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Zach 101
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Posted - 2009.08.24 01:40:00 -
[91]
just send me the pictures
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari Annihilate. Avarice.
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Posted - 2009.08.24 01:43:00 -
[92]
You should do a Chimera instead. It's far sexier and might actually float (though be a little heavy towards the front, hopefully not flip over)
- Malyutka (The Virus) - |
ADMR Hikari
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Posted - 2009.08.24 01:50:00 -
[93]
Edited by: ADMR Hikari on 24/08/2009 01:51:22 Edited by: ADMR Hikari on 24/08/2009 01:50:44
Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Originally by: ADMR Hikari Really give me some proof why it would be so horrible?
Bricks don't float.
Hello skimmer, thanks, come again.
"As far as Beam goes do you want BOA or BWL, either way the underside of the ship is going to be a bit different than a regular Rokh, if you try to make one as it is it would be top heavy so you couldn't get it to go very fast for fear of falling to either side. So to fix that it basically will be the hull of a similar sized ship on the underside while having the same topside look of the Rokh.
So to imagine it, look at the in-game preview of the ship, see the thin deck that protrudes from the outside and the bridge connects to? I think that if you make a bulbous hull based on the dimensions of that deck piece it should maintain stability, but for safety I will still add in the stab unit on the bottom.
With ballast tanks being in the bulbous section or Bulge space, you could maintain it's displacement more easily by either filling up the tanks to increase it's Draft or emptying them if in shallow waters. this is something a lot of larger ships do, most tankers have these ballasts for just this use."
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ADMR Hikari
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Posted - 2009.08.24 01:54:00 -
[94]
Originally by: RabbidFerret This is an awesomely ambitious idea. But I cringe when I think of the sports cars that you could buy with $400,000 USD instead.
Yea 1 Aston Martin DB9 lol
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Nai Ling
Amarr Middle Finger Technology
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Posted - 2009.08.24 03:00:00 -
[95]
Why not just build a Proteus instead? It would have a better chance at floating...
... and if it sank, you could claim skill loss to the insurance company.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.08.24 03:37:00 -
[96]
Absolutely not a boat expert but wouldn't fiberglass/wood for the top structure fix the top heavy problem and be cheaper and easier to construct?
I also recommend contacting shipyards how much manhour they put into a 60m ship, triple it because you're learning on the job, triple it again because you're working solo and triple it a third time for good measure. Divide by your estimated yearly time spend on it and see if it's still within a human lifespan. Assume a 20 year period with little work because the family is nagging for time or said family has divorced you and all money is heading towards alimony and child support.
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Simeon Tor
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Posted - 2009.08.24 04:23:00 -
[97]
Originally by: ADMR Hikari Hah railguns... as for the C-105 gas turbine. It is a USAF aircraft engine, they are mothballed in great numbers in AZ. as for the drake yes it would work but I wanted something that would stand out.
Stand out you say.. yeah, I don't think there are that many people out on the water with Eve themed boats.
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F'nog
Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Slightly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.24 04:55:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Kolatha I personally think a Drake would probably translate better to an irl yacht. It would make for a great looking cat.
The US actually has a stealth warship prototype similar to a Drake. It was sort of portrayed in "The World Is Enough" or whatever the second Bond film with Pierce Bronsan was. The one with Michelle Yeoh.
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
F'nog for Amarr Emperor. Nuff said
Originally by: Chribba Go F'nog! You're a hero! Not a Zero! /me bows
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Aluin Chaput
Caldari Mort's Navy
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Posted - 2009.08.24 05:55:00 -
[99]
One: Make me a Chimera yacht.
Two: Nice idea.
Three: Whom is brave enough to sail an Avatar yacht?
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.08.24 06:32:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Sera Ryskin on 24/08/2009 06:32:14
Originally by: ADMR Hikari Seriously though, I don't see how it's such a "stupid" idea. Really give me some proof why it would be so horrible? while taking in everything from all the previous posts, actually read it. I'm guessing at least 70% of the people on the forums just skim posts hence why I have had to restate things various times.
Fine, you want reasons?
1) You are pricing your absurd idea at the cost of the raw materials, and ignoring the staggering labor costs involved. Forget your "a few friends to help", at that size you're going to have to hire a hell of a lot of professional labor, pay for drydock space, etc.
2) You are attempting to build a 60m ship without specialized ship-building facilities (hint: how exactly are you going to turn the raw materials into the parts you need?). And if you think you can just do it in your back yard, you might want to look up what happens when you fail to properly heat-treat steel. And good luck doing it right for a 60m hull frame without the specialized equipment.
3) You are attempting to build a 60m ship without significant engineering experience. Just what exactly do you plan to do when your ship snaps in half in the middle of the ocean because you didn't get the math right? Pray that by some miracle there's a rescue ship in range to save you before you drown and/or freeze to death?
4) You are attempting to power your ship with a jet engine. Not only will you probably break it (likely in some very dramatic and lethal way, as something fails under massive stress cycles at thousands of RPM, and I really doubt you have the specialized tools to check for material flaws or the engineering knowledge to design it right in the first place), but putting that much raw power on a shape as inefficient as a Rokh is pretty ****ing stupid even if you somehow did it successfully. All you will succeed in doing is burning insane amounts of fuel.
5) You think that a 14" "prototype" is anything even remotely resembling a sane first step. Hint: you start with computer models and vast amounts of design work (hope you like math!), then small-scale test models (hint: think 1-2" long) to verify your computer models, THEN you might think about something as big as 14".
Doing it your way, if you are very, very lucky you will spend millions of dollars on this project, produce something that is ugly as hell, and it will sink the moment you try to put in the water, therefore preventing any innocent people from trusting your creation and getting killed when it inevitably fails. ==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.08.24 06:42:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Sera Ryskin on 24/08/2009 06:43:16 If you are absolutely serious about this project, here is a better plan:
1) Get money. LOTS of money. As I said, it's not just about raw materials, and you might as well find out right up front that there's no way in hell you can afford to do it.
2) Get an engineering degree (or multiple degrees) and/or give a lot of money to a team of licensed engineers to do your design work for you. I don't know exactly what you would need to do it safely, but mechanical engineering would probably be a good start, and that means 4-5 years of HARD work at a university. Expect brutally hard classes with minimal room for error, tons of math and physics, and a long time invested in the basic fundamentals before you even get to start on doing the fun stuff.
3) Spend a huge amount of time building more basic designs. Start with very basic kit designs (sell them at the end to recover some costs), then work your way up through larger and more complex kits, then eventually your own basic designs, then finally more complex designs of your own.
4) Start working on the Rokh design, consulting experts as required. Start with computer models, then work your way up through test prototypes. Learn from your experience in the previous step, so that you might actually produce blueprints that are useful for something other than toilet paper.
5) Give a lot of money to a legitimate shipyard to build it for you. Forget about doing it yourself, there's absolutely no way you can safely build a ship that big with just you and a few friends, and absolutely zero chance you can get the required tools and facilities to even think about it.
Forget 10-15 years, if you're lucky you might get to see it finished before you die. But let's be realistic, you aren't going to spend that much time and money on building a ship from a video game you'll have forgotten long before you ever get to a point where building your project would be even remotely safe or practical.
Alternatively, buy a barge with sufficient maximum load, build a Rokh-shaped model on top of it, and don't take it anywhere near the open ocean. On a calm lake, it would probably be relatively safe as long as you do at least the basic research on how to build it properly. It'll be expensive, but at least you'll just be an eccentric formerly-rich guy, not the idiot who earned a Darwin award in a very expensive way. ==========
Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
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Trade Brah
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Posted - 2009.08.24 06:46:00 -
[102]
dear god, why the rokh
dirty caldari pigdog creation |
Kyreax
Neuronix
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Posted - 2009.08.24 07:11:00 -
[103]
Well, I live right next to the AMARC DRMO in Tucson. I love all the scrap they have lying around for sale!
However - you might want to consider an already floating hull to build you rokh top onto.
You know, a drydocked decrepit old piece that someone will probably give you so they don't have to pay storage fees anymore. Then, presto, no engineering to guess out, just build the top over the waterline to look like a Rokh.
There ya go. Cheap, floats, actually stable and has real engines to propel it. The Turbines could be for that extra "oomph" and for show.
I like your plan. Most of our best layman-engineered products came from dreamers like you that weren't afraid to think waaaaay outside the box. ---------------------------------------------------
It's a Templar, an Amarr Fighter used by Carriers. |
Zed Jackelope
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.08.24 07:25:00 -
[104]
Originally by: ADMR Hikari my grandpa is the only one that thinks it will float so long as I use a schooner type stabilizer fin on the bottom to minimize the chance of capsizing & using ballast tanks in between the outer 1/4" steel plating on the bottom and the inner aluminum infrastructure also while using steel for the initial frame and bulkheads.
as long as it displaces its weight in water, before it submerges, it will float. boats 101. i've seen boats made out of concrete so this isn't an issue.
oh.. and it should be water tight, of course.
your biggest problem will be hydrodynamics. if you build it exactly to spec, the portions underwater will slow it down tremendously and possibly give it handling problems.
there are currently ship building CAD programs that will allow you to simulate what a Rokh built out of steel and dropped in a pond would look like. How it would act under water, if it would just roll over and sink, etc.
Originally by: Awesome Possum Ban in place for using inappropriate language and evading the profanity filter.
When Will I be able to post again? 09/03/09
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VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2009.08.24 07:30:00 -
[105]
This is only a good idea if you plan to use it for piracy. I would gladly join the crew of such a shoddy sounding vessel.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.08.24 08:21:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 24/08/2009 08:21:27
Originally by: ADMR Hikari
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: Zeba Wouldn't a Drake make a better yacht? Catamaran stability and a huge flat deck to party on and have a huge mansion style central room. Rokh seems too unstable with the fence post hull.
Actually, how about a Ferox? Yours for free, courtesy of the US Navy (delivery not included).
You need to meet these requirements to get the ship though
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2006/09/fr091406.html
Don't forget that it's almost invisible to radar. If you've managed to convince them you can see to the requirements, they're going to have a hard time tracking it once you've left coastal waters. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Jaina Proudmoar
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Posted - 2009.08.24 08:29:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 24/08/2009 08:21:27
Originally by: ADMR Hikari
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: Zeba Wouldn't a Drake make a better yacht? Catamaran stability and a huge flat deck to party on and have a huge mansion style central room. Rokh seems too unstable with the fence post hull.
Actually, how about a Ferox? Yours for free, courtesy of the US Navy (delivery not included).
You need to meet these requirements to get the ship though
http://www.fas.org/sgp/news/2006/09/fr091406.html
Don't forget that it's almost invisible to radar. If you've managed to convince them you can see to the requirements, they're going to have a hard time tracking it once you've left coastal waters.
Just fit a tracking disruptor on it.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.08.24 08:31:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 24/08/2009 08:32:58 Old ship+body kit saves a ton.
Not an engineering feat, but same result.
That being said; cool idea and best of luck with it
I planned on arriving at fanfest in a viking style boat modified to look like an abaddon once, complete with plenty of different colored flashlights and styrofoam drones.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
fuxinos
Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2009.08.24 09:39:00 -
[109]
Edited by: fuxinos on 24/08/2009 09:39:20 I want a RL Griffin.
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eliminator2
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.24 09:43:00 -
[110]
it sounds crazy awsome id love to see it finnished
allso you gunna fit some batlleship guns onit (the guns from seaships not the spaceship ones) but have them where they hybird guns would be ingame :D so you can shoot pple you hate lol j/k :D but yea defence :D ----------------------------------------------- i met Eliminator1..... i ate it and spat it out now hes my minion :)
i kill miners and missioners people say, i call them target practise |
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devoted2
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Posted - 2009.08.24 12:06:00 -
[111]
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2007/04/stealth_ship_lo/
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ADMR Hikari
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Posted - 2009.08.24 16:18:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Washell Olivaw Absolutely not a boat expert but wouldn't fiberglass/wood for the top structure fix the top heavy problem and be cheaper and easier to construct?
I also recommend contacting shipyards how much manhour they put into a 60m ship, triple it because you're learning on the job, triple it again because you're working solo and triple it a third time for good measure. Divide by your estimated yearly time spend on it and see if it's still within a human lifespan. Assume a 20 year period with little work because the family is nagging for time or said family has divorced you and all money is heading towards alimony and child support.
I'm 24, not married and don't plan to get married so that solves that problem.
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ADMR Hikari
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Posted - 2009.08.24 16:19:00 -
[113]
Originally by: F'nog
Originally by: Kolatha I personally think a Drake would probably translate better to an irl yacht. It would make for a great looking cat.
The US actually has a stealth warship prototype similar to a Drake. It was sort of portrayed in "The World Is Enough" or whatever the second Bond film with Pierce Bronsan was. The one with Michelle Yeoh.
It's called the "Sea Shadow"
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ADMR Hikari
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Posted - 2009.08.24 16:31:00 -
[114]
Edited by: ADMR Hikari on 24/08/2009 16:35:50
Originally by: Sera Ryskin Edited by: Sera Ryskin on 24/08/2009 06:32:14
Originally by: ADMR Hikari Seriously though, I don't see how it's such a "stupid" idea. Really give me some proof why it would be so horrible? while taking in everything from all the previous posts, actually read it. I'm guessing at least 70% of the people on the forums just skim posts hence why I have had to restate things various times.
Fine, you want reasons?
1) You are pricing your absurd idea at the cost of the raw materials, and ignoring the staggering labor costs involved. Forget your "a few friends to help", at that size you're going to have to hire a hell of a lot of professional labor, pay for drydock space, etc.
2) You are attempting to build a 60m ship without specialized ship-building facilities (hint: how exactly are you going to turn the raw materials into the parts you need?). And if you think you can just do it in your back yard, you might want to look up what happens when you fail to properly heat-treat steel. And good luck doing it right for a 60m hull frame without the specialized equipment.
3) You are attempting to build a 60m ship without significant engineering experience. Just what exactly do you plan to do when your ship snaps in half in the middle of the ocean because you didn't get the math right? Pray that by some miracle there's a rescue ship in range to save you before you drown and/or freeze to death?
4) You are attempting to power your ship with a jet engine. Not only will you probably break it (likely in some very dramatic and lethal way, as something fails under massive stress cycles at thousands of RPM, and I really doubt you have the specialized tools to check for material flaws or the engineering knowledge to design it right in the first place), but putting that much raw power on a shape as inefficient as a Rokh is pretty ****ing stupid even if you somehow did it successfully. All you will succeed in doing is burning insane amounts of fuel.
5) You think that a 14" "prototype" is anything even remotely resembling a sane first step. Hint: you start with computer models and vast amounts of design work (hope you like math!), then small-scale test models (hint: think 1-2" long) to verify your computer models, THEN you might think about something as big as 14".
Doing it your way, if you are very, very lucky you will spend millions of dollars on this project, produce something that is ugly as hell, and it will sink the moment you try to put in the water, therefore preventing any innocent people from trusting your creation and getting killed when it inevitably fails.
For 1. Yes I know exactly how much it's going to cost, probably in excess of a few million.
For 2. I work in a machine shop so I have all the required equipment.
For 3. CEC Officer google it? hello I've stated that at least 3-4 times in this thread.
For 4. Have you ever been in the military? do you even know that almost all ships in the size range from FF to DD on into CL all use gas turbine engines? and the fuel use isn't so horrendous, a fully loaded 3,500 tonne missile destroyer has a max range of 6000+ miles. the design is basically a jet engine in a steel or aluminum housing mounted directly to the hull with bulkhead/supports to keep it in place and using drive shafts on the exhaust end of the engine connected to props to move the ship forward.
While I don't know how to fit them correctly as I have stated time and time again my family will help if I ask for it and as most of them are in the navy a lot of them deal with aircraft every day.
For 5. You obviously didn't read anything past the the first few sentences in my first post. I mentioned I have already made 3D models on my comp and used simulation software. so the next step is making a scale model and going to a test facility to see how it works.
Also why are you so serious about this? it's not your money so why are you getting so flustered?
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Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2009.08.24 16:31:00 -
[115]
Originally by: ADMR Hikari
There is also a more common method used which some people probably don't know about and is very cost effective is attaching magnesium strips to the underside of the vessel. An electric current is generated, with the magnesium and iron acting as electrodes and seawater acting as the electrolyte, or using a battery system connected to the hull provides a small current but enough to stop corrosion.
welded many a magnesium slab to a work boats hull. still won't stop the steel from being eaten by the aluminum any place the two are in contact.
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ADMR Hikari
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Posted - 2009.08.24 16:42:00 -
[116]
Edited by: ADMR Hikari on 24/08/2009 16:43:37
Originally by: Ehranavaar
Originally by: ADMR Hikari
There is also a more common method used which some people probably don't know about and is very cost effective is attaching magnesium strips to the underside of the vessel. An electric current is generated, with the magnesium and iron acting as electrodes and seawater acting as the electrolyte, or using a battery system connected to the hull provides a small current but enough to stop corrosion.
welded many a magnesium slab to a work boats hull. still won't stop the steel from being eaten by the aluminum any place the two are in contact.
Yea I know, I asked my uncle about it, he said to use a rubber like layer between the two, just thick enough so they wont conduct directly with each other but thin enough to work with. He's used it on his schooner in the past, he plated the bottom of his hull with steel b/c where he lives there are reefs and the water is kinda murky so it helps with the strength of the hull.
Think how they armored battleships in the past, I can almost guarantee they didn't use aluminum on the entire hull but it had some areas where they used it. Although I really don't have to use aluminum for any of it, I could cut the cost by a huge amount if I used just steel but aluminum is much lighter and easier to work with even though it cost's almost 6x more than steel per tonne.
I'm not sure what the layered stuff is made of though or how to securely fasten the steel to the aluminum hull without direct contact, I will have to ask about it and come back with more info on it.
If anyone has any idea's feel free to post them please.
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ADMR Hikari
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Posted - 2009.08.24 16:45:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Kyreax Well, I live right next to the AMARC DRMO in Tucson. I love all the scrap they have lying around for sale!
However - you might want to consider an already floating hull to build you rokh top onto.
You know, a drydocked decrepit old piece that someone will probably give you so they don't have to pay storage fees anymore. Then, presto, no engineering to guess out, just build the top over the waterline to look like a Rokh.
There ya go. Cheap, floats, actually stable and has real engines to propel it. The Turbines could be for that extra "oomph" and for show.
I like your plan. Most of our best layman-engineered products came from dreamers like you that weren't afraid to think waaaaay outside the box.
Yea I figured getting a pre-built hull would be best for this project, it saves on costs and labor by a huge pile and if it already has a diesel-electric engine in it then all the better.
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ADMR Hikari
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Posted - 2009.08.24 16:47:00 -
[118]
For the test phase I will probably make the prototype into an RC unit and put some small turbofan engines in it, they are pretty cheap to get. ya know the ones for RC planes.
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Enraku Reynolt
Minmatar Mid Knights Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.08.24 16:51:00 -
[119]
First
Your got too much free cash
Second, you ever consider making it a sub rather than a boat?
You could make back some of the costs in taking tourists if you near a popular wreck or natural site ------------------------------------------------ Do not let the world change you. Change the world
Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the same |
ADMR Hikari
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Posted - 2009.08.24 17:02:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Enraku Reynolt First
Your got too much free cash
Second, you ever consider making it a sub rather than a boat?
You could make back some of the costs in taking tourists if you near a popular wreck or natural site
If it were to be a sub a Hurricane, Geddon or Hyperion would probably work better or a Jovian Eidolon
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