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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
58
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:41:00 -
[931] - Quote
Darce Fenix wrote:First post and I'm jumping into the line of fire. I just started playing earlier this month, I intended to start as a pirate (I was wanting to do sort of lone space pirate bit for a while and once it got boring join up with a corp). I was working my way through the tutorial mission and started making some large (comparatively) bits of ISK mining. I switched my focus to mining, read Halada's guide on mining, planned out my first year of training in EveMon so I could remap my attributes, and began mining high-sec. My questions about this thread and idea are two-fold: 1) If the intention of this is to get rid of bots then why would you not encourage people to make contact with said miners before blowing them up? If the intention is to make sure they are being cautious and understanding the danger of the game then once again, contact them, check their fit, see if they are paying attention and don't punish those who are, or even better if they are at the keyboard but new and not understanding the dangers then why not offer them some advice. 3) What exactly constitutes the process of being a safe miner? From what I've read it's something like this:
- Fitting tank - Assuming this refers to shield extenders, DCUs, and Armor in low slots? If I'm missing anything advice would be appreciated.
- Watching local - This is kind of confusing for me, when there are 45 people in local how am I supposed to a note exactly who is coming in when it goes to 46? How am I to determine automatically that someone is on their way to gank me? Should I simply run back to a dock every time someone enters local (that seems incredibly counter-productive).
- Staying Aligned - What exactly does this encompass? Simply aligning to the dock of your choice? I recall reading someone saying if your not aligned to the station and moving 75% of your speed towards it your not aligned, how exactly does one mine while moving away from the asteroid at 75% of max speed?
- Anything I'm Missing - Once again just started a short time ago and I'm interested in mining my way into science/industry but when I read this it almost seems like a doomed venture. I'm new to the game and definitely paying attention, keeping up on the information, and trying to keep in touch with the community but I don't see how a well fitted hulk could survive a suicide gank squad other than luck...
I've read Mittani's blog and article on ten ton hammer, I understand his point of view and don't disagree with it per se, but I don't think that this actually solves any of the problems he's worried about because it punishes those who are trying to actively work their way deeper into the game, if they are booting sure pod them, if they have been playing for years and are hiding in high-sec with no tank sure pod them, if they are new to the game and trying to figure their head from their ass and work into null-sec podding them isn't going to help... This indiscriminate mindset on ganking lends itself far more to the theory the goons are in this for the money... one might consider joining GoonSwarm but unless you know a goon IRL or have been on the SA forums for 3 months your not welcome. For a corp that claims to want to keep Eve great and is "supportive" of new players these actions say something else entirely, please correct me if I'm wrong, I would like to be wrong because last night I talked to a GoonWaffe pilot who was very helpful and I've yet to have any negative interactions with GoonSwarm. Of course I won't be surprised if the response is TL;DR
You are wrong. Goons do care about eve. Infinite Hulkageddon is about money. |
Boston Bradley
M'Tar Deadspace Guard Concordiat Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:46:00 -
[932] - Quote
Hey Mittani,
Sorry let me call you by your real name...Kiddo, why is it your goal to harass and punish the world of New Eden because of your own mistakes. You should take a breath, see a shrink, and get smart. Your actions so far have been nothing but childish.
If I was at the conference I would have decked you. |
Darce Fenix
Taladi Federation Something Posing As Meat
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:46:00 -
[933] - Quote
Alia Gon'die wrote:You are wrong. Goons do care about eve. Infinite Hulkageddon is about money.
To clarify your saying that Goons do care about Eve being successful but that Infinite Hulkageddon is not something they are doing out of care for Eve it's something they are doing for ISK?
Thank you for the prompt response btw. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3267
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:49:00 -
[934] - Quote
Darce Fenix wrote: I've read Mittani's blog and article on ten ton hammer, I understand his point of view and don't disagree with it per se, but I don't think that this actually solves any of the problems he's worried about because it punishes those who are trying to actively work their way deeper into the game, if they are booting sure pod them, if they have been playing for years and are hiding in high-sec with no tank sure pod them, if they are new to the game and trying to figure their head from their ass and work into null-sec podding them isn't going to help...
New players aren't in hulks. People in hulks have spent months training for them and obtaining the isk for them. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1190
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:56:00 -
[935] - Quote
Weaselior wrote: New players aren't in hulks. People in hulks have spent months training for them and obtaining the isk for them.
All the 51 days of it. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3267
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 22:58:00 -
[936] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Weaselior wrote: New players aren't in hulks. People in hulks have spent months training for them and obtaining the isk for them.
All the 51 days of it. It is a reasonable expectation that an actual newbie has not immediately optimized his skillplan for a hulk. If someone is in a hulk after 51 days, they're an alt. |
ChaeDoc II
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
76
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:00:00 -
[937] - Quote
Boston Bradley wrote:Hey Mittani,
Sorry let me call you by your real name...Kiddo, why is it your goal to harass and punish the world of New Eden because of your own mistakes. You should take a breath, see a shrink, and get smart. Your actions so far have been nothing but childish.
If I was at the conference I would have decked you.
20 pages in and we're still seeing 'mad' posts.
Also, what mistake? |
Darce Fenix
Taladi Federation Something Posing As Meat
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:01:00 -
[938] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Darce Fenix wrote: I've read Mittani's blog and article on ten ton hammer, I understand his point of view and don't disagree with it per se, but I don't think that this actually solves any of the problems he's worried about because it punishes those who are trying to actively work their way deeper into the game, if they are booting sure pod them, if they have been playing for years and are hiding in high-sec with no tank sure pod them, if they are new to the game and trying to figure their head from their ass and work into null-sec podding them isn't going to help...
New players aren't in hulks. People in hulks have spent months training for them and obtaining the isk for them.
Point taken, however on Twitter Mittani has been mentioning extending the bounties to T1 Mining Barges which I will be on by the end of this my first month. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1190
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:03:00 -
[939] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Weaselior wrote: New players aren't in hulks. People in hulks have spent months training for them and obtaining the isk for them.
All the 51 days of it. It is a reasonable expectation that an actual newbie has not immediately optimized his skillplan for a hulk. If someone is in a hulk after 51 days, they're an alt.
All the new players get directed to this guide or its original PDF version.
It's a starter profession after all, so it's not really hard to get into it. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Darce Fenix
Taladi Federation Something Posing As Meat
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:03:00 -
[940] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Weaselior wrote: New players aren't in hulks. People in hulks have spent months training for them and obtaining the isk for them.
All the 51 days of it. It is a reasonable expectation that an actual newbie has not immediately optimized his skillplan for a hulk. If someone is in a hulk after 51 days, they're an alt.
This seems counter-intuitive one of Mittani's issues is people not doing the research to really delve into the game so if someone does they are automatically an alt and should be treated as an experienced player? Should I be trying to learn the game or not? |
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3268
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:09:00 -
[941] - Quote
Darce Fenix wrote:Point taken, however on Twitter Mittani has been mentioning extending the bounties to T1 Mining Barges which I will be on by the end of this my first month. In that case, we're doing you a service by encouraging you to try more fun aspects of EVE that are not mining, and also helping you to learn "never fly what you can't afford to lose" in an insurable ship rather than learn it with a hulk like so many miners are now doing. |
Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
58
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:14:00 -
[942] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Darce Fenix wrote:Point taken, however on Twitter Mittani has been mentioning extending the bounties to T1 Mining Barges which I will be on by the end of this my first month. In that case, we're doing you a service by encouraging you to try more fun aspects of EVE that are not mining, and also helping you to learn "never fly what you can't afford to lose" in an insurable ship rather than learn it with a hulk like so many miners are now doing.
Good advice here. |
Ishen Villone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:18:00 -
[943] - Quote
Boston Bradley wrote:Hey Boston Bradley,
Sorry let me call you by your real name...Kiddo, why is it your goal to harass and punish the world of New Eden because of your own mistakes. You should take a breath, see a shrink, and get smart. Your actions so far have been nothing but childish.
Fixed your post for you. Seriously, read your own post and ask yourself who is being childish. Hulkageddon isn't trying to make up for any "mistakes."
It is:
1) Fun 2) Profitable 3) Inspires posts like yours. (see 1) 4) Good for the game. Miners need to learn to think, watch, and adapt just like everyone else. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
360
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:24:00 -
[944] - Quote
Ishen Villone wrote:Boston Bradley wrote:Hey Boston Bradley,
Sorry let me call you by your real name...Kiddo, why is it your goal to harass and punish the world of New Eden because of your own mistakes. You should take a breath, see a shrink, and get smart. Your actions so far have been nothing but childish.
4) Good for the game. Miners need to learn to think, watch, and adapt just like everyone else.
Miners need to do what ever they want to do.
Tal
|
Darce Fenix
Taladi Federation Something Posing As Meat
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:25:00 -
[945] - Quote
If you really want to do me a service post a guide on safe mining, explaining what to look for in local, specifically what the term aligning means, what types of of tanks works best for what mining ships. That's help, repeating what seems to be a mantra in all PvP literature ("don't fly what you can't afford to lose" - check read this and understand it) is redundant.
For a group fighting to preserve their play style (PvP) goons seem remarkably discriminate against another play style (mining). Better yet run public PvP training sessions and teach new players to be safe in low/null sec.
Mittani: "I don't care about the public reaction, I care about the results - the killmails and market impact. Nullsec mining is +++ now."
That doesn't seem to say anything about doing new players a favor, that is in direct response to adding T1 barges to infinite Hulkageddon.
At this point if you actually are helping new players I would appreciate advice on the things I've asked about, otherwise this seems like another way to justify actions taken solely for profit as somehow beneficial to the game as a whole. |
Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:29:00 -
[946] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Ishen Villone wrote:Boston Bradley wrote:Hey Boston Bradley,
Sorry let me call you by your real name...Kiddo, why is it your goal to harass and punish the world of New Eden because of your own mistakes. You should take a breath, see a shrink, and get smart. Your actions so far have been nothing but childish.
4) Good for the game. Miners need to learn to think, watch, and adapt just like everyone else. Miners need to do what ever they want to do. Tal
Well, judging by their actions (or inactions) miners just really want to get blown up.
Edit: at least, the ones who die seem to want to die. |
Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:30:00 -
[947] - Quote
Darce Fenix wrote:If you really want to do me a service post a guide on safe mining, explaining what to look for in local, specifically what the term aligning means, what types of of tanks works best for what mining ships. That's help, repeating what seems to be a mantra in all PvP literature ("don't fly what you can't afford to lose" - check read this and understand it) is redundant.
For a group fighting to preserve their play style (PvP) goons seem remarkably discriminate against another play style (mining). Better yet run public PvP training sessions and teach new players to be safe in low/null sec.
Mittani: "I don't care about the public reaction, I care about the results - the killmails and market impact. Nullsec mining is +++ now."
That doesn't seem to say anything about doing new players a favor, that is in direct response to adding T1 barges to infinite Hulkageddon.
At this point if you actually are helping new players I would appreciate advice on the things I've asked about, otherwise this seems like another way to justify actions taken solely for profit as somehow beneficial to the game as a whole.
This advice is literally EVERYWHERE on this forum. Probably on every couple of pages in this thread even. |
No More Heroes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
466
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:34:00 -
[948] - Quote
Darce Fenix wrote:If you really want to do me a service post a guide on safe mining, explaining what to look for in local, specifically what the term aligning means, what types of of tanks works best for what mining ships. That's help, repeating what seems to be a mantra in all PvP literature ("don't fly what you can't afford to lose" - check read this and understand it) is redundant.
For a group fighting to preserve their play style (PvP) goons seem remarkably discriminate against another play style (mining). Better yet run public PvP training sessions and teach new players to be safe in low/null sec.
Mittani: "I don't care about the public reaction, I care about the results - the killmails and market impact. Nullsec mining is +++ now."
That doesn't seem to say anything about doing new players a favor, that is in direct response to adding T1 barges to infinite Hulkageddon.
At this point if you actually are helping new players I would appreciate advice on the things I've asked about, otherwise this seems like another way to justify actions taken solely for profit as somehow beneficial to the game as a whole.
I'm curious who or what steered you towards mining in the first place? I did it exactly once, in the tutorial and couldn't imagine doing it for days and weeks and /gasp years. On the weekends I wake up and I head to my computer straight away and log into jabber to see if there's and fleets/ops up and I look forward to logging into the game.
Do people actually wake up on a weekend and think to themselves: "**** yeah! I got the whole day off to do some mining!!" . |
Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:37:00 -
[949] - Quote
No More Heroes wrote:Darce Fenix wrote:If you really want to do me a service post a guide on safe mining, explaining what to look for in local, specifically what the term aligning means, what types of of tanks works best for what mining ships. That's help, repeating what seems to be a mantra in all PvP literature ("don't fly what you can't afford to lose" - check read this and understand it) is redundant.
For a group fighting to preserve their play style (PvP) goons seem remarkably discriminate against another play style (mining). Better yet run public PvP training sessions and teach new players to be safe in low/null sec.
Mittani: "I don't care about the public reaction, I care about the results - the killmails and market impact. Nullsec mining is +++ now."
That doesn't seem to say anything about doing new players a favor, that is in direct response to adding T1 barges to infinite Hulkageddon.
At this point if you actually are helping new players I would appreciate advice on the things I've asked about, otherwise this seems like another way to justify actions taken solely for profit as somehow beneficial to the game as a whole. I'm curious who or what steered you towards mining in the first place? I did it exactly once, in the tutorial and couldn't imagine doing it for days and weeks and /gasp years. On the weekends I wake up and I head to my computer straight away and log into jabber to see if there's and fleets/ops up and I look forward to logging into the game. Do people actually wake up on a weekend and think to themselves: "**** yeah! I got the whole day off to do some mining!!"
My main is dedicated to mining and shipping. I started doing it cause being at the bottom of the production cycle seemed interesting. Plus sitting in mumble with my merchi buddies during a mining op getting drunk and bullshitting was really, really fun. |
Darce Fenix
Taladi Federation Something Posing As Meat
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:42:00 -
[950] - Quote
No More Heroes wrote:I'm curious who or what steered you towards mining in the first place? I did it exactly once, in the tutorial and couldn't imagine doing it for days and weeks and /gasp years. On the weekends I wake up and I head to my computer straight away and log into jabber to see if there's and fleets/ops up and I look forward to logging into the game.
Do people actually wake up on a weekend and think to themselves: "**** yeah! I got the whole day off to do some mining!!"
Actually it was the fact that one load of Dense Veldspar made me more than 5-10 of the tutorial missions in a very short time. 1 million ISK is a lot of ISK when your making thousands. Plus I got invited to a mining corp full of pretty nice people so why the hell not, the plan was to get good at mining and then move into Science/Industry later. |
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Darce Fenix
Taladi Federation Something Posing As Meat
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:48:00 -
[951] - Quote
Alia Gon'die wrote:This advice is literally EVERYWHERE on this forum. Probably on every couple of pages in this thread even.
It is everywhere in this thread in a vague, non-specific form, how the hell are you supposed to mine when aligned = "aligned to station and moving at 75% of max velocity" flying away from asteroids makes it a bit difficult to mine.
Watch local - for what exactly when there are 45+ people how do you watch one specific person enter the system?
What kind of tank will actually keep a group of suicide gankers from blowing a mining barge to pieces, it honestly seems doubtful in general?
The devil is in the details... or GoonSwarm based on some peoples opinions (not my own necessarily, as I've said before I understand the ideals Mittani claims to be working for even if I don't agree that the actions he's taking work towards those ideals) |
Syndrea Caedrion
State War Academy Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 23:48:00 -
[952] - Quote
If by emergent you mean rehashed and possessing of thinly veiled motives that Stevie Wonder can see through, then you nailed it on the head.
This is nothing new...well, except for the bounty system in place now. It's not like people wait for a Geddon to gank others. I appreciate the effort, but if it does nothing for Eve as a whole first, then it's an empty gesture. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1007
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 06:22:00 -
[953] - Quote
Darce Fenix wrote:No More Heroes wrote:I'm curious who or what steered you towards mining in the first place? I did it exactly once, in the tutorial and couldn't imagine doing it for days and weeks and /gasp years. On the weekends I wake up and I head to my computer straight away and log into jabber to see if there's and fleets/ops up and I look forward to logging into the game.
Do people actually wake up on a weekend and think to themselves: "**** yeah! I got the whole day off to do some mining!!" Actually it was the fact that one load of Dense Veldspar made me more than 5-10 of the tutorial missions in a very short time. 1 million ISK is a lot of ISK when your making thousands. Plus I got invited to a mining corp full of pretty nice people so why the hell not, the plan was to get good at mining and then move into Science/Industry later. Some of the newbies mine, but most don't though, still go for ratting.
I think a majority of the mining is done by vets who can multibox 4+, 8+ hulks, getting as much out of the rorqural bonus and using the capacity of a rorqural hauler (4 hulks keeps an orca busy, or so I'm told). Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Fatbottom Girl
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:22:00 -
[954] - Quote
The real numbers behind emergent gameplay in this latest dev blog.
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=72833 |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1219
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:31:00 -
[955] - Quote
No More Heroes wrote: Do people actually wake up on a weekend and think to themselves: "**** yeah! I got the whole day off to do some mining!!"
No they actually get late to home, very tired because they had to RL PvP against their boss and colleagues all day long and just want to do something relaxing and light minded. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
No More Heroes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
508
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:33:00 -
[956] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:No More Heroes wrote: Do people actually wake up on a weekend and think to themselves: "**** yeah! I got the whole day off to do some mining!!"
No they actually get late to home, very tired because they had to RL PvP against their boss and colleagues all day long and just want to do something relaxing and light minded.
We call those slosh ops. Get drunk and shoot some people
in the face . |
Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:35:00 -
[957] - Quote
No More Heroes wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:No More Heroes wrote: Do people actually wake up on a weekend and think to themselves: "**** yeah! I got the whole day off to do some mining!!"
No they actually get late to home, very tired because they had to RL PvP against their boss and colleagues all day long and just want to do something relaxing and light minded. We call those slosh ops. Get drunk and shoot some people in the face
You are a madman, obviously. |
Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
70
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:39:00 -
[958] - Quote
Darce Fenix wrote:
Watch local - for what exactly when there are 45+ people how do you watch one specific person enter the system?
Don't mine in places where Local has 45+ people?
I'm currently settled in a system with 6 stations, 8 asteroid fields, and a Local that ranges from 3-17 people.
although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1220
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:41:00 -
[959] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:Darce Fenix wrote:
Watch local - for what exactly when there are 45+ people how do you watch one specific person enter the system?
Don't mine in places where Local has 45+ people? I'm currently settled in a system with 6 stations, 8 asteroid fields, and a Local that ranges from 3-17 people.
I am totally going to tell my customers to go mine ice in places where local has 3 people. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
453
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 18:54:00 -
[960] - Quote
Alia Gon'die wrote:No More Heroes wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:No More Heroes wrote: Do people actually wake up on a weekend and think to themselves: "**** yeah! I got the whole day off to do some mining!!"
No they actually get late to home, very tired because they had to RL PvP against their boss and colleagues all day long and just want to do something relaxing and light minded. We call those slosh ops. Get drunk and shoot some people in the face You are a madman, obviously.
No, you're clearly an evil sociopath and morally equivalent to a member of Al Qaeda or the Waffen SS. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
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