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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
973
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 17:27:00 -
[91] - Quote
bongsmoke wrote:
The only thing I have to add or question in your post, If it's profitable enough. It really isn't, I suppose its mainly for building ships/equipment, but the time/effort/cost ratio compared to other professions are a bit off. Yes I have/do mine in null occasionally for certain minerals.
Mining Bots got a HUGE ban, in the beginning of April, which is why prices did shoot upwards, kinda staying there. I'm sure there will always be bots, but CCP has done decent job gettign rid of a lot of them.
EvE is the MMO where you can skill up for years while AFK or even without having to log in at all except to queue new skills. EvE is the MMO where you can earn a low AFK income while researching datacores. EvE is the MMO where you can earn a low (sometimes not so low) AFK income by clicking PI circles once in a while.
EvE is the MMO where you could earn a low, steady AFK income while alt tabbed doing other stuff (i.e. work). This is why miners AFK. And in order to AFK they won't jet can (it's a can flipper magnet, hard to keep tabs on them while alt-tabbed). This is why they put expanders and not tank mods.
Mining can be done in non AFK mode, can be done in low sec etc but since the first day mining did NOT attract the active, mega-alliance cooperative and hyper-active guys with plenty of time on hands (= able to farm "active content" if red crosses may be considered active).
It attracted many solo / casual players / people who do other stuff during the day, expecially those who have limited prime time to log in the 0.0 main and play - no time to grind anoms / L4 etc when time is scarce, no money to buy RMT / PLEX ISK like many do.
The effects of killing miners with long coordinated events:
- removes the human players. Bots can afford continuously replacing whole accounts (including ships), of course they can afford replacing lost Hulks.
- pushes mining into renter 0.0, where they WILL bot and NOBODY EVER will catch them. The blues won't report them, roams will catch some bot but they auto-flee when neutrals warp in the system so it's extremely hard to catch them.
In hi sec it's easier to catch bots, because they cannot know when to warp away (neutrals are in system all the time) and the number of other players makes sure that blatant bots will be reported.
I am not concerned with the mineral prices increasing at all because my business is exactly to make a killing on selling expensive minerals I bought for cheap. I am concerned with the obvious loss in CCP income (they manage to create crappy content as is, imagine with 10%-20% less subs) and with the obvious encouragement to safe and unhindered 0.0 botting, which is just sick.
I am also concerned with the sh!thead attitude of "we'll make the game crap for you till you homologate yourself to our gameplay and become another 0.0 moongoo lord servant". There's no practical counter to this and I hate homologation as much as I hate loss of freedom. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Blabb3r M0uth B11tch
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 17:30:00 -
[92] - Quote
Pretty interesting post. I'm thinking CCP might need to considering buffing mining ships, specifically there tanks. I said might.! This could be a possible leveling for this situation. If they choose to do it, I would expect it to be done quietly. |
Snow Burst
RED.OverLord
35
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 17:34:00 -
[93] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:bongsmoke wrote:
The only thing I have to add or question in your post, If it's profitable enough. It really isn't, I suppose its mainly for building ships/equipment, but the time/effort/cost ratio compared to other professions are a bit off. Yes I have/do mine in null occasionally for certain minerals.
Mining Bots got a HUGE ban, in the beginning of April, which is why prices did shoot upwards, kinda staying there. I'm sure there will always be bots, but CCP has done decent job gettign rid of a lot of them.
EvE is the MMO where you can skill up for years while AFK or even without having to log in at all except to queue new skills. EvE is the MMO where you can earn a low AFK income while researching datacores. EvE is the MMO where you can earn a low (sometimes not so low) AFK income by clicking PI circles once in a while. EvE is the MMO where you could earn a low, steady AFK income while alt tabbed doing other stuff (i.e. work). This is why miners AFK. And in order to AFK they won't jet can (it's a can flipper magnet, hard to keep tabs on them while alt-tabbed). This is why they put expanders and not tank mods. Mining can be done in non AFK mode, can be done in low sec etc but since the first day mining did NOT attract the active, mega-alliance cooperative and hyper-active guys with plenty of time on hands (= able to farm "active content" if red crosses may be considered active). It attracted many solo / casual players / people who do other stuff during the day, expecially those who have limited prime time to log in the 0.0 main and play - no time to grind anoms / L4 etc when time is scarce, no money to buy RMT / PLEX ISK like many do. The effects of killing miners with long coordinated events: - removes the human players. Bots can afford continuously replacing whole accounts (including ships), of course they can afford replacing lost Hulks. - pushes mining into renter 0.0, where they WILL bot and NOBODY EVER will catch them. The blues won't report them, roams will catch some bot but they auto-flee when neutrals warp in the system so it's extremely hard to catch them. In hi sec it's easier to catch bots, because they cannot know when to warp away (neutrals are in system all the time) and the number of other players makes sure that blatant bots will be reported. I am not concerned with the mineral prices increasing at all because my business is exactly to make a killing on selling expensive minerals I bought for cheap. I am concerned with the obvious loss in CCP income (they manage to create crappy content as is, imagine with 10%-20% less subs) and with the obvious encouragement to safe and unhindered 0.0 botting, which is just sick. I am also concerned with the sh!thead attitude of "we'll make the game crap for you till you homologate yourself to our gameplay and become another 0.0 moongoo lord servant". There's no practical counter to this and I hate homologation as much as I hate loss of freedom. intelligent post = win i take my glasses off to u :3 There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way.-áOr By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3 |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
159
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 17:58:00 -
[94] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Really - who need miners when there are so many meta1-3 items to re-process from missioners' activity?
However I foresee "missiongeddons" coming in case of mining disappearance so there is no point to start messing with mining removal - most likely whining will never end in EVE.
I don't... that might actually take some effort. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
402
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 18:03:00 -
[95] - Quote
After miners are gone, should we remove missioners next? |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
403
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 19:28:00 -
[96] - Quote
You can't exactly remove a "Profession" until one exists in the first place, and an activity where your primary decision making process is "which other game do I alt-tab into whilst my modules cycle over and over again in the background?" hardly justifies the use of the word.
Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
EVE Roy Mustang
State War Academy Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 19:39:00 -
[97] - Quote
Dearthair wrote:The issue I have with the "hulk done right" fit is that a maxed yield covetor actually gets better yield, and at a much lower cost, and can be tanked to about 7500 EHP. It might still get ganked occasionally, but it is far less likely to be targeted than a hulk.
Id rather use the covetor and replace them now and again. I usually make 10x the cost of the ship doing it like that anyways
Miilla wrote:After miners are gone, should we remove missioners next?
and after that PVPers |
Selinate
911
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 19:41:00 -
[98] - Quote
I made this thread weeks ago. It was considered trolling and was locked.
However, I support you in your get rid of mining endeavors. |
bongsmoke
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 21:14:00 -
[99] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:bongsmoke wrote:
The only thing I have to add or question in your post, If it's profitable enough. It really isn't, I suppose its mainly for building ships/equipment, but the time/effort/cost ratio compared to other professions are a bit off. Yes I have/do mine in null occasionally for certain minerals.
Mining Bots got a HUGE ban, in the beginning of April, which is why prices did shoot upwards, kinda staying there. I'm sure there will always be bots, but CCP has done decent job gettign rid of a lot of them.
EvE is the MMO where you can skill up for years while AFK or even without having to log in at all except to queue new skills. EvE is the MMO where you can earn a low AFK income while researching datacores. EvE is the MMO where you can earn a low (sometimes not so low) AFK income by clicking PI circles once in a while. EvE is the MMO where you could earn a low, steady AFK income while alt tabbed doing other stuff (i.e. work). This is why miners AFK. And in order to AFK they won't jet can (it's a can flipper magnet, hard to keep tabs on them while alt-tabbed). This is why they put expanders and not tank mods. Mining can be done in non AFK mode, can be done in low sec etc but since the first day mining did NOT attract the active, mega-alliance cooperative and hyper-active guys with plenty of time on hands (= able to farm "active content" if red crosses may be considered active). It attracted many solo / casual players / people who do other stuff during the day, expecially those who have limited prime time to log in the 0.0 main and play - no time to grind anoms / L4 etc when time is scarce, no money to buy RMT / PLEX ISK like many do. The effects of killing miners with long coordinated events: - removes the human players. Bots can afford continuously replacing whole accounts (including ships), of course they can afford replacing lost Hulks. - pushes mining into renter 0.0, where they WILL bot and NOBODY EVER will catch them. The blues won't report them, roams will catch some bot but they auto-flee when neutrals warp in the system so it's extremely hard to catch them. In hi sec it's easier to catch bots, because they cannot know when to warp away (neutrals are in system all the time) and the number of other players makes sure that blatant bots will be reported. I am not concerned with the mineral prices increasing at all because my business is exactly to make a killing on selling expensive minerals I bought for cheap. I am concerned with the obvious loss in CCP income (they manage to create crappy content as is, imagine with 10%-20% less subs) and with the obvious encouragement to safe and unhindered 0.0 botting, which is just sick. I am also concerned with the sh!thead attitude of "we'll make the game crap for you till you homologate yourself to our gameplay and become another 0.0 moongoo lord servant". There's no practical counter to this and I hate homologation as much as I hate loss of freedom.
Great Post!
I have not noticed (nor paid much attention) any bots since April, but in all fairness, my time spent in hi-sec is small recently. I have roamed and roamed these past several nights in null (not saying where) and found 3 or 4 people solo doing w/e(not mining), but I have yet to see or even scan a single miner in 0.0
Its usually cruisers/frigs, or the occassional blob. This including 3 regions within ~ 75 jump radius. However, Time of day I play, not a lot of people are usually on compared to prime time.
I am hopeful (and actually optimistic) CCP has a good detection method to prevent botting. |
YuuKnow
343
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 21:25:00 -
[100] - Quote
Mining is a nice, laid back, social endeavor, thats good for laid back cooperative gameplay. Not everyone wants to login to gankermode everyday.
What's broken about mining is the risk-reward ratio now. It used to be more inline with basic low risk, low reward, but with current security level game mechanics, Concord mechanics and griefer alts, its turned into a high-risk low-reward situtation that doesn't fit well with the rest of the risk/reward game-mechanics.
In a lot of ways CCPs core game design as they originally intended are breaking down as the player base grows and cracks in their original game design are exposed.
yk |
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Bahr Cudas
Beta Ray Bill
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 21:48:00 -
[101] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote:Mining is a nice, laid back, social endeavor, thats good for laid back cooperative gameplay. Not everyone wants to login to gankermode everyday.
What's broken about mining is the risk-reward ratio now. It used to be more inline with basic low risk, low reward, but with current security level game mechanics, Concord mechanics and griefer alts, its turned into a high-risk low-reward situtation that doesn't fit well with the rest of the risk/reward game-mechanics.
In a lot of ways CCPs core game design as they originally intended are breaking down as the player base grows and cracks in their original game design are exposed.
yk
I've been a miner since day 1. I don't think EVE is broken or flawed. More than any MMO I've ever played, it's what you make of it. If you want nice & laid back, pick an out of the way Empire pond and fish to your heart's content. If you want action, go to 0.0.
Hulkageddon is hliarious. I support it 100%. Then again I don't mine in a Hulk. And, when I'm looking for alittle more excitement, I'll mine in 0.2 and play Rabbit with the gankers. Win some, and lose some, but at the end of the day, I've logged on, and played a very well constructed MMO.
Just my personal opinions, gang... |
Snow Burst
RED.OverLord
67
|
Posted - 2012.05.28 21:50:00 -
[102] - Quote
also 1 word... chribba There Is A 90% Chance All Of What You Just Read Is Wrong, Inaccurate Or Just Me Being Controversial In Some Way.-áOr By Some Chance It's Completely Right In Every Way... At Least To Me :3 |
Tora reavs
Unity Continuum Supernova Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 00:51:00 -
[103] - Quote
I think what is really needed is an "industrial" method of getting even with the gankers. For example, a market black list. Anyone ganking a miner would be placed on the list and would no longer be able to buy minerals. Anyone found making ships and selling them to the gankers would be placed on the same list. After a while the gankers would no longer be able to buy a ship to gank with.
That would be result directly related to their actions and not just some ccp nurf to ganking. True Market PVP. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
924
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 00:56:00 -
[104] - Quote
Tora reavs wrote:I think what is really needed is an "industrial" method of getting even with the gankers. For example, a market black list. Anyone ganking a miner would be placed on the list and would no longer be able to buy minerals. Anyone found making ships and selling them to the gankers would be placed on the same list. After a while the gankers would no longer be able to buy a ship to gank with.
That would be result directly related to their actions and not just some ccp nurf to ganking. True Market PVP. So when you put a sell order and a ganker buys it from you, the system beats you up.
Sounds like an "industrial" way of ganking ! Don't like that competitor, make a gank alt and guy a ship from him. *ding* Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Ginseng Jita
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
380
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 01:00:00 -
[105] - Quote
Tora reavs wrote:I think what is really needed is an "industrial" method of getting even with the gankers. For example, a market black list. Anyone ganking a miner would be placed on the list and would no longer be able to buy minerals. Anyone found making ships and selling them to the gankers would be placed on the same list. After a while the gankers would no longer be able to buy a ship to gank with.
That would be result directly related to their actions and not just some ccp nurf to ganking. True Market PVP.
LOL - yeah that'll work. :) |
Bahr Cudas
Beta Ray Bill
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 02:27:00 -
[106] - Quote
Tora reavs wrote:I think what is really needed is an "industrial" method of getting even with the gankers. For example, a market black list. Anyone ganking a miner would be placed on the list and would no longer be able to buy minerals. Anyone found making ships and selling them to the gankers would be placed on the same list. After a while the gankers would no longer be able to buy a ship to gank with.
That would be result directly related to their actions and not just some ccp nurf to ganking. True Market PVP. That's interesting idea, though personally I wouldn't change things. They take a security hit, and the person who was attacked can adapt their technique to be better prepared. |
Ramon Sohei
URSALIS LOGISTICS GROUP Villore Accords
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 03:10:00 -
[107] - Quote
@OP, I'm not sure if you are trolling...
If you take mining out, why would alliances 'own' space in the first place. You need to have resources for corps/alliances to compete. This causes conflicts which help fuel wars. What you are asking is like playing Warcraft/Starcraft without the mining component.
Quote:Do we really need this profession?
Think of it this way. You have sheep and you have wolves. Someone has to play sheep. |
EVE Roy Mustang
State War Academy Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 03:19:00 -
[108] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Tora reavs wrote:I think what is really needed is an "industrial" method of getting even with the gankers. For example, a market black list. Anyone ganking a miner would be placed on the list and would no longer be able to buy minerals. Anyone found making ships and selling them to the gankers would be placed on the same list. After a while the gankers would no longer be able to buy a ship to gank with.
That would be result directly related to their actions and not just some ccp nurf to ganking. True Market PVP. So when you put a sell order and a ganker buys it from you, the system beats you up. Sounds like an "industrial" way of ganking ! Don't like that competitor, make a gank alt and guy a ship from him. *ding*
or make a ganking alt corp and kill any destroyer that shows up in your belt lol
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bongsmoke
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
52
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 13:34:00 -
[109] - Quote
Those that actually made a contribution to this thread, thanks.
The threads title was meant to grab peoples attention and bring ideas to helping the profession.
Too many trolls and ignorant people that cannot read past the headline.
Ultimately, its ccp decision if anything changes. Doubt anything will.
Best wishes to the indy industry.
I shall continue doing what i do, and you all do what you do.
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theteck
7
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 19:32:00 -
[110] - Quote
my problem its we pass to mutch time mining and not enough action ...
and when i want to finally do somes pow pow ... using a jump clone have a cooldown of 24 hours that its to long ...
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