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Zuteh
Infinite Improbability Inc
0
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Posted - 2011.09.17 11:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
I want to make a proposal for a feature to remap skill points. I have cross trained alot of skills, mostly because of lack of knowledge in the beginning and it bugges the heck out of me.
We know you can do it if you want to, like in the reset of training skills to "unallocated skillpoints" so, please do it, I would love to be able to remap some of my useless skills into something worth while, call it "skill rewiring", with some cost and perhaps a slight SP loss when freeing up skills. That'd also give us yet another time/ISK sink. I'm sure some sort of restriction is needed, like once/twice a year or whatever, but that is up to CCP to iron out. |
Tallianna Avenkarde
Beasts of Burden
31
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Posted - 2011.09.17 11:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Awesome. So you propose that for 6 months of the year I trade my 60m skillpoints to pure industy, and make my character alot of isk, then the other 6 months I reskill over to perfect titan piloting skills and hotdrop nublets in amamake...
NO.
And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
163
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Posted - 2011.09.17 13:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Completely removes the point of having attrbiutes, largely removes the point of having SP to begin with, and almost even removes the point of having skills.
Horrid idea.
No. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Seraph Cruoris
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.17 13:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm new to EVE and I'm far from having the millions of skill points some might have to make this game breaking but that's what it is and what it will be - game breaking.
You nailed it when you described your problem: you lacked knowledge. There's EVElopedia, there's the help channel, there's even a simple thing called trial and error to help you a long the way but a remapping of skills cause you didn't consider looking around or asking around for information is a bit much. I have a few skills i regret training but who knows they might prove useful later or be a jump start for when i decide to further their development....
This idea will be game breaking; reasons already mentioned by the previous two posters. Especially the back and fro rewiring scenario mentioned. Even allowing you to change it once in your character's lifetime (while not game breaking) is also a cheap way of excusing yourself of your mistake...CCP already has a time sink for people like that...its called....doing a 180 and skilling up those skills you ignored/mistaken for uselessness/didn't realise their importance....
i rather them fix things that are already broken that shouldn't be broken: anyone else cant seem to see who's online or not on their contact list? (i cant even if the person is online)....now that is something that should be easily ironed out (if its not only me experiencing that)...
p.s.
does anyone have anything against CCP bringing a post-surgery re-sculpting option? (lackluster laptop forced me have to accept the default look when i found myself away from home on vacation with an empty skill queue lol) |
Flakey Foont
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2011.09.17 15:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
This has been brought up hundreds of times and is still a bad idea. There are other games that offer this. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
168
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Posted - 2011.09.17 19:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Seraph Cruoris wrote:p.s.
does anyone have anything against CCP bringing a post-surgery re-sculpting option? (lackluster laptop forced me have to accept the default look when i found myself away from home on vacation with an empty skill queue lol) It has been brought up ever since the new character generator was introduced and has never been met with anything more negative than "but I might not recognize the image on the forums."
It has pretty much always been thought of as a SoonGäó kind of station service (possibly AUR-fulled, these days) that will be available as yet another WIS feature. The real argument has rather been whether or not it would/should allow for more drastic reconstructions such as bloodline changes and the like. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.18 00:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Also, how many skillpoints could anyone really have wasted? Such mistakes are made at the beginning, when you are training to lvl 3 at max, with a very few lvl4 or lvl5 in the most important skills. This means we are talking about a few hours worth (or maybe a day or two) of skillpoints.
Hardly a reason for anyone getting worked up over it. "You either need less science fiction or more medication."
"Or less medication and more ammo!" |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
10
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Posted - 2011.09.18 01:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sebastian N Cain wrote:Also, how many skillpoints could anyone really have wasted? Such mistakes are made at the beginning, when you are training to lvl 3 at max, with a very few lvl4 or lvl5 in the most important skills. This means we are talking about a few hours worth (or maybe a day or two) of skillpoints.
Hardly a reason for anyone getting worked up over it.
I have no clue why I trained Survey 5 and would hand that one back in a heartbeat; 256,000 there. I'd probably role Research Project Management back to 4 as well, netting me another 1.5 million to use elsewhere (though technically that's a skill I use every single day even when I'm not logged on). And I'm not one of the people who would take back the hybrid skill tree up to large specs 4; I'm not even going to add up what that might net in return.
But honestly, I'm happier just having some "oops" skills and moving on. |
Seraph Cruoris
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.18 02:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tippia wrote: It has pretty much always been thought of as a SoonGäó kind of station service (possibly AUR-fulled, these days) that will be available as yet another WIS feature. The real argument has rather been whether or not it would/should allow for more drastic reconstructions such as bloodline changes and the like.
I think the drastic changes would defeat the point of having bloodlines however to be fair it became pointless (mind you I never played prior to these events I simply read up on Eve before playing it) when they removed unique attributes associated with each (correct me if I'm wrong as its been a while since I've read up on the changes leading to my '09 sign up). Now its purely cosmetic.
They could offer some bonuses to each or offer a form of 'specialisation' options available exclusively to each bloodline - understandably it would mean coming up with 12 of them to make each worthwhile but then you'll have arguments that it becomes too complex (then again wasn't Eve always meant to focus on depth?). Otherwise offer something tangible ingame to make these choices matter.
The most simple and less 'intrusive' option is to collectively associate the different looks as part of the Faction's Culture; so you'd still have unique looking Amarr, Gallente, Caladari and Minmatar but at least the trivial bloodline choices are removed.
"but I might not recognize the image on the forums." - is the worst argumentative point I have ever seen (shame on whoever argues that on the forum). Unless I personally chat to you within Eve I just see any forum post as an insight from a different perspective otherwise if I do chat to you within Eve I would obviously remember your name (and ill always be aware if your avatar changes). If I find your posts often and notice you have content worth reading in your post id probably also eventually remember your name anyway...
However I really hope they make it ISK based (if there is a post-surgery option) or give it for free.
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Lester Knight Chaykin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.18 09:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tallianna Avenkarde wrote:Awesome. So you propose that for 6 months of the year I trade my 60m skillpoints to pure industy, and make my character alot of isk, then the other 6 months I reskill over to perfect titan piloting skills and hotdrop nublets in amamake...
NO.
WTF are you talking about?! Are you idiot or what? Like it takes 6 months to get rich with an industrial alt, while you are still training at it. Learn the game or else show me how you train an alt from scratch and get rich in 6 months while still training. Bah... the noobs.... |
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Seraph Cruoris
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.18 09:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lester Knight Chaykin wrote:Tallianna Avenkarde wrote:Awesome. So you propose that for 6 months of the year I trade my 60m skillpoints to pure industy, and make my character alot of isk, then the other 6 months I reskill over to perfect titan piloting skills and hotdrop nublets in amamake...
NO.
WTF are you talking about?! Are you idiot or what? Like it takes 6 months to get rich with an industrial alt, while you are still training at it. Learn the game or else show me how you train an alt from scratch and get rich in 6 months while still training. Bah... the noobs....
you did read the part where she/he said 60 million points being swapped around? "So you propose that for 6 months of the year I trade my 60m skillpoints to pure industy"...it might not seem like an issue for a starting character to have a skill-reallocation feature at x-cost but it can be for anyone who has a relatively old character. Even a 1-2 year old character can already make the feature game-breaking (assuming they didn't have any downtime in their skill training). |
Sphynix
The Embraced Of Eve
8
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Posted - 2011.09.18 14:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Umm, so if you were to get +5 implants for Per/Wil and set your attributes to max out Per/Wil then you could train all your skills at 2700sp/h. There would be a "downtime" of course, of however long the remap is - a year?
You see, a lot of folk would just knock off their "level 5" skill in skills like cap ships, or advanced gun skill y, x and z. Then re-allocate the points into anything that wasn't per/wil and just retrain.
There would not be a point in having attributes - just make everything train at the same speed. |
Zuteh
Infinite Improbability Inc
0
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Posted - 2011.09.18 20:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sphynix wrote:Umm, so if you were to get +5 implants for Per/Wil and set your attributes to max out Per/Wil then you could train all your skills at 2700sp/h. There would be a "downtime" of course, of however long the remap is - a year?
You see, a lot of folk would just knock off their "level 5" skill in skills like cap ships, or advanced gun skill y, x and z. Then re-allocate the points into anything that wasn't per/wil and just retrain.
There would not be a point in having attributes - just make everything train at the same speed.
That's why I said there should be some cost with it;
- For every SP you free up you get 0.7 back
- One SP cost 10K isk
- Once a year or something
There are plenty of things to do to stop exploiting and still provide a reasonable rare chance to change direction of your skills.
For the "why didn't you read up" guys, give me a break, most people don't go digging into optimization guides as their first task when starting a game. I'm not talking wild respecs like in some other games, but a somewhat rare chance to re-order some failed combos. |
Seraph Cruoris
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.09.19 01:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Your penalties are all good and dandy maybe for someone like me who just broke the 10m barrier but for someone who is far higher in their development can easily sink their teeth into those proposed consequences and still come out better for it (even if you were to implement all of those three examples). If you intend to bar the feature from people of certain skill points then it becomes 'unfair'...actually at that point people would probably not develop beyond a certain point and just remap skills (yes there will be plenty of people like thatl) and if you were to keep the SP barrier too low then it becomes pointless...because...
you argue that there are plenty of things you can do to stop exploitation of such a feature (honestly I highly doubt it - ya im reaffirming my statement). I and many others can argue that for skill training and development there are plenty sources for you to read up and consider before sinking you teeth into it and early on plenty of time to change your mind. Plus majority of skills are beneficial for general training unless you trained highly specialised skills but even then its part of EVE's time sink mechanic (if you can call it that).
I won't lie I can see where I'd use that sort of feature for my own skill tree but I have not scratched the surface of EVE (imo) and how to be effective in one role or another can see how bad of an idea this is.
Edit: I don't expect you to read optimisation guides (but this mostly applies for attribute remapping). I sure didn't when I started out and only now am considering it. But I def did read up on ship classes, asked around in the help channel, asked people who ended up being part of my contacts about certain things within the first month I was playing. Ample time to change and restructure your development path. If it wasn't for someone I met through the help channel I wouldn't have known about the learning skills (which are now gone lol). EVE like RL can almost be broadly described as a trail and error game where you learn from your mistakes; one being your skill tree. Imagine WoW...if you played as a Mage till LV40 or something. I know WoW lets you remap skills within a given class but last I checked they don't let you change the class you picked. Effectively you're allowing anyone that is a pure combat pilot to suddenly become a pure industrial or pure miner...EVE might not have a class structure like WoW but it has an undertone of it based on the skills you train and what you propose is that anyone can change their specialised roles at will (effectively changing their class if this were any other RPG MMO). THAT IS INSANE! |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
30
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Posted - 2011.09.19 06:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:I have no clue why I trained Survey 5 and would hand that one back in a heartbeat; 256,000 there. I think I know why:
Dominion Patch Notes wrote:Skills
* Archaeology has the following prerequisites: Science level 3(down from level 5), Survey level 3 (down from level 5), Electronics level 1
Dominion changed a few skills. |
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance
5
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Posted - 2011.09.19 12:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:I have no clue why I trained Survey 5 and would hand that one back in a heartbeat; 256,000 there. I think I know why: Dominion Patch Notes wrote:Skills
* Archaeology has the following prerequisites: Science level 3(down from level 5), Survey level 3 (down from level 5), Electronics level 1 Dominion changed a few skills.
Either that or Zhilia really wanted to use Gaze Survey Probes (req: Astrometrics V & Survey V)
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Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
42
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Posted - 2011.09.19 12:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
I have a better idea.
Biomass your character(s).
Don't come back. |
Staffikama
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.10.23 02:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zuteh wrote: That's why I said there should be some cost with it;
- For every SP you free up you get 0.7 back
- One SP cost 10K isk
- Once a year or something
if in addition to these it would remove the skills, Id gladly throw 3b isk at my useless industry and science skills even with smaller sp refund
allways wanted a clean character sheet, maybe its OCD or something vOv |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
861
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Posted - 2011.10.23 08:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
No. You want a different skill set? Buy a character from the bazaar.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity Narwhals Ate My Duck
2
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Posted - 2011.10.23 09:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Worst idea i've heard in all my time playing eve... |
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Mashie Saldana
Veto. Veto Corp
59
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Posted - 2011.10.23 15:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Seraph Cruoris wrote:does anyone have anything against CCP bringing a post-surgery re-sculpting option? (lackluster laptop forced me have to accept the default look when i found myself away from home on vacation with an empty skill queue lol) If you ask nicely in a petition you are likley to get a free body reconstruction. Anastasia -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á Dominique-á-á Mashie -á-á Monica |
Abadayos
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.10.28 11:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
If you where to do this, it would have to be a once off and you only get 0.5 SP's back per SP 'removed' so you loose half of your invested skills. This I would say could make it more 'balanced' and not have people just throwing points around willy nilly.
However having it as an option at all is a bad idea in my eyes. You make mistakes, you accept that you screwed up and move on, you don't be a 10 year old and go crying to your mummy to fix it cos you stuffed it up. Remember your not a special little snowflake, everyone has atleast 1 toon on their accounts or in their history with totally borked skill set ups. |
Keri Stardust
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.28 20:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
0.5 is still too high i think
Brain butchering
0.25sp per sp removed.
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