating and sets a bad precident for the management of this game. |
Officer Nyota Uhura
247
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 22:02:00 -
[45] - Quote
ScoRpS wrote:michael boltonIII wrote:Do you do deny that to any outside observer it looks like you doing exactly the same thing as last year? ... Any sane person would have stayed as far away from looking like you were going to repeat last year, but you guys literally did the exact same thing. Again a simple word would have sufficed. But its clear to most that we were dealt with a harshness that was unjust and also inconsistant across the board. I do understand the motivation but we are not strangers, we are part of a greater community and not unapproachable. Being treated in the manner in which we were and so openly is alienating and sets a bad precident for the management of this game. Please, could you just accept that you fuk'd up, HTFU and move on? It seems to me that everybody but you guys are getting tired of this discussion.
I admire your skills and dedication, and I think you'd have a very high chance of winning again this year. But now with this endless whining you guys are making yourselves look like a bunch of losers and not the hardcore veterans of cold, cruel Eve universe.
MB3 - thanks for the very good perspective to this debate. |
ScoRpS
0utbreak Outbreak.
34
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 22:08:00 -
[46] - Quote
Officer Nyota Uhura wrote:ScoRpS wrote:michael boltonIII wrote:Do you do deny that to any outside observer it looks like you doing exactly the same thing as last year? ... Any sane person would have stayed as far away from looking like you were going to repeat last year, but you guys literally did the exact same thing. Again a simple word would have sufficed. But its clear to most that we were dealt with a harshness that was unjust and also inconsistant across the board. I do understand the motivation but we are not strangers, we are part of a greater community and not unapproachable. Being treated in the manner in which we were and so openly is alienating and sets a bad precident for the management of this game. Please, could you just accept that you fuk'd up, HTFU and move on? It seems to me that everybody but you guys are getting tired of this discussion. I admire your skills and dedication, and I think you'd have a very high chance of winning again this year. But now with this endless whining you guys are making yourselves look like a bunch of losers and not the hardcore veterans of cold, cruel Eve universe. MB3 - thanks for the very good perspective to this debate.
Your an idiot who doesn't read properly. |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
149
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 22:29:00 -
[47] - Quote
ScoRpS wrote:Your an idiot who doesn't read properly.
I know you don't like playing by the rules but that might be construed as a personal attack.
Anyways. I am just going to let this fizzle and die. GG, cya next year.
|
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
99
|
Posted - 2012.05.26 22:34:00 -
[48] - Quote
Man, Hydra and their nameless alts are getting dumpstered in this thread. If you are as good at EVE as you are at forum warrioring, you wouldn't have made it very far in ATX anyway lmao |
Suitonia
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
79
|
Posted - 2012.05.27 00:35:00 -
[49] - Quote
Everyone knows you're a J4G Goon Penif m8 07 to ur t00nie |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
655
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 07:42:00 -
[50] - Quote
I'll be watching so more bandwith for me! yeey!
Regards,
me - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
|
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
289
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 09:52:00 -
[51] - Quote
Donedy wrote:Because CCP are clearly partial about the rules they made and a competition with partial judges is not a competition but a masquerade.
I guess im not alone thinking that, so please make an effort CCP and stop acting like childs.
I created a new topic because the old one is locked, and moreover you didnt answered to my questions in the last one.
well, less lag for me.
CCP setting up rules for you to act upon, not for themselves. They can do whatever they want if they think its better for the game/tournament, shooting themselves in the foot by own rules and letting players advocate their way into something would be simply plain stupid.
Banning a team which ruined one of the past events is certainly a good decision and in favor of all who watches the tournament.
|
Wheedily
Megaton Inc.
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 10:09:00 -
[52] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote: Banning a team which ruined one of the past events is certainly a good decision and in favor of all who watches the tournament.
Still interested what your notion of "ruining" is? 2 of the 3 banned teams provided tons of good entertainment on the finals weekend in AT IX. Just the final sucked...
Blahblah |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
289
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 10:14:00 -
[53] - Quote
Wheedily wrote:Robert Caldera wrote: Banning a team which ruined one of the past events is certainly a good decision and in favor of all who watches the tournament.
Still interested what your notion of "ruining" is? 2 of the 3 banned teams provided tons of good entertainment on the finals weekend in AT IX. Just the final sucked...
yeah the finals. In the climax of excitement and the last FINAL round you looked forward to came a big FU, instead of a good match. Its a ruined for me. Good they wont be able to do this again. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:12:00 -
[54] - Quote
PL-B is banned, PL allowed. HyBreak-A and HyBreak-B are banned (even though what they did - sparring, sharing tactics, etc - was explicitly stated as being fine by a senior GM, and the tournybums not responding to their questions about it)
This is more of a joke than the finale.
It's a big mix of childish grudges, buttmad and ****-poor communication/management from CCP / the tournybums |
Nevigrofnu Mrots
15
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 11:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
Donedy wrote:Because CCP are clearly partial about the rules they made and a competition with partial judges is not a competition but a masquerade.
I guess im not alone thinking that, so please make an effort CCP and stop acting like childs.
I created a new topic because the old one is locked, and moreover you didnt answered to my questions in the last one.
Good, more bandwidth for the ones that will watch it. |
Wheedily
Megaton Inc.
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 12:26:00 -
[56] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:PL-B is banned, PL allowed. HyBreak-A and HyBreak-B are banned (even though what they did - sparring, sharing tactics, etc - was explicitly stated as being fine by a senior GM, and the tournybums not responding to their questions about it)
This is more of a joke than the finale.
It's a big mix of childish grudges, buttmad and ****-poor communication/management from CCP / the tournybums
Indeed. Blahblah |
Devore Sekk
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
22
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 01:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
The tournament is not created and operated by CCP (at significant expense) for the benefit of the teams competing. It is a showcase to the EVE community and gaming community at large, and the AT9 finals were a complete farce, even if everything was technically within the rules. I expect CCP to take whatever steps necessary to create a competitive and fun event showcasing the technology of EVE and talented players' piloting abilities. |
Wheedily
Megaton Inc.
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 05:15:00 -
[58] - Quote
Devore Sekk wrote:The tournament is not created and operated by CCP (at significant expense) What was it, 26k Eur in Plex "income" this year for them to be able to host their own marketing event?
Blahblah |
Devore Sekk
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
26
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 05:56:00 -
[59] - Quote
Wheedily wrote:What was it, 26k Eur in Plex "income" this year for them to be able to host their own marketing event?
Really? And you don't think the Tournament costs just slightly more than 26k? A rigged final doesn't provide very good marketing. |
Tyzzara
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 06:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
I think that we are all taking ourselves WAY too seriously here.
After all, there is no such thing as 'bad' publicity.... right? I am interested to see how ATX unfolds on several levels. AFK Time Zone |
|
Cody Zamorah
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 07:08:00 -
[61] - Quote
AT feels more like an EVE ship now.
All rigged.
|
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
33
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 10:13:00 -
[62] - Quote
Devore Sekk wrote:The tournament is not created and operated by CCP (at significant expense) for the benefit of the teams competing. It is a showcase to the EVE community and gaming community at large, and the AT9 finals were a complete farce, even if everything was technically within the rules. I expect CCP to take whatever steps necessary to create a competitive and fun event showcasing the technology of EVE and talented players' piloting abilities.
Wanting to showcase some of the best piloting and combat EVE has to offer Banning both Hydra and Outbreak, disallowing any/all of them from competing in any form
Pick one.
You can be disappointed with the finale if you like, but you can't deny those two alliances are some of the most talented pilots out there, and banning them all outright (rather than allowing them to pick one team / merge) makes the tournament suffer. As for wanting to showcase the EVE online universe and community in general... how can you NOT include some meta-gaming shenanigans? |
Nevigrofnu Mrots
Goonswarm Federation
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 12:14:00 -
[63] - Quote
Hydra and Outbreak,
this is becoming pathetic.
If you could learn something with The Mittani scandal and ban is that you should have done the same: MAN UP, own your mistake, apologise to the Eve community (in your case for trying to corner the Tournament again this year by colluding), step back and shut up.
After doing all that, The Mittani got the ban anyway, but next year he can come back to the CSM (if he wish to) and at this moment his record is clean, his conscience is clean, almost everyone is happy with is actions and the drama is over.
If you had done that already, maybe, just maybe, that last spot would have been given to one of you or a mix team, but no, you can't read in between the lines... wake up and learn how to play the "Game".
Continue on this path and next year the drama will not be about the ban but about the fact you might not even be allowed to enter. Please continue to insult CCP and their staff by making accusations, pointing fingers and soon, very soon, someone with power will get annoyed, will remove the F*** Y** hammer from the closet and will hit you both with it.
yes continue on this path... this will end well
One more time to see if this sticks in our brains: own your mistake, apologise, step back, shut up and wait. |
ScoRpS
0utbreak Outbreak.
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 13:00:00 -
[64] - Quote
We have stepped back.
In retrospect it was an excercise in futility from the moment the post was put up about our removal. The debate has run its course now and all that is left is to perhaps look forward to next years Tournament.
It's a big event that we all look forward to each year. No one "wants" to mess it up.
|
Cody Zamorah
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 13:06:00 -
[65] - Quote
Nevigrofnu Mrots wrote:
If you could learn something with The Mittani scandal and ban is that you should have done the same: MAN UP, own your mistake, apologise to the Eve community (in your case for trying to corner the Tournament again this year by colluding), step back and shut up.
One more time to see if this sticks in our brains: own your mistake, apologise, step back, shut up and wait.
Slight difference there is that The Mittani broke a rule. Hydra and Outbreak it got assumed they were planning on breaking a rule without a shred of evidence this was actually going to be true. They got trailed and convicted on not breaking any rules in AT9 and assuming they would break a rule now. Does this mean that all Tier 3 battlecruisers who are fit the same way as they were fit for Boomerang tactics to get banned because it looks like they are going to break a rule?
Why wait or communicate. It looks suspicious so let's ban.
Proactive moderating at it's best. Damn all proof. Damn the fact that Hydra and Outbreak didn't break any rules. The mere fact I can concoct something vaguely discerning out of it is enough to doom them.
|
Duncan Tanner
Genos Occidere
236
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 13:31:00 -
[66] - Quote
Nevigrofnu Mrots wrote:Hydra and Outbreak,
this is becoming pathetic.
Whoever is continuing to make posts about what happened is only representing themselves and I don't recognize them as alts of either Hydra or Outbreak.
I can speak for Hydra leadership at least and we've already said all we need to say on behalf of our alliance as of several days ago. I don't know how much of it has been deleted but it's all on eve-search anyway.
As far as the rest of your post, it seems you've been drinking the CCP cool aid. - |
Cody Zamorah
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
70
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 13:47:00 -
[67] - Quote
Confirming I am not a Hydra or Outbreak alt. But that won't be believed anyways. But that is up to everone's own sense or vieuwing it.
I post on own merit and am in no way affiliated with any side but mine.
|
Spark's
Terra Hawks The Initiative.
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 13:57:00 -
[68] - Quote
I personally will take your bandwidth up. Thanks |
Tear Miner
Republic University Minmatar Republic
138
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 17:37:00 -
[69] - Quote
The scandals this year have been entertaining. Mitannigate first and now OBHydraGate :) |
NinjaTurtle
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 21:48:00 -
[70] - Quote
can anyone else not wait till ATX is over and we can go back to reading about this bull**** on en24 |
|
Ltd SpacePig
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
14
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 21:34:00 -
[71] - Quote
Hydra and Outbreak cheated.. and they tried to do it again.. and this time got caught doing it.. and still people are mad at CCP for not having them in the Alliance Tournament? I mean.. Hydra & Outbreak are awesome pvp:ers.. they don't have to cheat to be good at this and win.. so why do it? The rules has been very clear and posted in good time.. and still these two alliance choose to cheat... this is what i don't get about this.. why??
Anyway.. would had been awesome to meet them in the tournament.. but i guess that have to wait until next year. This tournament wont be the same without these teams.. |
Cody Zamorah
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
89
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 21:52:00 -
[72] - Quote
You know. I checked the rules over and over and I just can't find where they broke a rule. But that remains in the eye of the beholder.
Unless you can point out to me where people changing corp or even alliance on the testserver is also strictly forbidden. The I will appologise. P.S. I won't appologise ofcourse if that rule was added after these occurances.
|
Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
48
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 22:00:00 -
[73] - Quote
Ltd SpacePig wrote:Hydra and Outbreak cheated.. and they tried to do it again.. and this time got caught doing it.. and still people are mad at CCP for not having them in the Alliance Tournament? I mean.. Hydra & Outbreak are awesome pvp:ers.. they don't have to cheat to be good at this and win.. so why do it? The rules has been very clear and posted in good time.. and still these two alliance choose to cheat... this is what i don't get about this.. why?? Anyway.. would had been awesome to meet them in the tournament.. but i guess that have to wait until next year. This tournament wont be the same without these teams..
They cheated again? At the very minimum, this was the first year that they cheated because nothing last year was against the rules. You ask why they would "cheat." Indeed, why would any group of experienced PvPers want to fight against another. I know, maybe they should have fought TEST with their shield tanked laser Megathron... comedy km ftw.
I want to see the eve-mail or chat log where Garmon says he is going to bend over for 0utbreak. I seriously doubt that CCP can produce those logs and the obvious conclusion is that they are still butt-hurt for last years poorly designed rules. |
Ltd SpacePig
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 00:20:00 -
[74] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote:
They cheated again? At the very minimum, this was the first year that they cheated because nothing last year was against the rules. You ask why they would "cheat." Indeed, why would any group of experienced PvPers want to fight against another. I know, maybe they should have fought TEST with their shield tanked laser Megathron... comedy km ftw.
I want to see the eve-mail or chat log where Garmon says he is going to bend over for 0utbreak. I seriously doubt that CCP can produce those logs and the obvious conclusion is that they are still butt-hurt for last years poorly designed rules.
So the final last year wasn't cheating? After the final last year everyone was on CCP ass to fix so it didn't happen again this year. So CCP changes some of the rules to make sure this doesn't happen again. They also decide to keep a very close eye on some of the teams from last year.. including Hydra and Outbreak because of their little stunt last year witch in many peoples eyes was cheating. Its very clear from the information in the devblog that Hydra and Outbreak where trying break the rules. CCP doesn't need to have any chat logs or evemails.. such a deal would have been done outside off the game.. in a TS room or a outside chat channel where CCP has no access anyway, so asking for such proof is just being stupid. CCP are watching what the teams are doing and from that information they will act.
The whole excuse about this being "we are so elite so we need to fight other super elite players" are pretty naive and lame. Again looking at the information that was in the devblog it shows that this wasn't just about "training" it was about other stuff to..and adding them together with the training gives a pretty clear picture on what was going on...
What is kind of making me lose abit of respect for these guys are that they after last years stunt made a public apology and so on.. said they where sorry and everything.. and then they go and do this.. and then when caught with their pants down they turn this into a circus and trying their best to blame everything on CCP.. its really lame.. and i'm surprised that anyone would want to defend what they done. |
Cody Zamorah
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
89
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 00:40:00 -
[75] - Quote
No, AT9 they did NOT cheat. They followed all rules as were laid out.
To assume they would break the rules this year stay an assumption and CCP only proactivly kicked them on a guttfeeling build upon last year. However they refuse to acknowledge that Hydra and Outbreak didn't get a ban, reprimande or any other punishment at AT9 because there were no rules broken. Becaue that would take a lot of basis away on which this years ban is build. Was it good play? No. Was it against the AT9 rules? No.
So basicly they didn't break a rule back then but let's just assume they will now. Much easier than actually communicating. And we call it "They were going to break the rules" and with all the butthurt feelings around most of the players will swallow that explenation anyways. Let's also bring in the CCP cheerleader squad and then some random wannabees will hop on aswel and voila. CCP get's it's proactive revenge and the players cheer for a biased ruling because they can't see passt their hurt feelings over AT9.
Those who are too vocal about it will receive their warnings about being stripped of their posting priviledges or just get forum banned if they remain vocal. A little deletion here and there and we are back to business as usual.
|
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1476
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 01:25:00 -
[76] - Quote
Cody Zamorah wrote:No, AT9 they did NOT cheat. They followed all rules as were laid out.
To assume they would break the rules this year stay an assumption and CCP only proactivly kicked them on a guttfeeling build upon last year. However they refuse to acknowledge that Hydra and Outbreak didn't get a ban, reprimande or any other punishment at AT9 because there were no rules broken. Becaue that would take a lot of basis away on which this years ban is build. Was it good play? No. Was it against the AT9 rules? No.
So basicly they didn't break a rule back then but let's just assume they will now. Much easier than actually communicating. And we call it "They were going to break the rules" and with all the butthurt feelings around most of the players will swallow that explenation anyways. Let's also bring in the CCP cheerleader squad and then some random wannabees will hop on aswel and voila. CCP get's it's proactive revenge and the players cheer for a biased ruling because they can't see passt their hurt feelings over AT9.
Those who are too vocal about it will receive their warnings about being stripped of their posting priviledges or just get forum banned if they remain vocal. A little deletion here and there and we are back to business as usual.
What? "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
|
Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
48
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 03:12:00 -
[77] - Quote
Ltd SpacePig wrote:Karbox Delacroix wrote:
They cheated again? At the very minimum, this was the first year that they cheated because nothing last year was against the rules. You ask why they would "cheat." Indeed, why would any group of experienced PvPers want to fight against another. I know, maybe they should have fought TEST with their shield tanked laser Megathron... comedy km ftw.
I want to see the eve-mail or chat log where Garmon says he is going to bend over for 0utbreak. I seriously doubt that CCP can produce those logs and the obvious conclusion is that they are still butt-hurt for last years poorly designed rules.
So the final last year wasn't cheating? After the final last year everyone was on CCP ass to fix so it didn't happen again this year. So CCP changes some of the rules to make sure this doesn't happen again. They also decide to keep a very close eye on some of the teams from last year.. including Hydra and Outbreak because of their little stunt last year witch in many peoples eyes was cheating. Its very clear from the information in the devblog that Hydra and Outbreak where trying break the rules. CCP doesn't need to have any chat logs or evemails.. such a deal would have been done outside off the game.. in a TS room or a outside chat channel where CCP has no access anyway, so asking for such proof is just being stupid. CCP are watching what the teams are doing and from that information they will act. The whole excuse about this being "we are so elite so we need to fight other super elite players" are pretty naive and lame. Again looking at the information that was in the devblog it shows that this wasn't just about "training" it was about other stuff to..and adding them together with the training gives a pretty clear picture on what was going on... What is kind of making me lose abit of respect for these guys are that they after last years stunt made a public apology and so on.. said they where sorry and everything.. and then they go and do this.. and then when caught with their pants down they turn this into a circus and trying their best to blame everything on CCP.. its really lame.. and i'm surprised that anyone would want to defend what they done.
That is correct, the final last year was not cheating. It was bad TV, but bad TV is only enough to get you in trouble the following year when vague rules allow :CCP: to ban you for entrapment.
You are also correct about TS rooms and outside channels. Contrary to what some blues have claimed, :CCP: is not psychic. They cannot know that people are plotting to collude unless those people are dumb enough to use the in game chat channels. It has already been stated that sparring is allowed so inferring that sparring is cheating is merely a pathetic excuse for mouth breathing forum trolls to revenge themselves upon their betters. These are the same trolls that respond with inanities like: "cool story bro" and other such idiocies. They contribute nothing and are below contempt.
As for your line about elite pvp, it is up to the individual team to decide who they want to spar against. They received permission from CCP and given the training practices of other alliances it was not an unreasonable request. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
87
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 03:44:00 -
[78] - Quote
They didn't get banned for entrapment, and they didn't get permission from CCP to do whatever the hell they felt like under the catch-all term "practise", simply sparring against other teams is entirely different from sharing logistics / theorycraft / SiSi corporation / intel / girlfriends
( even if the GM had approved all that, which he didn't, taking his word for it would be pretty dumb since he's not on the tournament team and like all GMs basically just tech support )
You are right about CCP basing their ban on guesswork and appearances, something anyone who actually read the rules should've expected and acted accordingly. (No firing off emails where you ask permission for a very limited part of what you're doing is not sufficient) |
michael boltonIII
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
198
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 04:19:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Cody Zamorah wrote:No, AT9 they did NOT cheat. They followed all rules as were laid out.
To assume they would break the rules this year stay an assumption and CCP only proactivly kicked them on a guttfeeling build upon last year. However they refuse to acknowledge that Hydra and Outbreak didn't get a ban, reprimande or any other punishment at AT9 because there were no rules broken. Becaue that would take a lot of basis away on which this years ban is build. Was it good play? No. Was it against the AT9 rules? No.
So basicly they didn't break a rule back then but let's just assume they will now. Much easier than actually communicating. And we call it "They were going to break the rules" and with all the butthurt feelings around most of the players will swallow that explenation anyways. Let's also bring in the CCP cheerleader squad and then some random wannabees will hop on aswel and voila. CCP get's it's proactive revenge and the players cheer for a biased ruling because they can't see passt their hurt feelings over AT9.
Those who are too vocal about it will receive their warnings about being stripped of their posting priviledges or just get forum banned if they remain vocal. A little deletion here and there and we are back to business as usual.
What?
English isn't his first language, I like to look at all his posts as if he is the bizarre combination of a flowery poet and a recently unfrozen cave man. |
NinjaTurtle
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
15
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 04:33:00 -
[80] - Quote
gets his point across though. also,
Cody Zamorah wrote:CCP cheerleader squad pics |
|
Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
48
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 04:34:00 -
[81] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:They didn't get banned for entrapment, and they didn't get permission from CCP to do whatever the hell they felt like under the catch-all term "practise", simply sparring against other teams is entirely different from sharing logistics / theorycraft / SiSi corporation / intel / girlfriends
( even if the GM had approved all that, which he didn't, taking his word for it would be pretty dumb since he's not on the tournament team and like all GMs basically just tech support )
You are right about CCP basing their ban on guesswork and appearances, something anyone who actually read the rules should've expected and acted accordingly. (No firing off emails where you ask permission for a very limited part of what you're doing is not sufficient)
It is entirely unclear why one would think sharing logistics would be disqualifying. Large alliances, by definition, have more people and can assign more people to hauling and fitting ships and mods. If it is inappropriate to ease logistical burdens then you are implicitly biasing the tournament in favor of larger alliances.
Theorycraft and intel will be considered as the same thing for purposes of this discussion. The first point is that since sparring is allowed, no one disputes this, then one would obviously get kill mails from any ships destroyed. In addition to this, logs show which weapons do what damage and one can infer parts of the fit from the amount of damage being done to you relative to your native resits. Also, if you have fraps running and a decently setup overview, you can see the speed at which enemy ships are traveling and infer if they are using an AB, MWD, or even a Nano fit. You can learn a lot from sparring. Secondly, there is no way to monitor out of game communication. It is like banning steroids while having no way to test for them. Such a rule does not further the integrity of the tournament because it enables the least scrupulous to take advantage of it. Also, it has been specifically stated that one is allowed to spy on the Test server.
I don't know why anyone thinks joining the same corporation on SiSi has any relevance on anything. SiSi is like double internet spaceships. If EVE is real, then SiSi is that real thing playing a game of make believe.
Regarding the sharing of girlfriends, they are adults and are allowed to engage in whatever sexual practices they feel comfortable with. |
Chekxxx
Megaton Inc.
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 05:48:00 -
[82] - Quote
Cody Zamorah wrote:No, AT9 they did NOT cheat. They followed all rules as were laid out.
To assume they would break the rules this year stay an assumption and CCP only proactivly kicked them on a guttfeeling build upon last year. However they refuse to acknowledge that Hydra and Outbreak didn't get a ban, reprimande or any other punishment at AT9 because there were no rules broken. Becaue that would take a lot of basis away on which this years ban is build. Was it good play? No. Was it against the AT9 rules? No.
So basicly they didn't break a rule back then but let's just assume they will now. Much easier than actually communicating. And we call it "They were going to break the rules" and with all the butthurt feelings around most of the players will swallow that explenation anyways. Let's also bring in the CCP cheerleader squad and then some random wannabees will hop on aswel and voila. CCP get's it's proactive revenge and the players cheer for a biased ruling because they can't see passt their hurt feelings over AT9.
Those who are too vocal about it will receive their warnings about being stripped of their posting priviledges or just get forum banned if they remain vocal. A little deletion here and there and we are back to business as usual.
This post is spot on. Getting the dev and fanboy treatment just proves that... |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
87
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 06:16:00 -
[83] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote:Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:They didn't get banned for entrapment, and they didn't get permission from CCP to do whatever the hell they felt like under the catch-all term "practise", simply sparring against other teams is entirely different from sharing logistics / theorycraft / SiSi corporation / intel / girlfriends
( even if the GM had approved all that, which he didn't, taking his word for it would be pretty dumb since he's not on the tournament team and like all GMs basically just tech support )
You are right about CCP basing their ban on guesswork and appearances, something anyone who actually read the rules should've expected and acted accordingly. (No firing off emails where you ask permission for a very limited part of what you're doing is not sufficient) It is entirely unclear why one would think sharing logistics would be disqualifying. Large alliances, by definition, have more people and can assign more people to hauling and fitting ships and mods. If it is inappropriate to ease logistical burdens then you are implicitly biasing the tournament in favor of larger alliances. Theorycraft and intel will be considered as the same thing for purposes of this discussion. The first point is that since sparring is allowed, no one disputes this, then one would obviously get kill mails from any ships destroyed. In addition to this, logs show which weapons do what damage and one can infer parts of the fit from the amount of damage being done to you relative to your native resits. Also, if you have fraps running and a decently setup overview, you can see the speed at which enemy ships are traveling and infer if they are using an AB, MWD, or even a Nano fit. You can learn a lot from sparring. Secondly, there is no way to monitor out of game communication. It is like banning steroids while having no way to test for them. Such a rule does not further the integrity of the tournament because it enables the least scrupulous to take advantage of it. Also, it has been specifically stated that one is allowed to spy on the Test server. I don't know why anyone thinks joining the same corporation on SiSi has any relevance on anything. SiSi is like double internet spaceships. If EVE is real, then SiSi is that real thing playing a game of make believe. Regarding the sharing of girlfriends, they are adults and are allowed to engage in whatever sexual practices they feel comfortable with.
They worked too closely together (or appeared to), more so than anyone else.
Personally I would've simply told them to stop working so closely together, but maybe CCP felt like they had already done so by introducing the rule in the first place and thought they deserved more than a slap on the wrist - maybe that's vindictive, petty or w/e, can't say I'll lose sleep over it.
( only thing that really bothers me about all this is that it's extremely lame and bad for the tournament itself not having a defending champion )
I wouldn't have banned either team since I don't think they were going to work together in the tourney itself, nor YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT since I'm reasonably sure they were working completely independently from PL.
But the people putting in the actual work and running things made a judgement call, as is their right. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 07:47:00 -
[84] - Quote
Nevigrofnu Mrots wrote:Hydra and Outbreak,
this is becoming pathetic.
If you could learn something with The Mittani scandal and ban is that you should have done the same: MAN UP, own your mistake, apologise to the Eve community (in your case for trying to corner the Tournament again this year by colluding), step back and shut up.
After doing all that, The Mittani got the ban anyway, but next year he can come back to the CSM (if he wish to) and at this moment his record is clean, his conscience is clean, almost everyone is happy with is actions and the drama is over.
If you had done that already, maybe, just maybe, that last spot would have been given to one of you or a mix team, but no, you can't read in between the lines... wake up and learn how to play the "Game".
Continue on this path and next year the drama will not be about the ban but about the fact you might not even be allowed to enter. Please continue to insult CCP and their staff by making accusations, pointing fingers and soon, very soon, someone with power will get annoyed, will remove the F*** Y** hammer from the closet and will hit you both with it.
yes continue on this path... this will end well
One more time to see if this sticks in our brains: own your mistake, apologise, step back, shut up and wait.
Whats all this bloody babbling about mittani, how is that situation even remotely similar? You may not have realised, but this thread is about the tournament and the champions of last year, not your manlove for mittani. And in that regard, what Hydra and Outbreak did was not a breach of the rules - in fact what they did was explicitly stated as being ok. It's not rocket science bro, it's just the bums running the tourny being buttsore and biased
|
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
114
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 08:14:00 -
[85] - Quote
Hydra/outbreak stull butthurt?
Pfft get over it, your ruined it last year and wont do it again this year.
Get what you deserve. Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 09:34:00 -
[86] - Quote
Gibbo3771 wrote:Hydra/outbreak stull butthurt?
Pfft get over it, your ruined it last year and wont do it again this year.
Lmao at people claiming they "ruined it". I don't get this at all - hydra and outbreak were responsible for some of the best fights in the last tournament (just not the final, but the dozen other great matches more than make up for that, as far as I'm concerned).
Gibbo3771 wrote:Get what you deserve.
The new rules aren't - or shouldn't, at least - be about this kind of petty vengeance, it should be about doing whats best for the tournament. Outright banning the champions from last year, showing clear bias and unfair enforcement of rules, etc does not accomplish that. It's sad that not only players but even the people running the tourny don't seem to get this, and are just caught up in their own overreactions and rage |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
751
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 11:39:00 -
[87] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:[ Outright banning the champions from last year, showing clear bias and unfair enforcement of rules, etc does not accomplish that. It's sad that not only players but even the people running the tourny don't seem to get this, and are just caught up in their own overreactions and rage
Maybe if you understood the rules and their intent you would realize that they're not showing bias or unfair enforcement of the rules.
To be specific, B and C teams can be disqualified, and if the offense is bad enough, even the A team can be disqualified, and finally, colluding is an offense thats outright bannable.
The other groups that had teams that could be seen as potential 'b' teams had those teams removed. Their 'A' teams were allowed to continue unmolested as per the rules
The team that asked if it could test against itself, then later all joined one corp was banned for colluding, mainly because that is exactly what they were doing, colluding (you cannot argue that everybody joining one corp is anything but colluding as there isn't any real separation in the teams at that point).
I tried to do this without being insulting in anyway (a feat of strength for me) because there seems to be a lot of misconceptions about what rules were broken by who and how they were enforced.
We can understand that it might **** you off that you dont get to watch them compete, but you're mad at the wrong people, they knew full well what they were doing when they did what they did, and they knew the possible outcome.
They just didn't care.
|
Duncan Tanner
Genos Occidere
245
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 13:59:00 -
[88] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:The team that asked if it could test against itself, then later all joined one corp was banned for colluding, mainly because that is exactly what they were doing, colluding (you cannot argue that everybody joining one corp is anything but colluding as there isn't any real separation in the teams at that point).
I think there is a misconception here that joining one corp due to wormhole logistics and POS mechanics is a very different thing than being in two corps in a single wormhole testing against each other.
The perceived boundary of being in separate corporations on the test server is completely artificial when you consider that two groups that test exclusively against each other will know and understand every setup used against them anyway. Being in separate corporations does not factor into or affect this at all.
If we in any way thought what we were doing was wrong or if we were trying to hide it I very much doubt we would've acted in a way that so many people see as "a clear breach of the rules." - |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:34:00 -
[89] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:[ Outright banning the champions from last year, showing clear bias and unfair enforcement of rules, etc does not accomplish that. It's sad that not only players but even the people running the tourny don't seem to get this, and are just caught up in their own overreactions and rage Maybe if you understood the rules and their intent you would realize that they're not showing bias or unfair enforcement of the rules. To be specific, B and C teams can be disqualified, and if the offense is bad enough, even the A team can be disqualified, and finally, colluding is an offense thats outright bannable. The other groups that had teams that could be seen as potential 'b' teams had those teams removed. Their 'A' teams were allowed to continue unmolested as per the rules The team that asked if it could test against itself, then later all joined one corp was banned for colluding, mainly because that is exactly what they were doing, colluding (you cannot argue that everybody joining one corp is anything but colluding as there isn't any real separation in the teams at that point). I tried to do this without being insulting in anyway (a feat of strength for me) because there seems to be a lot of misconceptions about what rules were broken by who and how they were enforced. We can understand that it might **** you off that you dont get to watch them compete, but you're mad at the wrong people, they knew full well what they were doing when they did what they did, and they knew the possible outcome. They just didn't care.
I fully understand the rules and intent. The bloody point is that their actions on the test server don't warrant banning both teams at all - thats why it reeks of bias to me. They were explicitly told they could train with each other, share fits, tactics, etc. Being in one corp on the test server means absolutely nothing.
|
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
751
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 18:41:00 -
[90] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote: They were explicitly told they could train with each other, share fits, tactics, etc. Being in one corp on the test server means absolutely nothing.
No they weren't, they were told they could test against one another, but warned to be careful of the colluding rule, they were NEVER told they could share fits and tactics at all.
Re read the GM response, the go ahead was given simply to test against one another, not to join the same corp, not to share fits, not to share tactics, that is an absolute fabrication. |
|
Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
48
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 19:40:00 -
[91] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote: They were explicitly told they could train with each other, share fits, tactics, etc. Being in one corp on the test server means absolutely nothing.
No they weren't, they were told they could test against one another, but warned to be careful of the colluding rule, they were NEVER told they could share fits and tactics at all. Re read the GM response, the go ahead was given simply to test against one another, not to join the same corp, not to share fits, not to share tactics, that is an absolute fabrication.
Right, because when you test against someone, afterwards you immediately forget their fleet composition and you never ever, ever, look at the kill reports or even your combat logs.
The argument cannot be that they could test against each other so long as neither side benefited from doing so. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
751
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 19:58:00 -
[92] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote:
Right, because when you test against someone, afterwards you immediately forget their fleet composition and you never ever, ever, look at the kill reports or even your combat logs.
The argument cannot be that they could test against each other so long as neither side benefited from doing so.
So what you're saying is that no amount of reason and normal discourse is going to sway you from your course of :mad: then.
I mean you were already making up stuff about how the GM's said its ok for them to share fits and when its pointed out to you that in fact that was NOT what they were given permission to do, and that they were actually warned to be careful of the colluding rule, AND that they had a rule enacted specifically targeting them and what they did last year, yet you stick your fingers in your ears and go lalalalalallala about it all.
I mean seriously, I don't understand how you can be presented with all the facts and still hold your stance that CCP was somehow in the wrong.
Hydra and Outbreak were in the wrong, point blank. Not partially, not because there wasn't enough conversation between them and the tourney team, they were simply flat out going to try again to do what they did last year by doing exactly what they did last year
But this is all pointless because you as a human are beyond the point of seeing reason and logic, you're just going to be mad about it no matter what.
I bet you thought Nixon got a raw deal too. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2413
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 20:07:00 -
[93] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote: They were explicitly told they could train with each other, share fits, tactics, etc. Being in one corp on the test server means absolutely nothing.
No they weren't, they were told they could test against one another, but warned to be careful of the colluding rule, they were NEVER told they could share fits and tactics at all. Re read the GM response, the go ahead was given simply to test against one another, not to join the same corp, not to share fits, not to share tactics, that is an absolute fabrication. Right, because when you test against someone, afterwards you immediately forget their fleet composition and you never ever, ever, look at the kill reports or even your combat logs. The argument cannot be that they could test against each other so long as neither side benefited from doing so.
It isn't. It's that separate entities participating in the tournament can't be colluding to the effect, that they can be seen as being a single entity. Sparring against other separate teams and learning and improving yourselves is just fine. Getting rid of that separation and acting as a single entity is not. |
Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
48
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 21:13:00 -
[94] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Karbox Delacroix wrote:
Right, because when you test against someone, afterwards you immediately forget their fleet composition and you never ever, ever, look at the kill reports or even your combat logs.
The argument cannot be that they could test against each other so long as neither side benefited from doing so.
So what you're saying is that no amount of reason and normal discourse is going to sway you from your course of :mad: then. I mean you were already making up stuff about how the GM's said its ok for them to share fits and when its pointed out to you that in fact that was NOT what they were given permission to do, and that they were actually warned to be careful of the colluding rule, AND that they had a rule enacted specifically targeting them and what they did last year, yet you stick your fingers in your ears and go lalalalalallala about it all. I mean seriously, I don't understand how you can be presented with all the facts and still hold your stance that CCP was somehow in the wrong. Hydra and Outbreak were in the wrong, point blank. Not partially, not because there wasn't enough conversation between them and the tourney team, they were simply flat out going to try again to do what they did last year by d oing exactly what they did last year
But this is all pointless because you as a human are beyond the point of seeing reason and logic, you're just going to be mad about it no matter what. I bet you thought Nixon got a raw deal too.
The rule change was in response to 0utbreak throwing the final match. No one has presented any evidence that either group was planning to throw a fight. Throwing a fight made for bad television. You claim they were going to repeat last years performance. Prove it. Use your mighty psychic powers and peer into the hearts of men. Tell us, which of them was going to throw the fight? Was it Hydra's turn to take a dive? Enlighten us with your awesome powers of prognostication.
You are allowed to spy on the test server. That is completely acceptable. If knowledge is power, then knowledge of your opponents tactics would presumably create a very lopsided fight. That is bad television, but it is entirely within the rules.
You are allowed to spar on the test server. That is completely acceptable. When you spar against someone not only do you get to see their fleet composition, any kills generate detailed kill reports. If one is concerned about the sharing of theory and fits, then one must by extension be against sparring. CCP allows sparring so we can infer that they place little weight on the importance of the information that is being generated.
Larger alliances have certain natural advantages. They have more people and resources to draw from. As the saying goes many hands makes for light work. Advantage is relative. If someone has an advantage then someone else has a disadvantage. It is not unreasonable that a smaller alliance would want to ease the logistical burdens that come from their smaller size.
As stated above, there are many ways that information can be legitimately disseminated. Sparring is allowed. The meta game is allowed. Spying is allowed. CCP cannot hope to monitor any communications that occur outside the game. It is preposterous to claim that the integrity of the Alliance Tournament depends upon corp membership upon the test server. |
Jslice
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 21:28:00 -
[95] - Quote
Exactly, sparring is and was allowed, the GM's gave no permission and never would have to join the same corp.
Outbreak Reloaded forced CCP's hand by doing that end of story. I can't believe that it didn't cross the tourny teams mind, after all, they can create set ups that just rock, but can't use some common sence to figure out joining the same corp would be a massive nono.
The worst thing about Outbreak Reloaded being booted is that we will now lose to Test or something hilarious instead of a tourny powerhouse. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
751
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 22:00:00 -
[96] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote:
The rule change was in response to 0utbreak throwing the final match. No one has presented any evidence that either group was planning to throw a fight. Throwing a fight made for bad television. You claim they were going to repeat last years performance. Prove it. Use your mighty psychic powers and peer into the hearts of men. Tell us, which of them was going to throw the fight? Was it Hydra's turn to take a dive? Enlighten us with your awesome powers of prognostication.
So you're saying you didn't read the post they made after the tournament last year (or the reference that was made to it last week) where they admitted to colluding and said that they were just too exhausted to properly pull off a fake finale then?
Since they admitted that they colluded last year, and then made the exact same motions this year as they did last year, we can infer from that their intent to collude yet again.
Or at least thats what all the sane people would do.
This is not court, you are not innocent until proven guilty here, if you act in a manner that resembles an action you have taken before it is not outside of reason to assume that you'll do it again if allowed.
I'm sorry you can't accept reality but I guess that burden is yours alone to bear since even Outbreak has outright came out and said they know and accept what they did wrong and hope that they can avoid such problems next year.
The rest of us hope they can too, so I guess that just leaves you, angry at the world and completely delusional |
Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
48
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 22:23:00 -
[97] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Karbox Delacroix wrote:
The rule change was in response to 0utbreak throwing the final match. No one has presented any evidence that either group was planning to throw a fight. Throwing a fight made for bad television. You claim they were going to repeat last years performance. Prove it. Use your mighty psychic powers and peer into the hearts of men. Tell us, which of them was going to throw the fight? Was it Hydra's turn to take a dive? Enlighten us with your awesome powers of prognostication.
So you're saying you didn't read the post they made after the tournament last year (or the reference that was made to it last week) where they admitted to colluding and said that they were just too exhausted to properly pull off a fake finale then? Since they admitted that they colluded last year, and then made the exact same motions this year as they did last year, we can infer from that their intent to collude yet again. Or at least thats what all the sane people would do. This is not court, you are not innocent until proven guilty here, if you act in a manner that resembles an action you have taken before it is not outside of reason to assume that you'll do it again if allowed. I'm sorry you can't accept reality but I guess that burden is yours alone to bear since even Outbreak has outright came out and said they know and accept what they did wrong and hope that they can avoid such problems next year. The rest of us hope they can too, so I guess that just leaves you, angry at the world and completely delusional
Given that I have already stated that 0utbreak took a dive in the final round it is unclear what you are attempting to prove with your fist paragraph. Given that colluding was allowed last year, one thing we do know is that Hydra/0utbreak were very careful to follow the letter of the law. That is why it is improper to infer that they would collude again. It is also unclear why people believe that banding together on the Test server is a necessary prerequisite to collusion.
I find it interesting that the person claiming everyone else is :mad: and illogical feels no need to burden himself with such trivial things as evidence or burden of proof. We must remember that a third team was banned from the tournament. If we are to dispense with the presumption of innocence, then where does that leave YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT? |
Shiwan Khan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 22:53:00 -
[98] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Karbox Delacroix wrote:
The rule change was in response to 0utbreak throwing the final match. No one has presented any evidence that either group was planning to throw a fight. Throwing a fight made for bad television. You claim they were going to repeat last years performance. Prove it. Use your mighty psychic powers and peer into the hearts of men. Tell us, which of them was going to throw the fight? Was it Hydra's turn to take a dive? Enlighten us with your awesome powers of prognostication.
So you're saying you didn't read the post they made after the tournament last year (or the reference that was made to it last week) where they admitted to colluding and said that they were just too exhausted to properly pull off a fake finale then? Since they admitted that they colluded last year, and then made the exact same motions this year as they did last year, we can infer from that their intent to collude yet again. Or at least thats what all the sane people would do. This is not court, you are not innocent until proven guilty here, if you act in a manner that resembles an action you have taken before it is not outside of reason to assume that you'll do it again if allowed. I'm sorry you can't accept reality but I guess that burden is yours alone to bear since even Outbreak has outright came out and said they know and accept what they did wrong and hope that they can avoid such problems next year. The rest of us hope they can too, so I guess that just leaves you, angry at the world and completely delusional Given that I have already stated that 0utbreak took a dive in the final round it is unclear what you are attempting to prove with your fist paragraph. Given that colluding was allowed last year, one thing we do know is that Hydra/0utbreak were very careful to follow the letter of the law. That is why it is improper to infer that they would collude again. It is also unclear why people believe that banding together on the Test server is a necessary prerequisite to collusion. I find it interesting that the person claiming everyone else is :mad: and illogical feels no need to burden himself with such trivial things as evidence or burden of proof. We must remember that a third team was banned from the tournament. If we are to dispense with the presumption of innocence, then where does that leave YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT?
Not sure if master troll or first year pre-law. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
751
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 00:48:00 -
[99] - Quote
Karbox Delacroix wrote: If we are to dispense with the presumption of innocence, then where does that leave YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT? Removed under the B team rule, which is not the rule that Hydra was removed under, that seems really hard for you to understand.
RvB had to enter under a unified team, they cleared that up really early. Waffles, though only a school, were told their ties to us were to close. They were told they weren't allowed to enter.
That is the B team rule in action, to the letter of the law (none of which you've read as you've proven through your posting of completely random and made up ****).
Hydra and Outbreak asked to spar together, they were given the green light. They then all joined a single corp and began basically operating as a single unit in preparations for the coming tournament just as they did last year, thats last year when they colluded.
If I were to walk up and openhanded slap you in the face, then leave, and one year later approach you in the exact same manner, I dare say you'd do your best to make sure I couldn't or didn't slap you.
This is the same thing in action. Hydra, presented the exact same profile as last year, and CCP has reacted to avoid a similar situation this year.
I'm sorry you can't tell the difference in the rules regarding the teams that were removed, and I'm sorry that you can't see the basic business logic that's involved in what has happened, but it is what it is and the tournament will go on with you angry. |
Karbox Delacroix
Emo Rage Quit
48
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 03:30:00 -
[100] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Karbox Delacroix wrote: If we are to dispense with the presumption of innocence, then where does that leave YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT? Removed under the B team rule, which is not the rule that Hydra was removed under, that seems really hard for you to understand. RvB had to enter under a unified team, they cleared that up really early. Waffles, though only a school, were told their ties to us were to close. They were told they weren't allowed to enter. That is the B team rule in action, to the letter of the law (none of which you've read as you've proven through your posting of completely random and made up ****). Hydra and Outbreak asked to spar together, they were given the green light. They then all joined a single corp and began basically operating as a single unit in preparations for the coming tournament just as they did last year, thats last year when they colluded. If I were to walk up and openhanded slap you in the face, then leave, and one year later approach you in the exact same manner, I dare say you'd do your best to make sure I couldn't or didn't slap you. This is the same thing in action. Hydra, presented the exact same profile as last year, and CCP has reacted to avoid a similar situation this year. I'm sorry you can't tell the difference in the rules regarding the teams that were removed, and I'm sorry that you can't see the basic business logic that's involved in what has happened, but it is what it is and the tournament will go on with you angry.
Your argument proves too much. If you want to deny the presumption of innocence, then the appearance of impropriety is all that is needed to prove nefarious intent. You allow Hydra/0utbreak no further explanation, so you may offer none yourself. Your hatred towards Hydra/0utbreak is clouding your judgement. Your bias is obvious in that the same charitable interpretation you apply to yourself, you deny to others.
It is also interesting that you seem hell bent on insisting that before one can throw a fight, they must first team up together in the same wormhole on the test server. There are many allowed forms of cooperation that do not run foul of any rules. Presumably any communications regarding either team taking a dive would have occurred outside the game or those communications would have been published. You do realize that they don't actually have to spar against each other to collude? That is why the new rules are so very weak. CCP is incapable of monitoring the meta-game and unable to detect or quash any back room deals. They have banned steroids but no one is forced to pee in a cup.
Of course the tournament will go on. The point of this entire exercise is that CCP needs clearer rules and direct lines of communication with the AT team. Since you are so dedicated to arguing about appearances, it appears that some people last year had their pride hurt after being outfoxed and they jumped at the chance to revenge themselves. It appears that their pride is hurt when this forum is littered with blue posts containing such witticisms as: "Cool story bro". It appears that someone recognizes how bad this looks when a whole bunch of said posts are deleted. |
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Cheryl Nome
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 08:45:00 -
[101] - Quote
Cant you guys fcking move on ?
Would have it been a better tourney with them ? Yes Do they deserve their ban ? Considering they did exactly the same last year, yes they do deserve the ban. That's sheer stupidity on their part.
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Cody Zamorah
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
89
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 10:02:00 -
[102] - Quote
Cheryl Nome wrote:Cant you guys fcking move on ?
Would have it been a better tourney with them ? Yes Do they deserve their ban ? Considering they did exactly the same last year, yes they do deserve the ban. That's sheer stupidity on their part.
And where did they do exactly the same thing as last year? I only see speculation based on a training program which people don't approve of.
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xxzartanxx
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.02 10:24:00 -
[103] - Quote
Oh DEFINATELY gonna watch the AT now..
Especially since they banned the 2 cheating alliances. |
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