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Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.05.31 09:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem?
2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
|
Mr Care Bear
Unicorn Zero
0
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Posted - 2012.05.31 10:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
Not sure, I don't really PVP. |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
109
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Posted - 2012.05.31 10:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Because most of them want to change EvE Online into a Theme Park MMO. If you want instant gratification, go stimulate your genitals. EvE is Hard, deal with it. |
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
68
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Posted - 2012.05.31 10:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Here is some ones view on players who like to keep it simple. Horse's Mouth |
Kehro Urgus
Aliastra Gallente Federation
355
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Posted - 2012.05.31 10:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Because most of them want to change EvE Online into a Theme Park MMO. That's why the CSM is dominated by null sec alliances. I found a dead cat on the side of the road so I -átook it home and put some honey on it and cooked it and then I ate it. Is that bad? do do do dooo... GÖ¬ GÖ½
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Peter Raptor
Plutonian Army
194
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Posted - 2012.05.31 10:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Because gankers are scared to PVP with ships which have guns Evelopedia;-á
The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion -áGÇá-á-á |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
840
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Posted - 2012.05.31 10:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nobody hates hiseccers, but everybody loathes the whiny carebear forum poster who wants to ruin EVE.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
677
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Posted - 2012.05.31 10:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Because this is a PVP, and most of the current crop of highseccers think they should be safe.
This hate is new, it wasn't here until around Incarna(the expansion geared to pull in the wow type players who wouldn't play because they had no avatar), so I would expect it to pass.
Probably pass once those wow players who refuse to HTFU finally move back to themepark MMOs Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3948
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Posted - 2012.05.31 10:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
They ones that are mostly hated are not players, they're high sec dwellers, there is a fine differnece between a player and a dweller.
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buee
Aliastra Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2012.05.31 10:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Because EvE is and should always be a reflection of life, the only thing fair in it is death. |
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Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.05.31 10:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kehro Urgus wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Because most of them want to change EvE Online into a Theme Park MMO. That's why the CSM is dominated by null sec alliances.
CCP bills EVE as a game of risk, but what would be the problem with Hi-sec (not the rest of the game) being turned into a themepark? |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
247
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Posted - 2012.05.31 10:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Those who joined the game knowing that the premise was it being pvp centered and didn't wrap you in cotton wool are now fighting against the rising tide of entitled whiners who seem to believe that the game should change to benefit them and them alone.
They've drifted in from other games, probably lured by the shiny enticement of Walking in Stations, and now discover that the hand holding and cotton wool wrapping they enjoyed elsewhere isn't available in EVE. The players who appreciate EVE for what CCP made it are taking back the game.
The whiner's time has come, face the fact that the game isn't Hello Kitty, grow some balls and teeth or fall away like dead wood. If the Sims all became zombies it would be easy to escape them, just shove them in a room and make them answer the telephone. |
EFF ONEF1
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
28
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Posted - 2012.05.31 10:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
The whiners want to play the game their way with no interruption or outside factors unless they specifically go looking for it.
The people who "hate" them do not want them to play that way, they want them to play their way.
oversimplification
|
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
127
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Posted - 2012.05.31 10:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
"The whiny carebear that wants to destroy EVE" is the second biggest myth ever, right after Bigfoot. I've never seen one on these forums. What I do see, however, is a lot douchebaggy "PvPers" who wants to ruin EVE by idiotic ideas such as removal of local and High-sec areas.
The hate, in my eyes, is unwarranted and most often down right hypocritical. Gallente is what America believes itself to be.
Caldari is how America is in reality. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
314
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 10:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem?
2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
Sociopaths need someone to hate. And their brains are shortcircuited, so they themselves don't understand why they do what they do.
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RAP ACTION HERO
34
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Posted - 2012.05.31 10:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
because they whine |
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
103
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Posted - 2012.05.31 10:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
You assume all Hi-Sec players = carebear sperglords likr yourself. The hate is directed at the whiners that want to change the game we've loved for years. Also the overwhelming influx of these whiners is worrying.
Eve is the last stronghold of worthwhile on-line gaming. Quiet simply, what they want is certain death for eve. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
955
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 10:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
EFF ONEF1 wrote:The whiners want to play the game their way with no interruption or outside factors unless they specifically go looking for it.
The people who "hate" them do not want them to play that way, they want them to play their way.
oversimplification
Not necessarily "our" way ... but just to realise that "yes, seriously, by clicking 'UNDOCK' you consented to PvP". Along with that, the acceptance that anyone can blap you anywhere at any time for any reason, and it's 100% "fair" within the confines of the game rules (sure, it stings ... and it has the potential to set you back days or weeks ... but someone can do the same thing to them [might even be YOU one day]) |
Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 10:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ludi Burek wrote:You assume all Hi-Sec players = carebear sperglords likr yourself. The hate is directed at the whiners that want to change the game we've loved for years. Also the overwhelming influx of these whiners is worrying.
Eve is the last stronghold of worthwhile on-line gaming. Quiet simply, what they want is certain death for eve.
What do they want? and how will it kill EVE? |
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
103
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 10:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:Ludi Burek wrote:You assume all Hi-Sec players = carebear sperglords likr yourself. The hate is directed at the whiners that want to change the game we've loved for years. Also the overwhelming influx of these whiners is worrying.
Eve is the last stronghold of worthwhile on-line gaming. Quiet simply, what they want is certain death for eve. What do they want? and how will it kill EVE?
Hello, freshly created troll alt. They want exactly what you typed up in your troll post |
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Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
680
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 10:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
EFF ONEF1 wrote:The people who "hate" them do not want them to play that way, they want them to play their way. We don't want them to play 'our' way, we want them to quit whining about their own stupid mistakes.
I lost an orca in nullsec recently because I was running back and forth from the system I mine in to the refinery station, and kept it up long enough for one of the cloakyfags in local of one of the systems I was in to notice. Did I once complain about cloakyfags, lack of ability to tank an orca strongly enough to survive a single cruiser(cynabal iirc), or anything else? No, I laughed, learned to use the JB network even for an orca that will burn up all its fuel(also joined the JB fueling team since I burn alot of the fuel nowadays) and then had to explain to my CEO how I stupidly lost a 800 mil ship and totally screwed up our corp killboard.
If you die and learn from it, you won't get griefed, because you will make it to hard to kill you. If you just keep dying over and over, you just keep painting a bigger and bigger X on your back for people to aim at. We are not expecting a bigger commitment, or for people to abandon their overall playstyle. We are expecting people to stop being so bloody ******* ********, and take steps to protect themselves.
Those who refuse to adapt to the changing circumstances in eve are doomed to failure, and good riddance. Those who do adapt, well, even if we hate what you do, we will still respect you for learning and adapting to EVE. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
955
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 10:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:Ludi Burek wrote:You assume all Hi-Sec players = carebear sperglords likr yourself. The hate is directed at the whiners that want to change the game we've loved for years. Also the overwhelming influx of these whiners is worrying.
Eve is the last stronghold of worthwhile on-line gaming. Quiet simply, what they want is certain death for eve. What do they want? and how will it kill EVE?
What they want: 100% safe "on rails" experience, with optional PvP (see: WoW, SWTOR, etc as examples of this type of gameplay).
Why it will kill EVE: Because once you put things "on rails", you kill the sandbox. The sandbox is the main reason that I (and many other people) came to this game.
Sure, "sandbox" means you can play however you want ... and mining "in safety" can be done. You just have to realize that everyone else logged in can ALSO play however they want.
CCP, Tyrannis Expansion wrote:Your goals may align with some ... and with others, collide with the force of suns |
Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 10:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ludi Burek wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:Ludi Burek wrote:You assume all Hi-Sec players = carebear sperglords likr yourself. The hate is directed at the whiners that want to change the game we've loved for years. Also the overwhelming influx of these whiners is worrying.
Eve is the last stronghold of worthwhile on-line gaming. Quiet simply, what they want is certain death for eve. What do they want? and how will it kill EVE? Hello, freshly created troll alt. They want exactly what you typed up in your troll post
Okay. So why is that a problem?
I'm not a troll, just new. |
Ticarus Hellbrandt
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 10:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Eve is a pvp game, it doesnt do the economy any good having half the population sitting about running missions and never being blown up in years of playing. |
Kathen Darkmoore
Swallows And Amazons
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 10:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:"The whiny carebear that wants to destroy EVE" is the second biggest myth ever, right after Bigfoot. I've never seen one on these forums. What I do see, however, is a lot douchebaggy "PvPers" who wants to ruin EVE by idiotic ideas such as removal of local and High-sec areas.
The hate, in my eyes, is unwarranted and most often down right hypocritical.
^ This |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 10:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem?
2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
Don't generalise null sec mentality, but indeed some "all-day-nothing-to-do" nerds+a few no brains stated you are bad at this game if you're in high sec.
Nothing wrong, in every game you have this kind of mentality, just ignore them and do what you have to do. |
TigerXtrm
Cadre Assault Force Initiative Mercenaries
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 10:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
Because the PVPers somehow think they have the right to tell other people how to play a sandbox game. Notice that it's only PVPers bitching and that the carebears actually very rarely complain about anything (unless they got ganked in hi-sec).
More so I think the majority of these 'PVPers' that complain found out that they are worthless in any major battle and just want some easy targets in low-sec so they can at least kill something. But one does not simply kill a miner alone in hi-sec so they whine and ***** here :D.
As for the Goons trying to mess with hi-sec, it's just in their interest to kill as many Hulks as possible because they earn massive amounts of money for each one that gets replaced. It's business, nothing more. |
Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
253
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 10:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Because most of them want to change EvE Online into a Theme Park MMO.
Most?
How do you know? You want fries with that? |
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
104
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 10:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:Ludi Burek wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:Ludi Burek wrote:You assume all Hi-Sec players = carebear sperglords likr yourself. The hate is directed at the whiners that want to change the game we've loved for years. Also the overwhelming influx of these whiners is worrying.
Eve is the last stronghold of worthwhile on-line gaming. Quiet simply, what they want is certain death for eve. What do they want? and how will it kill EVE? Hello, freshly created troll alt. They want exactly what you typed up in your troll post Okay. So why is that a problem? I'm not a troll, just new.
You tell me first why it isn't. |
Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 10:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:Ludi Burek wrote:You assume all Hi-Sec players = carebear sperglords likr yourself. The hate is directed at the whiners that want to change the game we've loved for years. Also the overwhelming influx of these whiners is worrying.
Eve is the last stronghold of worthwhile on-line gaming. Quiet simply, what they want is certain death for eve. What do they want? and how will it kill EVE? What they want: 100% safe "on rails" experience, with optional PvP (see: WoW, SWTOR, etc as examples of this type of gameplay). Why it will kill EVE: Because once you put things "on rails", you kill the sandbox. The sandbox is the main reason that I (and many other people) came to this game. Sure, "sandbox" means you can play however you want ... and mining "in safety" can be done. You just have to realize that everyone else logged in can ALSO play however they want. CCP, Tyrannis Expansion wrote:Your goals may align with some ... and with others, collide with the force of suns
I take your point about putting the game "on rails", but if CCP could get a giant chunk of cash by allowing Hi-sec to go "themepark" would that be too much of an intrusion into the sandbox nature of the game? After all Hi-Sec is a very small part of the EVE universe. |
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Kimmi Chan
Black Rebel Rifter Club
27
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Posted - 2012.05.31 10:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem?
2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? There isn't a problem.
As a response to part 2 of your question look at these forums and count the number of high sec residents screaming bloody murder that they should be 100% safe in high sec, lobbying CCP for a 100% safe high sec, and making ludicrous claims about other players violating the EULA. Intelligence shouldn't be free. by Mors Sanctitatis |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
613
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
It's not hate. It's the school bully who steals your lunch money because he can and noone in authority will do anything about it. That is what is going on here. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Darth Kilth
Clan Exiled Legends
68
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
If I read this topic right the general hatred against anyone who admits they are from hi-sec on these forums is because of a vocal minorty that is also from hi-sec? That is pretty ******. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1676
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:02:00 -
[34] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem?
2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
It's not It's not It's not
The problem comes when they want to do those things while intervening in the market (selling their stuff) but without being able to have their activities interrupted. Then they whine that their activities are being interrupted.
The suggestion that people come out to Null comes out of an (at least partially-) honest impulse to show of the kind of fun we have.
But then they yelled at us for suggesting it, so we started shooting them. Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Skorpynekomimi
205
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:04:00 -
[35] - Quote
Because they're an easy target. Most don't know how to defend themselves, or even that they CAN. They wouldn't know pvp if it hit them in the ass. Or WHEN it hits them in the ass.
Now, I live in highsec. I mine, I run missions, I trade, I manufacture. I also operate in lowsec and nullsec occasionally, and would leap into a wormhole if I could get out again reliably. I spend most of my time in highsec because, frankly, it's an easy source of isk. However, I am not a carebear. I know the basics of pvp, and fitting. I tank my hulk. I tank my orca. I tank everything I fly that will take a tank and is worth bothering to tank. If I'm mining, I check dscan every so often, and watch local and my overview. I don't do anything totally afk. I may not be fully paying attention sometimes, but I'm not afk. I might be watching tv, or chatting on irc, or even making myself an omelette, but I keep an eye on things. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:05:00 -
[36] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:It's not hate. It's the school bully who steals your lunch money because he can and noone in authority will do anything about it. That is what is going on here.
And it's an encouraged behaviour by the game mechanics in high sec. But seems Icelandic dictionary can't make the difference in between grieffing/bullying already so, we have to deal wiz it.
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Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
282
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem?
2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
If people want to mine. Sure, go ahead. If people do trades in hisec. Sure, no problem, heck, i've even done it (and would probably still doing it) myself. No problem whatsoever for people who's doing missions. Go ahead.
The problem surfaces when people starts to whine on the forums, demanding that they should be able to do those things without any consequences whatsoever. Sure, people can go mine somewhere in hisec, but when people came and start shooting at them, can they get mad and butthurt over the loss? sure, but the instant they whine somewhere on the public forums, demanding that "this is my sandbox, i can do anything i want and you can't play with mine!" that; becomes a problem. "Eve isnGÇÖt some welcoming online utopia: itGÇÖs cut-throat, cruel, atavistic despite the futuristic setting. Give people a sandbox, and theyGÇÖll throw the sand in a rivalGÇÖs eyes before kicking them in the shins and destroying their sandcastle." -Keza MacDonald, IGN. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
957
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:08:00 -
[38] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:
I take your point about putting the game "on rails", but if CCP could get a giant chunk of cash by allowing Hi-sec to go "themepark" would that be too much of an intrusion into the sandbox nature of the game? After all Hi-Sec is a very small part of the EVE universe.
Yes. CCP would have to spend countless hours on more and more PvE content ... and the "sandbox" side would suffer for it.
If you want to see what EvE would be like with a "no PVP" zone, check out Sisi.
|
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
683
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
Darth Kilth wrote:If I read this topic right the general hatred against anyone who admits they are from hi-sec on these forums is because of a vocal minorty that is also from hi-sec? That is pretty ******. No, its just that if you are not part of that vocal minority who want things that will ruin the game, you are not someone we would define as a highseccer.
Some of my best friends live in highsec
Skorpynekomimi wrote: Because they're an easy target. Most don't know how to defend themselves, or even that they CAN. They wouldn't know pvp if it hit them in the ass. Or WHEN it hits them in the ass.
Now, I live in highsec. I mine, I run missions, I trade, I manufacture. I also operate in lowsec and nullsec occasionally, and would leap into a wormhole if I could get out again reliably. I spend most of my time in highsec because, frankly, it's an easy source of isk. However, I am not a carebear. I know the basics of pvp, and fitting. I tank my hulk. I tank my orca. I tank everything I fly that will take a tank and is worth bothering to tank. If I'm mining, I check dscan every so often, and watch local and my overview. I don't do anything totally afk. I may not be fully paying attention sometimes, but I'm not afk. I might be watching tv, or chatting on irc, or even making myself an omelette, but I keep an eye on things.
You are a carebear then, sorry. You are the GOOD kind of carebear tho, not the kind all the hate is aimed at. We want all the whiners to learn from people like you. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
March rabbit
Trojan Trolls Red Alliance
184
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Posted - 2012.05.31 11:10:00 -
[40] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Because most of them want to change EvE Online into a Theme Park MMO. uhm.... FULL SCALE PVP Theme Park MMO.... sounds nice isn't it? |
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
314
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? There isn't a problem.
As a response to part 2 of your question look at these forums and count the number of high sec residents screaming bloody murder that they should be 100% safe in high sec, lobbying CCP for a 100% safe high sec, and making ludicrous claims about other players violating the EULA. If mining and missioning in hi sec aren't problems to these sociopaths, then why the incessant call to arms from the "hardcore PVPer" community to attack and kill them? Why the constant belligerence and belittling against them? Why the unfounded and deliberate accusations that carebears are greedy and stupid? Why the constant whining and crying about moving missions and anything remotely fun to them into lo/null sec? Why the constant whining that carebears should be kicked out of NPC corps and hi sec altogether? |
Starrakatt
Z0MBIELAND Double Tap.
1
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Posted - 2012.05.31 11:15:00 -
[42] - Quote
There may be, too, the 'neighboring rivalry' factor that tends to creep up after a while (real life or otherwise) in a lot of communities at competition with each other, be it through the competitive media of a sport team, social class (PvPer vs PvEer) or plain economic class divide, amongst other things.
Maybe EvE is old enough to have reached such a threshold between 'social classes'. |
Cpt Roghie
11
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Posted - 2012.05.31 11:21:00 -
[43] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? There isn't a problem.
As a response to part 2 of your question look at these forums and count the number of high sec residents screaming bloody murder that they should be 100% safe in high sec, lobbying CCP for a 100% safe high sec, and making ludicrous claims about other players violating the EULA. If mining and missioning in hi sec aren't problems to these sociopaths, then why the incessant call to arms from the "hardcore PVPer" community to attack and kill them? Why the constant belligerence and belittling against them? Why the constant whining and crying about moving missions and anything remotely fun to them into lo sec?
As for attacking them, Goonswarm earns alot of money doing so. Wouldnt you do the same thing if you were put in that situation? Zzzzzzzz.
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Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
846
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
Kathen Darkmoore wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:"The whiny carebear that wants to destroy EVE" is the second biggest myth ever, right after Bigfoot. I've never seen one on these forums. What I do see, however, is a lot douchebaggy "PvPers" who wants to ruin EVE by idiotic ideas such as removal of local and High-sec areas.
The hate, in my eyes, is unwarranted and most often down right hypocritical. ^ This
Kathy dear, looks like you haven't been reading these forums much.
There aren't any "PVPers" in EVE, just players and whiners.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
370
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:23:00 -
[45] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Because most of them want to change EvE Online into a Theme Park MMO. False it is the griefers that want to turn eve into a arcade mmo , real pvpers are endangered species living in low sec and some null sec regions I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1256
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:25:00 -
[46] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? There isn't a problem.
As a response to part 2 of your question look at these forums and count the number of high sec residents screaming bloody murder that they should be 100% safe in high sec, lobbying CCP for a 100% safe high sec, and making ludicrous claims about other players violating the EULA. If mining and missioning in hi sec aren't problems to these sociopaths, then why the incessant call to arms from the "hardcore PVPer" community to attack and kill them? Why the constant belligerence and belittling against them? Why the unfounded and deliberate accusations that carebears are greedy and stupid? Why the constant whining and crying about moving missions and anything remotely fun to them into lo/null sec? Why the constant whining that carebears should be kicked out of NPC corps and hi sec altogether?
Going to give you the best answer I can on this. There is no secret conspiracy, there is no movement to push miners out of highsec so we can somehow gain an economic advantage. All of that is just garbage posted by people upset about the situation and powerless to impact it.
Why do we do it? Why do we kill hulk pilots in empire with cheap disposable ships?
It's fun! |
Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate Caldari State
114
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:25:00 -
[47] - Quote
I'm a PvPer who lives in lowsec, and I'm very glad we have so many people doing PVE in hisec. They make my ships cheap, they restock the market hubs where I can construct any ship I need in minutes, and they provide a market for all the items I get in lowsec. The more miners, mission runners, haulers, and manufacturers we have the better. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
314
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:26:00 -
[48] - Quote
Cpt Roghie wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? There isn't a problem.
As a response to part 2 of your question look at these forums and count the number of high sec residents screaming bloody murder that they should be 100% safe in high sec, lobbying CCP for a 100% safe high sec, and making ludicrous claims about other players violating the EULA. If mining and missioning in hi sec aren't problems to these sociopaths, then why the incessant call to arms from the "hardcore PVPer" community to attack and kill them? Why the constant belligerence and belittling against them? Why the constant whining and crying about moving missions and anything remotely fun to them into lo sec? As for attacking them, Goonswarm earns alot of money doing so. Wouldnt you do the same thing if you were put in that situation? I can't really say it's for money, as I don't know if profit is being made. But what I can say with certainty is that Goonswarm tends to loath carebears by their own admittance. The Mittani himself has recently gone about a rant on how carebears feel "self-entitled" and how it's his job to rid Eve of this vermin; funny that coming from him.
|
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
371
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:27:00 -
[49] - Quote
Roime wrote:Nobody hates hiseccers, but everybody loathes the whiny carebear forum poster who wants to ruin EVE.
False again it is the whiny griefers that loathes the idea that they have to share the safety oh highsec with other people who are actually enjoying this game I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Elenora Lash
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:29:00 -
[50] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem?
2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
There is no problem at all. See it as the usual forum whining here from those who are never satisfied with what they have or don't like changes. Those poeple believe they have to post the same overused arguments ten times a day in different threads, otherwise they are feared that their opinion is underrepresented in the forums and this could lead to changes from CCP which "ruins the game" for them. This counts for both sides.
I think CCP is handling the situation very balanced though neither of the sides does see it like this. |
|
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
371
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:30:00 -
[51] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:Ludi Burek wrote:You assume all Hi-Sec players = carebear sperglords likr yourself. The hate is directed at the whiners that want to change the game we've loved for years. Also the overwhelming influx of these whiners is worrying.
Eve is the last stronghold of worthwhile on-line gaming. Quiet simply, what they want is certain death for eve. What do they want? and how will it kill EVE? What they want: 100% safe "on rails" experience, with optional PvP (see: WoW, SWTOR, etc as examples of this type of gameplay). Why it will kill EVE: Because once you put things "on rails", you kill the sandbox. The sandbox is the main reason that I (and many other people) came to this game. Sure, "sandbox" means you can play however you want ... and mining "in safety" can be done. You just have to realize that everyone else logged in can ALSO play however they want. CCP, Tyrannis Expansion wrote:Your goals may align with some ... and with others, collide with the force of suns Another false statement nobody wants a100% safe region it goes against everything eve stands for, only the new players and the griefers want this I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
454
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:30:00 -
[52] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:This hate is new, it wasn't here until around Incarna This has been going on since Feb 2008 that I know of (when I started the game).
New guys (without a lot of experience or assets) visit the forums and see all the threads and the answers people are given... and take offense.
Doesn't matter - it'll stay the same
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Cpt Roghie
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:32:00 -
[53] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Cpt Roghie wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? There isn't a problem.
As a response to part 2 of your question look at these forums and count the number of high sec residents screaming bloody murder that they should be 100% safe in high sec, lobbying CCP for a 100% safe high sec, and making ludicrous claims about other players violating the EULA. If mining and missioning in hi sec aren't problems to these sociopaths, then why the incessant call to arms from the "hardcore PVPer" community to attack and kill them? Why the constant belligerence and belittling against them? Why the constant whining and crying about moving missions and anything remotely fun to them into lo sec? As for attacking them, Goonswarm earns alot of money doing so. Wouldnt you do the same thing if you were put in that situation? I can't really say it's for money, as I don't know if profit is being made. But what I can say with certainty is that Goonswarm tends to loath carebears by their own admittance. The Mittani himself has recently gone about a rant on how carebears feel "self-entitled" and how it's his job to rid Eve of this vermin; funny that coming from him.
If I remember correctly, 70% of a hulk is made of Technitum. Guess who controlls the most of that? Yep. Its profitable for them, even though they love blowing hulks up for ***** n giggles anyways. Zzzzzzzz.
|
Kimmi Chan
Black Rebel Rifter Club
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:32:00 -
[54] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? There isn't a problem.
As a response to part 2 of your question look at these forums and count the number of high sec residents screaming bloody murder that they should be 100% safe in high sec, lobbying CCP for a 100% safe high sec, and making ludicrous claims about other players violating the EULA. If mining and missioning in hi sec aren't problems to these sociopaths, then why the incessant call to arms from the "hardcore PVPer" community to attack and kill them? Why the constant belligerence and belittling against them? Why the constant whining and crying about moving missions and anything remotely fun to them into lo sec?
Those are all fair questions. The call to arms that I believe your are referring to is here.
If you want to mine Scordite in high sec feel free and encouraged to do so. It's your game. It's a sandbox. Play it the way you want. But PVP in this game is not optional.
If you want to run missions in a pimp fit CNR by all means there are many, many agents in high sec to give you those missions. It's your game. It's a sandbox. Play it the way you want. But PVP in this game is not optional.
As far as why to encourage them to move to lower sec space. Two reasons:
1. Because PVP and only PVP drives the market. PVP means that players are losing ships. Players have to buy new ships. If no one is buying ships then no one needs to build ships. Furthermore, if no one is building ships no one is buying minerals. No demand for minerals - no demand for miners.
2. PVP Enthusiasts (pirates, thugs, insert expletive of the month here) need targets. People in high sec used to come through low sec and you'd occasionally get blown up at a gate camp. No one from hi sec comes to low sec anymore because it's not safe (I know, the horror!). Since the targets won't go to low sec, the PVP Enthusiasts will come to high sec. Because that's where the targets are.
The "hate" as you describe it is not directed at carebears -it is directed at the thundering mantra of "I should be 100% in a PVP Internet Spaceship game and CCP needs to fix this!!"
PVP is not optional in Eve. If you get blown up that is the game working as intended. Don't come here and complain because you pay for a game that you don't like.
Intelligence shouldn't be free. by Mors Sanctitatis |
Sarah Schneider
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
282
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:33:00 -
[55] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? There isn't a problem.
As a response to part 2 of your question look at these forums and count the number of high sec residents screaming bloody murder that they should be 100% safe in high sec, lobbying CCP for a 100% safe high sec, and making ludicrous claims about other players violating the EULA. If mining and missioning in hi sec aren't problems to these sociopaths, then why the incessant call to arms from the "hardcore PVPer" community to attack and kill them? Why the constant belligerence and belittling against them? Why the unfounded and deliberate accusations that carebears are greedy and stupid? Why the constant whining and crying about moving missions and anything remotely fun to them into lo/null sec? Why the constant whining that carebears should be kicked out of NPC corps and hi sec altogether? Going to give you the best answer I can on this. There is no secret conspiracy, there is no movement to push miners out of highsec so we can somehow gain an economic advantage. All of that is just garbage posted by people upset about the situation and powerless to impact it. Why do we do it? Why do we kill hulk pilots in empire with cheap disposable ships? It's fun! ^This. People are sooo over analyzing things that some of the 'conspiracy theories' doesn't even make sense. "Eve isnGÇÖt some welcoming online utopia: itGÇÖs cut-throat, cruel, atavistic despite the futuristic setting. Give people a sandbox, and theyGÇÖll throw the sand in a rivalGÇÖs eyes before kicking them in the shins and destroying their sandcastle." -Keza MacDonald, IGN. |
Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote:This hate is new, it wasn't here until around Incarna This has been going on since Feb 2008 that I know of (when I started the game).
You can push it back even further.
There have always been people who need to feel special and scream that someone else is a threat to their specialness.
It's the projection that cracks me up. |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
454
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:36:00 -
[57] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:CCP bills EVE as a game of risk, but what would be the problem with Hi-sec (not the rest of the game) being turned into a themepark? Because the markets, manufacturing and everything are tied together......
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
372
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? There isn't a problem.
As a response to part 2 of your question look at these forums and count the number of high sec residents screaming bloody murder that they should be 100% safe in high sec, lobbying CCP for a 100% safe high sec, and making ludicrous claims about other players violating the EULA. If mining and missioning in hi sec aren't problems to these sociopaths, then why the incessant call to arms from the "hardcore PVPer" community to attack and kill them? Why the constant belligerence and belittling against them? Why the unfounded and deliberate accusations that carebears are greedy and stupid? Why the constant whining and crying about moving missions and anything remotely fun to them into lo/null sec? Why the constant whining that carebears should be kicked out of NPC corps and hi sec altogether? Going to give you the best answer I can on this. There is no secret conspiracy, there is no movement to push miners out of highsec so we can somehow gain an economic advantage. All of that is just garbage posted by people upset about the situation and powerless to impact it. Why do we do it? Why do we kill hulk pilots in empire with cheap disposable ships? It's fun! Thats a very thin line between normal gameplay and outright griefing , keep up with those comments and you find alot of your people and fans on the wrongside of the banhammer Goons Delenda Est
I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
683
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:37:00 -
[59] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote:This hate is new, it wasn't here until around Incarna This has been going on since Feb 2008 that I know of (when I started the game). New guys (without a lot of experience or assets) visit the forums and see all the threads and the answers people are given... and take offense. Doesn't matter - it'll stay the same Not trying to claim there was no hate on the forums all these years, there has been, but the past year since Incarna it has increased to these insane levels we have now, and I am of the opinion that Incarna itself is the main reason. Single most carebear oriented expansion ever, purely intended to pull the themepark MMO crowd to EVE.
ofc, I tend to think incarna is the root of most of whats wrong with EVE today Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
53
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:39:00 -
[60] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:Goons Delenda Est
/props |
|
Velicitia
Open Designs
957
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:45:00 -
[61] - Quote
pussnheels wrote: Another false statement nobody wants a100% safe region it goes against everything eve stands for, only the new players and the griefers want this
so if the new players and greifers want a 100% safe area... new players and griefers are nobody?
Or am I missing something key here?
|
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
136
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:45:00 -
[62] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote: 2. PVP Enthusiasts (pirates, thugs, insert expletive of the month here) need targets. People in high sec used to come through low sec and you'd occasionally get blown up at a gate camp. No one from hi sec comes to low sec anymore because it's not safe (I know, the horror!). Since the targets won't go to low sec, the PVP Enthusiasts will come to high sec. Because that's where the targets are.
This might sound like a groundbreaking concept right here, but stay with me. What if - what if - those low/null-sec "PvP enthusiasts" started to grow balls and started preying on each other instead of looking for easy targets that can't fight back from High-sec.
Unthinkable, I know. But just toss it around for a minute in your head.
Gallente is what America believes itself to be.
Caldari is how America is in reality. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
957
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:47:00 -
[63] - Quote
I think they do ... but then things become "Oh, hey Bob ... we killed Steve again" ... it gets stale ... |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
136
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:49:00 -
[64] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:I think they do ... but then things become "Oh, hey Bob ... we killed Steve again" ... it gets stale ...
I'm fairly certain it is more in the lines of "Hell, that guy over there knows his PvP. I might actually have to risk my ship to engage him!"
Spineless and hypocritical, that's what they are, most of them. Gallente is what America believes itself to be.
Caldari is how America is in reality. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
315
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:51:00 -
[65] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote: 2. PVP Enthusiasts (pirates, thugs, insert expletive of the month here) need targets. People in high sec used to come through low sec and you'd occasionally get blown up at a gate camp. No one from hi sec comes to low sec anymore because it's not safe (I know, the horror!). Since the targets won't go to low sec, the PVP Enthusiasts will come to high sec. Because that's where the targets are.
This might sound like a groundbreaking concept right here, but stay with me. What if - what if - those low/null-sec "PvP enthusiasts" started to grow balls and started preying on each other instead of looking for easy targets that can't fight back from High-sec. Unthinkable, I know. But just toss it around for a minute in your head. But then their PVP safety rails would be removed and that would be unacceptable. Pay attention. We only want carebear safety rails to be removed.
|
Kimmi Chan
Black Rebel Rifter Club
32
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:52:00 -
[66] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote: 2. PVP Enthusiasts (pirates, thugs, insert expletive of the month here) need targets. People in high sec used to come through low sec and you'd occasionally get blown up at a gate camp. No one from hi sec comes to low sec anymore because it's not safe (I know, the horror!). Since the targets won't go to low sec, the PVP Enthusiasts will come to high sec. Because that's where the targets are.
This might sound like a groundbreaking concept right here, but stay with me. What if - what if - those low/null-sec "PvP enthusiasts" started to grow balls and started preying on each other instead of looking for easy targets that can't fight back from High-sec. Unthinkable, I know. But just toss it around for a minute in your head.
We do. Hell there are corps down there that do nothing but shoot each other all day but they don't profit from that. You know who does profit from that? High sec miners. The same ones who come to these forums and complain day in and day out about wanting to be 100% safe.
We sit down here and have PVP duels, learn from our errors, and get better at the game. High sec miners get blown up, learn nothing, and seek to change the mechanics of the game in a concerted effort to stack the deck in their favor.
Here is another ground-breaking concept - PVP is not optional in Eve and this is indisputable. Stop coming to the forum and disputing it.
Off to work. Have a great day! Intelligence shouldn't be free. by Mors Sanctitatis |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
847
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:52:00 -
[67] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:Roime wrote:Nobody hates hiseccers, but everybody loathes the whiny carebear forum poster who wants to ruin EVE.
False again it is the whiny griefers that loathes the idea that they have to share the safety oh highsec with other people who are actually enjoying this game
Sorry, but I see no difference between a hiseccer and a hiseccer, regardless of what they do there. 99 times out of 100 when a hiseccer posts here, it's a ganker or carebear whining about something.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
136
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:52:00 -
[68] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote: 2. PVP Enthusiasts (pirates, thugs, insert expletive of the month here) need targets. People in high sec used to come through low sec and you'd occasionally get blown up at a gate camp. No one from hi sec comes to low sec anymore because it's not safe (I know, the horror!). Since the targets won't go to low sec, the PVP Enthusiasts will come to high sec. Because that's where the targets are.
This might sound like a groundbreaking concept right here, but stay with me. What if - what if - those low/null-sec "PvP enthusiasts" started to grow balls and started preying on each other instead of looking for easy targets that can't fight back from High-sec. Unthinkable, I know. But just toss it around for a minute in your head. But then their PVP safety rails would be removed and that would be unacceptable. Pay attention. We only want carebear safety rails to be removed.
This guy here. This guy gets it. Gallente is what America believes itself to be.
Caldari is how America is in reality. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1681
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:54:00 -
[69] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Velicitia wrote:I think they do ... but then things become "Oh, hey Bob ... we killed Steve again" ... it gets stale ... I'm fairly certain it is more in the lines of "Hell, that guy over there knows his PvP. I might actually have to risk my ship to engage him!"
That's called fun.
But that kind of fun takes more effort to make happen than suicide ganking, so v0v. Besides that, now that OTEC is humming along, there's not much incentive to fight big battles. Once Tech's nerfed and alliances start scrambling for the next big income source, we won't have much time for ganking and will have to bid you adieu Single-Shard, Player Driven-áSandbox.
5 words. That's what makes it special. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
683
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:54:00 -
[70] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:easy targets that can't fight back from High-sec. Why can't they fight back? Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
|
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
151
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:56:00 -
[71] - Quote
Roime wrote:Nobody hates hiseccers, but everybody loathes the whiny carebear forum poster who wants to ruin EVE.
Nobody hates PvPers, but everybody loathes the whiny ganktard forum poster who wants to ruin EVE. |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
250
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:58:00 -
[72] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Velicitia wrote:I think they do ... but then things become "Oh, hey Bob ... we killed Steve again" ... it gets stale ... I'm fairly certain it is more in the lines of "Hell, that guy over there knows his PvP. I might actually have to risk my ship to engage him!" Spineless and hypocritical, that's what they are, most of them.
Much like those who think they shouldn't be affected by anyone else in the game, if they actually got some balls and took steps to protect themselves they wouldn't be such easy target. But then that takes effort, so not really an option for the entitlement crowd is it. If the Sims all became zombies it would be easy to escape them, just shove them in a room and make them answer the telephone. |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
250
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 11:59:00 -
[73] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote: 2. PVP Enthusiasts (pirates, thugs, insert expletive of the month here) need targets. People in high sec used to come through low sec and you'd occasionally get blown up at a gate camp. No one from hi sec comes to low sec anymore because it's not safe (I know, the horror!). Since the targets won't go to low sec, the PVP Enthusiasts will come to high sec. Because that's where the targets are.
This might sound like a groundbreaking concept right here, but stay with me. What if - what if - those low/null-sec "PvP enthusiasts" started to grow balls and started preying on each other instead of looking for easy targets that can't fight back from High-sec. Unthinkable, I know. But just toss it around for a minute in your head. But then their PVP safety rails would be removed and that would be unacceptable. Pay attention. We only want carebear safety rails to be removed. This guy here. This guy gets it.
Only in your opinion, which means he doesn't get it at all. If the Sims all became zombies it would be easy to escape them, just shove them in a room and make them answer the telephone. |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
139
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:01:00 -
[74] - Quote
Virgil Travis wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:Velicitia wrote:I think they do ... but then things become "Oh, hey Bob ... we killed Steve again" ... it gets stale ... I'm fairly certain it is more in the lines of "Hell, that guy over there knows his PvP. I might actually have to risk my ship to engage him!" Spineless and hypocritical, that's what they are, most of them. Much like those who think they shouldn't be affected by anyone else in the game, if they actually got some balls and took steps to protect themselves they wouldn't be such easy target. But then that takes effort, so not really an option for the entitlement crowd is it.
There is no bigger entitlement crowd than the so-called PvP Enthusiast, and you know it. Gallente is what America believes itself to be.
Caldari is how America is in reality. |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
264
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:01:00 -
[75] - Quote
I don't think you should put a label on someone because of their geographic location.
If CCP want to 'fix' this problem, then I have a few suggestions:
1) Start all new players in 0.0 - let them 'fight' their way to 0.5 and higher - if they succeed, then they get their first month for free, and become immune to forum whiners, as they have 'earnt' their right to live in 0.5 and higher. 2) Do a /TR [player name] [solar system] on all 'alt' characters of alliance members to 0.0 - this will elliminate concerns about duplicity. 3) make all gates to 0.0 a one-way thing, as Concord will automatically assume you are not interested in living under any protection. 4) nullify all weapons in 0.5 and higher, except for war declarations and PvE.
only problem is: no one has any balls at CCP/CSM to put this through.
Maybe someone should call TomB...
AK GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥ Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
847
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:04:00 -
[76] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote: 2. PVP Enthusiasts (pirates, thugs, insert expletive of the month here) need targets. People in high sec used to come through low sec and you'd occasionally get blown up at a gate camp. No one from hi sec comes to low sec anymore because it's not safe (I know, the horror!). Since the targets won't go to low sec, the PVP Enthusiasts will come to high sec. Because that's where the targets are.
This might sound like a groundbreaking concept right here, but stay with me. What if - what if - those low/null-sec "PvP enthusiasts" started to grow balls and started preying on each other instead of looking for easy targets that can't fight back from High-sec. Unthinkable, I know. But just toss it around for a minute in your head. But then their PVP safety rails would be removed and that would be unacceptable. Pay attention. We only want carebear safety rails to be removed.
This is total clueless bullshit. Sure, who wouldn't pop a random guy if the opportunity came, but rest assured that all these people that you call PVPers (I call them EVE players to separate them from hiseccers) live in whs, null and low and very much prefer to fight each others rather than defenseless failures.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
847
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:05:00 -
[77] - Quote
Ten Bulls wrote:Roime wrote:Nobody hates hiseccers, but everybody loathes the whiny carebear forum poster who wants to ruin EVE.
Nobody hates PvPers, but everybody loathes the whiny ganktard forum poster who wants to ruin EVE.
+1 Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
140
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:05:00 -
[78] - Quote
Roime wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote: 2. PVP Enthusiasts (pirates, thugs, insert expletive of the month here) need targets. People in high sec used to come through low sec and you'd occasionally get blown up at a gate camp. No one from hi sec comes to low sec anymore because it's not safe (I know, the horror!). Since the targets won't go to low sec, the PVP Enthusiasts will come to high sec. Because that's where the targets are.
This might sound like a groundbreaking concept right here, but stay with me. What if - what if - those low/null-sec "PvP enthusiasts" started to grow balls and started preying on each other instead of looking for easy targets that can't fight back from High-sec. Unthinkable, I know. But just toss it around for a minute in your head. But then their PVP safety rails would be removed and that would be unacceptable. Pay attention. We only want carebear safety rails to be removed. This is total clueless bullshit. Sure, who wouldn't pop a random guy if the opportunity came, but rest assured that all these people that you call PVPers (I call them EVE players to separate them from hiseccers) live in whs, null and low and very much prefer to fight each others rather than defenseless failures.
Lots of anger surfacing there mate.
Hit a nerve, did he??
Gallente is what America believes itself to be.
Caldari is how America is in reality. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
684
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:07:00 -
[79] - Quote
I still want to know why its impossible for miners to defend themselves...... Even if you can't dodge a gank, there are MANY measures you can take.
Here is a good one, mine in a lowsec pocket so you can freely shoot first to defend yourself, but pick one with a single gate, which should lead only to highsec.
Population is low enough to keep an eye on local, you can shoot first so you can set traps, and odds are good anyone you see just uses the system as a staging point for capitals they use elsewhere anyway. Safest lowsec systems I have found have all turned out to be capital staging points for various alliances. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Kougy
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:12:00 -
[80] - Quote
I dont know why people hate us so much, I just want to mine in peace darnit. |
|
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
848
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:12:00 -
[81] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Roime wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote: 2. PVP Enthusiasts (pirates, thugs, insert expletive of the month here) need targets. People in high sec used to come through low sec and you'd occasionally get blown up at a gate camp. No one from hi sec comes to low sec anymore because it's not safe (I know, the horror!). Since the targets won't go to low sec, the PVP Enthusiasts will come to high sec. Because that's where the targets are.
This might sound like a groundbreaking concept right here, but stay with me. What if - what if - those low/null-sec "PvP enthusiasts" started to grow balls and started preying on each other instead of looking for easy targets that can't fight back from High-sec. Unthinkable, I know. But just toss it around for a minute in your head. But then their PVP safety rails would be removed and that would be unacceptable. Pay attention. We only want carebear safety rails to be removed. This is total clueless bullshit. Sure, who wouldn't pop a random guy if the opportunity came, but rest assured that all these people that you call PVPers (I call them EVE players to separate them from hiseccers) live in whs, null and low and very much prefer to fight each others rather than defenseless failures. Lots of anger surfacing there mate. Hit a nerve, did he??
wut? "This is total clueless bullshit." is anger to you? The posts are total clueless bullshit, no way around it.
Did you know that normal people who don't live in hisec rarely come there except when they need something from the hubs? And that the suicide ganker/wardeccer/trade hub can ***** gang is just another breed of the hisec bear? They don't leave the safety of hisec either.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Snot Shot
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage
266
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:13:00 -
[82] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem?
2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
At this point a majority of 0.0 Alliances have blued, NIP'ed, or NAP'ed each other so there is very little to do out there. To keep the Blue lists, NIP's, and NAP's going you need to supply the sheep something large enough to keep them occupied or they will start to fight with each other.
The CFC "Coalition For Cowards" has 30,000 pilots whom are infatuated with The Martini and would do anything he commands them to do, even something like paying $15/month to wage a "Forever War" against high sec miners. As long as he can keep them convinced that it's "the right thing to do" then he doesnGÇÖt need to bother loging in or thinking about what to do with them every day... .
GÇ£God grant me the serenity to accept the things I canGÇÖt shoot, the courage to shoot the things I can, and the wisdom to GTFO!!GÇ¥GÇô Snot Shot - 2012.....Yeah I'm a killin machine..... http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=50753
|
Cpt Roghie
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:17:00 -
[83] - Quote
Kougy wrote:I dont know why people hate us so much, I just want to mine in peace darnit.
No one hates you. It's just darn profitable to murder you. Zzzzzzzz.
|
Gealbhan
Used Shuttle Sales Representative
158
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:18:00 -
[84] - Quote
Low Sec Vs High Sec in its most basic component is just a class battle thing, nothing more. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
684
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:18:00 -
[85] - Quote
OMG, Snot Shot posted outside of COAD?
EVE truly is dying. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
55
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:27:00 -
[86] - Quote
Snot Shot wrote: At this point a majority of 0.0 Alliances have blued, NIP'ed, or NAP'ed each other so there is very little to do out there. To keep the Blue lists, NIP's, and NAP's going you need to supply the sheep something large enough to keep them occupied or they will start to fight with each other.
And they will start fighting one another, but in a controlled way and the worry about having something to do is very real. Someone posted a state of the alliance chat here a while ago that addressed that very issue as the primary concern. Most previous powerblocks have essentially died of boredom. The conundrum is that the CFC is untenable except as a whole, but as a whole it's dull as hell. "We won EVE" turns out not to be such an interesting outcome.
|
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:40:00 -
[87] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote: As a response to part 2 of your question look at these forums and count the number of high sec residents screaming bloody murder that they should be 100% safe in high sec, lobbying CCP for a 100% safe high sec, and making ludicrous claims about other players violating the EULA.
I've only seen a handful of threads asking for buffs to barges, or changes to reduce ganking...
The other 42,523,526 threads are people complaining about highsec "carebares" and how they want to ruin eve.
The really stupid suggestions about highsec are usually from trolls trying to keep some sort of "war against carebears" alive. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
73
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:42:00 -
[88] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:OMG, Snot Shot posted outside of COAD?
EVE truly is dying.
Indeed |
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:43:00 -
[89] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote: If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem?
If a player is happy training his suicide ganking alt to say hello, in his own way, to a fellow miner - why is that a problem?
It's not, right?
However, even during hulkageddon I've seen dozen miners sitting happily in their exhumers, aligned to some random empty space, not caring for a thrasher targeting them. I'm no pirate nor ganker in hart but this IS the problem and something to be dealt with. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
270
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:44:00 -
[90] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Because most of them want to change EvE Online into a Theme Park MMO.
er no
Tal
|
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7532
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:48:00 -
[91] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Sociopaths need someone to hate. And their brains are shortcircuited, so they themselves don't understand why they do what they do. Well, that certainly explains why miners spew so much hate over the goons.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:49:00 -
[92] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:CCP bills EVE as a game of risk, but what would be the problem with Hi-sec (not the rest of the game) being turned into a themepark? Because the markets, manufacturing and everything are tied together...... Edit to add: Anything that affected low/null would have to be removed from hi-sec altogether. Why? Because there would be no cost to do anything in hi-sec.
Couldn't the hours of grinding that is associated with a hi-sec play style be the cost? |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
272
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:50:00 -
[93] - Quote
EFF ONEF1 wrote:The whiners want to play the game their way with no interruption or outside factors unless they specifically go looking for it.
The people who "hate" them do not want them to play that way, they want them to play their way.
oversimplification
Sorry most of the whining I see in the forums are from nul sec and low sec pilots whinging that they don't have enough targets in low sec and nerf hi sec to crap to force pilots into their areas.
Tal
|
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
250
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:51:00 -
[94] - Quote
Kougy wrote:I dont know why people hate us so much, I just want to mine in peace darnit.
That's fine, but it may involve a bit of effort to either find a system off the beaten track, away from the trade hubs and routes to avoid attracting much attention or be prepared to set up measures to deter gankers. Just because you wan't to mine in peace doesn't mean that everybody else should be forced to leave you alone. You have to work for it and use a little bit of thought. If the Sims all became zombies it would be easy to escape them, just shove them in a room and make them answer the telephone. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
272
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:53:00 -
[95] - Quote
Roime wrote:Nobody hates hiseccers, but everybody loathes the whiny carebear forum poster who wants to ruin EVE.
As apposed to the whiney null/low/hisec barge gankers that want to do the same
|
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
250
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 12:55:00 -
[96] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Sociopaths need someone to hate. And their brains are shortcircuited, so they themselves don't understand why they do what they do.
As soon as someone starts aiming the word sociopath at anyone who doesn't play the game their way I just disregard their post as a whine, if you consider anyone who enjoys the pvp aspects of the game as a sociopath, psychopath or whatever bullshit buzzword you hear someone else spewing on the forums, you've failed to separate the game from real life and you're taking it way too seriously. You are the weakest link, goodbye. If the Sims all became zombies it would be easy to escape them, just shove them in a room and make them answer the telephone. |
Calydarix Blackmoor
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:02:00 -
[97] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:Kehro Urgus wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Because most of them want to change EvE Online into a Theme Park MMO. That's why the CSM is dominated by null sec alliances. CCP bills EVE as a game of risk, but what would be the problem with Hi-sec (not the rest of the game) being turned into a themepark?
Because it wouldn't be EVE online anymore ?
The mission where you get your very first ship, the agent even tells you , "This is a LIVE environment, get to your ship quickly" part of the whole fun and mystery is never knowing what is coming next ... the content is driven by player action.
Why would you play in a sandbox, just to want a "theme-park" in a protective bubble inside of said sandbox ?
Why not just save yourself the aggravation and play a theme-park based space game, There are a few that fit that bill out there right now, like STO.
~C |
TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression Hedonistic Imperative
170
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:08:00 -
[98] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem?
2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
From my point of view, all I hear from the "high sec bears" is crys for changes that basically turn eve into a single player pve driven theme park game.
which isn't what eve is
if you loved soccer and I turned up and then started crying for changes that'd make it based under water and involve building a sea lab and then launching an assault on the other team, you'd probably have issues with that. |
Hestia Mar
Calmaretto
8
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:10:00 -
[99] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:EFF ONEF1 wrote:The whiners want to play the game their way with no interruption or outside factors unless they specifically go looking for it.
The people who "hate" them do not want them to play that way, they want them to play their way.
oversimplification
Not necessarily "our" way ... but just to realise that "yes, seriously, by clicking 'UNDOCK' you consented to PvP". Along with that, the acceptance that anyone can blap you anywhere at any time for any reason, and it's 100% "fair" within the confines of the game rules (sure, it stings ... and it has the potential to set you back days or weeks ... but someone can do the same thing to them [might even be YOU one day])
Although a carebear, I don't want to see any major changes to gameplay - the way it is, is the way it is.
However this notion about 'undocking means you consent to pvp' is just total bollocks...if , when undocking, a window opens and gives a warning, such as you get when jumping into lo-sec, that you may be attacked at any time, and you need to click 'ok' to undock, then yes I would accept that undock does mean consent. But that's not what happens!
Your analogy means that every time I leave my house, I'm consenting to being murdered on my way to work, and (let me check here...), er, no, I don't consent to that.
I say again, I don't want/expect any changes...I know I can be ganked at any time but I do not consent to it, I just accept it as part of the game. |
Pheusia
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
62
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:11:00 -
[100] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Cpt Roghie wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? It isn't a problem If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? There isn't a problem.
As a response to part 2 of your question look at these forums and count the number of high sec residents screaming bloody murder that they should be 100% safe in high sec, lobbying CCP for a 100% safe high sec, and making ludicrous claims about other players violating the EULA. If mining and missioning in hi sec aren't problems to these sociopaths, then why the incessant call to arms from the "hardcore PVPer" community to attack and kill them? Why the constant belligerence and belittling against them? Why the constant whining and crying about moving missions and anything remotely fun to them into lo sec? As for attacking them, Goonswarm earns alot of money doing so. Wouldnt you do the same thing if you were put in that situation? I can't really say it's for money, as I don't know if profit is being made. But what I can say with certainty is that Goonswarm tends to loath carebears by their own admittance. The Mittani himself has recently gone about a rant on how carebears feel "self-entitled" and how it's his job to rid Eve of this vermin; funny that coming from him.
Goons pay 100M per 10 hulks ganked. 10 hulks contain about 2 billion ISK worth of Technetium, of which the CFC control something like 35 or 40% of the total supply.
Paying 100M in "marketing" spend for 800M in extra sales is on the high end but easily within "real world" parameters of business, especially for products with a very high gross margin. |
|
Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
55
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:14:00 -
[101] - Quote
Calydarix Blackmoor wrote: Why would you play in a sandbox, just to want a "theme-park" in a protective bubble inside of said sandbox ?
That's pretty much what alliances and "napfests" attempt to create: a protective bubble.
The disagreement is about who sets the terms. |
Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:14:00 -
[102] - Quote
Calydarix Blackmoor wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:Kehro Urgus wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Because most of them want to change EvE Online into a Theme Park MMO. That's why the CSM is dominated by null sec alliances. CCP bills EVE as a game of risk, but what would be the problem with Hi-sec (not the rest of the game) being turned into a themepark? Because it wouldn't be EVE online anymore ? The mission where you get your very first ship, the agent even tells you , "This is a LIVE environment, get to your ship quickly" part of the whole fun and mystery is never knowing what is coming next ... the content is driven by player action. Why would you play in a sandbox, just to want a "theme-park" in a protective bubble inside of said sandbox ? Why not just save yourself the aggravation and play a theme-park based space game, There are a few that fit that bill out there right now, like STO. ~C
It would still be EVE. The greatness of the game is that it can accomodate a multiplicity of play styles.
In theory a hi-sec bubble of theme park could accommodate those most hated of players from WOW, SWTOR etc. This would bump up CCP's resources. It would also mean more players would be able to find their feet before joining the "real" EVE.
|
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
251
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:14:00 -
[103] - Quote
Hestia Mar wrote: However this notion about 'undocking means you consent to pvp' is just total bollocks...if , when undocking, a window opens and gives a warning, such as you get when jumping into lo-sec, that you may be attacked at any time, and you need to click 'ok' to undock, then yes I would accept that undock does mean consent. But that's not what happens!
When you signed up for the game and downloaded the client, that was your warning message. It is not bollocks, If the Sims all became zombies it would be easy to escape them, just shove them in a room and make them answer the telephone. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
74
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:15:00 -
[104] - Quote
Pheusia wrote:Goons pay 100M per 10 hulks ganked. 10 hulks contain about 2 billion ISK worth of Technetium, of which the CFC control something like 35 or 40% of the total supply.
Paying 100M in "marketing" spend for 800M in extra sales is on the high end but easily within "real world" parameters of business, especially for products with a very high gross margin.
What tha....I didn't even....
Training *Technitium reprocessing", gona dust off my hulk
|
TheBlueMonkey
Natural Progression Hedonistic Imperative
170
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:19:00 -
[105] - Quote
Hestia Mar wrote:Velicitia wrote:EFF ONEF1 wrote:The whiners want to play the game their way with no interruption or outside factors unless they specifically go looking for it.
The people who "hate" them do not want them to play that way, they want them to play their way.
oversimplification
Not necessarily "our" way ... but just to realise that "yes, seriously, by clicking 'UNDOCK' you consented to PvP". Along with that, the acceptance that anyone can blap you anywhere at any time for any reason, and it's 100% "fair" within the confines of the game rules (sure, it stings ... and it has the potential to set you back days or weeks ... but someone can do the same thing to them [might even be YOU one day]) Although a carebear, I don't want to see any major changes to gameplay - the way it is, is the way it is. However this notion about 'undocking means you consent to pvp' is just total bollocks...if , when undocking, a window opens and gives a warning, such as you get when jumping into lo-sec, that you may be attacked at any time, and you need to click 'ok' to undock, then yes I would accept that undock does mean consent. But that's not what happens! Your analogy means that every time I leave my house, I'm consenting to being murdered on my way to work, and (let me check here...), er, no, I don't consent to that. I say again, I don't want/expect any changes...I know I can be ganked at any time but I do not consent to it, I just accept it as part of the game.
except for the fact that every time you leave your house you are doing just that. Accepting (not concenting to that but accepting it could happen) that by leaving the house someone could hit you with their car, mug you or any other thing that happens in the outside world.
Eve's the same. In real life people probably won't mug you if you live in a decent neighbourhood but in the same breath that's probably because they have money and are concerned with the police and the whole prison thing that goes with it.
Eve's the same again, maybe the consiquences should be a little harsher for the gankers but there are always ways round them because people aren't locked to 1 account per player. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7535
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:19:00 -
[106] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:It would still be EVE. The greatness of the game is that it can accomodate a multiplicity of play styles.
In theory a hi-sec bubble of theme park could accommodate those most hated of players from WOW, SWTOR etc. This would bump up CCP's resources. It would also mean more players would be able to find their feet before joining the "real" EVE. No it wouldn't, unless, in that same theory, those players were unable to interact with the market; were unable to engage in science and industry; were unable to mine, do exploration, and collect loot and salvage from missions.
Without those restrictions, the rest of EVE cannot accommodate the levels of protections inside that bubble and it would abused to no end. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:30:00 -
[107] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:It would still be EVE. The greatness of the game is that it can accomodate a multiplicity of play styles.
In theory a hi-sec bubble of theme park could accommodate those most hated of players from WOW, SWTOR etc. This would bump up CCP's resources. It would also mean more players would be able to find their feet before joining the "real" EVE. No it wouldn't, unless, in that same theory, those players were unable to interact with the market; were unable to engage in science and industry; were unable to mine, do exploration, and collect loot and salvage from missions. Without those restrictions, the rest of EVE cannot accommodate the levels of protections inside that bubble and it would abused to no end.
How would it be abused? I accept that some people would do their level best to abuse the system. They already do. But what would the nature of the abuse be? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7536
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:33:00 -
[108] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:How would it be abused? I accept that some people would do their level best to abuse the system. They already do. But what would the nature of the abuse be? Production of ISK, materials, and equipment without any possibility whatsoever to disrupt those activities. Competition on vastly unequal terms. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Ban Bindy
Bindy Brothers Pottery Association
210
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:33:00 -
[109] - Quote
Eve does not need a bubble of safety. Eve needs an end to long term events targeted against a particular set of players. No other changes than that. Just stop Hulkageddon and stop this endless, nonsensical crap about miners on the forums. I mean James315 and his stupid manifestos, in particular.
Stop Hulkageddon - I mean stop the Infinite event. Periodic Hulkageddons are fine. But allowing player groups to hit on one subset of players who are doing a legal activity is just going to cause this ranting and bitterness to go on and on. The Goons are brilliant at getting attention for themselves and I'm sure they can find some other way to do it. |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
252
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:35:00 -
[110] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:Tippia wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:It would still be EVE. The greatness of the game is that it can accomodate a multiplicity of play styles.
In theory a hi-sec bubble of theme park could accommodate those most hated of players from WOW, SWTOR etc. This would bump up CCP's resources. It would also mean more players would be able to find their feet before joining the "real" EVE. No it wouldn't, unless, in that same theory, those players were unable to interact with the market; were unable to engage in science and industry; were unable to mine, do exploration, and collect loot and salvage from missions. Without those restrictions, the rest of EVE cannot accommodate the levels of protections inside that bubble and it would abused to no end. How would it be abused? I accept that some people would do their level best to abuse the system. They already do. But what would the nature of the abuse be?
Does it really matter what the nature of the abuse would be? It just doesn't fit with the concept of EVE, plain and simple, it not's required to make EVE 'better' and those of us who actually signed up for the game as it's presented by CCP don't wish to see the sandbox ruined by those coming from other games and trying to turn it into the same rubbish that they played elsewhere.
If the Sims all became zombies it would be easy to escape them, just shove them in a room and make them answer the telephone. |
|
c4 t
Push Pharmaceuticals Push Interstellar Network
47
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:39:00 -
[111] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:"The whiny carebear that wants to destroy EVE" is the second biggest myth ever, right after Bigfoot. I've never seen one on these forums. What I do see, however, is a lot douchebaggy "PvPers" who wants to ruin EVE by idiotic ideas such as removal of local and High-sec areas.
The hate, in my eyes, is unwarranted and most often down right hypocritical.
****** detected! |
Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:45:00 -
[112] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:How would it be abused? I accept that some people would do their level best to abuse the system. They already do. But what would the nature of the abuse be? Production of ISK, materials, and equipment without any possibility whatsoever to disrupt those activities. Competition on vastly unequal terms.
1.Isn't most of the buying/selling/production already done in hi-sec anyway? And since you can't get all resources (or most?) from hi-sec their wouldn't be much of a change in the economy.
2.Competition between who?
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
86
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:47:00 -
[113] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
Because this game's economy runs on consumption, and that mainly happens AWAY from high sec where you have to jump through hoops to kill another players ship [quot] If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem?[/quote] Not a problem as long as the player accepts that undocking was his consent to pvp.
Quote:If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? None as long as he doesn't undock.
Quote:If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? See all the above.
Quote: 2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
Somewhat. I'm sure that are people with the authoritarian "you must do as I do because I'm the only one in the universe that really exists" mind set, but most of us aren't like that. We simply dislike people who want to play the game counter to it's nature and who then try to get ccp to adapt the game to them, rather than them adapting to it.
If people want a theme park mmo, they should be playing Star Trek, eve is about pvp competition and what most other games would call "griefing". |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7537
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:51:00 -
[114] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:Isn't most of the buying/selling/production already done in hi-sec anyway? Even if it is, none of it is protected and can be disrupted at any point. It's not about the economy (although that plays in as well, since less stuff will be destroyed), but about the inequality between the rule sets by all the actors.
Quote:Competition between who? Between anyone and everyone who buys, sells, and uses the stuff being produced. Some will do it inside the bubble and be completely safe from all disruptions; some will do it outside of the bubble and won't be. That makes it brain-dead to do anything of the kind outside of the bubble and you've just ruined EVE at its very core.
All production must be open to disruption, or you've just robbed the game of its largest PvP area. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Shift-click does nothing GÇö why the Unified Inventory isn't ready for primetime. |
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:52:00 -
[115] - Quote
Ban Bindy wrote: Stop Hulkageddon - I mean stop the Infinite event.
No no no no, hulkageddon forever! I see only pros to this, why can't you? |
Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:54:00 -
[116] - Quote
Virgil Travis wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:Tippia wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:It would still be EVE. The greatness of the game is that it can accomodate a multiplicity of play styles.
In theory a hi-sec bubble of theme park could accommodate those most hated of players from WOW, SWTOR etc. This would bump up CCP's resources. It would also mean more players would be able to find their feet before joining the "real" EVE. No it wouldn't, unless, in that same theory, those players were unable to interact with the market; were unable to engage in science and industry; were unable to mine, do exploration, and collect loot and salvage from missions. Without those restrictions, the rest of EVE cannot accommodate the levels of protections inside that bubble and it would abused to no end. How would it be abused? I accept that some people would do their level best to abuse the system. They already do. But what would the nature of the abuse be? Does it really matter what the nature of the abuse would be? It just doesn't fit with the concept of EVE, plain and simple, it not's required to make EVE 'better' and those of us who actually signed up for the game as it's presented by CCP don't wish to see the sandbox ruined by those coming from other games and trying to turn it into the same rubbish that they played elsewhere.
My idea, as unfleshed out as it is, is that this "bubble" would seed players into the rest of EVE where they could find more enagaging game play. I admit that it requires more thought, particularly as to how it might impact on the wider economy, but would it have an overall negative impact on other players? The dog-eat-dog aspect of the rest of the Universe wouldn't change. |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
639
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 13:55:00 -
[117] - Quote
Mainly because your representatives on the forums try to nerf our playstyles. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
598
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 14:06:00 -
[118] - Quote
Nobody "hates" hisec players.
End thread. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
968
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 14:14:00 -
[119] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:
My idea, as unfleshed out as it is, is that this "bubble" would seed players into the rest of EVE where they could find more enagaging game play. I admit that it requires more thought, particularly as to how it might impact on the wider economy, but would it have an overall negative impact on other players? The dog-eat-dog aspect of the rest of the Universe wouldn't change.
Let's say you're a nullsec alliance leader, and you need 250 million trit. you could mine it in nullsec, where it's dangerous ... OR you simply mine it in (or buy it from) hisec, where it's 100% safe, and jump it directly to where you need it to be.
NOW do you see why it's a problem? |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
303
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 14:17:00 -
[120] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:
My idea, as unfleshed out as it is, is that this "bubble" would seed players into the rest of EVE where they could find more enagaging game play. I admit that it requires more thought, particularly as to how it might impact on the wider economy, but would it have an overall negative impact on other players? The dog-eat-dog aspect of the rest of the Universe wouldn't change.
Let's say you're a nullsec alliance leader, and you need 250 million trit. you could mine it in nullsec, where it's dangerous ... OR you simply mine it in (or buy it from) hisec, where it's 100% safe, and jump it directly to where you need it to be. NOW do you see why it's a problem?
He probably doesn't. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method |
|
Cpt Roghie
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 14:18:00 -
[121] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:
My idea, as unfleshed out as it is, is that this "bubble" would seed players into the rest of EVE where they could find more enagaging game play. I admit that it requires more thought, particularly as to how it might impact on the wider economy, but would it have an overall negative impact on other players? The dog-eat-dog aspect of the rest of the Universe wouldn't change.
Let's say you're a nullsec alliance leader, and you need 250 million trit. you could mine it in nullsec, where it's dangerous ... OR you simply mine it in (or buy it from) hisec, where it's 100% safe, and jump it directly to where you need it to be. NOW do you see why it's a problem?
Sounds like more fun to mine it in 0.0 with Alliance mates.
Or just buy it. 0.0 safer than High sec anyway. Zzzzzzzz.
|
Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 14:25:00 -
[122] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:
My idea, as unfleshed out as it is, is that this "bubble" would seed players into the rest of EVE where they could find more enagaging game play. I admit that it requires more thought, particularly as to how it might impact on the wider economy, but would it have an overall negative impact on other players? The dog-eat-dog aspect of the rest of the Universe wouldn't change.
Let's say you're a nullsec alliance leader, and you need 250 million trit. you could mine it in nullsec, where it's dangerous ... OR you simply mine it in (or buy it from) hisec, where it's 100% safe, and jump it directly to where you need it to be. NOW do you see why it's a problem?
1.Wouldn't everyone else just get it in the same way? They would still have to transport it all the way to null so the effort is not really reduced.
2. You can't really do much with tritanium by itself. There are many things that cannot be sourced from hi-sec originally. Tritanium can be but morphite can't . So on and so forth... |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
305
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 14:32:00 -
[123] - Quote
Ticarus Hellbrandt wrote:Eve is a pvp game, it doesnt do the economy any good having half the population sitting about running missions and never being blown up in years of playing.
Yeah, despite this having been the case for 8 years now. Great logic there. The game's still here in case you missed it. If you were right, this game would have folded up years ago.
It hasn't because this game has a gameplay option for everybody who cares to defeat the learning curve. As soon as you remove the wide array of options, including a non-ship combat vs other players option, like mining for example, then the game truly will fold. |
Cpt Roghie
12
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 14:34:00 -
[124] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:Velicitia wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:
My idea, as unfleshed out as it is, is that this "bubble" would seed players into the rest of EVE where they could find more enagaging game play. I admit that it requires more thought, particularly as to how it might impact on the wider economy, but would it have an overall negative impact on other players? The dog-eat-dog aspect of the rest of the Universe wouldn't change.
Let's say you're a nullsec alliance leader, and you need 250 million trit. you could mine it in nullsec, where it's dangerous ... OR you simply mine it in (or buy it from) hisec, where it's 100% safe, and jump it directly to where you need it to be. NOW do you see why it's a problem? 1.Wouldn't everyone else just get it in the same way? They would still have to transport it all the way to null so the effort is not really reduced. 2. You can't really do much with tritanium by itself. There are many things that cannot be sourced from hi-sec originally. Tritanium can be but morphite can't . So on and so forth...
1. Jump freighters. Zzzzzzzz.
|
Haulie Berry
194
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 14:47:00 -
[125] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem?
It's not.
Quote:If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem?
It's not.
Quote:If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem?
There isn't one.
Quote: 2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
The problem isn't what they do in high security. The problem is the belief in a right to - and ceaseless campaigning for - the ability to be able to do that in absolute safety from engagement with the rest of the universe.
I will note, here, that the trader is actually an exception - that player is already participating in (and possibly thriving on) a form of PvP.
The miner mining scordite in a 1.0 system, though, is directly impacting the rest of the game. They are introducing new minerals to the market. This is okay, as long as the rest of the game can have an impact on the miner, as well - and it can. When the miner discovers that the rest of the game gets to affect him - often in a rather expensive fashion - the common impulse is to run to the forums and demand, in the abstract, that they should be able to affect the rest of the players in the game without having to worry about being affected by those players in turn.
The same goes for the mission runner who is injecting Isk and LP items into the economy.
It is not WHAT they are doing that anyone has a problem with - it is the hypocrisy of expecting that they have a right to affect the rest of us without being affected themselves that is the source of the ire. |
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
62
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 15:35:00 -
[126] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:
Let's say you're a nullsec alliance leader, and you need 250 million trit. you could mine it in nullsec, where it's dangerous ... OR you simply mine it in (or buy it from) hisec, where it's 100% safe, and jump it directly to where you need it to be.
NOW do you see why it's a problem?
If only nullsec was this dangerous place, and if only alliances didn't already get most of their building materials from hi-sec.
Problem is not hi sec, problem is the 0.0 alliances refuse to use the tools to get their minerals from the space they own.
|
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
62
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 15:43:00 -
[127] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:
The problem isn't what they do in high security. The problem is the belief in a right to - and ceaseless campaigning for - the ability to be able to do that in absolute safety from engagement with the rest of the universe.
I will note, here, that the trader is actually an exception - that player is already participating in (and possibly thriving on) a form of PvP.
The miner mining scordite in a 1.0 system, though, is directly impacting the rest of the game. They are introducing new minerals to the market. This is okay, as long as the rest of the game can have an impact on the miner, as well - and it can. When the miner discovers that the rest of the game gets to affect him - often in a rather expensive fashion - the common impulse is to run to the forums and demand, in the abstract, that they should be able to affect the rest of the players in the game without having to worry about being affected by those players in turn.
The same goes for the mission runner who is injecting Isk and LP items into the economy.
It is not WHAT they are doing that anyone has a problem with - it is the hypocrisy of expecting that they have a right to affect the rest of us without being affected themselves that is the source of the ire.
Stop assuming hi sec dwellers are campaigning for complete and utter safety in all of eve. The only real issue is the problem of ganking, there is still the option for wardecs. And being in an NPC corp has its disadvantages too as it further reduces your interactions iwth others and limits the things you can do in eve, much like hi sec limits what people can do in eve.
Living in hi sec, you don't get sov, you don't get to PvP at a whim, you don't get to fly specific ships or use specific ships abilities.
There is a freak ton of other space, and a freak ton of people who like to PvP, its not going to kill eve one bit if ganking were removed or made a bit more difficult for players.
Unless everyone can agree that Ganking is the endgame of eve? |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
196
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 15:48:00 -
[128] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem?
2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
boredom and being locked in to NAP's or associations they cannot break without real risk... also some few see opportunity in the chaos is makes. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
363
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 15:51:00 -
[129] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:There is a freak ton of other space, and a freak ton of people who like to PvP, its not going to kill eve one bit if ganking were removed or made a bit more difficult for players.
Unless everyone can agree that Ganking is the endgame of eve?
It's going to be nearly impossible to make ganking "harder" than it already is. There's already a really narrow window to even get a gank before CONCORD shows up which necessitates a very specific kind of ship, and your rewards are totally dependent on loot drops. Granted, I'm not trying to be all "woe gankers", just pointing out that there's not really much else you could change without wiping ganking off the map, since it's already on a knife edge as it is. |
Hortense Sledgemallet
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 15:54:00 -
[130] - Quote
It works both ways. There are plenty of us that hate the one dimensional pinheads that only care about killboard stats. |
|
teh ubernesstrader
Hedion University Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 15:57:00 -
[131] - Quote
the hilarious thing is its not just high seccers targeted as such, its anyone with an industrial ship.
i myself live in null and fight and do industry, again posting on an alt is needed because people have far too much time on their hands and will hunt whoever down which again is interesting.
i flew 4 BC, 2 BS, 2 ity 5's and a hulk to a system on the edge of empire to get them jumped to null ........ any combat ship not a problem however my hulk (which i tanked because im not a complete fool) and both the ity 5's i run down to said location got targeted every other system from jita near enough ....... so dont go telling me your targeting high sec num nuts its anyone with an industrial ship in high sec because they have low tanking capabilities compared to a combat ship for obv reasons and they dont put up much of a fight.
i can understand you carry on about people not paying attention and being afk or if they was botters but its not like u watch them and make sure that is what they are you assume everyone who has anything to do with industry is any of the above.
its actually rather funny but hey you adapt and find another way to achieve your goal but dont go complaining when you have no new faces in eve to recruit other then spys or alts from someone who wants to make you fail.
most people new will start with mining because its easy, they can watch whats going on gain some isk be it a little and progress from there probobly going into missions and getting used to some form of combat then wanting to expand furthur.
what you also have to realise is that if they are getting ganked in high-sec they must be petrified to go to null because of the whole security thing explained throughout the tutorial if highsec is meant to be a "safer" place then null must be like putting a child in a bull ring and making him wear a red shirt.
|
Haulie Berry
194
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 15:58:00 -
[132] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote: Stop assuming hi sec dwellers are campaigning for complete and utter safety in all of eve. The only real issue is the problem of ganking, there is still the option for wardecs. And being in an NPC corp has its disadvantages too as it further reduces your interactions iwth others and limits the things you can do in eve, much like hi sec limits what people can do in eve.
Living in hi sec, you don't get sov, you don't get to PvP at a whim, you don't get to fly specific ships or use specific ships abilities.
There is a freak ton of other space, and a freak ton of people who like to PvP, its not going to kill eve one bit if ganking were removed or made a bit more difficult for players.
Unless everyone can agree that Ganking is the endgame of eve?
None of that is relevant, though. The mechanical price one pays for being in hisec isn't the issue. You are interfering with every other player in the game via the economy. They get to interfere with you in return. It doesn't matter how much other space there is - everything is connected by way of the economy.
Hisec ganking is, in fact, a demonstrably intended game mechanic. Were it not, it would simply be mechanically disallowed. Instead we have Concord - a system which intentionally allows it to happen while still ensuring that it comes with a price.
Ganking is neither a problem nor Eve's endgame - it's just another aspect of the game. |
Jessica Sweetwater
Nighthawk Shadow Hunters
111
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:02:00 -
[133] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem?
2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
Its been like this since 05
It is like u said
mommy he wont play how i want him to, make him play how i want
So they screw up high sec on purpose and force ccp to nerf high sec, tis fine, let them carry on
Doesnt bother us high sec dwellers, there just idiots |
teh ubernesstrader
Hedion University Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:03:00 -
[134] - Quote
i agree with haulie in a way ..... ganking is in eve and its there to be used all it means is people need to savvy up and change their gameplay.
dont grab the best output of ore instead you concentrate on survivability but i can bet id still get ganked by 8 destroyers if i was to mine in highsec even with a tank on my hulk lol |
Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:07:00 -
[135] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote: The problem isn't what they do in high security. The problem is the belief in a right to - and ceaseless campaigning for - the ability to be able to do that in absolute safety from engagement with the rest of the universe.
I will note, here, that the trader is actually an exception - that player is already participating in (and possibly thriving on) a form of PvP.
The miner mining scordite in a 1.0 system, though, is directly impacting the rest of the game. They are introducing new minerals to the market. This is okay, as long as the rest of the game can have an impact on the miner, as well - and it can. When the miner discovers that the rest of the game gets to affect him - often in a rather expensive fashion - the common impulse is to run to the forums and demand, in the abstract, that they should be able to affect the rest of the players in the game without having to worry about being affected by those players in turn.
The same goes for the mission runner who is injecting Isk and LP items into the economy.
It is not WHAT they are doing that anyone has a problem with - it is the hypocrisy of expecting that they have a right to affect the rest of us without being affected themselves that is the source of the ire.
This makes sense to me. |
Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
286
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:10:00 -
[136] - Quote
Peter Raptor wrote:Because gankers are scared to PVP with ships which have guns
For such a pro PvP group, they do seem to go out of their way to avoid it. |
Khadann
First Legion
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:14:00 -
[137] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Because this is a PVP game, and most of the current crop of highseccers think they should be safe.
This hate is new, it wasn't here until around Incarna(the expansion geared to pull in the wow type players who wouldn't play because they had no avatar), so I would expect it to pass.
Probably pass once those wow players who refuse to HTFU finally move back to themepark MMOs
I don't remember eve subscriptions increasing like hell since Incarna, or the community getting more kikoo lol since then.
What i see instead is an increase of agressiveness on the non-PVP community.
The few posts we see from supposed carebears complaining are signed by alts or trial characters, basically hidden trolls from the biggest PVP alliances.
Also, i must say that whenever a change is occuring in eve online, the firsts to whine are not the supposed youngest players in high-sec but the loudest pvp players, complaining that whatever bad change is affecting them is due somehow to the High sec players...
Not to mention the non acceptance of gameplays different from PVP & ganking (i don't include gangking in pvp, do you?)
Does not look like hate for me, but mostly like an early, growing xenophobia against high sec players... A xenophobia the biggest alliances are pleased to spread so easilly through non indentified alts signed trolls... |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:24:00 -
[138] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote: Living in hi sec, you don't get sov, you don't get to PvP at a whim, you don't get to fly specific ships or use specific ships abilities.
A) If you don't get to PvP at whim in highsec, then the ganks are not actually happening, so... yeah/
B) Given ganks happen, and wardecs happen, do you REALLY want people to bringing dreadnaughts and titans?
C) You don't quite seem to understand sov. Its actually meaningless nowadays beyond a name on the map. We fight for it simply for pride. Why do you think so many of the oldschool alliances like PL hold no sov anymore? Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:27:00 -
[139] - Quote
Khadann wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote:Because this is a PVP game, and most of the current crop of highseccers think they should be safe.
This hate is new, it wasn't here until around Incarna(the expansion geared to pull in the wow type players who wouldn't play because they had no avatar), so I would expect it to pass.
Probably pass once those wow players who refuse to HTFU finally move back to themepark MMOs I don't remember eve subscriptions increasing like hell since Incarna, or the community getting more kikoo lol since then. What i see instead is an increase of agressiveness on the non-PVP community. The few posts we see from supposed carebears complaining are signed by alts or trial characters, basically hidden trolls from the biggest PVP alliances. Also, i must say that whenever a change is occuring in eve online, the firsts to whine are not the supposed youngest players in high-sec but the loudest pvp players, complaining that whatever bad change is affecting them is due somehow to the High sec players... Not to mention the non acceptance of gameplays different from PVP & ganking (i don't include gangking in pvp, do you?) Does not look like hate for me, but mostly like an early, growing xenophobia against high sec players... A xenophobia the biggest alliances are pleased to spread so easilly through non indentified alts signed trolls... There was no sudden spike in subs, but there was a massive amount of unsubs from older players.
And I sure hope you don't mean the CFC dislikes newer players, because that would just be silly. CFC LOVES newer players, and most of us try to recruit them like mad. They do, however, have to live up to our standards ;) Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
62
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:28:00 -
[140] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:
None of that is relevant, though. The mechanical price one pays for being in hisec isn't the issue. You are interfering with every other player in the game via the economy. They get to interfere with you in return. It doesn't matter how much other space there is - everything is connected by way of the economy.
Hisec ganking is, in fact, a demonstrably intended game mechanic. Were it not, it would simply be mechanically disallowed. Instead we have Concord - a system which intentionally allows it to happen while still ensuring that it comes with a price.
Ganking is neither a problem nor Eve's endgame - it's just another aspect of the game.
I think all i said is completely relevant, just as relevant as you or anyone saying that ganking is a necessity and removing it will completely kill eve.
There are downsides to living in hi sec and doing everything in hi sec, you can't get the same things from hi sec as you can get in wormholes, lowsec, and 0.0. Venture out into wormholes, 0.0, or lowsec and you can experience even more eve has to offer.
|
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
88
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:32:00 -
[141] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? It's not. Quote:If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? It's not. Quote:If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem? There isn't one. Quote: 2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
The problem isn't what they do in high security. The problem is the belief in a right to - and ceaseless campaigning for - the ability to be able to do that in absolute safety from engagement with the rest of the universe. I will note, here, that the trader is actually an exception - that player is already participating in (and possibly thriving on) a form of PvP. The miner mining scordite in a 1.0 system, though, is directly impacting the rest of the game. They are introducing new minerals to the market. This is okay, as long as the rest of the game can have an impact on the miner, as well - and it can. When the miner discovers that the rest of the game gets to affect him - often in a rather expensive fashion - the common impulse is to run to the forums and demand, in the abstract, that they should be able to affect the rest of the players in the game without having to worry about being affected by those players in turn. The same goes for the mission runner who is injecting Isk and LP items into the economy. It is not WHAT they are doing that anyone has a problem with - it is the hypocrisy of expecting that they have a right to affect the rest of us without being affected themselves that is the source of the ire.
This is the single most excellent explaination of the issue I've yet read. Well done.
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Haulie Berry
194
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Posted - 2012.05.31 16:35:00 -
[142] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:
I think all i said is completely relevant, just as relevant as you or anyone saying that ganking is a necessity and removing it will completely kill eve.
There are downsides to living in hi sec and doing everything in hi sec, you can't get the same things from hi sec as you can get in wormholes, lowsec, and 0.0. Venture out into wormholes, 0.0, or lowsec and you can experience even more eve has to offer.
So you feel that, because high sec "has downsides", high sec players should be able to interfere with every other player in the game (via their economic output) without having to fear any such interference in return?
Those are completely unrelated. High sec does have downsides, yes.
Regardless of those downsides, high-sec player activities still impact the rest of the universe - so in this context, how do those downsides matter at all? Unless the downsides were to be made so severe that a high sec dweller would be literally incapable of doing anything productive, it doesn't provide any balance to the equation. |
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
62
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:35:00 -
[143] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote: A) If you don't get to PvP at whim in highsec, then the ganks are not actually happening, so... yeah/
B) Given ganks happen, and wardecs happen, do you REALLY want people to bringing dreadnaughts and titans?
C) You don't quite seem to understand sov. Its actually meaningless nowadays beyond a name on the map. We fight for it simply for pride. Why do you think so many of the oldschool alliances like PL hold no sov anymore?
A) OKAY?
B) Uh, where did i say anything about dreadnaughts or titans?
C) I understand how sov works. It's meaningless only because the people make it that way. It isn't meaningless to other groups of people. Problem is the people who actually want to make use of the space that the large alliances have but don't ever use have to kiss up to every large alliance in game to live there. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7619
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:39:00 -
[144] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:Wouldn't everyone else just get it in the same way? They would still have to transport it all the way to null so the effort is not really reduced. Yes they would, and that's the entire problem. Transporting isn't all that difficult as it is, so what you've just done is remove all forms of logistical interdiction. You've made it impossible to affect the people who are affecting the rest of the universe.
Quote:You can't really do much with tritanium by itself. There are many things that cannot be sourced from hi-sec originally. Tritanium can be but morphite can't . Doesn't matter. You've still created an unassailable base of industrial production that affects the entire universe around it, but which is protected from any kind of influence in the other direction. This fundamentally breaks the very core of the game: the industry and the economy that drives it.
You're asking for godmode. If you don't understand why that is bad in a multiplayer game, there is no helping you. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Be a smarter newbie, don't fall into the trap of lvl V skills. |
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
62
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:45:00 -
[145] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:
So you feel that, because high sec "has downsides", high sec players should be able to interfere with every other player in the game (via their economic output) without having to fear any such interference in return?
Those are completely unrelated. High sec does have downsides, yes.
Regardless of those downsides, high-sec player activities still impact the rest of the universe - so in this context, how do those downsides matter at all? Unless the downsides were to be made so severe that a high sec dweller would be literally incapable of doing anything productive, it doesn't provide any balance to the equation.
Stop, I never said they shouldn't have any interference. Wardecs exist.
Do hi sec dwellers really affect 0.0 so much that it would be utterly impossible for 0.0 alliances to exist without people in hi sec?
|
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:55:00 -
[146] - Quote
Ticarus Hellbrandt wrote:Eve is a pvp game, it doesnt do the economy any good having half the population sitting about running missions and never being blown up in years of playing.
I see all these posts were people keep saying "it's a pvp game", "it's a sandbox" or whatever other idea they have as to why people need to be able to kill hi-sec players.
You're like the first one that actually gets it.
It has **** to do with pvp, or sandbox, and everything to do with the economic structure in EVE. The sandbox and PvP are just he fascilitators of what NEEDS to happen for the economy to run correctly.
People who want hi-sec to be safe are under this impression that if they ever got it they would still be able to do everything they already do, and that's wrong.
Fact: The day you see high sec systems that don't allow other players to kill you is the day that CCP removes mining, salvaging, or anything else that can effect the economy from those systems. Everything you want to do in hi-sec without ever being effected by another player would be removed from those systems, and placed were other players would be able to blow you up.
Or
Rat spawns would become so tough that people would simply not want to play in those systems because NPC's keep blowing up their hulks.
The entire game is based on one very important facet, people must lose their ship. That goes for every security system from high to null. People have to get blown up. CCP can not make it possible to play in once section of space with absolute immunity, without it effecting every other part of space.
The best solution, and something I know people would absofuckinglutely go apeshit over, would be for CCP to have it put into law in Hi-sec systems that you can't mine in hulks. Due to the increased agression against Hulk pilots in hi-sec space, and the strain placed on concord, all of the factions agree to enact a new law that requires all hulk pilots to operate in low sec space. No one would like that, but honestly it would remove all the bitching over losing hulks in hi-sec to suicide gankers.
I personally feel that's how it should be, and that it would greatly benefit the economy and low sec space to get all the afk super miners the hell out of high sec were they rarely lose their ships, until the next hulkageddon rolls around. |
Drei Ontalas
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 16:57:00 -
[147] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Drei Ontalas wrote:Wouldn't everyone else just get it in the same way? They would still have to transport it all the way to null so the effort is not really reduced. Yes they would, and that's the entire problem. Transporting isn't all that difficult as it is, so what you've just done is remove all forms of logistical interdiction. You've made it impossible to affect the people who are affecting the rest of the universe. Quote:You can't really do much with tritanium by itself. There are many things that cannot be sourced from hi-sec originally. Tritanium can be but morphite can't . Doesn't matter. You've still created an unassailable base of industrial production that affects the entire universe around it, but which is protected from any kind of influence in the other direction. This fundamentally breaks the very core of the game: the industry and the economy that drives it. You're asking for godmode. If you don't understand why that is bad in a multiplayer game, there is no helping you.
I get it now. Haulie Berry's post made a lot of sense to me. I see where you are coming from. |
Haulie Berry
194
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:02:00 -
[148] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:
Stop, I never said they shouldn't have any interference. Wardecs exist.
Wardecs are 100% circumventable. The sole reason people do not choose to utilize this fact at present is that if they do so, there are still alternative ways for others to interfere with them (that is, "ganking"), so it's only a very small net benefit.
If, however, one could not be "ganked", it would then become an EXTREMELY obvious next step to simply utilize the 100% war-dec avoidance option to render oneself completely immune to interference. The trivial "costs" of being in an NPC corp would, again, do nothing to alter the fact that you've now created an invincible actor who is fully shielded from influence by the rest of the game world, yet is still allowed to exert their own influence in that world.
Quote:Do hi sec dwellers really affect 0.0 so much that it would be utterly impossible for 0.0 alliances to exist without people in hi sec?
Whoa, whoa, whoa. You're misunderstanding the big picture here. This is not just about hi sec dwellers affecting 0.0 - this is about them affecting the entire game, including other hisec dwellers. I am largely a high sec dweller. I also have a pilot in faction war. None of my characters live in 0. This isn't an issue where the sides wholly conform to residency. |
Bunnie Hop
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
228
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:03:00 -
[149] - Quote
They hate us because we ate their cookies |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7619
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:06:00 -
[150] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:They hate us because we ate their cookies Yeah, you really shouldn't have done that.
They were left over from last Christmas. Enjoy the food poisoning. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Be a smarter newbie, don't fall into the trap of lvl V skills. |
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lavinia corelia
New Rome corp.
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:06:00 -
[151] - Quote
my two cents: instead of banning hulks from high sec (as requested by ... goonwaffe ), just make low sec ore REALLY much more profitabile than low sec ore and you will have BOTH a good number of gank targets for OMFGPWNZRZ carebears killers AND the possibility to adopt that "total safety" in high sec mining. |
Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
74
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:17:00 -
[152] - Quote
Gank kids want targets that don't shoot back. Mine whiners want absolute safety and no repercussions. Null empires want all the good ore in their systems and nowhere else. Goons want to destroy Hulks because it's good for their technet business. Devs want wars and strife to sell news stories and subscriptions.
And the majority of the population lives in the middle, does a little bit of everything, doesn't read the forums, and just enjoys the damn game. |
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
62
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:18:00 -
[153] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:
Wardecs are 100% circumventable. The sole reason people do not choose to utilize this fact at present is that if they do so, there are still alternative ways for others to interfere with them (that is, "ganking"), so it's only a very small net benefit.
If, however, one could not be "ganked", it would then become an EXTREMELY obvious next step to simply utilize the 100% war-dec avoidance option to render oneself completely immune to interference. The trivial "costs" of being in an NPC corp would, again, do nothing to alter the fact that you've now created an invincible actor who is fully shielded from influence by the rest of the game world, yet is still allowed to exert their own influence in that world.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. You're misunderstanding the big picture here. This is not just about hi sec dwellers affecting 0.0 - this is about them affecting the entire game, including other hisec dwellers. I am largely a high sec dweller. I also have a pilot in faction war. None of my characters live in 0. This isn't an issue where the sides wholly conform to residency.
You do know that people supposedly play this game for PvP?
Also, i forgot to mention the all too important can flipper pirates that kill their prey with an actual real PvP feel.
I'm sure people could live with the option to not be able to avoid wardecs, but i am sure that would involve having some sort of wardec "cooldown" period.
But again, i am more looking towards the idea of making ganking more difficult. Which essentially would affect the eve economy even more than ganking affects it know because it would take a bit more isk effort to do it.
But, i feel as far as the economy goes, you seem to believe the laws of supply and demand won't affect the economy accordingly. (This expecting that this supposed gamebreaking change makes PvP completely obsolete).
If you make 10 cents an hour at a job and gas costs a penny, its equivalent to making 100 dollars an hour and gas costs 10 dollars.
|
Bunnie Hop
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
228
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:20:00 -
[154] - Quote
Aeril Malkyre wrote:Gank kids want targets that don't shoot back. Mine whiners want absolute safety and no repercussions. Null empires want all the good ore in their systems and nowhere else. Goons want to destroy Hulks because it's good for their technet business. Devs want wars and strife to sell news stories and subscriptions.
And the majority of the population lives in the middle, does a little bit of everything, doesn't read the forums, and just enjoys the damn game.
Very true, I was a much happier person a few weeks ago before ever reading the forums The pvp here is far more brutal than ingame. |
Haulie Berry
194
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:20:00 -
[155] - Quote
Now, in addition to the obvious issue of requesting immunity from interference in a game world with which you are interfering, there is another issue that I think frequently gets people's hackles up:
The bad attitude.
It goes like this:
A miner, having been ganked, heads to the forums to post a complaint. A number of people then provide loads of useful suggestions to help the miner avoid that in the future.
The miner's response, almost invariably, is that he shouldn't have to do any of those things. He should just BE safe, because he wants to be, with no effort expended on his part.
If you suggest they fit a tank, they will complain that this reduces yield (as if they are the only ones in the game who have to accept tradeoffs in fitting a ship).
If you suggest they mine grav or mission sites, that takes too long and is too much work.
If you suggest they use a covetor or a battleship, again, that reduces yield and they shouldn't have to compromise on yield at all.
If you suggest that they simply pay attention to local and use Dscan, they are important people with important RL responsibilities that need to be attended to while mining, and so they can't possibly be expected to actually play the game while mining - preposterous, that!
So, in addition to the economic factor, there's also this attitude that the game should take responsibility for their safety, instead of doing it themselves, and this is a perspective that is somewhat antithetical to the nature of Eve. It's a perspective that is impossible to respect. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:21:00 -
[156] - Quote
You chopped your quote out and removed context. so lets have it again.
Ghetto quote: "Living in hi sec, you don't get sov, you don't get to PvP at a whim, you don't get to fly specific ships or use specific ships abilities."
Tallian Saotome wrote: A) If you don't get to PvP at whim in highsec, then the ganks are not actually happening, so... yeah/
B) Given ganks happen, and wardecs happen, do you REALLY want people to bringing dreadnaughts and titans?
C) You don't quite seem to understand sov. Its actually meaningless nowadays beyond a name on the map. We fight for it simply for pride. Why do you think so many of the oldschool alliances like PL hold no sov anymore?
Spikeflach wrote: A) OKAY?
You claimed you could not PVP at whim, I showed the flaw in that.
Spikeflach wrote: B) Uh, where did i say anything about dreadnaughts or titans?
Quote: you don't get to fly specific ships or use specific ships abilities. Right there, we can't bring capships(the only ships unusable in highsec) or use certain abilities(do you know how dumb it would be to use bubbles or bombs in a place where one innocent warping it will get you concorded?)
Let me bring those ships we can't have in highsec, and I get to shoot you with a titan doomsday. You carebears hate wardecs now? Just wait for fighterswarms or dreads that can oneshot your best weapons.
Spikeflach wrote: C) I understand how sov works. It's meaningless only because the people make it that way. It isn't meaningless to other groups of people. Problem is the people who actually want to make use of the space that the large alliances have but don't ever use have to kiss up to every large alliance in game to live there.
What meaning does it have beyond pride? Upgrades that still leave the space with less profit potential than NPC null? Jump bridges that are pretty much obsolete with titan bridges around?
It is mechanically meaningless, as far as any real gain you might have. Go look up my alliance, you might find I have a little experience in modern nullsec what what holding sov means. We hold sov because of PRIDE, not because it gains us anything. Hell, it costs the alliance more isk a month that either of us is likely to see in a year. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
qDoctor Strangelove
Beware of the Red Fox
23
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:24:00 -
[157] - Quote
High sec players are part of the economy. Low end minerals and most production is in high sec. Risk/Reward makes high-sec the primary place to make money. The profit in high sec should be a fraction of low and null, not better or even on par.
Also, high-sec is FULL of bots that mine and do missions. Also, it is full of semi-AFK players. When NOT at your keyboard paying attention, it SHOULD be dangerous.
Anyway, there is a place for no-risk-eve, it is called the test server. If you want to play the LIVE server, then you are pissing in someones pond when ever you undock.
If you mine, you lower the value of my stockpile. If you sell ICE, you lower the cost of running a POS, something that makes my T2 BPO less valuable as you lower the cost of invention. If you run missions you insert ISK into the economy, something that causes inflation, eating up the value of my isk. If you trade on the market, you engage me in Market PVP, and I will fight back.
Every aspect of EVE, have a PVP component...even mining.
|
Haulie Berry
194
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:27:00 -
[158] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:
You do know that people supposedly play this game for PvP?
Also, i forgot to mention the all too important can flipper pirates that kill their prey with an actual real PvP feel.
Also 100% circumventable. Don't jetcan mine like a moron. Problem solved. Gank-immunity remains intact.
Quote:I'm sure people could live with the option to not be able to avoid wardecs, but i am sure that would involve having some sort of wardec "cooldown" period.
Yeah? Did you see the tantrums they threw when they found out Decshield was getting nerfed?
Quote:But again, i am more looking towards the idea of making ganking more difficult. Which essentially would affect the eve economy even more than ganking affects it know because it would take a bit more isk effort to do it.
But why should it be more difficult? And why should the GAME make it more difficult, instead of the miners actually bearing the burden of doing that themselves?
Quote: But, i feel as far as the economy goes, you seem to believe the laws of supply and demand won't affect the economy accordingly. (This expecting that this supposed gamebreaking change makes PvP completely obsolete).
If you make 10 cents an hour at a job and gas costs a penny, its equivalent to making 100 dollars an hour and gas costs 10 dollars.
...which would be relevant if "gas" were the only resource in the universe, maybe, though even then it's an incredibly naive take on the economic impacts of such a hypothetical change. |
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
62
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:30:00 -
[159] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Now, in addition to the obvious issue of requesting immunity from interference in a game world with which you are interfering, there is another issue that I think frequently gets people's hackles up:
The bad attitude.
It goes like this:
A miner, having been ganked, heads to the forums to post a complaint. A number of people then provide loads of useful suggestions to help the miner avoid that in the future.
The miner's response, almost invariably, is that he shouldn't have to do any of those things. He should just BE safe, because he wants to be, with no effort on his behalf.
If you suggest they fit a tank, they will complain that this reduces yield (as if they are the only ones in the game who have to accept tradeoffs in fitting a ship).
If you suggest they mine grav or mission sites, that takes too long and is too much work.
If you suggest they use a covetor or a battleship, again, that reduces yield and they shouldn't have to compromise no yield at all.
If you suggest that they simply pay attention to local and use Dscan, they are important people with important RL responsibilities that need to be attended to while mining, and so they can't possibly be expected to actually play the game while mining - preposterous, that!
So, in addition to the economic factor, there's also this attitude that the game should take responsibility for their safety, instead of doing it themselves, and this is a perspective that is somewhat antithetical to the nature of Eve. It's a perspective that is impossible to respect.
Stop with the immunity from interference thing, the people arguing against the ideas are making that up.
The problem is not that the tank reduces yield, the problem is that it is still easily gankable even with the max tank.
mining mission sites is kind of worthless most the time, grav sites are few and far between.
Why use a ship not designed for your purpose. Mining ships were created ot do just that.
People do play at the keyboard while mining. Problem is knowing the 5 npc alts in your system that were created a week earlier as being suicide gankers. How you get that kind of intel in that amount of time boggles me.
Hi-sec is for learning eve, but the 0.0 entities force people who want to play the game as they choose to stay in hi sec. So what can they do but take advantage of hi sec to the fullest potential they can. Or maybe the players are willing to change eve so people actually "graduate" from hi sec? |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:30:00 -
[160] - Quote
lavinia corelia wrote:my two cents: instead of banning hulks from high sec, just make low sec ore REALLY much more profitabile than low sec ore and you will have BOTH a good number of gank targets for OMFGPWNZRZ carebears killers AND the possibility to adopt that "total safety" in high sec mining.
Wouldn't matter. There is nothing CCP can do to drive people to low sec to mine. No amount of "making it more profitable" will help.
Well, maybe if the drastically reduced the size of belts in hi-sec so that people would have to go to low sec in order to mine at all. |
|
Bunnie Hop
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
228
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:35:00 -
[161] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:lavinia corelia wrote:my two cents: instead of banning hulks from high sec, just make low sec ore REALLY much more profitabile than low sec ore and you will have BOTH a good number of gank targets for OMFGPWNZRZ carebears killers AND the possibility to adopt that "total safety" in high sec mining. Wouldn't matter. There is nothing CCP can do to drive people to low sec to mine. No amount of "making it more profitable" will help. Well, maybe if the drastically reduced the size of belts in hi-sec so that people would have to go to low sec in order to mine at all.
I think if they reduced the belts it would drive people away, not into low sec. Those who wish to be in low sec are there already. Your first line of thought is right on though, nothing CCP can do will drive high seccers into low sec. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:37:00 -
[162] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:People do play at the keyboard while mining. Problem is knowing the 5 npc alts in your system that were created a week earlier as being suicide gankers. How you get that kind of intel in that amount of time boggles me.
You don't need time, you just need to watch them warp to the belt you are in in a suspicious manner, and immediately warp out.
You are smart enough to have your own 1 week old alt with a ship full of webs to slingshot you, right? Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
62
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:37:00 -
[163] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:
Also 100% circumventable. Don't jetcan mine like a moron. Problem solved. Gank-immunity remains intact.
Yeah? Did you see they tantrums they threw when they found out Decshield was getting nerfed?
But why should it be more difficult? And why should the GAME make it more difficult, instead of the miners actually bearing the burden of doing that themselves?
...which would be relevant if "gas" were the only resource in the universe, maybe, though even then it's an incredibly naive take on the economic impacts of such a hypothetical change.
You really dont know of the large amounts of jetcan mining that happens...
Nah, i saw that how the new wardec system works, it is a decent tradeoff.
"Why should ganking be so easy and inexpensive?" is the real question. Making it more difficult would help this supposedly fragile eve economy.
You are a smart person, i think, so you can comprehend that gas would not be the only commodity on the face of the planet to succumb to the difference of 10 cents and 100 dollars. If a fix to ganking were so gamebreaking to affect the economy in any way, every single item would be affected. If the economy "tanks" plex price goes down, everything goes down in price to balance out with whatever income the people have. |
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
62
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:38:00 -
[164] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote: You don't need time, you just need to watch them warp to the belt you are in in a suspicious manner, and immediately warp out.
You are smart enough to have your own 1 week old alt with a ship full of webs to slingshot you, right?
Because playing eve correctly involves having more than one account? |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:40:00 -
[165] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:Haulie Berry wrote:Now, in addition to the obvious issue of requesting immunity from interference in a game world with which you are interfering, there is another issue that I think frequently gets people's hackles up:
The bad attitude.
It goes like this:
A miner, having been ganked, heads to the forums to post a complaint. A number of people then provide loads of useful suggestions to help the miner avoid that in the future.
The miner's response, almost invariably, is that he shouldn't have to do any of those things. He should just BE safe, because he wants to be, with no effort on his behalf.
If you suggest they fit a tank, they will complain that this reduces yield (as if they are the only ones in the game who have to accept tradeoffs in fitting a ship).
If you suggest they mine grav or mission sites, that takes too long and is too much work.
If you suggest they use a covetor or a battleship, again, that reduces yield and they shouldn't have to compromise no yield at all.
If you suggest that they simply pay attention to local and use Dscan, they are important people with important RL responsibilities that need to be attended to while mining, and so they can't possibly be expected to actually play the game while mining - preposterous, that!
So, in addition to the economic factor, there's also this attitude that the game should take responsibility for their safety, instead of doing it themselves, and this is a perspective that is somewhat antithetical to the nature of Eve. It's a perspective that is impossible to respect. Stop with the immunity from interference thing, the people arguing against the ideas are making that up. The problem is not that the tank reduces yield, the problem is that it is still easily gankable even with the max tank. mining mission sites is kind of worthless most the time, grav sites are few and far between. Why use a ship not designed for your purpose. Mining ships were created ot do just that. People do play at the keyboard while mining. Problem is knowing the 5 npc alts in your system that were created a week earlier as being suicide gankers. How you get that kind of intel in that amount of time boggles me. Hi-sec is for learning eve, but the 0.0 entities force people who want to play the game as they choose to stay in hi sec. So what can they do but take advantage of hi sec to the fullest potential they can. Or maybe the players are willing to change eve so people actually "graduate" from hi sec? The funny part is, you're exactly the person she's talking about.
Here you are making yet another post that simply amounts to "I SHULDNT HAZ TO DO DAT!!!!"
Hi-sec is not for learning EVE you douchebag, it's for people to play in relative safety so that the game doesn't degrade into a free for all deathmatch.
|
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
95
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:41:00 -
[166] - Quote
lavinia corelia wrote:my two cents: instead of banning hulks from high sec (as requested by ... goonwaffe ), just make low sec ore REALLY much more profitabile than low sec ore and you will have BOTH a good number of gank targets for OMFGPWNZRZ carebears killers AND the possibility to adopt that "total safety" in high sec mining.
Do you mean low sec ore more profitable then null sec? |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
303
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:42:00 -
[167] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote: You don't need time, you just need to watch them warp to the belt you are in in a suspicious manner, and immediately warp out.
You are smart enough to have your own 1 week old alt with a ship full of webs to slingshot you, right?
Because playing eve correctly involves having more than one account?
Or get some friends to help. Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method |
Spikeflach
Echo's of Liberty Dominatus Atrum Mortis
62
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:43:00 -
[168] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote: The funny part is, you're exactly the person she's talking about.
Here you are making yet another post that simply amounts to "I SHULDNT HAZ TO DO DAT!!!!"
Hi-sec is not for learning EVE you douchebag, it's for people to play in relative safety so that the game doesn't degrade into a free for all deathmatch.
I think i made good arguments against each point. Prove to me that my arguments against can't possibly be true. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:44:00 -
[169] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote: You don't need time, you just need to watch them warp to the belt you are in in a suspicious manner, and immediately warp out.
You are smart enough to have your own 1 week old alt with a ship full of webs to slingshot you, right?
Because playing eve correctly involves having more than one account? Actually, playing EVE correctly means having friends.
Those incapable of making friends can fake it with an alt. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Haulie Berry
194
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:45:00 -
[170] - Quote
Way to serve as a shining example.
Spikeflach wrote:
Stop with the immunity from interference thing, the people arguing against the ideas are making that up.
Oh, sure. I'll just buy into the conspiracy theory, why not?
Quote:The problem is not that the tank reduces yield, the problem is that it is still easily gankable even with the max tank.
Ah, yes. I forgot that one. One of my favorites.
So, I have two locks on my front door. A standard lock built into the knob, and a deadbolt.
I refer to these as "one kick" and "two kicks". When I set my door to "two kicks", I do not expect that my home is now 100% safe from intruders (as the name suggests). It is not there to provide 100% immunity to a break in. On a long enough timeline, my home WILL be broken into. It's simply there to discourage all but the most dedicated of burglars, thereby decreasing the frequency of breakins. So, I use the deadbolt despite the fact that it is less-than-100% effective.
Similarly, putting a tank on a hulk is not intended to - nor should it - provide 100% gank immunity. It is intended to discourage the less dedicated gankers, thereby decreasing the frequency of ganks. Put a tank on a Hulk and you just eliminated EVERY solo catalyst from the pool of potential gankers.
Quote:mining mission sites is kind of worthless most the time, grav sites are few and far between.
Yeah? Because miners over in S&I are reporting great success with this. You, of course, can't be arsed, though - no, the game must be changed to suit you.
Quote:Why use a ship not designed for your purpose. Mining ships were created ot do just that.
A covetor is a mining ship. That aside, there's that Bad Attitude I was talking about: "Why should I have to do THAT?" Why shouldn't you have to do that? Why shouldn't you have to do the same things that EVERY other player has to do and adapt with the environment? There are MANY situations in which a ship that wasn't designed specifically for a task functions better for that task than a purpose-built ship because of other factors. This is not a "problem" that only miners have to deal with.
Quote:People do play at the keyboard while mining. Problem is knowing the 5 npc alts in your system that were created a week earlier as being suicide gankers. How you get that kind of intel in that amount of time boggles me.
Confirming that miners are the only group in the game who have to deal with fuzzy intelligence. Pay attention, use D-scan at a moderate range. See a potential threat incoming? Warp out. |
|
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:47:00 -
[171] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:lavinia corelia wrote:my two cents: instead of banning hulks from high sec, just make low sec ore REALLY much more profitabile than low sec ore and you will have BOTH a good number of gank targets for OMFGPWNZRZ carebears killers AND the possibility to adopt that "total safety" in high sec mining. Wouldn't matter. There is nothing CCP can do to drive people to low sec to mine. No amount of "making it more profitable" will help. Well, maybe if the drastically reduced the size of belts in hi-sec so that people would have to go to low sec in order to mine at all. I think if they reduced the belts it would drive people away, not into low sec. Those who wish to be in low sec are there already. Your first line of thought is right on though, nothing CCP can do will drive high seccers into low sec.
Yeah, the second part was really just a kind of afterthough.
People who don't want to go to low sec don't go because they don't want to increase their chances of encountering conflict with another player, otherwise known as pvp.
Unfortunetly, to many of these people also think that hi sec means they don't have to do any pvp.
Personally, I think that CCP needs to create a sticky thread at the top of GD that straight out says that ganking in hi sec is a part of the game that will always be there, and that they won't remove it due to the overal structure of EVE being a game were you're expected to get your ship blown up.
Then everytime someone comes to the forums to cry about pvp happening, people would need only to point them in the direction of that sticky. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:50:00 -
[172] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote: The funny part is, you're exactly the person she's talking about.
Here you are making yet another post that simply amounts to "I SHULDNT HAZ TO DO DAT!!!!"
Hi-sec is not for learning EVE you douchebag, it's for people to play in relative safety so that the game doesn't degrade into a free for all deathmatch.
I think i made good arguments against each point. Prove to me that my arguments against can't possibly be true.
No you didn't.
The only thing you did was affirm everything that the person you quoted said.
She said, every time someone complains, people give suggestions. The people complaining just turn around and say I shouldn't have to do those things.
You exact responce was, I shouldn't have to do those things.
Contrary to what you might think, sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "I CANT HEARZ YOOOOUUUUZZZZ!!" is not an intelligent way to have a discussion. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:51:00 -
[173] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:lavinia corelia wrote:my two cents: instead of banning hulks from high sec, just make low sec ore REALLY much more profitabile than low sec ore and you will have BOTH a good number of gank targets for OMFGPWNZRZ carebears killers AND the possibility to adopt that "total safety" in high sec mining. Wouldn't matter. There is nothing CCP can do to drive people to low sec to mine. No amount of "making it more profitable" will help. Well, maybe if the drastically reduced the size of belts in hi-sec so that people would have to go to low sec in order to mine at all. I think if they reduced the belts it would drive people away, not into low sec. Those who wish to be in low sec are there already. Your first line of thought is right on though, nothing CCP can do will drive high seccers into low sec. Yeah, the second part was really just a kind of afterthough. People who don't want to go to low sec don't go because they don't want to increase their chances of encountering conflict with another player, otherwise known as pvp. Unfortunetly, to many of these people also think that hi sec means they don't have to do any pvp. Personally, I think that CCP needs to create a sticky thread at the top of GD that straight out says that ganking in hi sec is a part of the game that will always be there, and that they won't remove it due to the overal structure of EVE being a game were you're expected to get your ship blown up. Then everytime someone comes to the forums to cry about pvp happening, people would need only to point them in the direction of that sticky. I'm kinda liking the idea of a message you have to click on OK to in order to undock that says you might get ganked out in that scary space place. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:52:00 -
[174] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Spikeflach wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote: The funny part is, you're exactly the person she's talking about.
Here you are making yet another post that simply amounts to "I SHULDNT HAZ TO DO DAT!!!!"
Hi-sec is not for learning EVE you douchebag, it's for people to play in relative safety so that the game doesn't degrade into a free for all deathmatch.
I think i made good arguments against each point. Prove to me that my arguments against can't possibly be true. No you didn't. The only thing you did was affirm everything that the person you quoted said. She said, every time someone complains, people give suggestions. The people complaining just turn around and say I shouldn't have to do those things. Your exact responce was, I shouldn't have to do those things. (Obviously through a halff assed attempt at trying to debunk the idea that those suggestions even work, even though people actually do do those things to great success, but those people are obviously smarter then you. That's not really your fault I guess.) Contrary to what you might think, sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "I CANT HEARZ YOOOOUUUUZZZZ!!" is not an intelligent way to have a discussion.
I have no ******* clue why I quoted myself when I wanted to edit the post I made.
Guess I'm no smarter then the guy I was responding to. I fail. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:55:00 -
[175] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:lavinia corelia wrote:my two cents: instead of banning hulks from high sec, just make low sec ore REALLY much more profitabile than low sec ore and you will have BOTH a good number of gank targets for OMFGPWNZRZ carebears killers AND the possibility to adopt that "total safety" in high sec mining. Wouldn't matter. There is nothing CCP can do to drive people to low sec to mine. No amount of "making it more profitable" will help. Well, maybe if the drastically reduced the size of belts in hi-sec so that people would have to go to low sec in order to mine at all. I think if they reduced the belts it would drive people away, not into low sec. Those who wish to be in low sec are there already. Your first line of thought is right on though, nothing CCP can do will drive high seccers into low sec. Yeah, the second part was really just a kind of afterthough. People who don't want to go to low sec don't go because they don't want to increase their chances of encountering conflict with another player, otherwise known as pvp. Unfortunetly, to many of these people also think that hi sec means they don't have to do any pvp. Personally, I think that CCP needs to create a sticky thread at the top of GD that straight out says that ganking in hi sec is a part of the game that will always be there, and that they won't remove it due to the overal structure of EVE being a game were you're expected to get your ship blown up. Then everytime someone comes to the forums to cry about pvp happening, people would need only to point them in the direction of that sticky. I'm kinda liking the idea of a message you have to click on OK to in order to undock that says you might get ganked out in that scary space place. They would ignore it and still come to the forums and ***** that it sholdn't happen. |
Onyx Nyx
Perkone Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 17:58:00 -
[176] - Quote
I don't hate hisec carebears. I just want to wash my face and bathe in their blood now and then. |
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:01:00 -
[177] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Doesn't matter. You've still created an unassailable base of industrial production that affects the entire universe around it, but which is protected from any kind of influence in the other direction. This fundamentally breaks the very core of the game: the industry and the economy that drives it.
You're asking for godmode. If you don't understand why that is bad in a multiplayer game, there is no helping you.
So let me get this straight, highsec miners who do nothing but mine all day and make on average 20 million an hour by selling their minerals/ore to other players, are worse than players who run missions all day, bringing brand new isk into the game (which affects the economy much, much more) through bounties and mission rewards?
IMO, people who mission run all day should be the real targets... but that would mean ganking something other than a defenseless ship wouldn't it?
eve ganking = the path of least resistance |
Haulie Berry
194
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:03:00 -
[178] - Quote
Alternatively, the old adage with the two campers and the bear applies. You don't have to outrun the bear - you just have to outrun the other camper.
I don't really "do" Hulkageddon. I have occasionally ganked a hulk in high sec here and there, mostly for funsies. I am largely a solo player, though, so what I typically do is scout potential targets with a passive targeter and a ship scanner, then go after only the hulks I'm sure I can break alone.
The dude with the tank fit? He gets left alone, because one system over there's a guy sitting in a belt with a full rack of mining laser upgrades and not a mid-slot module in sight.
So at least in the case of the solo-ganker, you don't really have to tank the ganker - you just have to outtank the other Hulks. :D |
terrly bronks
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:04:00 -
[179] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:Because the PVPers somehow think they have the right to tell other people how to play a sandbox game. Notice that it's only PVPers bitching and that the carebears actually very rarely complain about anything (unless they got ganked in hi-sec).
More so I think the majority of these 'PVPers' that complain found out that they are worthless in any major battle and just want some easy targets in low-sec so they can at least kill something. But one does not simply kill a miner alone in hi-sec so they whine and ***** here :D.
As for the Goons trying to mess with hi-sec, it's just in their interest to kill as many Hulks as possible because they earn massive amounts of money for each one that gets replaced. It's business, nothing more.
110 % this for sure
pvp'ers need to stay in 0.0 I think the problem is is it is to easy now to hold space almost takes an act of god to to take sov away CCP needs to go back to the old way :) kill the pos's get sov :) put up more pos's get sov lol they took it to far and now its just high sec space without gank sec loss lol
|
Haulie Berry
194
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:05:00 -
[180] - Quote
Andoria Thara wrote:Tippia wrote:Doesn't matter. You've still created an unassailable base of industrial production that affects the entire universe around it, but which is protected from any kind of influence in the other direction. This fundamentally breaks the very core of the game: the industry and the economy that drives it.
You're asking for godmode. If you don't understand why that is bad in a multiplayer game, there is no helping you. So let me get this straight, highsec miners who do nothing but mine all day and make on average 20 million an hour by selling their minerals/ore to other players, are worse than players who run missions all day, bringing brand new isk into the game (which affects the economy much, much more) through bounties and mission rewards? IMO, people who mission run all day should be the real targets... but that would mean ganking something other than a defenseless ship wouldn't it? eve ganking = the path of least resistance
Mission runners don't get ganked? Tell that to Solarius. |
|
Bunnie Hop
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
228
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:12:00 -
[181] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:lavinia corelia wrote:my two cents: instead of banning hulks from high sec, just make low sec ore REALLY much more profitabile than low sec ore and you will have BOTH a good number of gank targets for OMFGPWNZRZ carebears killers AND the possibility to adopt that "total safety" in high sec mining. Wouldn't matter. There is nothing CCP can do to drive people to low sec to mine. No amount of "making it more profitable" will help. Well, maybe if the drastically reduced the size of belts in hi-sec so that people would have to go to low sec in order to mine at all. I think if they reduced the belts it would drive people away, not into low sec. Those who wish to be in low sec are there already. Your first line of thought is right on though, nothing CCP can do will drive high seccers into low sec. Yeah, the second part was really just a kind of afterthough. People who don't want to go to low sec don't go because they don't want to increase their chances of encountering conflict with another player, otherwise known as pvp. Unfortunetly, to many of these people also think that hi sec means they don't have to do any pvp. Personally, I think that CCP needs to create a sticky thread at the top of GD that straight out says that ganking in hi sec is a part of the game that will always be there, and that they won't remove it due to the overal structure of EVE being a game were you're expected to get your ship blown up. Then everytime someone comes to the forums to cry about pvp happening, people would need only to point them in the direction of that sticky.
If they just made the hulks a bit more durable so it took tornadoes or the like to gank them instead of toy destroyers I think it would end most of the anti gank threads. You are right, nowhere is safe nor should it be, but I believe it takes too little effort to gank. Personally I fly the Rattlesnake and the Nighthawk most of the time when missioning, or the scythe or basilisk for support, ships not so easily ganked just because I know ganking can happen at any moment. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:12:00 -
[182] - Quote
terrly bronks wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:Because the PVPers somehow think they have the right to tell other people how to play a sandbox game. Notice that it's only PVPers bitching and that the carebears actually very rarely complain about anything (unless they got ganked in hi-sec).
More so I think the majority of these 'PVPers' that complain found out that they are worthless in any major battle and just want some easy targets in low-sec so they can at least kill something. But one does not simply kill a miner alone in hi-sec so they whine and ***** here :D.
As for the Goons trying to mess with hi-sec, it's just in their interest to kill as many Hulks as possible because they earn massive amounts of money for each one that gets replaced. It's business, nothing more. 110 % this for sure pvp'ers need to stay in 0.0 I think the problem is is it is to easy now to hold space almost takes an act of god to to take sov away CCP needs to go back to the old way :) kill the pos's get sov :) put up more pos's get sov lol they took it to far and now its just high sec space without gank sec loss lol
And yet people insist that no one wants to make hi sec 100% safe?
Looks like that's exactly what this individual is asking for.
The simplest solution? If you don't like it, don't play. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:14:00 -
[183] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:lavinia corelia wrote:my two cents: instead of banning hulks from high sec, just make low sec ore REALLY much more profitabile than low sec ore and you will have BOTH a good number of gank targets for OMFGPWNZRZ carebears killers AND the possibility to adopt that "total safety" in high sec mining. Wouldn't matter. There is nothing CCP can do to drive people to low sec to mine. No amount of "making it more profitable" will help. Well, maybe if the drastically reduced the size of belts in hi-sec so that people would have to go to low sec in order to mine at all. I think if they reduced the belts it would drive people away, not into low sec. Those who wish to be in low sec are there already. Your first line of thought is right on though, nothing CCP can do will drive high seccers into low sec. Yeah, the second part was really just a kind of afterthough. People who don't want to go to low sec don't go because they don't want to increase their chances of encountering conflict with another player, otherwise known as pvp. Unfortunetly, to many of these people also think that hi sec means they don't have to do any pvp. Personally, I think that CCP needs to create a sticky thread at the top of GD that straight out says that ganking in hi sec is a part of the game that will always be there, and that they won't remove it due to the overal structure of EVE being a game were you're expected to get your ship blown up. Then everytime someone comes to the forums to cry about pvp happening, people would need only to point them in the direction of that sticky. If they just made the hulks a bit more durable so it took tornadoes or the like to gank them instead of toy destroyers I think it would end most of the anti gank threads. You are right, nowhere is safe nor should it be, but I believe it takes too little effort to gank. Personally I fly the Rattlesnake and the Nighthawk most of the time when missioning, or the scythe or basilisk for support, ships not so easily ganked just because I know ganking can happing at any moment.
Is it profitable to suicide gank a hulk?
Goon payout aside. If I suicide ganked a hulk, would it make me profit after I replace the ship and all it's fittings I had to lose in order to do so? |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
88
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:16:00 -
[184] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Alternatively, the old adage with the two campers and the bear applies. You don't have to outrun the bear - you just have to outrun the other camper.
I don't really "do" Hulkageddon. I have occasionally ganked a hulk in high sec here and there, mostly for funsies. I am largely a solo player, though, so what I typically do is scout potential targets with a passive targeter and a ship scanner, then go after only the hulks I'm sure I can break alone.
The dude with the tank fit? He gets left alone, because one system over there's a guy sitting in a belt with a full rack of mining laser upgrades and not a mid-slot module in sight.
So at least in the case of the solo-ganker, you don't really have to tank the ganker - you just have to outtank the other Hulks. :D
ROFL, very nice.
i've never suicide ganked (or mined for that matter), but I can see why lots of people like doing it. I am more impressed by the people who gank mission runners in pimp fit ships (a while back I noticed killmails on eve-kill by a guy killing tengus with an arty apoc or something, that was so cool lol).
I mainly intersested in this issue (and high sec issues in general) because i've always been fascinated by how people try to justify their unjustifiable actions and posistions in the face of obvious facts to the contrary. The shear amount of logical fallacies coming from that last guy you were arguing with (the "I shouldn't have to do that" guy) was beyond entertaining lol.
It's obvious that the high sec people whinning on the forums are slef interested people who want to have their cake (play eve and interact with other players via selling minerals or shooting npcs for bounties) and eat it too (play in perfect safety without risk of loss). I've just never seen a single one of them admit it. |
loki energon
Voodoo Children Workers Trade Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:19:00 -
[185] - Quote
Ticarus Hellbrandt wrote:Eve is a pvp game, it doesnt do the economy any good having half the population sitting about running missions and never being blown up in years of playing.
really? ive never seen that ANYWHERE. real sandbox games have places where dumba**es get killed for being stupid, and places where a**holes get smacked down for for being a**holes.. this is true in eve as well, no need for everything to be PVP. kill em all. |
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:19:00 -
[186] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote: Mission runners don't get ganked? Tell that to Solarius.
highsec mission runners? I'd say the percentage is fairly low if they do. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
328
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:20:00 -
[187] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Haulie Berry wrote:Alternatively, the old adage with the two campers and the bear applies. You don't have to outrun the bear - you just have to outrun the other camper.
I don't really "do" Hulkageddon. I have occasionally ganked a hulk in high sec here and there, mostly for funsies. I am largely a solo player, though, so what I typically do is scout potential targets with a passive targeter and a ship scanner, then go after only the hulks I'm sure I can break alone.
The dude with the tank fit? He gets left alone, because one system over there's a guy sitting in a belt with a full rack of mining laser upgrades and not a mid-slot module in sight.
So at least in the case of the solo-ganker, you don't really have to tank the ganker - you just have to outtank the other Hulks. :D It's obvious that the high sec people whinning on the forums are slef interested people who want to have their cake (play eve and interact with other players via selling minerals or shooting npcs for bounties) and eat it too (play in perfect safety without risk of loss). I've just never seen a single one of them admit it.
No its not obvious
Tal
|
Ammit Thoth
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:20:00 -
[188] - Quote
6 years of this same argument is getting rather old tbh
Most of the people whining about this won't even be here in 2 years regardless of hulkageddon, high sec ganking, etc...
So, by all means continue to QQ like so many before you, for changes that time and time again CCP has stated they will not make.
|
baltec1
1313
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:21:00 -
[189] - Quote
Its not that we hate high sec players, its just that they make it so easy for us. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:28:00 -
[190] - Quote
Andoria Thara wrote:Haulie Berry wrote: Mission runners don't get ganked? Tell that to Solarius.
highsec mission runners? I'd say the percentage is fairly low if they do. Pretty easy kills, actually, since you always know exactly where the resist hole is. All you have to do is deal enough damage to break their tank and let the rats do the rest. Used to be an issue more than hullk ganking was.
Never as widespread as hulk ganking, but mission runners were never as obnoxious about wanting to be left alone either. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
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Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:38:00 -
[191] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote: Never as widespread as hulk ganking, but mission runners were never as obnoxious about wanting to be left alone either.
Thank you.
I'd rather hear that then all of these holier than though speeches about how players need to come together to squash the common enemy who threatens to ruin eve forever and blah blah yadda yadda.
Gankers gonna gank, who cares what your excuse is to help you sleep better at night, just do it. |
baltec1
1313
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:40:00 -
[192] - Quote
Andoria Thara wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote: Never as widespread as hulk ganking, but mission runners were never as obnoxious about wanting to be left alone either.
Thank you. I'd rather hear that then all of these holier than though speeches about how players need to come together to squash the common enemy who threatens to ruin eve forever and blah blah yadda yadda. Gankers gonna gank, who cares what your excuse is to help you sleep better at night, just do it.
Mission tengu can be alpha'd upon undocking if they dont turn on their hardeners |
Bunnie Hop
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
228
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:44:00 -
[193] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Andoria Thara wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote: Never as widespread as hulk ganking, but mission runners were never as obnoxious about wanting to be left alone either.
Thank you. I'd rather hear that then all of these holier than though speeches about how players need to come together to squash the common enemy who threatens to ruin eve forever and blah blah yadda yadda. Gankers gonna gank, who cares what your excuse is to help you sleep better at night, just do it. Mission tengu can be alpha'd upon undocking if they dont turn on their hardeners
Which is why I sold my mission Tengu and trained up the Nighthawk, not as much dps but pretty nice tank against gankers. |
Shea Valerien
House of Valerien
39
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:49:00 -
[194] - Quote
Vaju Enki wrote:Because most of them want to change EvE Online into a Theme Park MMO.
Um. No, they don't. I live in hi-sec and have zero interest into turning it into a Theme Park MMO. Most of the folks I engage with have zero interest in turning it into a Theme Park MMO. I came here specifically to get away from Theme Park MMOs (blech). So here's one hi-sec'er who will be fighting tooth and nail to keep Eve dangerous. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1563
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:50:00 -
[195] - Quote
People who cannot adapt have a hatred of those who can.
Highsec dwellers have adapted to the kill-everything-that-moves tendencies of lowsec and nullsec by not going there. There is also the "life" of low and null to consider hence that is also a measure of adaptation by not joining their corporations.
Note that highsec dweller and carebear are not the same thing. There are a lot of players who base out of high sec and make forays into low and null for small fleet engagement and one-on-one, and there are also a lot of highsec mercenary groups handling war declarations and such related matters.
To couch the subject as "highsec = carebear" is incorrect, and out into deep null beyond the Great Wall of Carebear (bubble camps and gank pipelines) there are carebears who get their panties in a very impressive wad when a "non-blue" arrives in their system and forces them (or their bots) to dock up without even so much as a peep on their intel channels. |
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 18:59:00 -
[196] - Quote
meh, it's all just propaganda 101, demonizing the enemy/competition.
I'm pretty sure some of the head honchos in the major alliances have read up on psychological warfare tactics as well. No doubt that would come in handy when dealing with so many players.
Eventually, the enemy will just quit logging in, because they're not having fun anymore. That's the whole point. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 19:07:00 -
[197] - Quote
Andoria Thara wrote:Eventually, the enemy will just quit logging in, because they're not having fun anymore. That's the whole point. Thats how GSF wins wars without winning fights Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Khari Amoensis
ex 247 v. 01
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 19:30:00 -
[198] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Because this is a PVP game, and most of the current crop of highseccers think they should be safe.
I was under the assumption EVE was a sandbox - as in do as you want while others do as they want. I don't mind hi-sec not being safe. It definitely wasn't when I started and I never expected it to be.
Had my share of trouble, rode the wave and c'est la vie. No problem with that especially since I got podded in my first 2 months of playing EVE.
But from sandbox game to PVP game, that's a rather long way to go. I'm fine with EVE being a PVP-centric game. But the point of EVE is that everybody can do something that would fit his/her play-style without something specific being enforced to anybody.
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Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 19:35:00 -
[199] - Quote
Khari Amoensis wrote: But from sandbox game to PVP game, that's a rather long way to go. I'm fine with EVE being a PVP-centric game. But the point of EVE is that everybody can do something that would fit his/her play-style without something specific being enforced to anybody.
Good point. If this was just a "PVP game", we wouln't have PVE missions at all.
Unless CCP plans on completely removing PvE in the future. |
Haulie Berry
194
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 19:36:00 -
[200] - Quote
Khari Amoensis wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote:Because this is a PVP game, and most of the current crop of highseccers think they should be safe. I was under the assumption EVE was a sandbox - as in do as you want while others do as they want.
You CAN do what you want while others do what they want. Sometimes what others want is to shoot you in the face while you're doing what you want.
Quote:But from sandbox game to PVP game, that's a rather long way to go. I'm fine with EVE being a PVP-centric game. But the point of EVE is that everybody can do something that would fit his/her play-style without something specific being enforced to anybody.
What you're describing is more of a "walled garden" than a sandbox. The nature of a sandbox is that the game mechanics allow you to do what you want - that doesn't extend to the other players in the sandbox. They're another matter entirely. |
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Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 19:37:00 -
[201] - Quote
Khari Amoensis wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote:Because this is a PVP game, and most of the current crop of highseccers think they should be safe. I was under the assumption EVE was a sandbox - as in do as you want while others do as they want. I don't mind hi-sec not being safe. It definitely wasn't when I started and I never expected it to be. Had my share of trouble, rode the wave and c'est la vie. No problem with that especially since I got podded in my first 2 months of playing EVE. But from sandbox game to PVP game, that's a rather long way to go. I'm fine with EVE being a PVP-centric game. But the point of EVE is that everybody can do something that would fit his/her play-style without something specific being enforced to anybody. Specifically, its a PVP sandbox.
Everything you do can be seen as a form of pvp, and that was a design principle behind the game(as stated in old interviews and such). The ONLY exception I can see is missions, and I saw it pointed out that missions make war on everyone else in the form of devaluing our money by creating more.
I am not telling you that you have to change your habits, but you have to accept that everything you do in EVE is a form of PVP if you want to not become hopelessly embittered by this game. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
29
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 19:41:00 -
[202] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote: I am not telling you that you have to change your habits, but you have to accept that everything you do in EVE is a form of PVP if you want to not become hopelessly embittered by this game.
Everything and anything can be considered PvP. Even buying flowers for your girl from the local market, the local market stole the business of the regional florist.
People even PvP over attention of the opposite sex, happens all the time.
It's a cut-throat world out there, and eve does a pretty good job at mimicking it. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 19:44:00 -
[203] - Quote
Andoria Thara wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote: I am not telling you that you have to change your habits, but you have to accept that everything you do in EVE is a form of PVP if you want to not become hopelessly embittered by this game.
Everything and anything can be considered PvP. Even buying flowers for your girl from the local market, the local market stole the business of the regional florist. People even PvP over attention of the opposite sex, happens all the time. It's a cut-throat world out there, and eve does a pretty good job at mimicking it. This is why EVE is great, but in the mainstream MMOs, there ARE things you can do that are not in any way PVP.
Unless you consider progression guilds driving power creep as PVP, anyway. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Virgil Travis
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
303
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 20:02:00 -
[204] - Quote
terrly bronks wrote:pvp'ers need to stay in 0.0
And now you're telling people where they can pvp, and you've obviously never heard of low sec at all have you? Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method |
Information Agent
Apparently Miners
63
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 20:03:00 -
[205] - Quote
There is so much 'I am elite because I pvp in my pixel spaceship' in here its actually giving me gas.
Everything in this game is pvp, even mining, even mission running, everyone is competing with someone on some level. Yet, just lately, the nullsec residents seem mad about something, so mad in fact, they are paying for people to gank in highsec outside of the normal operating window of hulkageddon.
Between watching the whines from highsec players, and seeing the nullsec pilots blabber on about ganking being the only way to remove miners from the game while trying desperately to not drop their juicebox's into their fathers laps, I have started to get annoyed at this to and fro.
Highsec guys - Stop mining in hulks or anything expensive, don't whine if you die, it happens. The extended hulkageddon wont last forever, and if it does then just do something else. At the very least, start stockpiling stuff, stop putting stuff into markets, starve the system. Just by all thats been made holey, please stop whining.
Nullsec guys- You are not fooling anybody, there is no 'elite pvp' in null only blobs, so why you think bringing your bull to highsec for the long term is a good idea for the game is frankly idiotic, its old, you're old, your alliances need to reset the neighbours up there in 'lawless blue null' rather than collectively hiding in each others underpants while screaming bloody murder through the zipper at carebears, and yeah you guys dont look very tough with a dong draped over one ear. Its not the bears fault you guys are frustrated and unfullfilled, your leaders can snap their fingers and make you do anything they want for their amusment, you guys are weak, easily manipulated and without direction.
Both sides are idiots imho, carebears cry when their ship is killed, pvp'rs cry when miners complain about it. |
Khari Amoensis
ex 247 v. 01
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 20:08:00 -
[206] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Specifically, its a PVP sandbox.
Everything you do can be seen as a form of pvp, and that was a design principle behind the game(as stated in old interviews and such). The ONLY exception I can see is missions, and I saw it pointed out that missions make war on everyone else in the form of devaluing our money by creating more.
I am not telling you that you have to change your habits, but you have to accept that everything you do in EVE is a form of PVP if you want to not become hopelessly embittered by this game.
The point I was trying to make is that EVE is not a PVP game. Yes, it is PVP-centric, but it is not a PVP game even though the PVP aspect is prevalent. That was all.
I absolutely have no problem with the amount of PVP currently present in the game. Hisec is actually quite safe as long as you're not being silly and especially as long as you don't **** off the wrong crowd.
At some point in the past I got my ship blown up because I ended up by curiosity in .4 from really a backwater system as in the .4 system I stepped into should have theoretically been empty. After I did my best to defend myself, the guy told me what I was doing wrong and even offered to contract me a nice little cruiser as a replacement for the exact type I lost.
Woe me! The contract was in a .4 system again, but the nooblet in me didn't figure that out until I found myself podded.
Still, it didn't bother me at all. That was the only time I got killed and it was mostly because I was to new/stupid to figure out what I was supposed to do.
So, bottom line is that I don't get fussed at all about how much PVP is in this game, but it somewhat annoys me that people label EVE as a PVP game. I mean space is big, really big. And a half-decent pilot can sill make a good living if he ain't having a turnip for a brain and not making himself an easy target.
Also, mining needs to be re-vamped to make it more of a cooperative effort and definitely more engaging. We already have at least half the system in place with quite a load of lvl4 missions having huge roid field. That needs to be a tad more dynamic than clearing a mission and having people afk while they empty the roids. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 20:10:00 -
[207] - Quote
Information Agent wrote:There is so much 'I am elite because I pvp in my pixel spaceship' in here its actually giving me gas.
Everything in this game is pvp, even mining, even mission running, everyone is competing with someone on some level. Yet, just lately, the nullsec residents seem mad about something, so mad in fact, they are paying for people to gank in highsec outside of the normal operating window of hulkageddon.
Between watching the whines from highsec players, and seeing the nullsec pilots blabber on about ganking being the only way to remove miners from the game while trying desperately to not drop their juicebox's into their fathers laps, I have started to get annoyed at this to and fro.
Highsec guys - Stop mining in hulks or anything expensive, don't whine if you die, it happens. The extended hulkageddon wont last forever, and if it does then just do something else. At the very least, start stockpiling stuff, stop putting stuff into markets, starve the system. Just by all thats been made holey, please stop whining.
Nullsec guys- You are not fooling anybody, there is no 'elite pvp' in null only blobs, so why you think bringing your bull to highsec for the long term is a good idea for the game is frankly idiotic, its old, you're old, your alliances need to reset the neighbours up there is 'lawless blue null' rather than collectively hiding in each others underpants while screaming bloody murder through the zipper at carebears, and yeah you guys dont look very tough with a dong draped over one ear. Its not the bears fault you guys are frustrated and unfullfilled, your leaders can snap their fingers and make you do anything they want for their amusment, you guys are weak, easily manipulated and without direction.
Both sides are idiots imho, carebears cry when their ship is killed, pvp'rs cry when miners complain about it. Wow, u mad bro.
Also, I was involved in actually taking sov less than a month ago. Whats happening now is blowing off steam for alot of the troops. You know, some R&R between business? Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Khari Amoensis
ex 247 v. 01
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 20:11:00 -
[208] - Quote
Virgil Travis wrote:terrly bronks wrote:pvp'ers need to stay in 0.0 And now you're telling people where they can pvp, and you've obviously never heard of low sec at all have you?
Banning pvp-ers from hisec would be a huge mistake. I am a great believer in all things done with moderation. |
Little Brat
Four Gun
18
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 20:13:00 -
[209] - Quote
x It is the rule in war, if ten times the enemy's strength, surround them; if five times, attack them; if double, be able to divide them; if equal, engage them; if fewer, be able to evade them; if weaker, be able to avoid them. Sun Tzu, 6th Century BC-á |
Information Agent
Apparently Miners
63
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 20:15:00 -
[210] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote: Wow, u mad bro.
Also, I was involved in actually taking sov less than a month ago. Whats happening now is blowing off steam for alot of the troops. You know, some R&R between business?
Actually, yeah I'm mad as hell at pretty much everyone on all sides in this hulkageddon crap. :)
I know you said 'taking sov' as if to mean you were actively engaging a force of skilled pvp'rs with similar numbers, but what you should have said was "We were going into empty systems and structure grinding while unopposed."
The troops shouldn't really have too much steam collected yet, its not like they've actually had to htfu for anything lately is it. :) |
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Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 20:16:00 -
[211] - Quote
Khari Amoensis wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote:Specifically, its a PVP sandbox.
Everything you do can be seen as a form of pvp, and that was a design principle behind the game(as stated in old interviews and such). The ONLY exception I can see is missions, and I saw it pointed out that missions make war on everyone else in the form of devaluing our money by creating more.
I am not telling you that you have to change your habits, but you have to accept that everything you do in EVE is a form of PVP if you want to not become hopelessly embittered by this game. The point I was trying to make is that EVE is not a PVP game. Yes, it is PVP-centric, but it is not a PVP game even though the PVP aspect is prevalent. That was all. I absolutely have no problem with the amount of PVP currently present in the game. Hisec is actually quite safe as long as you're not being silly and especially as long as you don't **** off the wrong crowd. At some point in the past I got my ship blown up because I ended up by curiosity in .4 from really a backwater system as in the .4 system I stepped into should have theoretically been empty. After I did my best to defend myself, the guy told me what I was doing wrong and even offered to contract me a nice little cruiser as a replacement for the exact type I lost. Woe me! The contract was in a .4 system again, but the nooblet in me didn't figure that out until I found myself podded. Still, it didn't bother me at all. That was the only time I got killed and it was mostly because I was to new/stupid to figure out what I was supposed to do. So, bottom line is that I don't get fussed at all about how much PVP is in this game, but it somewhat annoys me that people label EVE as a PVP game. I mean space is big, really big. And a half-decent pilot can sill make a good living if he ain't having a turnip for a brain and not making himself an easy target. Also, mining needs to be re-vamped to make it more of a cooperative effort and definitely more engaging. We already have at least half the system in place with quite a load of lvl4 missions having huge roid field. That needs to be a tad more dynamic than clearing a mission and having people afk while they empty the roids. Name one thing in EVE that is not PVP. If you can name one other than ship spinning, you are wrong.
Also, I am not actually trying to say you specifically, more you generically to apply to anyone who needs to get that message. Its a detail that tends to get lost on forums, sorry if it should not have been directed at you.
Oh, and avoiding death is the wrong way to handle it. If you constantly try to avoid death, when it inevitably happens again(it will, thats is a fact of EVE) you will be alot more upset. Don't try to avoid dying, try to make sure that each death not only teaches you something, but also advances you closer to your goals. Don't avoid death, make your death worth something, or at least entertaining.
Plus, dying makes more sparklies in space, which is always good Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 20:18:00 -
[212] - Quote
Information Agent wrote:Tallian Saotome wrote: Wow, u mad bro.
Also, I was involved in actually taking sov less than a month ago. Whats happening now is blowing off steam for alot of the troops. You know, some R&R between business?
Actually, yeah I'm mad as hell at pretty much everyone on all sides in this hulkageddon crap. :) I know you said 'taking sov' as if to mean you were actively engaging a force of skilled pvp'rs with similar numbers, but what you should have said was "We were going into empty systems and structure grinding while unopposed." The troops shouldn't really have too much steam collected yet, its not like they've actually had to htfu for anything lately is it. :) I felt mildly opposed.
There wasn't alot of fight put up, but they tried.
And that was the end of 3 solid months of deployment, taking space from various people. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
463
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 20:33:00 -
[213] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Lots of anger surfacing there mate.
Hit a nerve, did he?? In my alliance (we live in wormholes and *love* it) we call it "FAP not NAP!" Friendly Aggression Pact vrs Non-Aggression Pact.
The way it works is this:
Today, we find each other and shoot each other in the face... Tomorrow, you call us (or we call you) and we band together to shoot someone else in the face... The Day After Tomorrow, we find each other and shoot each other in the face...
We also do PI, some light manufacturing, light invention, gas sucking and running sleeper sites... (PVE our asses off when the mood strikes us - much like most other WH/LOW/NULL sec corps as well).
TBQH, I see a lot of people complaining about hi-sec ganking/wars/what have you (and wanting to change "the game"), and another group complaining about people not leaving hi-sec (and wanting to change "the game"). The worst posters on both sides (and they are a minority) refuse to believe that the other "gets" anything.
The "carebear" crowd refuse to believe that "pvp'ers" (or null-sec'ers, or "pvp'ers) ever do invention, manufacturing or research... In fact, some of the best pvp'ers I know, do have manufacturing/research pos' scattered between hi-sec and low-sec... They also believe (from what I've read on the forums) that PVPers in Hi-sec ganking/pirating/wardec'ing haven't ever lived in low/null/wh's...
The "hard core pvp'ers" refuse to believe that anyone in the "carebear crowd" will get to a point where they want to leave hi-sec behind... And *I* am proof that *that* belief is wrong. Used to be a careiest of carebears. Also - Dr E showed in his last "state of the economy" message at fanfest, that people are moving around. But we are in the realm of the law of large numbers now "all changes will be gradual and small..."
Both groups are wrong about the other, but leave themselves no room to gain a greater understanding of each other. So, depending on who you answer (on the forums) yeah, you might get some anger back, because hard as it may be to believe, both groups care about the game. The greater the appreciation for their particular style of play, the greater the anger (from both!).
Malphilos wrote:Snot Shot wrote: At this point a majority of 0.0 Alliances have blued, NIP'ed, or NAP'ed each other so there is very little to do out there. To keep the Blue lists, NIP's, and NAP's going you need to supply the sheep something large enough to keep them occupied or they will start to fight with each other.
And they will start fighting one another, but in a controlled way and the worry about having something to do is very real. Someone posted a state of the alliance chat here a while ago that addressed that very issue as the primary concern. Most previous powerblocks have essentially died of boredom. The conundrum is that the CFC is untenable except as a whole, but as a whole it's dull as hell. "We won EVE" turns out not to be such an interesting outcome. Truer words were never spoken by an NPC posting alt...
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
740
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 20:41:00 -
[214] - Quote
What you guys apparently call a FAP, we call a NIP(No Infrastructure Agreement) where we shoot each other, but don't make war on each others structures, and have the diplomatic ties to ask for favors.
Then there is TEST, and the fact that they will randomly reset blues because they need more targets, but thats just alot of fun.
Never not reset TEST. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |
Khari Amoensis
ex 247 v. 01
3
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 20:42:00 -
[215] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Oh, and avoiding death is the wrong way to handle it. If you constantly try to avoid death, when it inevitably happens again(it will, thats is a fact of EVE) you will be alot more upset. Don't try to avoid dying, try to make sure that each death not only teaches you something, but also advances you closer to your goals. Don't avoid death, make your death worth something, or at least entertaining. Plus, dying makes more sparklies in space, which is always good
I'm not avoiding death... I just always make sure that I don't make myself a target or an easy target at that.
I don't have anything to lose by dying... I ain't got a 2bil ship fit and I never have transported billions in my indy ships. What I do is not make it worth while to get the ship recycled ... that's just by reflex:)
And yeh, I am definitely aware my ship can be blown up if a group of people would decide to. That's why I'm still playing EVE 5 years later. |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
463
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 20:53:00 -
[216] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:Couldn't the hours of grinding that is associated with a hi-sec play style be the cost? I admit that *is* a cost (of a kind) however, all the LP/Isk/Minerals go somewhere... and the second they do, they impact *everyone*, *everywhere*.
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Frederick Sanger
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
112
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 21:03:00 -
[217] - Quote
Hi-sec players are not hated because that would be like hating an NPC agent. |
Adelphie
Paradox Collective Choke Point
47
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 21:29:00 -
[218] - Quote
I'm quite a seasoned advocator of nullsec - does this mean I hate people who play in hi-sec? Absolutely not. I am, however, getting increasingly frustrated at the lack of "carrot" to try and get people to give null a go - getting people to move to null is the first step of reinvigorating the small gang pvp culture we've seen in this game in the past.
When I started out in the game people like me followed a similar path (aka Adelphie's 7 step plan to enlightenment):
1) Move to nullsec to make more money. 2) Get killed by griefer, pirate or roaming gang 3) Get killed by griefer, pirate or roaming gang 4) Get killed by griefer, pirate or roaming gang 5) Get fed up of being killed by griefer, pirate or roaming gang 6) Try and fail to kill griefer, pirate or roaming gang 7) Get the shakes and realise that pvp is actually really good fun
What I'm trying to say is that people don't think "hmmmm i've been doing lvl4's for 6 months. I'm going to move to null and shoot someone in the face". People move to null because there was the carrot of more isk, at the risk of more chance of death. The fact people get forced into pvp makes some (by all means not all) people try a game style out that they wouldn't normally get to do.
At the moment the carrot to move to null and try new things has diminished, so people never even get to point 1 on the above. This directly impacts the enjoyment of the game for people like me, as there are less faces to shoot and tears to harvest. CCP need to find more ways of enticing people to nullsec, starting with (imo) mining changes.
To quote the poet Ice-T - Don't hate the player, hate the game. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1563
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 21:43:00 -
[219] - Quote
Information Agent wrote:There is so much 'I am elite because I pvp in my pixel spaceship' in here its actually giving me gas.
Everything in this game is pvp, even mining, even mission running, everyone is competing with someone on some level. Yet, just lately, the nullsec residents seem mad about something, so mad in fact, they are paying for people to gank in highsec outside of the normal operating window of hulkageddon.
Between watching the whines from highsec players, and seeing the nullsec pilots blabber on about ganking being the only way to remove miners from the game while trying desperately to not drop their juicebox's into their fathers laps, I have started to get annoyed at this to and fro.
Highsec guys - Stop mining in hulks or anything expensive, don't whine if you die, it happens. The extended hulkageddon wont last forever, and if it does then just do something else. At the very least, start stockpiling stuff, stop putting stuff into markets, starve the system. Just by all thats been made holey, please stop whining.
Nullsec guys- You are not fooling anybody, there is no 'elite pvp' in null only blobs, so why you think bringing your bull to highsec for the long term is a good idea for the game is frankly idiotic, its old, you're old, your alliances need to reset the neighbours up there in 'lawless blue null' rather than collectively hiding in each others underpants while screaming bloody murder through the zipper at carebears, and yeah you guys dont look very tough with a dong draped over one ear. Its not the bears fault you guys are frustrated and unfullfilled, your leaders can snap their fingers and make you do anything they want for their amusment, you guys are weak, easily manipulated and without direction.
Both sides are idiots imho, carebears cry when their ship is killed, pvp'rs cry when miners complain about it.
10/10
rather than collectively hiding in each others underpants while screaming bloody murder through the zipper at carebears
This is gold.
The list in the previous post was not complete. Here is the complete list:
1) Move to nullsec to make more money. 2) Get killed by griefer, pirate or roaming gang 3) Get killed by griefer, pirate or roaming gang 4) Get killed by griefer, pirate or roaming gang 5) Get fed up of being killed by griefer, pirate or roaming gang 6) Try and fail to kill griefer, pirate or roaming gang 7) Get the shakes and realise that pvp is actually really good fun 8) Run out of ISK and end up back in high sec to grind for more ISK. 9)Lose track of how much ISK is enough, and get confused by changing prices. 10) Also have second thoughts about skills - were they right the last time? 11) Frustration on wanting to go back but not wanting to have to come back to highsec means more ISK is needed. 12) Become a raging ISK-snatcher engaging in the ISK fountain of the month so much that you rage if something gets nerfed or a change is proposed. 13) Contemplate getting a second account or buying a char to PVP while grinding ISK with the main in high sec. 14) Give up all work and relationships in RL to play the game 16 hours a day running two chars.
Ah forget it I can do this all day. |
Spineker
161
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 21:57:00 -
[220] - Quote
Inappropriate post removed. Spitfire |
|
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
463
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 21:57:00 -
[221] - Quote
Spikeflach wrote:Stop with the immunity from interference thing, the people arguing against the ideas are making that up.
The problem is not that the tank reduces yield, the problem is that it is still easily gankable even with the max tank.
mining mission sites is kind of worthless most the time, grav sites are few and far between.
Why use a ship not designed for your purpose. Mining ships were created ot do just that.
People do play at the keyboard while mining. Problem is knowing the 5 npc alts in your system that were created a week earlier as being suicide gankers. How you get that kind of intel in that amount of time boggles me.
Hi-sec is for learning eve, but the 0.0 entities force people who want to play the game as they choose to stay in hi sec. So what can they do but take advantage of hi sec to the fullest potential they can. Or maybe the players are willing to change eve so people actually "graduate" from hi sec?
Ganking has been nerfed at least three times I can think of off the top of my head (two Concord response time tweeks and the removal of insurance payouts if concord is on the KM, I believe). So people are doing *exactly* as expected when the response times of concord were beefed up in the past couple of years. Asking for more "tweeks" to make ganking "harder". It's been made harder. (Full disclosure: Destroyers were beefed up and T3 BC's were introduced - but those aren't *specific* to ganking - concord response time and insurance nerfs were).
Tanking reducing yield *has* been talked about (in some of the recent threads) as reasons "against" ganking.
Mining Mission sites / Grav sites can yield good ore, and at least for missions, there is a limitless supply...
Why use a ship not designed for your purpose? O.o "To keep from being blown up"? My Rokh is a *great* mining ship, with a 114K EHP buffer tank... And resists approaching 80% across the board. What I "lose" in ship selection, I more than make up for in security...
Go check the hulkageddon killboard... LOTS of mains there... Not everyone ganks with an alt... Take me for example... (Full Disclosure: ADHC doesn't condone ganking in Hi-sec, we prefer our pilots gank in our connecting wormholes, low-sec or null). ;..;
Hi-sec isn't *just* for learning eve, LOTS of things to do there (exploration/Trade) that can be done very lucratively . . .
But, how would you "graduate" someone from Hi-Sec?
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
717
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 21:59:00 -
[222] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:Full Disclosure: ADHC doesn't condone ganking in Hi-sec, we prefer our pilots gank in our connecting wormholes, low-sec or null
~honoure~ eh |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
463
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 23:25:00 -
[223] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Asuri Kinnes wrote:Full Disclosure: ADHC doesn't condone ganking in Hi-sec, we prefer our pilots gank in our connecting wormholes, low-sec or null ~honoure~ Nope - just no reason to really.
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
381
|
Posted - 2012.05.31 23:31:00 -
[224] - Quote
I'll field the question in the OP.
Highsec players if played smartly can swim around in riches, reap all the rewards of those riches, while not really feeling the effects any of the entropy that drives the economy.
In a nutshell. |
iownuall123
TRITANIUM MAFIA
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 00:24:00 -
[225] - Quote
While at first I was against this whole permanent hulkageddon thing, and righteously defended highsec dwellers (since I was one) I see now that's it's a good thing. Now, while I don't like to see people get ganked, it teaches them a valuable lesson about eve, that highsec is just as dangerous as living in lowsec, and if you don't believe so, just look at all the people getting ganked. They're regular loot pinatas. Like it or not, highsec ganking has become a profession, and you can either change your playstyle now or later, but the latter will be more costly. Highsec gankers won't be as prevalent if you don't give them a reason to gank you. Start tanking your ships, start baiting people, or, as they suggest, move out of highsec to low or null. Don't like that? Move to wormholes like I did, it's more rewarding than highsec but safer than living in nullsec, it's more of a stepping stone to greater things. The real heart of eve lies beyond the screen of highsec. All the news you hear about eve isn't about carebears (yes, I said it, carebears) that grind missions all day for no risk, it's about all the wars in nullsec and what they do to influence the game. At the end of the day, who will make the news, you whining about being ganked, or the person who paid the ganker? Highsec is more of a hold-your-hand tutorial zone that has been too safe for too long. In the end, if highsec dwellers don't move with the times, they will either be turned to dust or will simply give up and unsub. It's your choice as a capsuleer, do you choose greatness, or oblivion? |
Wilma Lawson
Hedion University Amarr Empire
62
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 00:28:00 -
[226] - Quote
Basically, it's jealousy. A drummed up vision of high sec carebears swimming in riches, mocking those PvPers because they aren't tanking their ships they way the PvPers want them to.
Some people have nothing better to do than to spread hate and distractions, so that the real drama behind the scenes play out. All these people coming out and spreading that hate and vitriol - tools. Every last one of them. |
Wilma Lawson
Hedion University Amarr Empire
62
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 00:29:00 -
[227] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:I'll field the question in the OP.
Highsec players if played smartly can swim around in riches, reap all the rewards of those riches, while not really feeling the effects any of the entropy that drives the economy.
In a nutshell. Yes. I'm swimming in my riches right now. ISK is flowing all around me. Are you feeling pathetic yet? You should. I have mind control. I have power. You have none!
Rejoice! |
iownuall123
TRITANIUM MAFIA
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 01:00:00 -
[228] - Quote
Every highsec dweller out there will finally reach the point where they come to this realization; Ok, I have all this money, all these assets, and I continue to amass both day by day, but now that I have all this, what do I do with it? All the goons are doing is accelerating this process. Eventually every ship you own will get blown up, the only thing you can do to protect your assets is not to play, and if you're going to risk those assets, would you rather die to a ganker in a blaze of tears, or are you going to die in a blaze of glory either going on a suicide run to lowsec (and having much more fun in the process) or find a group of people to roam with and do more than just shoot floating rocks and NPC's? |
Cloned S0ul
Blood Fanatics
104
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 02:27:00 -
[229] - Quote
Every good mmo need pve aspects, MMO without pve become pvp arcade ****.
Without all those standings acording to pve npc corporatios, jita, miners, mission runers etc, eve become instant pvp serwer with empty space, game like in sisi serwer, just buy ship for 100 isk instal t2 rigs for 100isk and do pew pew whole day. Belive me or not people get bored after stupid instant pvp and they leave serwer.
Personaly i wont pay for eve if ccp remove pve, because economy and serwer die, but some pvpr nerds cant understand this.
Some people need to understad eve exist becuse pve! all manufacture is about pve and grind, witout this you newer got abbility to bulid titans, run pos, outpost etc.
How about all those pro pvpr who siting in bilions worth tengus fited with bil worth modules? Yesss all thse dead space and oficer module are for free, and never before belnog to carebear who run plexes...
How meny of you hipocrits who hate crarebears using faction ships and espetialy faction cap boosters in pvp? oh wait here is faction bpo on makret and faction lp are for free. |
Kimmi Chan
Perkone Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 04:24:00 -
[230] - Quote
Cloned S0ul wrote:Personaly i wont pay for eve if ccp remove pve, because economy and serwer die, but some pvpr nerds cant understand this.
Some people need to understad eve exist becuse pve! all manufacture is about pve and grind, witout this you newer got abbility to bulid titans, run pos, outpost etc.
How about all those pro pvpr who siting in bilions worth tengus fited with bil worth modules? Yesss all thse dead space and oficer module are for free, and never before belnog to carebear who run plexes...
How meny of you hipocrits who hate crarebears using faction ships and espetialy faction cap boosters in pvp? oh wait here is faction bpo on makret and faction lp are for free.
I do not see anyone championing a cessation or elimination of PVE. What I do see is a lot of people making demands to change the game to make it safer to mine. If you want to blame someone for the current suicide ganking trend, blame the miners that came before you.
A lot of people bitching that the gankers risk only a 2m Catalyst. The suicide gank boat of choice used to be the Brutix but high sec miners raised such ire that the insurance payouts were completely removed. So what did the suicide gankers do? They adapted. They evolved. They found a way to operate within the existing game mechanics by using a less expensive ship and have been wildly successful. So much so that they have again raised the ire of the high sec miners who once again are here bitching instead of finding their own way to adapt and evolve.
The low risk of the Catalyst FOTM gank boat was brought about as a direct result of high sec miners bitching. Yet, just as the miner who fit for max yield instead of fitting tank, you don't learn the lesson to stop bitching. It is only going to **** you in the end.
Intelligence shouldn't be free. by Mors Sanctitatis |
|
Spineker
161
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 04:26:00 -
[231] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Cloned S0ul wrote:Personaly i wont pay for eve if ccp remove pve, because economy and serwer die, but some pvpr nerds cant understand this.
Some people need to understad eve exist becuse pve! all manufacture is about pve and grind, witout this you newer got abbility to bulid titans, run pos, outpost etc.
How about all those pro pvpr who siting in bilions worth tengus fited with bil worth modules? Yesss all thse dead space and oficer module are for free, and never before belnog to carebear who run plexes...
How meny of you hipocrits who hate crarebears using faction ships and espetialy faction cap boosters in pvp? oh wait here is faction bpo on makret and faction lp are for free. I do not see anyone championing a cessation or elimination of PVE. What I do see is a lot of people making demands to change the game to make it safer to mine. If you want to blame someone for the current suicide ganking trend, blame the miners that came before you. A lot of people bitching that the gankers risk only a 2m Catalyst. The suicide gank boat of choice used to be the Brutix but high sec miners raised such ire that the insurance payouts were completely removed. So what did the suicide gankers do? They adapted. They evolved. They found a way to operate within the existing game mechanics by using a less expensive ship and have been wildly successful. So much so that they have again raised the ire of the high sec miners who once again are here bitching instead of finding their own way to adapt and evolve. The low risk of the Catalyst FOTM gank boat was brought about as a direct result of high sec miners bitching. Yet, just as the miner who fit for max yield instead of fitting tank, you don't learn the lesson to stop bitching. It is only going to **** you in the end.
Wow you sound whiny. Hope you get totally ganked raped and stuffed over a fire today. |
Nexus Day
Republic University Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 04:48:00 -
[232] - Quote
When you start to complain about the "overwhelming influx" of any type of player you are kind of missing the boat.
Successful MMO's allow for all playstyles. PvP centric MMO's, in general, fail in the market. So do you want a niche game that never grows or do you want a game that caters to all playstyles that continues to add subs while still letting you enjoy the playstyle you enjoy?
|
Kimmi Chan
Perkone Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 04:50:00 -
[233] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:When you start to complain about the "overwhelming influx" of any type of player you are kind of missing the boat.
Successful MMO's allow for all playstyles. PvP centric MMO's, in general, fail in the market. So do you want a niche game that never grows or do you want a game that caters to all playstyles that continues to add subs while still letting you enjoy the playstyle you enjoy?
9 years...
EDIT: And who doesn't enjoy their own play style? If their still paying for the game and not enjoying it well that's just dumb... Intelligence shouldn't be free. by Mors Sanctitatis |
Nexus Day
Republic University Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 04:59:00 -
[234] - Quote
Kimmi Chan wrote:Nexus Day wrote:When you start to complain about the "overwhelming influx" of any type of player you are kind of missing the boat.
Successful MMO's allow for all playstyles. PvP centric MMO's, in general, fail in the market. So do you want a niche game that never grows or do you want a game that caters to all playstyles that continues to add subs while still letting you enjoy the playstyle you enjoy?
9 years....
Which makes me think you think this is a PVP centric game. It isn't. It is an economic centric game with PvP thrown in for giggles. Or do heads of major corps with 40 gajillion skill points still fly around in frigates?
|
Kimmi Chan
Perkone Caldari State
62
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 05:07:00 -
[235] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Successful MMO's allow for all playstyles. PvP centric MMO's, in general, fail in the market. So do you want a niche game that never grows or do you want a game that caters to all playstyles that continues to add subs while still letting you enjoy the playstyle you enjoy?
Nexus Day wrote:Which makes me think you think this is a PVP centric game. It isn't. It is an economic centric game with PvP thrown in for giggles. Or do heads of major corps with 40 gajillion skill points still fly around in frigates?
Well if PvP Centric MMO's, in general, fail in the market AND Eve is not a PVP centric game but instead is an economic centric game I guess that explains why it has been successful for nine years and there is no need to make any changes to that model. I could not be in more agreement with you. Intelligence shouldn't be free. by Mors Sanctitatis |
Leetha Layne
44
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 05:14:00 -
[236] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem?
2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
Most of my hostility is due to their forum posts. In fact, like this thread. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
880
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 05:28:00 -
[237] - Quote
Cloned S0ul wrote:Every good mmo need pve aspects, MMO without pve become pvp arcade ****.
Without all those standings acording to pve npc corporatios, jita, miners, mission runers etc, eve become instant pvp serwer with empty space, game like in sisi serwer, just buy ship for 100 isk instal t2 rigs for 100isk and do pew pew whole day. Belive me or not people get bored after stupid instant pvp and they leave serwer.
Personaly i wont pay for eve if ccp remove pve, because economy and serwer die, but some pvpr nerds cant understand this.
Some people need to understad eve exist becuse pve! all manufacture is about pve and grind, witout this you newer got abbility to bulid titans, run pos, outpost etc.
How about all those pro pvpr who siting in bilions worth tengus fited with bil worth modules? Yesss all thse dead space and oficer module are for free, and never before belnog to carebear who run plexes...
How meny of you hipocrits who hate crarebears using faction ships and espetialy faction cap boosters in pvp? oh wait here is faction bpo on makret and faction lp are for free.
You are the only one talking about "PVE vs PVP". This thread is about high security space players.
Everybody does both PVE and PVP in EVE, it's a virtual world ffs.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
880
|
Posted - 2012.06.01 05:30:00 -
[238] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote: Which makes me think you think this is a PVP centric game. It isn't. It is an economic centric game with PvP thrown in for giggles. Or do heads of major corps with 40 gajillion skill points still fly around in frigates?
Yes they do, why not? Frigates are fun, and CEOs are quite probably guys who love this game, and want to have fun playing it.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Shivaitee
Mahasutra Mining Corp
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 17:14:00 -
[239] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Mr Kidd wrote:It's not hate. It's the school bully who steals your lunch money because he can and noone in authority will do anything about it. That is what is going on here. And it's an encouraged behaviour by the game mechanics in high sec. But seems Icelandic dictionary can't make the difference in between grieffing/bullying already so, we have to deal wiz it.
I totally agree with you on this, I truly think this hate against those who want to play peacefully is pathological and as an adult I consider it "ciber-bully" in a form as it involves attacks or violence in an area where security is "supposed" to be safe as per the game design, thus, I consider highsec attacks, ganks, or whatever even forum attacks to be "illegal" when it comes to the mental stress it causes on other human beings behind the keyboard, specially on kids playing the game after all..
For this reasons I think the game or at least high sector area of the game should be restricted to these bullies who think is fun to kill other w/o any response. This attitude and behavior of hate and aggression w/o reason, just for grief, fun or any other "absurd ideas" only shows me how depressed and psychotic they should be in their own life.
I truly believe ciber-bully at ALL levels... not only in facebook, myspace, and/or even games should be a matter to legally investigate and be stop and penalized once and for all. CCP is the only authority in the game, not the players, not the alliances, not the corps, not these "goons-bullies" or anyone else who think they are better than anyone. They should be punished one way or another. One way to me is... to move on anti-cyberbully laws and make legal authorities punish ciber-bullying at all levels thru legal "REAL - NOT GAME" (I meant prosecution) actions and once and for all, this will force CCP to exercise caution towards this matter making the game safer for those who dont want to see this kind of bully behavior.
I do not believe it is a way of a game to sponsor violence, specially when it was designed with secure areas, so, as a conclusion i think if CCP does not listen to players, they should listen to legal authorities and law enforcement, otherwise I see -as things are in this country (US) with the bullying matter- I see CCP facing legal lawsuits from parents in the future. Not only that, game population shortage.
Im not against PVP, I'm in favor of it, but ONLY with consent. Myself, I love mining, and exploring.. I'm an adult and I can't still understand why, if I pay I have to be interrupted just because of someone's else psychotic mentality to kill, i trully believe this to be wrong and it should be stop one way or another. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
349
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 17:18:00 -
[240] - Quote
Spineker wrote:Kimmi Chan wrote:Cloned S0ul wrote:Personaly i wont pay for eve if ccp remove pve, because economy and serwer die, but some pvpr nerds cant understand this.
Some people need to understad eve exist becuse pve! all manufacture is about pve and grind, witout this you newer got abbility to bulid titans, run pos, outpost etc.
How about all those pro pvpr who siting in bilions worth tengus fited with bil worth modules? Yesss all thse dead space and oficer module are for free, and never before belnog to carebear who run plexes...
How meny of you hipocrits who hate crarebears using faction ships and espetialy faction cap boosters in pvp? oh wait here is faction bpo on makret and faction lp are for free. I do not see anyone championing a cessation or elimination of PVE. What I do see is a lot of people making demands to change the game to make it safer to mine. If you want to blame someone for the current suicide ganking trend, blame the miners that came before you. A lot of people bitching that the gankers risk only a 2m Catalyst. The suicide gank boat of choice used to be the Brutix but high sec miners raised such ire that the insurance payouts were completely removed. So what did the suicide gankers do? They adapted. They evolved. They found a way to operate within the existing game mechanics by using a less expensive ship and have been wildly successful. So much so that they have again raised the ire of the high sec miners who once again are here bitching instead of finding their own way to adapt and evolve. The low risk of the Catalyst FOTM gank boat was brought about as a direct result of high sec miners bitching. Yet, just as the miner who fit for max yield instead of fitting tank, you don't learn the lesson to stop bitching. It is only going to **** you in the end. Wow you sound whiny. Hope you get totally ganked raped and stuffed over a fire today.
Issues ?
Tal
|
|
Damitrius
Super Massive Logistics
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:35:00 -
[241] - Quote
I am a high-sec carebear type. I mine, haul, and trade pretty much the entire time I play. The few times I've been ganked, I didn't whine, in fact I usually talk to the ganker and ask them for tips on how I could avoid a similar incident. Generally they are happy to help, I assume since most people they gank just get mad at them and whine. I just have a positive conversation, try to learn something new, and wish them the best of luck in their future endeavors. With that being said, I can't help but feel that there are tons of players who feel I am playing Eve the wrong way because I don't go out and shoot people. |
Disregard That
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:37:00 -
[242] - Quote
Damitrius wrote:I am a high-sec carebear type. I mine, haul, and trade pretty much the entire time I play. The few times I've been ganked, I didn't whine, in fact I usually talk to the ganker and ask them for tips on how I could avoid a similar incident. Generally they are happy to help, I assume since most people they gank just get mad at them and whine. I just have a positive conversation, try to learn something new, and wish them the best of luck in their future endeavors. With that being said, I can't help but feel that there are tons of players who feel I am playing Eve the wrong way because I don't go out and shoot people. Maybe they do. What's it to you?
Sandbox.
At the end of the day you aren't a whiner about it. +1 for you. |
Damitrius
Super Massive Logistics
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:46:00 -
[243] - Quote
Disregard That wrote:Damitrius wrote:I am a high-sec carebear type. I mine, haul, and trade pretty much the entire time I play. The few times I've been ganked, I didn't whine, in fact I usually talk to the ganker and ask them for tips on how I could avoid a similar incident. Generally they are happy to help, I assume since most people they gank just get mad at them and whine. I just have a positive conversation, try to learn something new, and wish them the best of luck in their future endeavors. With that being said, I can't help but feel that there are tons of players who feel I am playing Eve the wrong way because I don't go out and shoot people. Maybe they do. What's it to you? Sandbox. At the end of the day you aren't a whiner about it. +1 for you.
Fair enough, haters are gonna hate, whiners are gonna whine. Not a whole lot any of us can do about it I suppose. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7727
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:54:00 -
[244] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Which makes me think you think this is a PVP centric game. It isn't. It is an economic centric game GǪwhich means it's a PvP-centric game since the entire economy is founded on a PvP market, which is supplied by a PvP industry that responds to a PvP-generated demand.
There is next to zero PvE, and what there is is purely incidental and just thrown in for giggles.
So you got that pretty much 100% backwards.
GǪoh, and yes, of course CEOs fly around in frigates. Why on earth shouldn't they? EVE isn't one of those fundamentally flawed games where bigger is better, after all. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
83
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 20:08:00 -
[245] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Nexus Day wrote:Which makes me think you think this is a PVP centric game. It isn't. It is an economic centric game GǪwhich means it's a PvP-centric game since the entire economy is founded on a PvP market, which is supplied by a PvP industry that responds to a PvP-generated demand. There is next to zero PvE, and what there is is purely incidental and just thrown in for giggles. So you got that pretty much 100% backwards. GǪoh, and yes, of course CEOs fly around in frigates. Why on earth shouldn't they? EVE isn't one of those fundamentally flawed games where bigger is better, after all.
I personally think you're both wrong. The economy is driven by both PvE and PvP. I lost 3 ships on my alt, no PvP involved, and I eneded up buy 3 ships off the market that other players made.
I don' think it's fare to say that the game is either PvP or PvE centric.
It's a sandbox, that means it's whatever it is to you and whatever it is to me, and we may both have a different view of what the game revolves around based on how we play in the sandbox. Neither of us would be right, and both of us would more then likely be wrong.
It's kid of the point of a sandbox. |
Kyle Myr
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
242
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Posted - 2012.06.06 21:16:00 -
[246] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Tippia wrote:Nexus Day wrote:Which makes me think you think this is a PVP centric game. It isn't. It is an economic centric game GǪwhich means it's a PvP-centric game since the entire economy is founded on a PvP market, which is supplied by a PvP industry that responds to a PvP-generated demand. There is next to zero PvE, and what there is is purely incidental and just thrown in for giggles. So you got that pretty much 100% backwards. GǪoh, and yes, of course CEOs fly around in frigates. Why on earth shouldn't they? EVE isn't one of those fundamentally flawed games where bigger is better, after all. I personally think you're both wrong. The economy is driven by both PvE and PvP. I lost 3 ships on my alt, no PvP involved, and I eneded up buy 3 ships off the market that other players made. I don' think it's fare to say that the game is either PvP or PvE centric. It's a sandbox, that means it's whatever it is to you and whatever it is to me, and we may both have a different view of what the game revolves around based on how we play in the sandbox. Neither of us would be right, and both of us would more then likely be wrong. It's kid of the point of a sandbox.
This misses what the concept of 'the market is PvP' means -
When people say the market is PvP, it doesn't necessarily refer to the fact that demand is driven by PvP losses. It refers to the fact that when you buy or sell something, your order's price is competing against other players' buy or sell order prices, and not an NPC baseline price. |
Elessa Enaka
State War Academy Caldari State
91
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 21:19:00 -
[247] - Quote
Drei Ontalas wrote:1. In these forums there appears to be this notion that Hi-sec players should move (by force or encouragement) to lower-sec space. Why?
If a player is happy mining scordite in 1.0 space why is that a problem? If a player like to sit in Jita making trades why is that a problem? If a player prefers to do hi-sec missions what is the problem?
2. I am genuinely interested in establishing where/how the hostility towards hi-sec comes from. From my admittedly limitedly experience it seems so come down to the EVE equivalent of "Mommy he won't play with me! Make him!"
Am I completely off the mark?
It is because the asshats have driven off everyone in low and 0.0 and they need more victims. Where do they get these victims? High-sec of course. They can either come to lower sec space to be victims or the asshats will come to high-sec and victimize them (while being paid by Goons too). Devour to survive, so it is, so it's always been Eve is a great game if you can get past all of the asshats.... |
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