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Schalac
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2009.08.11 11:47:00 -
[1]
I was thinking today and I feel it's time to let us buy skills in the game. The system I worked out for doing so is much like the skill training system already in place, but with ISK instead of time. Time is money after all. So the way I thought it should work is like this. Skills are ranked in numerical order 1+ designating the time that it takes to train with the rank being the multiplier. Now lets convert this to ISK. I'll use the battleship skill to demonstrate an extreme for all of those people that are going to say that this would be an over powered mechanic to add.
Battleship skills are rank 8, and they cost 4 or 5 million to buy off of the market from NPCs. Now the way I picture it working is like this. Instead of purchasing just the book and starting at 0 you can have the option to buy and advanced skill book with dedicated levels assigned to them. In the case of the battleship skill, say I wanted to get into a BS that I have 0 skill points in right now and the requirement is BS 3 to fly it. Well I can either buy the skill and start training it from 0, or I can buy an advanced book which would give me BS 3 right off the bat for 1,280,000,000 ISK. The way I got to this number is the rank of the skill (8 x price of base skill)^level of skill chosen / 2. That's 1 billion 280 million ISK to buy Battleship 3 off of the market. That is how you would balance this practice so it is not abused as some think it would be to outfit titan pilots right off the bat.
For lesser rank skills though I feel mechanic would work great. You could add it into the Sleeper line of lore as well as their technology is supposedly more advanced than the things you find in New Eden. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.08.11 11:57:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 11/08/2009 11:57:30 no.
this would destroy a big part of motivation playing eve if everybody could have any skill anytime he wants. Its not the philosophy of eve and would even boost the real money trade for ISK.
If you have enough ISK, you may buy a character on the market already today.
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Schalac
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2009.08.11 12:07:00 -
[3]
I feel the opposite. I think this idea would motivate people to play EVE more. Now instead of sitting around for a week{s} to board that new SHINE GET, you can just buy an advanced skill off the market and be in it immediately. Besides I highly doubt that EVE is going to be around for the 30 years that it takes to learn every skill to max, so at this stage of the game why not open it up. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
LordSwift
Caldari Fearless Phantoms Inc
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Posted - 2009.08.11 12:11:00 -
[4]
Never gona happen. IF you want certain skills trained. buy one off character bazarr Join the brown Coats today!!! |
Arrs Grazznic
Pawn Sauce
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Posted - 2009.08.11 12:12:00 -
[5]
No.
It is bad enough we have learning skills and advanced learning skills. Your suggestion would significantly unbalance training time and encourage various forms of RMT.
Cheers, Arrs
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Schalac
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2009.08.11 12:22:00 -
[6]
RMT is already supported by CCP and it happens hundreds of times a day. So that argument is invalid. Also I would like to know how exactly you think this would unbalance training time. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.08.11 12:32:00 -
[7]
The OP is a genius!!!
And I suggest we set the price at 1 million ISK per SP bought. Imagine, BattleShip V for just 2,048,000,000,000 ISK.
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Giddoni
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Posted - 2009.08.11 12:49:00 -
[8]
Wow, the trolls are out in force today.
I don't see what's so wrong with the idea of buying skills at the prices listed. 1.2 billion for instant BS-3 wouldn't unbalance the game. That said, this does already exist as the Character Bazzar forum. For the same suggested price as Battleship 5, for example, you could get a very nice well-rounded complete battleship pilot off the character bazzar. |
Chi'kote
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Posted - 2009.08.11 12:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Giddoni Wow, the trolls are out in force today.
I don't see what's so wrong with the idea of buying skills at the prices listed. 1.2 billion for instant BS-3 wouldn't unbalance the game. That said, this does already exist as the Character Bazzar forum. For the same suggested price as Battleship 5, for example, you could get a very nice well-rounded complete battleship pilot off the character bazzar.
Um, if I'm reading my zeros right, for that price you could buy like 20 75 mill SP characters. A top notch player on the bazaar will only go for 30-5o bill probably.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.11 13:01:00 -
[10]
Bad idea. One of teh core things in EVE is that everybody is bound by the same training time. Isk only make an advantage in form of implants. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.08.11 13:03:00 -
[11]
Never ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
Spud Mackenzie
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Posted - 2009.08.11 13:09:00 -
[12]
Player with good intentions: I think we should be able to use our hard earned ISK to buy skills. If you spend so much time grinding missions or mining away belt after belt, you should be able to spend it to better yourself.
Player with bad intentions (everyone else): Wait, what? You mean I can go to one of those ISK/gold seller sites, buy a shitload of ISK, and instantly have an awesome character!? EXCELLENT IDEA!
This is a bad idea. You can already buy someone else's character for a few Bil ISK. Other than that... there shouldn't be any form of "Matrix" uploading of skills. No "I know Kung Fu" in EVE.
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Dex Timor
Forza Di Colpo
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Posted - 2009.08.11 13:47:00 -
[13]
I believe that proposal would:
1) encourage even more ISK grinding. 2) encourage even more scamming 3) encourage even more account hi-jacking
*facepalm*
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Karentaki
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.11 14:38:00 -
[14]
I have a cool idea too. How about a game where you pay to get points:
There are 2 parts of the game, a leader board, and a cash-payment system. The more cash you pay, the more points you get. The top 20 people are listed on the leader board. This sounds such a fun game right?
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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Ichiro Sanchas
Caldari Dark Star Industries
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Posted - 2009.08.11 14:43:00 -
[15]
Not just no, but HELL NO.
The only thing that keeps EVE at least somewhat playable for new players is the fact that a new player focused on one element of game-play is a match for long-term players whose skills are (because of the mechanics of EVE) more spread out in a lot of different areas.
Give these long-term players the ability to buy any skill they want to any level they want (and they WILL), and you completely destroy this mechanic. That leads to new players being even more frustrated than they already are.
Not just no, but HELL NO.
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FireT
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Posted - 2009.08.11 14:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Schalac I was thinking today and I feel it's time to let us buy skills in the game. The system I worked out for doing so is much like the skill training system already in place, but with ISK instead of time. Time is money after all. So the way I thought it should work is like this. Skills are ranked in numerical order 1+ designating the time that it takes to train with the rank being the multiplier. Now lets convert this to ISK. I'll use the battleship skill to demonstrate an extreme for all of those people that are going to say that this would be an over powered mechanic to add.
Battleship skills are rank 8, and they cost 4 or 5 million to buy off of the market from NPCs. Now the way I picture it working is like this. Instead of purchasing just the book and starting at 0 you can have the option to buy and advanced skill book with dedicated levels assigned to them. In the case of the battleship skill, say I wanted to get into a BS that I have 0 skill points in right now and the requirement is BS 3 to fly it. Well I can either buy the skill and start training it from 0, or I can buy an advanced book which would give me BS 3 right off the bat for 1,280,000,000 ISK. The way I got to this number is the rank of the skill (8 x price of base skill)^level of skill chosen / 2. That's 1 billion 280 million ISK to buy Battleship 3 off of the market. That is how you would balance this practice so it is not abused as some think it would be to outfit titan pilots right off the bat.
For lesser rank skills though I feel mechanic would work great. You could add it into the Sleeper line of lore as well as their technology is supposedly more advanced than the things you find in New Eden.
Instant gratification troll much? If that is implimented the actual steady players will leave, including myself. because that will just ruin the game and bring the WoW kiddies with their ADD instant gratification issues here.
Seriously, go play other MMOs with level grinding that only rises when you are actually playing and come back.
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2009.08.11 14:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Schalac RMT is already supported by CCP
This is true, but it's important to see why this is the case.
CCP supported RMT as a way to reduce the appeal of buying ISK through third parties, not because they were gung-ho about it. Those of you who remember EVE prior to PLEXes may note that it took CCP a while to implement any sort of RMT and they were definitely not thrilled about it.
In any case, I'm not too worried. It will never happen. CCP hates the notion of power-leveling and the notion of doing it with money is even worse. While I certainly sympathize that the first month of being a new player and wanting to do things is frustrating, it's something that's slowly being addressed. (2x learning time was a good start, needs a bit more tweaking IMO.)
Furthermore, the player base will never accept it. We all started out from nothing. We all grew up. And everyone who's been around longer than 6 months will tell you, that skill points do not make the player. But there's something to be said for investing the time.
EVE defines itself by forcing everyone to grow (more or less) at the same rate and break the pattern of other grind-intensive MMOs. I don't see that changing here.
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Arskaff
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Posted - 2009.08.11 15:04:00 -
[18]
We already have $ to ISK conversion (selling PLEXes). If you add the ISK to SP conversion, you are simply making this EvE into a rich man's game.
The character bazzar is different in many ways. Mainly, it does not allow you to trade $ into a list of skills you choose to have, but rather allows you to trade $ into a specific character you choose to have.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.08.11 15:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Arskaff We already have $ to ISK conversion (selling PLEXes). If you add the ISK to SP conversion, you are simply making this EvE into a rich man's game.
The character bazzar is different in many ways. Mainly, it does not allow you to trade $ into a list of skills you choose to have, but rather allows you to trade $ into a specific character you choose to have.
This. The fact that it will not be "your" character is the drawback of using RL money to advance ingame.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.08.11 15:53:00 -
[20]
Originally by: LordSwift Never gona happen. IF you want certain skills trained. buy one off character bazarr
Its ccp. And we are in "micropayments" era of gaming. So you never know what stupid idea they will come off with ...
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2009.08.11 16:15:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Regat Kozovv on 11/08/2009 16:15:24
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Its ccp...So you never know what stupid idea they will come off with ...
I think they deserve a bit more respect than that...
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Spud Mackenzie
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Posted - 2009.08.11 16:22:00 -
[22]
Respect is earned...
And with CCPs history
Bugged patches (anyone have a normal looking Gallente tower YET?) Ill conceived nerfs (anyone use Nos these days?) Racial favoritism (passive shield tank FTW) Whiner/noob focused exploit corrections (Contracts written in crayon)
Anything is possible, and will probably suck.
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Vyktor Abyss
Gallente The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.11 16:25:00 -
[23]
You want to get ahead in skill training?
1. Buy lots of GTC/Plex with real money 2. Sell lots of GTC/Plex for lots of ISK 3. Buy character with ISK
There you go....
Don't like it? Well then train for 5 years yourself before suggesting free skillpoints for new players for cash and see how you like it then.
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Gone'Postal
Void Engineers Mass - Effect
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Posted - 2009.08.11 16:26:00 -
[24]
lol, it's got to be a troll.
Originally by: masternerdguy
Officer mods arent spread out because the bpos are innacesible to 99% of eve.
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Schalac
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2009.08.11 16:34:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ichiro Sanchas Not just no, but HELL NO.
The only thing that keeps EVE at least somewhat playable for new players is the fact that a new player focused on one element of game-play is a match for long-term players whose skills are (because of the mechanics of EVE) more spread out in a lot of different areas.
Give these long-term players the ability to buy any skill they want to any level they want (and they WILL), and you completely destroy this mechanic. That leads to new players being even more frustrated than they already are.
Not just no, but HELL NO.
This is not only wrong but silly. Do you think that someone new to the game really stands a chance against myself who has 6 accounts and max engineering, gunnery, missiles, drones, mechanic and level 5 in a good bit of different spaceship command skills. Understanding of how a good bit of griefing mechanics work and how to make a freeform contract look like it's not actually a scam, because they have focused their training in one aspect of EVE.
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Bad idea. One of teh core things in EVE is that everybody is bound by the same training time. Isk only make an advantage in form of implants.
This is true, all training time will be the same as soon as CCP finally gets rid of every character in EVE that is not a female achura with 9/9/9/9/3. Then we will have true balance...
Originally by: Dex Timor I believe that proposal would:
1) encourage even more ISK grinding. 2) encourage even more scamming 3) encourage even more account hi-jacking
1.)People are going to grind ISK for multiple reasons for the rest of EVE's lifetime. That is what EVE is, a graphical spreadsheet where the amount of ISK you have equals win. 2.)And what is wrong with scamming again? It's a game play mechanic and people will scam others for the rest of EVE's lifetime. 3.)Account hi-jacking has nothing to with game play mechanics. That you even consider something like this would encourage even more account hi-jacking shows you are a complete moron and are probably just the type of person that scammers and account thiefs target.
Originally by: Arskaff We already have $ to ISK conversion (selling PLEXes). If you add the ISK to SP conversion, you are simply making this EvE into a rich man's game.
The character bazzar is different in many ways. Mainly, it does not allow you to trade $ into a list of skills you choose to have, but rather allows you to trade $ into a specific character you choose to have.
And since when is EVE not the rich mans game? The point of EVE is to gather ISK and the more you have the more powerful you are. I underlined the silly part as well because you got it backwards. The whole reason you buy a character off of the character bazaar is because you want the skills said character has. If I wanted a specific character I could easily make said character. If I want the skills I need to buy it like that.
SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
Schalac
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2009.08.11 16:47:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Regat Kozovv
Originally by: Schalac RMT is already supported by CCP
This is true, but it's important to see why this is the case.
CCP supported RMT as a way to reduce the appeal of buying ISK through third parties, not because they were gung-ho about it. Those of you who remember EVE prior to PLEXes may note that it took CCP a while to implement any sort of RMT and they were definitely not thrilled about it.
In any case, I'm not too worried. It will never happen. CCP hates the notion of power-leveling and the notion of doing it with money is even worse. While I certainly sympathize that the first month of being a new player and wanting to do things is frustrating, it's something that's slowly being addressed. (2x learning time was a good start, needs a bit more tweaking IMO.)
Furthermore, the player base will never accept it. We all started out from nothing. We all grew up. And everyone who's been around longer than 6 months will tell you, that skill points do not make the player. But there's something to be said for investing the time.
EVE defines itself by forcing everyone to grow (more or less) at the same rate and break the pattern of other grind-intensive MMOs. I don't see that changing here.
You say that EVE forces us to grow at the same rate for our betterment, but then acknowledge that this is a bad game mechanic for newer players and needs to be improved. So what one is it? Is EVE fine or do we need something else added in terms of faster skill training?
Also do you speak for the entire player base that won't accept this? I started from nothing, now have loads of skills and suggested this. So you don't speak for me. And you suggest that this is a bad idea, but say that skill points don't matter? So what one is it? Do skill points matter or not, because if they don't then my plan is perfect because it doesn't matter how many skills a person has. And what, exactly, is there to be said about investing the time? SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
Arskaff
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Posted - 2009.08.11 16:56:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Schalac
Originally by: Arskaff We already have $ to ISK conversion (selling PLEXes). If you add the ISK to SP conversion, you are simply making this EvE into a rich man's game.
The character bazzar is different in many ways. Mainly, it does not allow you to trade $ into a list of skills you choose to have, but rather allows you to trade $ into a specific character you choose to have.
And since when is EVE not the rich mans game? The point of EVE is to gather ISK and the more you have the more powerful you are. I underlined the silly part as well because you got it backwards. The whole reason you buy a character off of the character bazaar is because you want the skills said character has. If I wanted a specific character I could easily make said character. If I want the skills I need to buy it like that.
My friend, you are wrong on this one. EvE has no point other than having fun. If your fun is gathering isk then that is the point for you, but there are many players that have other ways of having fun, with weaker relation to ISK. EvE is not a rich man's game, us poor players have the chance to enjoy it as well - due to a delicate balance. Your suggestion would, IMO, break that balance.
When you buy a character from the bazaar, you get the skills it has. Some of them you want and some you don't. You also get that character's history, and other unchangeable attributes. You can't just put a list of skills you want and get a clean custom-made character on-the-spot.
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Schalac
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2009.08.11 17:05:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Arskaff
My friend, you are wrong on this one. EvE has no point other than having fun. If your fun is gathering isk then that is the point for you, but there are many players that have other ways of having fun, with weaker relation to ISK. EvE is not a rich man's game, us poor players have the chance to enjoy it as well - due to a delicate balance. Your suggestion would, IMO, break that balance.
When you buy a character from the bazaar, you get the skills it has. Some of them you want and some you don't. You also get that character's history, and other unchangeable attributes. You can't just put a list of skills you want and get a clean custom-made character on-the-spot.
Personally most of my fun is suicidal ship runs on random people. ISK gathering though is a necessary part of EVE and that will never change. I would like to know how exactly my suggestion breaks enjoyment of the game due to some unnamed balance though. SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
Spud Mackenzie
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Posted - 2009.08.11 17:10:00 -
[29]
Because ISK alone does not equal a better player.
A T1 frigate, operated by a well trained player, can beat the shit out of a Battleship flown by a 3 day old noob.
So merely using a gold seller site, and buying yourself into something big and menacing won't make you uber.
But... being able to instantly min/max your character would go a long way towards being as awesome as you wished you were in real life.
So allowing someone to start a new account, ask in Local "what do I need to solo Naxx", and then throwing daddy's credit card at the game until you win...
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Schalac
Caldari Apocalypse Reign
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Posted - 2009.08.11 17:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Spud Mackenzie Because ISK alone does not equal a better player.
A T1 frigate, operated by a well trained player, can beat the shit out of a Battleship flown by a 3 day old noob.
So merely using a gold seller site, and buying yourself into something big and menacing won't make you uber.
But... being able to instantly min/max your character would go a long way towards being as awesome as you wished you were in real life.
So allowing someone to start a new account, ask in Local "what do I need to solo Naxx", and then throwing daddy's credit card at the game until you win...
Did you even do the math to realize how ridiculously expensive it would be to start a new character out with high skills with the formula I provided? And who the hell is Naxx that I care about soloing him? SCHALAC HAS SPOKEN |
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