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Anton Cyldragen
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Posted - 2009.08.25 00:10:00 -
[31]
something like overheating the drones would be nice and this fits well. just as long as its not overpowered.
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Garthran
Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders
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Posted - 2009.08.25 03:12:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Anton Cyldragen something like overheating the drones would be nice and this fits well. just as long as its not overpowered.
which is would be my primary goal in such an endeavor. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
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Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2009.08.25 03:50:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Sir Substance on 25/08/2009 03:50:35 ive always wanted little 1m3 drones that explode doing like 1000 damage each.
edit: 1k is probably excessive, but still. ------ I, for one, welcome our new console overlords! |
ark maphar
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Posted - 2009.08.25 04:03:00 -
[34]
Edited by: ark maphar on 25/08/2009 04:03:54
Originally by: Sir Substance Edited by: Sir Substance on 25/08/2009 03:50:35 ive always wanted little 1m3 drones that explode doing like 1000 damage each.
edit: 1k is probably excessive, but still.
yeah, just like a missile with a impulse engine in it so since there is no fuel, it can hold more explosives.
and it can fly indefinatly
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Garthran
Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders
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Posted - 2009.08.25 08:36:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sir Substance Edited by: Sir Substance on 25/08/2009 03:50:35 ive always wanted little 1m3 drones that explode doing like 1000 damage each.
edit: 1k is probably excessive, but still.
This is exactly what I don't want. A guided munition with no purpose except a single strike on a target is a missile. If my idea is ever implemented I hope to avoid ever seeing a drone designed with the sole intention of suiciding. I want a risk = reward mechanic for drones. I recognize that my suicide idea is scary to some people who are afraid of change, and I'd be willing to settle for an overheating mechanic as mentioned earlier in the thread. But I don't want drones to turn into something like the Turtle Shells in Mariokart, just orbiting you until you fire them at something.
The application of this idea to EWar drones recently occurred to me, and at the moment I would have to say I am against applying EWAR effects as a result of EWAR drone kamikaze. I doubt an ECM module would react in a beneficial manner when compressed in the same way that a munitions stockpile would, so I see no logical reason for a webber drone crashing into a target to cause the target to become webbed. The same applies with neut, ECM, TP, TD, SD... no EWar effects applied by suiciding EWar drones. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
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Imiarr Timshae
Caldari Funny Men In Funny Hats
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Posted - 2009.08.25 08:56:00 -
[36]
Terrible idea, the Ishkur would become a fleet suicide drone ship.
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Nol Agnot
Nightwatch Immortal
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Posted - 2009.08.25 10:02:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Imiarr Timshae Terrible idea, the Ishkur would become a fleet suicide drone ship.
But think of all the explosions!
Delenda est achura. |
Polinus
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.08.25 12:20:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Garthran
Originally by: XXXAKTIVE I imagine 10 suicide vexors launch 5 suicide mid drones each at ORCA lol. Nice tool to fight macro miners XD It sounds fun, but too unfair
10 Vexors with medium drones could probably kill an Orca before it got away anyway :P
But yes, as previously stated, avoiding turning this into a 1-shot gank weapon is my top priority.
thisnk that is not he major issue. THe major issue is at the end of battle Take mega.. is fightign a tempest.. that mircaulowsly is winning. Tempest is at half hull mega is at 1/3 hull... then orgres suicide and tempest PUFFF....
Too overpowered.
Could only work with DEDICATED suicidal drones. Drones that can only suicide.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.08.25 12:42:00 -
[39]
Maybe we could call these semi-autonomous self-guided drones "missiles"?
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Gautan Virdamot
Nebula Rasa Vanguard
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Posted - 2009.08.25 14:29:00 -
[40]
Dedicated drones, something like those droids from Star Wars that grappled onto the hull and started tearing the ship apart, going down with their target?
I'd like that. Impossible to target for the enemy save for the smartbomb but them being disposable monogamous packages of doom they need to take less space in the hold or be of the small persuasion.
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Anton Cyldragen
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Posted - 2009.08.25 17:31:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Polinus
Originally by: Garthran
Originally by: XXXAKTIVE I imagine 10 suicide vexors launch 5 suicide mid drones each at ORCA lol. Nice tool to fight macro miners XD It sounds fun, but too unfair
10 Vexors with medium drones could probably kill an Orca before it got away anyway :P
But yes, as previously stated, avoiding turning this into a 1-shot gank weapon is my top priority.
thisnk that is not he major issue. THe major issue is at the end of battle Take mega.. is fightign a tempest.. that mircaulowsly is winning. Tempest is at half hull mega is at 1/3 hull... then orgres suicide and tempest PUFFF....
Too overpowered.
Could only work with DEDICATED suicidal drones. Drones that can only suicide.
pest has drones too
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Garthran
Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:42:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Polinus
Originally by: Garthran
Originally by: XXXAKTIVE I imagine 10 suicide vexors launch 5 suicide mid drones each at ORCA lol. Nice tool to fight macro miners XD It sounds fun, but too unfair
10 Vexors with medium drones could probably kill an Orca before it got away anyway :P
But yes, as previously stated, avoiding turning this into a 1-shot gank weapon is my top priority.
thisnk that is not he major issue. THe major issue is at the end of battle Take mega.. is fightign a tempest.. that mircaulowsly is winning. Tempest is at half hull mega is at 1/3 hull... then orgres suicide and tempest PUFFF....
Too overpowered.
Could only work with DEDICATED suicidal drones. Drones that can only suicide.
Explain to me how using a weapon in an unexpected manner is overpowered. In that situation it still looks like a close battle to me. And that kind of situation is EXACTLY what I would want this mechanic for. An ace in the hole, you might say. I think that a flight of Ogre IIs that are able to destroy themselves (Handicapping any further DPS from the mega, I might add) in order to destroy the last half of a Tempest's structure (Without a DCU) doesn't sound overpowered. I mean, the Megathron only has 125m3 drone bay. He's not gonna be able to do that trick twice. He's not gonna be able to use it as a primary weapon. Its a last-ditch, one-shot strike. Sacrifice something in hopes of not losing everything.
Yeah, I'm not seeing how that particular situation paints this mechanic as overpowered. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
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Garthran
Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders
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Posted - 2009.08.25 18:52:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Imiarr Timshae Terrible idea, the Ishkur would become a fleet suicide drone ship.
Possible. However, a few points- Ishkur has 25 mbit/s bandwidth, and with perfect skills a 50m3 drone bay. That means either 2 flights of light drones, 3 partial flights of medium drones, or 2 flights of 1 heavy drone. 5 light drones versus a hard target would do laughable damage. A small target would have to be sitting dead in space to receive full damage from them, and would have to be 100% honor tanked to be 1-shot-killed by them. 2 medium drones, once again, laughable damage to hard targets, mass differential would cause some damage to bleed off when hitting a small target, even more so if, once again, the target was moving. 1 heavy drone, once again, inconsequential damage to a hard target, mass differential would cause a large amount of bleedoff versus small targets, if indeed it can even catch them. This is not an instant-hit weapon. It can still be outrun like a missile. A travel-time mechanic would be reasonable to me; perhaps the drone slowly takes hull damage while MWDing after the target, and once it runs out of hull it simply explodes uselessly.
Furthermore, as I noted earlier, a relaunch delay time would almost certainly be necessary. Thus, that Ishkur would have to wait, theoretically, 30 seconds before even launching the next flight of drones.
Sorry, but I'm not seeing how an Ishkur suiciding drones into things would really change the battle. It'd only be handicapping its own ability to engage. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
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Garthran
Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders
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Posted - 2009.08.26 00:17:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gautan Virdamot Dedicated drones, something like those droids from Star Wars that grappled onto the hull and started tearing the ship apart, going down with their target?
I'd like that. Impossible to target for the enemy save for the smartbomb but them being disposable monogamous packages of doom they need to take less space in the hold or be of the small persuasion.
Unkillable damage over time attached to an enemy? Even less what I want than dedicated bomb-drones.
Not at all my idea. Do not want. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2009.08.26 03:09:00 -
[45]
Suicide Drones are called missiles and already exist in the game. They can even be fitted to ships that don't have a drone bay!
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Garthran
Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders
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Posted - 2009.08.26 03:22:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Garthran on 26/08/2009 03:25:49
Originally by: Lana Torrin Suicide Drones are called missiles and already exist in the game. They can even be fitted to ships that don't have a drone bay!
Gosh, thanks, I never knew that!
Missiles, you say? How interesting. Its almost as if they behave incredibly differently than my proposed mechanic. So I don't see much overlap.
Thanks for your support, though! ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2009.08.26 05:28:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Garthran Edited by: Garthran on 26/08/2009 03:25:49
Originally by: Lana Torrin Suicide Drones are called missiles and already exist in the game. They can even be fitted to ships that don't have a drone bay!
Gosh, thanks, I never knew that!
Missiles, you say? How interesting. Its almost as if they behave incredibly differently than my proposed mechanic. So I don't see much overlap.
Thanks for your support, though!
Adding the ability to blow up and damage nearby ships will overpower drones. I mean if im in something like a carrier and I get attacked by some small ships I would USUALLY have an issue with this without support.. Now all I would have to do is suicide some of my 800 million drones in to them and problem solved.
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Garthran
Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders
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Posted - 2009.08.26 05:50:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Lana Torrin Adding the ability to blow up and damage nearby ships will overpower drones. I mean if im in something like a carrier and I get attacked by some small ships I would USUALLY have an issue with this without support.. Now all I would have to do is suicide some of my 800 million drones in to them and problem solved.
Read the thread for reasonable counters to just that sort of behavior. And I'm not suggesting turning drones into flying smartbombs, just single-use projectiles.
Discussion is fine. I'll happily discuss concerns with you. But don't just pop in and say "no".
Thanks! ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2009.08.26 05:57:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Garthran
Originally by: Lana Torrin Adding the ability to blow up and damage nearby ships will overpower drones. I mean if im in something like a carrier and I get attacked by some small ships I would USUALLY have an issue with this without support.. Now all I would have to do is suicide some of my 800 million drones in to them and problem solved.
Read the thread for reasonable counters to just that sort of behavior. And I'm not suggesting turning drones into flying smartbombs, just single-use projectiles.
Discussion is fine. I'll happily discuss concerns with you. But don't just pop in and say "no".
Thanks!
I didn't just pop in and say no.. I popped in and said what you are basically detailing is the ability to stock a limited number of very high damage missiles.. I'm against the idea because I feel that drones are already powerful enough without this ability and it would overpower the ships that can carry many many racks of them (ie, the domi and carriers).
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3r5k1n3
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Posted - 2009.08.26 06:09:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Lana Torrin
Originally by: Garthran
Originally by: Lana Torrin Adding the ability to blow up and damage nearby ships will overpower drones. I mean if im in something like a carrier and I get attacked by some small ships I would USUALLY have an issue with this without support.. Now all I would have to do is suicide some of my 800 million drones in to them and problem solved.
Read the thread for reasonable counters to just that sort of behavior. And I'm not suggesting turning drones into flying smartbombs, just single-use projectiles.
Discussion is fine. I'll happily discuss concerns with you. But don't just pop in and say "no".
Thanks!
I didn't just pop in and say no.. I popped in and said what you are basically detailing is the ability to stock a limited number of very high damage missiles.. I'm against the idea because I feel that drones are already powerful enough without this ability and it would overpower the ships that can carry many many racks of them (ie, the domi and carriers).
And of course this is because you are a freakin' brilliant game developer with years of experience doing computer simulations of real world physics...
Well let me suggest:
1) **** OFF AND DIE. 2) Commit suicied by anal intercourse with a hippotomus 3) Find a better way to be a *****.
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Merovee
Amarr Gorthaur Legion
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Posted - 2009.08.26 06:31:00 -
[51]
hmm I wonder if missiles would work better?
Of Mordor
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Garthran
Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders
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Posted - 2009.08.26 07:16:00 -
[52]
Originally by: 3r5k1n3 This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.
Regards, The EVE Online Moderation team
Aww, didn't get in fast enough to see what this said. That makes me sad. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2009.08.26 07:19:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Garthran
Originally by: 3r5k1n3 This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.
Regards, The EVE Online Moderation team
Aww, didn't get in fast enough to see what this said. That makes me sad.
He was just trolling me. It had nothing to do with your idea.
FYI, I can see what you are getting at, I just think it will be abused by some players in specific ships (like me, in a domi or ishtar)
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Garthran
Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders
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Posted - 2009.08.26 07:58:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Lana Torrin
Originally by: Garthran
Originally by: Lana Torrin Adding the ability to blow up and damage nearby ships will overpower drones. I mean if im in something like a carrier and I get attacked by some small ships I would USUALLY have an issue with this without support.. Now all I would have to do is suicide some of my 800 million drones in to them and problem solved.
Read the thread for reasonable counters to just that sort of behavior. And I'm not suggesting turning drones into flying smartbombs, just single-use projectiles.
Discussion is fine. I'll happily discuss concerns with you. But don't just pop in and say "no".
Thanks!
I didn't just pop in and say no.. I popped in and said what you are basically detailing is the ability to stock a limited number of very high damage missiles.. I'm against the idea because I feel that drones are already powerful enough without this ability and it would overpower the ships that can carry many many racks of them (ie, the domi and carriers).
I'm proposing a mechanic that would have (at my current numbers) twice the volley damage of a comparable sized missile, with a theoretical cooldown much greater than 2x that of a comparable sized missile launcher. And you actually lose an aspect of your ship's firepower by using it. The pure low DPS values would make it not only impractical, but impossible to use as a primary attack, except in massive gank situations, which would surprisingly kill the target with or without drones. It is simply a way to give a death-or-glory ability to drone users. And as I said, I would obviously be against allowing fighters to suicide, and I think letting fighters behave normally is probably going to be a better use of a carrier pilot's time than suiciding wave after expensive wave of Berserker IIs into enemies.
However, to satiate my own curiosity, I'm going to work out the comparison and possibly eat my own foot.
Let's imagine perfect skills. A Thanatos with 15 fighter drones is generating 1875 drone DPS according to EFT. With 15 Berserker IIs, behaving normally, that same Thanatos would be dealing 772 DPS.
With my proposed mechanic, the heavy drone average x-value would be 0.00006593. That would make the suicide damage of a Berserker 2 (with Drone Navigation at level 5) 1,038 (rounded off to 4 significant digits). A flight of 15 would then deal 15,570 volley damage. With my proposed 30 second relaunch delay, that's only 519 DPS, not accounting for drone travel time.
That raw volley damage, too, would be modified by mass differential and velocity differential, so only static structures and capital ships would feel the full force of that attack, and they would generally shrug it off. A buffer tanked battleship would be heavily damaged, yes, but not one-shotted.
Of course, someone might lolfit a bunch of drone navigation computers, which would of course up the damage potential, but that's no different from fitting BCUs or Magstabs. The fact that drone users also lack ship equipment to increase the damage output of their combat drones gives me all more reason to say "Throw us a bone!"
And yes, if, say, and enemy dread was falling low into structure, you could recall all fighters and launch Beserkers to finish it off. But that would only be worth it if that same dread was tearing you down. Then, maybe, the suiciding drones would deal just enough damage to kill him. Or maybe recalling and relaunching drones would take too long, and he'd kill you. A situation in which it's your drones or your ship- that's what this is about. I think giving you that opportunity adds a bit of unpredictability to the game. Something to make combat a little more immersive, a little more dynamic, than just "Target, activate all modules, wait for the boom."
Have I ably shown to you that this is not as overpowered as you think it is? ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
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Garthran
Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders
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Posted - 2009.08.26 08:02:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Lana Torrin
Originally by: Garthran
Originally by: 3r5k1n3 This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.
Regards, The EVE Online Moderation team
Aww, didn't get in fast enough to see what this said. That makes me sad.
He was just trolling me. It had nothing to do with your idea.
FYI, I can see what you are getting at, I just think it will be abused by some players in specific ships (like me, in a domi or ishtar)
Above post was being written while you posted this, so chronologically it should come before >.>
I apologize if it comes across as condescending, I'm a bit tired. Please let me know what you think. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
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Rawbin Hood
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.08.26 09:20:00 -
[56]
self destruct should do damage.... then i'd like to see damage drones
◄Brutor► The Movement Because the human race can do better as a whole (despite these forums, they don't count) |
Garthran
Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders
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Posted - 2009.08.26 18:34:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Rawbin Hood self destruct should do damage.... then i'd like to see damage drones
/me eyerolls. Fine, when you self-destruct, a large smartbomb goes of, killing your pod, too. Great. Has nothing to do with my topic. Please don't try to hijack like that. ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
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Garthran
Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders
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Posted - 2009.08.27 23:36:00 -
[58]
/me patiently awaits Lana Torrin's response ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
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Gautan Virdamot
Nebula Rasa Vanguard
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Posted - 2009.08.28 01:57:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Garthran
Originally by: Gautan Virdamot Dedicated drones, something like those droids from Star Wars that grappled onto the hull and started tearing the ship apart, going down with their target?
I'd like that. Impossible to target for the enemy save for the smartbomb but them being disposable monogamous packages of doom they need to take less space in the hold or be of the small persuasion.
Unkillable damage over time attached to an enemy? Even less what I want than dedicated bomb-drones.
Not at all my idea. Do not want.
Hardly unkillable, smartbombs. You thought you'd be shooting these drones once on target? Possibly, with equal or greater damage to the ship they're attached to. Otherwise I see no need or niche for these drones, for all else we've got missiles.
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Garthran
Gallente CINDER INDUSTRIALS United Outworlders
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Posted - 2009.08.28 06:44:00 -
[60]
I'm sorry, but to me saying "Why do you want suicide drones when we have missiles?" is kind of like "Why do you want ammo for hybrid weapons? We have plenty of ammo for projectile weapons!"
Significantly different skillset, significantly different shipset, different ammunition planning.
Projectile ammo is useless (in combat; I could just see someone trolling "You can still sell it!") to a hybrid weapon user. Similarly, missiles are useless to most drone ships.
The only similarity is that they both run into things and explode. Which, by current logic, would equate motor vehicles in James Bond movies with bugs flying into your windshield on the highway.
Bust out of the box, people. Give me a valid arguement. I've already shown the limited nature of the damage dealt. I've already shown how difficult this would be to use as a primary attack. Why is it so unreasonable an idea? ------------------------------------------------ Suicide drones?
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