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Mersault
Blue Nine Industries
85
|
Posted - 2012.05.29 23:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
I am mad because there have been endless threads pointing out to high sec Hulk miners how you can reduce your viability as a target during hulkagedon.
I am mad because a hulk miner losing an untanked Hulk, empty med slots, with a tracking comp fitted and over a bn pod loss during hulkagedon spawns another thread, 7 pages long last I looked.
I am mad because people losing ships during a massive suicide-you-cos-we-can event , which happens every year and this year happens to be sponsored by the EvE bad guys means people call for changes to the game to make it better for them.
I am even madder because this whole event sponsored by them most likely furthers their own goals in consolidating their own position in this game of EvE - which they are playing and winning and everyone else whines about.
I am mad because instead of asking for changes from CCP, we don't just change what we do ourselves to counter the threat.
I am mad because people ask for CCP to change the game instead of people actually getting together and doing something in this big huge sandbox game where we can all do whatever we want to do, at any time in the EULA.
I am mad seeing folks asking for Hulk tank buffs or gank changes when people who want to mine should all band together against a single consolidated threat.
That's why I am mad.
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Focktardsky Qqnen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.05.29 23:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
mining in a paladin is fun |
James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1782
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Posted - 2012.05.29 23:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
Mersault wrote:I am mad because there have been endless threads pointing out to high sec Hulk miners how you can reduce your viability as a target during hulkagedon.
I am mad because a hulk miner losing an untanked Hulk, empty med slots, with a tracking comp fitted and over a bn pod loss during hulkagedon spawns another thread, 7 pages long last I looked.
I am mad because people losing ships during a massive suicide-you-cos-we-can event , which happens every year and this year happens to be sponsored by the EvE bad guys means people call for changes to the game to make it better for them.
I am even madder because this whole event sponsored by them most likely furthers their own goals in consolidating their own position in this game of EvE - which they are playing and winning and everyone else whines about.
I am mad because instead of asking for changes from CCP, we don't just change what we do ourselves to counter the threat.
I am mad because people ask for CCP to change the game instead of people actually getting together and doing something in this big huge sandbox game where we can all do whatever we want to do, at any time in the EULA.
I am mad seeing folks asking for Hulk tank buffs or gank changes when people who want to mine should all band together against a single consolidated threat.
That's why I am mad. You're right to be angry at the miners. You should join the anti-miner crusade. Put your anger to good use. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
942
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Posted - 2012.05.29 23:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
Mersault wrote:I am mad seeing folks asking for Hulk tank buffs or gank changes when people who want to mine should all band together against a single consolidated threat. They are though. The banding together is necessary to put up a unified front of whining and demands for hulk tank buffs or gank nerfs.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Mersault
Blue Nine Industries
85
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Posted - 2012.05.29 23:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Mersault wrote:I am mad seeing folks asking for Hulk tank buffs or gank changes when people who want to mine should all band together against a single consolidated threat. They are though. The banding together is necessary to put up a unified front of whining and demands for hulk tank buffs or gank nerfs.
Yes indeed I just wish the energy expunged on the forums may somehow bleed into how people actually play this game :)
But after Incarna gate if there is enough herp derp on forums CCP will change the game for us right ? right ?
Halp ? |
Caghji
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.05.30 00:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
Quote:So this got me thinking further... what kind of idiot came up with this game mechanic? Who thought it would be a good idea to implement this as the main source of materials for ships that are used in Internet space ****? It's the exact opposite of what Eve should be. Things in eve should be risky, but above that, things in eve should be exhilarating. Mining is NOT exhilarating. Well, maybe it is during Hulkageddon. If you are an idiot that is.
I like mining
I sit out at the belt with my couple of accounts and with a couple of corp mates - chilling
We chat about what ever is topical at the time - we browse the web we listen to music etcetc -
then i refine my hard day's work
then i make stuff with the minerals
then i sell on market
and make a ton of cash
however
in recent months i got involved in this PvP lark (after all i have all those billions in cash so i got to burn it on something) - so....
joined the local alliance gang roams - and guess what - typical example follows.........
we jump to a gate - hang there for 20mins waiting for the red to come through from the next system (hmmmm interesting) - he comes in - bubble up - after 2 cycles of firing he is dead - lot's of in channel jock leg slapping and hoots - then go to the next gate - wait 5 mins - kill the next one - then we get word a red gang 3 times as big as ours is coming down the pipe - so we dock up - for an hour! ......until they leave the area - hmmmmmm - rinse and repeat rinse and repeat ad nosium......hmmmmmm
.....after a few months i return to mining ......BECAUSE ITS MORE INTERESTING......!......i do have the fleet skills now to kill loan reds who want to kill my mining ships now so its not all wasted - oh and is it me or are miner's a tad more pleasant in character to hang and chat with than a lot of the PvP jocks out there? (not all ofc).........
shrugs
the important attraction of eve ofc is that as a good sandbox it has something for everyone (for example i absolutely HATE ratting - really reaaly hate it )
So u might think your little area is the best (mining for me - PvP for u) but that is just my (your) opinion -
TLDR; - stop whining |
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
10
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Posted - 2012.05.30 00:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
I've tried explaining to people in MINING chat that you can actually "tank" your hulk rather than going for max yield. I've mentioned that you can find a dead-end system and keep an eye on local. I've mentioned that you can align and stay at 3/4 speed so you can insta-warp.
The response I get? Hulks need to be buffed, it doesn't matter how much you tank them they still get ganked, might as well go max yield, yadda yadda.
What I think would be hilarious is if they did buff hulks... by giving them an extra low slot or rig, because you know the first thing that would go in there would be another cargo mod, which of course would lower their ehp even more. |
Mersault
Blue Nine Industries
85
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Posted - 2012.05.30 00:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
Caghji,I absolutely salute your resolve to enjoy what you play and how you play. I hope you can organize people in mining gangs to strip mine belts in high sec and beyond if possible with more than exhumers and orca's
Because if the risk of gank matters, it is worth putting characters in other ships to counter that risk sacrificing reduced yield.
IMHO the biggest impact of hulkagedon is witnessing how an organized group of players working together can disrupt the operations of disparate individuals going out on their own.
What really annoys me is how this is positioned by people as CCP's fault, rather than people organizing and actually playing together in this game.
For me, it is the ability of groups to work together to make fundamental changes to the world of our game for good or bad which makes it what it is. |
Mersault
Blue Nine Industries
85
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Posted - 2012.05.30 00:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
Andoria Thara wrote:I've tried explaining to people in MINING chat that you can actually "tank" your hulk rather than going for max yield. I've mentioned that you can find a dead-end system and keep an eye on local. I've mentioned that you can align and stay at 3/4 speed so you can insta-warp.
The response I get? Hulks need to be buffed, it doesn't matter how much you tank them they still get ganked, might as well go max yield, yadda yadda.
What I think would be hilarious is if they did buff hulks... by giving them an extra low slot or rig, because you know the first thing that would go in there would be another cargo mod, which of course would lower their ehp even more.
Quoting for truth
My Alt mines in a Hulk in high sec, it is tanked. Reasonable EHP. I remember mining with someone for a few hours, comparing fits. He berated my meta4 mining upgrade and DC, instead of two T2 . He wondered why I bothered to fit two passive resist mods and a T2 Invuln, wasting CPU on tank instead of T2 mining upgrades. Having two shield extenders and no cargo rigs made him laugh, I kept docking every two cycles to unload my Hulk.
Oh how it must be so annoying to dock all the time he said.
He lost his to a gank two weeks later, I am still flying mine. He is more annoyed.
The game doesn't need to be changed, you do. And no, I am not omnipotent, I am just a little bit harder to gank than you. Which is why you are chosen next. |
Shea Valerien
House of Valerien
31
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Posted - 2012.05.30 00:33:00 -
[40] - Quote
This is because almost all miners, like myself, do mining while semi-afk. I, for example, do it while I'm at work. I am paying attention about 50% of the time. Sometimes I have to walk away to a meeting I'm suddenly called to and have to leave the computer for 5-10 minutes. There's no point in "tanking" my ship when a group can come along and just gank me without me responding (I do put a bit of tank on just to keep a couple of dessies from being able to kill me before concord shows up).
When I'm home and playing actively, I don't mine. I highly doubt anybody else that is paying full attention to the game is mining either. It's boring as hell. It doesn't require attention. And there are much more profitable things to do when you're actually playing the game.
So it's not so much that miners fail, it's just that they're understanding the risks that go along with mining and accepting that there will be some losses. If the income exceeds the losses by a sufficient amount to justify the effort, then folks will do it. |
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Macks Artilius
The Circus Corp Intrepid Crossing
62
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Posted - 2012.05.30 00:38:00 -
[41] - Quote
I hear mining Rokhs are making a comeback. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
614
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Posted - 2012.05.30 00:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ditra Vorthran wrote:Vicky Somers wrote:So don't mine in a Hulk and don't mine alone. You sound like a pretty intelligent person, yet you fail when you say that there is no defense. Bring an orca, dock up. Bring ewar. Bring a Rokh with smartbombs. Bring amberlamps. Do something. The problem with the solutions above is the basic assumption that it is a matter of EHP vs DPS. No matter how much EHP, either by remote rep, personal boosting, or avoidance via ECM, that isnGÇÖt the issue. ItGÇÖs an issue of balancing the predator vs. prey gameplay (see my post on that topic: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1359427#post1359427) which is in reality a wide variety of gameplay changes that need to be made. ThatGÇÖs why I agree with you that the mining mechanics need to be changed, but simple means of defense are not a solution Vicky Somers wrote:See, this is the problem right there. Whenever someone comes up with a smart tactic, you people want CCP to give you some epic ship that will solve everything at the push of a button. Why not? It worked for destroyers. :P
Not really, no.
The real problem is a combination of this: * People want to mine alone, not in groups. * People want slack-, risk-free mining where they don't have to pay attention. * People use expensive mining vessels doing so. If miners stuck to using cheap mining ships in highsec, noone would even lift an eyebrow about ganking. (risk vs reward) * Miners often don't pay attention to surroundings and their fitting, "I'm not a PvPer so I don't have to" (lazy/ignorant). * Highend ore's are not as profitable as they used to, when miners actually did mine them (it wasn't too long ago you could make nearly half a bil an hour mining with just four-five Hulks in null).
Most of this is an issue about mentality. If players would start mine in groups again, and if they'd stop using exhumers in highsec, alot of these "problems" would magicly go away immediately.
The "boring" aspect about mining is something I believe is wrong tho, alot of miners actually enjoy this low-attention way of playing. I have friends who think mining is the most enjoyable aspect in EVE (don't ask me why, I have no clue!). So the only real 'fix' apart from player mentality, would be to have a glance at the profits when mining in low-, nullsec or WH's. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Horus Ernaga
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 01:16:00 -
[43] - Quote
I don't see why we can't leave the miners alone? It's boring as hell. Doesn't make a whole lot of ISK compared to other professions. Less fun to kill than a real fight.
I hear about people not only ganking mining ships, but podding them as well. Doesn't make sense to me, I don't pod anyone unless they are from a corporation that declared war on me. |
Helena Russell Makanen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
67
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Posted - 2012.05.30 01:25:00 -
[44] - Quote
Vicky Somers wrote:The fact that more exhumers were destroyed this Hulkageddon than ever not only proves that more people are ganking, but also that more miners are letting themselves become a victim.
Actually didn't this Hulkageddon last three times longer than the last? Were three times as many ships destroyed? If not then you are in error from your first line.... |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
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Posted - 2012.05.30 01:25:00 -
[45] - Quote
Vicky Somers wrote:lanyaie wrote:Uhm i dont understand are you a butthurt miner or a butthurt person because mineral prices are going up? I'm butthurd because of the sambal soaked d+¦nner kebab I ate yesterday. My point is... if I ever had one. I don't know. Mining was a ******** concept from the start. People who do it and get ganked don't belong in Eve. And I see much tear potential in the "heavy duty" gankers who act like they're doing something special here. Moon mining is a great idea. Just like PI but with more work involved and a good risk factor.
You still have to collect your PI from the customs office, and come Dust you'll be dealing with people trying to blow your colonies up.
Moon mining isn't entirely safe either, and not intended as an every man activety. |
Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
75
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Posted - 2012.05.30 01:28:00 -
[46] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:You still have to collect your PI from the customs office, and come Dust you'll be dealing with people trying to blow your colonies up.
Moon mining isn't entirely safe either, and not intended as an every man activety.
Please don't talk to me about Dust. Ever since I played the beta I have had a permanent taste of vomit in my mouth. |
Ditra Vorthran
State War Academy Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2012.05.30 02:39:00 -
[47] - Quote
* forum screw up, ignore * |
Frying Doom
202
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 02:47:00 -
[48] - Quote
I am a fan of mining I really like it but with all this I must say why bother.
Jump on the winning side and help kill all the exhumers in Hi-sec and after that why not strike into lo-sec and null. If accounts closing over this was going to get CCP to do anything they would have by now.
So why fight EvE becoming a Primarily PvP game just join the gankers. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
Local Channel in Null must Die. Jump Drives need Nerfing. Null is meant to be dangerous and hard. Not safe and boring. |
Hroya
64
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 02:57:00 -
[49] - Quote
Mining isnt boring, barges and exhumers made it boring. It's a good thing that those buckets get wacked left and right. Awefull ships and i still am to lazy to log in to get rid of mine.. oops. Now if only you could mine ice in a battleship then all would be oke. (well except that the person who thought icemining would be really good gameplay should seriously be smacked on the head )
You go your corridor but. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
514
|
Posted - 2012.05.30 03:26:00 -
[50] - Quote
Renn Aldard wrote:I'm a miner. Never been ganked. Never taken any sort of defensive measures to counter ganking. People complaining on the forum give us a bad rep.
Start Date 2012:03:24
Yeah, that explains a lot. Nobody is interested in ganking your noob ship, noob. It takes 51 days to sit in a hulk, and up to 6 months to fly it properly. Before you go thinking "oh EVE isn't so bad, no one ever ganks me" make sure you're correcting for the observer effect... |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
945
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Posted - 2012.05.30 03:41:00 -
[51] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Renn Aldard wrote:I'm a miner. Never been ganked. Never taken any sort of defensive measures to counter ganking. People complaining on the forum give us a bad rep. Start Date 2012:03:24 Yeah, that explains a lot. Nobody is interested in ganking your noob ship, noob. It takes 51 days to sit in a hulk, and up to 6 months to fly it properly. Before you go thinking "oh EVE isn't so bad, no one ever ganks me" make sure you're correcting for the observer effect... It could be another mining alt.
I started a bunch recently. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
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